Do you think things have gotten too Loud and Flashy?

spartaxoxo

No

BretonMage wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

BretonMage wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

100% visibility is factually less more than 90% visibility. The item currently has 100% visibility. Any number lower than that is less.

Refusal to engage with why someone bought it doesn't change it. Y'all don't buy things to show off. Others do.

Edit: math error

I disagree that these people buy the cosmetics to be visible. I believe they buy them to be impressive or admired. Furthermore, if they wanted to cause physical discomfort with their cosmetics, they would be trolling anyway and not entitled to any compensation.

As a RL example, I wear perfume to smell nice to others, but there are some people with allergies to perfume. I think it would be unreasonable to expect those people to continue smelling said perfume if it causes them discomfort, and if there was a button irl to avoid this I'd love it, not expect them to suffer through it.

First of all, they can't impress people or have their cosmetic admired if nobody else can see it. That's just not how showing things off works, on a physical level. I have literally met people who buy cosmetics, in part, to show off. There are factually show offs that exist in this world.

I'm not saying there should be no button. Let's use your perfume analogy. Someone goes to JCPenney to buy perfume, because in this analogy, perfume can be refunded.

Dale wears perfume to an office. They want to smell nice to people at work. The boss tells them they can't wear it anymore. The person returns the perfume and gets a refund. The coworkers not wanting to smell perfume is reasonable.

The coworkers then go to JCPenny and do everything in their power to convince JCPennny not to give this person a refund. They literally tell the manager that Dale wore perfume they didn't like, so they better not give it to him.

Saying that JCPenney better not give him a refund for his perfume is spiteful.

Dale is already not wearing it to the office. The coworkers already don't have to smell. There is zero reason they should have a problem with Dale refunding a product he cannot use for the purpose he bought it.

I'm getting a bit confused; perhaps we're talking at cross purposes. I thought the toggle was for people with sensitivities to use on their end to reduce their own exposure to these effects. So the effects would only be invisible to those who toggle them off, and others can continue enjoying and admiring the flashy effects. Like what they have done with pets near crafting stations; visible to all except those who toggle them off. There would be no loss of potential admiration (people who dislike these effects would not admire them anyway).

I don't know if it's even possible to obscure special animations individually. And if it could only be applied globally, of course I would support compensation for a change on that scale, though I seriously doubt it would ever come to that. I do know a lot of people love showing off their cosmetics.

There's a couple of suggestions floating around. One of them is to make it so that those effects are only visible to the user. So, we'd only see our own effects. The other is a toggle so they don't have to see it.

There's also the separate idea that regardless of which route is selected, it's important that people who bought the item to show off shouldn't get a refund.

My point you were earlier replying to was that people who bought the item to show off, and thus no longer want the item after this is applied, should be able to get one. I also stated I supported people being able to opt out. There's a lot of bad faith debate trying to falsely label me as unsupportive of a toggle and harping on that, after I noted that can't see a good reason outside of spite that they shouldn't be able to get a refund should those two changes occurred. And just not answering as to why there shouldn't be a refund.

It frankly just confirms to me there is not a good reason. If someone bought the mount specifically to show off, and this change negatively impacted their ability to do so, then they should be able to get a refund. They'd lose the item and get their money back. 🤷🏿‍♀️


I'd be cool with either solution, so long as the show offs got their money back.

Syldras

Yes

BretonMage wrote: »

I disagree that these people buy the cosmetics to be visible. I believe they buy them to be impressive or admired. Furthermore, if they wanted to cause physical discomfort with their cosmetics, they would be trolling anyway and not entitled to any compensation.
As a RL example, I wear perfume to smell nice to others, but there are some people with allergies to perfume. I think it would be unreasonable to expect those people to continue smelling said perfume if it causes them discomfort, and if there was a button irl to avoid this I'd love it, not expect them to suffer through it.

I agree with you.

To make it clear beforehand: I have no clue about US laws and especially US customer rights. Europeans usually get the impression that they have an extent that we find unusual; but then again, the news probably only mention the most extraordinary cases, so the view we get may be biased.

That said, in my country it would be completely impossible to demand a refund because some other players get the option not to look at some in-game item one has bought. One pays for the use of the item, to see it on one's screen, and that's it. Whatever other people decide to do is not part of one's rights. One can't buy visibility to others or even admiration. Every laywer would shake their head if someone went to them and complained that other people could decide to change their setting not to see at their shiny mount, so maybe not 100% of other players see it, but only 70%. That's not a diminishment of an item's worth because you can still see it just fine, and that's all you have bought. The reason why you bought it doesn't matter legally, that's your personal problem, but not part of the contract.

Let alone when the option to toggle visibility is an accessibily matter and people use it because of medical reasons. What kind of mindset is that even, to feel aggrieved because people with ophthalmic or neurological issues get the possibility to avoid getting headaches caused by your item's flashing effects? Should that mindset be supported?

While I can agree that the choice of mount and what colours or designs one prefers is a question of personal taste and not of age, demanding a refund because one's not able to annoy other people having health issues with it does indeed make it look like someone has the mindset of an 8-year-old. A badly brought up one. In my country it is expected from adults to be thoughtful and have regards for people with health problems, even if it means to let go of your ego for once. Even if you might theoretically be in a position where you could insist on your rights, people would still regard you a bad person if you did, if that behavior causes problem to people with illnesses or disabilities (A more common example: Someone has a private bench in front of their house, directly at the road, with no fence. They are the owner, so they can decide who might use it and who not. If some elderly lady with crutches sits down on it because she is exhausted, it may be your legal right to evict her, but still nearly 100% of people would condemn you for it).

Also: Don't things in ESO change all the time? Redguard armor, skill animations, class changes? If it would be possible to demand a refund for every change, ZOS would be broke by now.

EdjeSwift

No

Syldras wrote: »

That said, in my country it would be completely impossible to demand a refund because some other players get the option not to look at some in-game item one has bought. One pays for the use of the item, to see it on one's screen, and that's it. Whatever other people decide to do is not part of one's rights. One can't buy visibility to others or even admiration. Every laywer would shake their head if someone went to them and complained that other people could decide to change their setting not to see at their shiny mount, so maybe not 100% of other players see it, but only 70%. That's not a diminishment of an item's worth because you can still see it just fine, and that's all you have bought. The reason why you bought it doesn't matter legally, that's your personal problem, but not part of the contract.

In the United States you can demand a refund for any reason. The crux is whether that demand will be fulfilled. There is no hard or fast law on refunds. The legendary Costco refund policy is a fine example of refund policy freedom while others have the NO REFUNDS EVER policy. As for your comment on lawyers, I know a number of lawyers who would take that case because there's always a chance provided there isn't already legal precedent.

SilverBride

Yes

spartaxoxo wrote: »

...I noted that can't see a good reason outside of spite that they shouldn't be able to get a refund...

It is not spiteful to believe that a refund is not justified for something that still works exactly as it was presented. The fact that players that do not appreciate loud and flashy things may be able to block these effects, at least in towns, does not change the item.

I find it very unreasonable for a player to expect every other player to be forced to notice them and their purchase. These items should be purchased for the player's own enjoyment, and are not advertised as attention seeking devices. If the player wants them for that reason, that is their expectation, not the stated purpose of the item.

spartaxoxo

No

Syldras wrote: »

Also: Don't things in ESO change all the time? Redguard armor, skill animations, class changes? If it would be possible to demand a refund for every change, ZOS would be broke by now.

Cosmetic items do not change. It has been their officially stated policy since the Redguard armor changes.

In your country, an item's functionality not playing a role in whether or not someone can receive a refund makes sense. So, it impacts your view of the morality of getting one. Thanks for the explanation, that makes sense.

Personally, I don't see any reason to judge someone for wanting a refund if the item doesn't work the way they wanted it to. Other customers are in no way negatively impacted by your refund (unlike the bench example) so I wouldn't see it as any bigger than someone returning a dress because people your friends thought it was ugly. That's something you are able to do here

spartaxoxo

No

SilverBride wrote: »

It is not spiteful to believe that a refund is not justified for something that still works exactly as it was presented.

It is currently presented as something that is visible to everyone. They even sell emotes that facilitate showing it off. Showing off is part of the feature of the item.

I find it very unreasonable for a player to expect every other player to be forced to notice them and their purchase

Good thing that I stated the opposite multiple times. I ask that any further replies to me do not imply that I believe the opposite of what I have stated several times.

SilverBride

Yes

spartaxoxo wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

It is not spiteful to believe that a refund is not justified for something that still works exactly as it was presented.

That's not true. It is currently presented as something that works for everyone.

It does work for everyone. Everyone that buys and uses it. Not everyone that may happen to be near the person using it.

spartaxoxo

No

SilverBride wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

It is not spiteful to believe that a refund is not justified for something that still works exactly as it was presented.

That's not true. It is currently presented as something that works for everyone.

It does work for everyone. Everyone that buys and uses it. Not everyone that may happen to be near the person using it.

It plays it's sound on the channel everyone can hear. It doesn't play it's sound only to you. That's how it works.

BretonMage

Yes

spartaxoxo wrote: »

BretonMage wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

BretonMage wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

100% visibility is factually less more than 90% visibility. The item currently has 100% visibility. Any number lower than that is less.

Refusal to engage with why someone bought it doesn't change it. Y'all don't buy things to show off. Others do.

Edit: math error

I disagree that these people buy the cosmetics to be visible. I believe they buy them to be impressive or admired. Furthermore, if they wanted to cause physical discomfort with their cosmetics, they would be trolling anyway and not entitled to any compensation.

As a RL example, I wear perfume to smell nice to others, but there are some people with allergies to perfume. I think it would be unreasonable to expect those people to continue smelling said perfume if it causes them discomfort, and if there was a button irl to avoid this I'd love it, not expect them to suffer through it.

First of all, they can't impress people or have their cosmetic admired if nobody else can see it. That's just not how showing things off works, on a physical level. I have literally met people who buy cosmetics, in part, to show off. There are factually show offs that exist in this world.

I'm not saying there should be no button. Let's use your perfume analogy. Someone goes to JCPenney to buy perfume, because in this analogy, perfume can be refunded.

Dale wears perfume to an office. They want to smell nice to people at work. The boss tells them they can't wear it anymore. The person returns the perfume and gets a refund. The coworkers not wanting to smell perfume is reasonable.

The coworkers then go to JCPenny and do everything in their power to convince JCPennny not to give this person a refund. They literally tell the manager that Dale wore perfume they didn't like, so they better not give it to him.

Saying that JCPenney better not give him a refund for his perfume is spiteful.

Dale is already not wearing it to the office. The coworkers already don't have to smell. There is zero reason they should have a problem with Dale refunding a product he cannot use for the purpose he bought it.

I'm getting a bit confused; perhaps we're talking at cross purposes. I thought the toggle was for people with sensitivities to use on their end to reduce their own exposure to these effects. So the effects would only be invisible to those who toggle them off, and others can continue enjoying and admiring the flashy effects. Like what they have done with pets near crafting stations; visible to all except those who toggle them off. There would be no loss of potential admiration (people who dislike these effects would not admire them anyway).

I don't know if it's even possible to obscure special animations individually. And if it could only be applied globally, of course I would support compensation for a change on that scale, though I seriously doubt it would ever come to that. I do know a lot of people love showing off their cosmetics.

There's a couple of suggestions floating around. One of them is to make it so that those effects are only visible to the user. So, we'd only see our own effects. The other is a toggle so they don't have to see it.

There's also the separate idea that regardless of which route is selected, it's important that people who bought the item to show off shouldn't get a refund.

My point you were earlier replying to was that people who bought the item to show off, and thus no longer want the item after this is applied, should be able to get one. I also stated I supported people being able to opt out. There's a lot of bad faith debate trying to falsely label me as unsupportive of a toggle and harping on that, after I noted that can't see a good reason outside of spite that they shouldn't be able to get a refund should those two changes occurred. And just not answering as to why there shouldn't be a refund.

It frankly just confirms to me there is not a good reason. If someone bought the mount specifically to show off, and this change negatively impacted their ability to do so, then they should be able to get a refund. They'd lose the item and get their money back. 🤷🏿‍♀️


I'd be cool with either solution, so long as the show offs got their money back.

Thanks for the clarification! I'm guessing maybe people who wary of the compensation idea are concerned that ZOS would be highly unlikely (or even more unlikely) to give us a toggle, if that meant they had to refund players en masse for all these cosmetics. I do think that the fairness of compensation really depends on who is able to view the effects. Only the user is able to view it -> compensation is fair. Everyone unless toggled off -> no compensation is fair.

Syldras

Yes

spartaxoxo wrote: »

In your country, an item's functionality not playing a role in whether or not someone can receive a refund makes sense. So, it impacts your view of the morality of getting one. Thanks for the explanation, that makes sense.

Functionality plays a role, but being admired or seen by others is not considered part of "functionality". Actually I have explained that in detail in the post you quoted, so I will not explain it again.

These are, in my opinion, the most important points that others have already listed:

BretonMage wrote: »

I'm getting a bit confused; perhaps we're talking at cross purposes. I thought the toggle was for people with sensitivities to use on their end to reduce their own exposure to these effects. So the effects would only be invisible to those who toggle them off, and others can continue enjoying and admiring the flashy effects. Like what they have done with pets near crafting stations; visible to all except those who toggle them off. There would be no loss of potential admiration (people who dislike these effects would not admire them anyway)

ToRelax wrote: »

You are seriously saying "some players" wouldn't have bought items if they didn't also specifically be visible to those bothered or even physically hurt by them? Who are these spiteful individuals?

If at all, my "morality" is impacted by refunding people for not being able to cause distress to others, especially people with health issues. Because where I'm from, a "right" to annoy other people cannot be bought.

There's nothing more to say for me.

SilverBride

Yes

spartaxoxo wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

It is not spiteful to believe that a refund is not justified for something that still works exactly as it was presented.

That's not true. It is currently presented as something that works for everyone.

It does work for everyone. Everyone that buys and uses it. Not everyone that may happen to be near the person using it.

It plays it's sound on the channel everyone can hear. It doesn't play it's sound only to you. That's how it works.

And that is the problem some of us would like to see a toggle for. It also doesn't state anything in the description anywhere that "everyone around the player will see and hear the effect" so it is not guaranteed that this will never change. In fact it doesn't mention other players in the description at all.

spartaxoxo

No

BretonMage wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

BretonMage wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

BretonMage wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

100% visibility is factually less more than 90% visibility. The item currently has 100% visibility. Any number lower than that is less.

Refusal to engage with why someone bought it doesn't change it. Y'all don't buy things to show off. Others do.

Edit: math error

I disagree that these people buy the cosmetics to be visible. I believe they buy them to be impressive or admired. Furthermore, if they wanted to cause physical discomfort with their cosmetics, they would be trolling anyway and not entitled to any compensation.

As a RL example, I wear perfume to smell nice to others, but there are some people with allergies to perfume. I think it would be unreasonable to expect those people to continue smelling said perfume if it causes them discomfort, and if there was a button irl to avoid this I'd love it, not expect them to suffer through it.

First of all, they can't impress people or have their cosmetic admired if nobody else can see it. That's just not how showing things off works, on a physical level. I have literally met people who buy cosmetics, in part, to show off. There are factually show offs that exist in this world.

I'm not saying there should be no button. Let's use your perfume analogy. Someone goes to JCPenney to buy perfume, because in this analogy, perfume can be refunded.

Dale wears perfume to an office. They want to smell nice to people at work. The boss tells them they can't wear it anymore. The person returns the perfume and gets a refund. The coworkers not wanting to smell perfume is reasonable.

The coworkers then go to JCPenny and do everything in their power to convince JCPennny not to give this person a refund. They literally tell the manager that Dale wore perfume they didn't like, so they better not give it to him.

Saying that JCPenney better not give him a refund for his perfume is spiteful.

Dale is already not wearing it to the office. The coworkers already don't have to smell. There is zero reason they should have a problem with Dale refunding a product he cannot use for the purpose he bought it.

I'm getting a bit confused; perhaps we're talking at cross purposes. I thought the toggle was for people with sensitivities to use on their end to reduce their own exposure to these effects. So the effects would only be invisible to those who toggle them off, and others can continue enjoying and admiring the flashy effects. Like what they have done with pets near crafting stations; visible to all except those who toggle them off. There would be no loss of potential admiration (people who dislike these effects would not admire them anyway).

I don't know if it's even possible to obscure special animations individually. And if it could only be applied globally, of course I would support compensation for a change on that scale, though I seriously doubt it would ever come to that. I do know a lot of people love showing off their cosmetics.

There's a couple of suggestions floating around. One of them is to make it so that those effects are only visible to the user. So, we'd only see our own effects. The other is a toggle so they don't have to see it.

There's also the separate idea that regardless of which route is selected, it's important that people who bought the item to show off shouldn't get a refund.

My point you were earlier replying to was that people who bought the item to show off, and thus no longer want the item after this is applied, should be able to get one. I also stated I supported people being able to opt out. There's a lot of bad faith debate trying to falsely label me as unsupportive of a toggle and harping on that, after I noted that can't see a good reason outside of spite that they shouldn't be able to get a refund should those two changes occurred. And just not answering as to why there shouldn't be a refund.

It frankly just confirms to me there is not a good reason. If someone bought the mount specifically to show off, and this change negatively impacted their ability to do so, then they should be able to get a refund. They'd lose the item and get their money back. 🤷🏿‍♀️


I'd be cool with either solution, so long as the show offs got their money back.

Thanks for the clarification! I'm guessing maybe people who wary of the compensation idea are concerned that ZOS would be highly unlikely (or even more unlikely) to give us a toggle, if that meant they had to refund players en masse for all these cosmetics. I do think that the fairness of compensation really depends on who is able to view the effects. Only the user is able to view it -> compensation is fair. Everyone unless toggled off -> no compensation is fair.

Fair enough. That's fairly reasonable. Personally, I'd support a refund in either scenario. But, I come from a country where we don't have to prove a piece of clothing fits us to get a refund. I don't buy these cosmetics to show off. But, I have bought a dress IRL and then returned them because a boyfriend didn't like it. Apparently, to some people, that's the moral equivalent of denying a cripple old woman a bench lol.

Syldras

Yes

spartaxoxo wrote: »

But, I have bought a dress IRL and then returned them because a boyfriend didn't like it. Apparently, to some people, that's the moral equivalent of denying a cripple old woman a bench lol.

Which I have never written. It was an example for how something might be a someone's right from a legal perspective, but it's still frowned upon to insist on this right.

spartaxoxo

No

Syldras wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

But, I have bought a dress IRL and then returned them because a boyfriend didn't like it. Apparently, to some people, that's the moral equivalent of denying a cripple old woman a bench lol.

Which I have never written. It was an example for how something might be a someone's right from a legal perspective, but it's still frowned upon to insist on this right.

Right. But it's being used as an example where the scenario is someone who wanted to show off, and due to a change can't show off anymore, requested a refund. I may not buy cosmetics in this game to show off. But, I have returned items because someone else didn't like it before. And that's without the company specifically changing what I purchased after I purchased it.

A lot of the way someone wanting a refund has been painted is immoral, wanting to harm others, etc. So, why use such extreme examples if not to justify the person requesting the refund as worthy of scorn?

Syldras wrote: »

If at all, my "morality" is impacted by refunding people for not being able to cause distress to others, especially people with health issues.

This was never stated. This is what I am talking about as well. I don't think anyone said they wanted to cause distress to others. They wanted to be able to show off. And if the item can't accomplish that because everyone hates it so much that zos needs to build a toggle, maybe they'd just rather not have that item.

If I was implying that at all, I wouldn't have stated on multiple occasions that people should have the right to toggle.

Syldras

Yes

The discussion is going in circles for several days now... One last time:

People might buy an item to show off. I personally don't, but I understand that some people do. And that's fine with me.

They certainly do it because they want to be admired, right? So people who would admire them for it would not disable the view of the item anyway. There is no loss for the user then, they get their desired admiration.

The only people who would use the option to disable the view would be the ones who do not enjoy it or have medical problems with it. Why would someone feel disadvantaged and needing a refund because these people get their desired peace?

spartaxoxo

No

Syldras wrote: »

The only people who would use the option to disable the view would be the ones who do not enjoy it or have medical problems with it. Why would someone feel disadvantaged and needing a refund because these people get their desired peace?

For the same reason I returned my dress when my boyfriend didn't like it. It was meant for others to enjoy. If they didn't like it, I didn't want it anymore, as it was not purchased with my own enjoyment in mind. It has zero to do with wanting to hurt people. This assumption that someone who wants a refund must be of such low character that they feel aggrieved if they can't cause headaches is precisely why I figured it had to be out of spite.

Like. Why would I support a toggle if I took offense at someone being able to prevent headaches?

Edit

It's been an underlining sentiment throughout this thread for some users. Which is why I wanted to pull it out and discuss it.

No, the point of showing off, for many people, is just to share a smile. That's why I support both a toggle and a refund. I don't want anyone to be made to be uncomfortable. And also want anyone who purchased an item for that reason and now feels bad about their purchase because of the change to be able to refunded. That way, only the people who would still be comfortable owning the mount can share with the people who like seeing it.

Syldras

Yes

spartaxoxo wrote: »

For the same reason I returned my dress when my boyfriend didn't like it. It was meant for others to enjoy. If they didn't like it, I didn't want it anymore, as it was not purchased with my own enjoyment in mind.

If it's common in the USA to return things because you dislike them (no matter for which reason), then I'm fine with it. It's just hard for me to understand why someone would lose enjoyment in their game item because maybe 20% of other players don't want to see it. Because if it's an optional toggle for people whose health is affected by flashy light effects or who really dislike them, only a minority of people would use this toggle anyway, so the majority of players would still be looking at the item and enjoying it.

spartaxoxo

No

Syldras wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

For the same reason I returned my dress when my boyfriend didn't like it. It was meant for others to enjoy. If they didn't like it, I didn't want it anymore, as it was not purchased with my own enjoyment in mind.

If it's common in the USA to return things because you dislike them (no matter for which reason), then I'm fine with it. It's just hard for me to understand why someone would lose enjoyment in their game item because maybe 20% of other players don't want to see it. Because if it's an optional toggle for people whose health is affected by flashy light effects or who really dislike them, only a minority of people would use this toggle anyway, so the majority of players would still be looking at the item and enjoying it.

Yes. In, the USA, people can and will return things simply because they no longer like it. It's usually a limited time window you can do that (although this small window is on rare occasion reopened when a developer makes a change, in the case of digital stuff).

I would imagine most of the people who ended up returning it would be those who had friends and guild mates express happiness they can turn on the toggle because they disliked the effects. I doubt most care what unknowns/unaffiliated think.

liliub17_ESO

Yes

Loud? Do you mean garish colors and such or noise?

If you mean flashy as in strobe-light, absolutely yes, and while it's been there since base game, the effects have ramped up with every DLC, it seems.

Thing is, when a "white out" screen happens in the main game (thinking Bleakrock Isle), it's for a few seconds and over. Must admit, first time that occurred, I was negatively impacted - sudden very bright white light can be a migraine trigger for some people. Now I know to look away for that quest. But when it happens elsewhere and may be the first time (for me), it catches me unaware. I also adjusted the overall brightness of both monitor and game - which is something that I haven't had to do in any other game in over twenty years.

The bright swirly skill animations can cause lag spikes, as well as visual impact in others, if there are enough players using them such as in a dragon hunt or a dolmen. Also can make it cursed hard to find the foe to target!

While pretty and I know there are those who love those bright fantasy light shows, the devs should realize there are both mechanical and physiological reasons to tone it down.

At the least, give players a toggle or other method to lesson the effects in their personal settings so their needing/wanting less flash-bang doesn't mean their fellow adventurer has to go without.

SilverBride

Yes

liliub17_ESO wrote: »

Loud? Do you mean garish colors and such or noise?

I originally was thinking of noise, but the garish colors and such are part of flashiness in my mind. So it works for both.

Syldras

Yes

liliub17_ESO wrote: »

Thing is, when a "white out" screen happens in the main game (thinking Bleakrock Isle), it's for a few seconds and over. Must admit, first time that occurred, I was negatively impacted - sudden very bright white light can be a migraine trigger for some people. Now I know to look away for that quest. But when it happens elsewhere and may be the first time (for me), it catches me unaware. I also adjusted the overall brightness of both monitor and game - which is something that I haven't had to do in any other game in over twenty years.

For me, the worst thing is the flash during scrying. But yes, if one knows when it will happen, it's possible to look away at least.

laurajf

Yes

I haven't seriously played in quite some time, after having played since 2013. This game has had many ups and downs for me over the years, causing me to take short breaks here and there due to choices made by the devs and the constant changes to my characters, but this latest break has been the longest, and I haven't missed the game like I used to.

I've been steadily losing interest due to the crappy RNG and grind in this game but lately the loud, obnoxious, bright, flashy atmosphere has really pushed me away. I used to sub for a year at a time and spend a stupid amount of money in the crown store. I stopped subbing and stopped buying crowns because this game is no longer what it used to be.

No game will ever be perfect for anyone, but we all have our limits as to what we'll "put up with" to play a game. ESO has reached those limits for me because the amount of stuff I no longer enjoy has bypassed the stuff I enjoy. I never really thought it would happen. This was the longest I've ever spent in an MMO, but it has run its course for me because of all the changes. It's sad/disappointing.

Luckily, I found other games, one in the MMO genre and a few that are not, but most of them scratch the itch that ESO scratched at one time but without all of the irritations I now have with ESO. Again, they aren't perfect, but they're more enjoyable, they reward me for my play time instead of feeling like a job as ESO now feels like, and they haven't gotten to the point where they're all flashy that ESO now is.

To each our own.

Vaqual

Yes

The thing that bothers me is that people seem to believe that crass and glowy somehow equals quality. They could also sell the most hideous and glowy mounts in the cheap reward section of the box and many people wouldn't even look at them twice, because they are really nothing special. Many just like having something that others do not have. I think a nice and credible mount in the apex section would do just as fine as one of these glowing abominations. Just spend the extra time making an actually coherent mount that doesn't just fit one particular look. The look needs to be versatile, yet grounded, clean, yet intricate. There is no reason why the designers should have to put their best efforts into flashy stuff. Clearly there is a demand for well done subtle things.

peacenote

No

SilverBride wrote: »

peacenote wrote: »

...the world is so big it's still quite possible to lose yourself in a beautiful landscape without disruption.

If these things were kept to the open world then most players wouldn't even notice them. But the fact is that these things are very disruptive in crowded cities and we need a toggle to not see others effects in towns.

It's funny how different we are (neither right nor wrong just different).

Cities are where this stuff bothers me the least! At least where I live, I expect noise and obnoxiousness in cities. So, that seems realistic to me and I can tune it out easily. As I do in real cities.

I find it much more jarring if I'm in the open world and there's a flash out of nowhere.

But even then, what I dislike the most is how hard it can be to see what is actually happening in dungeons or trials due to all of the effects. It actually can impact my performance or cause a group wipe. Which wastes people's time. Whereas the noise in the cities doesn't disrupt me as I'm staring at zone chat or a guild trader or a merchant or whatever. Even if it were to annoy me, that's as far as it would go. I could still do what I needed to do there.

But that's just me, and obviously you feel differently. Which is totally fine with me! Just sharing how I see it.

TaSheen

Other

peacenote wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

peacenote wrote: »

...the world is so big it's still quite possible to lose yourself in a beautiful landscape without disruption.

If these things were kept to the open world then most players wouldn't even notice them. But the fact is that these things are very disruptive in crowded cities and we need a toggle to not see others effects in towns.

It's funny how different we are (neither right nor wrong just different).

Cities are where this stuff bothers me the least! At least where I live, I expect noise and obnoxiousness in cities. So, that seems realistic to me and I can tune it out easily. As I do in real cities.

This is a really good point. I grew up in Vegas, so the flashbangs were something I had to learn to deal with (after living from years 1-10 in various countrified backs of beyond). I didn't live anywhere else until 1994 (so....uh wait while I do math.... 36 years in a - "mega flash environment".

But now, after 30 years (growing older of course) in a very quiet very countrified totally out of the way back of beyond (in which the only option for internet or tv is by satellite provider) you would think, would you not, that I'd be rabid about the flashbangs like others are.

I'm not, because I just don't notice them. I don't have any issues with visual stuff causing me problems, so that's likely just my luck. For those of you who DO have physical issues, medical issues - I'm very sorry that you are affected. Personally, I don't do mounts in town ever. And in any case, I don't have any real flashbangs anyway....

[Total and complete real life non-sequitur: it's edging up on July 4, and while the area where I live is interdicted against any fireworks at all, please if you have a thought to spare send it along to wish our tiny little town very good luck in not having a mega fire like we did around 7 years ago. Nope, I don't live in CA.... but the desert southwest is a tinder keg right now....]

SilverBride

Yes

peacenote wrote: »

Cities are where this stuff bothers me the least! At least where I live, I expect noise and obnoxiousness in cities. So, that seems realistic to me and I can tune it out easily. As I do in real cities.

I live in the middle of a city, close to several businesses and a very busy intersection. The traffic noises don't bother me because I expect to hear them. They are part of normal city sounds.

Exploding bright mounts and recalls that sound like dolmens are not what I am used to seeing and hearing in Tamriel cities so it really stands out, in a bad way.

g0thiCiCecReaM

Yes

Don't care about the out of combat flashiness, it's the blinding players and making it impossible to see anything during combat that bothers me the most. Blinding players should not be a mechanic of fights.

LalMirchi

Yes

The over the top flashiness does hurt my eyes, the blinding flash to white most of all. The rest of the overdone visual effects affect me as well, mostly in combat situations with a lot pf players nearby.

Sound: Why clambering onto a mount should trigger an improbable audio effect (that resembles the famous dolmen sound in volume and pressure) is totally immersion breaking. I sometimes have the pleasure to play ESO on a pretty hefty sound system but the experience is often unconvincing & underwhelming.

A toggle or other setting to turn other players visual and audio effects on or off would be ideal.

BretonMage

Yes

I just tried out the new Gold Road Recall, and it's fantastic. THIS is what the special animations should be like. Special, but not blinding. Thanks for this, ZOS.

Bammlschwamml

Yes

spartaxoxo wrote: »

I think a performance version of the game with only basic effects could be good for a variety of reasons.

Yes please!

Especially on console more options would be nice.

Something like this would save a lot more energy than the beloved new 30fps menu and pixel party environmental sustainability features (that can't be turned off btw)...

Players on last gen consoles might be able to play eso for a little longer before support ends. Ps4 players wouldn't have jet engine sounds in their living rooms while playing.

Pvp players would benefit a lot.

There are so many more reasons to give us more options to dial down effects (visual and sound), it's hard to understand why this isn't already a thing.