Population shrinking, PLEASE do something

manukartofanu · December 18

moderatelyfatman wrote: »

dk_dunkirk wrote: »

TwiceBornStar wrote: »

I'm one of those players who said that it's okay to cut down on the content for a while if that means bug fixes and quality of life improvements, so if you want to blame somebody..

I'm *that* dude!

Me too. We don't need another cut-and-paste approach to a zone with a story that goes nowhere, another dungeon and trial, a new ToT deck, a handful of useless mythics, another half dozen sets that 1) no one will ever use and 2) will force balance issues between PVE and PVP, and -- of course -- a bunch of achievements buried behind various other parts of the game.

OTOH, the 95-page thread about the ongoing performance problems and the seemingly endless complaints about PVP make it feel like we're not getting the other work either.

I agree with you about not needing another superfluous zone or ToT decks and mythics. However, I do think that we need more trials and would be happy to buy them for 2500 crowns in the crown store.

A trial for 2500 crowns? We have recolor for 2000 crowns, a trial should be at least 10.000

dk_dunkirk · December 18

manukartofanu wrote: »

moderatelyfatman wrote: »

dk_dunkirk wrote: »

TwiceBornStar wrote: »

I'm one of those players who said that it's okay to cut down on the content for a while if that means bug fixes and quality of life improvements, so if you want to blame somebody..

I'm *that* dude!

Me too. We don't need another cut-and-paste approach to a zone with a story that goes nowhere, another dungeon and trial, a new ToT deck, a handful of useless mythics, another half dozen sets that 1) no one will ever use and 2) will force balance issues between PVE and PVP, and -- of course -- a bunch of achievements buried behind various other parts of the game.

OTOH, the 95-page thread about the ongoing performance problems and the seemingly endless complaints about PVP make it feel like we're not getting the other work either.

I agree with you about not needing another superfluous zone or ToT decks and mythics. However, I do think that we need more trials and would be happy to buy them for 2500 crowns in the crown store.

A trial for 2500 crowns? We have recolor for 2000 crowns, a trial should be at least 10.000

I main a sorc, and tire of the flappy bird myself so when it came up, I bought it with crowns I already had, but I did not feel good about this purchase. Sure, you can see through it now, but that's not really what we wanted, was it? So they took one of the longest and most widespread complaints in the entire game, and found a way to expensively monetize a partial fix. Do you think this made me feel good? To allow my OCD to be abused like this? Do you think I'm eager to do this again for the clanfear?

There's no way this game is funded by subscriptions alone. ZOS needs crown store money to make this thing work, and a lot of it. I've spent many thousands of dollars in the crown store over the past couple of years, but I haven't made a new crown purchase since the performance problems started in May, and they haven't been able to fix them. I spent my last crowns on that stupid bird, but that was money already spent on ESO's balance sheet. I won't buy again until we see some progress on these problems and whatever else needs to happen to make the player counts start going up again.

LadyGP · December 18

dk_dunkirk wrote: »

manukartofanu wrote: »

moderatelyfatman wrote: »

dk_dunkirk wrote: »

TwiceBornStar wrote: »

I'm one of those players who said that it's okay to cut down on the content for a while if that means bug fixes and quality of life improvements, so if you want to blame somebody..

I'm *that* dude!

Me too. We don't need another cut-and-paste approach to a zone with a story that goes nowhere, another dungeon and trial, a new ToT deck, a handful of useless mythics, another half dozen sets that 1) no one will ever use and 2) will force balance issues between PVE and PVP, and -- of course -- a bunch of achievements buried behind various other parts of the game.

OTOH, the 95-page thread about the ongoing performance problems and the seemingly endless complaints about PVP make it feel like we're not getting the other work either.

I agree with you about not needing another superfluous zone or ToT decks and mythics. However, I do think that we need more trials and would be happy to buy them for 2500 crowns in the crown store.

A trial for 2500 crowns? We have recolor for 2000 crowns, a trial should be at least 10.000

I main a sorc, and tire of the flappy bird myself so when it came up, I bought it with crowns I already had, but I did not feel good about this purchase. Sure, you can see through it now, but that's not really what we wanted, was it? So they took one of the longest and most widespread complaints in the entire game, and found a way to expensively monetize a partial fix. Do you think this made me feel good? To allow my OCD to be abused like this? Do you think I'm eager to do this again for the clanfear?

There's no way this game is funded by subscriptions alone. ZOS needs crown store money to make this thing work, and a lot of it. I've spent many thousands of dollars in the crown store over the past couple of years, but I haven't made a new crown purchase since the performance problems started in May, and they haven't been able to fix them. I spent my last crowns on that stupid bird, but that was money already spent on ESO's balance sheet. I won't buy again until we see some progress on these problems and whatever else needs to happen to make the player counts start going up again.

This post is basically me. Thousands spent, stopped in may when performance hit the bed (ended my sub) and won't buy anything or resub until performance improves.

Recent · December 19

Nope, not shrinking. Still as fat as last year

moderatelyfatman · December 19

Recent wrote: »

Nope, not shrinking. Still as fat as last year

Are you talking about the playerbase numbers or weight?

(FYI: Unlike the playerbase numbers, Fatman is an appreciating asset!)

J18696 · December 19

I know it's a huge ask but if they have any ambition for the future cross play should be a serious consideration for a long term goal to keep populations high consistently

moderatelyfatman · December 19

J18696 wrote: »

I know it's a huge ask but if they have any ambition for the future cross play should be a serious consideration for a long term goal to keep populations high consistently

The main issue of cross play from the PC side of things is what is going to happen to Add Ons?
There will be a revolt if PC players have to give this up as the price of cross-play.

dk_dunkirk · December 19

J18696 wrote: »

I know it's a huge ask but if they have any ambition for the future cross play should be a serious consideration for a long term goal to keep populations high consistently

ZOS has been as clear as they can possibly be about this. It's not on the roadmap.

I wish there were an FAQ page with some official statements about things like this and class change tokens. Maybe there is, and I just don't know it.

Maitsukas · December 19

J18696 wrote: »

I know it's a huge ask but if they have any ambition for the future cross play should be a serious consideration for a long term goal to keep populations high consistently

Check this from an earlier point in the thread:

Maitsukas wrote: »

XSTRONG wrote: »

MISTFORMBZZZ wrote: »

[snip]

Didnt you have a thread recently where Kevin answered they are looking into crossplay? Im pretty sure Zos are working on crossplay and might even announce it on Console 10 year anniversary

They need to circumvent several problems, that were brought up in another thread:

tomofhyrule wrote: »

The problem with Crossplay is that ESO is set up with a megaserver architecture. As the devs have said several times, there is no way to merge the servers as is.

What they would need to do to enable crossplay is essentially make a new server and then copy the existing accounts into the new server, before finally deleting the old megaservers.

That of course leads to questions:
If two players have the same account name, which player is forced to change it? This is doubly difficult since the @ name for console is the gamertag from the console, so then if you have the same tag as an account on the other console, it would conflict. Also remember that it would be a brand new server, so would they have to append "-XB" or "-PS" onto every account name for that?

How would you deal with character name conflicts. Again, ESO is set up assuming that every character on a server has a unique name. If all consoles were condensed into one megaserver, then who wins name conflicts?

Which servers are set to merge? Are they supposed to merge all four console servers into one, or will it just be two regional servers: console EU and console NA?

Will the legal teams play nice with that? I'm sure there are a lot of legalese they have to get through, specifically in the case that Sony will not be okay with the idea of people being able to not play on a Sony console.

There is a lot more involved in this than "oh, let's just push the 'crossplay on' button," and ZOS has been saying for years what their architecture is and how it differs from the architecture of other MMOs (i.e. the Megaserver architecture that allows literally every account on one server to interact). However, that makes adding crossplay much harder and will almost take a reimagining of the 10-year old system. Deleting and remaking the servers into one seems like the best possible option, but it would be ripe for conflicts... and the fact that we had the PTS/PCNA issue in April doesn't do much to inspire confidence.

Maitsukas wrote: »

tomofhyrule wrote: »

If two players have the same account name, which player is forced to change it? This is doubly difficult since the @ name for console is the gamertag from the console, so then if you have the same tag as an account on the other console, it would conflict. Also remember that it would be a brand new server, so would they have to append "-XB" or "-PS" onto every account name for that?

How would you deal with character name conflicts. Again, ESO is set up assuming that every character on a server has a unique name. If all consoles were condensed into one megaserver, then who wins name conflicts?

This basically also applies to player guilds, and that one is really problematic, since there is no way for players to change the name of the guild.

Meiox wrote: »

And what if you allready have an account on both system? Would you have 40 characters on the merged account, if you have both accounts maxed out ?

Going to add another issue that can arise:

What happens if you have different projects in the same house spread across multiple servers (for example, you've done one big build for the Grand Psijic Villa on PC-EU, but you've made something completely different in the same house but on PS-EU)? Which housing project would you be willing to sacrifice for crossplay?

AvalonRanger · December 19

I don't feel shrinking in the PC-NA.

moderatelyfatman · December 19

AvalonRanger wrote: »

I don't feel shrinking in the PC-NA.

I think it also depends at what time you play. Remember that the game can feel quite full even with a reduced population by reducing the number of active instances.

What I've noticed is that outside of US primetime things such as BGs (before the latest disaster) and Random Dungeons (even on a tank or healer) take a lot longer to pop than 2 years ago. You can also take a look at the population in Cyrodiil (a single instance) which is a lot emptier for much of the day.

Trade is another one.

dk_dunkirk · December 19

AvalonRanger wrote: »

I don't feel shrinking in the PC-NA.

Over the past couple of days, it's been taking me 10 minutes to queue for randoms and pledges as a healer. I am definitely feeling it. (I play in the evening in EDT on PC NA.)

AvalonRanger · December 19

dk_dunkirk wrote: »

AvalonRanger wrote: »

I don't feel shrinking in the PC-NA.

Over the past couple of days, it's been taking me 10 minutes to queue for randoms and pledges as a healer. I am definitely feeling it. (I play in the evening in EDT on PC NA.)

But, in my tank character. I hit the matching normal dungeon Within 1 sec or 3min.

AvalonRanger · December 19

moderatelyfatman wrote: »

AvalonRanger wrote: »

I don't feel shrinking in the PC-NA.

I think it also depends at what time you play. Remember that the game can feel quite full even with a reduced population by reducing the number of active instances.

What I've noticed is that outside of US primetime things such as BGs (before the latest disaster) and Random Dungeons (even on a tank or healer) take a lot longer to pop than 2 years ago. You can also take a look at the population in Cyrodiil (a single instance) which is a lot emptier for much of the day.

Trade is another one.

When I'm in playing time, most of same time zone people are going log off.
And, American people wake up from bed. Hello American people and good night for me.

Coo_PnT · December 19

It depends on the time of day you play, and whether you are a casual or hardcore player. But the population is definitely declining.

I am active in Cyrodiil during prime time in Asia/Australia. On weekdays there are almost no people (almost 1bar) just PvDoor. Until a year ago, there were people in each alliance and PvP was established.

Why do I PvDoor? The answer is simple.
Because it is my prime time and that is the only time I can play. Don't get me wrong, I don't want to play PvDoor, I want to play large scale PvP. (I play solo in a pick up group, not in a guild).
I hope to see the population grow back to its former prosperity.

*Im Sorry I lied PvDoor is little fun too.

Korinth · December 19

Franlky...ESO lost me as a regular player with the necessity for "Weaving" to get damage numbers good enough to stay with a hard mode trial guild. That was what...4 years ago?

I understand having to know what abilities maximize damage, I understand having to stay on top of a rotation to ensure maximum uptimes. I understand having to know boss mechanics. What I hate is having to weave light attacks in.... I already feel like a rabbid hamster clicking away, bar swapping..etc

Couple that with the never ending buffing and debuffing abilities, and the constant gear grinds due to gear nerfing, I just couldnt keep up. I dont have HOURS and HOURS to spend grinding new gear every patch.

Just not interested in the current mechanics or the constant gear grind. I dropped out of my guilds. And with that my interest in ESO has waned to where I MAY play ESO a few hours per week (where I used to play every night).

dk_dunkirk · December 20

Korinth wrote: »

Franlky...ESO lost me as a regular player with the necessity for "Weaving" to get damage numbers good enough to stay with a hard mode trial guild. That was what...4 years ago?

I understand having to know what abilities maximize damage, I understand having to stay on top of a rotation to ensure maximum uptimes. I understand having to know boss mechanics. What I hate is having to weave light attacks in.... I already feel like a rabbid hamster clicking away, bar swapping..etc

Couple that with the never ending buffing and debuffing abilities, and the constant gear grinds due to gear nerfing, I just couldnt keep up. I dont have HOURS and HOURS to spend grinding new gear every patch.

Just not interested in the current mechanics or the constant gear grind. I dropped out of my guilds. And with that my interest in ESO has waned to where I MAY play ESO a few hours per week (where I used to play every night).

I was in the same boat, but came back to the game to find oakensoul-based builds and arcanists, and they've gone a long way to addressing those of us who couldn't master the weaving game. In fact, the arcanist swung the meta so hard, it's now the preferred DPS for "hard mode trial guilds." Have you not made one yet? Drop a couple dots, flail, flail, beam, rinse, repeat. I still struggle to do 100K DPS on the dummy with a "standard" build, but I'm consistently in the top 3 DPS's with my arcanist when I run vet trials with a semi-serious guild. If it weren't for my oakensorc main, and my arc DPS for trials, I would have quit as well. Now everyone complains about how OP the arcanist is. (I suspect it's just the people who can do 120K with a sweaty 2-bar build), and I fear ZOS will nerf it, and take it away from us mid players, rather than buff other classes to compete. If that happens, I'm definitely gone.

Sakiri · December 20

dk_dunkirk wrote: »

Korinth wrote: »

Franlky...ESO lost me as a regular player with the necessity for "Weaving" to get damage numbers good enough to stay with a hard mode trial guild. That was what...4 years ago?

I understand having to know what abilities maximize damage, I understand having to stay on top of a rotation to ensure maximum uptimes. I understand having to know boss mechanics. What I hate is having to weave light attacks in.... I already feel like a rabbid hamster clicking away, bar swapping..etc

Couple that with the never ending buffing and debuffing abilities, and the constant gear grinds due to gear nerfing, I just couldnt keep up. I dont have HOURS and HOURS to spend grinding new gear every patch.

Just not interested in the current mechanics or the constant gear grind. I dropped out of my guilds. And with that my interest in ESO has waned to where I MAY play ESO a few hours per week (where I used to play every night).

I was in the same boat, but came back to the game to find oakensoul-based builds and arcanists, and they've gone a long way to addressing those of us who couldn't master the weaving game. In fact, the arcanist swung the meta so hard, it's now the preferred DPS for "hard mode trial guilds." Have you not made one yet? Drop a couple dots, flail, flail, beam, rinse, repeat. I still struggle to do 100K DPS on the dummy with a "standard" build, but I'm consistently in the top 3 DPS's with my arcanist when I run vet trials with a semi-serious guild. If it weren't for my oakensorc main, and my arc DPS for trials, I would have quit as well. Now everyone complains about how OP the arcanist is. (I suspect it's just the people who can do 120K with a sweaty 2-bar build), and I fear ZOS will nerf it, and take it away from us mid players, rather than buff other classes to compete. If that happens, I'm definitely gone.

Actually it's the people who fight to get 80k with a one bar build too. One bar arc builds can still hit more than that. My SO quit doing trials because he can't get invites as oakensorc. I rerolled but am still salty about it.