Population shrinking, PLEASE do something

SkaiFaith · October 1

Been following this thread and while I previously said I could see it getting closed I now think if I was Zos I would be panicking and going to delete it.

Luckily I'm not Zos, so we are kindly given the possibility to keep giving feedback - I am seeing a lot of insightful content here! A bit entertaining even. Keep it coming so that your voice can be heard as we all hope

Warhawke_80 · October 1

So I was told that I have complaint's but no solutions....I sincerely apologize if I came across that way...so here are my solutions such as they are .....

Bring back the year long story...the game was packed when this was a thing

Fix the companion system....it's kinda useless and boring, I want to be able to use multiple companions as a straight NPC party or to mix and match with other players like FFXIV does...I would love for them to have banter with each other ( Heck make some of them not like each other) and deeper companion quest and for god sakes if Sharp loves to fish he should be able to fish with me.

Give us consequence's and use TES as a guide there should be cursed items in the world, if I do something not so smart there should be a price to pay....what's that I just desecrated someone's grave? or I just stole from a Nord Criminal mastermind? His lacky's should come after me

Give us stories that have some emotional impact....right now it's just go to point A...B...C if you ask the typical player what they do it's usually log in do dalies log out....that just isn't fun we should be participating in high fantasy stories that have stakes

ESO is more of a online RPG than a MMO ...and nothing that you do is going to make those who don't want to group....group and telling them to go away will mean the game closes, it's my experience that most people have one or two people they group with or they play solo....the devs should capitalize on that, I'm not suggesting they take away Trials or Dungeons but everyone should be able to participate in all content weather they group or not running a Trifecta or a Veteran Trial is it's own reward shutting out 95% of the community because this small base wants to feel special is ridiculous and ends up costing Zenimax money....I think multiple paths are the answer...folks who group never see those who don't...and I doubt seriously they will lose their minds just knowing that somewhere someone is running an Expansion Dungeon or Trial with a friend and a few NPC's....as I said before the game is 10 years old it's time to open the end game up to the masses.

Well that's just a few suggestions...oh sure I could talk about how the movement of the character's needs to be reworked or how the housing systems needs to be made more usable to us mere mortals...but that's small stuff.

Theist_VII · October 1

Warhawke_80 wrote: »

This is my last word on it....I know some folks will never see my point of view just like I'll never see theirs.

Yet the casual audience is leaving in droves.

Ever since the 30fps menus, performance has been feeling worse than normal, and people are not willing to wait for them to fix it, you can’t even quest proper without having your game freeze up for 5-10 seconds at a time, multiple times, and all for what? An inferior product? No wonder we’re all jumping ship.

Make no mistake, ESO is a game that began development around Oblivion, and it truly feels like it, why would anyone choose to play this over any of the other games coming out that just do it better?

Amottica · October 1

Pelanora wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

Pelanora wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

Pelanora wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

On Steam, the player count is back down to what it was in 2018. I think it was a bad idea to make Plus lack so much value by scrapping story zones. The story didn't need to be a year long. They could have told more self-contained things like Thieves Guild and Murkmire.

ESO+ value is only part of the story. Your point about the reduction in meaningful content, like story zones itself, is the reason for the decline. Some only buy DLCs, while others probably only subscribe to see the new DLC and then cancel.

The regular parlance of new content is the bread and butter of any MMORPG. It was an unusual business decision to cut back on developing new, meaningful content since it would have been clear it would reduce revenue and profits. Zenimax would have known this.

I think they think they can release 'systems' content regularly and players will go for that. New IA levels, and I guess on the new system under BGs they'll be able to release new maps. And new scribing things.

We like new zones but how many hours playtime they worth? Is I guess what they thought.

If they actually put Cyrodiil on a new system, and redesigned it, they'd be home. They could release iterations of all systems annually, and a story every 2? years.

They can do a lot of things. Playable PvE content is what has kept this game going and what spikes and keeps players' interest. We will stick around and do the same things over and over for only so ling. It is why the older zones are fairly empty outside of good trading locations and events.

Zenimax knows this, so it is a very calculated decision to add less to the game. QOL updates are not meaningful content and amount to less benefit when less players are spending money in the game.

An improvement in Cyrodiil is a pipe dream. They will not put a lot of effort into a zone that does not generate revenue directly when that same effort can require people to pony up some bucks.

I'm not sure of the logic here. Older zones are empty and noone wants to do same things over and over. So every new story zone they add is empty pretty quick. They must see that too.
So instead, they seem to be, because I'm not privy to their discussions, wanting to add systems they can iterate. Like the IA and like the new BGs.

Zos isnt going to invest in that, with years of effort going into them, if they're not convinced players play it, spend, and will spend, and will play it. I bet we get new BG maps regularly.

They just need to put Cyrodiil onto the same new system, they've built to go under IA and BGs.

I want story and big new story zones, but I'm not sure that's where they're heading. Because as you've said, it just doesn't last as a way to capture players. Run thru it in 15 hours and gone back to [insert game here].

But we won't know for sure until the next big reveal next year, I guess. Will that be an epic story with NEW features (or same old delves, dungeon, dailies, wb, natural/magic disaster of some kind, and 15 hours of story?)

That means every new zone fills up, which is a source of revenue. That revenue is generated by continuing ESO+ or selling DLCs directly. Revenue is a fundamental requirement for paying bills and generating revenue.

No one has to subscribe or buy a DLC to get a QOL improvement.

There is the dialectic of that logic.

The game needs new players. All the time. It isn't going to last on the same old 'I've played since beta' crowd.

Better new systems of constantly updating ways to play seems to be where they're heading to get those new players. Because if they believed/had the data selling zone stories brought in the cash, they wouldn't have dialed that back.

If this is the case, then Zenimax is failing based on the only metrics we have available. Steam charts give us data from those with ESO games linked to Steam, so it is limited. However, it is the best data we have, and it shows a significant decline in the average number of players when comparing this year over last year and the year before, which means they are losing a lot of existing players and not attracting many new ones.

If significantly fewer players are a way of increasing or sustaining revenue, then that is a very new way to run a business.

Syldras · October 1

Theist_VII wrote: »

Yet the casual audience is leaving in droves.

Of course some are leaving. What are they supposed to do if there's only 40 hours of new questing content a year (40 hours is the official number given by ZOS for a chapter), released at once every summer?

There had been claims that ESO had too much content, it would be overwhelming, people would never get everything done anyway - it don't think that's accurate. 40 hours are 2 weeks or so. Even if the game has 8 chapters, that's done in 4 months. Of course, there are also smaller dlc zones and the base game, so another few months can be added, but still, that's probably all finished in under a year. What then? What to do the whole year until the next chapter drops?

Not saying other parts of the game would be treated better. PvP is neglected, dungeon releases also have been reduced.

AzuraFan · October 1

Syldras wrote: »

There had been claims that ESO had too much content, it would be overwhelming, people would never get everything done anyway - it don't think that's accurate. 40 hours are 2 weeks or so. Even if the game has 8 chapters, that's done in 4 months. Of course, there are also smaller dlc zones and the base game, so another few months can be added, but still, that's probably all finished in under a year. What then? What to do the whole year until the next chapter drops?

As far as gamers who primarily quest go, ZOS shot themselves in the foot with AwA. It meant that some players (like me) who would have repeated the story content on alts now stick to only one character, so once that character has done the new zone, that's it. I keep myself busy with achievements and hunting lore books, but I have to admit that I've been asking myself lately why I keep logging in, when I have a Steam backlog of games to play and there are quite a few games coming out in the next year that I'm looking forward to (later today I'll start Starfield's latest DLC, and I've preordered a game coming out at the end of October, and there's one I want to play coming out in December, one in February, and the list goes on). I'm already spending more time playing other games than I do in ESO.

Elsonso · October 1

Theist_VII wrote: »

Ever since the 30fps menus, performance has been feeling worse than normal, and people are not willing to wait for them to fix it, you can’t even quest proper without having your game freeze up for 5-10 seconds at a time, multiple times, and all for what? An inferior product? No wonder we’re all jumping ship.

Uh. I don't have the problem where the game freezes up on my for 5-10 seconds while questing, or any overland content, on PC or XBox, NA or EU.

Syldras · October 1

AzuraFan wrote: »

As far as gamers who primarily quest go, ZOS shot themselves in the foot with AwA. It meant that some players (like me) who would have repeated the story content on alts now stick to only one character, so once that character has done the new zone, that's it. I keep myself busy with achievements and hunting lore books, but I have to admit that I've been asking myself lately why I keep logging in, when I have a Steam backlog of games to play and there are quite a few games coming out in the next year that I'm looking forward to (later today I'll start Starfield's latest DLC, and I've preordered a game coming out at the end of October, and there's one I want to play coming out in December, one in February, and the list goes on). I'm already spending more time playing other games than I do in ESO.

I'm also mainly a quester, even if I also do housing or solo dungeons or Archive sometimes. When I started playing in February 2016, I created two characters, one Dominion, one Pact, and chose which faction quests to play that day depending on my current mood. Then I created a new alt with every chapter release, mainly to see the new tutorial, but I was also planning to quest with them later. And I did, regularly. My character slots are full. But since AwA, I've only really been playing my main. If he's finished with everything (the end of the Dominion story is still missing), then I might switch to another character (I "have to" find me something to do after all), but honestly, with all achievements done, titles earned, and, most of all, a chaos on the map because all places already show as completed, it's not as much fun as it once was. AwA still remains the strangest decision to me, because without that, ZOS would have easily avoided the problem of empty zones as well as people complaining about having nothing to do. Not sure if they still have backup data from before... But probably it's too late anyway.

Elsonso · October 1

AzuraFan wrote: »

As far as gamers who primarily quest go, ZOS shot themselves in the foot with AwA. It meant that some players (like me) who would have repeated the story content on alts now stick to only one character, so once that character has done the new zone, that's it. I keep myself busy with achievements and hunting lore books, but I have to admit that I've been asking myself lately why I keep logging in, when I have a Steam backlog of games to play and there are quite a few games coming out in the next year that I'm looking forward to (later today I'll start Starfield's latest DLC, and I've preordered a game coming out at the end of October, and there's one I want to play coming out in December, one in February, and the list goes on). I'm already spending more time playing other games than I do in ESO.

ZOS got what ZOS needed with AwA. After that, scaled back a lot of my playing and deleted a lot of characters that became redundant. Now that they have also decided to also cut back on content, while not really taking QoL seriously, I find myself waiting to see what they are going to do in January. I expect 2025 to be a YAWN of epic proportions, but we'll see. It might be worse than that.

MISTFORMBZZZ · October 1

I can just tell you the game wich shall not be named is insanely full on all servers, while in eso my 500/500 guilds have 30 people online and in cyro are 1 bar each

AzuraFan · October 1

Syldras wrote: »

AwA still remains the strangest decision to me, because without that, ZOS would have easily avoided the problem of empty zones as well as people complaining about having nothing to do.

Absolutely. They took one of the best repeatable systems they had and dumped it. It would have kept lots of people doing WBs, public dungeon group events, delves, dungeons, and the zone storylines and quest hubs.

Syldras · October 1

Elsonso wrote: »

Now that they have also decided to also cut back on content, while not really taking QoL seriously, I find myself waiting to see what they are going to do in January. I expect 2025 to be a YAWN of epic proportions, but we'll see. It might be worse than that.

Whatever will be announced, it will be introduced with "customer feedback has shown us that..." (or "upon many requests" or something similar), possibly followed by some very strange interpretation, or the claim that people actually want less content because it was so complicated and overwhelming or whatever. Oh, and of course, everything is amazing, epic and wonderful. Not sure if it's cultural differences of some sorts, but those marketing speeches always feel strange to me.

When it comes to attempts to (re)increase player numbers, I can see them going for nostalgia bonus and bringing back Skyrim. I think continuing companion stories (including romance) will also happen sooner or later (while the reception is mixed in the forums, there seem to be many people on twitter who wait for that).

I don't really expect any innovation. Didn't they make a statement sometime this year that they had "found out what players want" within the last 10 years and now want to concentrate on making more of that? Sounded like they planned to give up new systems altogether and only add to the old ones: more card decks, more antiquities, more Archive enemies... You get it.

vsrs_au · October 1

Syldras wrote: »

Theist_VII wrote: »

Yet the casual audience is leaving in droves.

Of course some are leaving. What are they supposed to do if there's only 40 hours of new questing content a year (40 hours is the official number given by ZOS for a chapter), released at once every summer?

There had been claims that ESO had too much content, it would be overwhelming, people would never get everything done anyway - it don't think that's accurate. 40 hours are 2 weeks or so. Even if the game has 8 chapters, that's done in 4 months. Of course, there are also smaller dlc zones and the base game, so another few months can be added, but still, that's probably all finished in under a year. What then? What to do the whole year until the next chapter drops?

Not saying other parts of the game would be treated better. PvP is neglected, dungeon releases also have been reduced.

40 hours gaming is 2 weeks? That's not a very good generalisation. The amount of time people can spend gaming varies widely, depending on their real life commitments and their other leisure activities (which might include different games).

Syldras · October 1

vsrs_au wrote: »

40 hours gaming is 2 weeks? That's not a very good generalisation. The amount of time people can spend gaming varies widely, depending on their real life commitments and their other leisure activities (which might include different games).

It's a rough estimate. Of course there are people who only play 1 hour in the evening (I usually play 1-2, which I guess is below average by what I usually read), some might play 4 or 5, others are retired and play the whole day, and that's fine.

The claim that was made was that ESO had too much content and new players wouldn't be able to complete it anyway, because it's too much already - and I disagree with that. It someone truly wanted to complete it, it can be done. If it's 2 hours per evening, it's not 2 weeks for 40 hours, but 3. If someone plays 5 hours a day, it's only roughly 1 week. Even if someone plays about an hour per day and a bit more on the weekends and needs a whole month to complete a chapter, it's still done in maybe one year and a half or so. What then?

Rkindaleft · October 1

Syldras wrote: »

Elsonso wrote: »

Now that they have also decided to also cut back on content, while not really taking QoL seriously, I find myself waiting to see what they are going to do in January. I expect 2025 to be a YAWN of epic proportions, but we'll see. It might be worse than that.

Whatever will be announced, it will be introduced with "customer feedback has shown us that..." (or "upon many requests" or something similar), possibly followed by some very strange interpretation, or the claim that people actually want less content because it was so complicated and overwhelming or whatever. Oh, and of course, everything is amazing, epic and wonderful. Not sure if it's cultural differences of some sorts, but those marketing speeches always feel strange to me.

When it comes to attempts to (re)increase player numbers, I can see them going for nostalgia bonus and bringing back Skyrim. I think continuing companion stories (including romance) will also happen sooner or later (while the reception is mixed in the forums, there seem to be many people on twitter who wait for that).

I don't really expect any innovation. Didn't they make a statement sometime this year that they had "found out what players want" within the last 10 years and now want to concentrate on making more of that? Sounded like they planned to give up new systems altogether and only add to the old ones: more card decks, more antiquities, more Archive enemies... You get it.

ZOS should have known they would lose players as soon as they decided to dedicate entire updates to QoL and bug fixes. Most of the player base are overland questers with a significant number of them being cyclical. With only a single update that appeals to them (the chapter) that they finish within 2 weeks, there's not much incentive for them to log in for the other 50 weeks of the year.

To be honest, I was one of those people who thought it was okay at the time to do QoL and bug fixes with no content, except now, serious bugs aren't fixed and additional QoL is seriously lacking in depth - and feedback about QoL that people actually want goes unanswered.

For example, just the other day, I encountered a bug that's been around forever - the circle on last boss Castle Thorn still bugs out and doesn't move after 3 years of it being broken and literally hundreds of reports. It literally also can happen when you encounter the boss in infinite Archive which is less than a year old. Do these things not get tested?

Auldwulfe · October 1

I was going to post responses to some people, but honestly.... I am not making THAT many posts... so, all at once, and here we go.

One, Steam Charts are a VERY valid information source.... if you treat it like any poll or survey. No, you don't get every last little, itty bitty, down by the river, person with an opinion.... but you DO get a good, overall, subsection.... so, within a reasonable margin of error, say 3% or so.... you can consider it pretty accurate. I've had training as a data analyst, first working military intelligence, and as a market research analyst. As long as there is not a dramatic bias in the subset, you usually get a fairly decent picture... and Steam is pretty unbiased in who can get an account... and if you have an account, and you play the game, it shows.

Second, as both a casual player, and as someone who does join in PVP.....I see both sides.
The biggest issue here, is that they NEED to separate the two -- There is absolutely NOTHING wrong with a set performing a certain way, but has these changes under Battle Spirit, etc.

Make a decision on Cyrodiil... right now, it is a PVE sort of location, where there is a chance of PVP.... but the pop caps are so low, I can spend a day taking resources, and NEVER see an opponent player.... which is fine, if you want to get AP, but it also kind of destroys the whole need for the daily quests in the towns, as I can get, easily 4 to 6 times the AP from ONE resource in 4 minutes, as I get from a town quest, using the same amount of time....

Honestly, the last 4 or 5 times I have seen opposing faction players, they have ignored me and avoided conflict. One even messaged me to let me know he was going to wait for me to get my AP on the resource, and then change it back... and to just let him know if I wanted, we could work a circle on the castle, and take turns getting AP. So for the people that constantly complain that they are "forced" to do PVE for sets.... and complain against those that don't like PVP... it doesn't seem that PVP is as much a thing as you would want it to be.....
Now, I do respect it, and the players that enjoy it.... but we need to understand that it isn't as much a priority as some would hope.

Now, the elephant stomping the forums..... stop calling for nerfs....
You can go through multiple sections of this forum, and see thread after thread after thread, ad nauseum, of people calling for nerfs, and arguing with anyone who doesn't immediately agree that the person calling for that nerf is the font of all knowledge about the set, playstyle, or thinking, that they do not want in "their" game.....
What we SHOULD be doing is using those as learning experiences (trust me, MANY people gave me "learning experiences" in my early time in Cyrodiil) - look for counters, and discuss it openly. Get the REAL theory crafters going..... no, I am not saying every set is perfect, some DO need a rebalance, especially when a new class or other set is added, which creates a new dynamic... but we should look to counter and improve, first...
Instead, it feels more like a very loud group that only wants pillow fights and fluff.....

Many times it devolves to what appears to be a rabid selfishness on the part of the person screaming for the nerf.... this killed me in PVP, I need it taken away, and I am going to scream, stamp my feet, and hold my breath until I get what I want.....
Or, it's a perceived "fairness" thing..... "it's unfair that someone else built a character I don't think should be allowed to share space in MY game.... Make them STOP!!!"

My favorite one was the whole Oakensoul dilemma --- "I had to work with my two bars, beating buttons like an amphetamine soaked circus monkey... and they didn't .... I am upset that they don't have to do what I chose to do......"

Honestly, at the end of the day, what does it matter - they pay the same into the game that you do... and what is easy for you, might be difficult for them, so they utilize the tools they can, to make it fun for them.....
It does NOT hurt you in any way.....
I already hear the scream of "muh precious trifectas"..... sorry, that ship sailed when groups started selling carries for people.... Anyone that manages a couple of lucky hits while fishing, or harvesting, can get enough money to buy your trifecta... no time beating keys required......
I know a person who brags about getting one of the more sought after skins, for ONLY 3 million gold, which he got after selling 3 Aetherial Dust he got harvesting...

So, where do we go - one, we need flexibility... personally, I'd love to see scaling for dungeons.... many have mechanics that require specific numbers of people... Direfrost Keep requires at least 2 people, etc... Red Petal is 3, unless you don't do half the content (side bosses need 3 people) and so on.... Some people WANT the challenge of going with smaller than normal groups, or solo... so allow for scaling, when you go in, you get a scaled dungeon for solo, pair, or 4... with an option to run 6, and get extra adds, etc. I see it happen a LOT in my guild where we have too many for a dungeon, and too few for a trial, so everyone just solos, or logs.....

Second, we have both antiquities and the archive ... combine those....
You find a lead for a hidden dungeon on a dead mob, or in a chest, etc... make them VERY rare (at least, more rare than some of the antiquity leads).
And when found it leads to a doorway in a spot, where the game can have an instanced dungeon - even multiple types - green would be a delve size - blue a dungeon, etc....

Tie it to the Undaunted, as they claim to always be looking for new dungeons - you could even use layouts of current dungeons with either different mobs, or even a random reskin of the interior walls done procedurally ---
The doorway only appears when you have the lead map in your pack, much like surveys, treasure maps, and so on.... already a system in game... and once you run it, it is gone.... find another lead.
Now, comes the reward - just as we have "perfected" sets - revamp some of the overland sets to "Undaunted Improved" - basically update them a bit to make they viable in builds - and only those new dungeons drop them.

It would resemble the finding of rare "treasure maps" that were a big part of the replayability of Daggerfall - one of the classic TES games, and they would have the option of occasionally putting in specific items, or even event type items.... such as cosmetic style pages, etc.

We could also add in normal clothing style pages -- I would LOVE to have some characters wearing a normal tunic, pants and boots.....
And, unless the plan is to have waist styles be crown store only items, please give us an "invisible" style, like they did with the shoulders (hide waist), as so may style sets don't include one, and leaves you scrambling to find one that matches. Trust me, there would be a serious market for X Jack with smaller or no hip flaps, as a style page .... Variety would work very well, and using the style system can achieve a LOT of that, and would help with some retention of players.

In the end (and yes, I know it's a wall of text, sorry about that ) - we need variety, fairness... and not everything being a constant nerf fest .... it destroys any desire to get any set.. it's just going to get nerfed....
People feel that "why bother, I am not going to be allowed to get anywhere, and if I do, people will scream anyways" attitude among the base.... and if you claim you love the game, why would you constantly work so hard discouraging them from subscribing? Half the reason people have told me that they are leaving is that every time they work out a build that lets them get a feeling of accomplishment, someone starts screaming that they need to be nerfed... so they go to games that let them build and grow.

Auldwulfe

Hurbster · October 1

Actually, I think people were more concerned with the definite dip in storytelling quality that came with the year-long stories and really wanted longer stories told well over multiple expansions. I still don't think the Morrowind - Clockwork City - Summerset trio has yet to be beaten.

And (to my mind) anyway, it did seem to be that the later expansion was better than the 'main' one, for example, I thought Greymoor was pretty poor but Markath was pretty good. Same with Blackwood and Deadlands. Although High Isle and Firesong were (IMO) not up to the quality I would expect.

Bug fixes should be happening all the time, I don't think that we have seen the increase in quality that we were all looking for in Necrom and Gold Road which should be reflecting the fact that the devs have less work to do with no additional chapters. Also, the QoL stuff was less than inspiring, much like the upcoming pvp 'refresh'. Minimum effort all around.

It boils down to the same price but less content. ESO + is worth less now.

Syldras · October 2

Hurbster wrote: »

Actually, I think people were more concerned with the definite dip in storytelling quality that came with the year-long stories and really wanted longer stories told well over multiple expansions. I still don't think the Morrowind - Clockwork City - Summerset trio has yet to be beaten.

Certainly a story could be more complex if it has more time to develop - but just having more time is not a guarantee. If the writing quality is unsatisfying, it's unsatisfying no matter whether it's a 1-, 2- or 3-part story.

I don't think that time is the main factor when it comes to ESO. It's more the stories are often foreseeable and not exactly exciting (and cliché characters aren't exactly making it better either). Sometimes I'm wondering whether ZOS focusses so much on being agreeable for everyone that they don't dare to do something bold. In the end, it's always the same: Nothing big changes, no character dies (or at least no one the player character could have developed a liking for), and there's some happy ending and everything is just the way it had been before, without any dire consequences. But a captivating story usually needs a sense of threat and tragedy. Of course this may cause uncomfortable feelings in some moments, but without dark moments the light ones (like a happy ending) just don't shine, if it makes any sense? But lately, not even the npcs seem to be really bothered by the current "world-ending threat" anymore, if I consider how often I've heard silly jokes in situations that were supposed to be scary...

I really think one reason that the writing on the Morrowind - CWC - Summerset story arc was considered better by many players is that it actually had its tragic moments, with character deaths, etc.

Elsonso · October 2

Hurbster wrote: »

Bug fixes should be happening all the time, I don't think that we have seen the increase in quality that we were all looking for in Necrom and Gold Road which should be reflecting the fact that the devs have less work to do with no additional chapters. Also, the QoL stuff was less than inspiring, much like the upcoming pvp 'refresh'. Minimum effort all around.

One notable situation is that a portion of the development team seems to be missing. As you said, they are doing less work for Chapters, Zones, and Dungeons, but it is not being put into QoL and Bug Fixes. I hesitate to use "phone it in", but I guess I just did.

Theist_VII · October 2

Elsonso wrote: »

Theist_VII wrote: »

Ever since the 30fps menus, performance has been feeling worse than normal, and people are not willing to wait for them to fix it, you can’t even quest proper without having your game freeze up for 5-10 seconds at a time, multiple times, and all for what? An inferior product? No wonder we’re all jumping ship.

Uh. I don't have the problem where the game freezes up on my for 5-10 seconds while questing, or any overland content, on PC or XBox, NA or EU.

Yet there’s a 60+ page thread of others having the same experience, and every guild of mine is experiencing the same issue.

Pelanora · October 2

This thread is filled with so much sadness.

pklemming · October 2

The problem with them making a new AAA title, is it will be tarnished by what has previously done. The bad will generated in this game will make players less likely to join a new one. I know I, personally, will be highly reluctant to buy anything that ZoS has had a hand in going forward.

What they need to do is actually look after this game and, more importantly, the players. The game may still go into decline, but it will be less impactful on anything new they make.

As for Everquest, I played it from 1999 to 2013, and I loved the game and still do. I hear it has regular updates and patches, and has a strong core of people still playing it. Between my wife and I we had 12...14(?) accounts, I forget now. The only reason I don't go back, is so I don't tarnish all the old memories I had of it. Not having all my old friends there, the people we sat with in a corner of a dungeon for days on end, just chatting while waiting on spawns, will sadden me greatly.

It is kind of like going back and watching a favourite show of your childhood, only to notice all the cardboard backgrounds and wooden acting. Everquest remains the fondest of memories. Sadly, I will not have them from this game.

MISTFORMBZZZ · October 2

Pelanora wrote: »

This thread is filled with so much sadness.

Im sorry but this is the mood in the community about a game we LOVE.
We all take time to write here because we bother.

We shouldnt need to.

ZOS needs to react if they bother too!

Pelanora · October 2

MISTFORMBZZZ wrote: »

Pelanora wrote: »

This thread is filled with so much sadness.

Im sorry but this is the mood in the community about a game we LOVE.
We all take time to write here because we bother.

We shouldnt need to.

ZOS needs to react if they bother too!

I know. It was descriptive, that comment. Just noticing and commenting.

No need to be sorry.

Jaraal · October 2

AzuraFan wrote: »

Syldras wrote: »

AwA still remains the strangest decision to me, because without that, ZOS would have easily avoided the problem of empty zones as well as people complaining about having nothing to do.

Absolutely. They took one of the best repeatable systems they had and dumped it. It would have kept lots of people doing WBs, public dungeon group events, delves, dungeons, and the zone storylines and quest hubs.

100% agree with this. My personal game goal was to earn the Gray Host Emperor title on all 16 of my characters, but once AwA dropped, I lost all interest in achieving that, and stopped at 8. ZOS removed all my motivation for grinding any PvP or PvE titles and achievements for my alts once they started making the achievements conglomerate.

They sacrificed replayability for a card game. And I wonder how many people still actually play that on a daily basis.

spartaxoxo · October 2

Jaraal wrote: »

They sacrificed replayability for a card game. And I wonder how many people still actually play that on a daily basis.

No, they didn't. They sacrificed it for performance. The game already runs poorly. A lot has been cut for that.

WitchyKiki · October 2

All I'm going to say is that I love eso... but I'm being forced to just engage on the solo-play content, such as quests. Because everything else frustrates me, I used to be big on housing but in this economy, both in game and IRL... I just can't afford it. I can't believe it, ESO is becoming unaffordable.

moderatelyfatman · October 2

Jaraal wrote: »

AzuraFan wrote: »

Syldras wrote: »

AwA still remains the strangest decision to me, because without that, ZOS would have easily avoided the problem of empty zones as well as people complaining about having nothing to do.

Absolutely. They took one of the best repeatable systems they had and dumped it. It would have kept lots of people doing WBs, public dungeon group events, delves, dungeons, and the zone storylines and quest hubs.

100% agree with this. My personal game goal was to earn the Gray Host Emperor title on all 16 of my characters, but once AwA dropped, I lost all interest in achieving that, and stopped at 8. ZOS removed all my motivation for grinding any PvP or PvE titles and achievements for my alts once they started making the achievements conglomerate.

They sacrificed replayability for a card game. And I wonder how many people still actually play that on a daily basis.

Agreed. One of my fondest memories was hopping into Cyrodiil on a level 10 toon, attack some rando only for a short time later getting an achievement saying I had killed an emperor. With AwA gone, I can never have anything like this happen again.

Pelanora · October 2

It's me playing the game not my toons so I don't quite follow this Awa nostalgia.

But I celebrate your holding nice memories.

pklemming · October 2

Auldwulfe wrote: »

I was going to post responses to some people, but honestly.... I am not making THAT many posts... so, all at once, and here we go.

One, Steam Charts are a VERY valid information source.... if you treat it like any poll or survey. No, you don't get every last little, itty bitty, down by the river, person with an opinion.... but you DO get a good, overall, subsection.... so, within a reasonable margin of error, say 3% or so.... you can consider it pretty accurate. I've had training as a data analyst, first working military intelligence, and as a market research analyst. As long as there is not a dramatic bias in the subset, you usually get a fairly decent picture... and Steam is pretty unbiased in who can get an account... and if you have an account, and you play the game, it shows.

Second, as both a casual player, and as someone who does join in PVP.....I see both sides.
The biggest issue here, is that they NEED to separate the two -- There is absolutely NOTHING wrong with a set performing a certain way, but has these changes under Battle Spirit, etc.

Make a decision on Cyrodiil... right now, it is a PVE sort of location, where there is a chance of PVP.... but the pop caps are so low, I can spend a day taking resources, and NEVER see an opponent player.... which is fine, if you want to get AP, but it also kind of destroys the whole need for the daily quests in the towns, as I can get, easily 4 to 6 times the AP from ONE resource in 4 minutes, as I get from a town quest, using the same amount of time....

Honestly, the last 4 or 5 times I have seen opposing faction players, they have ignored me and avoided conflict. One even messaged me to let me know he was going to wait for me to get my AP on the resource, and then change it back... and to just let him know if I wanted, we could work a circle on the castle, and take turns getting AP. So for the people that constantly complain that they are "forced" to do PVE for sets.... and complain against those that don't like PVP... it doesn't seem that PVP is as much a thing as you would want it to be.....
Now, I do respect it, and the players that enjoy it.... but we need to understand that it isn't as much a priority as some would hope.

Now, the elephant stomping the forums..... stop calling for nerfs....
You can go through multiple sections of this forum, and see thread after thread after thread, ad nauseum, of people calling for nerfs, and arguing with anyone who doesn't immediately agree that the person calling for that nerf is the font of all knowledge about the set, playstyle, or thinking, that they do not want in "their" game.....
What we SHOULD be doing is using those as learning experiences (trust me, MANY people gave me "learning experiences" in my early time in Cyrodiil) - look for counters, and discuss it openly. Get the REAL theory crafters going..... no, I am not saying every set is perfect, some DO need a rebalance, especially when a new class or other set is added, which creates a new dynamic... but we should look to counter and improve, first...
Instead, it feels more like a very loud group that only wants pillow fights and fluff.....

Many times it devolves to what appears to be a rabid selfishness on the part of the person screaming for the nerf.... this killed me in PVP, I need it taken away, and I am going to scream, stamp my feet, and hold my breath until I get what I want.....
Or, it's a perceived "fairness" thing..... "it's unfair that someone else built a character I don't think should be allowed to share space in MY game.... Make them STOP!!!"

My favorite one was the whole Oakensoul dilemma --- "I had to work with my two bars, beating buttons like an amphetamine soaked circus monkey... and they didn't .... I am upset that they don't have to do what I chose to do......"

Honestly, at the end of the day, what does it matter - they pay the same into the game that you do... and what is easy for you, might be difficult for them, so they utilize the tools they can, to make it fun for them.....
It does NOT hurt you in any way.....
I already hear the scream of "muh precious trifectas"..... sorry, that ship sailed when groups started selling carries for people.... Anyone that manages a couple of lucky hits while fishing, or harvesting, can get enough money to buy your trifecta... no time beating keys required......
I know a person who brags about getting one of the more sought after skins, for ONLY 3 million gold, which he got after selling 3 Aetherial Dust he got harvesting...

So, where do we go - one, we need flexibility... personally, I'd love to see scaling for dungeons.... many have mechanics that require specific numbers of people... Direfrost Keep requires at least 2 people, etc... Red Petal is 3, unless you don't do half the content (side bosses need 3 people) and so on.... Some people WANT the challenge of going with smaller than normal groups, or solo... so allow for scaling, when you go in, you get a scaled dungeon for solo, pair, or 4... with an option to run 6, and get extra adds, etc. I see it happen a LOT in my guild where we have too many for a dungeon, and too few for a trial, so everyone just solos, or logs.....

Second, we have both antiquities and the archive ... combine those....
You find a lead for a hidden dungeon on a dead mob, or in a chest, etc... make them VERY rare (at least, more rare than some of the antiquity leads).
And when found it leads to a doorway in a spot, where the game can have an instanced dungeon - even multiple types - green would be a delve size - blue a dungeon, etc....

Tie it to the Undaunted, as they claim to always be looking for new dungeons - you could even use layouts of current dungeons with either different mobs, or even a random reskin of the interior walls done procedurally ---
The doorway only appears when you have the lead map in your pack, much like surveys, treasure maps, and so on.... already a system in game... and once you run it, it is gone.... find another lead.
Now, comes the reward - just as we have "perfected" sets - revamp some of the overland sets to "Undaunted Improved" - basically update them a bit to make they viable in builds - and only those new dungeons drop them.

It would resemble the finding of rare "treasure maps" that were a big part of the replayability of Daggerfall - one of the classic TES games, and they would have the option of occasionally putting in specific items, or even event type items.... such as cosmetic style pages, etc.

We could also add in normal clothing style pages -- I would LOVE to have some characters wearing a normal tunic, pants and boots.....
And, unless the plan is to have waist styles be crown store only items, please give us an "invisible" style, like they did with the shoulders (hide waist), as so may style sets don't include one, and leaves you scrambling to find one that matches. Trust me, there would be a serious market for X Jack with smaller or no hip flaps, as a style page .... Variety would work very well, and using the style system can achieve a LOT of that, and would help with some retention of players.

In the end (and yes, I know it's a wall of text, sorry about that ) - we need variety, fairness... and not everything being a constant nerf fest .... it destroys any desire to get any set.. it's just going to get nerfed....
People feel that "why bother, I am not going to be allowed to get anywhere, and if I do, people will scream anyways" attitude among the base.... and if you claim you love the game, why would you constantly work so hard discouraging them from subscribing? Half the reason people have told me that they are leaving is that every time they work out a build that lets them get a feeling of accomplishment, someone starts screaming that they need to be nerfed... so they go to games that let them build and grow.

Auldwulfe

The very frustrating thing was that they 'fixed' Direfrost Keep so you required two people. it used to be soloable. One of the more petty nerfs I have ever come across. How was us being able to solo Direfrost anything game breaking?There are lots of other dungeons we can solo, but this one was changed so we specifically could no longer do that.