We need a Auction house

kemp.garretub17_ESO1

For those saying an auction house would unbalance the economy its actually quite the opposite auction houses set expectations on gear prices and etc allowing the devs to influence these prices more precisely vai changing the spawn rates/rarity/difficulty of the items necessary to craft or retrieve the item sold. So if for example Rawhide was being used as a way to grind gold unfairly or unfavorably for the game then the devs can do one of two things change the spawn rates (in this case lower it) of rawhide or insert a price cap.


The only other thing id be up for would be a well done player owned stores system. If zenimax could do something like this right then id be up for it but only if its done right

To add to my previous point auction houses would actually give people something to spend cash on as of now most players remain self sufficient discouraging trade rather than encouraging it

soalrism

global ah and you have the same broken prices like in gw2: 80% of items are totaly underpriced, and 20% are totaley overpriced.

Pahebe

Please:

*Auction House (at least zone based to kind of put level range on items there) with SEARCH FUNCTION or tabs that do really filter stuff, e.g. actuall materials from junk like crawlers, trait stones from ingots/food, etc.
*Less gold for sending mails/posting auction - please, this ruins economy as well, % based prices are insane.
*More GMs online to prevent gold sellers/spammers.

Draxinusom

I find it truly amazing how fast people forget global region auction house debacles like in Diablo3 where it basically invalidated the entire core gameplay and was finally removed last month.

An auction house in ESO would not be like an auction house in WoW. WoW's auction houses have a very limited availability (realm) but the one in D3 had the whole region, just as it would be in ESO.

Nothing you ever found in D3 was worth much, because at any time, something way better was always available. It was also evident to every prospective buyer because it actually had a relatively good search functionality. And whenever you finally got a set item or legendary drop, which for you as a single player was a very rare moment, well in the AH there were 1000 others of the same type because in the whole region, a single-player rare event isn't actually that rare globally. So the market is flooded, even you rare stuff cannot be sold for an appropriate price (relative to your rarity/effort to get it) because globally it's not rare.

Then the constant undercutting required to actually get your stuff sold.

No thanks.

Would it be more convenient? Absolutely. It would also devalue pretty much everything instantly. Value is rarity. If you have easy access to everything, it has no value (hint: that's why epic stuff in WoW has long ceased to be epic because it's being thrown at you from all sides. Rarity defines value.)

Glissando

AH would ruin this game's economy and would also encourage botters even more.

i say NO to AH!

Jadeviper1974

Opioid wrote: »

@Ragnar_Lodbrok That's a crap solution to the problem. Why should I go out of my way wasting my time joining 5 trade guilds to try and buy or sell items? Those are all guild slots I should be using for tackling PvE or PvP content, or just to group up with friends.

So you're basically saying that if I want to best chance at having access to the largest number of people in order to maximize availability of materials and my capability to sell to the largest number of buyers, I have to sacrifice my ability to be in an organized guild for other game activities? Not only that, but instead of having one simple interface that I can use to access these markets, I also have to waste my time dealing with the clunky guild store interface and inability to search for items in order to do a quick price comparison so I can decide whether something is being sold for a fair market value or not?

The fact remains that this game has terrible economic mechanics at the moment and it's something that really needs to be addressed. Fragmented guild stores with highly limited potential customers and spamming on zone chat is NOT an economy.

No one says that you have to do anything, you can ignore the current in game system to sell stuff and just vendor everything. I personally think the system is well thought out and is the best defense from having gold spammers wreck the economy. It is also a realistic system and to me give the world more flavor.

There is my thoughts on the matter. Whether you agree or disagree, I really couldn't care less.

fiftypercentgrey

I can see why people want to try it withouth an auction house. It is different. There where games out there without such an auction house.
But, to be honest, it it is a good concept. The guild stores just dont work for me, even when the interface would be better than it is now and even with a search function. Usability is a must-have standard these days.

An auction house would need a search function, of course. I have seen other games in which the attempt to implement an auction house just went horribly wrong and was buggy forever.

So.. yes, please implement an auction house that is actually usable

Vraneon

I don't want a global auction house in this game and I also think it does not fit the game logic. The idea of having many small guild auction houses or trading guilds is a good way to handle the economy and I don't see a reason why those small guild auction houses should 'destroy' the economy in any way.
I played games who had auction houses and games who did not. I also played a game where they implemented one later and I have to say I enjoy games without an auction house much more. The players are more friendly and social and you also get a more RPG like feeling, because you are trading with a certain person.
While ah has its positive side, like the availability of items or the fast selling of things, I think in MMOs it gets misused to fast by guilds, gold sellers and other ppl who don't really play the game for instance ESO, but play the auction house game. Buying and selling buying and selling. Only to make profit, be rich and exploit others. In such games I get discouraged to gather any materials like ore, wood, etc. because it just pays more off for me to do some other stuff or some things for my character, where I get the highest gold income and buy things like iron ore or low lvl gear to deconstruct it for my leveling, which in turn makes me a grinding char and I don't like to grind the same stuff over and over again.

I really like the game how it is. I have to collect most stuff on my own, when I desperatly need some materials I can write in zone chat or go join a trading guild, sure someone will be found to have them, if not then theres probably a shortage of them and an auction house certainly wont solve this matter.
My personal opinion is, that people who think this game must have an auction house, seek some sort of massive profit or to exploit others or are too lazy to get items on their own, by talking/asking people or are just very impatient.

Therefore I don't really see a point in putting an auction house into this game. I think people who want a global and typical mmo auction house don't see the or know how rpg's like this one are played.
Just one example: You ever heard posts about morrowind, oblivion or skyrim:
'I don't get enough iron ingots' or 'I cant sell my armour properly'... probably not. Some items were hard to get some were easy to get and you also had to use skill points to unlock higher level crafting. As it is a mmo and there are a lot of other players some materials will be harder to get, but I honestly think an omnipresent auction house would pretty much ruin the feeling and gameplay for this game.

sevcik.miroslaveb17_ESO

I personaly do not need auction house. All I need is player shop. Like it was in Lineage. It had it's magic to go through market and check what are players selling. ESO even has this huge potential... When they can give us emote for sitting on a chair... Well what could hold them back to make small stand when player opens a shop? I would really love to see this. More interaction with players. More live in cities. No cuts for auction. I really wish it would be in game. One would consider creating even khajit just to make caravan! :-)

Brennan

Nox_Aeterna wrote: »

Catches_the_Sun wrote: »

lypheb16_ESO wrote: »

I think you can add an AH without damaging the social side of the game. I'm firmly against LFG tools because I think they harm the game - but I see an AH as positive and would love to see it added. Cheers!

I'd like to hear the logic behind this mentality. Whenever you use LFG & somebody joins your group, you are talking & playing with that person. That is social. AH is not.

We currently got an AH, the only problem is the AH size.

Right this moment , the most social aspect anyone needs to have access to it is saying yes to a guild invite.

I have 4 trading guilds , i joined AND muted them all.

They are my AH , it is a small pool of around 1500/1700 players , but i for sure dont talk to any of them.

The reason you don't see a social aspect to this economy is because you are choosing to not be social. Why don't you unmute those 4 guilds you're in and talk to the people in those guilds? Let them know what kind of mats or finished goods you're looking for. Talk to them about going to do a dungeon or organize a group to go raid a starter island for mats. Sounds to me like you're just joining guilds to sell/buy crap and not taking advantage of the social part of it.

Brennan

fiftypercentgrey wrote: »

I can see why people want to try it withouth an auction house. It is different. There where games out there without such an auction house.
But, to be honest, it it is a good concept. The guild stores just dont work for me, even when the interface would be better than it is now and even with a search function. Usability is a must-have standard these days.

An auction house would need a search function, of course. I have seen other games in which the attempt to implement an auction house just went horribly wrong and was buggy forever.

So.. yes, please implement an auction house that is actually usable

I bolded the important part of your quote. It's not about what works or doesn't work for you.

Yshaar

stop discussing: go here:
http://www.esoui.com/downloads/info200-GuildStoreSearch.html

DarkInvictus

No way.
AH is a bad idea, it's only gonna encourage the gold sellers more, increase amount of resource bots, drive pricing to crazy levels and create a false economy.
There is a guild store, use that. You can join up to 5 guilds so join a merchant guild.
Instead set up guild markets were guilds can sell wares outside of cities with purchased NPC's with a regulated market by the guild and not one person, this will push the profits back into that guild to be redistributed amongst the members.

Brennan

kemp.garretub17_ESO1 wrote: »

For those saying an auction house would unbalance the economy its actually quite the opposite auction houses set expectations on gear prices and etc allowing the devs to influence these prices more precisely vai changing the spawn rates/rarity/difficulty of the items necessary to craft or retrieve the item sold. So if for example Rawhide was being used as a way to grind gold unfairly or unfavorably for the game then the devs can do one of two things change the spawn rates (in this case lower it) of rawhide or insert a price cap.


The only other thing id be up for would be a well done player owned stores system. If zenimax could do something like this right then id be up for it but only if its done right

To add to my previous point auction houses would actually give people something to spend cash on as of now most players remain self sufficient discouraging trade rather than encouraging it

I want market influences from players not from the divine intervention of the developers. Let the developers work on more important things like:

1) Fixing the bug the deletes all the bank upgrades you've purchased and drops all the pre-order stuff back in your mailbox again.

2) Fixing the Ritual Spawn in Haven.

3) Fixing the "Duel the Hunter" bit in Southpoint.

4) Fixing the quest in Banishing Cells.

5) Fixing the issue where if you fail to kill General Endare, you have to abandon and restart the entire quest line.

Seriously, let the devs fix the stuff that is broken and not *** around with the drop rates of medium armor drops to manipulate the economy.

ziorhonb16_ESO

I have never seen an mmo with this sort of server structure and an auction house. Seems to me there would be a good reason for that.

Laura

I don't like change. I am scared please hold me. I don't want to interact with other players in an MMO.

jason.cristofarob14_ESO

The problem that Zenimax is having is that if you create a game wherein you can craft the best gear, gear rapidly devalues as time progresses. Eventually (sooner rather than later) everyone will have top-tier gear. While players feel that this is a panacea all of the marketing research indicates that the lack of gear progression leads to cancelled subs and less people playing because, for better or for worse, most players play for progression.

Look at what happened in GW2. Within a month all of the top end gear was available in the AH for relatively reasonable prices. You could gear out a fresh 80 in the best gear in the game for a relatively nominal fee.

Since I was into RvR I absolutely loved it and it kept me engaged because I could kit out a bunch of different alts. However complaints rapidly grew in the community about "lack of progression" and eventually Arenanet caved and introduced the ascended gear #$%^block, which basically replaced the previous system with an annoying time gating mechanism that required you to make GW2 your second job if you wanted to gear competitively.

Zenimax is trying to deal with this situation by putting deliberate artificial obstacles in the way of getting endgame gear to slow progression creep; notably removing AH's and severely limiting bank space. These two issues are directly linked and the cause of much frustration in the player base. It IS a way to deal with it I suppose but it is ill-conceived on so many levels I don't even know how this got into the final game:

1. Instead of a progression block that involves the "fun" aspect of playing the game (killing mobs, running dungeons) they have introduced a progression block that deals primarily with making players work around their pain in the ass system. I basically have a main and 7 equipment mules because I refuse to get rid of all of my mats I am acquiring leveling only to need them again if I decide to become a crafter. If it were any other game I would use an AH to sell of my excess material, but that is not practical here because guild stores sell to a far too limited community and I have better things to do than spam trade chat all day for all of my items. Making basic gameplay functions an annoying chore is a really, really bad idea.

2. Players will find a way to work around it. Hence the ubiquitous trade-chat. In a recent tweet Zenimax was promoting a 3rd party auction site. The staff member who did this should be reprimanded because other Zenimax staff are going to eventually have to deal with the headaches associated with scamming, gold-selling and other issues that these 3rd part sites are bound to promote. Eventually the community will coalesce around a 3rd party auction/crafting site that people will use to get their gear. This will ruin Zenimax's progression block while simultaneously pissing off the customer base who will bear the onus of creating, maintaining and using such a site, in a sub based game no less!

3. People will just quit. People threaten to quit on the boards all the time and I never believe them, honestly I won't quit for a bit because I like the game. But my friends who are relatively casual MMO players have already told me they are probably not going to sub after the first month. My wife looked at me yesterday and said: "Why are we playing a game where I have to spend 45 minutes every evening doing inventory management?" I didn't have a good answer for her.

4. Saying to an MMO player "Well you shouldn't hoard mats and think ahead to progression, you should just have fun and play the game..." profoundly misreads the player base and the type of player who plays MMOs/RPGs in general and elder scroll games in particular. FFS I collected and hoarded practically every craftable consumable and valuable in skyrim and secreted it away in my amazing house. That was half the fun of the game!

Zenimax will continue to have die-hard defenders, especially on the official boards. I appreciate that folks are so passionate about the game, but if you are actually interested in seeing TESO succeed long term, you need to understand that these issues need to be dealt with or relatively soon the player base will drop precipitously. And that will be VERY bad for the game.

Jeremy

Brennan wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

Brennan wrote: »

Opioid wrote: »

Ragnar_Lodbrok wrote: »

Well every AH in every other MMO becomes unuseable by those not buying gold very quickly. Why would any one want that. Id take the smaller market.

You really need to stop being hyperbolic and making broadly generalized statements based on your skewed opinions rather than fact.

Brennan wrote: »

One other thing - ESO does not have a global auction house. Deal with it.

One other thing - Not everyone agrees with you. Deal with it.

I'm okay with people not agreeing with me. What I am not okay with is people who do not agree with the developers and are trying to change a fundamental aspect of the game.

You can either change the way you're playing to fit in the existing fundamental mechanic OR you need to find a game that you will enjoy because it has an auction house.

The game is less than 2 weeks in and everyone is bitching and moaning about something they knew was a part of the game.

"Hey guys! This game is awesome! Let's change it!!"

But that is one of the purposes of a video game forum Brennan, to advocate for changes you would like to see.

If it annoys you so much, perhaps hanging out in the forums is not such a great idea - especially so in a thread that is about a change you don't agree with. Because you seem to take the discussion way too personal and I don't want to be responsible for a rise in your blood pressure

I appreciate your concern for my well being. I take the discussion personal because the OP and others want to change a game that I really enjoy. I am just fine with the OP and others advocating for changes. I am advocating for that status quo. If for no other reason than the game's current age. It's less than 2 weeks old Jeremy. Why can't you wait and see how things progress before advocating for such a massive and far reaching modification?

Because I don't see it as such a massive and far-reaching modification.

It's basically just the consolidation of the Guild Store function that is already in the game. Which is going to have to happen anyway if they are ever going to become useful on a wide scale.

And the reason I don't want to wait is this game's lack of an economy is having a profound and negative impact on my enjoyment of it. As I pointed out earlier, I am the type of player who likes to slowly advance my character while getting the most from my crafts so I can be fully optimized and effective as possible.

You can't do that right now, because the weak economy encourages people to hoard all of their rare materials until they reach level 50, which tilts the game toward the so-called endgame. And that's a real shame, because many of us came to this game to avoid that.

As I said earlier, it's almost making me just want to hold off on leveling my character until they fix this so I can enjoy it more.

Jeremy

Laura wrote: »

I don't like change. I am scared please hold me. I don't want to interact with other players in an MMO.

If trade spam and surfing through different guild stores in some desperate hope you will find what you are looking for at a reasonable price is how this game intends players to interact with one another then it's in big trouble.

Poenari

I bought the game knowing that there wasn't an auction house, figured I'd try it. I am still on the fence about the lack of an auction house, the game is still new and it could get better…but, I doubt it.

Right now I am playing this game, the game that I looked forward to more than any other, as a single player that will end when I hit a certain level or I get bored. I have played many, many MMOs (some for years) and in my opinion, this one isn't built for long term play. And believe me, as a ginormous fangirl, I am really sorry to say that.

All of those other MMOs that had auction houses had them because that is what works the best. It is flawed, but it is the best solution for the economy because it mirrors RL. If one had to join guilds in real life to buy or sell anything it would be ridiculous and no one would question the need for a store that anyone could walk into and buy from. That would be like expecting every store to be a SAMs club or Costco - there are benefits to belonging to those stores but, they are not the only stores that buy and sell.

Evanis

Brennan wrote: »

If they were putting their stuff on the guild stores instead of hoarding it indefinitely, there would be more variety in the items available.

Pay 25% in fees to list mats in a guild store? This is why people are hoarding. You are better off spamming zone chat or vending your excess. The guild store concept is not working for a majority of players. I appreciate that ZOS wanted to try something different, but there are not enough *active* members in these trade guilds to make a viable economy. Just because the guild cap is set at 500, this does not mean that there are actually 500 actively trading members.

Jeremy

Evanis wrote: »

Brennan wrote: »

If they were putting their stuff on the guild stores instead of hoarding it indefinitely, there would be more variety in the items available.

Pay 25% in fees to list mats in a guild store? This is why people are hoarding. You are better off spamming zone chat or vending your excess. The guild store concept is not working for a majority of players. I appreciate that ZOS wanted to try something different, but there are not enough *active* members in these trade guilds to make a viable economy. Just because the guild cap is set at 500, this does not mean that there are actually 500 actively trading members.

One of my current trading guilds nearly has 500 members. And the store still sucks. So it seems even if they are at max capacity, it matters little.

The system just doesn't work. I too appreciate they tried something different. Unfortunately though not all experiments work out. So I hope they recognize it and fix it. And soon.

Brennan

Repeating this because it bears repeating:

You want an auction house because every other MMO has an auction house. This is not every other MMO - it does not have an auction house. Either play this game, that DOES NOT have an auction house or play one of the hundreds of others that do.

Think the AH in GW2 was amazing? You do know that this game is not GW2 right?

Think the AH in WoW neutered gold farmers? You do know that this game is not WoW right?

It's ESO. The devs have a vision. It's different from the other MMOs. Not better or worse - just different. The problem is that you don't want different you want GW2 or WoW. Then go play GW2 or WoW or any of the other hundreds of MMOs that have an Auction House, that have a larger inventory, that have crafting that isn't "broken". Hell if nothing else, play a game that does not prompt you to come to the forums to lobby for changes to a game less than 2 weeks after it's release.

I am done with this discussion. I am going to play the game that I love playing rather than continue to defend said game from the people that love it so much they want to change it to GW2 or WoW.

Jeremy

Brennan wrote: »

Repeating this because it bears repeating:

You want an auction house because every other MMO has an auction house.

That's not true though Brennan.

We want an open auction house because it is effective and it works. The fact other MMORPGs have it is irrelevant really. We just point them out as examples. You don't see me asking for daily quest grinds like nearly all other MMORPGs have do you?

The bottom line is larger and freer markets simply out-perform smaller closed ones. And there is no good reason to purposely gimp this game's economy when it could be so much better.

LadyChaos

it is harder for gold sellers and botters to get into every guild hall ie guild stores lower their effect on ww economy, they can only effect whatever guild economy they are part of, and guilds can chose to allow them to stay or not.

The game is new a lot of people are breaking down materials trying to level every crafter rather than sell raws, they will go up in sales as people level more. If your guilds are out of stock its because people are buying low and selling high in other guilds. My raws sell pretty soon as I put them on most any market. The better trade guilds will become apparent and draw more competitive traders to them over time.

WW Ah makes all items slowly drop in value to the bare minimum profit and in lots of cases because you are allowed to sell for under profit become flooded to underproffit price (because of farmers). It will fluctuate and normalize and unbalance and re-normalize but a few people have far more control over the market flux in ww market than they do in GH stores.

Catches_the_Sun

jason.cristofarob14_ESO wrote: »

The problem that Zenimax is having is that if you create a game wherein you can craft the best gear, gear rapidly devalues as time progresses. Eventually (sooner rather than later) everyone will have top-tier gear. While players feel that this is a panacea all of the marketing research indicates that the lack of gear progression leads to cancelled subs and less people playing because, for better or for worse, most players play for progression.

How much of an impact do you think gear progression played in the success of Dark Age of Camelot? Everybody capped to level 50 & had their build complete with gear. It is the RvR endgame that kept me & many others playing that game MUCH longer than any other MMO. MMOs need a reason to play other than trying to find the best gear. Why? Because what happens when you get it? Wait for the next expansion to make it obsolete...WoW-style? Horizontal progression & great RvR is what makes a game worth playing long-term.

ziorhonb16_ESO

LadyChaos wrote: »

WW Ah makes all items slowly drop in value to the bare minimum profit and in lots of cases because you are allowed to sell for under profit become flooded to underproffit price (because of farmers). It will fluctuate and normalize and unbalance and re-normalize but a few people have far more control over the market flux in ww market than they do in GH stores.

And there is folks is the point. If the market is too large the most competitive offer will be from the vendor. With only two servers that degradation could happen pretty fast. But hey it would be convenient and that is what counts right?

Bramir

I love how this thread is based on the complaints of someone who apparently despises half of the player base, but still wants to sell to them. This is a game, not the USA...

Cascade_V

I'd like to see a public auction house.
I don't like the current selling mechanic with one.
If people like within guild auctions, that's fine...we still need a public one.

jason.cristofarob14_ESO

Catches_the_Sun wrote: »

How much of an impact do you think gear progression played in the success of Dark Age of Camelot? Everybody capped to level 50 & had their build complete with gear. It is the RvR endgame that kept me & many others playing that game MUCH longer than any other MMO. MMOs need a reason to play other than trying to find the best gear. Why? Because what happens when you get it? Wait for the next expansion to make it obsolete...WoW-style? Horizontal progression & great RvR is what makes a game worth playing long-term.

I think I tried to say this in my initial post, and I apologize if i wasn't clear but I agree completely with your point. I would much prefer horizontal/cosmetic progression because I think it makes for a much more engaging RvR endgame than a standard gear treadmill. I am just trying to be realistic about the player base. As much as you and I would enjoy a relatively low gear curve to make RvR more exciting most of the PvE set like the progression model.