Do you think things have gotten too Loud and Flashy?

Syldras

Yes

AzuraFan wrote: »

But I doubt they'll provide a setting. After all, players paid for the flash, so I'm not sure it would go down well if ZOS changed something people paid for. Even if they only change it so that other players don't have to hear/see it. Let's face it, some people buy effects in this game to show off, and will be upset if something they paid for is changed. I think ZOS could only change it for anything going forward, so people will know what they're getting for their crowns.

It's not a mere matter of taste, though, but also a health/accessibility question. At least 3 people in this thread (including myself) have mentioned that they suffer from photophobia or that flashy effects cause them migraines. And I'm sure there are more people who are affected by this, as there are many different causes for this:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Photophobia

TaSheen

Other

AzuraFan wrote: »

Like I said earlier, I don't mind the flash most of the time, unless a player is obnoxious and mounts/recalls right next to me or in a crowded area like a crafting area.

What I really hate is when a player casts a heal on me in town, putting me into a combat stance. If ZOS allows players to turn off effects from mounts and such, then they should certainly provide a setting that prevents players from doing stuff like casting skills on people in towns (unless they're dueling).

But I doubt they'll provide a setting. After all, players paid for the flash, so I'm not sure it would go down well if ZOS changed something people paid for. Even if they only change it so that other players don't have to hear/see it. Let's face it, some people buy effects in this game to show off, and will be upset if something they paid for is changed. I think ZOS could only change it for anything going forward, so people will know what they're getting for their crowns.

I really believe it's 100% a marketing ploy. Given that, I don't expect this to get any traction from the devs.

spartaxoxo

No

Syldras wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

I'm an adult and I enjoy them. It's pretty. Most people use things in game that they find pretty. This includes the ones using more grounded designs. Most people do not purposefully make their characters completely ugly to them. Some do, but most don't. It's a fantasy game. Some people who play fantasy games enjoy fantastical things. It's really not that complicated. Personally, I find the argument that it's completely unfathomable another adult could like something I don't to be childish, much more than the mounts.

I personally don't understand the appeal of designs that feel gaudy and kitschy to me, yes. I also don't understand why some people enjoy eating escargot/snails with garlic butter, or why some travel to Tunisia to sit in their hotel and get drunk each and every day and never see anything of the country's culture or landscape before they fly back home. I understand that people are different, but I don't always understand what one person enjoys about one specific thing. And I don't have to either.

You don't have to understand. But, attributing negative qualities to something or someone you don't understand, instead of trying to understand, is a childish argument. If I know I don't understand something, I either try to understand or ignore it. I get wanting a way to disable other player effects. I think a performance version of the game with only basic effects could be good for a variety of reasons. But the idea that it's just kids and unfathomable adults is ridiculous.

SilverBride wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Some people who play fantasy games enjoy fantastical things.

I like fantastical things, such Khajiit and Argonians in Tamriel... and casting lightning from my staff to kill enemies... and Dragons and other fantastical beasts in the world.

I don't consider things like horses that explode in noise and light when someone mounts them, or a huge pink bubble appear when someone recalls to be fantastical. I find them cartoonish and disruptive to the feel of the world.

They are literally fantasy elements. Magic has been a staple of fantasy for ages.

spartaxoxo

No

AzuraFan wrote: »

But I doubt they'll provide a setting. After all, players paid for the flash, so I'm not sure it would go down well if ZOS changed something people paid for. Even if they only change it so that other players don't have to hear/see it. Let's face it, some people buy effects in this game to show off, and will be upset if something they paid for is changed. I think ZOS could only change it for anything going forward, so people will know what they're getting for their crowns.

I think if they made a general performance mode rather than only changing the mounts, it could work. Disable all other player cosmetics, flashy or not. Just show everyone that isn't your own character in basic clothing. Don't show what skills they are using unless it's an effect that you are benefitting from or can use. This could also help people that lag in trials and the like.

TaSheen

Other

spartaxoxo wrote: »

AzuraFan wrote: »

But I doubt they'll provide a setting. After all, players paid for the flash, so I'm not sure it would go down well if ZOS changed something people paid for. Even if they only change it so that other players don't have to hear/see it. Let's face it, some people buy effects in this game to show off, and will be upset if something they paid for is changed. I think ZOS could only change it for anything going forward, so people will know what they're getting for their crowns.

I think if they made a general performance mode rather than only changing the mounts, it could work. Disable all other player cosmetics, flashy or not. Just show everyone that isn't your own character in basic clothing. Don't show what skills they are using unless it's an effect that you are benefitting from or can use. This could also help people that lag in trials and the like.

I would actually LOVE that.... because it might help people who have real serious issues with lag etc. I'm not at all sure that would work for most people though....

And I don't think it would work for ZOS - because the flashbangs are actually advertisements....

Syldras

Yes

spartaxoxo wrote: »

You don't have to understand. But, attributing negative qualities to something or someone you don't understand, instead of trying to understand, is a childish argument. If I know I don't understand something, I either try to understand or ignore it. I get wanting a way to disable other player effects. I think a performance version of the game with only basic effects could be good for a variety of reasons. But the idea that it's just kids and unfathomable adults is ridiculous.

I still don't understand the problem, to be honest. Someone wrote that they think that the flashy mounts are marketed to kids/teens. There was a discussion about that and I said that I don't think so, and that there are certainly adults who like them, too, even if I personally don't understand the appeal of these mounts (and that's just a fact, not even judging anyone - I'm very certain that I have interests that 99% of people don't understand, and I don't see a problem in that either). This is all I wanted to contribute to the discussion whether these items are marketed towards a younger public or not. Is this a language issue (I'm not a native English speaker)?

SilverBride

Yes

Why there are loud and flashy mounts and recalls doesn't matter as much as the fact that they are creating issues for many other players. It wouldn't change a thing for the players that use these if the rest of us were given an option to not see them, and it would make the game much more enjoyable for many.

Having these things in my face against my will is comparable to having a neighbor that blasts bad music all day. Why should I have to be subjected to it, too?

AzuraFan

Yes

spartaxoxo wrote: »

I think if they made a general performance mode rather than only changing the mounts, it could work. Disable all other player cosmetics, flashy or not. Just show everyone that isn't your own character in basic clothing. Don't show what skills they are using unless it's an effect that you are benefitting from or can use. This could also help people that lag in trials and the like.

Only if turning on performance mode means that nobody sees your outfits or effects also. IOW, if a player doesn't want to see the cosmetics of others, then nobody sees their cosmetics either.

TaSheen wrote: »

I really believe it's 100% a marketing ploy. Given that, I don't expect this to get any traction from the devs.

Totally. ZOS won't do anything that they know will have a negative impact on crown sales.

Syldras wrote: »

It's not a mere matter of taste, though, but also a health/accessibility question. At least 3 people in this thread (including myself) have mentioned that they suffer from photophobia or that flashy effects cause them migraines. And I'm sure there are more people who are affected by this, as there are many different causes for this:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Photophobia

This will sound harsh, but the game can't cater to everyone's physical limitations/health problems. I have RSI injuries that limit what I can do in ESO. I don't expect ESO to change for me so that I can do things like stay in the Infinite Archive for hours without hurting myself (though a save feature would be nice lol). If the game is trending toward "lots of flash," you might have to see the writing on the wall, just like I am for solo play (which seems to be less of a priority in newer content). I know it sucks, but MMOs sometimes change in ways that cause people to leave.

Having said that, I'm not against a setting to turn off these effects. But ZOS would have to offer some form of compensation to players who have spent crowns on flashy mounts and recalls.

SilverBride

Yes

AzuraFan wrote: »

ZOS would have to offer some form of compensation to players who have spent crowns on flashy mounts and recalls.

Why? They would still have their flashy mounts and recalls.

AzuraFan

Yes

SilverBride wrote: »

Why? They would still have their flashy mounts and recalls.

I answered that in a previous post.

SilverBride

Yes

AzuraFan wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

Why? They would still have their flashy mounts and recalls.

I answered that in a previous post.

Their mounts and recalls would still be functional and they wouldn't see anything different. It doesn't matter why they purchased these, if they still work they aren't entitled to a refund.

Syldras

Yes

AzuraFan wrote: »

This will sound harsh, but the game can't cater to everyone's physical limitations/health problems. I have RSI injuries that limit what I can do in ESO. I don't expect ESO to change for me so that I can do things like stay in the Infinite Archive for hours without hurting myself (though a save feature would be nice lol). If the game is trending toward "lots of flash," you might have to see the writing on the wall, just like I am for solo play (which seems to be less of a priority in newer content). I know it sucks, but MMOs sometimes change in ways that cause people to leave.

I know. I just find it ironic that they emphasize accessibility so much, but then make deliberate design choices that cause people problems that weren't there beforehand. And all that because over the top flashy seems to sell well (and yes, I know that a commercial enterprise has no other purpose than sales).

Makes me wonder, by the way, how things will look in 2 or 3 years, if the mindset is "more effects, louder and brighter = better".

TaSheen

Other

AzuraFan wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

Why? They would still have their flashy mounts and recalls.

I answered that in a previous post.

You probably should have linked that post....

AzuraFan

Yes

SilverBride wrote: »

Their mounts and recalls would still be functional and they wouldn't see anything different. It doesn't matter why they purchased these, if they still work they aren't entitled to a refund.

Of course it matters why they purchased it. When buying the item, the expectation is that other players will see the mount/recall/whatever in all its glory. For some players, that's a huge part of the appeal. Some players dress up, etc. for themselves, but others partly (or wholly) do it so that other players can look at it. Just because that wouldn't be a motivating factor for you doesn't mean it's the same for everyone. We're talking about an MMO here. You don't think some players dress up and prance around and buy flashy stuff because of how it will look to other players? Really?

If ZOS were to provide a setting that prevented players from seeing the flash, that would diminish the value of the item for some players.

And I didn't say refund. I said compensation.

TaSheen

Other

AzuraFan wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

Their mounts and recalls would still be functional and they wouldn't see anything different. It doesn't matter why they purchased these, if they still work they aren't entitled to a refund.

Of course it matters why they purchased it. When buying the item, the expectation is that other players will see the mount/recall/whatever in all its glory. For some players, that's a huge part of the appeal. Some players dress up, etc. for themselves, but others partly (or wholly) do it so that other players can look at it. Just because that wouldn't be a motivating factor for you doesn't mean it's the same for everyone. We're talking about an MMO here. You don't think some players dress up and prance around and buy flashy stuff because of how it will look to other players? Really?

If ZOS were to provide a setting that prevented players from seeing the flash, that would diminish the value of the item for some players.

And I didn't say refund. I said compensation.

And would totally obviate the "marketing ploy" that's the basic point....

AzuraFan

Yes

Syldras wrote: »

I know. I just find it ironic that they emphasize accessibility so much, but then make deliberate design choices that cause people problems that weren't there beforehand.

I hear you. Because of my RSI problems I use a controller. A few patches ago ZOS switched to their own native controller support, and since then, some actions require longer button presses (mounting, crafting multiple items, to name two). Having to hold down buttons for longer aggravates my RSI, which means my play sessions have to be shorter. Before the patch, the controller problem didn't exist. So I get it. I guess I'm accepting that ZOS will do what ZOS does and it's up to me how much time/money I spend on this game as a result.

AzuraFan

Yes

TaSheen wrote: »

AzuraFan wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

Why? They would still have their flashy mounts and recalls.

I answered that in a previous post.

You probably should have linked that post....

Yes, I probably should have.

spartaxoxo

No

Syldras wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

You don't have to understand. But, attributing negative qualities to something or someone you don't understand, instead of trying to understand, is a childish argument. If I know I don't understand something, I either try to understand or ignore it. I get wanting a way to disable other player effects. I think a performance version of the game with only basic effects could be good for a variety of reasons. But the idea that it's just kids and unfathomable adults is ridiculous.

I still don't understand the problem, to be honest. Someone wrote that they think that the flashy mounts are marketed to kids/teens. There was a discussion about that and I said that I don't think so, and that there are certainly adults who like them, too, even if I personally don't understand the appeal of these mounts (and that's just a fact, not even judging anyone - I'm very certain that I have interests that 99% of people don't understand, and I don't see a problem in that either). This is all I wanted to contribute to the discussion whether these items are marketed towards a younger public or not. Is this a language issue (I'm not a native English speaker)?

Yes. There is a language issue here. Thanks for the explanation. To clarify, the "childish" language is generally a pejorative, especially when aimed at people that are known to be adults. It means someone is foolish, weak, silly, immature, etc like a child. This is why it was contrasted with "mature, discerning adults." As if someone cannot both be intelligent and mature, and also enjoy these mounts. It's mostly adults that play this game. It's an M-rated game. Everything in this game is primarily targeted towards adults.

spartaxoxo

No

SilverBride wrote: »

AzuraFan wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

Why? They would still have their flashy mounts and recalls.

I answered that in a previous post.

Their mounts and recalls would still be functional and they wouldn't see anything different. It doesn't matter why they purchased these, if they still work they aren't entitled to a refund.

Others seeing it is a function of the item. So, if someone wants a refund because the functionality of their item was drastically changed enough that the reason they purchased it is entirely destroyed, then yes, that should get them a refund.

edit

TaSheen wrote: »

And I don't think it would work for ZOS - because the flashbangs are actually advertisements....

Yeah, unfortunately, you're right about that part.

BretonMage

Yes

AzuraFan wrote: »

If ZOS were to provide a setting that prevented players from seeing the flash, that would diminish the value of the item for some players.

Can I just say that if a player wanted an option to turn off flashy effects, it means these effects produce a negative effect on them in the first place. They don't like them, and would never admire the player who has them. Let others admire the flashy animations and don't make us suffer from the flashiness, that's all we're saying.

Syldras

Yes

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Yes. There is a language issue here. Thanks for the explanation. To clarify, the "childish" language is generally a pejorative, especially when aimed at people that are known to be adults. It means someone is foolish, weak, silly, immature, etc like a child. This is why it was contrasted with "mature, discerning adults." As if someone cannot both be intelligent and mature, and also enjoy these mounts. It's mostly adults that play this game. It's an M-rated game. Everything in this game is primarily targeted towards adults.

I never used the word "childish" anywhere in this thread, though. The closest I've written is that some mounts remind me of characters/animals as seen in children's tv shows - as in cartoons created for children. Again, that's an association, not judging anyone.

Maybe you confuse me with someone else? The discussion started here, by the way:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/8139547/#Comment_8139547
As I said, the only thing I did was giving my estimation that the sparkly colorful designs are not created for children (with the same reasoning as you, btw: that this game is designed for and aimed at adults).

I try to, but I really don't get it, sorry. I guess we should leave it at this.

SilverBride

Yes

AzuraFan wrote: »

You don't think some players dress up and prance around and buy flashy stuff because of how it will look to other players?

I'm sure there are some that do but these things are sold with no guarantee that others will find them as impressive as they do... and many don't.

AzuraFan

Yes

BretonMage wrote: »

AzuraFan wrote: »

If ZOS were to provide a setting that prevented players from seeing the flash, that would diminish the value of the item for some players.

Can I just say that if a player wanted an option to turn off flashy effects, it means these effects produce a negative effect on them in the first place. They don't like them, and would never admire the player who has them. Let others admire the flashy animations and don't make us suffer from the flashiness, that's all we're saying.

Right, and I've said I'm fine with a setting, but players who bought those items would have to be compensated. Some players wouldn't have bought the items if they knew the flashy effects wouldn't be visible to other players.

I'm not against having a setting to turn the effects off. I just don't see it happening, but I could be wrong.

spartaxoxo

No

Syldras wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Yes. There is a language issue here. Thanks for the explanation. To clarify, the "childish" language is generally a pejorative, especially when aimed at people that are known to be adults. It means someone is foolish, weak, silly, immature, etc like a child. This is why it was contrasted with "mature, discerning adults." As if someone cannot both be intelligent and mature, and also enjoy these mounts. It's mostly adults that play this game. It's an M-rated game. Everything in this game is primarily targeted towards adults.

I never used the word "childish" anywhere in this thread, though. The closest I've written is that some mounts remind me of characters/animals as seen in children's tv shows - as in cartoons created for children. Again, that's an association, not judging anyone.

Maybe you confuse me with someone else? The discussion started here, by the way:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/8139547/#Comment_8139547
As I said, the only thing I did was giving my estimation that the sparkly colorful designs are not created for children (with the same reasoning as you, btw: that this game is designed for and aimed at adults).

I try to, but I really don't get it, sorry. I guess we should leave it at this.

I wasn't trying to call you out in particular. But moreso the sentiment (the sentiment being expressed by others is clearly that people who like them are childish even without the use of the word) expressed in this thread. Your post about not being able to understand how an adult could like it seemed like a good one because it initially allowed me to explain why adults could like it without needing to pick on a post actually using the term. I was basically hoping to avoid a language discussion and instead discuss why that logic didn't make sense. Clearly, that didn't work out as I had hoped. But I wanted to focus more on the sentiment throughout this thread rather than any individual. Obviously, I missed the mark though. Sorry about that.

AzuraFan

Yes

SilverBride wrote: »

AzuraFan wrote: »

You don't think some players dress up and prance around and buy flashy stuff because of how it will look to other players?

I'm sure there are some that do but these things are sold with no guarantee that others will find them as impressive as they do... and many don't.

There are never any guarantees about how other players will react to a cosmetic because it's a matter of taste. But that's not the point. The point is that other players will see the cosmetic in all its glory, flash and all.

I understand that you want a setting so that you don't have to see the flash. I have no problem with that. I don't understand why you'd begrudge some compensation for players who bought items with the expectation that ALL players would see the flash. After all, you're asking for a setting to improve your enjoyment of the game by taking away some of the enjoyment of the items they bought. Why would you deny compensation to players who spent money on these items? It comes across as petty to me, but maybe I'm missing something.

BretonMage

Yes

Wait, why would players expect compensation if people who dislike flashy effects have the option to avoid them? I mean, isn't the point of special animations to garner admiration rather than irritation?

SilverBride

Yes

Compensation would be justified if the items were not working as intended, but not just because some others choose to avoid loud and flashy effects.

spartaxoxo

No

SilverBride wrote: »

Compensation would be justified if the items were not working as intended, but not just because some others choose to avoid loud and flashy effects.

The item isn't working as intended. The point is to show it off. If you can't do that then the item is not working as intended.

katanagirl1

Other

I voted on this but it’s been a while, I think I chose “other”.

Yes I think mounts are too flashy, but I like the dark anchor recall. Everyone’s likes and dislikes are different.

I don’t think it matters as long as I could have the option to not be blinded by the void welwa or the comet smashing quasigriff at ground zero.

I don’t buy the fantasy argument either, these mounts are not something we see in the game, but we do see dark anchors.

SilverBride

Yes

spartaxoxo wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

Compensation would be justified if the items were not working as intended, but not just because some others choose to avoid loud and flashy effects.

The item isn't working as intended. The point is to show it off. If you can't do that then the item is not working as intended.

The point should be to enjoy it themselves. And they can still show it off to all the players that don't choose to block those effects, anyway. But no one can expect everyone to participate in something they find annoying, or be compensated because every other player doesn't like their mount or recall.