Bolt escape - really?

ruzlb16_ESO

Gisgo wrote: »

I dunno... i wish as an NB i had the same opportunity to get out of a fight i didnt pick wisely.

Yeah, there's not a single skill on NB which can be used for escaping. Not like they can turn invisible, run for 3 seconds and then go into a discounted, high-speed stealth or anything...

This whole 'Bolt Escape is OP!!!!' thing is ridiculous. ANY class can get to a position where it can get into stealth and run from a combat; I've both done so and watched others do so. And really, overpowered running away? REALLY?!?!? The spell costs 20% of a sorc's mana (unless he's 49/0/0, in which case you just need to hit him with a wet paper bag to kill him) and nerfs his regen. Chain-casting it means the sorc is not combat effective unless he sits and channels Conversion. If he's chaining bolt escape, you beat him. He ran away. You are complaining that people are running away too well, and when people show you 8 different options for catching them, you complain about having to include ANY of those counters on your bar. To counter something. Like we have to do for anything else. And you honestly don't find this absurd?

Let's put this simply. You have 300+ skill points in this game. You are not meant to pick 5 skills from that and expect to be equally effective against literally everything. Different skill selections are useful for different situations, and some skill combinations are more effective against other skill combinations than others. This is exactly the same as the complaints about having to spend a point on Silver Bolts to counter vamps. "OP!!!! I have to swap ONE SKILL ON MY BAR to counter this build! I'm not able to play the game how I want to anymore!!!!"... Get real. You will not be effective in every situation with any set of skills.

You may as well be demanding forts be nerfed because melee can't hit people on the walls.

Chirru

scy22b14_ESO wrote: »

Bolt escape needs to be changed.


I don't possess the vocabulary necessary to articulate just how broken this skill is in it's current state. Sorcerer's abusing this skill are 100% unkillable. It's not uncommon to see a sorc spam this 5-7 times and go from in your face to beyond clipping range.

It should go without saying. This is a ridiculous ability in a true pvp setting. It needs to be changed. Percentage based magic cost would solve the issue.

Ah... and I wondered why everyone is re-rolling a Sorc. I come just now from Bleakrock Island and it is overrun with...Sorcerers... and no, they are not bots.
In a few days PvP will be inundated with sorcerers...the only viable class.

Well done everyone!!! PvP at its best. I wonder how long the Vampires will hold out against the Sorcs...oh...Vampire and Sorc. great idea.

Chirru

Zaldoras wrote: »

An ability that allows someone to run away is... OP? What?

No, everyone should have such ability.

Nijjion

Kingslayer wrote: »

Get away? Never get caught? You sir must be useless then i catch them all the time. It does not make them invincible at all. It is you who has no clue whatsoever. In an RvR type game their is more reason for it in large scale type combat if this was small scale pvp you may have a point but alas it ain't.

That's why I said if they had a clue... they must have been a bad Sorc.

bg22

Kewljag_66_ESO wrote: »

Having no problem with killing these sorcs, you just need some kind of CC on one of your bars.

You must be the best PvP'r ever. How do you keep the competent ones from insta-right-left clicking and teleporting off into the sunset?

I am not against escape skills at all, only escape skills that are effortless. Of all classes nightblade should have the hit and run capabilities. Which they do, and the skill is done correctly. It requires timing, and cunningness to effectively escape using "Shadowy Disguise". (And that's only when the skill actually works).

You can point your character in any direction with bolt escape, click the hot key with your forehead, and presto - you're gone. (I know I know, pressing a single key with your forehead requires a lot of talent)

scy22b14_ESO

Kingslayer wrote: »

Counters to Bolt escape Video


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5kfzJ1lNlU4[/quote


Now. Do those tests again, but this time don't play the sorcerer like you're missing a frontal lobe.

1. Shield charge, CC break, continue on your way.
2. Chain pull, continue on your way.
3. Dark talons, lol.


Honestly, proclaiming it longer and louder doesn't make it any more true. The only thing this video has proven is that sorcerer has no clue whatsoever.

Tintinabula

DKS should have chains slotted just for sorcs..I killed more tonight with chains than I can count.

popatiberiuoneb18_ESO

Aemesh23 wrote: »

problem with this skill is not the average player's usage: I see a lot of players using (or misusing as it happens) this skill to hop away from a fight when theyre in trouble. a lot of the time, they die, because its too late; one bolt, and they get slapped with a chain or knocked over etc. But on the higher end of the learning curve, a player can leap behind an enemy's los, kill one or two members of a group, and zip out of range before they're ever in danger. After the task is done, (and assuming they built for magicka and cost reduction) they're still rockin enough magicka to do it again in a minute. Not to mention they're probably at full stamina and thus still more mobile than the idiots who go sprinting to catch up. By the time they do get in range, said mage can turn back around and pick another one or two people off, or - should he feel like it - just teleport away again. I've watched this happen (groaning inwardly) to a keep raid group. Mage ports in. Kills a player. Burns two trebuchets. Ports out after getting shot once with a bow. Wait 40 seconds. Rinse. Repeat. One more ballista down, and one stupid dk. He finally died, not because he was bad, but because he accidentally ported away into a stealthed nb. Not before he'd killed 5 members of a 16 man raid, burned 4 siege weapons, and effectively bought time for his own guys to get inside the keep to defend.

My point is this; you can be as skilled as you want in another class; barring unusual bonuses (emp) and siege weapons (oil, ftw) you wont bring the kind of pain an intelligent sorc can so long as you can cast this spell 5 times reliably in an engagement and still have the magicka to spare for some destruction.

p.s. chain and other cc's won't have an effect if they can use their cc prot for 8 secs. that's more than enough time to zip out of range, and not necessary if they place themselves correctly during a hit and run - your chain/kd wont have the range to hit them unless they showed themselves before they strike, like a goof, or if they do it repeatedly from the same direction. Agreed, you might get a lucky one off if you have some foresight, but if they are as smart as you are (generally good to assume) then they won't get that close. (pps, i know it hurts, i still try sometimes, on the off chance that the sorc is a tool)

You are telling me that a sorc was able to kill 4 people from a raid group of 16 while not using a little more then half of its magika pool and you expect me to belive it? From that statement alone i can tell that you are full of **** or your raid was afk/clueless to begin with. I can only imagine a single scenario where that could happen, the sorc was emperor and in that case is the faulty emperor system to blame.

Tintinabula

I have run into countless groups of the enemy and threw down talons and then standard and they simply stand there and die. You would be amazed at the amount of ppl who think "I'm in a group...time for a sammich"

dennis.schmelzleb16_ESO

Bolt Escape = 15mtr.

DK: Fiery Gripe = 18/22mtr.
Templer: Piercing Javeling = 20mtr.
NB: Teleport Strike = 22mtr.
2H: Critical Charge = 22mtr.
S+B: Shield Charge = 22mtr.

Now you just have to train your reaction time a bit and stop whining.

Nijjion

dennis.schmelzleb16_ESO wrote: »

Bolt Escape = 15mtr.

DK: Fiery Gripe = 18/22mtr.
Templer: Piercing Javeling = 20mtr.
NB: Teleport Strike = 22mtr.
2H: Critical Charge = 22mtr.
S+B: Shield Charge = 22mtr.

Now you just have to train your reaction time a bit and stop whining.

All countered by 5 second immune timer... take the immune timer off and I'll stop 'whining'.

Edit: Also you are forgetting sorcs can blink twice by the time people break out of BE stun (makes it even more of a broken skill as the stun even goes off if I was behind the sorc)..... so it's 30mtr range.... oh look out of range.

Just lol at the video as well... Think if you're going to do a video on countering something use a competent player at least.... oh wait video would of been pointing out most of these points to counter would be void.

popatiberiuoneb18_ESO

Nijjion wrote: »

dennis.schmelzleb16_ESO wrote: »

Bolt Escape = 15mtr.

DK: Fiery Gripe = 18/22mtr.
Templer: Piercing Javeling = 20mtr.
NB: Teleport Strike = 22mtr.
2H: Critical Charge = 22mtr.
S+B: Shield Charge = 22mtr.

Now you just have to train your reaction time a bit and stop whining.

All countered by 5 second immune timer... take the immune timer off and I'll stop 'whining'.

Edit: Also you are forgetting sorcs can blink twice by the time people break out of BE stun (makes it even more of a broken skill as the stun even goes off if I was behind the sorc)..... so it's 30mtr range.... oh look out of range.

Just lol at the video as well... Think if you're going to do a video on countering something use a competent player at least.... oh wait video would of been pointing out most of these points to counter would be void.

Wait..you are telling me you cant teleport strike/critical charge, shield charge someone for 5 seconds after you did it in the first place? Thats new...

The only ability that would not "work" becouse of the immunity is the chain pull, the others work just fine, shield charge even bypasses the immunity and stuns all the time, as its bugged atm.

Aimelin

Nijjion wrote: »

dennis.schmelzleb16_ESO wrote: »

Bolt Escape = 15mtr.

DK: Fiery Gripe = 18/22mtr.
Templer: Piercing Javeling = 20mtr.
NB: Teleport Strike = 22mtr.
2H: Critical Charge = 22mtr.
S+B: Shield Charge = 22mtr.

Now you just have to train your reaction time a bit and stop whining.

All countered by 5 second immune timer... take the immune timer off and I'll stop 'whining'.

Edit: Also you are forgetting sorcs can blink twice by the time people break out of BE stun (makes it even more of a broken skill as the stun even goes off if I was behind the sorc)..... so it's 30mtr range.... oh look out of range.

Just lol at the video as well... Think if you're going to do a video on countering something use a competent player at least.... oh wait video would of been pointing out most of these points to counter would be void.

Yea, didn't know a skill gets disabled after you use it once .....

also if you don't want to get stunned by the streak morph of BE, BLOCK !!! it does wonders

Nijjion

popatiberiuoneb18_ESO wrote: »

Wait..you are telling me you cant teleport strike/critical charge, shield charge someone for 5 seconds after you did it in the first place? Thats new...

The only ability that would not "work" becouse of the immunity is the chain pull, the others work just fine, shield charge even bypasses the immunity and stuns all the time, as its bugged atm.

The CC doesn't work when the player has a 5 second immunity (actually uped to 7secs on test server)... but if you have ever played the game you will realise blink is an instant travel time when charge is movement that takes a little bit longer.

Here's how it plays out every fight;

Situation 1 (charge): Start fighting -> Sorc doesn't like the fight so blinks (Could end here as you are stunned, he gets 2nd blink and out of range) -> DK charges -> Sorc Blinks in mid charge -> You stop at the sorcs original spot and knock down the further ahead sorc (can't attack sorc as out of range as charge doesn't carry on to sorcs new position) -> Sorc gets up/breaks knockdown and you blinks / You charge him again but doesn't get knocked down again due to immunity -> As sorc had the range advantage before he is now out of range to charge again. ---- However if the sorc is bad and doesn't get this off cleanly you do catch up the 2nd time and you get him on the spot he just breaks again and stuns you and he gets out of range because 2 blinks means no targetted skills are in range to catch up.

(Not to forget a geared sorc can blink 14 times with a full magicka bar when charge is quite expensive on stamina and you also have to break a stun against a sorc which is most of your stam gone)

Situation 2 (pull): Start fighting -> Sorc blinks away -> Dk Pulls -> sorc breaks out -> blinks -> dk pulls but sorc is immune -> sorc blinks 2nd time and out of range.


My charge is working then... how do you bug it to make it knockdown every time?

Aimelin

Nijjion wrote: »

popatiberiuoneb18_ESO wrote: »

Wait..you are telling me you cant teleport strike/critical charge, shield charge someone for 5 seconds after you did it in the first place? Thats new...

The only ability that would not "work" becouse of the immunity is the chain pull, the others work just fine, shield charge even bypasses the immunity and stuns all the time, as its bugged atm.

The CC doesn't work when the player has a 5 second immunity (actually uped to 7secs on test server)... but if you have ever played the game you will realise blink is an instant travel time when charge is movement that takes a little bit longer.

Here's how it plays out every fight;

Situation 1 (charge): Start fighting -> Sorc doesn't like the fight so blinks (Could end here as you are stunned, he gets 2nd blink and out of range) -> DK charges -> Sorc Blinks in mid charge -> You stop at the sorcs original spot and knock down the further ahead sorc (can't attack sorc as out of range as charge doesn't carry on to sorcs new position) -> Sorc gets up/breaks knockdown and you blinks / You charge him again but doesn't get knocked down again due to immunity -> As sorc had the range advantage before he is now out of range to charge again. ---- However if the sorc is bad and doesn't get this off cleanly you do catch up the 2nd time and you get him on the spot he just breaks again and stuns you and he gets out of range because 2 blinks means no targetted skills are in range to catch up.

(Not to forget a geared sorc can blink 14 times with a full magicka bar when charge is quite expensive on stamina and you also have to break a stun against a sorc which is most of your stam gone)

Situation 2 (pull): Start fighting -> Sorc blinks away -> Dk Pulls -> sorc breaks out -> blinks -> dk pulls but sorc is immune -> sorc blinks 2nd time and out of range.


My charge is working then... how do you bug it to make it knockdown every time?

i take it you didn't see the video in this thread

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/96662/eso-fight-autopsy-invasion-vs-bolt-escape

yea, he surely gets out of range with BE spam ...

seriously you guys need to learn to time things better

if you actually did pvp & learned to time things better you'll see alot of people with gap closers actually catch sorcs .... happens to me more than i'd like, instead of getting on this nerf train, go pvp & practice timing the gap closers

popatiberiuoneb18_ESO

Nijjion wrote: »

popatiberiuoneb18_ESO wrote: »

Wait..you are telling me you cant teleport strike/critical charge, shield charge someone for 5 seconds after you did it in the first place? Thats new...

The only ability that would not "work" becouse of the immunity is the chain pull, the others work just fine, shield charge even bypasses the immunity and stuns all the time, as its bugged atm.

The CC doesn't work when the player has a 5 second immunity (actually uped to 7secs on test server)... but if you have ever played the game you will realise blink is an instant travel time when charge is movement that takes a little bit longer.

Here's how it plays out every fight;

Situation 1 (charge): Start fighting -> Sorc doesn't like the fight so blinks (Could end here as you are stunned, he gets 2nd blink and out of range) -> DK charges -> Sorc Blinks in mid charge -> You stop at the sorcs original spot and knock down the further ahead sorc (can't attack sorc as out of range as charge doesn't carry on to sorcs new position) -> Sorc gets up/breaks knockdown and you blinks / You charge him again but doesn't get knocked down again due to immunity -> As sorc had the range advantage before he is now out of range to charge again. ---- However if the sorc is bad and doesn't get this off cleanly you do catch up the 2nd time and you get him on the spot he just breaks again and stuns you and he gets out of range because 2 blinks means no targetted skills are in range to catch up.

(Not to forget a geared sorc can blink 14 times with a full magicka bar when charge is quite expensive on stamina and you also have to break a stun against a sorc which is most of your stam gone)

Situation 2 (pull): Start fighting -> Sorc blinks away -> Dk Pulls -> sorc breaks out -> blinks -> dk pulls but sorc is immune -> sorc blinks 2nd time and out of range.


My charge is working then... how do you bug it to make it knockdown every time?

Your scenario sounds plausible on paper but in RvR it wont happen like this. There is a delay between skills (the animation time as many call it). There is also the latency (breaking out of cc takes 2s+ for an EU player in a non zerg heavy environment, cant speak for the US players though). Also not sure what you mean by charge missing, mine always hits, if i charge a sorc or whatever, it will hit them even if they are miles away, as long as i managed to trigger it, and stun them, this actualy works in your favour, you can double charge the already stunned enemy.

A geared sorc can blink more like 10-11 times, depending if they are traited for magika reduction sets, enchants on jewels. A stamina based sorc with no cost reductions and no light armour will only blink 3 times before they are oom. Same can be said for a "fully geared" stamina build that is charging, i can charge all day long if i grab my 2hander with the right gear, tested both the shield and sword charge and the 2hander vs bolting sorcs and if they arent out of your reach (and you dont lag to death) you will catch up more then not. There are also ranged skills that...well...can be used when out of melee range.

Not sure how you bug the shield and sword charge. I noticed it always stuns me even if i have immunity so i tested it out myself and it completly ignores that immunity, you can chain stun as much as you please, hopefully it will get fixed, it gives the sword and shield users another unfair advantage besides the shield bash.

Nijjion

@Aimelin

Don't understand the video... sorc could of got away but chose to fight... actually working to my point.

Well I can only go from my and a lot of other peoples experiences that sorc blink actually stuns people while blocking... not sure how the guy in the video doesn't get stunned while blocking.

Stun is the main killer on BE and being able to spam it 10-14 times and then again while the charge costs a lot more while having to break stuns (which sorc uses magicka for their escape).

Slantasiam

so what you want is a do nothing sorc that just stands there and dies....show me even a good sorc player that can beat a poor dk or temp.....guess we wouldn't have to escape if we could fight. in books in movies the wizards are near god hood they stand on mountains and hurl fireballs at armys they throw average people around with the flick of a wrist and what you want is a peasant that has a good light show as he dies to every class out there...fine take bolt escape but then replace it with something I can destroy that annoying dk with that's chasing me everywhere.

Nijjion

popatiberiuoneb18_ESO wrote: »

Your scenario sounds plausible on paper but in RvR it wont happen like this. There is a delay between skills (the animation time as many call it). There is also the latency (breaking out of cc takes 2s+ for an EU player in a non zerg heavy environment, cant speak for the US players though). Also not sure what you mean by charge missing, mine always hits, if i charge a sorc or whatever, it will hit them even if they are miles away, as long as i managed to trigger it, and stun them, this actualy works in your favour, you can double charge the already stunned enemy.

Missing? Think you are confused but you said the answer to it in your post anyway that you don't charge up to their new position (technically missing in your term/thinking).

popatiberiuoneb18_ESO wrote: »

A geared sorc can blink more like 10-11 times, depending if they are traited for magika reduction sets, enchants on jewels.

actually been proven to be 12, 14 with potion.

popatiberiuoneb18_ESO wrote: »

A stamina based sorc with no cost reductions and no light armour will only blink 3 times before they are oom. Same can be said for a "fully geared" stamina build that is charging, i can charge all day long if i grab my 2hander with the right gear, tested both the shield and sword charge and the 2hander vs bolting sorcs and if they arent out of your reach (and you dont lag to death) you will catch up more then not. There are also ranged skills that...well...can be used when out of melee range.

Wrong thread about Stamina sorcs.

popatiberiuoneb18_ESO wrote: »

Not sure how you bug the shield and sword charge. I noticed it always stuns me even if i have immunity so i tested it out myself and it completly ignores that immunity, you can chain stun as much as you please, hopefully it will get fixed, it gives the sword and shield users another unfair advantage besides the shield bash.

Well it's either that or people can't be stunned during a blink but that can't be it, because they get hit the first time... they only resist the knockdown when they are immune which is what is supposed to happen. You tried spamming it on someone then and stuns every time? Wish that worked for me.... Why isn't there an outcry for perma stun then? Why the *** aren't people using this more if so? Doesn't make sense if what you are saying is true... unless you are BSing.

Mendoze

Haha, I just couldn't resist anymore. So many of the complainers here are DKs? I mean really... I could understand if Nightblades, who have relatively low survivability, would complain that they can't kill sorcerers when they get the jump, but when a class with best DPS and CC makes demands, that sorcerers shouldn't have an escape ability from their talons and fires or doom, it's almost funny. And why is that you may ask?... wait wait, because no other class can do it. So if DKs can't kill one class, and some lucky sob gets away every now and then, that class needs a nerf. Just priceless

Personally I very rarely even use BE, because it brings very little in the group play, and assault line speed buff is much better than solo escape skill. Nerf or no nerf, it does not really concern me. Although, if I could choose, I'd much rather have some group buff or talons like cc skill, than very situational escape skill.

Nijjion

Mendoze wrote: »

Haha, I just couldn't resist anymore. So many of the complainers here are DKs? I mean really... I could understand if Nightblades, who have relatively low survivability, would complain that they can't kill sorcerers when they get the jump, but when a class with best DPS and CC makes demands, that sorcerers shouldn't have an escape ability from their talons and fires or doom, it's almost funny. And why is that you may ask?... wait wait, because no other class can do it. So if DKs can't kill one class, and some lucky sob gets away every now and then, that class needs a nerf. Just priceless .

Not 1 person has ever said get rid of the skill... they should be able to cast it couple of times but 12-14... That's way too much for what is intended in a RvR game... when no other class has even close to potential to get away from every fight, granted NB can spam stealth but that can be countered by mage light to my knowledge.

popatiberiuoneb18_ESO

Nijjion wrote: »

popatiberiuoneb18_ESO wrote: »

Your scenario sounds plausible on paper but in RvR it wont happen like this. There is a delay between skills (the animation time as many call it). There is also the latency (breaking out of cc takes 2s+ for an EU player in a non zerg heavy environment, cant speak for the US players though). Also not sure what you mean by charge missing, mine always hits, if i charge a sorc or whatever, it will hit them even if they are miles away, as long as i managed to trigger it, and stun them, this actualy works in your favour, you can double charge the already stunned enemy.

Missing? Think you are confused but you said the answer to it in your post anyway that you don't charge up to their new position (technically missing in your term/thinking).

popatiberiuoneb18_ESO wrote: »

A geared sorc can blink more like 10-11 times, depending if they are traited for magika reduction sets, enchants on jewels.

actually been proven to be 12, 14 with potion.

popatiberiuoneb18_ESO wrote: »

A stamina based sorc with no cost reductions and no light armour will only blink 3 times before they are oom. Same can be said for a "fully geared" stamina build that is charging, i can charge all day long if i grab my 2hander with the right gear, tested both the shield and sword charge and the 2hander vs bolting sorcs and if they arent out of your reach (and you dont lag to death) you will catch up more then not. There are also ranged skills that...well...can be used when out of melee range.

Wrong thread about Stamina sorcs.

popatiberiuoneb18_ESO wrote: »

Not sure how you bug the shield and sword charge. I noticed it always stuns me even if i have immunity so i tested it out myself and it completly ignores that immunity, you can chain stun as much as you please, hopefully it will get fixed, it gives the sword and shield users another unfair advantage besides the shield bash.

Well it's either that or people can't be stunned during a blink but that can't be it, because they get hit the first time... they only resist the knockdown when they are immune which is what is supposed to happen. You tried spamming it on someone then and stuns every time? Wish that worked for me.... Why isn't there an outcry for perma stun then? Why the *** aren't people using this more if so? Doesn't make sense if what you are saying is true... unless you are BSing.

Yes, if person is bolting 2 times, then you have to charge more or less 2 times (charge has higher range of action then the 14m from BE). You travel to the location of the player when you hit charge and hit them regardless if they are olready bolted 1 more time (stun aswell). Charding 30+ meters away in 1 skill would be 2 op and render the sorc bolt escape useless vs anyone with a charge slotted.

The point about stamina sorc was to show that as the sorc specs into magika and reduction only to use BE so should the chaser, you cant expect to have a single skill to nullify/keep up with a sorc doing those 14 BE's that you're so sure about, i'd love if you could show me ingame how you can do 14 BE's in a row withouth stacking the dungeon gear bonuses with more people in same group, we are talking about a solo sorcerer after all not by one with group support.

About shield charge, yes, i had the problem where a person would shield charge me multiple times and stun every time even if i break out of cc. I took a sword and shield and tested it on a few players in real combat. It ignores the break out of cc immunity or so it did less then a week ago (~5 days ago). I also had a problem with people (in heavy armour), 2 times now, sprinting alot faster then any horse and simply outrunning me while i bolt away or run on my 60%+ speed horse with sprint, not sure where that comes from, would apreciate if anyone knows/shares. There were no visible effects so i can only guess it was rapid manuver plus something else.

You should really get out there and test any game mechanics theory in practice. So many are broken, its not even funny. I'd also suggest to make a lowbie sorc and play with BE a bit, you seem to be cerebral enough to find its weaknesses, might change your opinion, thats how i cured myself of the "DK is OP complex".

EDIT: NM about the 14 bolts, i can see how that would happen with pots and a warlock set. My bad.

popatiberiuoneb18_ESO

Nijjion wrote: »

Mendoze wrote: »

Haha, I just couldn't resist anymore. So many of the complainers here are DKs? I mean really... I could understand if Nightblades, who have relatively low survivability, would complain that they can't kill sorcerers when they get the jump, but when a class with best DPS and CC makes demands, that sorcerers shouldn't have an escape ability from their talons and fires or doom, it's almost funny. And why is that you may ask?... wait wait, because no other class can do it. So if DKs can't kill one class, and some lucky sob gets away every now and then, that class needs a nerf. Just priceless .

Not 1 person has ever said get rid of the skill... they should be able to cast it couple of times but 12-14... That's way too much for what is intended in a RvR game... when no other class has even close to potential to get away from every fight, granted NB can spam stealth but that can be countered by mage light to my knowledge.

Nope, mage light wont work vs 5 second stealth from skill, nb can spam stealth and atack you as often as they want with the stealth bonus (ultil they run out of resources or you die, usualy you die unless you have strong healing support or you're a dk). Lets just say i got shot with a bow for 1.2k in a row (with a venom shot timed inbetween that also benefits from stealth bonus and died in less then 2 seconds) but you dont see me whine about nerfing nbs/bows or stealth. Ohh yes, i sit on 3k hps.

12-14 is on full magika with a warlock set, reduction set, reduction jewels, , light armour passives, magika pots. If i dont stack any of those then i can do 3 bolts tops on full magika. All of those cost reduction items are avaible to everyone else and all class skills are magika based, if you choose to spec for dps or whatever rather then magika reduction that is your problem, "gymp" yourself and go the magika reduction way and i promise you will find yourself being as trigger happy as any of those bolting sorcs.

P.S.: Mage light (using inner light morph) seems to be broken at times. I often find myself not being able to detect a stealthed enemy when sitting on top of them. That i can counter though by using pbaoe (pulse).

Aimelin

Nijjion wrote: »

Mendoze wrote: »

Haha, I just couldn't resist anymore. So many of the complainers here are DKs? I mean really... I could understand if Nightblades, who have relatively low survivability, would complain that they can't kill sorcerers when they get the jump, but when a class with best DPS and CC makes demands, that sorcerers shouldn't have an escape ability from their talons and fires or doom, it's almost funny. And why is that you may ask?... wait wait, because no other class can do it. So if DKs can't kill one class, and some lucky sob gets away every now and then, that class needs a nerf. Just priceless .

Not 1 person has ever said get rid of the skill... they should be able to cast it couple of times but 12-14... That's way too much for what is intended in a RvR game... when no other class has even close to potential to get away from every fight, granted NB can spam stealth but that can be countered by mage light to my knowledge.

so you're either a DK or just following this nerf train. go spam bash some more while you can, and that standard of spam

Syndy

popatiberiuoneb18_ESO wrote: »

Nijjion wrote: »

Mendoze wrote: »

Haha, I just couldn't resist anymore. So many of the complainers here are DKs? I mean really... I could understand if Nightblades, who have relatively low survivability, would complain that they can't kill sorcerers when they get the jump, but when a class with best DPS and CC makes demands, that sorcerers shouldn't have an escape ability from their talons and fires or doom, it's almost funny. And why is that you may ask?... wait wait, because no other class can do it. So if DKs can't kill one class, and some lucky sob gets away every now and then, that class needs a nerf. Just priceless .

Not 1 person has ever said get rid of the skill... they should be able to cast it couple of times but 12-14... That's way too much for what is intended in a RvR game... when no other class has even close to potential to get away from every fight, granted NB can spam stealth but that can be countered by mage light to my knowledge.

Nope, mage light wont work vs 5 second stealth from skill, nb can spam stealth and atack you as often as they want with the stealth bonus (ultil they run out of resources or you die, usualy you die unless you have strong healing support or you're a dk). Lets just say i got shot with a bow for 1.2k in a row (with a venom shot timed inbetween that also benefits from stealth bonus and died in less then 2 seconds) but you dont see me whine about nerfing nbs/bows or stealth. Ohh yes, i sit on 3k hps.

12-14 is on full magika with a warlock set, reduction set, reduction jewels, , light armour passives, magika pots. If i dont stack any of those then i can do 3 bolts tops on full magika. All of those cost reduction items are avaible to everyone else and all class skills are magika based, if you choose to spec for dps or whatever rather then magika reduction that is your problem, "gymp" yourself and go the magika reduction way and i promise you will find yourself being as trigger happy as any of those bolting sorcs.

P.S.: Mage light (using inner light morph) seems to be broken at times. I often find myself not being able to detect a stealthed enemy when sitting on top of them. That i can counter though by using pbaoe (pulse).

That is WRONG, mage light does counter the ability. I know I use it, you just have to be relatively close to the person you are trying to detect.

NordJitsu

Nijjion wrote: »

Mendoze wrote: »

Haha, I just couldn't resist anymore. So many of the complainers here are DKs? I mean really... I could understand if Nightblades, who have relatively low survivability, would complain that they can't kill sorcerers when they get the jump, but when a class with best DPS and CC makes demands, that sorcerers shouldn't have an escape ability from their talons and fires or doom, it's almost funny. And why is that you may ask?... wait wait, because no other class can do it. So if DKs can't kill one class, and some lucky sob gets away every now and then, that class needs a nerf. Just priceless .

Not 1 person has ever said get rid of the skill... they should be able to cast it couple of times but 12-14... That's way too much for what is intended in a RvR game... when no other class has even close to potential to get away from every fight, granted NB can spam stealth but that can be countered by mage light to my knowledge.

@Nijjion‌

You really just don't understand how this game was designed. The vast majority of skills can be spammed that many times if you gear properly for it. I can also Spam Impulse, Mages Fury, Combat Prayer, Volcanic Rune, ect.

Other abilities are just as spammable that I don't use. Hidden Blade, Poison Arrow, Burning Talons, you name it.

Even other escape abilities. NBs can spam Dark Cloak for Perma invisibility to walk around in enemy resources or through the middle of your zerg. They can also spam Path of Darkness to escape from any fight they want. BTW, since you don't have to spam it to literally move, but can wait a few seconds between casts (efficiency) Path of Darkness can be spammed like 18 times with a potion.

Malmai

What is op that you don't know how to build against rangers ? Did you think he will stay there and not move so you can finish him ? This is not Skyrim guys neither Quake.

Armitas

NordJitsu wrote: »

Other abilities are just as spammable that I don't use. Hidden Blade, Poison Arrow, Burning Talons, you name it.

If anyone checks the nerf forums the same words keeps coming up "spamming". Without a GCD, which as far as I can tell is by intention, skills are spammed to an abusive point often without consequence. Bash, talons, bolt you name it the hate comes from the spam.

I think they need to implement a global source of spam reduction. If they don't want a GCD then they can add an exhaustion debuff. If you bash once fine, but if you bash again while under the debuff it will require a longer and longer charge up period. Same with bolt*, charges and talons. First bolt is immediate, second bolt while in the debuff will take a moment to charge up before activation.

That may not be the best solution, but I think I am right about the real problems being more from the spammability of skills rather than the skills themselves. Even if they individually fix talons, bash and bolt what will prevent the next spammable skill?

(* travel distance would need to be adjusted upward depending on the debuff timer)

NordJitsu

Adding any kind of cool downs would instantly make me quit this game.

The reason I like it is the action combat. You can cast what you want, when you want, as the situation demands.

Its reactions rather than rotations and I love it.

People who complain about "spamming" can go back to their crappy stationary WoW combat.

Armitas

NordJitsu wrote: »

Adding any kind of cool downs would instantly make me quit this game.

The reason I like it is the action combat. You can cast what you want, when you want, as the situation demands.

Its reactions rather than rotations and I love it.

People who complain about "spamming" can go back to their crappy stationary WoW combat.

I don't mean that it's a GCD but rather a progressive animation time. So a hypothetical, nondescript skill x takes 1 second of animation time. If used sequentially within a period of time it will take 1.2 seconds the second time and 1.6 seconds the third time. It just means its slower each time if used sequentially without any gap.

Knowing that is your response the same?

You say...

NordJitsu wrote: »

People who complain about "spamming" can go back to their crappy stationary WoW combat.

However at the end of your opening post on "Broken Talons in Dragon Knights Online" you say

1. Increase the cost of Dark Talons to make it less spammable.

I agree with you about broken talons but why is ok for you to complain about spammable skills but not others? Or am I missing a distinction? I forget what I say all the time. I am only trying to help you realize that you might be under some bias on this. We all have some bias about our toons, it's unavoidable.