Overland Content Feedback Thread

Uvi_AUT

Is there any Update about this Topic? Does the difficulty of Overland-Content still make everything basically useless? (Since you can do it all naked)

Tariq9898

Uvi_AUT wrote: »

Is there any Update about this Topic? Does the difficulty of Overland-Content still make everything basically useless? (Since you can do it all naked)

Yes, unfortunately.

I personally think an optional difficulty slider would improve group engagement and even endgame content, bringing the community closer. Especially for an MMO. The overland content is simply too easy for teamwork or for story enjoyers like myself.

As of right now, the difference between Normal and Vet content is galactic... Not just in gameplay but also in community. With no stepping stone or preparation in between, there's a humongous chasm between casual and endgame players. Right now, overland content does not teach you any mechanics, save for world bosses. And thus, instills bad habits for new players when they want to try endgame content. Vet overland can bridge that gap between braindead easy and endgame, giving opportunities for players to learn. By giving more incentives for players to group up, communicate and complete world bosses, public dungeons, quest bosses, they can not only learn mechanics, but also gain wisdom and knowledge from others. Or if they choose, they can challenge themselves by soloing.

Having difficulty options is part of immersive storytelling that only video games can provide... Both narrative and environmental. Players like myself who enjoy the story and lore of Elder Scrolls can feel a sense of immersion by feeling the stakes more. And feeling that sense of danger lurking around every corner when venturing a delve filled with necromancers and the undead. Players who prefer to play on Normal will have that option.

Players shouldn't have to trudge through 100+ hours of easy content that is boring to them to get to the part they enjoy the most, the more difficult aspects of the game.

IMO, the lack of overland difficulty option IS what's splitting the community.

These two videos explain it well:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DXerFpiCca8&t=228s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iJPMT26raNc

terrible1fi

Tariq9898 wrote: »

Uvi_AUT wrote: »

Is there any Update about this Topic? Does the difficulty of Overland-Content still make everything basically useless? (Since you can do it all naked)

Yes, unfortunately.

I personally think an optional difficulty slider would improve group engagement and even endgame content, bringing the community closer. Especially for an MMO. The overland content is simply too easy for teamwork or for story enjoyers like myself.

As of right now, the difference between Normal and Vet content is galactic... Not just in gameplay but also in community. With no stepping stone or preparation in between, there's a humongous chasm between casual and endgame players. Right now, overland content does not teach you any mechanics, save for world bosses. And thus, instills bad habits for new players when they want to try endgame content. Vet overland can bridge that gap between braindead easy and endgame, giving opportunities for players to learn. By giving more incentives for players to group up, communicate and complete world bosses, public dungeons, quest bosses, they can not only learn mechanics, but also gain wisdom and knowledge from others. Or if they choose, they can challenge themselves by soloing.

Having difficulty options is part of immersive storytelling that only video games can provide... Both narrative and environmental. Players like myself who enjoy the story and lore of Elder Scrolls can feel a sense of immersion by feeling the stakes more. And feeling that sense of danger lurking around every corner when venturing a delve filled with necromancers and the undead. Players who prefer to play on Normal will have that option.

Players shouldn't have to trudge through 100+ hours of easy content that is boring to them to get to the part they enjoy the most, the more difficult aspects of the game.

IMO, the lack of overland difficulty option IS what's splitting the community.

These two videos explain it well:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DXerFpiCca8&t=228s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iJPMT26raNc

agreed. im almost guaranteeing that most people who try the game end up leaving because just steamrolling enemies is not fun. you can literally afk and you still won't die to most overland enemies lmao.

this is the single most critical thing about the game that is killing the game currently that needs to be fixed

SilverBride

terrible1fi wrote: »

...im almost guaranteeing that most people who try the game end up leaving because just steamrolling enemies is not fun...

This is not what is happening at all. In fact there have been a lot of complaints about how the Story Bosses, and World Bosses, and Public Dungeon group event Bosses and Incursion Bosses have gotten more difficult with long tedious immune phases, and this is not what the playerbase wants.

They even had to tweak the Silorn group event Boss to do less damage and have less defense based in part on player feedback.

Credible_Joe

SilverBride wrote: »

terrible1fi wrote: »

...im almost guaranteeing that most people who try the game end up leaving because just steamrolling enemies is not fun...

This is not what is happening at all. In fact there have been a lot of complaints about how the Story Bosses, and World Bosses, and Public Dungeon group event Bosses and Incursion Bosses have gotten more difficult with long tedious immune phases, and this is not what the playerbase wants.

They even had to tweak the Silorn group event Boss to do less damage and have less defense based in part on player feedback.

Except for the story bosses, you are describing group content. These activities can be found on the overland, but all of the content you mentioned is not what the grievances in this thread are directed towards. The criticism is targeted towards questing, solo adventuring, delves, public dungeons, and chapter storylines, all of which is too easy and does not prepare new players for most of the endgame activities.

There have been complaints about fight mechanics favoring tedious invuln phases lately, but they are in no way related to the concerns in this thread.

In fact, if there was an option and incentive to adventure at a more difficult level, there likely wouldn't be as many complaints related to difficulty about any of the activities you mentioned. All of them are solo-able with a proper build and understanding of gameplay, even if they are tedious with the invuln phases. New players have never needed either of those things by the time they're leveled enough for group content, and so they struggle with anything that isn't tuned expressly to be as easy as possible.

tl;dr: don't conflate tedious fight design with difficulty, and don't conflate group content with solo content. We want a more difficult challenge while questing and adventuring through the chapter and zone storylines. Anything else is hardly related.

SilverBride

Credible_Joe wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

terrible1fi wrote: »

...im almost guaranteeing that most people who try the game end up leaving because just steamrolling enemies is not fun...

This is not what is happening at all. In fact there have been a lot of complaints about how the Story Bosses, and World Bosses, and Public Dungeon group event Bosses and Incursion Bosses have gotten more difficult with long tedious immune phases, and this is not what the playerbase wants.

They even had to tweak the Silorn group event Boss to do less damage and have less defense based in part on player feedback.

Except for the story bosses, you are describing group content. These activities can be found on the overland, but all of the content you mentioned is not what the grievances in this thread are directed towards. The criticism is targeted towards questing, solo adventuring, delves, public dungeons, and chapter storylines, all of which is too easy and does not prepare new players for most of the endgame activities.

All of those are considered parts of Overland, and I mentioned public dungeons and chapter story bosses specifically. Some players can't even complete the zone story now because of this increase in difficulty.

Also, Overland is for the story. It is not a training ground for end game content. The only way to learn end game is to start in normal dungeons and arenas, then vet dungeons and arenas, then normal trials, then vet trials, That is how it's been in every MMO I've ever played. You learn end game by doing end game content.

spartaxoxo

I have heard near zero complaints about being unable to defeat the story bosses. It's not zero because there has been a few but almost none.

I did see complaints about Silorn but that's been nerfed since then.

Edit
I have heard plenty of complaints about invulnerable phases but the complaint there isn't about difficulty but that it's just tedious delay.

SilverBride

It is a fact that there are more than just a few players that are having trouble with the Story Bosses now, and I am not going to argue this.

spartaxoxo

SilverBride wrote: »

It is a fact that there are more than just a few players that are having trouble with the Story Bosses now, and I am not going to argue this.

I personally don't think that's a fact at all, but can't know for sure. The developers have stated they tuned things for the majority of players to find enjoyable. They also did not nerf the story bosses but did nerf Silorn. So the result of a balance pass for difficulty did not result in any changes to the story boss. I have personally seen very few complaints about story boss difficulty. Of course, all of those things are anecdotal evidence. Since we are all players, we can't know the actual fact unless the developers tell us.

But I do have evidence that I am basing my opinion on. You are of course free to believe otherwise and may have seen more complaints than I have.

SilverBride

I stand by my opinion and what I have seen evidence of and I am not going to argue the point. We need to agree to disagree and leave it at that.

TaSheen

I might be the only one who's publicly stated that I can't do the zone story bosses any more (and actually the last story boss I managed was the Ascendant Magus - after a LOT of tries, and a lot of hand and wrist pain). I know I'm a minority of one. That's okay. I still have a lot of things I can do in the game.

spartaxoxo

TaSheen wrote: »

I might be the only one who's publicly stated that I can't do the zone story bosses any more (and actually the last story boss I managed was the Ascendant Magus - after a LOT of tries, and a lot of hand and wrist pain). I know I'm a minority of one. That's okay. I still have a lot of things I can do in the game.

You are who immediately comes to mind when I think of someone who could use a slider the other way to help with the story bosses but I'm fairly sure you're not the only one.

TaSheen

spartaxoxo wrote: »

TaSheen wrote: »

I might be the only one who's publicly stated that I can't do the zone story bosses any more (and actually the last story boss I managed was the Ascendant Magus - after a LOT of tries, and a lot of hand and wrist pain). I know I'm a minority of one. That's okay. I still have a lot of things I can do in the game.

You are who immediately comes to mind when I think of someone who could use a slider the other way to help with the story bosses but I'm fairly sure you're not the only one.

Maybe. All my friends who play are "dismissive" of my issues.... along with so many people here in the forum....

spartaxoxo

TaSheen wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

TaSheen wrote: »

I might be the only one who's publicly stated that I can't do the zone story bosses any more (and actually the last story boss I managed was the Ascendant Magus - after a LOT of tries, and a lot of hand and wrist pain). I know I'm a minority of one. That's okay. I still have a lot of things I can do in the game.

You are who immediately comes to mind when I think of someone who could use a slider the other way to help with the story bosses but I'm fairly sure you're not the only one.

Maybe. All my friends who play are "dismissive" of my issues.... along with so many people here in the forum....

That sucks. Well, for whatever it's worth, I have never bought into the idea that things should only be done for those in the majority. If they do make a difficulty slider, I think allowing it to go to an easier difficulty too would be a good thing.

TaSheen

spartaxoxo wrote: »

TaSheen wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

TaSheen wrote: »

I might be the only one who's publicly stated that I can't do the zone story bosses any more (and actually the last story boss I managed was the Ascendant Magus - after a LOT of tries, and a lot of hand and wrist pain). I know I'm a minority of one. That's okay. I still have a lot of things I can do in the game.

You are who immediately comes to mind when I think of someone who could use a slider the other way to help with the story bosses but I'm fairly sure you're not the only one.

Maybe. All my friends who play are "dismissive" of my issues.... along with so many people here in the forum....

That sucks. Well, for whatever it's worth, I have never bought into the idea that things should only be done for those in the majority. If they do make a difficulty slider, I think allowing it to go to an easier difficulty too would be a good thing.

I wish....

disky

Tim Cain, the creator of Fallout and director/contributor to many other notable games, has a Youtube channel that I watch avidly because he provides what amounts to a game design consulting position for free, along with fun anecdotes and history. I love Tim, he seems like a wonderful guy.

A few days ago he did a video on enemy AI, and while most of his experience is with single-player RPGs, he did also work on Wildstar, and when I watched this video I instantly thought about this thread. Everything he discussed about what AI should be were things I felt were lacking in overland enemies in ESO. I highly recommend watching at least the first few minutes of this video because it's very relevant to this thread.

Not everything would be possible in the context of an optional setting in ESO, I understand that, but there is a lot here that is worthy of consideration. I think if ESO did even some of what he's talking about the game would be a lot more fun for a lot of people, even those who appreciate the status quo.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GELMMl4WutY

SilverBride

spartaxoxo wrote: »

TaSheen wrote: »

I might be the only one who's publicly stated that I can't do the zone story bosses any more (and actually the last story boss I managed was the Ascendant Magus - after a LOT of tries, and a lot of hand and wrist pain). I know I'm a minority of one. That's okay. I still have a lot of things I can do in the game.

You are who immediately comes to mind when I think of someone who could use a slider the other way to help with the story bosses but I'm fairly sure you're not the only one.

I agree that there are others that could also use help with the story bosses, which is what I have been saying.

spartaxoxo

SilverBride wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

TaSheen wrote: »

I might be the only one who's publicly stated that I can't do the zone story bosses any more (and actually the last story boss I managed was the Ascendant Magus - after a LOT of tries, and a lot of hand and wrist pain). I know I'm a minority of one. That's okay. I still have a lot of things I can do in the game.

You are who immediately comes to mind when I think of someone who could use a slider the other way to help with the story bosses but I'm fairly sure you're not the only one.

I agree that there are others that could also use help with the story bosses, which is what I have been saying.

I never disagreed people needed help. So, let's just agree to disagree and leave it at that.

ssewallb14_ESO

I'm just now discovering the Ornaugs like playing in the water.

Nice touch.

TaSheen

ssewallb14_ESO wrote: »

I'm just now discovering the Ornaugs like playing in the water.

Nice touch.

I love that - it's one of the most fun things ever added to this game. I can watch them for hours....

colossalvoids

SilverBride wrote: »

terrible1fi wrote: »

...im almost guaranteeing that most people who try the game end up leaving because just steamrolling enemies is not fun...

This is not what is happening at all. In fact there have been a lot of complaints about how the Story Bosses, and World Bosses, and Public Dungeon group event Bosses and Incursion Bosses have gotten more difficult with long tedious immune phases, and this is not what the playerbase wants.

They even had to tweak the Silorn group event Boss to do less damage and have less defense based in part on player feedback.

Some players having issues and immunity phase design zos pursues doesn't cancels out people who do find overland a faceroll and quit because of it. That's a pretty common story by now.

SilverBride

colossalvoids wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

terrible1fi wrote: »

...im almost guaranteeing that most people who try the game end up leaving because just steamrolling enemies is not fun...

This is not what is happening at all. In fact there have been a lot of complaints about how the Story Bosses, and World Bosses, and Public Dungeon group event Bosses and Incursion Bosses have gotten more difficult with long tedious immune phases, and this is not what the playerbase wants.

They even had to tweak the Silorn group event Boss to do less damage and have less defense based in part on player feedback.

Some players having issues and immunity phase design zos pursues doesn't cancels out people who do find overland a faceroll and quit because of it. That's a pretty common story by now.

I never said it cancelled it anything, but there are a lot of players that do not want more difficulty in overland and feel they have gone too far with these Bosses.

colossalvoids

SilverBride wrote: »

colossalvoids wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

terrible1fi wrote: »

...im almost guaranteeing that most people who try the game end up leaving because just steamrolling enemies is not fun...

This is not what is happening at all. In fact there have been a lot of complaints about how the Story Bosses, and World Bosses, and Public Dungeon group event Bosses and Incursion Bosses have gotten more difficult with long tedious immune phases, and this is not what the playerbase wants.

They even had to tweak the Silorn group event Boss to do less damage and have less defense based in part on player feedback.

Some players having issues and immunity phase design zos pursues doesn't cancels out people who do find overland a faceroll and quit because of it. That's a pretty common story by now.

I never said it cancelled it anything, but there are a lot of players that do not want more difficulty in overland and feel they have gone too far with these Bosses.

This is not what is happening at all.

Being dismissive is a better word then. Was unnecessary but a trigger for people who are genuinely concerned with an issue. It should not become a trolling festival or a competition of who's the most oppressed player out there, we all have issues, that's part of an issue in itself.

SilverBride

colossalvoids wrote: »

Being dismissive is a better word then. Was unnecessary but a trigger for people who are genuinely concerned with an issue. It should not become a trolling festival or a competition of who's the most oppressed player out there, we all have issues, that's part of an issue in itself.

I was not dismissing anyone. I was disagreeing with this particular statement: "im almost guaranteeing that most people who try the game end up leaving because just steamrolling enemies is not fun" because MOST people who try the game are NOT leaving, and of those that do there is nothing indicating that easy overland is the reason why MOST of the ones that left did.

Edited to add:
Also, it is just as triggering for us to have to listen to players, many of which don't currently play, criticize the game we love and do play and actively support by being subscribed.

colossalvoids

SilverBride wrote: »

colossalvoids wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

colossalvoids wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

terrible1fi wrote: »

...im almost guaranteeing that most people who try the game end up leaving because just steamrolling enemies is not fun...

This is not what is happening at all. In fact there have been a lot of complaints about how the Story Bosses, and World Bosses, and Public Dungeon group event Bosses and Incursion Bosses have gotten more difficult with long tedious immune phases, and this is not what the playerbase wants.

They even had to tweak the Silorn group event Boss to do less damage and have less defense based in part on player feedback.

Some players having issues and immunity phase design zos pursues doesn't cancels out people who do find overland a faceroll and quit because of it. That's a pretty common story by now.

I never said it cancelled it anything, but there are a lot of players that do not want more difficulty in overland and feel they have gone too far with these Bosses.

This is not what is happening at all.

Being dismissive is a better word then. Was unnecessary but a trigger for people who are genuinely concerned with an issue. It should not become a trolling festival or a competition of who's the most oppressed player out there, we all have issues, that's part of an issue in itself.

I was not dismissing anyone. I was disagreeing with this particular statement: "im almost guaranteeing that most people who try the game end up leaving because just steamrolling enemies is not fun" because MOST people who try the game are NOT leaving, and of those that do there is nothing indicating that easy overland is the reason why MOST of the ones that left did.

Their guess is just as viable as yours. From my personal experience and what I was reading and watching throughout the years that's the case for a lot of people, same as the opposite, as having too much of the difficulty. And most people do leave games be it an MMO or a single player game, that's the fact of any game for different reasons but luckily in this case quite a lot of people are vocal of their why's and that's among pretty common complaints if you've been curious enough to read from time to time on steam, as just one example.

SilverBride

colossalvoids wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

I was not dismissing anyone. I was disagreeing with this particular statement: "im almost guaranteeing that most people who try the game end up leaving because just steamrolling enemies is not fun" because MOST people who try the game are NOT leaving, and of those that do there is nothing indicating that easy overland is the reason why MOST of the ones that left did.

Their guess is just as viable as yours. From my personal experience and what I was reading and watching throughout the years that's the case for a lot of people, same as the opposite, as having too much of the difficulty. And most people do leave games be it an MMO or a single player game, that's the fact of any game for different reasons but luckily in this case quite a lot of people are vocal of their why's and that's among pretty common complaints if you've been curious enough to read from time to time on steam, as just one example.

That goes both ways. A player may think other players trying ESO will leave because overland is too easy, but that should be stated as an opinion, not a fact, and that is what I was disputing.

And no, I don't read the Steam forums. I have nothing to do with Steam, which is just a small percentage of PC players.

spartaxoxo

I decided to look at specifically negative reviews from new players in the last 30 days.

The reasons cited for uninstalling were

- Random bans of new accounts (I've also seen this on Reddit and they ended up restored. Idk what's going on there).
- Performance Issues
- Overly monetized (craft bag, mount training, and dlc access in particular were cited as huge issues)
- Grindy and repetitive
- Tanlorin uses they/them pronouns (1 person)
- Bow is not aim based (1 person)
- The overland was too easy

spartaxoxo

I also decided to look at the mostly positive reviews on Steam from new players in the past 30 days.

The reasons cited for recommendation were

- Appreciation of the Elder Scrolls IP
- Build crafting
- Exploration and collecting things
- Ease of getting into and great stories (comment warns that base game overland is too easy and all challenges are in group content)
- Lots of things to do

Getsugatenso

With all due respect, ESO's Overland is the easiest game I've ever played.

SilverBride

Getsugatenso wrote: »

With all due respect, ESO's Overland is the easiest game I've ever played.

WoW overland is way easier because you can out level the mobs by so much that they won't even attack the player any more.