Bolt escape - really?

ThatHappyCat

I've posted this as its own thread, but: what if all gap closing skills could be used like Bolt Escape when they don't have a target?

To compensate for Bolt Escape being a tier 5 skill and preserve its uniqueness, perhaps Bolt Escape could teleport you backwards instead: an "escape". This slightly reduces its usefulness in travel (can't see where you're going very well) but makes it a lot more useful in combat, as you could teleport away while maintaining your target in your sights; allowing you to kite enemies with ease.

And whatever magicka dampening effect Bolt Escape has now would be removed of course, since everyone can access a ground-covering skill so it's no longer a unique advantage that needs to be regulated.

dba.2000_ESO

Sounds like you're complaining because a v10 sorc is good at being a v10 sorc. We can't have that now, can we?

reagen_lionel

Toy wrote: »

Jitterbug wrote: »

I certainly feel like all the classes are OP and that we should nerf mudcrabs and argonian swim speed!

All classes are overpowered, but some classes are more overpowered than others.

If all classes are over powered, then there is no such thing as being over powered in the first place. that completely negates its definition.

Toy

reagen_lionel wrote: »

Toy wrote: »

Jitterbug wrote: »

I certainly feel like all the classes are OP and that we should nerf mudcrabs and argonian swim speed!

All classes are overpowered, but some classes are more overpowered than others.

If all classes are over powered, then there is no such thing as being over powered in the first place. that completely negates its definition.

Apparently you neither did get the george orwell reference nor really thought it through.

Jackiepvp

reagen_lionel wrote: »

Toy wrote: »

Jitterbug wrote: »

I certainly feel like all the classes are OP and that we should nerf mudcrabs and argonian swim speed!

All classes are overpowered, but some classes are more overpowered than others.

If all classes are over powered, then there is no such thing as being over powered in the first place. that completely negates its definition.

Theres a word for that, its called power creep. In the extreme example a game where everybody had a 1shot button would technically be relatively balanced, but that does not make the game balanced. Everybody being OP is hardly a solution to anything.

Mobius0

Lol, I tried another trick last night, that worked. After each time he bolted, I used Cloak of Shadows. That way when he turned around, he thought he had lost me. He hadn't lost me....

dermottib14_ESO

Yer mad because someone can run from you? wow.....whine whine whine

dba.2000_ESO

Mobius0 wrote: »

Lol, I tried another trick last night, that worked. After each time he bolted, I used Cloak of Shadows. That way when he turned around, he thought he had lost me. He hadn't lost me....

So, what you're saying is Cloak of Shadows is Too OP! And it should be Nerfed! j/k btw.

Mobius0

I nerf it every fight I'm ever in, with Mark Target (Which, incidentally, is bugged. It offers 0 armor pen. But I still use it for seeing through stealth.)

TheGrandAlliance

Bolt escape is OP because no other class has any escape mechanic even remotely close. EVen a Nightblade's inviso doesn't make you unhitable/take no damage, able to run from one side of the screen to other in short time or otherwise...

And being TES game... where in a TES game did "bolt escape" exist in teh first place? There is no lore to even justify this skill. Would be an epic tool to break out of Skryim's jails now Indeed...

Aemesh23

Read no further if your mind is to remain intact!

You are an agent of Cthulhu, spreading malcontent and dissonance. This is what happens when you speak the unspeakable words, like "nerf" (if you speak, hear or read this word, it will fester in your brain, tearing not only at the fabric of your soul, but spreading that madness to others, as they spam the word over and over in their counter-arguments or generally lose control of their rational mind and resort to name-calling and the flinging of foul or otherwise dangerous objects. Entropy ensues!)

to quote a genius (whose name escapes me)
Says rock: Nerf paper! Scissors are fine.

(p.s. I agree, annoying skill, and just a couple days ago, i had my own doubts. But the pvp meta evolves every day and it should be allowed to run its course for a while. I wonder, how many sorcs get one-shot by a vet 3 nb's 2hand weapon charge and think "god that's OP! it should be nerfed". I can think of a few other combos that can eliminate a player without a fighting chance. Doesn't mean they should nerf 'em.... Oh f* my life, now you have me saying it! Nerf this damn OP's thread!)

devironfaranigps_ESO

If you nerf sorc escape then you need to nerf all the other classes abilities to heal/survival skills. Sorcs do not have a healing ability at all in there class lines like every other class does. I dont play a sorc I play a templar but its absolutely stupid to get this mad because someone got away from you. And yes he is not a threat running way but even if you kill him it doesnt take long to get back on the front lines anyway.

Lesspa

You want to stop a Sorc who is spamming bolt escape? Then why dont you stun them... Oh wait.... you cant, because that sorc most likely runs immovable in one of their bars.

Oh, so you got the stun and he is almost dead? Well guess what! Now he just spams away with a hard CC immune and lives to fight another day. Oh yeah, and talons doesnt do ***... they can spam bolt but remain rooted where they land, making roots pointless.

Got snuck up on by a sorc using bolt escape? Well, just root him or CC him and start whomping on his ass until hes dea..... OH WAIT! he LEFT+RIGHT clicked out, is now immune to CC and bolts away while stunning you in the process.

Good luck competing with a group who has a bolt escaping sorc....might as well just ignore him because you're either gonna be spending your time/resources taking him out, or you're gonna be spending your time ignoring him while getting *** in the process.

Horse doesnt help because you need to be out of combat to mount.

BTW crit surge is an **EPIC** sorc heal. So if you're saying sorcs don't have heals, you're just ignorant.

Knockdown: He will just left+right click out and bolt away
Root: He can just bolt escape away while rooted, making the root pointless
Pull: Okay, so now hes CC immune and can still just bolt spam away.
Snare: Wont do ***.
Stun(ie Petrify): left+right click out and bolt away
Am I missing something?

There is NO WAY to counter bolt escape other than BURSTING the *** out of him while hes on the ground stunned... and if you're VR, you know that you cant do this unless its at least 2v1.

Understand that good bolt escape users build their bars around the above situations and make sure they have stamina to break out of CC.

Increase the cost and put a small timer on it. Sorcs still get their escape but wont be able to spam it across the map as soon as they are in trouble.

Semel

Bolt escape is not spammabler ffs. Mana costs + regen debuff makes sure of it. The moment someone says it I immediately understand I'm talking either to a clinical idiot or a troll

beravinprb19_ESO

Semel wrote: »

Bolt escape is not spammabler ffs. Mana costs + regen debuff makes sure of it. The moment someone says it I immediately understand I'm talking either to a clinical idiot or a troll

I don't know about you, but if you can use something 5+ times in a row, with no down time, then I would consider that to be spammable. Now, if you disagree with my point of view, then hey, that is more than fine. That said, you do not need to act like a child about it. If you disagree with us, then tell us why, and do so without all these pointless insults...

Mobius0

If you want to talk about broken escape skills, talk about Mist Form.

Lenthas

I think that ANY class that can spam a uncounterable skill, and still have resource to manage kills is broken.

Say all you want you can stun that sorc, he doesn't use stamina for ANYTHING besides breaking cc, and then gets a 8 second immunity, where he can dance while bolting away.

the ONLY way to apparently kill a bolting sorc is to cc him and kill him before he reacts, basically saying, bad or new people at the game, 2 equally skilled players will always mean 2 things: sorc escapes or sorc kills the other guy and escapes.

That is broken. But a debuff after using that skill that can be dispelled by allies using dispelling stuff so that sorc also have to depend on other people to counter stuff.

Temporal displacement debuff: You can't spam that again unless it's dispelled by something (could even be another skill).

And since we have crystal shard luck factor as well, make one of its morphs to also have a chance of not applying this debuff.

You should not be able to spam an uncounterable skill (yes it is, no matter how many say chains and what not, those can be dodged, this one can't), and still have rss to fight, it should drain you completely if used more than 2 times, which is not whats currently happening.

Lesspa

Semel wrote: »

Bolt escape is not spammabler ffs. Mana costs + regen debuff makes sure of it. The moment someone says it I immediately understand I'm talking either to a clinical idiot or a troll

Its funny, because I literally thought the same thing when you said "Bolt Escape isnt spammable ffs." I really want to know your experience with this game, because i feel we are playing and talking about different games... LOL

Each time I've played AvA, there are at least 3 occasions where a sorc SPAMMED Bolt Escape and was OUT OF MY *VIEW DISTANCE* WITHIN 5 SECONDS.

Bolt Escape is broken. End of story.

NordJitsu

90% of skills in this game are spammable.

Bolt Escape is already hella expensive and also reduces your magicka regen. The only reason people are able to use it in quick succession is because they've intelligently made their build so that they can regen magicka (such as using the resto staff block passive, resto heavy attack, Magicka Harness, ect.)

What Bolt Escape is is an answer to the low survivability of the Sorcerer. They have the worst natural health sustain of any class in the game. So instead they get an escape option.

If you nerf Bolt Escape then you'd damn well better nerf Green Dragon's Blood, Healing Ritual, and Leeching Strikes.

Or, ya know, just leave everything alone because the balance is fine as is and the only people complaining are uniformed noobs with 0 understand of the meta of the game.

Kolache

NordJitsu wrote: »

What Bolt Escape is is an answer to the low survivability of the Sorcerer. They have the worst natural health sustain of any class in the game. So instead they get an escape option.

Since sustain and escaping have nothing to do with eachother I'd rather Sorcs get another healing option for the "noob" sorcs that haven't figured out how to capitalize on critical surge and entropy. Or nerf whatever you want in other classes, I really don't care. At least I can try to find some other way to stay alive while actually being in range of someone I'm trying to kill.

scy22b14_ESO

NordJitsu wrote: »

90% of skills in this game are spammable.

Bolt Escape is already hella expensive and also reduces your magicka regen. The only reason people are able to use it in quick succession is because they've intelligently made their build so that they can regen magicka (such as using the resto staff block passive, resto heavy attack, Magicka Harness, ect.)

What Bolt Escape is is an answer to the low survivability of the Sorcerer. They have the worst natural health sustain of any class in the game. So instead they get an escape option.

If you nerf Bolt Escape then you'd damn well better nerf Green Dragon's Blood, Healing Ritual, and Leeching Strikes.

Or, ya know, just leave everything alone because the balance is fine as is and the only people complaining are uniformed noobs with 0 understand of the meta of the game.

It's not how much the skill costs to use, but rather how effective it is for the cost of using it.

You would contend that bolt escape is already expensive.

I would then have to assert that if someone can break out of CC, then proceed to use an ability enough times consecutively so as to vanish from viewing distance in a matter of a couple seconds, that the skill indeed is not expensive enough.

LadyChaos

"no one else has..."
wrong - you don't know the other classes/lines

"no one can kill.."
wrong, YOU cannot kill...

start putting you level next to you posts so we can see all the lower levels losing to vets... otherwise stop jumping on the I couldn't catch the pretty trail that went that way bandwagon....

beravinprb19_ESO

LadyChaos wrote: »

"no one else has..."
wrong - you don't know the other classes/lines

"no one can kill.."
wrong, YOU cannot kill...

start putting you level next to you posts so we can see all the lower levels losing to vets... otherwise stop jumping on the I couldn't catch the pretty trail that went that way bandwagon....

For the record, I am VR1 DK. It looks like this... I charge in and try to stun. They either roll it, or stun break. I have followed up with talons. They roll backwards. They are out of range of my talons, so I charge again. In the time it takes for me to get from where I am to where they are, they have bolted. The snare from my charge happens AFTER they bolt. If I am lucky, I'll get another charge in. Then it becomes a game of cat and mouse to see who runs out of resources first. Charge costs more than bolt, so its a lost cause already. Thus, the fight is concluded, and I will have dropped him to about 50% health at most. Now, with the fight over, I run away and stealth so he can't come back and ambush me.

Now... If I could charge, and have the snare applied BEFORE I actually reach him, then I would be able to deal with a Sorcerer. The down time between charge and the snare is what ruins everything. In the time it takes me to reach the Sorcerer and apply the snare to keep them in the fight, they bolt. While I would more than love for the snare to happen before the charge has finished, it would not make much sense. As such, there is nothing in my build that can counter bolt, in spite of having 3 different forms of crowd control. Either my crowd control needs to move faster, or bolt needs to become weaker.

Kolache

beravinprb19_ESO wrote: »

As such, there is nothing in my build that can counter bolt, in spite of having 3 different forms of crowd control. Either my crowd control needs to move faster, or bolt needs to become weaker.

Unfortunately, without some significant change Sorcs will have some wiggle room to adapt as well. All they have to do is be bothered to use some CC of their own on you to mix in with bolting and you will never catch up, even if they are in range of a charge, because you're having to blow half your stamina to break a stun.

TBH, I just gave up and decided to switch to a sorc for a while.

beravinprb19_ESO

Kolache wrote: »

beravinprb19_ESO wrote: »

As such, there is nothing in my build that can counter bolt, in spite of having 3 different forms of crowd control. Either my crowd control needs to move faster, or bolt needs to become weaker.

Unfortunately, without some significant change Sorcs will have some wiggle room to adapt as well. All they have to do is be bothered to use some CC of their own on you to mix in with bolting and you will never catch up, even if they are in range of a charge, because you're having to blow half your stamina to break a stun.

TBH, I just gave up and decided to switch to a sorc for a while.

Indeed... Personally, I am just too lazy to level up another character at the moment. That, and I want to see some quality of life changes at least before I consider trying to PvP with a different character. But what bothers me most is that this is only one argument on balance. We still have Bat Swarm and Mist Form to deal with... Fun times ahead, no doubt.

Igolbug

Watched a sorc use bolt escape 12 times, and then proceed to start nuking someone down. There is no negative to this ability.

I can use Rapid manuver, with hasty retreat 2(30% movement speed after a roll) and sprint, and I still can not catch up to someone using bolt escape. and that drains the crap out of my stamina whereas they have no negative effects with bolt escape.

aeroch

Zintair wrote: »

It needs to be situational escape/survivability not a travel mechanism.

I agree. Joined a zerg that was running between two keeps yesterday and a Sorcerer was able to keep up and even outpace me while I was mounted. I haven't had too much issue with the skill being used in combat, but being as fast or faster than a mounted player seems a bit much.

NordJitsu

I see Bolt Escaping sorcs getting killed every time I go to Cyrodiil.

If you're not able to kill Sorcs or counter this ability, ask for help from better players.

Don't cry and whine that because you're personal failing that something is imbalanced.

Igolbug

NordJitsu wrote: »

I see Bolt Escaping sorcs getting killed every time I go to Cyrodiil.

If you're not able to kill Sorcs or counter this ability, ask for help from better players.

Don't cry and whine that because you're personal failing that something is imbalanced.

I can kill the bad sorcs who try to use the bolt escape, but the good ones are unkillable. and they don't just run they run but keep you in range so that if you waste all your stats chasing they kill you.

Harakh

Look at 4:18 for me it is to much advantage from Bolt Escape

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_FPi5eYSmfU