Do you think things have gotten too Loud and Flashy?

Amottica

No

spartaxoxo wrote: »

BretonMage wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

BretonMage wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

100% visibility is factually less more than 90% visibility. The item currently has 100% visibility. Any number lower than that is less.

Refusal to engage with why someone bought it doesn't change it. Y'all don't buy things to show off. Others do.

Edit: math error

I disagree that these people buy the cosmetics to be visible. I believe they buy them to be impressive or admired. Furthermore, if they wanted to cause physical discomfort with their cosmetics, they would be trolling anyway and not entitled to any compensation.

As a RL example, I wear perfume to smell nice to others, but there are some people with allergies to perfume. I think it would be unreasonable to expect those people to continue smelling said perfume if it causes them discomfort, and if there was a button irl to avoid this I'd love it, not expect them to suffer through it.

First of all, they can't impress people or have their cosmetic admired if nobody else can see it. That's just not how showing things off works, on a physical level. I have literally met people who buy cosmetics, in part, to show off. There are factually show offs that exist in this world.

I'm not saying there should be no button. Let's use your perfume analogy. Someone goes to JCPenney to buy perfume, because in this analogy, perfume can be refunded.

Dale wears perfume to an office. They want to smell nice to people at work. The boss tells them they can't wear it anymore. The person returns the perfume and gets a refund. The coworkers not wanting to smell perfume is reasonable.

The coworkers then go to JCPenny and do everything in their power to convince JCPennny not to give this person a refund. They literally tell the manager that Dale wore perfume they didn't like, so they better not give it to him.

Saying that JCPenney better not give him a refund for his perfume is spiteful.

Dale is already not wearing it to the office. The coworkers already don't have to smell. There is zero reason they should have a problem with Dale refunding a product he cannot use for the purpose he bought it.

I'm getting a bit confused; perhaps we're talking at cross purposes. I thought the toggle was for people with sensitivities to use on their end to reduce their own exposure to these effects. So the effects would only be invisible to those who toggle them off, and others can continue enjoying and admiring the flashy effects. Like what they have done with pets near crafting stations; visible to all except those who toggle them off. There would be no loss of potential admiration (people who dislike these effects would not admire them anyway).

I don't know if it's even possible to obscure special animations individually. And if it could only be applied globally, of course I would support compensation for a change on that scale, though I seriously doubt it would ever come to that. I do know a lot of people love showing off their cosmetics.

There's a couple of suggestions floating around. One of them is to make it so that those effects are only visible to the user. So, we'd only see our own effects. The other is a toggle so they don't have to see it.

There's also the separate idea that regardless of which route is selected, it's important that people who bought the item to show off shouldn't get a refund.

My point you were earlier replying to was that people who bought the item to show off, and thus no longer want the item after this is applied, should be able to get one. I also stated I supported people being able to opt out. There's a lot of bad faith debate trying to falsely label me as unsupportive of a toggle and harping on that, after I noted that can't see a good reason outside of spite that they shouldn't be able to get a refund should those two changes occurred. And just not answering as to why there shouldn't be a refund.

It frankly just confirms to me there is not a good reason. If someone bought the mount specifically to show off, and this change negatively impacted their ability to do so, then they should be able to get a refund. They'd lose the item and get their money back. 🤷🏿‍♀️


I'd be cool with either solution, so long as the show offs got their money back.

And that is where the problem lies. I do not expect those who are really annoyed by "flashing" to agree because they do not want to see it, but those who purchased the mounts want to show off. It is a big reason why they purchased it.

As such, the best way to "turn off" the effect is to make it part of a lower-level graphics setting but not a toggle unto itself. That way, Zenimax can say it is to help players with lower-level machines and not remove or actually take anything away. Sure, it means getting a little less out of some area of graphics, but anyone who really wants to avoid such spectacular effects would likely not mind such a small tradeoff.

spartaxoxo

No

Amottica wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

BretonMage wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

BretonMage wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

100% visibility is factually less more than 90% visibility. The item currently has 100% visibility. Any number lower than that is less.

Refusal to engage with why someone bought it doesn't change it. Y'all don't buy things to show off. Others do.

Edit: math error

I disagree that these people buy the cosmetics to be visible. I believe they buy them to be impressive or admired. Furthermore, if they wanted to cause physical discomfort with their cosmetics, they would be trolling anyway and not entitled to any compensation.

As a RL example, I wear perfume to smell nice to others, but there are some people with allergies to perfume. I think it would be unreasonable to expect those people to continue smelling said perfume if it causes them discomfort, and if there was a button irl to avoid this I'd love it, not expect them to suffer through it.

First of all, they can't impress people or have their cosmetic admired if nobody else can see it. That's just not how showing things off works, on a physical level. I have literally met people who buy cosmetics, in part, to show off. There are factually show offs that exist in this world.

I'm not saying there should be no button. Let's use your perfume analogy. Someone goes to JCPenney to buy perfume, because in this analogy, perfume can be refunded.

Dale wears perfume to an office. They want to smell nice to people at work. The boss tells them they can't wear it anymore. The person returns the perfume and gets a refund. The coworkers not wanting to smell perfume is reasonable.

The coworkers then go to JCPenny and do everything in their power to convince JCPennny not to give this person a refund. They literally tell the manager that Dale wore perfume they didn't like, so they better not give it to him.

Saying that JCPenney better not give him a refund for his perfume is spiteful.

Dale is already not wearing it to the office. The coworkers already don't have to smell. There is zero reason they should have a problem with Dale refunding a product he cannot use for the purpose he bought it.

I'm getting a bit confused; perhaps we're talking at cross purposes. I thought the toggle was for people with sensitivities to use on their end to reduce their own exposure to these effects. So the effects would only be invisible to those who toggle them off, and others can continue enjoying and admiring the flashy effects. Like what they have done with pets near crafting stations; visible to all except those who toggle them off. There would be no loss of potential admiration (people who dislike these effects would not admire them anyway).

I don't know if it's even possible to obscure special animations individually. And if it could only be applied globally, of course I would support compensation for a change on that scale, though I seriously doubt it would ever come to that. I do know a lot of people love showing off their cosmetics.

There's a couple of suggestions floating around. One of them is to make it so that those effects are only visible to the user. So, we'd only see our own effects. The other is a toggle so they don't have to see it.

There's also the separate idea that regardless of which route is selected, it's important that people who bought the item to show off shouldn't get a refund.

My point you were earlier replying to was that people who bought the item to show off, and thus no longer want the item after this is applied, should be able to get one. I also stated I supported people being able to opt out. There's a lot of bad faith debate trying to falsely label me as unsupportive of a toggle and harping on that, after I noted that can't see a good reason outside of spite that they shouldn't be able to get a refund should those two changes occurred. And just not answering as to why there shouldn't be a refund.

It frankly just confirms to me there is not a good reason. If someone bought the mount specifically to show off, and this change negatively impacted their ability to do so, then they should be able to get a refund. They'd lose the item and get their money back. 🤷🏿‍♀️


I'd be cool with either solution, so long as the show offs got their money back.

And that is where the problem lies. I do not expect those who are really annoyed by "flashing" to agree because they do not want to see it, but those who purchased the mounts want to show off. It is a big reason why they purchased it.

As such, the best way to "turn off" the effect is to make it part of a lower-level graphics setting but not a toggle unto itself. That way, Zenimax can say it is to help players with lower-level machines and not remove or actually take anything away. Sure, it means getting a little less out of some area of graphics, but anyone who really wants to avoid such spectacular effects would likely not mind such a small tradeoff.

I also think such a mode would be good because it would improve performance in Cyrodiil and Trials. Some competitive games offer this minimal setting type thing and people will use it specifically to gain the performance improvement.

They can market it as that and then people who just hate flashy mounts and the people who ride them can turn that off too.

Put in the accessibility settings and include a way to change crouch animation and hide spiders as well, and you've solved a lot of community issues.

SilverBride

Yes

Players are not responsible to notice other players and give them attention. If a player purchases a flashy mount or skin with the expectation that it will bring the admiration and envy of others, well that is not in the description.

I do not appreciate having these immersion breaking cartoonish things destroying what was once a more believable fantasy world. And I really don't like being told I can't toggle them off because that would stop other players from being noticed.

Amottica

No

SilverBride wrote: »

Players are not responsible to notice other players and give them attention. If a player purchases a flashy mount or skin with the expectation that it will bring the admiration and envy of others, well that is not in the description.

I do not appreciate having these immersion breaking cartoonish things destroying what was once a more believable fantasy world. And I really don't like being told I can't toggle them off because that would stop other players from being noticed.

That's correct, and I would be surprised if anyone suggested that those who have purchased the pricey, flashy mounts expect the admiration and envy of others. Heck, I could care less about what mount someone is using. It is how well they play the game that matters to me.

Renato90085

why not use addon hide them?

spartaxoxo

No

SilverBride wrote: »

Players are not responsible to notice other players and give them attention. If a player purchases a flashy mount or skin with the expectation that it will bring the admiration and envy of others, well that is not in the description.

I do not appreciate having these immersion breaking cartoonish things destroying what was once a more believable fantasy world. And I really don't like being told I can't toggle them off because that would stop other players from being noticed.

Nobody said any individual player is responsible for giving another player attention. Regardless if some players don't like seeing other people's mounts, there are others that do. Sharing how your cosmetic looks and appreciating others looks is one of the functions of the mounts. It's been the function for 10 years. And many people enjoy seeing cool looks and showing their own cool look. There is even a pinned fashion thread that's been going strong for a long time.

Also, flashy mounts have been in the game since the year console launched but IDK about PC. So, they may break headcanons but they don't break the lore of the game as it's always been there. That's probably the real reason that they don't have a toggle. The devs have had them here since a long time and it's really only recently they have hit the point that so many people are asking for one.

SilverBride

Yes

It is not fair to expect players that do not like the loud bright flashy effects to have to use a low graphic setting and have their entire game look bad rather than providing a toggle.

The real solution, though, is to just stop with the cartoon effects. This new mount is so far over the top it makes me cringe to think what's next.

spartaxoxo

No

SilverBride wrote: »

It is not fair to expect players that do not like the loud bright flashy effects to have to use a low graphic setting and have their entire game look bad rather than providing a toggle.

The real solution, though, is to just stop with the cartoon effects. This new mount is so far over the top it makes me cringe to think what's next.

They aren't cartoon effects. They are explicitly magical effects, lore wise. And I don't think it's fair to stop making them just because some users don't like them.

Nobody is calling for an end to realistic mounts.

The low graphic setting mode would have more benefits than hiding the way other people look. I doubt that the devs would put in time creating a toggle purely to hide art a user doesn't like. But, if they can do that while addressing other issues like accessibility and performance, then they'd be more likely to implement it.

SilverBride

Yes

spartaxoxo wrote: »

They aren't cartoon effects. They are explicitly magical effects...

They are exactly what is seen in children's programming. Loud noises, bright glowing flashy colors, bursts of activity... all the things that make up cartoons.

Those things are not magical. Magic is casting a spell to defeat an enemy, or healing players, or traveling though wayshrines, etc.. It is not disrupting everyone around by getting on a mount that explodes in noise and bright flashes of light.

vsrs_au

Renato90085 wrote: »

why not use addon hide them?

I don't think addons can do that (but perhaps one of the long-term addon authors such as @Baertram could correct me on that). If addons could modify the visual appearance of other characters, it would (in my opinion, anyway) be open to exploitation, because it might offer players an unfair advantage in PvP.

Renato90085

vsrs_au wrote: »

Renato90085 wrote: »

why not use addon hide them?

I don't think addons can do that (but perhaps one of the long-term addon authors such as @Baertram could correct me on that). If addons could modify the visual appearance of other characters, it would (in my opinion, anyway) be open to exploitation, because it might offer players an unfair advantage in PvP.

I use the hidden group addon for trifectas
when ppl swich bar or i port a new place i cant see them and them mount

Amottica

No

spartaxoxo wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

It is not fair to expect players that do not like the loud bright flashy effects to have to use a low graphic setting and have their entire game look bad rather than providing a toggle.

The real solution, though, is to just stop with the cartoon effects. This new mount is so far over the top it makes me cringe to think what's next.

They aren't cartoon effects. They are explicitly magical effects, lore wise. And I don't think it's fair to stop making them just because some users don't like them.

Nobody is calling for an end to realistic mounts.

The low graphic setting mode would have more benefits than hiding the way other people look. I doubt that the devs would put in time creating a toggle purely to hide art a user doesn't like. But, if they can do that while addressing other issues like accessibility and performance, then they'd be more likely to implement it.

This. Completly this.

Another reason why Zenimax would not want to hide the effects of these mounts because some will want to get the mount when they see it. If Zenimax permitted us to hide such things then it is reasonable to expect a decrease in revenue.

That is probably not good for business and job security, and business people make decisions like this.

spartaxoxo

No

SilverBride wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

They aren't cartoon effects. They are explicitly magical effects...

They are exactly what is seen in children's programming. Loud noises, bright glowing flashy colors, bursts of activity... all the things that make up cartoons.

Those things are not magical. Magic is casting a spell to defeat an enemy, or healing players, or traveling though wayshrines, etc.. It is not disrupting everyone around by getting on a mount that explodes in noise and bright flashes of light.

There's different ways magic is depicted in media and bright, flashy effects is factually one of them. It is not the only way, and you have correctly illustrated some other examples. But it is one of the ways that magic is depicted in media. They are explicitly related to magic (and daedra, etc) in this game. That's the canon lore.

Bright flashy effects are also seen in adult programming and even IRL places. There's some pretty flashy nightclubs, for example. It's okay if you don't personally like them because that's what it reminds you of but other adults have taste that are different and that is equally valid.

SilverBride

Yes

spartaxoxo wrote: »

It's okay if you don't personally like them because that's what it reminds you of...

They absolutely come across as cartoonish and they have gotten progressively flashier and louder and more intrusive, and that is what prompted me to create this poll... To see if others noticed and felt the same. And the results speak for themselves.

Nothing is going to change my mind so let's just agree to disagree and leave it at that.

spartaxoxo

No

SilverBride wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

It's okay if you don't personally like them because that's what it reminds you of...

They absolutely come across as cartoonish and they have gotten progressively flashier and louder and more intrusive, and that is what prompted me to create this poll... To see if others noticed and felt the same. And the results speak for themselves.

Nothing is going to change my mind so let's just agree to disagree and leave it at that.

They come across that way to you but not to me. I will continue to speak about suggestions that I feel harm my gameplay experience and the end of flashy mounts is one of those things. I do not want zos to stop making them and I enjoy having them. I'm not one of those that run around for the explicit purpose of showing them off, but I do enjoy the occasional mount parades I see around towns.

They do not come across as childish to me. They come across as magical. And that is also how the devs intended them to come off.

I don't mind a toggle.

TaSheen

Other

I don't see them as "childish, cartoonish". I see them as this set of devs' way of depicting highly magical mounts in this particular game.

Do I think some of them are over the top? Yes. But that's just me. And likely my list of OTT mounts is different from others' lists.... I wouldn't be upset about a toggle. I just probably wouldn't bother with it, the way I don't bother with the "hide combat pets" one, because those don't bother me either.

Neugeniko

Other

There is just too many options, I could waste a lot of time and money. Or just spend that time with the combat build system and then the plain look becomes the alter ego to developed inner strength.

Elsonso

Yes

TaSheen wrote: »

I don't see them as "childish, cartoonish". I see them as this set of devs' way of depicting highly magical mounts in this particular game.

Do I think some of them are over the top? Yes. But that's just me. And likely my list of OTT mounts is different from others' lists.... I wouldn't be upset about a toggle. I just probably wouldn't bother with it, the way I don't bother with the "hide combat pets" one, because those don't bother me either.

I don't see them as childish or cartoonish, either. However, I also recognize that they appear as they do for the same reason that content for children has certain ... traits ... associated with it. It is just for adults, not children.

Children rarely recognize when they are being manipulated by the content they consume. I find that this is not always limited to children.

spartaxoxo

No

Elsonso wrote: »

Children rarely recognize when they are being manipulated by the content they consume. I find that this is not always limited to children.

All paid video games cosmetics are designed to get you to part with your hard earned money, regardless of color scheme. Crown crates are designed to feel the same as gambling regardless of color scheme. Oblivion, all video games, period are that way.

Syldras

Yes

spartaxoxo wrote: »

I think a world with Daedric princes running around constantly does make sense to be more colorful. I don't think muted makes any more or less sense than the one they have now.

Most Daedric Princes aren't exactly known for sparkling, neon-colored creatures with flashy effects and huge summoning explosions.

And I don't think many people would even be bothered by one Meridia-related mount (although that would probably be more bright white than colourful) or by one Sheogorath-related creature with some purple butterfly effect.

The problem is that whole Tamriel begins to look increasingly like a circus. It can't be denied that there is a big shift away from what the original art style was when this game was released.

spartaxoxo wrote: »

And things aren't going to be as rare in a multiplayer game.

I personally prefer effects to actually have some artistic significance. I don't say everything has to be muddy and dark, but things that are supposed to be special and magical by lore, or even especially dangerous and threatening, just don't stand out anymore if everything looks like this. I already gave the example with the dolmen recall - how dangerous do dolmens feel anymore if people are using a mini version of them to teleport out of the bank?

There a a lot of crown store things lately that destroy the art style of the game, the atmosphere, the narrations (dolmens everywhere!!!), and cheapen the whole experience. I do find this a concerning tendency for a game.

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Bright flashy effects are also seen in adult programming and even IRL places. There's some pretty flashy nightclubs, for example.

This is a good remark, actually: Yes, flashy effects do exist in the real world and also in places that adults attend. But not the whole world looks like this, but only limited spaces. You might see flashy effects in a disco or night club, but not in the forest, a cave, an abandoned ruin, or in the bank. I would be happy enough if it was the same in ESO

SilverBride wrote: »

I almost bought the Dark Brotherhood mount with seals for my Dark Brotherhood character. Then I took a really close look and saw the arms on the armor, and that was a deal breaker.

Funny thing actually that many mounts would look much better without the effects. Realized that when browsing a website that showcases ESO creature's (and character's) models, from the files extracted from the game, which miss the effects on those pictures.

Gabriel_H

Yes

As someone who has vision problems I would very much like the option to turn off player effects entirely. The addition of the scribed banner skill is just another layer of having to work out what the heck I'm standing in, and whether I should be or not.

spartaxoxo

No

Syldras wrote: »

Most Daedric Princes aren't exactly known for sparkling, neon-colored creatures with flashy effects and huge summoning explosions.

Fire Atronachs are pretty flashy. Daedra and Mages are where most of the flashy things come from.

Like I'd expect there to be flashy creatures in the Deadlands.

And I don't think many people would even be bothered by one Meridia-related mount (although that would probably be more bright white than colourful) or by one Sheogorath-related creature with some purple butterfly effect.

It's multiplayer game not a single player one, so there is naturally going to be more of everything.

The problem is that whole Tamriel begins to look increasingly like a circus. It can't be denied that there is a big shift away from what the original art style was when this game was released.

I guess it depends on how early you define release. I play on console and the first year or two had things like the Nightmare Corsair, Storm Atronach Mounts, Finvir's trinket, etc. I really don't think it's so much as the art changing so much as that the game has been churning this stuff out long enough and with enough variety now that tons of people have a flashy mount or animation they enjoy. So, it is way more common to run into this stuff than it used to be.

I personally prefer effects to actually have some artistic significance. I don't say everything has to be muddy and dark, but things that are supposed to be special and magical by lore, or even especially dangerous and threatening, just don't stand out anymore if everything looks like this. I already gave the example with the dolmen recall - how dangerous do dolmens feel anymore if people are using a mini version of them to teleport out of the bank?

They do have artistic significance and the devs tie almost all of this stuff in with the lore. I can see the issue with the dolmen recall, although I personally like it, but most of this stuff doesn't have that issue. People just don't like it.

There a a lot of crown store things lately that destroy the art style of the game, the atmosphere, the narrations (dolmens everywhere!!!), and cheapen the whole experience. I do find this a concerning tendency for a game.

Very few items destroy the art style of the game, imo. To each their own though. Nothing wrong with feeling like you enjoyed the existing art style and want to preserve the vibe. I can understand why some people don't like this stuff and the increased amount of it has killed their vibe. I am all for a way so that you don't have to see it because the existing art style not being pleasing is a pretty big vibe killer. It can truly spoil a game if the art style is something you don't want to see.

This is a good remark, actually: Yes, flashy effects do exist in the real world and also in places that adults attend. But not the whole world looks like this, but only limited spaces. You might see flashy effects in a disco or night club, but not in the forest, a cave, an abandoned ruin, or in the bank. I would be happy enough if it was the same in ESO

It's mostly other players. The world of Tamriel itself has limited amounts of flashy things. Mostly adventure outside of town and flashy stuff is decreased by a lot.

Celticmagick

Yes

One of the things that annoyed me most about WoW was how alien and futuristic things became, especially in regards to fashion and overall styling. I missed the leather, iron, steel, etc looks of armor and weapons. And like you, that was one of the things that attracted me to ESO. Now I'm seeing ESO heading in the same direction of WoW with flashy mount animations and over the top armor effects.

Syldras

Yes

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Fire Atronachs are pretty flashy.

If most current crown store creatures would be on a level with fire atronachs (effect- and lore-wise), I think almost no one would complain.

twev

Yes

Syldras wrote: »

I_killed_Vivec wrote: »

Early 2014 in any bank - sorcs had just discovered pulsar and set off chain pulsar reactions, each trying to out-blast the other.
Still happens today, not as much. Maybe because they nerfed it...

While that's just as annoying I see a difference between abilities and cosmetics. In a fantasy game centered around fighting (yeah, yeah, I know, you can also be a home decorator or play card games) you have to be able to use spells. There's a need to have them game-mechanic-wise. But there's no need for personal teleportation dolmens or horses that explode in a loud thundering flash when summoned.

I'm really wondering what the people at ZOS are thinking when releasing those. Of course that's a personal sentiment, but I really enjoy a consistent art style in a game. If the style is relatively realistic and the atmosphere overall calm, then every flashy noisy thing (that isn't deliberately used as a meaningful effect, as a signal for danger, etc) is a disruption to the atmosphere.

It's nothing new that music, sounds, colours and also visual themes can be used to "lead" the viewers'/players' emotions. Already silent film directors knew how to use color, light and the accompanying live music as an effect. Modern cinema still does the same, to an extent. It's clear that if the whole world is just a flickering, glittering and ringing mess, you'll feel like in a theme park or circus, not like an epic hero or an adventurer exploring the wilderness or forgotten ruins. So what is the direction ZOS has in mind?

It always made me feel like I was being trolled or even griefed by those kinds of effects (because the devs thought it was funny to make it a legal ability to do so), and once they found that some players would pay to be able to use them for that very purpose - it was money in the bank for them.

spartaxoxo

No

Syldras wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Fire Atronachs are pretty flashy.

If most current crown store creatures would be on a level with fire atronachs (effect- and lore-wise), I think almost no one would complain.

I personally think they are, for the most part. Like I don't see a ton of difference between the flower Khajiit and a fire Atronach.

They are both glowy all the time. The flower Khajiit, frankly, looks less fantastical than the fire atronach, to me. They both look very much like they're dealing with magic. But the Khajiit looks like they're casting magic while the Fire Atronach looks like a being made of magic. Nevertheless, there were complaints.

Syldras

Yes

spartaxoxo wrote: »

I personally think they are, for the most part. Like I don't see a ton of difference between the flower Khajiit and a fire Atronach.
They are both glowy all the time. The flower Khajiit, frankly, looks less fantastical than the fire atronach, to me. They both look very much like they're dealing with magic. But the Khajiit looks like they're casting magic while the Fire Atronach looks like a being made of magic. Nevertheless, there were complaints.

What I personally dislike about the flower Khajiit is the huge flashy explosion when it's summoned, the constant yellow light effect that surrounds it, and I also think the flowers' colours look too neon-colored, not like flowers usually look in the game (even the glowing flowers have a more "natural" feel to them). Although I could ignore the neon flowers - the thing that truly annoys me about it is the huge summoning flash and the bright yellow "fog" effect. It's more eye-straining than some fire atronach doing its silent dance somewhere in the wilderness (the only flashy thing is if it explodes after being defeated, and that I can live with - although, if that would happen in the middle of town - and all the time - it would be just as annoying, I guess).

twev

Yes

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Syldras wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

I'm an adult and I enjoy them. It's pretty. Most people use things in game that they find pretty. This includes the ones using more grounded designs. Most people do not purposefully make their characters completely ugly to them. Some do, but most don't. It's a fantasy game. Some people who play fantasy games enjoy fantastical things. It's really not that complicated. Personally, I find the argument that it's completely unfathomable another adult could like something I don't to be childish, much more than the mounts.

I personally don't understand the appeal of designs that feel gaudy and kitschy to me, yes. I also don't understand why some people enjoy eating escargot/snails with garlic butter, or why some travel to Tunisia to sit in their hotel and get drunk each and every day and never see anything of the country's culture or landscape before they fly back home. I understand that people are different, but I don't always understand what one person enjoys about one specific thing. And I don't have to either.

You don't have to understand. But, attributing negative qualities to something or someone you don't understand, instead of trying to understand, is a childish argument. If I know I don't understand something, I either try to understand or ignore it. I get wanting a way to disable other player effects. I think a performance version of the game with only basic effects could be good for a variety of reasons. But the idea that it's just kids and unfathomable adults is ridiculous.

SilverBride wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Some people who play fantasy games enjoy fantastical things.

I like fantastical things, such Khajiit and Argonians in Tamriel... and casting lightning from my staff to kill enemies... and Dragons and other fantastical beasts in the world.

I don't consider things like horses that explode in noise and light when someone mounts them, or a huge pink bubble appear when someone recalls to be fantastical. I find them cartoonish and disruptive to the feel of the world.

They are literally fantasy elements. Magic has been a staple of fantasy for ages.

Magic has a quality of appeal because it is rare, special, and wondrous.
Make it commonplace and it becomes banal, boring and cheap.
That is why common ordinary NPCs don't do it, and to players of the game - every other player isn't always supposed to be a super hero when the character we play as is supposed to be The Hero of Tamriel.

::shrugs::

spartaxoxo

No

twev wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Syldras wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

I'm an adult and I enjoy them. It's pretty. Most people use things in game that they find pretty. This includes the ones using more grounded designs. Most people do not purposefully make their characters completely ugly to them. Some do, but most don't. It's a fantasy game. Some people who play fantasy games enjoy fantastical things. It's really not that complicated. Personally, I find the argument that it's completely unfathomable another adult could like something I don't to be childish, much more than the mounts.

I personally don't understand the appeal of designs that feel gaudy and kitschy to me, yes. I also don't understand why some people enjoy eating escargot/snails with garlic butter, or why some travel to Tunisia to sit in their hotel and get drunk each and every day and never see anything of the country's culture or landscape before they fly back home. I understand that people are different, but I don't always understand what one person enjoys about one specific thing. And I don't have to either.

You don't have to understand. But, attributing negative qualities to something or someone you don't understand, instead of trying to understand, is a childish argument. If I know I don't understand something, I either try to understand or ignore it. I get wanting a way to disable other player effects. I think a performance version of the game with only basic effects could be good for a variety of reasons. But the idea that it's just kids and unfathomable adults is ridiculous.

SilverBride wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Some people who play fantasy games enjoy fantastical things.

I like fantastical things, such Khajiit and Argonians in Tamriel... and casting lightning from my staff to kill enemies... and Dragons and other fantastical beasts in the world.

I don't consider things like horses that explode in noise and light when someone mounts them, or a huge pink bubble appear when someone recalls to be fantastical. I find them cartoonish and disruptive to the feel of the world.

They are literally fantasy elements. Magic has been a staple of fantasy for ages.

Magic has a quality of appeal because it is rare, special, and wondrous.
Make it commonplace and it becomes banal, boring and cheap.
That is why common ordinary NPCs don't do it, and to players of the game - every other player isn't always supposed to be a super hero when the character we play as is supposed to be The Hero of Tamriel.

::shrugs::

Our own player character is the only vestige, but realistically, you can't expect to not see other people's version of the vestige in an MMO. Every other player is playing their own take on the hero of Tamriel, which ofc can make our own hero feel less special.

spartaxoxo

No

Syldras wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

I personally think they are, for the most part. Like I don't see a ton of difference between the flower Khajiit and a fire Atronach.
They are both glowy all the time. The flower Khajiit, frankly, looks less fantastical than the fire atronach, to me. They both look very much like they're dealing with magic. But the Khajiit looks like they're casting magic while the Fire Atronach looks like a being made of magic. Nevertheless, there were complaints.

What I personally dislike about the flower Khajiit is the huge flashy explosion when it's summoned, the constant yellow light effect that surrounds it, and I also think the flowers' colours look too neon-colored, not like flowers usually look in the game (even the glowing flowers have a more "natural" feel to them). Although I could ignore the neon flowers - the thing that truly annoys me about it is the huge summoning flash and the bright yellow "fog" effect. It's more eye-straining than some fire atronach doing its silent dance somewhere in the wilderness (the only flashy thing is if it explodes after being defeated, and that I can live with - although, if that would happen in the middle of town - and all the time - it would be just as annoying, I guess).

This is why I don't think the issue is the art style. Many would dislike fire Atronachs if they were exploding all over town. And we know that because the storm and flame atronach crate mounts also got complaints. It's the over saturation that comes from having so many players around. If it was a rare sight, I don't think people would complain as much. And it is a rare sight when other players characters are not around and it's only you.

But outside of a performance mode that turns off everyone else's cosmetics, IDK how that would work.