Population shrinking, PLEASE do something

AzuraFan

Stamicka wrote: »

Yea you guys seem to be exactly who I’m talking about. You refuse to group in an MMO, but still seem to think that items should be handed to you.

Nobody expects anything to be handed to them. We just want stuff to DO. And some of the stuff we used to be able to do has been made more difficult to solo, leaving us with less to do.

And for the record, solo does not equate to easy and grouping does not equate to hard. It's often way more difficult to solo something, whereas doing the same thing as a group is easy. Often the only difficult thing about doing group content is finding a group to do it.

I always have an easier time of things in a group (yes, I do group occasionally!), whereas it takes me much longer to do the same content solo, or I just can't do it. And trust me, after having run with a lot of pugs lately, some players who group couldn't solo even the easiest dungeon if the game literally swooped them right to the exit and handed them the loot, but by grouping, they get the achievements and the leads and all that. Which is fine! Just don't tell me that players who group work hard for everything they get, and players who do stuff solo get everything handed to them. Grouping to do something means diddlysquat in terms of difficulty.

Warhawke_80

Stamicka wrote: »
Yea you guys seem to be exactly who I’m talking about. You refuse to group in an MMO, but still seem to think that items should be handed to you.

I for one love to be insulted and told what I'm all about by a complete stranger.....

No one wants anything handed to them what they do want is our playstyle to have as much to offer as the playstyle that caters to the 2%...because if you add up all the casual money, it is a whole heck of a lot more than those few people who run the same five trials over and over again all while thinking they're some sort of elite player.

Since 2014 we have been publicly insulted by the hard core players... content creators have made bank on it....and we can't say anything back or else, because the devs are heavy into PVP and Raiding, ESO has more casual players than any other type that is FACT More people don't group than group that is also a FACT

They want us to support the game, but I for one don't see support of the casual community....that needs to change.

Largomets

Elsonso wrote: »

AzuraFan wrote: »

Stamicka wrote: »

At this point the game is developed as a solo questing game first and an MMO second, it’s just not working out. Most things in ESO don’t require a group at all and can be done solo.

That's kind of funny because I have the opposite perspective. It feels like I can do less solo now. I used to love hunting antiquities leads, but now a lot of leads are gated behind dungeon final bosses, trials, and getting far in the IA. So are a lot of other goodies. The PD group events are more difficult. The Bastion Nymic means grouping (I'm not good enough to solo it), so I haven't completed it once. The world events can't be soloed like dolmens and geysers can. Newer achievements often have group and solo stuff mixed together. As a result, there isn't as much for me to do solo. I certainly don't feel that ZOS is catering to me. If anything, I'd say that over the past year or two, I feel it has been more concerned with getting people to group.

Yes. It feels like ZOS has decided they went too far down the Solo path and are back tracking.

MMO does not have to mean 'groups required', but ZOS has been putting shiny trinkets along the paths that lead to other players.

I mean, I'm glad that more modern MMOs include a lot of solo content for the people that enjoy that, but MMO literally stands for "massively multiplayer online." It is, by the very definition of the genre, just just a multiplayer game, but MASSIVELY multiplayer.

The early MMOs has HUGE groups/raids, with Everquest's raid tool being for 72 person raids, and the community felt that was a "cap" since before the raid tool, raids would sometimes have over 100 players in them. And that's just PVE, DAoC and TESO at launch had HUNDREDS of players per side in PVP. Cyro today is such a far cry from what it was at launch with the endless pop caps.

Honestly, what is happening to TESO is so sad. One of the most popular franchises of all time, and it gets so little love in content. At most 1 trial per year, at most 4 dungeons per year, at most 2 zones (and lately 1 zone) for questing per year, and many years in a row with no PVP content. For the title recognition of TES, I would expect a minimum of 3+ trials per year, not counting several dungeons per year, 3+ PVE zones per year, at least 1 PVP update per year, and then one "innovative" update per year.

The problem is not that zos makes x content or y content, it's that it makes too little content. A household name like TES should have so much content of ALL types that they court ALL types of players, because whether you like PVP, PVE solo, PVE group, PVE end game, etc etc there's always a year's worth of content for you every year. Other MMOs do this, it's wild that TES does not.

Of course, the bugs do not help. The community even got to a point where people were saying "we'll literally let you take a quarter off of new content if you spend that time fixing the bugs," and then when ZOS did that, they did not actually improve performance or fix all the bugs, and then they made it an annual tradition instead of a one time thing. So we still have bugs, we still have server issues, and now we lose a quarter of updates per year when they haven't had a "good" year of content upgrades since 2017 in the first place.

CatoUnchained

Warhawke_80 wrote: »

Stamicka wrote: »
Yea you guys seem to be exactly who I’m talking about. You refuse to group in an MMO, but still seem to think that items should be handed to you.

I for one love to be insulted and told what I'm all about by a complete stranger.....

No one wants anything handed to them what they do want is our playstyle to have as much to offer as the playstyle that caters to the 2%...because if you add up all the casual money, it is a whole heck of a lot more than those few people who run the same five trials over and over again all while thinking they're some sort of elite player.

Since 2014 we have been publicly insulted by the hard core players... content creators have made bank on it....and we can't say anything back or else, because the devs are heavy into PVP and Raiding, ESO has more casual players than any other type that is FACT More people don't group than group that is also a FACT

They want us to support the game, but I for one don't see support of the casual community....that needs to change.

Are you talking about ESO? ....a game who's PvP hasn't seen any support or upgrades in over 5 years? We learned during the last live stream that even Brian Wheeler, ESO's PvP/combat dev very rarely even spends time in Cyrodiil. Meanwhile, essentially every update and addition to ESO since 2018 has been PvE/casual focused.

So again I have to ask, are you talking about ESO?

Rkindaleft

AvalonRanger wrote: »

I feel PC-NA population is still increasing.
Recently, server keeps kicking players frequently.

I can tell you right now that this has nothing to do with the population and everything to do with the performance.

Amottica

Pelanora wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

On Steam, the player count is back down to what it was in 2018. I think it was a bad idea to make Plus lack so much value by scrapping story zones. The story didn't need to be a year long. They could have told more self-contained things like Thieves Guild and Murkmire.

ESO+ value is only part of the story. Your point about the reduction in meaningful content, like story zones itself, is the reason for the decline. Some only buy DLCs, while others probably only subscribe to see the new DLC and then cancel.

The regular parlance of new content is the bread and butter of any MMORPG. It was an unusual business decision to cut back on developing new, meaningful content since it would have been clear it would reduce revenue and profits. Zenimax would have known this.

I think they think they can release 'systems' content regularly and players will go for that. New IA levels, and I guess on the new system under BGs they'll be able to release new maps. And new scribing things.

We like new zones but how many hours playtime they worth? Is I guess what they thought.

If they actually put Cyrodiil on a new system, and redesigned it, they'd be home. They could release iterations of all systems annually, and a story every 2? years.

They can do a lot of things. Playable PvE content is what has kept this game going and what spikes and keeps players' interest. We will stick around and do the same things over and over for only so ling. It is why the older zones are fairly empty outside of good trading locations and events.

Zenimax knows this, so it is a very calculated decision to add less to the game. QOL updates are not meaningful content and amount to less benefit when less players are spending money in the game.

An improvement in Cyrodiil is a pipe dream. They will not put a lot of effort into a zone that does not generate revenue directly when that same effort can require people to pony up some bucks.

Pelanora

Amottica wrote: »

Pelanora wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

On Steam, the player count is back down to what it was in 2018. I think it was a bad idea to make Plus lack so much value by scrapping story zones. The story didn't need to be a year long. They could have told more self-contained things like Thieves Guild and Murkmire.

ESO+ value is only part of the story. Your point about the reduction in meaningful content, like story zones itself, is the reason for the decline. Some only buy DLCs, while others probably only subscribe to see the new DLC and then cancel.

The regular parlance of new content is the bread and butter of any MMORPG. It was an unusual business decision to cut back on developing new, meaningful content since it would have been clear it would reduce revenue and profits. Zenimax would have known this.

I think they think they can release 'systems' content regularly and players will go for that. New IA levels, and I guess on the new system under BGs they'll be able to release new maps. And new scribing things.

We like new zones but how many hours playtime they worth? Is I guess what they thought.

If they actually put Cyrodiil on a new system, and redesigned it, they'd be home. They could release iterations of all systems annually, and a story every 2? years.

They can do a lot of things. Playable PvE content is what has kept this game going and what spikes and keeps players' interest. We will stick around and do the same things over and over for only so ling. It is why the older zones are fairly empty outside of good trading locations and events.

Zenimax knows this, so it is a very calculated decision to add less to the game. QOL updates are not meaningful content and amount to less benefit when less players are spending money in the game.

An improvement in Cyrodiil is a pipe dream. They will not put a lot of effort into a zone that does not generate revenue directly when that same effort can require people to pony up some bucks.

I'm not sure of the logic here. Older zones are empty and noone wants to do same things over and over. So every new story zone they add is empty pretty quick. They must see that too.

So instead, they seem to be, because I'm not privy to their discussions, wanting to add systems they can iterate. Like the IA and like the new BGs.

Zos isnt going to invest in that, with years of effort going into them, if they're not convinced players play it, spend, and will spend, and will play it. I bet we get new BG maps regularly.

They just need to put Cyrodiil onto the same new type of system, they've built to go under IA and under BGs, that let's them change it up easily.

I want story and big new story zones, but I'm not sure that's where they're heading. Because as you've said, it just doesn't last as a way to capture players. Run thru it in 15 hours and gone back to [insert game here].

But we won't know for sure until the next big reveal next year, I guess. Will that be an epic story with NEW features (or same old delves, dungeon, dailies, wb, natural/magic disaster of some kind, and 15 hours of story?)

Amottica

Pelanora wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

Pelanora wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

On Steam, the player count is back down to what it was in 2018. I think it was a bad idea to make Plus lack so much value by scrapping story zones. The story didn't need to be a year long. They could have told more self-contained things like Thieves Guild and Murkmire.

ESO+ value is only part of the story. Your point about the reduction in meaningful content, like story zones itself, is the reason for the decline. Some only buy DLCs, while others probably only subscribe to see the new DLC and then cancel.

The regular parlance of new content is the bread and butter of any MMORPG. It was an unusual business decision to cut back on developing new, meaningful content since it would have been clear it would reduce revenue and profits. Zenimax would have known this.

I think they think they can release 'systems' content regularly and players will go for that. New IA levels, and I guess on the new system under BGs they'll be able to release new maps. And new scribing things.

We like new zones but how many hours playtime they worth? Is I guess what they thought.

If they actually put Cyrodiil on a new system, and redesigned it, they'd be home. They could release iterations of all systems annually, and a story every 2? years.

They can do a lot of things. Playable PvE content is what has kept this game going and what spikes and keeps players' interest. We will stick around and do the same things over and over for only so ling. It is why the older zones are fairly empty outside of good trading locations and events.

Zenimax knows this, so it is a very calculated decision to add less to the game. QOL updates are not meaningful content and amount to less benefit when less players are spending money in the game.

An improvement in Cyrodiil is a pipe dream. They will not put a lot of effort into a zone that does not generate revenue directly when that same effort can require people to pony up some bucks.

I'm not sure of the logic here. Older zones are empty and noone wants to do same things over and over. So every new story zone they add is empty pretty quick. They must see that too.

So instead, they seem to be, because I'm not privy to their discussions, wanting to add systems they can iterate. Like the IA and like the new BGs.

Zos isnt going to invest in that, with years of effort going into them, if they're not convinced players play it, spend, and will spend, and will play it. I bet we get new BG maps regularly.

They just need to put Cyrodiil onto the same new system, they've built to go under IA and BGs.

I want story and big new story zones, but I'm not sure that's where they're heading. Because as you've said, it just doesn't last as a way to capture players. Run thru it in 15 hours and gone back to [insert game here].

But we won't know for sure until the next big reveal next year, I guess. Will that be an epic story with NEW features (or same old delves, dungeon, dailies, wb, natural/magic disaster of some kind, and 15 hours of story?)

That means every new zone fills up, which is a source of revenue. That revenue is generated by continuing ESO+ or selling DLCs directly. Revenue is a fundamental requirement for paying bills and generating revenue.

No one has to subscribe or buy a DLC to get a QOL improvement.

There is the dialectic of that logic.

Oh, by the way, IA is new content, which, as I clearly stated, keeps people in the game. I'm not sure why that is mentioned, and the QoL update is left out of the discussion except for me mentioning it. Zenimax was adding four updates of meaningful content a year. Now, there are only two to three updates of meaningful content.

Cheers.

Pelanora

Amottica wrote: »

Pelanora wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

Pelanora wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

On Steam, the player count is back down to what it was in 2018. I think it was a bad idea to make Plus lack so much value by scrapping story zones. The story didn't need to be a year long. They could have told more self-contained things like Thieves Guild and Murkmire.

ESO+ value is only part of the story. Your point about the reduction in meaningful content, like story zones itself, is the reason for the decline. Some only buy DLCs, while others probably only subscribe to see the new DLC and then cancel.

The regular parlance of new content is the bread and butter of any MMORPG. It was an unusual business decision to cut back on developing new, meaningful content since it would have been clear it would reduce revenue and profits. Zenimax would have known this.

I think they think they can release 'systems' content regularly and players will go for that. New IA levels, and I guess on the new system under BGs they'll be able to release new maps. And new scribing things.

We like new zones but how many hours playtime they worth? Is I guess what they thought.

If they actually put Cyrodiil on a new system, and redesigned it, they'd be home. They could release iterations of all systems annually, and a story every 2? years.

They can do a lot of things. Playable PvE content is what has kept this game going and what spikes and keeps players' interest. We will stick around and do the same things over and over for only so ling. It is why the older zones are fairly empty outside of good trading locations and events.

Zenimax knows this, so it is a very calculated decision to add less to the game. QOL updates are not meaningful content and amount to less benefit when less players are spending money in the game.

An improvement in Cyrodiil is a pipe dream. They will not put a lot of effort into a zone that does not generate revenue directly when that same effort can require people to pony up some bucks.

I'm not sure of the logic here. Older zones are empty and noone wants to do same things over and over. So every new story zone they add is empty pretty quick. They must see that too.

So instead, they seem to be, because I'm not privy to their discussions, wanting to add systems they can iterate. Like the IA and like the new BGs.

Zos isnt going to invest in that, with years of effort going into them, if they're not convinced players play it, spend, and will spend, and will play it. I bet we get new BG maps regularly.

They just need to put Cyrodiil onto the same new system, they've built to go under IA and BGs.

I want story and big new story zones, but I'm not sure that's where they're heading. Because as you've said, it just doesn't last as a way to capture players. Run thru it in 15 hours and gone back to [insert game here].

But we won't know for sure until the next big reveal next year, I guess. Will that be an epic story with NEW features (or same old delves, dungeon, dailies, wb, natural/magic disaster of some kind, and 15 hours of story?)

That means every new zone fills up, which is a source of revenue. That revenue is generated by continuing ESO+ or selling DLCs directly. Revenue is a fundamental requirement for paying bills and generating revenue.

No one has to subscribe or buy a DLC to get a QOL improvement.

There is the dialectic of that logic.

The game needs new players. All the time. It isn't going to last on the same old 'I've played since beta' crowd.

Better new systems of constantly updating ways to play seems to be where they're heading to get those new players. Because if they believed/had the data selling zone stories brought in the cash, they wouldn't have dialed that back.

Syldras

Pelanora wrote: »

I want story and big new story zones, but I'm not sure that's where they're heading. Because as you've said, it just doesn't last as a way to capture players. Run thru it in 15 hours and gone back to [insert game here].

Serious question, as I usually play singleplayer rpgs and have no clue how it usually is: How do other MMOs keep older zones populated?

How about adding new content to older zones every now and then? And I don't mean one antiquity or so, which people excavate and then leave again after 5 minutes, but new stories, maybe even new settlements, new delves? Of course I would not be willing to pay a full chapter price for that, if there's no new zone and new assets, but as small updates (free or for a reasonable price), I'd have a look at it.

Still struggling to understand why they introduced AwA, btw. Without damaging the replayability I'm very sure that more people would be questing on alts, so there would be more people present in older zones.

Pelanora

Yea I'd stay in a lot of zones for ever if new stories kept turning up there. They could sell it for small $$ like EA sells mini updates.

Who even knows why they do anything tbh

Lalothen

The long and short of it is that ZOS staunchly refuses to listen to the community in any area where it truly matters. This is in stark contrast to their competitors, who have realised that their respective game communities are literally treasure troves of FREE ideas, critiques & solutions that typically resonate positively with players, and since actually turning around and listening they've put out better quality expansions, achieved a better balance of gameplay, etc.

So long as ZOS continues to take the stale, out-moded attitude that players are just livestock to be milked however they see fit - depending heavily on feelings of nostalgia, and the bonds of friendship many players fostered during the pandemic to keep people paying & playing - ESO is going to continue to decline.

Adapt or die; it's literally that simple.

Coo_PnT

My guess is that the ESO is simply not cost-effective and management has chosen to put the budget into other things (new MMO IP?) .The recent updates are so poor compared to previous years. Many ZoS employees have to say yes for a living. However, it is very sad that they ignore the opinions of us users too much and do not respond to anything. I wish they would communicate with us, even if it is just a little bit.

Elsonso

.

Amottica wrote: »

Pelanora wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

On Steam, the player count is back down to what it was in 2018. I think it was a bad idea to make Plus lack so much value by scrapping story zones. The story didn't need to be a year long. They could have told more self-contained things like Thieves Guild and Murkmire.

ESO+ value is only part of the story. Your point about the reduction in meaningful content, like story zones itself, is the reason for the decline. Some only buy DLCs, while others probably only subscribe to see the new DLC and then cancel.

The regular parlance of new content is the bread and butter of any MMORPG. It was an unusual business decision to cut back on developing new, meaningful content since it would have been clear it would reduce revenue and profits. Zenimax would have known this.

I think they think they can release 'systems' content regularly and players will go for that. New IA levels, and I guess on the new system under BGs they'll be able to release new maps. And new scribing things.

We like new zones but how many hours playtime they worth? Is I guess what they thought.

If they actually put Cyrodiil on a new system, and redesigned it, they'd be home. They could release iterations of all systems annually, and a story every 2? years.

They can do a lot of things. Playable PvE content is what has kept this game going and what spikes and keeps players' interest. We will stick around and do the same things over and over for only so ling. It is why the older zones are fairly empty outside of good trading locations and events.

Zenimax knows this, so it is a very calculated decision to add less to the game. QOL updates are not meaningful content and amount to less benefit when less players are spending money in the game.

If ZOS wanted to cut back on new zone content, they could release story updates that fit into the base game zones. Their tentpole systems are set it and forget it. I am just doing the latter.

Lalothen

Coo_PnT wrote: »

My guess is that the ESO is simply not cost-effective and management has chosen to put the budget into other things (new MMO IP?) .The recent updates are so poor compared to previous years. Many ZoS employees have to say yes for a living. However, it is very sad that they ignore the opinions of us users too much and do not respond to anything. I wish they would communicate with us, even if it is just a little bit.

Yet they felt the need this year to put out promo articles about how ESO has grossed over $2bn throughout its lifetime. Granted that's turnover not profit, but if they haven't made good profit on that sort of turnover then I'd be incredibly surprised. It's not even a "this game is old, we can't stop it from declining and feeling increasingly dated" scenario, because GW2 is just as old and doing better (Janthir Wilds has been really well received overall), and WoW is older still and they've just released one of the best expansions (The War Within) in the past decade.

If the spaghetti code they got left to deal with is imposing strict limits on what they can actually do, and/or the top brass just aren't bothered about the ongoing development of ESO and have basically put it into "managed decline" mode, the playerbase has a right to know.

We're customers paying good money with particular expectations as to the value of the product we get for that money (and compared to competitor MMOs we're not getting good value for our money any more). We deserve transparency about the state of ESO and its future, not opaqueness, obfuscation or - most infuriatingly - complete silence.

MISTFORMBZZZ

Coo_PnT wrote: »

Aurielle wrote: »

MISTFORMBZZZ wrote: »

[snip]

[snip]

[snip]

I agree but pvp doesnt get any love of zos.

Nobody i know is planning to play the new bg mode.

[edited to remove quote]

AzuraFan

Elsonso wrote: »

If ZOS wanted to cut back on new zone content, they could release story updates that fit into the base game zones. Their tentpole systems are set it and forget it. I am just doing the latter.

Yes. I posted quite a while ago (maybe a couple of years ago) that I'd buy quest packs. Put out a new guild line. Have all the quests in the base game zones, with a couple of new instanced locations thrown in. Do scavenger hunts every 3 months within one existing zone, for difficult-to-obtain leads, furniture plans, treasure maps, etc. I saw someone suggest NPC bounty hunts. Those can be done in existing zones. Put out a new storyline in an existing zone. Maybe it can feature one of the popular NPCs that's participated in the main story. Now he/she has a problem and asks for our help. I'd buy a quest pack like that.

I'm sure there are a ton of other ideas they could come up with to implement and sell, so that not everything they're putting into the game is a mindless, grindy system that involves doing the same content over and over again.

They're kind of doing this with the two new companions.

ZOS_Icy

Greetings,

After removing a few off topic posts, we would like to ask everyone to keep posts on the subject at hand. While we understand that you may have interest in other games, we ask that threads remain focused on ESO.

Thank you for your understanding.

Warhawke_80

CatoUnchained wrote: »

Are you talking about ESO? ....a game who's PvP hasn't seen any support or upgrades in over 5 years? We learned during the last live stream that even Brian Wheeler, ESO's PvP/combat dev very rarely even spends time in Cyrodiil. Meanwhile, essentially every update and addition to ESO since 2018 has been PvE/casual focused.

The year long content was canned to address PVP technical issues...that is huge
They can't add more content until the technical issues are addressed, yet no matter what Zenimax tries, the folks with a Pentium II and the 726 frame line will scream lag, so there is no moving forward.
The PVP player base is infinitesimally small....yet despite that all players pay for Zenimax's decision to "fix PVP"

No matter what Zenimax does, it will not be enough for the PVP community... period


In any event my post was more about the Backslapping network that keeps the masses out of it's small circle, and said network talking down to said masses like the poster I responded to...

Aurielle

Warhawke_80 wrote: »

CatoUnchained wrote: »

Are you talking about ESO? ....a game who's PvP hasn't seen any support or upgrades in over 5 years? We learned during the last live stream that even Brian Wheeler, ESO's PvP/combat dev very rarely even spends time in Cyrodiil. Meanwhile, essentially every update and addition to ESO since 2018 has been PvE/casual focused.

The year long content was canned to address PVP technical issues...that is huge
They can't add more content until the technical issues are addressed
The PVP player base is infinitesimally small....yet all players pay for Zenimax's decision despite all that that to fix PVP

No matter what Zenimax does it will not be enough for the PVP community... period

Please don’t blame the PVP community for the lack of updates. That’s not on us.

DinoZavr

MISTFORMBZZZ

ZOS_Icy wrote: »

Greetings,

After removing a few off topic posts, we would like to ask everyone to keep posts on the subject at hand. While we understand that you may have interest in other games, we ask that threads remain focused on ESO.

Thank you for your understanding.

Are there any plans of zos adressing/replying/reacting to the players concerns?

Theist_VII

MISTFORMBZZZ wrote: »

ZOS_Icy wrote: »

Greetings,

After removing a few off topic posts, we would like to ask everyone to keep posts on the subject at hand. While we understand that you may have interest in other games, we ask that threads remain focused on ESO.

Thank you for your understanding.

Are there any plans of zos adressing/replying/reacting to the players concerns?

I know, if they don’t want us posting about other games, perhaps fix ESO to be playable?

There’s a 60+ page thread explaining that since the latest patch it’s impossible to get into any content that requires stability.

Warhawke_80

Aurielle wrote: »

Warhawke_80 wrote: »

CatoUnchained wrote: »

Are you talking about ESO? ....a game who's PvP hasn't seen any support or upgrades in over 5 years? We learned during the last live stream that even Brian Wheeler, ESO's PvP/combat dev very rarely even spends time in Cyrodiil. Meanwhile, essentially every update and addition to ESO since 2018 has been PvE/casual focused.

The year long content was canned to address PVP technical issues...that is huge
They can't add more content until the technical issues are addressed
The PVP player base is infinitesimally small....yet all players pay for Zenimax's decision despite all that that to fix PVP

No matter what Zenimax does it will not be enough for the PVP community... period

Please don’t blame the PVP community for the lack of updates. That’s not on us.

No Blame here...it was just asserted that Zenimax has done nothing to improve PVP and that just isn't true.

TaSheen

MISTFORMBZZZ wrote: »

ZOS_Icy wrote: »

Greetings,

After removing a few off topic posts, we would like to ask everyone to keep posts on the subject at hand. While we understand that you may have interest in other games, we ask that threads remain focused on ESO.

Thank you for your understanding.

Are there any plans of zos adressing/replying/reacting to the players concerns?

Kevin may have inklings but won't post anything without being authorized. The rank and file mods may have ideas, but won't post anything at all.

Theist_VII

Warhawke_80 wrote: »

Aurielle wrote: »

Warhawke_80 wrote: »

CatoUnchained wrote: »

Are you talking about ESO? ....a game who's PvP hasn't seen any support or upgrades in over 5 years? We learned during the last live stream that even Brian Wheeler, ESO's PvP/combat dev very rarely even spends time in Cyrodiil. Meanwhile, essentially every update and addition to ESO since 2018 has been PvE/casual focused.

The year long content was canned to address PVP technical issues...that is huge
They can't add more content until the technical issues are addressed
The PVP player base is infinitesimally small....yet all players pay for Zenimax's decision despite all that that to fix PVP

No matter what Zenimax does it will not be enough for the PVP community... period

Please don’t blame the PVP community for the lack of updates. That’s not on us.

No Blame here...it was just asserted that Zenimax has done nothing to improve PVP and that just isn't true.

It’s true depending on how you look at it.

If your idea of an improved PvP is the introduction of new combat systems to fight other players, or new maps, or new weapon types, then yes.

Content is more dry than the Sahara, it’s been 5 years since any changes were made to the actual design of Cyrodiil, and those changes were horrible.

Warhawke_80

Theist_VII wrote: »

Warhawke_80 wrote: »

Aurielle wrote: »

Warhawke_80 wrote: »

CatoUnchained wrote: »

Are you talking about ESO? ....a game who's PvP hasn't seen any support or upgrades in over 5 years? We learned during the last live stream that even Brian Wheeler, ESO's PvP/combat dev very rarely even spends time in Cyrodiil. Meanwhile, essentially every update and addition to ESO since 2018 has been PvE/casual focused.

The year long content was canned to address PVP technical issues...that is huge
They can't add more content until the technical issues are addressed
The PVP player base is infinitesimally small....yet all players pay for Zenimax's decision despite all that that to fix PVP

No matter what Zenimax does it will not be enough for the PVP community... period

Please don’t blame the PVP community for the lack of updates. That’s not on us.

No Blame here...it was just asserted that Zenimax has done nothing to improve PVP and that just isn't true.

It’s true depending on how you look at it.

If your idea of an improved PvP is the introduction of new combat systems to fight other players, or new maps, or new weapon types, then yes.

Content is more dry than the Sahara, it’s been 5 years since any changes were made to the actual design of Cyrodiil, and those changes were horrible.

Right and that is because they are stuck on the technical issues namely lag no matter what they do there is a group of people still screaming about it...it doesn't make sense to add more content when the community insist that lag is still the main issue.....


"Zos Fix your servers!!!!!!"
What are you running??
"An Xbox 360 plugged into wif-fi that gets about 800k"

MISTFORMBZZZ

Warhawke_80 wrote: »

Theist_VII wrote: »

Warhawke_80 wrote: »

Aurielle wrote: »

Warhawke_80 wrote: »

CatoUnchained wrote: »

Are you talking about ESO? ....a game who's PvP hasn't seen any support or upgrades in over 5 years? We learned during the last live stream that even Brian Wheeler, ESO's PvP/combat dev very rarely even spends time in Cyrodiil. Meanwhile, essentially every update and addition to ESO since 2018 has been PvE/casual focused.

The year long content was canned to address PVP technical issues...that is huge
They can't add more content until the technical issues are addressed
The PVP player base is infinitesimally small....yet all players pay for Zenimax's decision despite all that that to fix PVP

No matter what Zenimax does it will not be enough for the PVP community... period

Please don’t blame the PVP community for the lack of updates. That’s not on us.

No Blame here...it was just asserted that Zenimax has done nothing to improve PVP and that just isn't true.

It’s true depending on how you look at it.

If your idea of an improved PvP is the introduction of new combat systems to fight other players, or new maps, or new weapon types, then yes.

Content is more dry than the Sahara, it’s been 5 years since any changes were made to the actual design of Cyrodiil, and those changes were horrible.

Right and that is because they are stuck on the technical issues namely lag no matter what they do there is a group of people still screaming about it...it doesn't make sense to add more content when the community insist that lag is still the main issue.....


"Zos Fix your servers!!!!!!"
What are you running??
"An Xbox 360 plugged into wif-fi that gets about 800k"

Youre speaking about a minority of probably 1% with bad hardware.

Stamicka

Warhawke_80 wrote: »

CatoUnchained wrote: »

Are you talking about ESO? ....a game who's PvP hasn't seen any support or upgrades in over 5 years? We learned during the last live stream that even Brian Wheeler, ESO's PvP/combat dev very rarely even spends time in Cyrodiil. Meanwhile, essentially every update and addition to ESO since 2018 has been PvE/casual focused.

The year long content was canned to address PVP technical issues...that is huge
They can't add more content until the technical issues are addressed, yet no matter what Zenimax tries, the folks with a Pentium II and the 726 frame line will scream lag, so there is no moving forward.
The PVP player base is infinitesimally small....yet despite that all players pay for Zenimax's decision to "fix PVP"

No matter what Zenimax does, it will not be enough for the PVP community... period


In any event my post was more about the Backslapping network that keeps the masses out of it's small circle, and said network talking down to said masses like the poster I responded to...

Wow, I'm not sure how someone can even think this.

Cyrodiil was released in 2014 as a 600v600v600 PvP zone. Since then, they've added some outposts, destructible bridges, and a hammer. Those 3 features are barely additions, in fact I consider destructible bridges and the hammer as detriments to PvP. Meanwhile, Cyrodiil's max population is probably a tenth of what it was in 2014 AND the performance has ranged from genuinely unplayable to laggy, but still playable. There is no doubt that Cyrodiil has regressed since launch. If you were a 2015 PvPer returning to ESO in 2024, you would basically have less to do in Cyrodiil because of how much it has been gutted.

Imperial City was released in 2015, but once again this zone has only seen small changes since release.

Dueling came out in 2016 with One Tamriel and once again this system was never built upon.

BGs came out in 2017 with Morrowind and just now in 2024 is it getting any significant changes.

So from 2014-2017, each year we saw a new PvP system. From 2018-2024, there has been almost nothing for PvPers. In fact in the 2018-2024 time frame, the PvPers have lost content in some way or another. At one point it wasn't even possible to queue into BGs with friends, and as mentioned, Cyrodiil max populations have been repeatedly cut. It is also worth mentioning that many changes to the game's combat system are made for people who will never step a foot in PvP anyway. We also see barely any balance changes despite PvP being in drastic need of it.

Let's also remember all the times ZOS failed to deliver to the PvPers after telling them they would. I remember hearing way back in 2016 that ZOS was "working to fix PvP performance issues". We also had a "year of performance" that ended up slowing down how fast you could block and barswap, and then performance got to its worst point after that year anyway. Remember how ZOS had a big "server rearchitecture" project that was supposed to drastically improve PvP server performance? Yea no one really knows what happened to the project, it kind of just never materialized if it was ever real to begin with.

So ZOS has not supported PvP even remotely since 2017, and even now they are just making a small change (eliminating a 3rd team and adding an 8v8 mode) to an already existing system.

How much overland, questing, and casual (basically soloable) content has been released since 2014? Why were light attack weaving, bash weaving/canceling, ultimate animation canceling, tap blocking, and countless other combat features nerfed or changed? Who was that for? Now tell me who is being catered to.

Warhawke_80

Stamicka wrote: »

Warhawke_80 wrote: »

CatoUnchained wrote: »

Are you talking about ESO? ....a game who's PvP hasn't seen any support or upgrades in over 5 years? We learned during the last live stream that even Brian Wheeler, ESO's PvP/combat dev very rarely even spends time in Cyrodiil. Meanwhile, essentially every update and addition to ESO since 2018 has been PvE/casual focused.

The year long content was canned to address PVP technical issues...that is huge
They can't add more content until the technical issues are addressed, yet no matter what Zenimax tries, the folks with a Pentium II and the 726 frame line will scream lag, so there is no moving forward.
The PVP player base is infinitesimally small....yet despite that all players pay for Zenimax's decision to "fix PVP"

No matter what Zenimax does, it will not be enough for the PVP community... period


In any event my post was more about the Backslapping network that keeps the masses out of it's small circle, and said network talking down to said masses like the poster I responded to...

Wow, I'm not sure how someone can even think this.

Cyrodiil was released in 2014 as a 600v600v600 PvP zone. Since then, they've added some outposts, destructible bridges, and a hammer. Those 3 features are barely additions, in fact I consider destructible bridges and the hammer as detriments to PvP. Meanwhile, Cyrodiil's max population is probably a tenth of what it was in 2014 AND the performance has ranged from genuinely unplayable to laggy, but still playable. There is no doubt that Cyrodiil has regressed since launch. If you were a 2015 PvPer returning to ESO in 2024, you would basically have less to do in Cyrodiil because of how much it has been gutted.

Right that wasn't practical then and it's not now...the issue is the devs of Warhammer Age Of Reckoning (Which was a PVP MMO that failed because it was a PVP MMO) and DAoC (which was a Niche MMO that had some success) tried to shoehorn a PVP centric game into an IP of a single Player Fantasy Role Playing game and it just didn't work... The community wanted Skyrim with friends....what we got at launch was DAOC II....and while that could have worked it wasn't going to in a TES game...the TES community is massive of course those people were going to flood in and they are the largest voice in this community.

I promise you if they had to do it over again PVP would not have been such a prominent aspect of this game...but I think they are doing the best they can with the hand they have...The game is ten years old, we are not going to see some giant rework that caters to Raiders and PVP players....but there is that dedicated Casual audience that has stuck around and while that may disappoint the original vision....money is money.

This is my last word on it....I know some folks will never see my point of view just like I'll never see theirs.