Population shrinking, PLEASE do something

Grendalism · October 3

A big chunk of the “new player” numbers has got to be the increasing number of bots seen in Craglorn & starter areas.

These will show as a ‘steady new increase’ in players, but in reality they are just dead keyboards running on automation.

Take the bots out of the equation and get a better idea on numbers!

spartaxoxo · October 3

Jaraal wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Jaraal wrote: »

They sacrificed replayability for a card game. And I wonder how many people still actually play that on a daily basis.

No, they didn't. They sacrificed it for performance. The game already runs poorly. A lot has been cut for that.

They said:

Most importantly, however, this change helps keep the game performant as we continue to add new content and achievements in the future.

And Update 33 axed alt achievements at the same time as they added the card game, and a whole bunch of new achievements associated with it. The original announcement, which was later edited, stated that they were consolidating achievements to make way for new systems. And the new system at the time was the card game.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/598865/

Correlation doesn't equal causation. The card game may have happened to be the new system at the time. But they needed to keep the game performant for years. It wasn't for the card game, the card game just happened to be the first new system to benefit. It was not the only system they were working on (IIRC it was also arcanist, ia, and scribing but maybe I'm wrong that one). In other words, it was for the ability to add new systems in general and keep the game performant not any individual system in particular.

Jusey1 · October 3

Dimorphos wrote: »

I have played the game since 2017/18

I've been playing the game on/off since 2014, big whoop. Yes, I get that the playing numbers are low right now, but I absolutely have no idea why myself. I don't see any major underlying issues happening with ESO, other than the crown store simply existing but the crown store has always been a problem no matter what, so we can't really blame it for the current population... The game's content is fine, I rarely see bugs (if any) when I play, and I have no issues with the servers either, like I don't get what is wrong right now. I see no major issues. Hell, I barely can tell that the game's population bad is anywhere, since I have no issues finding players in any zone and the current newest zone is extremely populated when I go to it due to the current event ordeal.

WoW on the other hand still has multiple issues I have with it, which sure could just be personally. I absolutely hate WoW's mentality that you must always play the newest content and always constantly replace your equipment with very tedious and annoying grinds, and that old content is too bad, you shouldn't play it so we make it boring... Plus I run into bugs more in WoW than in ESO.

gronoxvx · October 3

Tbh ESO started going downhill when they introduced housing and realised how profitable it was with the crown store. The game is pretty much just a housing simulator now.

agelonestar · October 3

gronoxvx wrote: »

Tbh ESO started going downhill when they introduced housing and realised how profitable it was with the crown store. The game is pretty much just a housing simulator now.

I acknowledge this is an opinion and you're entitled to it, but it's patently nonsense. If anything, Housing added a new player base to the game and augmented existing and future playability.

gronoxvx · October 3

agelonestar wrote: »

gronoxvx wrote: »

Tbh ESO started going downhill when they introduced housing and realised how profitable it was with the crown store. The game is pretty much just a housing simulator now.

I acknowledge this is an opinion and you're entitled to it, but it's patently nonsense. If anything, Housing added a new player base to the game and augmented existing and future playability.

Added another aspect of play yes, however after this is when the concentration of the crown store really ramped up and the quality of other aspects of the game diminished.

Its not me putting the blame on people who are into housing as theres some mindblowing stuff, but its when everyone started to really catch on to how aggressive the crown store started to become and how little in game rewards there were

Oznog666 · October 3

Grendalism wrote: »

A big chunk of the “new player” numbers has got to be the increasing number of bots seen in Craglorn & starter areas.

These will show as a ‘steady new increase’ in players, but in reality they are just dead keyboards running on automation.

Take the bots out of the equation and get a better idea on numbers!

And this is one more reason why we do not want to connect PC and consoles. I'm playing since 4 years but I never ever saw a bot on PC EU....... Oh, and regarding the thread title: there is also no shrinking population on PC. There are sometimes different problems, true - like lags, disconnects - lags ecpecially now during the event in West Weald.

agelonestar · October 3

gronoxvx wrote: »

agelonestar wrote: »

gronoxvx wrote: »

Tbh ESO started going downhill when they introduced housing and realised how profitable it was with the crown store. The game is pretty much just a housing simulator now.

I acknowledge this is an opinion and you're entitled to it, but it's patently nonsense. If anything, Housing added a new player base to the game and augmented existing and future playability.

Added another aspect of play yes, however after this is when the concentration of the crown store really ramped up and the quality of the game started to diminish.

Again, this is simply not accurate - it's nothing more than an opinion, and an ill-informed one at that.

Housing has been in the game since Update 13. That's February 2017 - not far off 8 years ago. That's not far off 80% of the game's lifespan so far. That period takes in many population highs and lows, including the all-time highs so far. The idea that Housing has somehow helped to diminish the player population is obviously nonsense.

The Crown Store has been a feature of the game since Tamriel Unlimited launched in March 2015, and arguably its prominence was cemented with the launch of Crown Crates in 2016, not Housing.

The reality is that most MMOs saw a significant decline in player populations during the summer months of 2024 (to the best of our knowledge, given that many MMOs don't publish their data). Many are seeing small improvements now.

Coo_PnT · October 3

The type and content of our entertainment is changing at a tremendous pace. Even if we focus only on games, there are new and interesting games released for PC and Console every month and every day. It takes a lot of effort for ESO to keep up. Casual gamers, in particular, will go elsewhere when they are no longer stimulated.

Still, I love ESO.

Aurielle · October 3

MISTFORMBZZZ wrote: »

Dimorphos wrote: »

I have two images here to show as a comparison and yes they could be made better but I was in hurry.

Wow group finder at approximately 22.00 is literally filled. In both mythic+ dungeons and raids got well over 100 active groups looking for people to join. And that is only one battlegroup/realm group of EU out of 16 I think there is.

While in ESO at the same time 22.00 covering all of what PC/EU has to offer and you can count the whole group finder activity with one hand fingers. There is practically nothing going on if you would look for something to do through group finder tool. And this is the reality of ESO. Ghost towns and nothing truly going on in PVE side and many guilds even those bigger ones are cancelling raids due to lack of people not joining. In cyrodiil you can ride from keep to keep without running into a single player and continue wandering alone for quite a long time. There is something going on in like 2 keeps at best even during the "rush hour". And that place is huuge and meant to be active pvp zone for hundreds of players at one time. There are many reasons why ESO is empty and why Wow is overflowing of activity.

It is a dead game ESO when you compare it to Wow, Final fantasy XIV and other mmorpg titles that actually take care of their game and listen to the community and provide content, enough good story material and activities to do. Crown store and decorating homes, that's what ESO is about it seems and it fails even in player housing because they can't offer more decorating room which community has literally cried for because raising that bar would make it unbearable for older gen. consoles. And they said some time ago they have no intentions to work on this problem/wish of community. These are the main reasons I left ESO for now and cancelled my sub. and returned to Wow and 20 years old graphics but at least that game delivers. Happy to pay the monthly fee again. Zenimax, you have abandoned your loyal ESO community and I hope someone there will wake up and demand a change. It is only a 10 year "old" game and it would have a lot to offer for people who want to enjoy it, if you allow it and work for it.

thank you for pointing out how bad it is.

On Thrones and Liberty all Servers are full right now and there is thousands of people running arround in the same instance with no lag.
Everyone who is playing it - (since its free probably a lot), knows im right.

And ngl the game is doing sooo much right its incredible.

As predicted this will drain the life out of eso imo.
Probably not even cross play would change something no more now at this point, at least not on PS EU, where im playing.

Sry for me being pessimistic but this is what i feel when i see my dead server.

But the combat system in TL is utter garbage. Targetting feels terrible whether on M&K or controller, and combat itself is clunky. For all its performance faults, ESO’s combat system is at least untouchable compared to classic style MMOs. Also, being locked out of making a character on the server where your friends are playing sucks. Then there’s all the P2W features…

The game looks pretty, and it performs pretty well compared to ESO, but at the end of the day, that’s all it does for me. I uninstalled it. Still haven’t reinstalled ESO, mind you… just playing non-MMOs for now to enjoy good performance AND good combat.

gronoxvx · October 3

agelonestar wrote: »

gronoxvx wrote: »

agelonestar wrote: »

gronoxvx wrote: »

Tbh ESO started going downhill when they introduced housing and realised how profitable it was with the crown store. The game is pretty much just a housing simulator now.

I acknowledge this is an opinion and you're entitled to it, but it's patently nonsense. If anything, Housing added a new player base to the game and augmented existing and future playability.

Added another aspect of play yes, however after this is when the concentration of the crown store really ramped up and the quality of the game started to diminish.

Again, this is simply not accurate - it's nothing more than an opinion, and an ill-informed one at that.

Housing has been in the game since Update 13. That's February 2017 - not far off 8 years ago. That's not far off 80% of the game's lifespan so far. That period takes in many population highs and lows, including the all-time highs so far. The idea that Housing has somehow helped to diminish the player population is obviously nonsense.

The Crown Store has been a feature of the game since Tamriel Unlimited launched in March 2015, and arguably its prominence was cemented with the launch of Crown Crates in 2016, not Housing.

The reality is that most MMOs saw a significant decline in player populations during the summer months of 2024 (to the best of our knowledge, given that many MMOs don't publish their data). Many are seeing small improvements now.

Not ill informed at all.

A large chunk of the end game population on xbox na talked about this very issue at the time and for numerous patches afterwards. Eventually a large chunk to leave the game because of it as well as numerous other issues such as not fixing bugs but release $100 plus houses instead in the crown store as zos knew that people would buy them.

Yes the crown store has been there since day one, i didnt say it only began around that time. Early on, it wasnt as predatory as it had become around the time that housing was released and the store was jam packed with housing packs for ridiculous prices.

Again, im not saying housing itself killed the game, what i mean is that around that time is when people started to see a shift in where zos put their priorities as they found their whales.

agelonestar · October 3

gronoxvx wrote: »

agelonestar wrote: »

gronoxvx wrote: »

agelonestar wrote: »

gronoxvx wrote: »

Tbh ESO started going downhill when they introduced housing and realised how profitable it was with the crown store. The game is pretty much just a housing simulator now.

I acknowledge this is an opinion and you're entitled to it, but it's patently nonsense. If anything, Housing added a new player base to the game and augmented existing and future playability.

Added another aspect of play yes, however after this is when the concentration of the crown store really ramped up and the quality of the game started to diminish.

Again, this is simply not accurate - it's nothing more than an opinion, and an ill-informed one at that.

Housing has been in the game since Update 13. That's February 2017 - not far off 8 years ago. That's not far off 80% of the game's lifespan so far. That period takes in many population highs and lows, including the all-time highs so far. The idea that Housing has somehow helped to diminish the player population is obviously nonsense.

The Crown Store has been a feature of the game since Tamriel Unlimited launched in March 2015, and arguably its prominence was cemented with the launch of Crown Crates in 2016, not Housing.

The reality is that most MMOs saw a significant decline in player populations during the summer months of 2024 (to the best of our knowledge, given that many MMOs don't publish their data). Many are seeing small improvements now.

Not ill informed at all.

A large chunk of the end game population on xbox na talked about this very issue at the time and for numerous patches afterwards. Eventually a large chunk to leave the game because of it as well as numerous other issues such as not fixing bugs but release $100 plus houses instead in the crown store as zos knew that people would buy them.

Yes the crown store has been there since day one, i didnt say it only began around that time. Early on, it wasnt as predatory as it had become around the time that housing was released and the store was jam packed with housing packs for ridiculous prices.

Again, im not saying housing itself killed the game, what i mean is that around that time is when people started to see a shift in where zos put their priorities as they found their whales.

The Crown Store launched in March 2015 - the game launched in April 2014. So, the Crown Store has not been around "since day one".

There is zero evidence that the Crown Store and/or Housing has had anything other than an overall positive impact on game population.

I really do appreciate that you have an opinion and as I said before, you're entitled to it - but your opinion is not based in anything real or factual. And to your point about ZoS priorities, you're apparently missing the point that Housing has been around through the game's biggest high population points.

You not liking housing in ESO doesn't equate to some magic causality for a lower game population that appears to be impacting all major MMOs.

MISTFORMBZZZ · October 3

Aurielle wrote: »

MISTFORMBZZZ wrote: »

Dimorphos wrote: »

I have two images here to show as a comparison and yes they could be made better but I was in hurry.

Wow group finder at approximately 22.00 is literally filled. In both mythic+ dungeons and raids got well over 100 active groups looking for people to join. And that is only one battlegroup/realm group of EU out of 16 I think there is.

While in ESO at the same time 22.00 covering all of what PC/EU has to offer and you can count the whole group finder activity with one hand fingers. There is practically nothing going on if you would look for something to do through group finder tool. And this is the reality of ESO. Ghost towns and nothing truly going on in PVE side and many guilds even those bigger ones are cancelling raids due to lack of people not joining. In cyrodiil you can ride from keep to keep without running into a single player and continue wandering alone for quite a long time. There is something going on in like 2 keeps at best even during the "rush hour". And that place is huuge and meant to be active pvp zone for hundreds of players at one time. There are many reasons why ESO is empty and why Wow is overflowing of activity.

It is a dead game ESO when you compare it to Wow, Final fantasy XIV and other mmorpg titles that actually take care of their game and listen to the community and provide content, enough good story material and activities to do. Crown store and decorating homes, that's what ESO is about it seems and it fails even in player housing because they can't offer more decorating room which community has literally cried for because raising that bar would make it unbearable for older gen. consoles. And they said some time ago they have no intentions to work on this problem/wish of community. These are the main reasons I left ESO for now and cancelled my sub. and returned to Wow and 20 years old graphics but at least that game delivers. Happy to pay the monthly fee again. Zenimax, you have abandoned your loyal ESO community and I hope someone there will wake up and demand a change. It is only a 10 year "old" game and it would have a lot to offer for people who want to enjoy it, if you allow it and work for it.

thank you for pointing out how bad it is.

On Thrones and Liberty all Servers are full right now and there is thousands of people running arround in the same instance with no lag.
Everyone who is playing it - (since its free probably a lot), knows im right.

And ngl the game is doing sooo much right its incredible.

As predicted this will drain the life out of eso imo.
Probably not even cross play would change something no more now at this point, at least not on PS EU, where im playing.

Sry for me being pessimistic but this is what i feel when i see my dead server.

But the combat system in TL is utter garbage. Targetting feels terrible whether on M&K or controller, and combat itself is clunky. For all its performance faults, ESO’s combat system is at least untouchable compared to classic style MMOs.

You can literally turn the auto targetting / chasing stuff off with 2 clicks and its like in eso. Settings , controll , look in the list below and turn everything related to the targetting off

MISTFORMBZZZ · October 3

MISTFORMBZZZ wrote: »

Dimorphos wrote: »

I have two images here to show as a comparison and yes they could be made better but I was in hurry.

Wow group finder at approximately 22.00 is literally filled. In both mythic+ dungeons and raids got well over 100 active groups looking for people to join. And that is only one battlegroup/realm group of EU out of 16 I think there is.

While in ESO at the same time 22.00 covering all of what PC/EU has to offer and you can count the whole group finder activity with one hand fingers. There is practically nothing going on if you would look for something to do through group finder tool. And this is the reality of ESO. Ghost towns and nothing truly going on in PVE side and many guilds even those bigger ones are cancelling raids due to lack of people not joining. In cyrodiil you can ride from keep to keep without running into a single player and continue wandering alone for quite a long time. There is something going on in like 2 keeps at best even during the "rush hour". And that place is huuge and meant to be active pvp zone for hundreds of players at one time. There are many reasons why ESO is empty and why Wow is overflowing of activity.

It is a dead game ESO when you compare it to Wow, Final fantasy XIV and other mmorpg titles that actually take care of their game and listen to the community and provide content, enough good story material and activities to do. Crown store and decorating homes, that's what ESO is about it seems and it fails even in player housing because they can't offer more decorating room which community has literally cried for because raising that bar would make it unbearable for older gen. consoles. And they said some time ago they have no intentions to work on this problem/wish of community. These are the main reasons I left ESO for now and cancelled my sub. and returned to Wow and 20 years old graphics but at least that game delivers. Happy to pay the monthly fee again. Zenimax, you have abandoned your loyal ESO community and I hope someone there will wake up and demand a change. It is only a 10 year "old" game and it would have a lot to offer for people who want to enjoy it, if you allow it and work for it.

thank you for pointing out how bad it is.

On Thrones and Liberty all Servers are full right now and there is thousands of people running arround in the same instance with no lag.
Everyone who is playing it - (since its free probably a lot), knows im right.

And ngl the game is doing sooo much right its incredible.

As predicted this will drain the life out of eso imo.
Probably not even cross play would change something no more now at this point, at least not on PS EU, where im playing.

Sry for me being pessimistic but this is what i feel when i see my dead server.

my average eso group experience in past year

gronoxvx · October 3

agelonestar wrote: »

gronoxvx wrote: »

agelonestar wrote: »

gronoxvx wrote: »

agelonestar wrote: »

gronoxvx wrote: »

Tbh ESO started going downhill when they introduced housing and realised how profitable it was with the crown store. The game is pretty much just a housing simulator now.

I acknowledge this is an opinion and you're entitled to it, but it's patently nonsense. If anything, Housing added a new player base to the game and augmented existing and future playability.

Added another aspect of play yes, however after this is when the concentration of the crown store really ramped up and the quality of the game started to diminish.

Again, this is simply not accurate - it's nothing more than an opinion, and an ill-informed one at that.

Housing has been in the game since Update 13. That's February 2017 - not far off 8 years ago. That's not far off 80% of the game's lifespan so far. That period takes in many population highs and lows, including the all-time highs so far. The idea that Housing has somehow helped to diminish the player population is obviously nonsense.

The Crown Store has been a feature of the game since Tamriel Unlimited launched in March 2015, and arguably its prominence was cemented with the launch of Crown Crates in 2016, not Housing.

The reality is that most MMOs saw a significant decline in player populations during the summer months of 2024 (to the best of our knowledge, given that many MMOs don't publish their data). Many are seeing small improvements now.

Not ill informed at all.

A large chunk of the end game population on xbox na talked about this very issue at the time and for numerous patches afterwards. Eventually a large chunk to leave the game because of it as well as numerous other issues such as not fixing bugs but release $100 plus houses instead in the crown store as zos knew that people would buy them.

Yes the crown store has been there since day one, i didnt say it only began around that time. Early on, it wasnt as predatory as it had become around the time that housing was released and the store was jam packed with housing packs for ridiculous prices.

Again, im not saying housing itself killed the game, what i mean is that around that time is when people started to see a shift in where zos put their priorities as they found their whales.

The Crown Store launched in March 2015 - the game launched in April 2014. So, the Crown Store has not been around "since day one".

There is zero evidence that the Crown Store and/or Housing has had anything other than an overall positive impact on game population.

I really do appreciate that you have an opinion and as I said before, you're entitled to it - but your opinion is not based in anything real or factual. And to your point about ZoS priorities, you're apparently missing the point that Housing has been around through the game's biggest high population points.

You not liking housing in ESO doesn't equate to some magic causality for a lower game population that appears to be impacting all major MMOs.

If you read my comments youd probably realise my comments have been based on my experience on the xbox na server. Its actually quite different compared to PC. The console version of eso had the crown store upon release.

I was explaining my reasoning via discussions that have been around since the housing update on console and what i experienced as an end game player in both pve and pvp. But it seems like you are demanding evidence across every platform to back up my discussion points? I really wished xbox had charts like steam etc, it would be very interesting to see where the peaks and troughs are over its history.

Just because housing has been around during some of the highest points of the game doesnt equate to anything imo. We do know that zos has everything mapped out a year or 2 in advance im terms of their content. They had some hits after that brought players to the game? Yes, but then they would lose a lot of players once the rose tinted glasses wore off and they realised how monetized the crownstore is.

Ultimately most of points are based around the crownstore itself. Housing implementation is just when people around me and even a lot of content creators noticed and even started creating content addressing it.

Aurielle · October 3

MISTFORMBZZZ wrote: »

Aurielle wrote: »

MISTFORMBZZZ wrote: »

Dimorphos wrote: »

I have two images here to show as a comparison and yes they could be made better but I was in hurry.

Wow group finder at approximately 22.00 is literally filled. In both mythic+ dungeons and raids got well over 100 active groups looking for people to join. And that is only one battlegroup/realm group of EU out of 16 I think there is.

While in ESO at the same time 22.00 covering all of what PC/EU has to offer and you can count the whole group finder activity with one hand fingers. There is practically nothing going on if you would look for something to do through group finder tool. And this is the reality of ESO. Ghost towns and nothing truly going on in PVE side and many guilds even those bigger ones are cancelling raids due to lack of people not joining. In cyrodiil you can ride from keep to keep without running into a single player and continue wandering alone for quite a long time. There is something going on in like 2 keeps at best even during the "rush hour". And that place is huuge and meant to be active pvp zone for hundreds of players at one time. There are many reasons why ESO is empty and why Wow is overflowing of activity.

It is a dead game ESO when you compare it to Wow, Final fantasy XIV and other mmorpg titles that actually take care of their game and listen to the community and provide content, enough good story material and activities to do. Crown store and decorating homes, that's what ESO is about it seems and it fails even in player housing because they can't offer more decorating room which community has literally cried for because raising that bar would make it unbearable for older gen. consoles. And they said some time ago they have no intentions to work on this problem/wish of community. These are the main reasons I left ESO for now and cancelled my sub. and returned to Wow and 20 years old graphics but at least that game delivers. Happy to pay the monthly fee again. Zenimax, you have abandoned your loyal ESO community and I hope someone there will wake up and demand a change. It is only a 10 year "old" game and it would have a lot to offer for people who want to enjoy it, if you allow it and work for it.

thank you for pointing out how bad it is.

On Thrones and Liberty all Servers are full right now and there is thousands of people running arround in the same instance with no lag.
Everyone who is playing it - (since its free probably a lot), knows im right.

And ngl the game is doing sooo much right its incredible.

As predicted this will drain the life out of eso imo.
Probably not even cross play would change something no more now at this point, at least not on PS EU, where im playing.

Sry for me being pessimistic but this is what i feel when i see my dead server.

But the combat system in TL is utter garbage. Targetting feels terrible whether on M&K or controller, and combat itself is clunky. For all its performance faults, ESO’s combat system is at least untouchable compared to classic style MMOs.

You can literally turn the auto targetting / chasing stuff off with 2 clicks and its like in eso. Settings , controll , look in the list below and turn everything related to the targetting off

Yeah, that was one of the first things I did. Still feels like utter garbage, not like ESO at all.

gronoxvx · October 3

Also, if youre wanting examples of people addressing the predatory monetization of ESO, then you should check out some of the stuff on youtube from nefas etc that have great videos about the issue and even bring housing into it.

Elsonso · October 3

AzuraFan wrote: »

Warhawke_80 wrote: »

Anyway the biggest complaint is about T&L is... you guessed it... LAG...that and a predatory Business model much worse than ESO...

I have no interest in it, but I was curious so I checked out the reviews on Steam, which are "Mixed". Some players are loving the game but there are a lot of complaints.

I'm still interested in ESO, which is why I'm hoping we'll still get meaningful story content, even if it's new quests in existing zones.

We need a really good "ESO Killer", which T&L is not. It will either motivate ZOS to do better with ESO, or people will move to it and ZOS can start thinking about when to turn off the servers. Either way, it is better for the players and will resolve the population uncertainty here.

gronoxvx · October 3

Elsonso wrote: »

AzuraFan wrote: »

Warhawke_80 wrote: »

Anyway the biggest complaint is about T&L is... you guessed it... LAG...that and a predatory Business model much worse than ESO...

I have no interest in it, but I was curious so I checked out the reviews on Steam, which are "Mixed". Some players are loving the game but there are a lot of complaints.

I'm still interested in ESO, which is why I'm hoping we'll still get meaningful story content, even if it's new quests in existing zones.

We need a really good "ESO Killer", which T&L is not. It will either motivate ZOS to do better with ESO, or people will move to it and ZOS can start thinking about when to turn off the servers. Either way, it is better for the players and will resolve the population uncertainty here.

I agree t and l wont really kill eso, however on xbox its drawing a lot of players away from ESO as theres very limited competition to ESO on console.

Hopefully it does give zos a scare so they will actually do something.

colossalvoids · October 3

It's an issue of "too much issues at once". PvP was killed off, endgame PvP is a fraction of what it was and what it meant to the players at large. Old knowledgeable players gone from public spaces and there's not enough new knowledgeable ones to replace them (content creators included here as a big source for players).

Content reduction that wasn't equal to amount of bug fixes, game is more unpolished than before, bugs and performance issues getting to ridiculous levels. People don't think ESO plus worth it and without it many can't really enjoy playing the game. Casual tes fans are also faced with less quality writing so even this subset of players getting uninterested, which not just making them "evolve" into vets or players of other content but making them quit back to Morrowind or Skyrim of all things.

And that's still just a fraction of problems as here's guilds, trading, crown store etc and etc and etc.

Veinblood1965 · October 3

I think a lot of the decline started when Templar changes occurred recently, it was enough of a slap in the face to people whose main toon was a Templar. Not saying the changes made it unplayable but hardly anyone likes it. It was made clear before it rolled out live and it rolled anyway.

Then the recent vendor changes which went to a two week listing WITHOUT a reduction in listing fees. I'm not a hardcore trader but was in three major trading guilds just to sell items I came across in-game. For the first time since I started playing I am now only in two trading guilds due to the sharp drop in sales and it taking up so much darn time relisting stuff, since less stuff was selling it was getting to be a pain. I also noticed a sharp drop in members in these trader guilds. The chats are quiet, I went through the guild roster in two of them and not many even logging in since the changes.

The last few expansions have introduced bosses that have highly annoying invulnerable phases. Gold Road was rampant with them and don't get me started on the incursions. During the recent Gold Road event it almost made me sick to my stomach to even do one incursion daily. I'm not saying the expansion wasn't really nice, it was very well done IMO except for the inv phases. I will not be pre-purchasing the next expansion (If the upcoming NB changes don't roll out) for the first time just to wait and see if there are MORE invulnerable phases. Those phases make me want to OD on Nos Drinks.

From what I hear Nightblade changes to cloak is coming which when it comes I am unsubscribing as that will be the last straw. Cloak is WHY many of us play the class. It's not smart to tinker with a core class ability in games like this. People leave. NB is my main character, I have others I play also but I'm not willing to put any more time into any of them when the rug can be pulled out from under those toons also. I don't trust ZoS not to tinker with core abilities any longer on any class if this change rolls out.

I think long term players are leaving in droves due to these issues and a few others. I fell like I don't matter to the devs they are making changes based on their vision of the game and any player input or enjoyment of these changes do not factor into it.

opethmaniac · October 3

Veinblood1965 wrote: »

From what I hear Nightblade changes to cloak is coming which when it comes I am unsubscribing as that will be the last straw. Cloak is WHY many of us play the class. It's not smart to tinker with a core class ability in games like this. People leave. NB is my main character, I have others I play also but I'm not willing to put any more time into any of them when the rug can be pulled out from under those toons also. I don't trust ZoS not to tinker with core abilities any longer on any class if this change rolls out.

I already cancelled my sub and uninstalled ESO. The nightblade changes, no changes/optimizations in cyro (BIG pvp update, lol), no ballgroup counter, tank meta, ravenwatch EU dead after introducing proc sets again...

For me as dedicated nightblade pvper this were the nails into the coffin.

Ravensilver · October 3

I still log in once a day for the reward. I did the current event, because it's a chance to stock up on resources.

But I still haven't done the West Weald questlines - either the main one or the side quests.

A friend of mine has stopped entirely. We're both housing enthusiasts and for her, it's the impossibility of getting the furnishing plans in a reasonable manner (if you're not playing 24/7 and grinding raids and vet whatever). Also, getting the necessary resources for the new plans (I'm looking at you, Apocrypha) is also almost impossible for players like us, who have full normal lives and who can play maybe an hour or two in the evening.

I'm also not interested in getting some measly story content (I don't do the high end content for a variety of reasons, both health, life and personal ones) that can be played through in a few hours, and *THEN HAVING TO WAIT A YEAR FOR NEW CONTENT* isn't quite conducive to keeping me here.

I loved the year long story arcs, because I felt there's always something new to do.

But getting a small chapter, the size of Murkmire, and then being told that I have to wait a year for more... nope. That's not doing it for me.

Also... the last 'quality of life' update was an absolute affront. Housing tours? Really? There are *so* many things that could, and *should* be adressed (if I get started here, we'll still be reading my post tomorrow) that have been brought up here in the forums again, and again, and again, and *AGAIN* by players, and are being ignored.

I feel like ZOS is currently making a game for its developers, not for its customers.

And now I'm off to WoW, because I really need to do two more delves there... ^^;;

TechMaybeHic · October 3

I've been playing TnL and enjoying it quite a bit. I don't think it competes with ESO at its best, but right now, it feels like ESO is far from its best

I think a lot of it for me personally has been class homogenuzation which really started taking hit when damage procs hit prominence. There were some weak ones that did not impact it, but as soon as they become BIS for most classes and replace what a class does, it's an impact. I was hoping class sets would help there but they are either super weak or too strong and ZOS seems minimally interested or capable of balancing at best.

Hybridization also impacted diversity. It effectively cut variety practically in half and eliminated weaknesses for some classes and exaggerated them for others and again; balancing has been minimal

Scribing I feel, while cool to some degree; going to be the last nail in the coffin. Why worry about class deficiency when you can give everyone the "opportunity" to use the same stuff. Even better if they can put unlocks within the new paid content. So it will be a success fir the business of the game, but long term not the dynamics. As you see, tge classes that then have unique utility come out on top.

To go with all of that; content has been disappointing and focus is more on repeatables than a story feed. Even PvP clearly shifted from the perpetual Cyrodiil, to instant Battlegrounds in a can. Seems they wanted even BGs to be shorter with the attempt at limited lives.

TLDR: Game has been homogenized, poorly balanced making it bland and uninteresting, and the story has been reduced. It's running on lore of the IP and community at this point.

MISTFORMBZZZ · October 3

gronoxvx wrote: »

Elsonso wrote: »

AzuraFan wrote: »

Warhawke_80 wrote: »

Anyway the biggest complaint is about T&L is... you guessed it... LAG...that and a predatory Business model much worse than ESO...

I have no interest in it, but I was curious so I checked out the reviews on Steam, which are "Mixed". Some players are loving the game but there are a lot of complaints.

I'm still interested in ESO, which is why I'm hoping we'll still get meaningful story content, even if it's new quests in existing zones.

We need a really good "ESO Killer", which T&L is not. It will either motivate ZOS to do better with ESO, or people will move to it and ZOS can start thinking about when to turn off the servers. Either way, it is better for the players and will resolve the population uncertainty here.

I agree t and l wont really kill eso, however on xbox its drawing a lot of players away from ESO as theres very limited competition to ESO on console.

Hopefully it does give zos a scare so they will actually do something.

same on ps EU, server is more dead then ever

Ravensilver · October 3

Add to all of the above the lackluster anniversary 'event' (you should see what WoW is bringing in for the 20th! All I can say is... awesome!), the increasing monetarisation of pretty much *everything*, no *real* innovation in the game (and no, that grindy new 'skill' line definitely isn't it...), the same old, same old events every year with no real new content or rewards (and most of it is so butt-ugly that I don't want it in my collections), and it doesn't surprise me that people are leaving.

Harry_Toes · October 3

valenwood_vegan wrote: »

[quote="spartaxoxo;c-8193715"...

I, just for a specific example, used to sub for the whole year but I see little value in subbing for Q3 and Q4 now...

[EDIT: Intended quote didn't work].

That's...not a bad idea.

Some of the events going on lately appeal to my FOMO spirit, but honestly when the big 'new' earnable in an event is yet another pet, skin, outfit or mount - when I have hundreds already going unused - the FOMO spirit is dwindling.

Especially when the new drops are all pretty cookie cutter at this point.

Warhawke_80 · October 3

MISTFORMBZZZ wrote: »

Aurielle wrote: »

MISTFORMBZZZ wrote: »

Dimorphos wrote: »

I have two images here to show as a comparison and yes they could be made better but I was in hurry.

Wow group finder at approximately 22.00 is literally filled. In both mythic+ dungeons and raids got well over 100 active groups looking for people to join. And that is only one battlegroup/realm group of EU out of 16 I think there is.

While in ESO at the same time 22.00 covering all of what PC/EU has to offer and you can count the whole group finder activity with one hand fingers. There is practically nothing going on if you would look for something to do through group finder tool. And this is the reality of ESO. Ghost towns and nothing truly going on in PVE side and many guilds even those bigger ones are cancelling raids due to lack of people not joining. In cyrodiil you can ride from keep to keep without running into a single player and continue wandering alone for quite a long time. There is something going on in like 2 keeps at best even during the "rush hour". And that place is huuge and meant to be active pvp zone for hundreds of players at one time. There are many reasons why ESO is empty and why Wow is overflowing of activity.

It is a dead game ESO when you compare it to Wow, Final fantasy XIV and other mmorpg titles that actually take care of their game and listen to the community and provide content, enough good story material and activities to do. Crown store and decorating homes, that's what ESO is about it seems and it fails even in player housing because they can't offer more decorating room which community has literally cried for because raising that bar would make it unbearable for older gen. consoles. And they said some time ago they have no intentions to work on this problem/wish of community. These are the main reasons I left ESO for now and cancelled my sub. and returned to Wow and 20 years old graphics but at least that game delivers. Happy to pay the monthly fee again. Zenimax, you have abandoned your loyal ESO community and I hope someone there will wake up and demand a change. It is only a 10 year "old" game and it would have a lot to offer for people who want to enjoy it, if you allow it and work for it.

thank you for pointing out how bad it is.

On Thrones and Liberty all Servers are full right now and there is thousands of people running arround in the same instance with no lag.
Everyone who is playing it - (since its free probably a lot), knows im right.

And ngl the game is doing sooo much right its incredible.

As predicted this will drain the life out of eso imo.
Probably not even cross play would change something no more now at this point, at least not on PS EU, where im playing.

Sry for me being pessimistic but this is what i feel when i see my dead server.

But the combat system in TL is utter garbage. Targetting feels terrible whether on M&K or controller, and combat itself is clunky. For all its performance faults, ESO’s combat system is at least untouchable compared to classic style MMOs.

You can literally turn the auto targetting / chasing stuff off with 2 clicks and its like in eso. Settings , controll , look in the list below and turn everything related to the targetting off

Dude no offense...but looking over your post ...you sound like a commercial for Throne and Liberty...I just don't think you're going to move a lot of people over to a pay to win Asian MMO that has gear vending machines in way of the Battlepass....as they typically don't do well in the west and T&L has bombed in Korea so I don't see it taking the west by storm.

There are MMO's in development that will give ESO major competition (Whispers of a Baldures Gate MMO?)...but T&L is not this Dark horse that you claim it is....

CatoUnchained · October 3

Warhawke_80 wrote: »

CatoUnchained wrote: »

Warhawke_80 wrote: »

CatoUnchained wrote: »

Are you talking about ESO? ....a game who's PvP hasn't seen any support or upgrades in over 5 years? We learned during the last live stream that even Brian Wheeler, ESO's PvP/combat dev very rarely even spends time in Cyrodiil. Meanwhile, essentially every update and addition to ESO since 2018 has been PvE/casual focused.

The year long content was canned to address PVP technical issues...that is huge
They can't add more content until the technical issues are addressed, yet no matter what Zenimax tries, the folks with a Pentium II and the 726 frame line will scream lag, so there is no moving forward.
The PVP player base is infinitesimally small....yet despite that all players pay for Zenimax's decision to "fix PVP"

No matter what Zenimax does, it will not be enough for the PVP community... period

In any event my post was more about the Backslapping network that keeps the masses out of it's small circle, and said network talking down to said masses like the poster I responded to...

You did realize that ESO was advertised since the beginning to have PvP being one of the primary end game activities, right?

Reading some of these posts reminds me of a youtube article Nefas did a while back. Just google nefas + casuals and you'll find it.

I'm going to try and be diplomatic as possible here...

Sure I do realize that... I also realize that there was a major backlash from the TES community the moment it was announced, that build to a crescendo when it was revealed that the developers who were creating a TES MMO were basically the same one responsible of Warhammer Age of Reckoning, but that's neither here nor there.....I think the devs did a much needed pivot when they realized the only way to save ESO was to basically make it Skyrim with friends.

Look it's not like I'm saying turn Cyrodil into a PVE only area....I'm saying that PVP in a TES game was and is and acknowledged bad idea, but we are stuck with it now and the devs are doing the best they can and are trying to support the minuscule PVP fan base despite it no doubt costing them money every month, they believe in the PVP community despite the PVP community obviously not believing in them....as popular as FFXIV is the devs admit that the PVP game actually costs them revenue...I would imagine given the low participation that it's the same way with ESO.

Western PVP MMO's for the most part just aren't a cash cow...and it saddens me that the devs at Zenimax had to learn that the hard way.

Again I'm not saying that we should can PVP I'm just saying the situation is what it is and I think the devs get too little credit for keeping a dying PVP game afloat.

Unlike the original poster...I'm not going to evoke any one content creator but anyone that dose do a google search can also see just how divisive some of them have been to the larger community....and that doesn't help the conversation at all.

You didn't answer either question, but that's fine. The point is that you purchased a game understanding that PvP was a big part of the game, then immediately proceeded to lobby to change the game to remove the PvP inherent in the game design. Rather than adapting to what the game was and accepting the game or playing something else you expected the game manufacturer to change the game to suit what you thought it should be. ESO wasn't what I thought it would be either. I wanted Skyrim with friends. It turns out ESO is, or was, WAY better than skyrim with friends. That was until housing, companions, ToT and casuals who can't tolerate competition demanded the game be changed to suit them to the detriment of everyone who loved ESO as it was built.

MISTFORMBZZZ · October 3

Warhawke_80 wrote: »

MISTFORMBZZZ wrote: »

Aurielle wrote: »

MISTFORMBZZZ wrote: »

Dimorphos wrote: »

I have two images here to show as a comparison and yes they could be made better but I was in hurry.

Wow group finder at approximately 22.00 is literally filled. In both mythic+ dungeons and raids got well over 100 active groups looking for people to join. And that is only one battlegroup/realm group of EU out of 16 I think there is.

While in ESO at the same time 22.00 covering all of what PC/EU has to offer and you can count the whole group finder activity with one hand fingers. There is practically nothing going on if you would look for something to do through group finder tool. And this is the reality of ESO. Ghost towns and nothing truly going on in PVE side and many guilds even those bigger ones are cancelling raids due to lack of people not joining. In cyrodiil you can ride from keep to keep without running into a single player and continue wandering alone for quite a long time. There is something going on in like 2 keeps at best even during the "rush hour". And that place is huuge and meant to be active pvp zone for hundreds of players at one time. There are many reasons why ESO is empty and why Wow is overflowing of activity.

It is a dead game ESO when you compare it to Wow, Final fantasy XIV and other mmorpg titles that actually take care of their game and listen to the community and provide content, enough good story material and activities to do. Crown store and decorating homes, that's what ESO is about it seems and it fails even in player housing because they can't offer more decorating room which community has literally cried for because raising that bar would make it unbearable for older gen. consoles. And they said some time ago they have no intentions to work on this problem/wish of community. These are the main reasons I left ESO for now and cancelled my sub. and returned to Wow and 20 years old graphics but at least that game delivers. Happy to pay the monthly fee again. Zenimax, you have abandoned your loyal ESO community and I hope someone there will wake up and demand a change. It is only a 10 year "old" game and it would have a lot to offer for people who want to enjoy it, if you allow it and work for it.

thank you for pointing out how bad it is.

On Thrones and Liberty all Servers are full right now and there is thousands of people running arround in the same instance with no lag.
Everyone who is playing it - (since its free probably a lot), knows im right.

And ngl the game is doing sooo much right its incredible.

As predicted this will drain the life out of eso imo.
Probably not even cross play would change something no more now at this point, at least not on PS EU, where im playing.

Sry for me being pessimistic but this is what i feel when i see my dead server.

But the combat system in TL is utter garbage. Targetting feels terrible whether on M&K or controller, and combat itself is clunky. For all its performance faults, ESO’s combat system is at least untouchable compared to classic style MMOs.

You can literally turn the auto targetting / chasing stuff off with 2 clicks and its like in eso. Settings , controll , look in the list below and turn everything related to the targetting off

Dude no offense...but looking over your post ...you sound like a commercial for Throne and Liberty...I just don't think you're going to move a lot of people over to a pay to win Asian MMO that has gear vending machines in way of the Battlepass....as they typically don't do well in the west and T&L has bombed in Korea so I don't see it taking the west by storm.

There are MMO's in development that will give ESO major competition (Whispers of a Baldures Gate MMO?)...but T&L is not this Dark horse that you claim it is....

Glad you wrote no offense otherwise i would be offended.

Im in this community for 10 years actively playing the game and im affraid i spend like 15 grand in eso.
Im balls deep in eso.
So im really fed up over the current state.

Im dissapointed and angry over the let down of the server im playing.

Its not playable for me anymore because there are no people anymore.

Most of us switched to other games or dont play anymore together at all anymore.

Do with this info what you want dude, be happy as long your server is active and when its not anymore remember some stranger in the forum was complaining 2 years ago already, about something needs to be done.