Bolt escape - really?

LadyChaos

beravinprb19_ESO wrote: »

LadyChaos wrote: »

"no one else has..."
wrong - you don't know the other classes/lines

"no one can kill.."
wrong, YOU cannot kill...

start putting you level next to you posts so we can see all the lower levels losing to vets... otherwise stop jumping on the I couldn't catch the pretty trail that went that way bandwagon....

For the record, I am VR1 DK. It looks like this... I charge in and try to stun. They either roll it, or stun break. I have followed up with talons. They roll backwards. They are out of range of my talons, so I charge again. In the time it takes for me to get from where I am to where they are, they have bolted. The snare from my charge happens AFTER they bolt. If I am lucky, I'll get another charge in. Then it becomes a game of cat and mouse to see who runs out of resources first. Charge costs more than bolt, so its a lost cause already. Thus, the fight is concluded, and I will have dropped him to about 50% health at most. Now, with the fight over, I run away and stealth so he can't come back and ambush me.

Now... If I could charge, and have the snare applied BEFORE I actually reach him, then I would be able to deal with a Sorcerer. The down time between charge and the snare is what ruins everything. In the time it takes me to reach the Sorcerer and apply the snare to keep them in the fight, they bolt. While I would more than love for the snare to happen before the charge has finished, it would not make much sense. As such, there is nothing in my build that can counter bolt, in spite of having 3 different forms of crowd control. Either my crowd control needs to move faster, or bolt needs to become weaker.

TY for giving your levels, it paints a less skewed picture. I can see your point of view on the speed of crowd control abilities. I don't use much CC as I am focused on speed and DPS, I also have no heavy armor and am working on more leather to try and get my STA up, because it's STA that always kills me. I am never able to snare or stun a fleeing opponent, I can only drop their HP, with my setup. SO it is either catch them and have no power to finish, or catch them slowly and drop HP enough that my passives kill them, but they are free to sprint the entire time as I don't attack their STA pool, as your CC methods do.

Do you recall the Sorcy level?

When I'm caught it's usually because I've got health potions in Q slot not magica and a snare gets me. I (40) can spam bolt about 5/6 times FULL Magica depending gear setup (there are still passives I have to train to reduce power costs etc of bolt and I don't have it upgraded). I'm never full magica though. In a standard "oh crap here come the bad guys", I have about half that, so I can bolt 2-3 times tops before I have to use other countermeasure, and I usually have already had to stun break once, which means no sprinting or dodge/block, or ability to cast assault speed.

So I can see why people think the Vet sorcy LOOK like they can spam it so much, they have all the upgrades passives and power reductions, and regens etc... right now vets are not the average player though. If you make it harder to cast only vets can use it at all. It makes it nonviable until fully upgraded in multiple lvl 40+ lines.

When I get away it's not because of the distance it's because I've made it over a drop and I stealthed quickly and waited for them to drop down and then have to weigh if I will pounce or slip away... magic regen speed, and opponent level are the factors. IMO the lower levels ones who chased deserved to die because they chased me just to not let one get away, away from their friends and safety of numbers. The ones I slipped away from, I've lost just as many who did it to me as other classes.

I hope this shows it is just as much work to escape for the average sorcy (not vet) not at full power, as much as trying to catch.

chris.carr08b16_ESO

dunno like, im ridin mah horse, i fall off, im stunned, im dead... thats pvp

I hide behind a tower wall becz npc's 3shot me thats pvp

Give the game a chance to get started, balance will come in time i got no doubts

dsalter

scy22b14_ESO wrote: »

Terminus wrote: »

This ability can be countered by the Dragonknight's Pullchain.
Think of them as opposites.
Knockdowns also work very well against it.
Am I giving away secrets for my own build? You betcha I am!

Using this ability more than once in a short time has a very negative impact on your magicka regeneration.

Read the morphs it gets. Proceed to edit your post. And I've played enough PVP to see sorcs use this in bursts of 5 with very little rest in between. You simply aren't privy to all the facts.

bolt escape can be spammed more often and faster then the chain, i just got group *** by a 2hand using Sorc and a caster Sorc spamming bold "escape to bounce around avoiding death and chasing kills like the spell had no cost, we could not take them down.

p.hurst1b16_ESO

There is no benefit to not dying. The sorc can kite a raid away from an objective ... this means either

A: The Sorc is OP
or
B: The raid is dumb enough to chase down one kill and not cap an objective, which would give them more kills and far more points.

Sorry but I had to lol at this one.

As said, no benefit to not dying apart from a little time sink. Sometimes dying can get you where you need to be quicker than running.


Rock Paper Scissors analysis does not work well in TESO PvP. WoW Arena is <<<<<<< that way.

CapuchinSeven

Mange wrote: »

People escaping, major problem. Bows killing you before you get up from a horse knockdown at almost any level, that's fine.

L2P.

Firstly, actually set your horse up so you don't get knocked off.

Secondly, knocked off my horse, press bash (right and left mouse buttons), the fall is cleared and I'm now immune to CC. And because I was smart enough to work out you get more bang putting points into health and using armour for magic and stamina when I pop a potion they suddenly start to regret knocking me off my horse.

L2P.

dba.2000_ESO

Harakh wrote: »

Look at 4:18 for me it is to much advantage from Bolt Escape

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_FPi5eYSmfU

A VR3 fighting a couple of 11's and 15's who don't seem to know what they're doing. So, OP. Which is obvious because you have all that time to Toss Crystal Blast's at them.

Utherix

Fiery Grip is absolutely not a counter to Bolt Escape for three obvious reasons.

1. One Bolt Escape is almost the max range of Fiery Grip.
2. Fiery Grip is subject to CC immunity.
3. Bolt Escape has a morph which negates spells including Fiery Grip.

I hope this puts that argument to rest.

Semel

Bolt Escape has a morph which negates spells

Wrong. it protects only against projectiles(arrows,default staff magic attacks etc) not spells/abilities
and it also works bad if works at all


Im sorry but it looks like you just dont know what you are talking about.

Hail_Sithis

Charging is hard.

Pulling as a DK is hard.

Timing CC preemptively is hard

Hitting him with DoTs is hard.

NOT chasing the Sorcerer into an obvious trap, and instead recovering your own resources and moving on to do something else is hard.

Class diversity is overpowered.


I'll make you a deal, You can nerf Sorc's blink ability if critical charge, mist form, fiery chain, teleport strike, focused charge,shadow cloak and EVERY RANGED ATTACK (Some of which are CC) IN THE GAME are removed entirely.


If the idea of a class getting a unique ability that other classes don't get seriously is this mind-boggling to you, just get out, You're never going to learn to play, you're always going to be "That guy"

You know the one. The one that goes "Healers heal too much" or "Tanks take way too much damage." or "I lost a duel against the stealth class when he got the drop on me, NERF STEALTH!"

Grow the hell up.

beravinprb19_ESO

You talk like someone who has never tried to deal with bolt from a charge point of view. Instead of telling us all to "learn to play", lets look at the facts of the situation.

1. Charge needs a target. Bolt just needs a direction.
2. Charge takes time to reach the destination. Bolt is instant.
3. Charge costs more stamina than bolt costs magicka.
4. Stamina is needed for other things. Block, stun break, sneak, etc.
5. Charge only applies the snare after it reaches the target.

If you insist on talking about gap closers as if they countered bolt, then at least learn how they work before you have the nerve to tell someone else to learn how to play.

Kolache

beravinprb19_ESO wrote: »

You talk like someone who has never tried to deal with bolt from a charge point of view.

Pretty much. The defense of this ability usually involves some argument like being "stunlocked" or something that leads one to believe they're either trolling you or theory-crafting, poorly.

CC is apparently the way to kill a Sorc, despite them being able to CC you just as easily, and their primary escape resource being magicka. 2 people CC, 2 people break it, you can charge a few times (if you even had a target in range to charge), they can bolt twice as many. Apparently a Sorc simply explodes if you even manage to touch them.

Sorcs are allegedly "squishy", even though they get a couple abilities that allow them to cap armor without a single piece of heavy armor. But they can't heal well, right? Aside from healing on crit, healing from pet, or channeling to full in combat a few seconds after they've LoS'ed you.

Another popular defense is that there are some other OP things out there, as if nothing in this game is going to get tuned in the future. It's an MMO after all, and those never change of course.

My Sorc is level 30--I just wish I would have started out as one.

Hail_Sithis

I will enjoy destroying your arguments; my comments will be bolded and in parenthesis. Highlights of stupidity in the original quotes will be just bolded.

beravinprb19_ESO wrote: »

beravinprb19_ESO wrote: »

1. Charge needs a target. Bolt just needs a direction. (And stunted magicka regeneration, and it doesn't go as far on an incline, and is laughably easy to track, and allows you to recover your resources just as much as him, for the sake of space i'll stop.)

2. Charge takes time to reach the destination. Bolt is instant. (Lightning goes at the speed of light, The guy in heavy armor with the claymore/battleaxe takes longer to reach the destination.-- http://stickerish.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/GreatScottBlackWithTextSS.png )

3. Charge costs more stamina than bolt costs magicka. (And causes critical damage, and can be morphed to knockdown ,or here's a wild concept, save your stamina for when they bolt? I'm sorry your rotation doesn't work on everybody.)

4. Stamina is needed for other things. Block, stun break, sneak, etc. (Magicka is needed for all class abilities, Shame on the sorc for using BOLT ESCAPE to escape. Catch him and he's an easy kill.)

5. Charge only applies the snare after it reaches the target. (1. Bolt escape doesn't have a snare unless morphed for the insanely small stun. 2. A snare is better than nothing. 3. You need to morph your charge.)

Furthermore, Charge is not the only gap closer in the game. Again, learn to play.

Kolache wrote: »

Kolache wrote: »

The defense of this ability usually involves some argument like being "stunlocked" (No, the defense of Bolt Escape is a combination of the name of the ability, The incompetence/Build weakness of the attacker, and the exaggerations of those who have nothing constructive to add.)


CC is apparently the way to kill a Sorc, despite them being able to CC you just as easily, and their primary escape resource being magicka(So, A sorc who just blew all his stamina to break CC, and is casting an ability that just destroys his magicka, is the most overpowered god in existence? Hokay then.. 2 people CC, 2 people break it(What?), you can charge a few times (if you even had a target in range to charge), they can bolt twice as many. Apparently a Sorc simply explodes if you even manage to touch them. (I find it hilarious how the ability intended to kite melee is only being whined about by melee players. Have your alternate weapon be a bow if it bothers you that much, otherwise, get out.)


Sorcs are allegedly "squishy", even though they get a couple abilities that allow them to cap armor without a single piece of heavy armor (You forgot to mention that DKs also have this, but also get an additional "Thorns" esque side-effect.). But they can't heal well, right? Aside from healing on crit, healing from pet, or channeling to full in combat (Everyone who plays a sorc and uses dark conversion is laughing at you right now.) a few seconds after they've LoS'ed you. (Every class has self healing in some form, this is no different, and in fact, harder to do in combat than the others, next?)

I'd have hated to see your reaction during beta, but I digress, It is scrubs like you two that destroy MMOs, and I am of the opinion that you two just can't stand the idea of someone in an unfavorable situation having a tool to help them get out of it.

Kolache

Hail_Sithis wrote: »

. . . Lightning goes at the speed of light, The guy in heavy armor with the claymore/battleaxe takes longer to reach the destination.

Hail_Sithis wrote: »

No, the defense of Bolt Escape is a combination of the name of the ability . . .

lol these are gold, please keep going!

stevenyaub16_ESO

this reminds me of ride the lightning from GW2, it is crazy escape.

I think its a nessecary skill that gives sorcerors flavor, but i think it should give increasing magicka consumption when used one after another, to prevent spam. but still giving you a good escape too. I agree that in it's current state it is very silly.

Mist form is nearly as bad.

Hail_Sithis

Kolache wrote: »

lol these are gold, please keep going!

http://files.sharenator.com/facepalm1-s2893x1875-63744.jpg

Alure

All bolt needs is a climbing magicka cost such that successive casts within a set cooldown (say 5 seconds) cost more magicka per cast.

ie: first cast 100, 2nd cast 200 if within 5 seconds, 3rd cast 300 etc... and the climbing magicka costs reset after set time (eg 5 seconds).

Would promote more planning for when scorcs use bolt escape, as opposed to spamming it until beyond clipping range, and yet would still allow them to chain cast 3-4 casts (but prevent chain casts of 5,6,7,8+ times).

JoseDelgadoCub17_ESO

Semel wrote: »

I looked at the video What a sad bunch of elitists.

There are ways to get bolt escape sorcerer.

It has already a high cost and regen debuff. Move on and stop whining.

Btw morphed mist form is even slightly faster than this teleporting ability.

can tank, heal, single target and aoe dps

Other classes can do that just fine.

And some quotes in regard to elitists jerks video:

Another one filming himself in his bedroom… I had a 1vs1 fight with an sorc that tried to bolt escape, ending with a 3rd and final Critical Charge killing him. So if he is to fast, you are to slow.

Lol my group was there. What I found absolutely hilarious was that ER which had more men lost the fight to a group of pugs and 2 guild grps (seperate guilds) of 4 people. We also had no problems running down your sorcs using bolt escape. Sui can cofirm this

PS Ah you are the same dude from ridiculous Pulsar thread. Now everything is clear to me.
Ignored.

Sorcerer can use dark conversion to get magicka back.
It gives you a spell shield
If you wait for your horse they will stealth

It should just cost more mana after every use

Kililin

Sorc overpowered, Vamp overpowered, DK overpowered, NB ganking OMG, Siege overpowered vs Walls, Destro Staff overpowered everything overpowered omg this game has not only a few shallow skills that are the same for everyone (with different names) but actually skills that feel powerfull... I dont even...

deathcoyrwb17_ESO

Kililin wrote: »

Sorc overpowered, Vamp overpowered, DK overpowered, NB ganking OMG, Siege overpowered vs Walls, Destro Staff overpowered everything overpowered omg this game has not only a few shallow skills that are the same for everyone (with different names) but actually skills that feel powerfull... I dont even...

AND THERE YOU HAVE IT!!!!!

The only class not in the OP list is Templars, nerfed to the ground before launch. You DK, Sorc, NB, Vamp, Were players are QQing about each other's OP'ness, for once, JUST ONCE, put yourselves in the shoes of a Templar. We get *** on by everything.

Thevenin

Templars are immensely better than other classes at healing, actually. Making them perfectly essential to any PvP group. Templar QQ before launch was just a bunch of hysterical whiners who had played the open beta for 5 hours and had no clue. If their mana return on cast hadn't been nerfed, no other class would have ever touched a restoration staff.
Sorcs have two broken abilities (bolt escape and their bubble ultimate), the rest is fine.
DKs have a *** of overpowered abilities. Nerfing only the worst ones (standard and talons) won't fix the issue but will make things slightly better.
Vampires are too strong. If their passives ever get fixed, everyone will play as a vampire and have fighters guild skills slotted.
NBs and Werewolves are subpar at the moment. A little below 50% of NB skills and passives are bugged and less effective than they should be. They lack CC and AoE, and most of their single target class abilities suck. Lots of people play it in PvP because they want to play the sneaky rogue class and it seemed like the obvious choice. A sorcerer with daggers and medium armor would perform twice better though. Werewolves are a mess, and are suffering from the vampire OPness because now everyone and their mother uses fighters' guild skills.

Ramanadjinn

Bolt Escape - Truly.

LadyChaos

@Thevenin‌

Sorcs have two broken abilities (bolt escape and their bubble ultimate), the rest is fine.

Neither is broken except that morphed bolt escape doesn't seem to block projectiles as good as people seem to think it does. I plan to re-morph it because of this myself.

Vampires move even faster than we do, with less risk to life and limb being non-targetable, and everyone can get that line, it's not class locked. Vampire had the scroll yesterday. I was full power no aggro from his raid that he left behind. I could not kill nor catch him below 6-10%, at full power and I hit him in stealth from behind as he had already been misting 3-4 times before he got to my stealth location. His friends caught up to me and I was chained, talloned and speared to death before being able to finish off a low health target as a lightning caster (ie we insta-kill low health targets), because he was non-targetable.

If you say bolt is OP then Mist > Bolt... some specs move fast, it's their build. It's like when people thought Bards were op in EQ because of their speed... that was their thing nothing can catch them. They didn't even use horses because horses were slower than them. It's how they are supposed to be. At least ESO made an open skill line that is faster than us as one of the various counters, and I'm fine with that.

---

"Bubble" is also not broken and works as intended. When the NPCs at the farm cast it on you every-time you go at them, it works exactly the same way. If you are in the bubble as a PC you are silenced, as an NPC its a stun. How many times I've bolted to a spot had bubble dropped on me and not been able to escape... that's how it's supposed to work.

If the other classes need more excitement great, push for those classes, but not by trying to water down others.

Thevenin

Some skills need to be buffed, that's certain, but others have to be nerfed too.
And yes, bolt escape and bubble are over the top.
You're simply defending them because you play sorcerer, you'd be screaming bloody murder if you didn't.
Bubble might more balanced once Broken Talons and Standard of Win are nerfed into oblivion, but it's difficult to foresee.

Mist is also way too powerful, and it's why I said vampires are too strong. (That, and the ability to stack ultimate cost reducing passives until bats become spammable)

deathcoyrwb17_ESO

Thevenin wrote: »

Templars are immensely better than other classes at healing, actually. Making them perfectly essential to any PvP group. Templar QQ before launch was just a bunch of hysterical whiners who had played the open beta for 5 hours and had no clue. If their mana return on cast hadn't been nerfed, no other class would have ever touched a restoration staff.

Thats the problem you see. To encourage other classes to Heal via Resto Staff, they nerfed Templars BUT at the same time, Templars are still the preferred Healers. PvP Raids or dungeons i go to, i'm always pigeon holed to play as a Healer because i'm a Templar, other roles are more optimal played by DK, Sorc, NB. Other classes can play different roles but Templars mostly are stucked as Healers on top of the nerf. If Templars are gonna be the preferred Healers then might as well let them be the best at it. ZOS is taking 1 step forward and 2 steps back with their approach of pre-launch balancing.

LadyChaos

Thevenin wrote: »

Some skills need to be buffed, that's certain, but others have to be nerfed too.
And yes, bolt escape and bubble are over the top.
You're simply defending them because you play sorcerer, you'd be screaming bloody murder if you didn't.
Bubble might more balanced once Broken Talons and Standard of Win are nerfed into oblivion, but it's difficult to foresee.

Mist is also way too powerful, and it's why I said vampires are too strong. (That, and the ability to stack ultimate cost reducing passives until bats become spammable)

I'm not defending them JUST because I play sorcerer. I'm commenting on them because I use hem regularly and have point of view on them. I don't play a vampire but I don't have a problem with them or DK either... and DKs kick me in the teeth every-time. I literally cannot get one without bubble up when they are rocking that AoE.

Speed alone does make a class overpower -- on bolt specifically. Like I said previously it's not trendsetting that some classes/lines have higher speed bonuses than others, it's been around forever in the MMO world.

The problem isn't bolt, it's that other classes don't feel they have something special to make their class enjoyable... and they should be focusing on getting their class what it needs to be enjoyable, not trying to take away from the others in the name of "OP".

Semel

Let me break it down for ya lot crying nerf nerf.

Cost reduction:

- 7 pieces of light armor:21%
- sorcerer's passive: 5%
- seducre's set: 3%

Total cost reduction: 29%.

Mostly with the loss of having a good armor rating. When you have all 7 pieces equipped your armor rating is crap.

At vr4 sorcerer with ~ 30% cost reduction uses ALL magicka to cast 7 bolt escapes one by one.

After EVERY cast magicka REGENERATION COMPLETELY STOPS for 5 seconds.

Soban

More like nerf block+insta am I right? I keep having to kill bad DKs with streak since they block everything else and usually aren't worth using SA on.

Sariias

I don't think that people are mad that players are running away, I think they're mad about how easy it is that bolt escape lets someone run away.

Two casts and they're out of range, and you have no hope of ever catching them again. It doesn't take skill to do this, and I've never had luck with chains trying to stop them.

LadyChaos

Sariiasb14_ESO wrote: »

I don't think that people are mad that players are running away, I think they're mad about how easy it is that bolt escape lets someone run away.

Two casts and they're out of range, and you have no hope of ever catching them again. It doesn't take skill to do this, and I've never had luck with chains trying to stop them.

I see your point of view, and it is well expressed.

The thing most don't seem to catch is that because you saw one get away "easy" 10 died in similar attempts. You don't even notice the ones who never got bolt off because they got stunned. You think we ALLWAYS escape. It is one of the biggest myths of Cyrodiil atm.

When one escapes in a 1v1, I have very little sympathy for calls to nerf anything based on 1v1 scenarios.

ChairGraveyard

People escaping a battle with Bolt ESCAPE = broken.

People insta-killing other players with bash spam? TOTALLY FINE.

That's ESO forum logic for ya.