Overland Content Feedback Thread

SilverBride · January 2

mocap wrote: »

Overland difficulty must be optional for everyone.

Who wants it easy, who wants it hard. Everybody should get theirs. I hope fans of easy overland will understand this someday, although it's unlikely.

I am a huge fan of easy overland and I don't ever want it to become more difficult.

But I DO understand that some players want more difficulty (although I will never be able to wrap my head around why) and have shown support for optional debuffs or sliders that only affect the player using them.

The only things I am against is a mandatory increase in difficulty, no matter how small, or a separate veteran overland.

Elsonso · January 2

mocap wrote: »

Overland difficulty must be optional for everyone.

Who wants it easy, who wants it hard. Everybody should get theirs. I hope fans of easy overland will understand this someday, although it's unlikely.

I think that this is easy for players to say, but ultimately, is it worth the effort to add in such an option, and then maintain and test it for the rest of the life of the game? That is a question that only the developers can answer.

AlexanderDeLarge · January 2

I've pulled a complete 180 on "harder overland should be optional". Raise it across the board for everyone because this can not be the intended experience and I'd love to see anyone from Zenimax Online justify this. Who in their right mind enjoys AFKing in front of a bear for a minute and a half, unable to die AT LEVEL THREE COMPLETELY NAKED NO STATS ALLOCATED
https://youtu.be/CLYwxXFqEZk

What a complete and utter joke.

SilverBride · January 2

AlexanderDeLarge wrote: »

I've pulled a complete 180 on "harder overland should be optional". Raise it across the board for everyone because this can not be the intended experience and I'd love to see anyone from Zenimax Online justify this. Who in their right mind enjoys AFKing in front of a bear for a minute and a half, unable to die AT LEVEL THREE COMPLETELY NAKED NO STATS ALLOCATED
https://youtu.be/CLYwxXFqEZk

What a complete and utter joke.

If there was ever an occasion where I would have to afk in front of a bear I would certainly hope that my well geared and skilled player wouldn't die while I was away.

There is a LOT of challenging content in this game. EVERYTHING but the overland story and quests in EVERY ZONE beyond the base game zones is more difficult now.

Leave something for those of us that enjoy a break from challenges and want to experience the story in peace.

Elsonso · January 2

AlexanderDeLarge wrote: »

I've pulled a complete 180 on "harder overland should be optional". Raise it across the board for everyone because this can not be the intended experience and I'd love to see anyone from Zenimax Online justify this. Who in their right mind enjoys AFKing in front of a bear for a minute and a half, unable to die AT LEVEL THREE COMPLETELY NAKED NO STATS ALLOCATED

Just keep in mind the possibility that a Level 3, no gear, nothing allocated, should not be dying to bears right away. Remember that at Level 3, they are buffed to the max just to keep them alive long enough to have a chance to kill before they get killed.

Also, keep in mind the two bears will kill in half the time.

Probably less than that, actually.

valenwood_vegan · January 2

AlexanderDeLarge wrote: »

Who in their right mind enjoys AFKing in front of a bear for a minute and a half, unable to die AT LEVEL THREE COMPLETELY NAKED NO STATS ALLOCATED

You know, I don't think implying that people who don't want a more difficult overland experience are "not in their right mind" brings much to this discussion. But also, just kill the bear? You don't have to afk in front of it for 90 seconds?

I mean, I actually really want more challenging overland content, but even then, I wouldn't want to spend lots of time in a grueling fight for my life against every bear and wolf and mudcrab. I'm not looking for a trial boss around every corner.

To me, it makes perfect sense that not every single trash enemy in every corner of the game is scaled to my desired difficulty as a highly experienced, well-geared endgamer. And I hope they never will be.

disky · January 3

SilverBride wrote: »

KapiteinBoterham wrote: »

If we all unamously ask for slightly tougher story/quest bosses we have a much higher chance of succes.

The only way to get a unanimous response is if everyone involved is in agreement. That isn't the case here as there are many that are opposed to any increase in overland difficulty.

No one has an obligation to agree to anything they don't want.

You're acting like a solution that works for everyone is impossible to achieve, when it very likely is possible. I just don't understand why someone would want to prevent a group of people from enjoying the game, if it's very likely that your own fun will be completely unaffected.

FlopsyPrince · January 3

jbarnhill1b14_ESO wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

KapiteinBoterham wrote: »

If we all unamously ask for slightly tougher story/quest bosses we have a much higher chance of succes.

The only way to get a unanimous response is if everyone involved is in agreement. That isn't the case here as there are many that are opposed to any increase in overland difficulty.

No one has an obligation to agree to anything they don't want.

You're acting like a solution that works for everyone is impossible to achieve, when it very likely is possible. I just don't understand why someone would want to prevent a group of people from enjoying the game, if it's very likely that your own fun will be completely unaffected.

Look at many/most Internet discussions. Most times someone will disagree with whatever the argument is. This is true across many different areas, not just ESO. That doesn't mean a good solution cannot be found, but that most discussions thrive on such "debate".

I am amazed that this same argument is still ongoing after I took over a year off ESO!

NOTE: I am not challenging any point here, just noting that arguments on the Internet have been around as long as it has.

SilverBride · January 3

jbarnhill1b14_ESO wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

KapiteinBoterham wrote: »

If we all unamously ask for slightly tougher story/quest bosses we have a much higher chance of succes.

The only way to get a unanimous response is if everyone involved is in agreement. That isn't the case here as there are many that are opposed to any increase in overland difficulty.

No one has an obligation to agree to anything they don't want.

You're acting like a solution that works for everyone is impossible to achieve, when it very likely is possible. I just don't understand why someone would want to prevent a group of people from enjoying the game, if it's very likely that your own fun will be completely unaffected.

This solution doesn't work for everyone. It only works for the few that want mandatory increased difficulty for everyone, regardless of how we like to play or what we enjoy.

Making a change like this would prevent the group of people that enjoy overland and the quests and story just as it is from continuing to do so.

spartaxoxo · January 3

jbarnhill1b14_ESO wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

KapiteinBoterham wrote: »

If we all unamously ask for slightly tougher story/quest bosses we have a much higher chance of succes.

The only way to get a unanimous response is if everyone involved is in agreement. That isn't the case here as there are many that are opposed to any increase in overland difficulty.

No one has an obligation to agree to anything they don't want.

You're acting like a solution that works for everyone is impossible to achieve, when it very likely is possible. I just don't understand why someone would want to prevent a group of people from enjoying the game, if it's very likely that your own fun will be completely unaffected.

No. The comment she made was in response to another user stating they wanted unanimous agreement to their particular idea (or some similar, small, middle ground change). It should also be noted the idea proposed for unanimous consent was a forced, across the board increase to boss HP.

Frankly, even if a good idea was posted that the devs ended up going with, their likely would not be unanimous consent.

disky · January 3

SilverBride wrote: »

This solution doesn't work for everyone. It only works for the few that want mandatory increased difficulty for everyone, regardless of how we like to play or what we enjoy.

Making a change like this would prevent the group of people that enjoy overland and the quests and story just as it is from continuing to do so.

Forgive me if I misread, it's some of your other statements that have spurred me to respond. Things like

SilverBride wrote: »

ESO overland is exactly what it should be.

made it seem like you're unwilling to accept an optional change that wouldn't affect anyone who didn't want to enable it, so I apologize if I missed the nuance of the conversation.

TaSheen · January 3

Many of us throughout this humongous thread have said over and over again that as long as it's optional we're fine with whatever. Most of those I include in that statement are not rigidly against "splitting the playerbase", as the player base is split all over the place anyway - the current instancing usage is set up to do just that, after all.

What I AM against is enforced across the board changes such as adding HP to story bosses (with which I struggle at their current level), or making overland "vet for everyone".

Sakiri · January 3

I don't want it changed. World doesn't revolve around you, or me. If they want player retention they won't change it.

Wany a challenge, go do some vet hms.

Blackbird_V · January 3

Sakiri wrote: »

I don't want it changed. World doesn't revolve around you, or me. If they want player retention they won't change it.

Wany a challenge, go do some vet hms.

The same dungeons and trials we've been doing for years on repeat over and over? Meh.

We're asking for optional difficulty, so it won't affect you if you don't want it to.

Elsonso · January 3

Blackbird_V wrote: »

Sakiri wrote: »

I don't want it changed. World doesn't revolve around you, or me. If they want player retention they won't change it.

Wany a challenge, go do some vet hms.

The same dungeons and trials we've been doing for years on repeat over and over? Meh.

We're asking for optional difficulty, so it won't affect you if you don't want it to.

I'd much rather they spend developer time doing Spell Crafting, or adding to Fighter/Mage/Thieves'/Assassin's guild, or a new weapon skill line.

valenwood_vegan · January 3

Blackbird_V wrote: »

We're asking for optional difficulty, so it won't affect you if you don't want it to.

I don't actually see anyone here having a problem with THIS. (I'd love it).

But I don't understand who this "we" is - there are multiple recent posts demanding a non-optional overland difficulty increase. I believe that is what some of these comments are responding to. Could be wrong though, there is so much going on in this thread at this point :P

spartaxoxo · January 3

valenwood_vegan wrote: »

Blackbird_V wrote: »

We're asking for optional difficulty, so it won't affect you if you don't want it to.

I don't actually see anyone here having a problem with THIS. (I'd love it).

But I don't understand who this "we" is - there are multiple recent posts demanding a non-optional overland difficulty increase. I believe that is what some of these comments are responding to. Could be wrong though, there is so much going on in this thread at this point :P

The person they quoted said they don't want anything changed.

valenwood_vegan · January 3

spartaxoxo wrote: »

The person they quoted said they don't want anything changed.

Ok fair, now that I read back through everything again. I just wanna make sure that those of us who essentially want or support the same thing aren't arguing against each other

SilverBride · January 3

Blackbird_V wrote: »

Sakiri wrote: »

I don't want it changed. World doesn't revolve around you, or me. If they want player retention they won't change it.

Wany a challenge, go do some vet hms.

The same dungeons and trials we've been doing for years on repeat over and over? Meh.

It's the same overland quests we've been doing for years too. Making them more difficult won't change that. Plus there is the fact that they can only be done once per character. Does that really justify changing 10 years of content for something done once per character?

And there have been new dungeons, Bastion Nymics, the Infinite Archive added, all challenging content. Virtually every single combat related thing in this game, with the exception of the overland story and quests, is challenging content.

Sakiri · January 3

Blackbird_V wrote: »

Sakiri wrote: »

I don't want it changed. World doesn't revolve around you, or me. If they want player retention they won't change it.

Wany a challenge, go do some vet hms.

The same dungeons and trials we've been doing for years on repeat over and over? Meh.

We're asking for optional difficulty, so it won't affect you if you don't want it to.

You won't get optional. That's the problem. It'll be all or nothing without fully instancing quest bosses.

Deserrick · January 3

Sakiri wrote: »

You won't get optional. That's the problem. It'll be all or nothing without fully instancing quest bosses.

Even without fully instancing quest bosses, it doesn't have to be all or nothing if the changes are applied to the player instead of enemies (like how the scaling that is applied so a level 3 player can engage with the same content a LV50CP160 player can is done by affecting the player instead of changing an enemy's stats based on the level of the player engaging with it). One way is to have difficulty sliders that apply a multiplier to outgoing and incoming damage.

spartaxoxo · January 4

Sakiri wrote: »

Blackbird_V wrote: »

Sakiri wrote: »

I don't want it changed. World doesn't revolve around you, or me. If they want player retention they won't change it.

Wany a challenge, go do some vet hms.

The same dungeons and trials we've been doing for years on repeat over and over? Meh.

We're asking for optional difficulty, so it won't affect you if you don't want it to.

You won't get optional. That's the problem. It'll be all or nothing without fully instancing quest bosses.

They can use a debuff slider on the player. It will allow scaling without having to do too much to the individual mobs itself. This would mean they could play on a higher difficulty in the same zone as someone at the default. We already have this as a hidden feature but with buffs for low level characters, as stated earlier in the thread.

A lot of people don't even notice they are playing next to someone on easy mode.

disky · January 4

So I think that with the exception of a minority we can agree that as long as there is no impact to current gameplay for those who want it to remain as-is, a toggleable increase in challenge is fine. That being the case, what do the people who want the toggle actually want to change? If ZOS wants to avoid creating different instances for players that enable it, they can:

- increase overland enemy damage to players
- decrease player damage to overland enemies
- add debuffs like the ones used in PvP
- decrease loot and other rewards
- lower food/drink/potion buff times and/or effectiveness

Does anything else come to mind? What do people who want this, actually want? Personally, I'm fine with any or all of those, and if it's configurable, even better, but I wouldn't ever expect anything that complex.

Braffin · January 4

jbarnhill1b14_ESO wrote: »

So I think that with the exception of a minority we can agree that as long as there is no impact to current gameplay for those who want it to remain as-is, a toggleable increase in challenge is fine. That being the case, what do the people who want the toggle actually want to change? If ZOS wants to avoid creating different instances for players with it enabled, they can:

- increase overland enemy damage to players
- decrease player damage to overland enemies
- add debuffs like the ones used in PvP
- decrease loot and other rewards
- lower food/drink/potion buff times and/or effectiveness

Does anything else come to mind? What do people who want this, actually want? Personally, I'm fine with any or all of those, and if it's configurable, even better, but I wouldn't ever expect anything that complex.

I for myself would be pleased with adding more HP and dmg to enemies, just enough to get some immersion out of questing (so no dark souls difficulty for me in overland, but something like original craglorn for example - without the forced and instanced grouping).

I don't ask for one-shot mechanics for overland, but consistently ignoring them should at least somewhat hurt.

Rewards could be the same or slightly better (blue/purple drops instead of green), but doesn't really matter for me personally.

Iron_Warrior · January 4

Haven't been playing eso for over a year but Just came back to these forums to say happy new year to all the chads that are still fighting for the vet overland. Keep fighting the good fight, 2024 will be our year!

RaptorRodeoGod · January 5

KapiteinBoterham wrote: »

This thread is so depressing its just a black hole for all the complaints about overland that will never ever get adressed (grim focus permaglow flashbacks).

Creating a toggle would take the devs extra time and resources, not something they are keen to do.

Just a little exta HP won't hurt; You would spend 5-10 seconds extra at a story/quest boss. But in exchange you get so much back:

I agree on point one lol.

But I'd think making a stand alone slider you could slap on player characters would be a more "play how you want" solution than bumping health by 10% or something like that. And if they'd want to tailor each bosses health by a unique amount, it's almost definitely more worthwhile to make a slider for efficiency's sake.

RaptorRodeoGod · January 5

Warhawke_80 wrote: »

...what will work for ESO and is a happy compromise is Heroic areas which I am all for...craglorn should have stayed as is more areas like that should have been added while leaving the current world as is

Uhh, thats basically saying bastion nymics addresss the harder overland content request, which doesn't really seem to have worked. Some players want their quests to feel impactful, not a snore fest.

The harder overland request will refuse to die if the devs refuse to make old questing content engaging for players that deal far more damage than the quests are designed for.

RaptorRodeoGod · January 5

SilverBride wrote: »

Drammanoth wrote: »

Considering your posts @Warhawke_80 and @SilverBride , what would you say for localised challenges in Overland?

Again, it would not affect the whole area, just AN area where a miniboss appears. Or, an Oblivion portal to some Delve-size map with a semi-Raid-level boss...

They already added Wandering World Bosses and the Herald Seekers and Bastion Nymics and Oblivion Portals and replaced Dolmens with Harrowstorms and Geysers and Vents and increased the difficulty of World Bosses. That is more than enough in my opinion.

Some people wanna have a more fun/difficult story, these have not addressed that issue.

RaptorRodeoGod · January 5

SilverBride wrote: »

KapiteinBoterham wrote: »

...So if we all unanimously ask for a simpler solution (again: a little extra HP for story/quest bosses) there is a much bigger chance of something actually being done!...

That is only a solution for the players that want more difficulty. Many of us do not.

KapiteinBoterham wrote: »

I cannot wrap my head around the fact that this very minor increase would cause a problem for anyone (how casual they might be) and i still haven't seen any solid arguments supporting this.

The problem is that many of us do not want any difficulty in the story, and that is reason enough to oppose it.

Also, no one asking for increased difficulty is going to be happy with a very minor increase.

You're spot on. It makes it harder for people that don't want it to be harder, and and doesn't do enough for people that do want it to be harder.

They're opposed to making overland harder for everybody, and they're opposed to making overland zones instanced.

I also haven't heard whether they think bastion nymics were successful for their intended goal with them, but I might have missed it.

They also REFUSE to comment on why a slider wouldn't work.

disky · January 5

RaptorRodeoGod wrote: »

Uhh, thats basically saying bastion nymics addresss the harder overland content request, which doesn't really seem to have worked. Some players want their quests to feel impactful, not a snore fest.

The harder overland request will refuse to die if the devs refuse to make old questing content engaging for players that deal far more damage than the quests are designed for.

RaptorRodeoGod wrote: »

Some people wanna have a more fun/difficult story, these have not addressed that issue.

Yeah, this. I don't understand why people don't see that the those of us asking for harder overland aren't asking for different content. We want harder overland.