Bolt escape - really?

ThatHappyCat

Semel wrote: »

Have YOU tried it? It detects just fine. When we were PVPing it was hilarious to kill small groups of players who thought they knew better and were hidden in stealth.

I always have it on my bar for the crit. The detection radius is tiny, you have to be almost in melee range to see them. In the video you were referring to at no point would Magelight have helped the opposition find the Sorcerer as she was able to easily Bolt Escape a sufficient distance before sneaking. Magelight helps against unaware sneakers, it has very little benefit (detection-wise) against someone at a distance who knows they're being hunted.

bantad87

Sleepydan wrote: »

This thread still exists? I don't, like really don't get how changing bolt escape into bolt die-anyway improves the game.

Not when the strategy at large involves using the same resource to escape as you are to damage. And all that regen you stacked goes to crap from the debuff. And this game has stupid huge fights to sack castles???


Maybe, just maybe in super over the top best gear ever players could do it all. If that's the case, the answer is to change the way the soft/hard caps work, because I'm not saying you should be able to do it all. I'm saying sorc mobility has strengths AND weaknesses relative to other class mobility skills, and that it's fine as is

Who says using magicka has to be the same resource as your damaging resource; you could, you know, use a bow, or dual wield, sword/board, or 2h. In that case bolt escape allows someone to get in, blow stamina, and run to regent stamina for infinite killing potential...lol. So narrow-minded.

Sorcs can use stamina for damage, and bolt escape for running or infinite gap closers. Zzz.
Bolt escape trivializes overextending, not paying attention, and allows stamina builds the ability to kite forever with no risk of resource depletion. All of which other classes and builds are punished for. You're an idiot if you play ranged or melee anything non-sorc because you can simply use magucka for escapes and heals, and stamina for damage...lol.

ThatHappyCat

bantad87 wrote: »

Bolt escape trivializes overextending

This is the key point, I think. With any other class you have to choose your battles carefully, as if you overextend death is a likely outcome. If a Sorcerer with Bolt Escape overextends however, they have a pretty good chance of getting out of it alive.

Bolt Escape is also perfect for ganking. With it, almost any enemy you can see, you can reach and kill. And before anyone says "you'll be out of magicka", most Veteran Sorc gankers I see use a stamina weapon as their main source of damage.

Does it make Sorcs "OP"? No, not in the sense of 1v1 capability. What it does do is make Sorcs particularly forgiving to play.

danteafk

This needs to be nerfed asap. So fundamental broken, you can even use it if you have an Elder Scroll carrying, what?

Reignskream

scy22b14_ESO wrote: »

Terminus wrote: »

This ability can be countered by the Dragonknight's Pullchain.
Think of them as opposites.
Knockdowns also work very well against it.
Am I giving away secrets for my own build? You betcha I am!

Using this ability more than once in a short time has a very negative impact on your magicka regeneration.

Read the morphs it gets. Proceed to edit your post. And I've played enough PVP to see sorcs use this in bursts of 5 with very little rest in between. You simply aren't privy to all the facts.

would shield charge be viable against it?

beravinprb19_ESO

I'm sorry, but this whole argument just seems ridiculous to me. As a Dragonknight, I have fought many Sorcerer's that use this, and I'm just amazed that the spell is even allowed to exist. It is far too effective for how often it can be used. Its just too efficient.

I have Stampede and Burning Talons, but its just not enough. I charge in, and during the animation, he has blinked away. Because of this, I can't land my talons. Sure, he gets rooted.... After he has already blinked away. Then he just rolls, and proceeds to vanish to the other side of the field. I can't exactly mount up and chase him either, since I'll be in combat for the next 2 minutes. So what do you suggest? Sprinting after him? Then what will I have left to charge / fight him with? I simply can't stop him from escaping.

And please... "If he runs, you win". What a load of rubbish. If he runs, and gets away, then you failed to kill him. He will remain a threat and will likely kill or hinder your allies. He will continue aiding his alliance against you. One of the reasons we kill people in this game is because it is both fun and challenging. The other reason is because we want to win, and that involves stopping the other team from winning. Killing them prevents them from being useful to their team, and thus, greatly improves your own chances of winning.

If my Dragonknight had access to it, I'd take it up in a second. But no, if I get into a bad situation, then I usually die. Like everyone else. Why does the Sorcerer get to be the only exception? I just do not understand how people think this ability is balanced.

Kolache

Reignskream wrote: »

would shield charge be viable against it?

Nah not really. They happen so quickly that it would be difficult even with a flat-fielded uninterrupted foot race. Add a little Cyrodiil terrain and it's not even close. Besides, even if you could catch them they're just going to break stun and continue bolting.

It would be bragging rights to say that you hit them with 1 shield charge before they got away though, I guess.

Gunsang

I think the simple solution is to make it so that it doesn't work when you're harmed for few seconds. This will allow them to chase after someone, and even blink into a battle. However, the harm effect will force them to commit to either fighting or ducking out for a few seconds--like every other class.

Of course, tweaks may be less mana cost, bigger range, etc, because you certainly can't take away something without giving in turn.

This ability is an obvious problem, and only two types of people are missing the reasoning--the daft, and the greedy.

Kolache

I'd probably add a cast time that channeled a decent pbaoe before teleporting. Like 1.5s cast, aoe damage pulse every .5s. At least then you could tweak the math in some way that should ultimately make it desirable without introducing gameplay mechanics that are really hard to balance around.

They need to add some other functionality to it or it'll just toggle between useless and too useful.

dba.2000_ESO

beravinprb19_ESO wrote: »

And please... "If he runs, you win". What a load of rubbish. If he runs, and gets away, then you failed to kill him. He will remain a threat and will likely kill or hinder your allies. He will continue aiding his alliance against you. One of the reasons we kill people in this game is because it is both fun and challenging. The other reason is because we want to win, and that involves stopping the other team from winning. Killing them prevents them from being useful to their team, and thus, greatly improves your own chances of winning.

I can't tell if this is sarcasm, I'm going to assume it is, because if not, wow.

Sorcs aren't obligated to die just because you want them dead. They are there to hinder or kill your allies. He bolt escapes so he can continue aiding his alliance against you. One of the reasons they kill people and/or Bolt Escape in this game is because it is both fun and challenging. The other reason they use bolt escape is because they want to win, and that involves stopping the other team from winning. You killing them prevents them from being useful to their team, and thus, greatly improves his own chances of losing.

Again, I couldn't tell if you were using irony or sarcasm, but, I hope you were.

The ability is not a problem, its doing what it's supposed to do: Allowing sorcs to Bolt Escape.

Maybe I should start a threat for every NB or DK skill that has killed me, and ask for them to be nerfed...

zaria

Jitterbug wrote: »

I certainly feel like all the classes are OP and that we should nerf mudcrabs and argonian swim speed!

Saw an level 3 player atacked an mudcrab, took damage, tried to run away and was killed

Mobius0

zaria wrote: »

Jitterbug wrote: »

I certainly feel like all the classes are OP and that we should nerf mudcrabs and argonian swim speed!

Saw an level 3 player atacked an mudcrab, took damage, tried to run away and was killed

Just wait till he has to face VR mudcrabs! haha

Kolache

dba.2000_ESO wrote: »

The ability is not a problem, its doing what it's supposed to do: Allowing sorcs to Bolt Escape.

Really? So if they had just named the skill "Blink" you would be fine with having to try to escape instead of being guaranteed an escape?

You don't see people complaining about NBs cloak/path because there are reasonable counters to them. Their skills aren't useless simply because they don't work 100% of the time.

dba.2000_ESO

Kolache wrote: »

dba.2000_ESO wrote: »

The ability is not a problem, its doing what it's supposed to do: Allowing sorcs to Bolt Escape.

Really? So if they had just named the skill "Blink" you would be fine with having to try to escape instead of being guaranteed an escape?

You don't see people complaining about NBs cloak/path because there are reasonable counters to them. Their skills aren't useless simply because they don't work 100% of the time.

Aside from the hilarity involved with arguing that a sorc Running Away is op ... wait, nope, that's pretty funny stuff.

Can we nerf all stealthed nb attacks? Especially those with roots? And poison arrows, I really hate those. And that annoying thing DK's do when they sprout wings ...

If ESO wants to ruin their game, I can't think of a faster way of doing it then calling for nerfs after barely 2 weeks of live.

Bunzaga_ESO

I've chased down two of these bolt escape losers and killed them both I would have had a third, but then their zerg rolled in to help.

It's not OP, just annoying. It also sets the person up who uses it to lose the fight, since by the time they are done running, they are out of mana, meanwhile I have full stamina and 1/2 my mana, and can easily kill them.

bantad87

Bunzaga_ESO wrote: »

I've chased down two of these bolt escape losers and killed them both I would have had a third, but then their zerg rolled in to help.

It's not OP, just annoying. It also sets the person up who uses it to lose the fight, since by the time they are done running, they are out of mana, meanwhile I have full stamina and 1/2 my mana, and can easily kill them.

What if he uses stamina based attacks? He can still fight just fine then. Being OOM is not a valid counterargument when you have stamina as a damage, cc,and defensive resource as well.

Censorious

This is a new game. It plays differently from any other game in the past. It takes time for people to get the hang of things.
Most of us haven't even got all our skills unlocked yet and already people are screaming for nerfs.

tldr? L2P.

AngelofAwe

I actually managed to catch one of these bolting VR sorcerer muppets yesterday with my DK. He bolted 7 times but luckily for me the terrain was sloped downwards so I had a chance to see which direction he went and I did the only thing I could ... sprinted after him.

Took me 2 stamina potions before I caught up and by that time he had already managed to stealth behind a rock, but by some miracle I found him.

The next issue was that I, as a melee class/build now had 0 stamina left for interrupting, blocking or using any of my weapon based abilities. Which made it a pain in the ass to kill him, while he also dealt significant damage with his remaining magicka, but eventually I downed him.

This was all thanks to lucky circumstances for me though, catching him, finding him and killing him were all far from guaranteed, or even likely.
I thank the nine that he wasn't a stamina based sorcerer, meaning he would be using a bow or something for damage. I would have been SO SO dead and unable to do a thing.

dahl.lucas_ESO

you must have a lot of trouble in pvp in general then if you would have been "SO SO" dead considering how very strong the DK's are at the moment. I hope this thread keeps alive, I find it funny reading peoples inability to deal with this during my work breaks.

Pryda

People will figure out soon enough how to counter Bolt Escape.

Meanwhile it allows Sorc to do some mistakes, overextending etc and stay alive. Soon enough everyone will play with invis pots, batswarm invis ult to escape as well.

NordJitsu

What this thread should have said:

"Hey guys, I'm not very good at this game and I need some help. I keep getting beaten by people using this one skill, Bolt Escape. Can you teach me how to fight them?"

Instead it says:

"Hey, I'm not very good at this game. People are beating me with this one skill, Bolt Escape. Instead of trying to learn and get better at the game, I think you should just destroy that skill so I don't have to learn to play."

Toy

If you really are THE pryda you obviously have been abusing mist form and bolt escape hard since day one and can surely enlighten us on how to counter something that is so very not op and broken that all "leet" PTS vet players deemed it worthy to go for it straight away.

dba.2000_ESO

Toy wrote: »

If you really are THE pryda you obviously have been abusing mist form and bolt escape hard since day one and can surely enlighten us on how to counter something that is so very not op and broken that all "leet" PTS vet players deemed it worthy to go for it straight away.

Nothing ruins my enjoyment of this game then being pulled off a wall by a DK ... That skill is OP, and should be removed.

beravinprb19_ESO

dahl.lucas_ESO wrote: »

you must have a lot of trouble in pvp in general then if you would have been "SO SO" dead considering how very strong the DK's are at the moment. I hope this thread keeps alive, I find it funny reading peoples inability to deal with this during my work breaks.

Sigh, I do wish people would read... He even said he had to use all of his stamina to sprint after the Sorcerer. While not all DK builds are stamina based, the majority are. Picking a fight with your main resource down is usually a very bad idea. In this situation, the Sorcerer he was chasing already had some time to regenerate his magicka and stamina.

Toy

dba.2000_ESO wrote: »

Nothing ruins my enjoyment of this game then being pulled off a wall by a DK ... That skill is OP, and should be removed.

Only players that position themselves poorly, don't bother to pay attention to their surroundings and have close to zero situational awareness will ever be pulled off a wall by a DK.

Now could you please elaborate how your statement adds to the ongoing discussion in any way?

dba.2000_ESO

Toy wrote: »

dba.2000_ESO wrote: »

Nothing ruins my enjoyment of this game then being pulled off a wall by a DK ... That skill is OP, and should be removed.

Only players that position themselves poorly, don't bother to pay attention to their surroundings and have close to zero situational awareness will ever be pulled off a wall by a DK.

Now could you please elaborate how your statement adds to the ongoing discussion in any way?

I think it's obvious. It's been two weeks, and already you people are crying foul. So, Let's Nerf stealth nb attacks, let's nerf wall pulls... let's nerf everything that annoys you, simply because, omg, a mage escaped!

It's ridiculous. It's made even more ridiculous because you wanna nerf it because it's hard to KILL SOMEONE WHO'S RUNNING AWAY.

ThatHappyCat

Let's reiterate. Bolt Escape isn't "OP". What it is is it makes playing a Sorcerer very forgiving compared to playing any other class. You can overextend with considerably less chance of death than any other class.

So no, Bolt Escape certainly doesn't make Sorcerers OP, it doesn't really confer a combat advantage. It does however make playing Sorcerers relatively easy.

dba.2000_ESO

Please, you think a char is 'relatively easy to play' because they can escape?

A sorcerer, who has to flee constantly, is easy to play? Or do you all just want a sorcerer who has no tools to back out of melee...we can eliminate all the closers while we're at it? Or does disallowing a class to get to his fighting range only apply to Sorcs, because them running from melee is so easy to play?

Btw, if I'm overextended, I'm out of magicka, I'm not bolting to anywhere.

ThatHappyCat

dba.2000_ESO wrote: »

Please, you think a char is 'relatively easy to play' because they can escape?

A sorcerer, who has to flee constantly, is easy to play? Or do you all just want a sorcerer who has no tools to back out of melee...we can eliminate all the closers while we're at it? Or does disallowing a class to get to his fighting range only apply to Sorcs, because them running from melee is so easy to play?

Btw, if I'm overextended, I'm out of magicka, I'm not bolting to anywhere.

Not sure what you're talking about Sorcerers having to "flee constantly" and "get to his fighting range". Sounds like you aren't talking about the Sorcerer as a class, just your personal playstyle.

I should point out that no other class has tools to back out of melee, unless you count speed boosts and such which the Sorcerer does have in Boundless Storm.

Toy

dba.2000_ESO wrote: »

I think it's obvious. It's been two weeks, and already you people are crying foul. So, Let's Nerf stealth nb attacks, let's nerf wall pulls... let's nerf everything that annoys you, simply because, omg, a mage escaped!

It's ridiculous. It's made even more ridiculous because you wanna nerf it because it's hard to KILL SOMEONE WHO'S RUNNING AWAY.

Unless the runner is a sorc, it's not hard to kill someone who's trying to get away, since all the other classes have terrible mobility. Apperently only sorcs, which also happen to be the most capable ranged dds, are allowed to escape successfully. Additionally sorcs can use the skill to engage/disengage/reengage at will limitlessly. Tried outrunning a sorc? Not happening, not even on your fast mount! Tried running from a sorc? Not happening either, again not even on your mount! Tried retaking a stolen elder scrolls? Don't bother, it's carried by a sorc...always! Tried ignoring the sorc that's attacking your group from behind? Good luck, as it takes a v10 sorc roughly 20% magicka to nuke someone into the high heavens then disengage/reengage rinse and repeat. And all that thanks to our beloved bolt escape, sounds like a really balanced skill to me^^