jbarnhill1b14_ESO wrote: »Your personal lack of faith in the playerbase is not an excuse to completely ignore what could be a feature that a lot of people want. ESO is already a complex game, there's no reason to believe a configurable challenge system couldn't exist among everything else.Most people aren't going to be able to FIND a slider. You overestimate the capacity of a lot of players.But if enough people do not enjoy the current difficulty, it is a problem for them, and it can be addressed in a way that doesn't affect your experience.SilverBride wrote: »I've supported optional debuffs and sliders as a quality of life feature for those that seek more difficulty, not because I feel that there is anything wrong with overland as it is. How much difficulty a player enjoys is a personal preference and not an indicator of a problem.
Alinhbo_Tyaka wrote: »spartaxoxo wrote: »Blackbird_V wrote: »I don't want it changed. World doesn't revolve around you, or me. If they want player retention they won't change it.
Wany a challenge, go do some vet hms.
The same dungeons and trials we've been doing for years on repeat over and over? Meh.
We're asking for optional difficulty, so it won't affect you if you don't want it to.
You won't get optional. That's the problem. It'll be all or nothing without fully instancing quest bosses.
They can use a debuff slider on the player. It will allow scaling without having to do too much to the individual mobs itself. This would mean they could play on a higher difficulty in the same zone as someone at the default. We already have this as a hidden feature but with buffs for low level characters, as stated earlier in the thread.
A lot of people don't even notice they are playing next to someone on easy mode.
Most people aren't going to be able to FIND a slider. You overestimate the capacity of a lot of players.
And with these games it's all or nothing, or they incrementally expand the "feature". Blizzard does it, Daybreak does it. Square Enix does it....
Square Enix added difficulty options to the story boss instances in newer content and have sync level for content lower than the player level. You also have the relic weapon combat areas of Eureka and Bozjan Front which are harder content that I equate to IA and Bastion Nymic. So I disagree that SE has taken an all or nothing approach as they have always tried to accommodate player requests for harder content or in the case of quest bosses easier fights.
And I suggested a number of pages back to instance quest bosses and add a difficulty popup like FFXIV has, but it was shot down.
Every single one of your points is either incorrect (bozja is easy, and Eureka is only difficult in that you're competing for kills with bots), or refers to instanced content.
Scaling content like the FATE system won't work either because there's global scaling.
One Tamriel is what ruined the difficulty of the overworld. There's very little power progression in the overworld. It's easy from day one.
And I don't care/mind at all, and honestly hope it stays this way.
spartaxoxo wrote: »Forums are generally a representative sample of player sentiment. There's a large enough amount of people who want this that the devs have addressed it on multiple occasions as well as introduced new content that is catered toward providing a better experience for those who enjoy a challenge.
spartaxoxo wrote: »Forums are generally a representative sample of player sentiment. There's a large enough amount of people who want this that the devs have addressed it on multiple occasions as well as introduced new content that is catered toward providing a better experience for those who enjoy a challenge.
There was a poll not too long ago about how many CP people have and it was quite clear that low CP players are underrepresented. I can't find it now, for some reason, but here's one from 2020 that shows the same
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/512400/how-many-champion-points-do-you-have/p1
It is my experience that forum populations represent perhaps not necessarily the most fanatic players, but certainly long term players are overrepresented.
spartaxoxo wrote: »Forums are generally a representative sample of player sentiment. There's a large enough amount of people who want this that the devs have addressed it on multiple occasions as well as introduced new content that is catered toward providing a better experience for those who enjoy a challenge.
IMHO more challenging content would have to be added as extra encounters. Encounters with enemies that spawn near the player and attack immediately and that get harder the more of them you survive. And they would be 'opt in' or quest based in their own right. They could be assassins, daedra or who knows what. Surely there must be enough evil-doers in Tamriel to want to put out a contract on the 'Saviour of Nirn'.
I think we have ignored the most important question so far... what are people willing to give up for a harder overland version?
Implementing it in whatever form requires resources, which in turn are a finite and therefore not available for other content. Though I do support an optional harder version, that support has limits. I'd be unwilling to give up a chapter, new skill line or class or a DLC story zone for it.
What I'd be willing to give up is dungeon DLC, as we have enough dungeons in game.
SilverBride wrote: »I'm curious how many that want a more difficult overland played at launch and played through the veteran levels that were Cadwell's Silver and Cadwell's Gold, then experienced Craglorn when it was introduced.
I did... once. It was a continuous struggle just questing. A player would easily and frequently die to trash mobs, and it was not unusual to be stuck for days on a quest boss. Somehow I completed all the zones then Craglorn was introduced.
Craglorn was so difficult that a player had to be in a full group just to quest. That alone was a struggle because it was next to impossible to find a group that wanted to quest and if we did they were never all on the same step of the same quest.
I had to leave the game because I literally couldn't do anything, and I wasn't alone. A lot of players left over the difficulty.
So when I hear that overland is too easy I will do my best to protect it from turning into something like that again.
Silentverge wrote: »There is an easy solution to the overland content being too easy. Make a difficulty slider that you can change at any time per player. It wont affect other players at all except you are self nerfed. Just like Skyrim has, make it something like this...
jbarnhill1b14_ESO wrote: »Silentverge wrote: »There is an easy solution to the overland content being too easy. Make a difficulty slider that you can change at any time per player. It wont affect other players at all except you are self nerfed. Just like Skyrim has, make it something like this...
I don't want to fall into the "it's easy!" trap, but I agree, it doesn't seem like a handicap system would be too hard to implement. I'm sure there's a lot to consider though, for as complex a game as ESO is, with all of its gear and build variety. Anyway, I'd be more than happy to test it.
SilverBride wrote: »Why not a slider or debuff for ALL content? Why is overland being targeted?
jbarnhill1b14_ESO wrote: »Considering the fact that I've avoided playing most of the overland story content because I don't find it entertaining or satisfying, I'd give up quite a bit. It would mean I'd finally get to do the thing I've wanted to do for years.
jbarnhill1b14_ESO wrote: »That's a cool idea, but it's yet another one of those "let's try to appease people who want overland challenge by swerving left into something they never actually asked for" non-solutions. Forgive me but it's just not what anyone here is asking for. And as for your comment about changing the scope of encounters by adding more/different monsters, that's exactly what we're all trying to avoid. I don't want to create a situation in which players need to be separated by instance because they want a challenge. The only way to make it happen is by modifying buffs and debuffs on current monster spawns and I'm fine with that.
Silentverge wrote: »i love the people on here saying "the majority doesn't want harder difficulty!" yet theyr'e posting on a thread that had to be made in one place because so many people have been asking for a harder difficulty. lmao
SilverBride wrote: »Silentverge wrote: »i love the people on here saying "the majority doesn't want harder difficulty!" yet theyr'e posting on a thread that had to be made in one place because so many people have been asking for a harder difficulty. lmao
That's not why they made this thread. The original post explains it.
SilverBride wrote: »I'm curious how many that want a more difficult overland played at launch and played through the veteran levels that were Cadwell's Silver and Cadwell's Gold, then experienced Craglorn when it was introduced.
I did... once. It was a continuous struggle just questing. A player would easily and frequently die to trash mobs, and it was not unusual to be stuck for days on a quest boss. Somehow I completed all the zones then Craglorn was introduced.
Craglorn was so difficult that a player had to be in a full group just to quest. That alone was a struggle because it was next to impossible to find a group that wanted to quest and if we did they were never all on the same step of the same quest.
I had to leave the game because I literally couldn't do anything, and I wasn't alone. A lot of players left over the difficulty.
So when I hear that overland is too easy I will do my best to protect it from turning into something like that again.
jbarnhill1b14_ESO wrote: »Considering the fact that I've avoided playing most of the overland story content because I don't find it entertaining or satisfying, I'd give up quite a bit. It would mean I'd finally get to do the thing I've wanted to do for years.
That's a pretty vague answer though.
Would you be willing to have no new chapter/content for a year? No PvP improvements (not that we had any )? No dungeon DLC? Depending on what it takes to implement a harder overland version that may very well be the price we'd all have to pay. Think about it and what it would mean for ESO as a business. It's not a decision ZOS will or should make lightly, regardless of how much a segment of the player base may want it.
And even if they'd end up doing it, there will be the question of "Will enough people use it?"...
Silentverge wrote: »SilverBride wrote: »That's not why they made this thread. The original post explains it.
OP: "Hi All. We have seen the multitude of threads related to Overland Content..."
Edit: It seems the reason for this thread is twofold.
1) Like I said, there was a "multitude" of posts regarding harder difficulty.
2) Because people were crying about it.
and secret option 3) I think the OP hinted towards making a harder difficulty in the future.
jbarnhill1b14_ESO wrote: »That's a cool idea, but it's yet another one of those "let's try to appease people who want overland challenge by swerving left into something they never actually asked for" non-solutions. Forgive me but it's just not what anyone here is asking for. And as for your comment about changing the scope of encounters by adding more/different monsters, that's exactly what we're all trying to avoid. I don't want to create a situation in which players need to be separated by instance because they want a challenge. The only way to make it happen is by modifying buffs and debuffs on current monster spawns and I'm fine with that.
I'm baffled. This is a complete misrepresentation of what I said. Did you quote the wrong post?
RaptorRodeoGod wrote: »SilverBride wrote: »Why not a slider or debuff for ALL content? Why is overland being targeted?
They could even make new achievements for using harder difficulty sliders in old content. Brand it as a new system
SilverBride wrote: »Silentverge wrote: »SilverBride wrote: »That's not why they made this thread. The original post explains it.
OP: "Hi All. We have seen the multitude of threads related to Overland Content..."
Edit: It seems the reason for this thread is twofold.
1) Like I said, there was a "multitude" of posts regarding harder difficulty.
2) Because people were crying about it.
and secret option 3) I think the OP hinted towards making a harder difficulty in the future.
There would be a thread started asking for a veteran overland.
The thread would very quickly devolve and get closed.
Within the week another would pop up, all by the same small handful of posters.
This happened so often that posters would make comments about a week having gone by already when they saw a new thread.
It was doing nothing but creating a bad experience for many posters, so this thread was created to keep the discussion in one place.
There was no crying from anyone.
SilverBride wrote: »I'm curious how many that want a more difficult overland played at launch and played through the veteran levels that were Cadwell's Silver and Cadwell's Gold, then experienced Craglorn when it was introduced.
I did... once. It was a continuous struggle just questing. A player would easily and frequently die to trash mobs, and it was not unusual to be stuck for days on a quest boss. Somehow I completed all the zones then Craglorn was introduced.
Craglorn was so difficult that a player had to be in a full group just to quest. That alone was a struggle because it was next to impossible to find a group that wanted to quest and if we did they were never all on the same step of the same quest.
I had to leave the game because I literally couldn't do anything, and I wasn't alone. A lot of players left over the difficulty.
So when I hear that overland is too easy I will do my best to protect it from turning into something like that again.
So, suppose they add a slider.
What happens when someone with it off hits your mobs? Do they suddenly get screwed by a bullet sponge? Does the challenge monger's settings take over?
I just don't see it working. At all.
And obviously some of you don't want to do the stories bad enough or you'd do them regardless of difficulty. In no mmo ever have I played overland content for a challenge.
So, suppose they add a slider.
What happens when someone with it off hits your mobs? Do they suddenly get screwed by a bullet sponge? Does the challenge monger's settings take over?
I just don't see it working. At all.
And obviously some of you don't want to do the stories bad enough or you'd do them regardless of difficulty. In no mmo ever have I played overland content for a challenge.
i don't see that working either, but i see a debuff difficulty slider working just fine.
a debuff difficulty slider would just give you debuffs like Major Maim so you take more damage.
edit: major maim reduces your damage done.
Major Vulnerability increases damage taken.