Population shrinking, PLEASE do something

Elsonso

MISTFORMBZZZ wrote: »

JiubLeRepenti wrote: »

OnnuK wrote: »

Niliu wrote: »

These doom and gloom posts really need to stop, they're all factually inaccurate.

I wish you were right. (or are u trolling xd)

And here's a divisive thought: I believe that many people—especially on this forum—share some responsibility for the current situation. When someone points out that the game is at serious risk of fading away, we often hear the same individuals respond with, "Nah, the game isn’t dying," "Nah, the devs can’t do more; they’re doing a good job," "Nah, the game is still amazing," "Nah, everything's fine," or "Nah, I love the latest content."

I just feel like this forum is a nutshell of what's currently happening with Ubisoft and the 'toxic positivity' reported within their development team. You can’t express any complaints or reveal the true situation because they don’t want to hear it.

This is exactly whats always happening.

Even here in this thread you can read "its not dead, just join a guild" a few responses above.

I was like what the..

Well, the thing to keep in mind is that the graph above does not show a death spiral. A reduction, yes. Negative slope.

ZOS has an entire year where they did the same. It is not surprising that it is reflected in player numbers as people wander off due to ZOS not providing expected effort.

mitchtheelder

JiubLeRepenti wrote: »

OnnuK wrote: »

Niliu wrote: »

These doom and gloom posts really need to stop, they're all factually inaccurate.

I wish you were right. [snip]

Some people refuse to acknowledge this and continue to cope with the current state of the game.

StackonClown wrote: »

You all know ESO will end one day right?
Its a dying star which will go super nova we will all log in for the final farewell party

We're not asking ZOS to make ESO eternal; we simply want them to do their best to stop the decline and retain players before it's too late. Yet, we see no response from them. The content remains the same year after year. Just compare what we received in 2017 to what we have in 2024.

In 2017, we had:

1. A new class
2. An incredible feature (housing)
3. A new PvP feature (Battlegrounds)
4. An amazing chapter zone
5. An new zone with extension
6. A top-tier chapter trial
7. A second trial through extension
8. A new feature (transmutation)
9. And more.

In 2024, we haven't received even half of that. The reason is clear: ZOS is focusing on their next MMO at the expense of ESO, which is what many people are criticizing.

World of Warcraft proves that an MMO can remain vibrant and appealing even 20 years post-launch, but that requires significant investment in both time and money for new quality content, solid features, server improvements, graphics updates, etc.—rather than just feeding the Crown store.

Another point: I speak French, and between 2017 and 2021, we had substantial sponsored content in ESO featuring top-tier YouTubers and streamers who created sponsored videos for the game, attracting players from France, Belgium, Switzerland, etc. This included creators with millions of subscribers, like Bob Lennon and Krayn. Now, that has stopped. With the closure of the Bethesda France branch, we no longer see any marketing aimed at French-speaking communities. It’s worth noting that there are over 300 million French speakers worldwide.

And here's a divisive thought: I believe that many people—especially on this forum—share some responsibility for the current situation. When someone points out that the game is at serious risk of fading away, we often hear the same individuals respond with, "Nah, the game isn’t dying," "Nah, the devs can’t do more; they’re doing a good job," "Nah, the game is still amazing," "Nah, everything's fine," or "Nah, I love the latest content."

I just feel like this forum is a nutshell of what's currently happening with Ubisoft and the 'toxic positivity' reported within their development team. You can’t express any complaints or reveal the true situation because they don’t want to hear it.

One thing is 100% sure: I won't spend a minute on ZOS new MMO when I see how ESO was maintained for several years.

I dont think there is a more constructive on point review that urs! Great and everything u said its true. How many ppl actually play this new mmos not even a 1/10 of the good old ones.

[edited to remove quote]

Syldras

OnnuK wrote: »

While I'm not happy with the content reductions either, this looks to me like people joined during the Covid lockdowns and are slowly losing interest (or don't have enough time anymore?) since the lockdowns are over.

JiubLeRepenti

Syldras wrote: »

OnnuK wrote: »

While I'm not happy with the content reductions either, this looks to me like people joined during the Covid lockdowns and are slowly losing interest (or don't have enough time anymore?) since the lockdowns are over.

In my opinion, the big peak in 2020 was primarily due to the release of Greymoor, which attracted many Skyrim fans eager to explore Solitude and the rest of Western Skyrim.



Yes, COVID had an impact. However, if you compare it to another of the BIG THREE MMOs on Steam, FFXIV, you can see that it hasn’t experienced the same decline:

When you look at both the pre-COVID and post-COVID periods for each game, you can see that their dynamics are quite different. Additionally, it’s evident that ESO hasn’t seen a significant peak for a very long time, which raises questions about the ability of ESO chapters to attract back former players or draw in new ones.

nathamarath

I think population sinks because of the prohibition of teabagging. No sex, no pop.

Syldras

JiubLeRepenti wrote: »

In my opinion, the big peak in 2020 was primarily due to the release of Greymoor, which attracted many Skyrim fans eager to explore Solitude and the rest of Western Skyrim. (...)
Additionally, it’s evident that ESO hasn’t seen a significant peak for a very long time, which raises questions about the ability of ESO chapters to attract back former players or draw in new ones.

It will be interesting to see what happens if there's another chapter set in Skyrim - which will probably be the case soon (I think either Winterhold or the area around Whiterun and Riverwood). Although I suspect it might not have the same impact as Greymoor had. Some Skyrim players might have been attracted to ESO back then, but realized that ESO plays differently than the single player TES games and maybe decided it's not really for them. It's unlikely that those would return for a new Skyrim chapter. Same maybe for Morrowind fans, if we compare the impact of ESO's Morrowind chapter to Necrom. I guess after 10 years, there aren't many singleplayer TES fans left who have not been motivated to try ESO out yet (and then decide whether they stay here or whether it's not for them and they leave again).

That chapter content is decreasing, bugs remain unfixed and the writing quality hadn't been good for a while (although I think that it's getting slightly better again since Necrom) certainly also doesn't help. Also the fact that it's always the same formula with the chapters and rarely something surprising happens.

I think the general content reduction also did a damage. I knew a few people who played mainly for story content and only returned for chapter and the q4 story dlc once they had finished the base game quests. So they only logged in in summer for a while, until they had finished the new chapter, and then once again in winter for a week or two (and of course, people who play like that also don't need ESO+). And now only getting new content for 2 weeks a year every June made it even worse. That's also something that makes people lose interest altogether. And for people who are story-focussed, things like the Archive that don't have much story or lore aren't very interesting either.

Also I guess that the events kept people busy throughout the whole year when they were new. But as it's always the same quests (except for 1 or 2 new ones added, but that also only happened in the last few years after absolutely nothing had changed for years), people also have lost interest in that after the 1st or 2nd time.

Anifaas

ESO starts great with an awesome adventure but feels very stale at end game compared to the experiences common to other mmorpgs. Very static. Playing WoW right now makes returning to ESO feel like a chore because WoW keeps evolving and ESO stagnates. WoW feels very dynamic.

I'm done paying for ESO because:

1. Chapters don't feel substantial and follow the same formula with increasingly inconsequential stories as far as the franchise goes.
2. Most of the game can be completed with craftable gear or less. I don't even need P2W sets.
3. I don't care about in-game housing because I own nice homes IRL.
4. My crafting bag is loaded for years to come and earning gold is trivial.
5. Performance issues and outstanding bugs stretching back multiple chapters persist.
6. Warden/Nightblade/Necromancer nerfs/homogenization. Sorcs/DKs/Arcanist cheese.
7. Multiplayer is unpleasant in quality, variety and availability.

Sure, I'll login as long as I need to for the best login rewards and to occupy myself while WoW is down for maintenance if I'm not playing GW2. But before I spend another cent here, something needs to improve. I've got money to burn and will give it to whomever entertains me but unfortunately right now, ESO ain't it.

Stamicka

Yea whenever I’ve been on, ESO has been very quiet. The major cities feel a bit empty, queues take a long time to work, the in game group finder has almost no listings, and Grey Host isn’t even full for most of the day, despite having super low population caps. The trial leaderboards also seem to reflect a big lack of interest among endgame PvErs.

At this point, I’m just waiting for ZOS’ new MMO which seems to be a new IP altogether. Since ESO is an Elder Scrolls game, it attracted a lot of the solo questing crowd. At this point the game is developed as a solo questing game first and an MMO second, it’s just not working out. Most things in ESO don’t require a group at all and can be done solo. I think this is an intentional design choice since the developers know their audience. As a result, the game can feel very quiet and dead despite having a healthy amount of players. You probably just won’t run into a solo oriented player unless you’re in the zone that they are questing in, but there’s usually no reason to go out in the middle of a random zone.

ESO felt 10 times more alive to me in 2015-2018 than it does now. Think about it, one Cyrodiil
campaign in 2015 could probably hold as many as 5 or more Cyrodiil campaigns of today. Yet there was still a need for multiple Cyrodiil campaigns back then. This is a MASSIVE reduction in population size. Later on in 2016, it felt like there was a ton of up and coming trials guilds since a lot of people were trying to get the Maw skin. When dueling released in One Tamriel, you could go to Mournhold, Grahtwood, or Stormhaven and find people dueling in all 3 cities at once. None of this really
happens anymore.

Long story short, the types of players playing matters. To me the population has felt like it’s been in decline since Summerset or even before then. This probably isn’t factually true if we could see the numbers. ESO almost certainly has more players now than it did in 2015 or 2016. The difference is, the game back then had more of an MMO focus. As a result I think it attracted more PvPers and people that interested in group dungeons or trials. I think that these players have left in large numbers, while the games new focus on solo oriented players attracted a new and different kind of player. The game can have as many players as it wants, if they aren’t interested in the games MMO elements, you just won’t see them much.

I don’t think the shift to a solo oriented game would have happened if ESO wasn’t an Elder Scrolls game. It selected for those sorts of people with the title alone.

My big hope is that ZOS understands this and that their new MMO’s IP will allow them to design the game as an actual MMO and let the solo questers have ESO. A new MMO also means more modern technology, so we can be free some ESO’s 2007 technical limitations. I’ve heard about the new MMO since about 2018 so it’s been in development for quite some time now. I’m hoping to hear something soon. ESO is a lost cause for end gamers, I think the new game will probably be our best shot at the game we want.

Ocelot9x

Eso lost a big portion of their playerbase the moment they decided it was not worth investing in cyrodiil. If i want pve there are far better games (FF, WOW)-and the numbers adds up- but no other modern game have something like cyrodiil. Sadly we have now bland pve, sims house simulator and a card game (LOL) so 80% of the pvp pop moved on

Jaraal

Stamicka wrote: »

A new MMO also means more modern technology, so we can be free some ESO’s 2007 technical limitations. I’ve heard about the new MMO since about 2018 so it’s been in development for quite some time now. I’m hoping to hear something soon. ESO is a lost cause for end gamers, I think the new game will probably be our best shot at the game we want.

If this is true, then the new title will be launching with a game engine that is at least 7 years old at this point, and since we've heard zero about it so far, it's safe to say there may be a few more years of pre-release development to go. ESO launched with a 7 year old engine, and there were problems from the start. One Tamriel addressed some of those issues, but the performance aspect has been in steady decline since release.

The important thing to remember is that the same people who work on and manage this game are the same people who are currently running and will likely be supporting the new title in the future. It's not reasonable to think that things will be done any differently, or that the communication will be better, or that the chronic, persistent problems (stuck in combat, for example) will be addressed in a more timely fashion.

The fact of the matter is that most people will consider the Zenimax track record before thinking about how much time and money they will be willing to invest in more of their products. As it should be, and as it is with any consumable products on the market. Brand loyalty is important, and people's spending habits reflect that. So the question is, what legacy is Zenimax creating for themselves now, that will affect how people view their future offerings?

Dimorphos

After learning that zenimax is making a new mmo IP and even advertising it with a sentence like:

"We've learned a lot bringing the world of The Elder Scrolls to life, and it's time for us to take those lessons and build a new AAA IP"

Really only drives me to one conclusion: We are on life support mode and that explains pretty much every negative thing concerning this game and its current state and why the population seem to be disappearing even on PC side too. They are maintaining and developing ESO with barely minimum efforts and crew and I must say it truly feels like the crown store (their true gold mine) is the only thing that is getting some real attention. We are being used to fund their new project while getting only bread crumbs back. They are failing a big time with ESO and I think they know it and allow it. I am not saying ESO is dying or that they will end it completely, of course not. But we have joined the rest of the mmorpg genre graveyard titles and there we will remain. Unless someone there wakes up and decides to truly revive this game and fix its problems. But I fear it is too much to hope for. I only feel saddened and even angry because of all the real money and time too I invested in this game.

I wanted to enjoy ESO for a great many years to come but I found no other way than to get back in my old home Wow which even after 20 years can appreciate their fans and bring us something as bold and good content as the world soul multi-expansion storyline saga. The first part at least seems amazing and there is no doubt the other parts to follow will be too. And that is the road we will have with Wow for many years to enjoy now, knowing 100% what the plan is for the coming years. And the population in Wow is truly blooming again, not that it ever fell from its place as king of the mmorpg genre. Zenimax and other companies involved with ESO could learn a thing or two from blizzard.

Pelanora

WoW is so cartoony though. Can't play a game as if I'm 9.

Stamicka

Jaraal wrote: »

If this is true, then the new title will be launching with a game engine that is at least 7 years old at this point, and since we've heard zero about it so far, it's safe to say there may be a few more years of pre-release development to go. ESO launched with a 7 year old engine, and there were problems from the start. One Tamriel addressed some of those issues, but the performance aspect has been in steady decline since release.

This is kind of a doomer way to look at it. Any MMO you can think of spends a long time in development and by the time it releases, the technology used to make it will be a few years old. That much is true, but we are at the point with technology where tech leaps aren’t nearly as big. If you look at the technology of 2007 and compare it to the technology of 2014, there are some BIG changes and a lot of innovation that happened within that time frame.

Compare 2017 to 2024 in terms of technology. There hasn’t been nearly as much innovation and change as there was in 2007 to 2014.

Looking at phones as an example, the first iPhone released in 2007 and by 2014 the iPhone 6 released. Theres a huge amount of technological advancement between those two phones. In 2017 the iPhone X released, and this year we got the IPhone 16. We’ve seen small incremental improvements each year, but you can wait 5 or more years between phones now until you notice significant advancements. The same is true in all areas of tech. It’s much tougher to be left behind these days since we seem to be approaching a ceiling.

Jaraal wrote: »

The important thing to remember is that the same people who work on and manage this game are the same people who are currently running and will likely be supporting the new title in the future. It's not reasonable to think that things will be done any differently, or that the communication will be better, or that the chronic, persistent problems (stuck in combat, for example) will be addressed in a more timely fashion.

The fact of the matter is that most people will consider the Zenimax track record before thinking about how much time and money they will be willing to invest in more of their products. As it should be, and as it is with any consumable products on the market. Brand loyalty is important, and people's spending habits reflect that. So the question is, what legacy is Zenimax creating for themselves now, that will affect how people view their future offerings?

I believe people/companies/developers grow and learn from their mistakes sometimes. I don’t like the direction ESO has taken, but it’s mostly just because the game is more for solo Elder Scrolls fans rather than MMO players. ESO is in a unique and difficult position trying to make both crowds happy. I think it’s very reasonable to expect that ZOS as a company learned many valuable lessons from their development of ESO and will hopefully adjust accordingly. The game isn’t a failure by any means, it’s just not what I’m personally looking for. I think being away from the Elder Scrolls title will give them much more freedom.

ESO is still my most played game by far (even though I barely play), and here I am posting on its forums 9 years after starting. So clearly ZOS did something right or I wouldn’t care to be here.

method__01

abandon development of TESO and present new MMO that's not Elder Scroll game ? instant goodbye zos and tnx for fish

MISTFORMBZZZ

Stamicka wrote: »

My big hope is that ZOS understands this and that their new MMO’s IP will allow them to design the game as an actual MMO and let the solo questers have ESO.

I hope you dont seriously think they keep the costs of servers running for few solo questers.

I can guarantee to you, this will not be the case lol.

If the game goes more faster down then it is atm and if its spreading on more and more servers, i dont give it long.

Its already noticeable on all servers, on some more then on others.

PS EU and XBox EU kinda empty, just question of time for the other servers.

MISTFORMBZZZ

Stamicka wrote: »

Yea whenever I’ve been on, ESO has been very quiet. The major cities feel a bit empty, queues take a long time to work, the in game group finder has almost no listings, and Grey Host isn’t even full for most of the day, despite having super low population caps. The trial leaderboards also seem to reflect a big lack of interest among endgame PvErs.

At this point, I’m just waiting for ZOS’ new MMO which seems to be a new IP altogether. Since ESO is an Elder Scrolls game, it attracted a lot of the solo questing crowd. At this point the game is developed as a solo questing game first and an MMO second, it’s just not working out. Most things in ESO don’t require a group at all and can be done solo. I think this is an intentional design choice since the developers know their audience. As a result, the game can feel very quiet and dead despite having a healthy amount of players. You probably just won’t run into a solo oriented player unless you’re in the zone that they are questing in, but there’s usually no reason to go out in the middle of a random zone.

ESO felt 10 times more alive to me in 2015-2018 than it does now. Think about it, one Cyrodiil
campaign in 2015 could probably hold as many as 5 or more Cyrodiil campaigns of today. Yet there was still a need for multiple Cyrodiil campaigns back then. This is a MASSIVE reduction in population size. Later on in 2016, it felt like there was a ton of up and coming trials guilds since a lot of people were trying to get the Maw skin. When dueling released in One Tamriel, you could go to Mournhold, Grahtwood, or Stormhaven and find people dueling in all 3 cities at once. None of this really
happens anymore.

Long story short, the types of players playing matters. To me the population has felt like it’s been in decline since Summerset or even before then. This probably isn’t factually true if we could see the numbers. ESO almost certainly has more players now than it did in 2015 or 2016. The difference is, the game back then had more of an MMO focus. As a result I think it attracted more PvPers and people that interested in group dungeons or trials. I think that these players have left in large numbers, while the games new focus on solo oriented players attracted a new and different kind of player. The game can have as many players as it wants, if they aren’t interested in the games MMO elements, you just won’t see them much.

I don’t think the shift to a solo oriented game would have happened if ESO wasn’t an Elder Scrolls game. It selected for those sorts of people with the title alone.

My big hope is that ZOS understands this and that their new MMO’s IP will allow them to design the game as an actual MMO and let the solo questers have ESO. A new MMO also means more modern technology, so we can be free some ESO’s 2007 technical limitations. I’ve heard about the new MMO since about 2018 so it’s been in development for quite some time now. I’m hoping to hear something soon. ESO is a lost cause for end gamers, I think the new game will probably be our best shot at the game we want.

on the rest i agree with you^

AzuraFan

Stamicka wrote: »

At this point the game is developed as a solo questing game first and an MMO second, it’s just not working out. Most things in ESO don’t require a group at all and can be done solo.

That's kind of funny because I have the opposite perspective. It feels like I can do less solo now. I used to love hunting antiquities leads, but now a lot of leads are gated behind dungeon final bosses, trials, and getting far in the IA. So are a lot of other goodies. The PD group events are more difficult. The Bastion Nymic means grouping (I'm not good enough to solo it), so I haven't completed it once. The world events can't be soloed like dolmens and geysers can. Newer achievements often have group and solo stuff mixed together. As a result, there isn't as much for me to do solo. I certainly don't feel that ZOS is catering to me. If anything, I'd say that over the past year or two, I feel it has been more concerned with getting people to group.

TaSheen

AzuraFan wrote: »

Stamicka wrote: »

At this point the game is developed as a solo questing game first and an MMO second, it’s just not working out. Most things in ESO don’t require a group at all and can be done solo.

That's kind of funny because I have the opposite perspective. It feels like I can do less solo now. I used to love hunting antiquities leads, but now a lot of leads are gated behind dungeon final bosses, trials, and getting far in the IA. So are a lot of other goodies. The PD group events are more difficult. The Bastion Nymic means grouping (I'm not good enough to solo it), so I haven't completed it once. The world events can't be soloed like dolmens and geysers can. Newer achievements often have group and solo stuff mixed together. As a result, there isn't as much for me to do solo. I certainly don't feel that ZOS is catering to me. If anything, I'd say that over the past year or two, I feel it has been more concerned with getting people to group.

I agree. There's still stuff for me to do, all over the place. But since Galen, the content difficulty has been ramping up to the point where it's just annoying - and no, I'm not going to group to do it (especially since quest bosses are instanced). When it gets to the point I've done all the solo stuff I want to or can do, I'll just quit playing. I was done with grouping nearly a decade ago, and I'm not going back to that again.

Syldras

Stamicka wrote: »

Since ESO is an Elder Scrolls game, it attracted a lot of the solo questing crowd. At this point the game is developed as a solo questing game first and an MMO second, it’s just not working out.

For players who are completely focussed on questing and who have been playing for several years, there isn't much to do either with 40 hours (according to the official announcement) of new story content a year. Even for people who only have a few hours each evening, that's done in 2-3 weeks. Repeating old quests on alts was also ruined a bit by AwA.

spartaxoxo

Stafford197 wrote: »

But if we’ve learned anything from 2024, it is that games like Concord and Assassin’s Creed Shadows tell us all we need to know about the decision-making process. People in charge do not understand nor respect the audience.

In what has Assassin's Creed Shadows disrespected its audience? That game isn't even out yet.

spartaxoxo

manukartofanu wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

manukartofanu wrote: »

Interpreting the requests to fix bugs as demands for less content is quite a stretch, to say the least.

No. Not really. Many of these posts volunteered content as tribute unprompted by the developers and openly stated they'd rather have bug fixes than content. When they first announced they were cutting the content, a lot of us who said this was bad and bug fixing should be happening simultaneously were disagreed with and people said they'd rather have a more polished game than new content.

So, I think there was a pretty clear demand for devs to stop making so much new content and focus on fixing performance.

Well? With the passage of time, it can now be said with certainty that those people were insightful and foresaw that if the bugs weren't fixed, what has happened to the game now would eventually happen. You know what your problem is? You don't want to admit that resources are finite, and developers' time is limited. If it were possible to just snap your fingers and fix all the bugs while also releasing a large amount of content, it would have been done. But in reality, that will never happen, because sometimes there aren’t enough resources even to fix the bugs, even when you don't need to release any content at all. So, people chose a priority: to fix the bugs. Are they fixed? No. The game is in a terrible state right now.

Those people weren't right because it did not make any difference to performance.

And no. I don't think resources are infinite. But, if players don't demand both content and bug fixes at the same time, the end result is a dying game. No large game developer that I have ever seen cuts one for the other, unless they simply are working on the sequel or something else and thus scaling back development. Or if something is very wrong. Games need new content to make money and keep people engaged. They need bug fixes to ensure the game is performant because even people who want to stay and spend will leave if things don't work. All good live service games that are in good health have both.

And surprise surprise ESO's studio has a new AAA game in the works.

Stamicka

AzuraFan wrote: »

Stamicka wrote: »

At this point the game is developed as a solo questing game first and an MMO second, it’s just not working out. Most things in ESO don’t require a group at all and can be done solo.

That's kind of funny because I have the opposite perspective. It feels like I can do less solo now. I used to love hunting antiquities leads, but now a lot of leads are gated behind dungeon final bosses, trials, and getting far in the IA. So are a lot of other goodies. The PD group events are more difficult. The Bastion Nymic means grouping (I'm not good enough to solo it), so I haven't completed it once. The world events can't be soloed like dolmens and geysers can. Newer achievements often have group and solo stuff mixed together. As a result, there isn't as much for me to do solo. I certainly don't feel that ZOS is catering to me. If anything, I'd say that over the past year or two, I feel it has been more concerned with getting people to group.

TaSheen wrote: »

AzuraFan wrote: »

Stamicka wrote: »

At this point the game is developed as a solo questing game first and an MMO second, it’s just not working out. Most things in ESO don’t require a group at all and can be done solo.

That's kind of funny because I have the opposite perspective. It feels like I can do less solo now. I used to love hunting antiquities leads, but now a lot of leads are gated behind dungeon final bosses, trials, and getting far in the IA. So are a lot of other goodies. The PD group events are more difficult. The Bastion Nymic means grouping (I'm not good enough to solo it), so I haven't completed it once. The world events can't be soloed like dolmens and geysers can. Newer achievements often have group and solo stuff mixed together. As a result, there isn't as much for me to do solo. I certainly don't feel that ZOS is catering to me. If anything, I'd say that over the past year or two, I feel it has been more concerned with getting people to group.

I agree. There's still stuff for me to do, all over the place. But since Galen, the content difficulty has been ramping up to the point where it's just annoying - and no, I'm not going to group to do it (especially since quest bosses are instanced). When it gets to the point I've done all the solo stuff I want to or can do, I'll just quit playing. I was done with grouping nearly a decade ago, and I'm not going back to that again.

Yea you guys seem to be exactly who I’m talking about. You refuse to group in an MMO, but still seem to think that items should be handed to you.

Who do you think Companions were developed for? Cause it certainly wasn’t for people who would just group with another player. Also why do you think you find yourself on an MMORPG as someone who doesn’t want a multiplayer experience? Could it be because the game attracts you or is catered to you in some way or another?

It always shocks me that solo questers don’t seem to understand how much the game has been changed for them. Also somehow it’s never enough. I guess overland needs to be even easier, dungeons need a solo story mode, and enemies should just explode as soon as look at them.

I don’t know what else to tell you, but these posts demonstrate exactly what I mean. Theres such a ridiculous divide in the playerbase caused by the fact that this is an Elder Scrolls game and an MMO. I really hope ZOS’ new MMO appeals to me the way original ESO did and you guys can stay here and have the game be as easy as you want. They’ve already refused to make overland harder and I’ve just learned today that even now it’s too hard.

TaSheen

Stamicka wrote: »

AzuraFan wrote: »

Stamicka wrote: »

At this point the game is developed as a solo questing game first and an MMO second, it’s just not working out. Most things in ESO don’t require a group at all and can be done solo.

That's kind of funny because I have the opposite perspective. It feels like I can do less solo now. I used to love hunting antiquities leads, but now a lot of leads are gated behind dungeon final bosses, trials, and getting far in the IA. So are a lot of other goodies. The PD group events are more difficult. The Bastion Nymic means grouping (I'm not good enough to solo it), so I haven't completed it once. The world events can't be soloed like dolmens and geysers can. Newer achievements often have group and solo stuff mixed together. As a result, there isn't as much for me to do solo. I certainly don't feel that ZOS is catering to me. If anything, I'd say that over the past year or two, I feel it has been more concerned with getting people to group.

TaSheen wrote: »

AzuraFan wrote: »

Stamicka wrote: »

At this point the game is developed as a solo questing game first and an MMO second, it’s just not working out. Most things in ESO don’t require a group at all and can be done solo.

That's kind of funny because I have the opposite perspective. It feels like I can do less solo now. I used to love hunting antiquities leads, but now a lot of leads are gated behind dungeon final bosses, trials, and getting far in the IA. So are a lot of other goodies. The PD group events are more difficult. The Bastion Nymic means grouping (I'm not good enough to solo it), so I haven't completed it once. The world events can't be soloed like dolmens and geysers can. Newer achievements often have group and solo stuff mixed together. As a result, there isn't as much for me to do solo. I certainly don't feel that ZOS is catering to me. If anything, I'd say that over the past year or two, I feel it has been more concerned with getting people to group.

I agree. There's still stuff for me to do, all over the place. But since Galen, the content difficulty has been ramping up to the point where it's just annoying - and no, I'm not going to group to do it (especially since quest bosses are instanced). When it gets to the point I've done all the solo stuff I want to or can do, I'll just quit playing. I was done with grouping nearly a decade ago, and I'm not going back to that again.

Yea you guys seem to be exactly who I’m talking about. You refuse to group in an MMO, but still seem to think that items should be handed to you.

Who do you think Companions were developed for? Cause it certainly wasn’t for people who would just group with another player. Also why do you think you find yourself on an MMORPG as someone who doesn’t want a multiplayer experience? Could it be because the game attracts you or is catered to you in some way or another?

It always shocks me that solo questers don’t seem to understand how much the game has been changed for them. Also somehow it’s never enough. I guess overland needs to be even easier, dungeons need a solo story mode, and enemies should just explode as soon as look at them.

I don’t know what else to tell you, but these posts demonstrate exactly what I mean. Theres such a ridiculous divide in the playerbase caused by the fact that this is an Elder Scrolls game and an MMO. I really hope ZOS’ new MMO appeals to me the way original ESO did and you guys can stay here and have the game be as easy as you want. They’ve already refused to make overland harder and I’ve just learned today that even now it’s too hard.

I am not now nor have I EVER asked for anything to be handed to me. I play what I can, and get what rewards are available for what I play. I don't use companions because I DESPISE sidekicks. So logically, while I still have years of content I can and will play, at the point at which I have nothing left I'm capable of doing, I'll go elsewhere (probably back to Skyrim and Oblivion, because TES has been my game home since 1994, and nothing else really interests me game-wise).

The only reason the game attracted me was because friends indicated it was a really good solo experience AND it's set in The Elder Scrolls universe. I had left WoW and RIFT, and had no intentions of playing another mmo, but since Bethesda can't be bothered to release TES VI.... here I am.

You may be as snide as you like, but this game is very fun to play. I'm too old for this sort of fast paced combat, so I do as little as possible of that - and by the way, my lag is so awful (ping around 750 ms on a GOOD day) that I would never ask others to put up with that just to group with me.

Have a lovely day.

manukartofanu

spartaxoxo wrote: »

manukartofanu wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

manukartofanu wrote: »

Interpreting the requests to fix bugs as demands for less content is quite a stretch, to say the least.

No. Not really. Many of these posts volunteered content as tribute unprompted by the developers and openly stated they'd rather have bug fixes than content. When they first announced they were cutting the content, a lot of us who said this was bad and bug fixing should be happening simultaneously were disagreed with and people said they'd rather have a more polished game than new content.

So, I think there was a pretty clear demand for devs to stop making so much new content and focus on fixing performance.

Well? With the passage of time, it can now be said with certainty that those people were insightful and foresaw that if the bugs weren't fixed, what has happened to the game now would eventually happen. You know what your problem is? You don't want to admit that resources are finite, and developers' time is limited. If it were possible to just snap your fingers and fix all the bugs while also releasing a large amount of content, it would have been done. But in reality, that will never happen, because sometimes there aren’t enough resources even to fix the bugs, even when you don't need to release any content at all. So, people chose a priority: to fix the bugs. Are they fixed? No. The game is in a terrible state right now.

Those people weren't right because it did not make any difference to performance.

And no. I don't think resources are infinite. But, if players don't demand both content and bug fixes at the same time, the end result is a dying game. No large game developer that I have ever seen cuts one for the other, unless they simply are working on the sequel or something else and thus scaling back development. Or if something is very wrong. Games need new content to make money and keep people engaged. They need bug fixes to ensure the game is performant because even people who want to stay and spend will leave if things don't work. All good live service games that are in good health have both.

And surprise surprise ESO's studio has a new AAA game in the works.

Firstly, how do you know that it didn't happen? Have you lived in some parallel reality where ZOS didn't spend an entire year fixing bugs?
Secondly, two years ago, PC EU was better than it was four years ago, as far as I know.

Elsonso

AzuraFan wrote: »

Stamicka wrote: »

At this point the game is developed as a solo questing game first and an MMO second, it’s just not working out. Most things in ESO don’t require a group at all and can be done solo.

That's kind of funny because I have the opposite perspective. It feels like I can do less solo now. I used to love hunting antiquities leads, but now a lot of leads are gated behind dungeon final bosses, trials, and getting far in the IA. So are a lot of other goodies. The PD group events are more difficult. The Bastion Nymic means grouping (I'm not good enough to solo it), so I haven't completed it once. The world events can't be soloed like dolmens and geysers can. Newer achievements often have group and solo stuff mixed together. As a result, there isn't as much for me to do solo. I certainly don't feel that ZOS is catering to me. If anything, I'd say that over the past year or two, I feel it has been more concerned with getting people to group.

Yes. It feels like ZOS has decided they went too far down the Solo path and are back tracking.

MMO does not have to mean 'groups required', but ZOS has been putting shiny trinkets along the paths that lead to other players.

Pelanora

AzuraFan wrote: »

Stamicka wrote: »

At this point the game is developed as a solo questing game first and an MMO second, it’s just not working out. Most things in ESO don’t require a group at all and can be done solo.

That's kind of funny because I have the opposite perspective. It feels like I can do less solo now. I used to love hunting antiquities leads, but now a lot of leads are gated behind dungeon final bosses, trials, and getting far in the IA. So are a lot of other goodies. The PD group events are more difficult. The Bastion Nymic means grouping (I'm not good enough to solo it), so I haven't completed it once. The world events can't be soloed like dolmens and geysers can. Newer achievements often have group and solo stuff mixed together. As a result, there isn't as much for me to do solo. I certainly don't feel that ZOS is catering to me. If anything, I'd say that over the past year or two, I feel it has been more concerned with getting people to group.

This is how I feel too. I stare at the content I haven't done and have no idea if I'm going to manage to find a group to do it. Id rather have a group, but if that's increasingly unlikely then I wish companions could be directed to manage mechanics.

spartaxoxo

manukartofanu wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

manukartofanu wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

manukartofanu wrote: »

Interpreting the requests to fix bugs as demands for less content is quite a stretch, to say the least.

No. Not really. Many of these posts volunteered content as tribute unprompted by the developers and openly stated they'd rather have bug fixes than content. When they first announced they were cutting the content, a lot of us who said this was bad and bug fixing should be happening simultaneously were disagreed with and people said they'd rather have a more polished game than new content.

So, I think there was a pretty clear demand for devs to stop making so much new content and focus on fixing performance.

Well? With the passage of time, it can now be said with certainty that those people were insightful and foresaw that if the bugs weren't fixed, what has happened to the game now would eventually happen. You know what your problem is? You don't want to admit that resources are finite, and developers' time is limited. If it were possible to just snap your fingers and fix all the bugs while also releasing a large amount of content, it would have been done. But in reality, that will never happen, because sometimes there aren’t enough resources even to fix the bugs, even when you don't need to release any content at all. So, people chose a priority: to fix the bugs. Are they fixed? No. The game is in a terrible state right now.

Those people weren't right because it did not make any difference to performance.

And no. I don't think resources are infinite. But, if players don't demand both content and bug fixes at the same time, the end result is a dying game. No large game developer that I have ever seen cuts one for the other, unless they simply are working on the sequel or something else and thus scaling back development. Or if something is very wrong. Games need new content to make money and keep people engaged. They need bug fixes to ensure the game is performant because even people who want to stay and spend will leave if things don't work. All good live service games that are in good health have both.

And surprise surprise ESO's studio has a new AAA game in the works.

Firstly, how do you know that it didn't happen? Have you lived in some parallel reality where ZOS didn't spend an entire year fixing bugs?
Secondly, two years ago, PC EU was better than it was four years ago, as far as I know.

Because people still have the same issues with performance. Fixing Bastian's potions, while requested and very much appreciated, does not address the severe performance issues that makes PvP and to a lesser extent trials so frustrating.

Most of the improvements that have come about came after they replaced the old hardware. Which they ordered prior to the pandemic but had to wait to do because of the pandemic. So, that particular fix had nothing to do with the content cut.

AvalonRanger

I feel PC-NA population is still increasing.
Recently, server keeps kicking players frequently.

Franchise408

Daiyanae wrote: »

It use to be; I loved more things about this game than not, so I subscribed to ESO+ and played for years.

Then; Changes came along and I disliked more things than I loved, so I unsubscribed.

Finally; It became a grind and actually I was no longer happy playing, so I quit altogether.

And after more than a year, I've read forums and watched newest Youtubes, hoping to find again that game that I absolutely adored to no avail.

But I've found two games now, that I can love!

So, here's to a Happy Ending!

You're not alone, its the same here.

I wouldn't say I've quit altogether, but at best I log in maybe once or twice a month to do a trial with my guild. Outside of those 2 hours or so, I don't invest any time into ESO anymore.

I have something like 2500 hours all time in ESO, so I can't really complain too hard. A mixture of burnout and the game not going in a preferred direction anymore were all factors.

burglar

This game's progression has seemingly followed dark age of camelot's closely - which makes sense considering who the president of zenimax is! If it's anything to go off of, daoc's trials of atlantis expansion is a bit like greymoors, in that it added atifacts and epic armor that you assembled through pieces collected from raids, which had powerful buffs. The next expansion allowed you to subclass, or borrow abilities from other classes (gold road?), and they added champion weapons. The next expansion they added a new equipment slot. Development slowed after that, but it's still around.

tohopka_eso wrote: »

MISTFORMBZZZ wrote: »

StackonClown wrote: »

You all know ESO will end one day right?
Its a dying star which will go super nova we will all log in for the final farewell party

But is this now or can we extend it?

Feels like its now ngl. At least on PS EU.

Aside of that look at WoW.. 20 y?

I always see references to WoW. Try EverQuest it's older I still log into from time to time and there is still a following of that game

Those older games were given special attention, I think. I never played everquest, but I did play asherons call, which has since shut down. But, back then it seems games developed communities of people that didn't want to leave. Like, ultima online just celebrated it's 27th anniversary - oddly enough the guy who lead the production on that worked with zenimax's president on dark age of camelot. That company also made star wars: the old republic... all still around. It makes me think ESO will stay around for a long time, too - if leadership is anything to go off of.