Bolt escape - really?

NordJitsu

@Armitas‌


Doesn't much matter how you design it.

Any system that would prevent me from casting my abilities when and how I want to do so, or punish me for doing so, would take away all enjoyment from combat.

There's plenty of games with rotations and cool downs. For me, that's hardly a step up from turn based combat and there's really not much room for player skill.

That's why games like that tend to be decided entirely by stats, builds, and gear. I personally hate that system.

So ya, I'd quit the game. Luckily I predict there is approximately a 1 in 1 gagillion chance that Zenimax would listen to you and reverse their entire design philosophy.

Armitas

NordJitsu wrote: »

Any system that would prevent me from casting my abilities when and how I want to do so, or punish me for doing so, would take away all enjoyment from combat.

You say this, and yet you suggest a punitive system that fulfills your own objection.

1. Increase the cost of Dark Talons to make it less spammable.

From your own thread "Broken Talons in Dragon Knights Online" where you are the OP asking to nerf broken talons. (again I agree with you talons is broken)

Again I only bring this up that you might see that there is some internal bias here, which we all have, myself included. We all slip up on what we say, myself included. I think your a smart guy/girl and a good voice out here even since the temp forums. I'm not trying to call you out, I'm just trying to let you see whats going on here.

NordJitsu

@Armitas‌

To be fair, that was one of many options given as conversation starters, not an actual suggestion of mine.

I made clear throughout that thread that the best option IMO would be to add an immunity after dodge rolling out of any immobilize. Selectively quoting me to make it seem as if I said something other than what I did is disingenuous.

Cost increases are an acceptable way to balance certain skills though, in my opinion. In the Psijic Order, I was the one who lead the charge for a cost increase to Flying Blade. Before, it could be spammed like literally 30 times. The whole meta of the PTS for weeks was "see how much you can reduce stamina costs, increase stamina pool, and increase stamina regen" because the most effective PvPers were the ones who could spam that skill the most times.

Bolt Escape can be cast 5-7 times by your average sorc. For high stat and top geared sorcs, they can get it above 10. But that's with a full magicka bar. When you're trying to escape a fight, you rarely do so with a full bar. The only exception is using it as a counter ganking skill, which again, I think is balanced. A NB can gank from stealth like no other. DKs can cast Dragon's Blood to save themselves. Templars can cast Lingering Ritual. That gets them back in the fight and lets them survive the gank. NBs can go invisible or use Path of Darkness to retreat and selectively reengage. Sorcs can do the same using BE.

We don't have an in combat self heal that allows us to stay there, so we get to retreat, regen, and come back. Same as NBs.

Armitas

That was a fair quote, I think you are just relabeling it after the fact. Let me quote more.

So how do you fix it?

Well there's several options and a mix would probably be best.

1. Increase the cost of Dark Talons to make it less spammable.
2. Make it so that dodge rolling out of an immobilize grants CC immunity for a short duration, just like the CC break system currently does.
3. Reduce the radius of Dark Talons so that a dodge roll takes you out of it unless the DK moves in your direction.

No this is not just a conversation starter. You gave your personal consent to this list.

Nooblet

Just remove bolt escape. Every teleport type ability, every pull-in ability, and every gap closer. I really don't know why these became popular in MMOs. They reduce the depth of PvP rather than increase it IMO. Make positioning.. and pushing/kiting strategy matter again.

Short duration speed bursts fine.. but with a cooldown.

Luvsfuzzybunnies

I am totally on board with nord in increasing the cost of broken abilities. So increase bolt escape and broken talons by the same coefficient then they are both equally less spammable and everything is good. Tbh if you are going to quit cause your one ability is brought to balance with the rest of the game ill use your last counter to bolt eacape and /wave goodbye to you cause thats totally acceptable.

casselna_ESO

Nooblet wrote: »

Just remove bolt escape. Every teleport type ability, every pull-in ability, and every gap closer. I really don't know why these became popular in MMOs. They reduce the depth of PvP rather than increase it IMO. Make positioning.. and pushing/kiting strategy matter again.

Short duration speed bursts fine.. but with a cooldown.

ZOS specifically said that they don't wish to put CD timers on anything, and to keep true to that I had thought of two ways to fix BE.

1) remove it. PLain and simple.

2) the second option is one that could only be coded harshly but be a bit side to side for mages.
2a) if a mage uses BE while under no CC effects (or CC immunity) and he uses BE it depletes his mana down to 10%, and then regens it based on the amount of mana lost. So, say you use it at 100%, you go down to 10% and regen that 90% back over 4 secs. Must have greater than 50% power to use.

2b) if a mage is CC'd and uses it, his mana goes down to 10% and he does not get regen. In other words, this would be a FLIGHT situation, a truly OH SNAP situation.

my thoughts anyways

Mendoze

Nijjion wrote: »

Not 1 person has ever said get rid of the skill... they should be able to cast it couple of times but 12-14... That's way too much for what is intended in a RvR game... when no other class has even close to potential to get away from every fight, granted NB can spam stealth but that can be countered by mage light to my knowledge.

That sounds just fine to me, as long as all the charge/pull skills also require more stamina/mana or whatever. I mean, what's the point of burning half your mana to use one bolt escape, when your opponent can charge or pull you back all day long? So when all skills that can immediately teleport player take half of their stamina/mana, I'll support this proposition 100%.

EDIT: Also no other class can heal like templar, stealth like NB or CC like DK. So what is your point really?

popatiberiuoneb18_ESO

f0rgiv3n27b14_ESO wrote: »

popatiberiuoneb18_ESO wrote: »

Nijjion wrote: »

Mendoze wrote: »

Haha, I just couldn't resist anymore. So many of the complainers here are DKs? I mean really... I could understand if Nightblades, who have relatively low survivability, would complain that they can't kill sorcerers when they get the jump, but when a class with best DPS and CC makes demands, that sorcerers shouldn't have an escape ability from their talons and fires or doom, it's almost funny. And why is that you may ask?... wait wait, because no other class can do it. So if DKs can't kill one class, and some lucky sob gets away every now and then, that class needs a nerf. Just priceless .

Not 1 person has ever said get rid of the skill... they should be able to cast it couple of times but 12-14... That's way too much for what is intended in a RvR game... when no other class has even close to potential to get away from every fight, granted NB can spam stealth but that can be countered by mage light to my knowledge.

Nope, mage light wont work vs 5 second stealth from skill, nb can spam stealth and atack you as often as they want with the stealth bonus (ultil they run out of resources or you die, usualy you die unless you have strong healing support or you're a dk). Lets just say i got shot with a bow for 1.2k in a row (with a venom shot timed inbetween that also benefits from stealth bonus and died in less then 2 seconds) but you dont see me whine about nerfing nbs/bows or stealth. Ohh yes, i sit on 3k hps.

12-14 is on full magika with a warlock set, reduction set, reduction jewels, , light armour passives, magika pots. If i dont stack any of those then i can do 3 bolts tops on full magika. All of those cost reduction items are avaible to everyone else and all class skills are magika based, if you choose to spec for dps or whatever rather then magika reduction that is your problem, "gymp" yourself and go the magika reduction way and i promise you will find yourself being as trigger happy as any of those bolting sorcs.

P.S.: Mage light (using inner light morph) seems to be broken at times. I often find myself not being able to detect a stealthed enemy when sitting on top of them. That i can counter though by using pbaoe (pulse).

That is WRONG, mage light does counter the ability. I know I use it, you just have to be relatively close to the person you are trying to detect.

It never worked for me even while sitting on top of them but i can always use other tactics like aoe (caltrops works really nicely and has good area).

popatiberiuoneb18_ESO

Armitas wrote: »

NordJitsu wrote: »

Other abilities are just as spammable that I don't use. Hidden Blade, Poison Arrow, Burning Talons, you name it.

If anyone checks the nerf forums the same words keeps coming up "spamming". Without a GCD, which as far as I can tell is by intention, skills are spammed to an abusive point often without consequence. Bash, talons, bolt you name it the hate comes from the spam.

I think they need to implement a global source of spam reduction. If they don't want a GCD then they can add an exhaustion debuff. If you bash once fine, but if you bash again while under the debuff it will require a longer and longer charge up period. Same with bolt*, charges and talons. First bolt is immediate, second bolt while in the debuff will take a moment to charge up before activation.

That may not be the best solution, but I think I am right about the real problems being more from the spammability of skills rather than the skills themselves. Even if they individually fix talons, bash and bolt what will prevent the next spammable skill?

(* travel distance would need to be adjusted upward depending on the debuff timer)

You're onto something there and what you are sugesting is a progressing cd. I agree with you on the stupidity of no cool downs but the curent skill limitation active at a time (5+1 ultimate) will generate alot of problems if cds were implemented. They should redesign the whole sistem since its flawed beyound repair...but seeing as they cant even edit the tooltip texts...i have my doubts that will happen...

Mykah

NordJitsu wrote: »

Nijjion wrote: »

Mendoze wrote: »

Haha, I just couldn't resist anymore. So many of the complainers here are DKs? I mean really... I could understand if Nightblades, who have relatively low survivability, would complain that they can't kill sorcerers when they get the jump, but when a class with best DPS and CC makes demands, that sorcerers shouldn't have an escape ability from their talons and fires or doom, it's almost funny. And why is that you may ask?... wait wait, because no other class can do it. So if DKs can't kill one class, and some lucky sob gets away every now and then, that class needs a nerf. Just priceless .

Not 1 person has ever said get rid of the skill... they should be able to cast it couple of times but 12-14... That's way too much for what is intended in a RvR game... when no other class has even close to potential to get away from every fight, granted NB can spam stealth but that can be countered by mage light to my knowledge.

@Nijjion‌

You really just don't understand how this game was designed. The vast majority of skills can be spammed that many times if you gear properly for it. I can also Spam Impulse, Mages Fury, Combat Prayer, Volcanic Rune, ect.

Other abilities are just as spammable that I don't use. Hidden Blade, Poison Arrow, Burning Talons, you name it.

Even other escape abilities. NBs can spam Dark Cloak for Perma invisibility to walk around in enemy resources or through the middle of your zerg. They can also spam Path of Darkness to escape from any fight they want. BTW, since you don't have to spam it to literally move, but can wait a few seconds between casts (efficiency) Path of Darkness can be spammed like 18 times with a potion.

Dark Cloak is countered by Mage Light.

"They can also spam path of darkness to escape from any fight they want" Lol you are so full of s*** kiddo. Path of darkness is terrible for travel, what propaganda "spammed 18 times" (not going to hit 18 casts out of combat with a pot and still not as fast as mounted.)

I'm getting a better picture of you as a person now. You played a Bulls Rush 100b Haste warrior in GW2 for about a year and now think your amazing at Pvp. You rolled a Sorc main and still think your amazing at pvp. Wow was your first MMO and you joined it AFTER Tbc, never having played vanilla.

Tell me how close was I?

xDonMega

Give BE a 50% chance to disintegrate any target you pass through..

NordJitsu

xDonMega wrote: »

Give BE a 50% chance to disintegrate any target you pass through..

There we go. Now we're getting some reasonable balance suggestions.

Mendoze

NordJitsu wrote: »

xDonMega wrote: »

Give BE a 50% chance to disintegrate any target you pass through..

There we go. Now we're getting some reasonable balance suggestions.

I hope there's some item set to increase that chance, or it's not balanced enough.

popatiberiuoneb18_ESO

xDonMega wrote: »

Give BE a 50% chance to disintegrate any target you pass through..

Make it 80% and make it aoe disintegrate everyone in a 15+ radius and we have a deal.

Mendoze

popatiberiuoneb18_ESO wrote: »

xDonMega wrote: »

Give BE a 50% chance to disintegrate any target you pass through..

Make it 80% and make it aoe disintegrate everyone in a 15+ radius and we have a deal.

Sounds like a plan to me. Hopefully morph increases that radius to 30m, and mana cost probably should get lowered quite a bit, or level 10 sorcerers won't be able to spam it in PVP.

beravinprb19_ESO

NordJitsu wrote: »

Adding any kind of cool downs would instantly make me quit this game.

The reason I like it is the action combat. You can cast what you want, when you want, as the situation demands.

Its reactions rather than rotations and I love it.

People who complain about "spamming" can go back to their crappy stationary WoW combat.

That logic would apply if there was less cheese in the game. Do you know what happens in half the fights I take part in? Bash, bash, bash, bash, bash, bash, bash, bash.... That is not interesting, that is not skill based, that is simply a terrible excuse for PvP combat.

Syndy

Mendoze wrote: »

Nijjion wrote: »

Not 1 person has ever said get rid of the skill... they should be able to cast it couple of times but 12-14... That's way too much for what is intended in a RvR game... when no other class has even close to potential to get away from every fight, granted NB can spam stealth but that can be countered by mage light to my knowledge.

That sounds just fine to me, as long as all the charge/pull skills also require more stamina/mana or whatever. I mean, what's the point of burning half your mana to use one bolt escape, when your opponent can charge or pull you back all day long? So when all skills that can immediately teleport player take half of their stamina/mana, I'll support this proposition 100%.

EDIT: Also no other class can heal like templar, stealth like NB or CC like DK. So what is your point really?

Templar healing counter - heal debuffs
Stealth counter - magelight
DK CC counter - Immovable, Stamina use breakouts

bolt escape counter - ???

popatiberiuoneb18_ESO

Mendoze wrote: »

popatiberiuoneb18_ESO wrote: »

xDonMega wrote: »

Give BE a 50% chance to disintegrate any target you pass through..

Make it 80% and make it aoe disintegrate everyone in a 15+ radius and we have a deal.

Sounds like a plan to me. Hopefully morph increases that radius to 30m, and mana cost probably should get lowered quite a bit, or level 10 sorcerers won't be able to spam it in PVP.

My bad, my bad...didnt think of the lvl 10 sorc how about fully restoring hps/magika/stamina and adding a 50% damage reduction for the next 20 seconds or so when you kill someone using bolt escape? Should make it worth whining about

popatiberiuoneb18_ESO

beravinprb19_ESO wrote: »

NordJitsu wrote: »

Adding any kind of cool downs would instantly make me quit this game.

The reason I like it is the action combat. You can cast what you want, when you want, as the situation demands.

Its reactions rather than rotations and I love it.

People who complain about "spamming" can go back to their crappy stationary WoW combat.

That logic would apply if there was less cheese in the game. Do you know what happens in half the fights I take part in? Bash, bash, bash, bash, bash, bash, bash, bash.... That is not interesting, that is not skill based, that is a waste of my time.

I agree with both of you more or less.

An action based fighting sistem with no cds has the potential of being fun but ESO fighting sistem is far from perfect and it limits you to much on number of skills avaible, and preaty much forces you to equip those few BIS skills if you want to be competitive...well...and spam them...

IF it would let me use what i want when i want (as Nord implies) then i would have no quarrels against it.

And yes, a cd rotation is harder to master than smashing 1 button. Now if the fight was more dynamic, the positioning and reflexes, player reaction to environment played a bigger role..the fields would be more even.

Action combat has the potential of being great but ESO oversimplified it to much.

popatiberiuoneb18_ESO

f0rgiv3n27b14_ESO wrote: »

Mendoze wrote: »

Nijjion wrote: »

Not 1 person has ever said get rid of the skill... they should be able to cast it couple of times but 12-14... That's way too much for what is intended in a RvR game... when no other class has even close to potential to get away from every fight, granted NB can spam stealth but that can be countered by mage light to my knowledge.

That sounds just fine to me, as long as all the charge/pull skills also require more stamina/mana or whatever. I mean, what's the point of burning half your mana to use one bolt escape, when your opponent can charge or pull you back all day long? So when all skills that can immediately teleport player take half of their stamina/mana, I'll support this proposition 100%.

EDIT: Also no other class can heal like templar, stealth like NB or CC like DK. So what is your point really?

Templar healing counter - heal debuffs
Stealth counter - magelight
DK CC counter - Immovable, Stamina use breakouts

bolt escape counter - ???

heal debuffs/magelight? (sorcs get no heal debuffs but thats besides the point). Do you get any 100% heal debuff that im not aware off? or 100% detection on all stealthed enemies with mage light? no? i tought so...then why would you expect a 100% chance to catch up with any sorc that uses bolt escape?

Any gap closer (and/or hard cc), take your pick: chain pull from dk, charges from sword and shield and 2handed sword, shadow strike from nb are just few examples and i wont even go into how many ranged hard CC abilities there are.

Syndy

popatiberiuoneb18_ESO wrote: »

heal debuffs/magelight? (sorcs get no heal debuffs but thats besides the point). Do you get any 100% heal debuff that im not aware off? or 100% detection on all stealthed enemies with mage light? no? i tought so...then why would you expect a 100% chance to catch up with any sorc that uses bolt escape?

Any gap closer (and/or hard cc), take your pick: chain pull from dk, charges from sword and shield and 2handed sword, shadow strike from nb are just few examples and i wont even go into how many ranged hard CC abilities there are.

Sorcs get a 100% heal debuff (negate magic) but that's beside the point. This is not like WAR or Rift etc, where healers never run out of Magicka, after a few heals the templar will be oom.

And yes 100% detection on stealth/invisible enemies with mageligt, you just have to be relatively close. So, yes, thought so...

Also healing Templars are doing no dmg, so why are you worried about them... they just want to live so just /wave at them like the counter to Bolt escape.

I have already proven there are none in another thread... My points have yet to be proven wrong, because plain and simple, they can't be.

Immovable + bolt escape is not counterable.... Bolt Escape while holding Block is not counterable... Sorcs have no other use for stamina so they can keep Immovable up, never being hard CC'd.... Gap closers.... lol, they have a travel time, by the time they hit the sorc he has already cast it again and is 15m further away.

Your ranged hard CC'd can be countered by just choosing the correct morph. And even if you don't you still travel faster than most projectiles so by the time the ranged Hard CC hits you, you are 30+ meters away which is to far to cover the distance before the CC wears off. Or holding down block will negate the Hard CC incoming anyway while you are bolting.

The main issue is that Bolt Escape negates roots. Which give no immunity when broken out of.

Edit: If you think letting one sorc survive does not have an effect on the WAR in Cyrodiil you should probably get your head checked.... 1 person surviving can set up a Forward camp, or come back and rez. Totally negating the previous fight of killing everyone but the lone survivor... That is why escape abilities that cannot be countered are bad...

Luvsfuzzybunnies

Stop using logic and telling them the secrets to playing their class it wont do you any good. The ability will still in their eyes be fine and everyone who cant catch them is just doing it wrong.

Glurin

f0rgiv3n27b14_ESO wrote: »

Sorcs get a 100% heal debuff (negate magic) but that's beside the point.

It's also an ultimate and requires that it be charged up again for each cast, but that's beside the point.

f0rgiv3n27b14_ESO wrote: »

This is not like WAR or Rift etc, where healers never run out of Magicka, after a few heals the templar will be oom.

And after a few Crystal Shards, the sorcerer will be oom. Which, by the way, also means he can't use BE to run.

f0rgiv3n27b14_ESO wrote: »

And yes 100% detection on stealth/invisible enemies with mageligt, you just have to be relatively close. So, yes, thought so...

Kinda like saying "The tire's not flat. We just have to all lean to the right."

(I actually saw someone doing this on the interstate once by the way. I just about went into the gutter because I was laughing so hard.)

f0rgiv3n27b14_ESO wrote: »

Also healing Templars are doing no dmg, so why are you worried about them... they just want to live so just /wave at them like the counter to Bolt escape.

A healing Templar is still in the fight. A sorcerer that is running away is by definition no longer in the fight.

f0rgiv3n27b14_ESO wrote: »

(etc. etc.)

That's at least two slots dedicated to running away. Someone else in another thread managed to get all the way to four. In any case, you're still trading offensive power for defensive power, and still haven't managed to make it so the act of running away somehow give's that player an overpowering advantage.

f0rgiv3n27b14_ESO wrote: »

Edit: If you think letting one sorc survive does not have an effect on the WAR in Cyrodiil you should probably get your head checked.... 1 person surviving can set up a Forward camp, or come back and rez. Totally negating the previous fight of killing everyone but the lone survivor... That is why escape abilities that cannot be countered are bad...

So he set's up a forward camp. Someone else could just as easily do so. Not to mention it kind of sets off a big red flag on the map. Also, if he comes back and rezes everyone later, he must have a pretty good sized stash of grand soul gems laying around. Plus the time involved for him to do so.

ErilAq

the build you're descibing as OP is capable of nothing but running away. Let's say the sorc is running magelight, bolt escape, immovable, dark exchange, and bound armor. congratulations, you've just created a sorc that can run like a champ, and hit like a noodle. There's a trade off for doing that, ergo it's not OP. As to setting up forward camp, anyone can do it. Rezzing the group? you've already killed them once, plus the sheer amount of soul gems needed, and the time. People want it nerfed because they want the kill, and get annoyed that they can't get it 100% of the time. That does not mean the annoying ability is OP however.

Raggok

shield charge even bypasses the immunity and stuns all the time, as its bugged atm.

No, it doesn't.

Niffo

ErilAq wrote: »

the build you're descibing as OP is capable of nothing but running away. Let's say the sorc is running magelight, bolt escape, immovable, dark exchange, and bound armor. congratulations, you've just created a sorc that can run like a champ, and hit like a noodle. There's a trade off for doing that, ergo it's not OP. As to setting up forward camp, anyone can do it. Rezzing the group? you've already killed them once, plus the sheer amount of soul gems needed, and the time. People want it nerfed because they want the kill, and get annoyed that they can't get it 100% of the time. That does not mean the annoying ability is OP however.

I didn't know Sorcerers only had one hot bar, well then that changes things. This isn't about not getting the kill, its that one ability gives too much power and no other class can even come close to getting the same results with just one ability. The classes aren't unique, they can all do the same things just in different ways, Sorcerers are the only class that has the ability to escape or engage whenever they want.

Niffo

Glurin wrote: »

It's also an ultimate and requires that it be charged up again for each cast, but that's beside the point.

Its too bad Sorcerers don't have an ultimate cost reduction passive built into the class, oh wait they do.

Glurin wrote: »

And after a few Crystal Shards, the sorcerer will be oom. Which, by the way, also means he can't use BE to run.

You have more magicka management built into the class than a Templar does, your Crystal Shards will cost less to cast than any heals that are worth using than a Templar has.

Glurin wrote: »

A healing Templar is still in the fight. A sorcerer that is running away is by definition no longer in the fight.

A Sorcerer can restore their health/magicka and re-engage, a Templar can't and won't be able to disengage if the fight goes out of their favour.

Glurin wrote: »

That's at least two slots dedicated to running away. Someone else in another thread managed to get all the way to four. In any case, you're still trading offensive power for defensive power, and still haven't managed to make it so the act of running away somehow give's that player an overpowering advantage.

Two slots compared to entire builds centered around the chance of escaping. If you think the ability to get away and then re-engage being available to one class is not an overpowering advantage, you're probably playing the class that has the advantage.

Glurin wrote: »

So he set's up a forward camp. Someone else could just as easily do so. Not to mention it kind of sets off a big red flag on the map. Also, if he comes back and rezes everyone later, he must have a pretty good sized stash of grand soul gems laying around. Plus the time involved for him to do so.

No one else could do it just as easily, since no one has the escape that a Sorcerer does. Forward camps don't show up for the enemies, how do you not know this? Are you actually playing the game? After he rezzes someone they can then go and rez and those people that are rezzed can too start rezzing. Who are the people this Sorcerer is running with that won't help rez?

ErilAq

I'm saying that by wasting an entire bar on just being able to run away you completely destroy your damage dealing abilities. Not to mention that weapon swapping delays or is not received half the time. Also, you're saying it's not about the kill, but this entire thread is about how the sorcerer can run away, and to cover that up we stretch the facts about how the sorc can revive a group (which anyone can do) or how that 15m teleport magically negates every other classes 22m offensive ability by completely building a spec around running.

I might as well say Nerf a templar with a resto staff because he can heal too well. He built his spec around heals and sacrificed dps to do so. A sorc can spec to run away, but he severely nerfs his damage dealing potential. Let's not forget about stealth, any class can go into stealth and sneak into your freshly killed group. or set up a forward camp. You say it's not about the kill, but every point that's brought up can be countered or debunked, aside from the annoyance of not getting the kill.

Now, onto being able to engage and re-engage with impunity. I'm sorry, but that's a flat out lie. Aside from the running build (with the dps of a noodle) Bolt escape takes around 18-20% of a sorcs mana, which means he can use it 5-6 times max. Now if he uses it 3 times to get away, he can only use it 2 more times without being critically low on mana and near 0 mana regen, aka a sitting duck. Now if he pops dark exchange, that leaves him completely vulnerable and easily interrupted. You can use one offensive ability that every class has that has a greater range than bolt escape to counter it.

Mykah

BE is only OP in the hands of a Vr5+ sorc who can cast it over 10 times. For lower level sorcs casting it for 20% mana its perfectly balanced.
Also dark exchange can be used behind objects with impunity. This is fine for low level sorcs, if they used all their mana on 5 BEs and DE behind a tree, they still cant re-engage using more BEs because doing so would cost them all their mana. A VR sorc on the other can disengage using 5 BEs, DE behind an object, the re-engage with 5 BEs while still sitting on 60% mana and full HP, this is the issue.

There is no problem with low level sorcs BEing to avoid death and being OOM.
There is no problem with DE.
The problem is VR10 sorcs being able to disengage, DE, then re-engage over 75 meters and resetting any fight they choose with 60% mana and full HP, especialy considering how much mana they really have with set bonus recovery and pots..