FIX THE WEREWOLF!

TheBull

Transforming and chasing down a pack of AD or EP with the zerg in Cyrodiil is one of the most fun experiences I've had in a mmorpg. It's just so dang impractical.

I can't even play with my guild for fear of losing 1k ultimate. I have to go go go. No time to strategize. I have to choose between constant ultimate chasing to pop WW 4-5 times that night or running with the guild. That sucks.

I'm not even going to get into the issues with CC and such..

Iduyenn

Main Problems:
- Even with the ultimate-cost-reduce the Werewolf-ultimate is very expensive and the time in wolf shape to short. There aren`t any serious possibilities to extend the time in wolfshape.
- Many bugs
- There are no (high-lvl) itemsets who support the wolf in any good way. Itemsets can be a very good possibility to strengthen the wolf and not making it overpowered. It can also mean, that people wont be very strong in non-werewolfform. One reason to this is the next point.
- People start to take the Wolf only for the passiv (ultimate gain). The tendencies will be to nerf this thing to the ground. (Forgive me my pessimism).
Meta-gamer will go further, but the wolf will stay more damaged than ever.
- The Wolf in his beastform has only 2 active abilities and no ultimate. I think I don’t have to say much more to this matter. (I will add some ideas).
- The Wolf is not a “sneeky” class. But sneeking is a very important aspect of the game (and pvp). So there should be some balance in it. Either you increase detection radius for enemys significantly or you make the wolf fast enough for escaping hairy situations.

I add some points...

- Due to the fact, that the ultimate system is sometimes buggy (If you change a map or do not cast a spell from time to time you loose everything), the wolfform is even harder to get with.
And if you want to play in the lowlvl area you cant do that with ww, because you don`t gain ultimate.

- Movement and gapclosing; Besides the "sneeking" problem, you mentioned a very important aspect:
No ranged fight. As a ww you can`t just switch bars and shoot from the distance. But the mechanics in PVE (and PVP) are clear: You need both.
So to be somewhat competitiv the wolf needs some survibility, movement and cc breaks. In the time, the wolf is in CC or has to move/stay out of mele, he does zero damage and no support.

Are there more points to it?

(New Idea for an activ abbility:

Hiding

Eejit1331

I'm starting to lose faith that Zenimax will make the werewolf competitive in a timely manner. I heard that if I cure myself and go back that I have to re level the tree. I have a level ten berserker IV and would hate to restart all over once the werewolf is inline with the vamps, whenever that may be. Has any heard that the skill set reset if we cure it and get it back at a later date?

Eivar

Eejit1331 wrote: »

I'm starting to lose faith that Zenimax will make the werewolf competitive in a timely manner. I heard that if I cure myself and go back that I have to re level the tree. I have a level ten berserker IV and would hate to restart all over once the werewolf is inline with the vamps, whenever that may be. Has any heard that the skill set reset if we cure it and get it back at a later date?

thats not true about getting cured, if you get cured and pick it up again later you'll still be rank 10, though i don't think it refunds your skill points.

Iduyenn

An other Problem:

In the future, there will come more poison to this game. (Dark Brotherhood, poisoned weapons...).

Xupacabra

I wish werewolves make special damage to vampires, would be great at Cyrodiil

Shayu

Iduyenn wrote: »

An other Problem:

In the future, there will come more poison to this game. (Dark Brotherhood, poisoned weapons...).

Yep, better start preparing those poison resist glyphs.

Oronell

Oronell wrote: »

Here's another thought that can be combined with previous suggestions.

How about a "Wolf Hide" passive that increases damage mitigation while in werewolf form. This could be further morphed into "Iron Hide" for those who want a reduction to physical damage or "Sleek Hide" for those who want a chanced immunity to stun/snares.

Then combine the "Wolf Hide" passive with the following changes to fur color:

• Pack leaders who choose the "Iron Hide" morph move from White to Silver (solid silver at full morph).
• Pack Leaders who choose "Sleek Hide" move from White to Brown.
• Beserkers who choose the "Iron Hide" morph move to Black with a Bluish Tint
• Beserkers who choose the "Sleek hide" morph move to Black with Reddish Tint

Still make other Hide colors available via achievements, quest rewards and the store. I had suggested Gold as a color and in another thread someone suggested this could be tied to an achievement (an immense number of PvP kills while in Werewolf form).

Came up with a name for the PvP achievement (for Golden Hide Reward). "The Apex Predator Achievement". Is this already in use?

Shayu

Oronell wrote: »

Oronell wrote: »

Here's another thought that can be combined with previous suggestions.

How about a "Wolf Hide" passive that increases damage mitigation while in werewolf form. This could be further morphed into "Iron Hide" for those who want a reduction to physical damage or "Sleek Hide" for those who want a chanced immunity to stun/snares.

Then combine the "Wolf Hide" passive with the following changes to fur color:

• Pack leaders who choose the "Iron Hide" morph move from White to Silver (solid silver at full morph).
• Pack Leaders who choose "Sleek Hide" move from White to Brown.
• Beserkers who choose the "Iron Hide" morph move to Black with a Bluish Tint
• Beserkers who choose the "Sleek hide" morph move to Black with Reddish Tint

Still make other Hide colors available via achievements, quest rewards and the store. I had suggested Gold as a color and in another thread someone suggested this could be tied to an achievement (an immense number of PvP kills while in Werewolf form).

Came up with a name for the PvP achievement (for Golden Hide Reward). "The Apex Predator Achievement". Is this already in use?

Passives can't usually be morphed. Also I'd prefer if we could all select our werewolf appearance based on choice. I want to be a Berserker but I'm a bit jealous of the pack leaders white fur.

Shayu

I thought of an active skill for werewolves so I suppose I'll drop in my two cents. Hope you're listening Zenimax . This ability would be a unique CC break for werewolves and would be pretty expensive.

Rage- With a loud roar, the player flings his large werewolf arms outwards, breaking CC, dealing low damage to, and knocking back 6 meters (or at least to the minimum distance of the pounce skill), any enemies in front of him.

• Feral Rage- With a loud roar, the player flings his large werewolf arms outwards, breaking CC, dealing low damage to, and knocking back 6 meters, any enemies in front of him. For the next 3.0 - 4.5 seconds (Depending on what rank I-IV) the speed of all attacks in werewolf form are increased by 50%
• Raging Beast- With a loud roar, the player flings his large werewolf arms outwards, breaking CC, dealing moderate damage to, and knocking back 6 meters, any enemies in front of him. Also adds 3 additional second to the werewolf timer. (Damage of the attack scales with ranks I-IV)

Oronell

Shayu wrote: »

Passives can't usually be morphed. Also I'd prefer if we could all select our werewolf appearance based on choice. I want to be a Berserker but I'm a bit jealous of the pack leaders white fur.

The morph could be for passives tied to the Ultimate. Just a further morph of Berserker or Pack Leader.

Hide/fur coloration tied to morph choice provides a cosmetic upside to Werewolf players in addition to a "tell all" to opponents (balance aspect). The discerning Werewolf hunter would know that stuns/snares are less likely to work against a Brown or Reddish-Black werewolf while White/Silver and Bluish-Black werewolves require armor piercing/ignore abilities.

The idea is that if a player wants to further customize and not "suffer" from the drawback of a tell all, it would be fair to have a cost attached to it. So variations of hide/fur colors could be sold through the online store. For example, I chose Berserker but I would love to have an all black werewolf with a single white stripe running down its spine. I would definitely "buy that for a dollar" or ten...or twenty. Lol.

Here's my dream hide....on a friggin cat. Lol.
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_1OgxsIzqz3c/TARIeGkrCkI/AAAAAAAAAhg/I049mY3ysVw/s1600/38_009.JPG

...and here's what the "Sleek Hide" color could look like on a Berserker..again on a friggin cat....
http://cdn.thecatsite.com/e/e7/500x700px-LL-e7953215_112612-030.jpeg

Oronell

Best pics I can find of the other hide color variations.

Bluish-black ("Iron hide" Beserker)
https://p.gr-assets.com/540x540/fit/hostedimages/1379794495/593282.jpg

Silver-white ("Iron hide" Pack Leader)
http://th04.deviantart.net/fs71/PRE/f/2011/322/c/9/white_werewolf_texture_by_crowhitewolf-d4gj2vr.png

Brown-white ("Sleek hide" Pack Leader) *Not kind of image I wanted but the only thing close to what I'm suggesting*
http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t143/xXVampireXLordessXx/Hybrid RP characters/Anthro characters/l_652749bbf65391ebf2e830641707ad50.jpg

...and the "Apex Predator"
http://th00.deviantart.net/fs50/200H/i/2009/325/3/f/Golden_Werewolf_by_JigokuTenshi.jpg

Remember this....http://www.retrovicio.org/ficheros/revision_juego/3800/5Boss.png

PurpleFox

Oronell wrote: »

Best pics I can find of the other hide color variations.

Bluish-black ("Iron hide" Beserker)
https://p.gr-assets.com/540x540/fit/hostedimages/1379794495/593282.jpg

Silver-white ("Iron hide" Pack Leader)
http://th04.deviantart.net/fs71/PRE/f/2011/322/c/9/white_werewolf_texture_by_crowhitewolf-d4gj2vr.png

Brown-white ("Sleek hide" Pack Leader) *Not kind of image I wanted but the only thing close to what I'm suggesting*
http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t143/xXVampireXLordessXx/Hybrid RP characters/Anthro characters/l_652749bbf65391ebf2e830641707ad50.jpg

...and the "Apex Predator"
http://th00.deviantart.net/fs50/200H/i/2009/325/3/f/Golden_Werewolf_by_JigokuTenshi.jpg

Remember this....http://www.retrovicio.org/ficheros/revision_juego/3800/5Boss.png

Good news is that they are at least listening...next update pack leader will be fixed!!!

Oronell

"PurpleFox wrote: »

Good news is that they are at least listening...next update pack leader will be fixed!!!

That's great news!

Question: Do pack leader's have a passive allowing them to run/sprint faster than Berserkers? If they don't, they should!

Chrlynsch

Pack leader: 750 ulti
When activated allows all werewolves within 15m transformation synergy (instant free transformation), Pack leader's Stamina and transform time and SIZE is increased by 5% for each werewolf that transforms with them up to 50% (Remember that armor, health, and attack damage increases with stamina). When pack leader's time expires or if pack leader is killed while transformed the rest of the pack reverts to human form. Pack will be stunned for 5s if leader is killed.

Only one pack leader is allowed per synergy transformation, any other wolves that have taken pack leader morph will only transform into a regular werewolf for duration of the transformation.

This would make for more frequent transformations when running with fellow werewolves, also a strong pack dynamic. The larger your pack, the more powerful the pack leader and the longer the pack can be up.

Brittany_Joy

Prothwata wrote: »

Pack leader: 750 ulti
When activated allows all werewolves within 15m transformation synergy (instant free transformation), Pack leader's Stamina and transform time and SIZE is increased by 5% for each werewolf that transforms with them up to 50% (Remember that armor, health, and attack damage increases with stamina). When pack leader's time expires or if pack leader is killed while transformed the rest of the pack reverts to human form. Pack will be stunned for 5s if leader is killed.

Only one pack leader is allowed per synergy transformation, any other wolves that have taken pack leader morph will only transform into a regular werewolf for duration of the transformation.

This would make for more frequent transformations when running with fellow werewolves, also a strong pack dynamic. The larger your pack, the more powerful the pack leader and the longer the pack can be up.

Seriously, what is up with the penalizing suggestions. I highly doubt new werewolf changes that penalize the player for being slightly stronger or more fun is going to be popular. We need to suggest convenience changes such as having a shapeshift-at-will ability, instant transformation, some defenses to survive bursts.

Oronell

Prothwata wrote: »

Pack leader: 750 ulti
When activated allows all werewolves within 15m transformation synergy (instant free transformation), Pack leader's Stamina and transform time and SIZE is increased by 5% for each werewolf that transforms with them up to 50% (Remember that armor, health, and attack damage increases with stamina). When pack leader's time expires or if pack leader is killed while transformed the rest of the pack reverts to human form. Pack will be stunned for 5s if leader is killed.

Love the synergy aspect but with that kind of buff you would basically be assuming the Berserker's DPS role. In the end everyone will choose the Pack Leader morph, I know I would. Lol.

Chrlynsch

Brittany_Joy wrote: »

Seriously, what is up with the penalizing suggestions. I highly doubt new werewolf changes that penalize the player for being slightly stronger or more fun is going to be popular. We need to suggest convenience changes such as having a shapeshift-at-will ability, instant transformation, some defenses to survive bursts.

I am thinking on both sides, those who are werewolves and those who fight them. When WW gets its rolls and cc breaks it will be a very very deadly force to be reckoned with. "The Oh S***" moment to the "Kill the BIG one" would make for some memorable moments in PvP. Maybe cut out the reverting when pack leader is killed, but there still needs to be some sort of balance risk/reward system when giving into your most beastly rage.

Oronell wrote: »

the synergy aspect but with that kind of buff you would basically be assuming the Berserker's DPS role. In the end everyone will choose the Pack Leader morph, I know I would. Lol.

Most people who want to play wolves correctly are already hitting the cap on stamina so this 50% will already be hitting some devastating diminishing returns, with only one pack leader allowed at a time and it becoming the target of the enemies focus it will need to be more powerful (maybe just more health and armor). Berserker still needs to show vastly more dps then its pack leader.

PurpleFox

...breakdance...

Brittany_Joy

Prothwata wrote: »

Brittany_Joy wrote: »

Seriously, what is up with the penalizing suggestions. I highly doubt new werewolf changes that penalize the player for being slightly stronger or more fun is going to be popular. We need to suggest convenience changes such as having a shapeshift-at-will ability, instant transformation, some defenses to survive bursts.

I am thinking on both sides, those who are werewolves and those who fight them. When WW gets its rolls and cc breaks it will be a very very deadly force to be reckoned with. "The Oh S***" moment to the "Kill the BIG one" would make for some memorable moments in PvP. Maybe cut out the reverting when pack leader is killed, but there still needs to be some sort of balance risk/reward system when giving into your most beastly rage.

Oronell wrote: »

the synergy aspect but with that kind of buff you would basically be assuming the Berserker's DPS role. In the end everyone will choose the Pack Leader morph, I know I would. Lol.

Most people who want to play wolves correctly are already hitting the cap on stamina so this 50% will already be hitting some devastating diminishing returns, with only one pack leader allowed at a time and it becoming the target of the enemies focus it will need to be more powerful (maybe just more health and armor). Berserker still needs to show vastly more dps then its pack leader.

But completely penalizing the werewolves is not fun and is one of the main reasons why werewolves are so weak. All the penalties just for having fun is what is making people cancel their subscriptions. We need convenience changes and fun changes. We do not need changes that penalize players and make it harder for them to be who they want to be.

ZoS is capable of thinking and creating viable skill lines but it seems like they slack off on some, like the nightblade and werewolf. Which is why we need to let ZoS know we need changes that make the gameplay fun and responsive.

The transformation looks cool but that could have just been used for the first transformation while the rest are instant transformations so people don't die while transforming into a werewolf. The werewolf skill line should be revamped to actually allow players to be werewolves unlike it does now which makes you anything but a werewolf with the high cost and low werewolf timer. Why does being a werewolf have to be so restrictive in the first place. The werewolf transformation should be a shapeshift-at-will and stay in form as long as you want because it is more convenient and fun to play. The werewolf skill line is too restrictive and penalizes players just for wanting to be a werewolf, this needs to change.

PurpleFox

Brittany_Joy wrote: »

Prothwata wrote: »

Brittany_Joy wrote: »

Seriously, what is up with the penalizing suggestions. I highly doubt new werewolf changes that penalize the player for being slightly stronger
r or more fun is going to be popular. We need to suggest convenience changes such as having a shapeshift-at-will ability, instant transformation, some defenses to survive bursts.

I am thinking on both sides, those who are werewolves and those who fight them. When WW gets its rolls and cc breaks it will be a very very deadly force to be reckoned with. "The Oh S***" moment to the "Kill the BIG one" would make for some memorable moments in PvP. Maybe cut out the reverting when pack leader is killed, but there still needs to be some sort of balance risk/reward system when giving into your most beastly rage.

Oronell wrote: »

the synergy aspect but with that kind of buff you would basically be assuming the Berserker's DPS role. In the end everyone will choose the Pack Leader morph, I know I would. Lol.

Most people who want to play wolves correctly are already hitting the cap on stamina so this 50% will already be hitting some devastating diminishing returns, with only one pack leader allowed at a time and it becoming the target of the enemies focus it will need to be more powerful (maybe just more health and armor). Berserker still needs to show vastly more dps then its pack leader.

But completely penalizing the werewolves is not fun and is one of the main reasons why werewolves are so weak. All the penalties just for having fun is what is making people cancel their subscriptions. We need convenience changes and fun changes. We do not need changes that penalize players and make it harder for them to be who they want to be.

ZoS is capable of thinking and creating viable skill lines but it seems like they slack off on some, like the nightblade and werewolf. Which is why we need to let ZoS know we need changes that make the gameplay fun and responsive.

The transformation looks cool but that could have just been used for the first transformation while the rest are instant transformations so people don't die while transforming into a werewolf. The werewolf skill line should be revamped to actually allow players to be werewolves unlike it does now which makes you anything but a werewolf with the high cost and low werewolf timer. Why does being a werewolf have to be so restrictive in the first place. The werewolf transformation should be a shapeshift-at-will and stay in form as long as you want because it is more convenient and fun to play. The werewolf skill line is too restrictive and penalizes players just for wanting to be a werewolf, this needs to change.

Just realized that you were the 200th comment for this thread, so therefore I stole this cake for you...uh i mean "Borrowed"....totally didn't go berserk and steal this from party, kill everyone then leave or anything...that would be ridiculous.

ScardyFox

Still lots of instances were I transform but am still human on my screen.

Eejit1331

Yeah, I still lose my ultimate and not liking the little love they gave us on this update. I will never get back the opportunity cost I paid ranking my wolf all the way up. If they are going to keep it busted, give a free respec, take away the poison penalty in human for or something. But right now, I see very little upside other than I'm a huge werewolf fan. What is the eta for additional fixes? I'm so frustrated with it but I don't want to give up but it is a bad investment in its current condition. Just venting ..lol..

Iduyenn

Ceterum censeo lupus esse mutandum.

Sylinias

Iduyenn wrote: »

Ceterum censeo lupus esse mutandum.

"TRANSLATOR, POST!"

WhitePawPrints

Iduyenn wrote: »

Ceterum censeo lupus esse mutandum.

@Sylinias "But I think the wolf has to be changed." Google Translate.

ScardyFox wrote: »

Still lots of instances were I transform but am still human on my screen.

My Pack Leader has worked fine since the patch. I don't use it a lot since it doesn't help much in VR zones but I've used it about a dozen times now without any hiccups.

xXOvercastKidXx

i really like the idea of the skin colors; it would encourage more individuality among players, and could also be like a pack thing. Maybe each fur color would add a different perk/buff that would benefit the werewolf in both human and wolf form.
Plus, the werewolf definitely needs some more abilities, like maybe the bite that npcs have. And some more emotes wouldn't hurt

hope the werewolf gets some more updates soon. will make it much more fun to play!

Iduyenn

Yea, the colors are a fine idea.. but i would love to have some more time in WW too... especially to see the colors.

Sylinias

I think the whole color thing is nice but not wholly germane to the root issue of how broken the class is.

Oronell

I have a DREAM that one day werewolves of all colors will RUN on all fours throughout Cyrodil, HOWLING at the moon while RIPPING apart their enemies...yes...I have a dream...I have a dream. - Martin Lupinus Wolf-King