Overland Content Feedback Thread

SilverBride

Why not a slider or debuff for ALL content? Why is overland being targeted?

spartaxoxo

SilverBride wrote: »

Why not a slider or debuff for ALL content? Why is overland being targeted?

Because the other content already lets me adjust the difficulty. If I want to do Vateshran Hallows just for the endeavor, I can run it real quick on normal. If I want a challenge, I can run it on vet. And if I want to push myself even harder than that, I can try to trifecta it just for the fun of it. That's three layers of difficulty to suit different moods.

SilverBride

That is instanced content meant to be a challenge. Overland is the ONLY content in the game that is NOT challenging content. Something should be left for those of us that enjoy the relaxing story.

Sakiri

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Sakiri wrote: »

Blackbird_V wrote: »

Sakiri wrote: »

I don't want it changed. World doesn't revolve around you, or me. If they want player retention they won't change it.


Wany a challenge, go do some vet hms.

The same dungeons and trials we've been doing for years on repeat over and over? Meh.

We're asking for optional difficulty, so it won't affect you if you don't want it to.

You won't get optional. That's the problem. It'll be all or nothing without fully instancing quest bosses.

They can use a debuff slider on the player. It will allow scaling without having to do too much to the individual mobs itself. This would mean they could play on a higher difficulty in the same zone as someone at the default. We already have this as a hidden feature but with buffs for low level characters, as stated earlier in the thread.

A lot of people don't even notice they are playing next to someone on easy mode.

Most people aren't going to be able to FIND a slider. You overestimate the capacity of a lot of players.

And with these games it's all or nothing, or they incrementally expand the "feature". Blizzard does it, Daybreak does it. Square Enix does it....

Sakiri

Hanoan wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

What do players plan to do if they do increase the difficulty of overland quests and mobs? These quests can only be played through once per character.

In my case I will buy all DLC's and enjoy challenging questing, PvP, dungeons and other stuff, missing nothing.
After playing LOTRO for about a year (with few months break) on preferred difficulty I got to level 60 out of 160, so still have a couple of years to enjoy the game.
If ESO adds similar optional difficulty "slider" as LOTRO did, It will takes years to "finish" the game this way.

LOTRO isn't exactly a popular game though.

Braffin

SilverBride wrote: »

Why not a slider or debuff for ALL content? Why is overland being targeted?

Many of us also support the implementation of story mode dungeons (with removed group-related rewards of course) for strict solo questers. That's specifically a suggestion for lower-skilled solo players, as most others simply use normal mode for that already. So, overland isn't the only content targeted.

I don't see that working for trials tho, without completely reworking them (which would exceed the work of adding difficulty scaling like in IA to overland by far).

SilverBride wrote: »

That is instanced content meant to be a challenge. Overland is the ONLY content in the game that is NOT challenging content. Something should be left for those of us that enjoy the relaxing story.

That wouldn't be changed by adding options.

Hanoan

Sakiri wrote: »

LOTRO isn't exactly a popular game though.

One extra good feature will not make 20 years old game with outdated graphics appealing to a large public. And that was not the point.

Alinhbo_Tyaka

Sakiri wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Sakiri wrote: »

Blackbird_V wrote: »

Sakiri wrote: »

I don't want it changed. World doesn't revolve around you, or me. If they want player retention they won't change it.


Wany a challenge, go do some vet hms.

The same dungeons and trials we've been doing for years on repeat over and over? Meh.

We're asking for optional difficulty, so it won't affect you if you don't want it to.

You won't get optional. That's the problem. It'll be all or nothing without fully instancing quest bosses.

They can use a debuff slider on the player. It will allow scaling without having to do too much to the individual mobs itself. This would mean they could play on a higher difficulty in the same zone as someone at the default. We already have this as a hidden feature but with buffs for low level characters, as stated earlier in the thread.

A lot of people don't even notice they are playing next to someone on easy mode.

Most people aren't going to be able to FIND a slider. You overestimate the capacity of a lot of players.

And with these games it's all or nothing, or they incrementally expand the "feature". Blizzard does it, Daybreak does it. Square Enix does it....

Square Enix added difficulty options to the story boss instances in newer content and have sync level for content lower than the player level. You also have the relic weapon combat areas of Eureka and Bozjan Front which are harder content that I equate to IA and Bastion Nymic. So I disagree that SE has taken an all or nothing approach as they have always tried to accommodate player requests for harder content or in the case of quest bosses easier fights.

SilverBride

I've supported optional debuffs and sliders as a quality of life feature for those that seek more difficulty, not because I feel that there is anything wrong with overland as it is. How much difficulty a player enjoys is a personal preference and not an indicator of a problem.

spartaxoxo

SilverBride wrote: »

That is instanced content meant to be a challenge. Overland is the ONLY content in the game that is NOT challenging content. Something should be left for those of us that enjoy the relaxing story.

You asked about why not a slider or debuff for other content. I was trying to answer. Overland is the only content that needs it. A slider or debuff would not change the overland content for those who enjoy the relaxing story.

FlopsyPrince

Braffin wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

What do players plan to do if they do increase the difficulty of overland quests and mobs? These quests can only be played through once per character.

Do players plan to keep making alts to play though the story over and over? And when their character slots are full do they plan to purchase more so they can keep playing through the story? And when they have maxed their slots do they plan to buy another account so they can continue to make alts and keep going?

If not then what is the reason for making a controversial change that goes against their successful business model for something that will have very limited uses?

I can only speak for myself of course. I would simply do all the things I currently do in overland with increased difficulty (the respective dailies for example). I'd also play through the whole game once again with one of my alts. I didn't quest with any of them due to current difficulty.

Btw, didn't you say, that you were fine with difficulty options? Sounds otherwise tbh.

I would rather see the effort put toward tuning this put into many other areas of the game, including quality of life ones.

spartaxoxo

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

Braffin wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

What do players plan to do if they do increase the difficulty of overland quests and mobs? These quests can only be played through once per character.

Do players plan to keep making alts to play though the story over and over? And when their character slots are full do they plan to purchase more so they can keep playing through the story? And when they have maxed their slots do they plan to buy another account so they can continue to make alts and keep going?

If not then what is the reason for making a controversial change that goes against their successful business model for something that will have very limited uses?

I can only speak for myself of course. I would simply do all the things I currently do in overland with increased difficulty (the respective dailies for example). I'd also play through the whole game once again with one of my alts. I didn't quest with any of them due to current difficulty.

Btw, didn't you say, that you were fine with difficulty options? Sounds otherwise tbh.

I would rather see the effort put toward tuning this put into many other areas of the game, including quality of life ones.

It is a quality of life change for many people.

SilverBride

spartaxoxo wrote: »

It is a quality of life change for many people.

Thank you. I was just making a post to make that distinction and am glad we both see it as such.

These suggestions are for quality of life, which I am very much a proponent of. It is perfectly acceptable to request things that will make our game time more enjoyable, but it gets frustrating when suggestions are presented as solutions to problems that many of us do not see as such.

BenTSG

I'm going to add my +1 to finding Overland boring, if for nothing else then statistics (although I am doubtful of any changes anyways.) I have yet to still complete Necrom, and I just haven't because questing has just become so boring and 'Brain Off' easy that I simply just can't find the effort to slog through it. I want to play through it, but I just can't be bothered. The story loses it's fun when I can blast through it with completely zero risk to me at all, and that I can kill things faster then they can finish what they're saying.

Sure, you can say "You have harder content to do, go there", which isn't right at all because sure, dungeons, trials, IA, whatever else *is* harder, but two require a group (or one, depending), and the others are senseless 'Kill the thing and get to the end'. That's hardly fun past the few achievements and re-runs of the content, and if I solo a dungeon, I can only do the story once, and what if I can only solo base game dungeons? Then I need a group for anything else, which means putting time aside to find people to do a challenging run, while also letting me listen to the story, *once*. And what if you don't like grouping? Well guess you're only doing the same 10 dungeons, rerolling to redo the same stories over and over again because it's not just senseless killing. I don't want just another 'Kill this thing, Kill this Bigger thing!', I want a story to go with it. Otherwise I'd just go play Risk of Rain or BPM.

I'm NOT looking for a permanent increase, 'cos I know people like it as is, but something optional, anything. A slider, a debug, more risks such as broken gear actually meaning something like removing it's buffs and gear set stage until fixed. As it stands, I only log on for the better part of 5 minutes now, long enough for the log in reward, and the endeavours, and I am saving myself loads of money too, both from ESO+, and most likely skipping this next chapter altogether.

spartaxoxo

SilverBride wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

It is a quality of life change for many people.

Thank you. I was just making a post to make that distinction and am glad we both see it as such.

These suggestions are for quality of life, which I am very much a proponent of. It is perfectly acceptable to request things that will make our game time more enjoyable, but it gets frustrating when suggestions are presented as solutions to problems that many of us do not see as such.

Some thing that is a problem for me, may not be a problem for others. And something that is a problem for others, may be a non-existent issue for me. So, it doesn't bother me if others don't see a problem with overland. I do sometimes feel a little bit of frustration for when someone can't see that overland does have a problem for me though.

I don't mind they disagree (everyone is entitled to their opinion and I wouldn't want someone else to stop enjoying something they really like on my behalf) but I do wish they'd at least attempt to understand where I am coming from.

For me, overland does have a problem. And that problem is that it essentially becomes a different genre of game (walking sim vs action RPG) if you hit a certain level of power. If it's still enjoyable to someone at that power level anyway. That's great! I'm happy! I enjoy walking sims sometimes (I even liked the old TellTale games. Wolf Among Us and Tales from the Borderland remain some of my favorite gaming experiences). But, also I do play ESO for it's action RPG content too and I wish I could still experience that from overland.

I understand other people don't feel the same way. And that's fine. But I describe it the way I do because for me there is an issue.

SilverBride

I do understand which is why I advocate for a quality of life change for others. I just don't agree with everything being presented.

spartaxoxo

Sakiri wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Sakiri wrote: »

Blackbird_V wrote: »

Sakiri wrote: »

I don't want it changed. World doesn't revolve around you, or me. If they want player retention they won't change it.


Wany a challenge, go do some vet hms.

The same dungeons and trials we've been doing for years on repeat over and over? Meh.

We're asking for optional difficulty, so it won't affect you if you don't want it to.

You won't get optional. That's the problem. It'll be all or nothing without fully instancing quest bosses.

They can use a debuff slider on the player. It will allow scaling without having to do too much to the individual mobs itself. This would mean they could play on a higher difficulty in the same zone as someone at the default. We already have this as a hidden feature but with buffs for low level characters, as stated earlier in the thread.

A lot of people don't even notice they are playing next to someone on easy mode.

Most people aren't going to be able to FIND a slider. You overestimate the capacity of a lot of players.

And with these games it's all or nothing, or they incrementally expand the "feature". Blizzard does it, Daybreak does it. Square Enix does it....

I think the type of player that would enjoy a slider is, generally speaking, also the type of player that would do things like pay attention to the patch notes or tweak their settings. So, they'd find the slider.

spartaxoxo

SilverBride wrote: »

I do understand which is why I advocate for a quality of life change for others. I just don't agree with everything being presented.

And I do appreciate that even though you personally don't see the need for them and don't even necessarily like the way everything is presented, you still advocate for the options that don't hurt your gameplay experiences just because it would clearly make things more enjoyable for others.

disky

SilverBride wrote: »

What do players plan to do if they do increase the difficulty of overland quests and mobs? These quests can only be played through once per character.

Do players plan to keep making alts to play though the story over and over? And when their character slots are full do they plan to purchase more so they can keep playing through the story? And when they have maxed their slots do they plan to buy another account so they can continue to make alts and keep going?

If not then what is the reason for making a controversial change that goes against their successful business model for something that will have very limited uses?

What do I plan to do? For a lot of overland, I'd be playing it for the first time. I have avoided most overland precisely because right now it's incredibly unsatisfying and when I play it, I want to feel like I've accomplished something. I'd rather not spoil it until I feel like it's ready. I don't get to play this part of the game because I can't enjoy it yet.

To your point, I actually do think an additional challenge mode, especially a configurable one, would add so much to the game in terms of replayability. If overland suddenly became much more difficult, it would spark a desire for challenge-focused players to give it another try, and yes, to try it with new and different alts/builds. This is the way a lot of ARPGs tend to draw people in. ESO does actually have a lot of breadth when it comes to build variety and that could be a thriving part of overland if it became challenging for those types of players.

Finally, you keep going back to "controversial", but I'd prefer it if you experienced no change at all to the game you currently enjoy. I've said it more than once, and even those who want something different would go along with a change that doesn't affect you if it means they get to experience challenge in overland, I have no doubt.

disky

Sakiri wrote: »

Most people aren't going to be able to FIND a slider. You overestimate the capacity of a lot of players.

Your personal lack of faith in the playerbase is not an excuse to completely ignore what could be a feature that a lot of people want. ESO is already a complex game, there's no reason to believe a configurable challenge system couldn't exist among everything else.

SilverBride wrote: »

I've supported optional debuffs and sliders as a quality of life feature for those that seek more difficulty, not because I feel that there is anything wrong with overland as it is. How much difficulty a player enjoys is a personal preference and not an indicator of a problem.

But if enough people do not enjoy the current difficulty, it is a problem for them, and it can be addressed in a way that doesn't affect your experience.

Muizer

I think the focus on 'sliders' is problematic though. It sounds like a 'magic wand' solution. What I mean is that the reality of it, if it should get implemented, would almost certainly disappoint.

ESO relies on mechanics for hard PVE content. In ESO, hard PVE content is content you need to rehearse before you can pass / get good at it. In instanced content, mobs are no more than intermezzo's between boss fights.

In other words, it is very likely that harder mob fights will soon bore people used to 'hard content' and in fact make them want to revert to easy mode just to get it over with quickly.

It would be interesting to get the Dev's perspective on it. I just have an inkling that this whole slider solution isn't a solution at all. It will just result in players coming back saying 'nice try, but it still doesn't give me what I'm looking for'. I think the Devs know this, and probably aren't even considering it because of that, which makes the whole discussion about it here futile.

disky

Muizer wrote: »

I think the focus on 'sliders' is problematic though. It sounds like a 'magic wand' solution. What I mean is that the reality of it, if it should get implemented, would almost certainly disappoint.

ESO relies on mechanics for hard PVE content. In ESO, hard PVE content is content you need to rehearse before you can pass / get good at it. In instanced content, mobs are no more than intermezzo's between boss fights.

In other words, it is very likely that harder mob fights will soon bore people used to 'hard content' and in fact make them want to revert to easy mode just to get it over with quickly.

It would be interesting to get the Dev's perspective on it. I just have an inkling that this whole slider solution isn't a solution at all. It will just result in players coming back saying 'nice try, but it still doesn't give me what I'm looking for'. I think the Devs know this, and probably aren't even considering it because of that, which makes the whole discussion about it here futile.

Let me be clear in saying that I have no real requirements for the hypothetical solution. I'm not making any demands regarding the specifics of how a change is implemented. I just want to have an option to increase challenge for all of overland, in whatever form that may take. A configurable challenge, while it would be nice to have, isn't necessary if there's something else that can work for everyone, and I'm more than amenable to anything that increases the stakes for overland at this point. Because currently, there are none.

I have to wonder if you feel the way you feel about non-boss monsters because we've all come to see those fights as something to be ignored or defeated in moments, precisely because of the fact that they've been rendered totally useless against even a brand-new player. If regular monsters are a challenge I enjoy fighting them in any game. You can say people will get bored, or won't use the feature, and that's fine, it's not for them. It IS for me, and that's why I'm here asking for it. I know it's something I would use because when I play games and I have the option to make them harder, I do. When I have the option to mod a game to make AI tougher and more interesting to fight, I do. I am the person this thread is for, and there are absolutely others like me, or the thread would never have been created in the first place.

I just want to feel like what I'm doing is an actual achievement.

Elsonso

SilverBride wrote: »

That is instanced content meant to be a challenge. Overland is the ONLY content in the game that is NOT challenging content. Something should be left for those of us that enjoy the relaxing story.

Just wanted to point out that there are still people popping up every so often that ask for "story mode" in dungeons because they want to do the story in the harder content but don't want the harder content.

LunaFlora

Elsonso wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

That is instanced content meant to be a challenge. Overland is the ONLY content in the game that is NOT challenging content. Something should be left for those of us that enjoy the relaxing story.

Just wanted to point out that there are still people popping up every so often that ask for "story mode" in dungeons because they want to do the story in the harder content but don't want the harder content.

and i hope we get that

disky

Elsonso wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

That is instanced content meant to be a challenge. Overland is the ONLY content in the game that is NOT challenging content. Something should be left for those of us that enjoy the relaxing story.

Just wanted to point out that there are still people popping up every so often that ask for "story mode" in dungeons because they want to do the story in the harder content but don't want the harder content.

Despite railing for challenge in overland, I actually want this too. There are non-soloable dungeons that I'd like to be able to do solo, so I can experience the story at my own pace. The problem with groups is that everyone tries to rush through the content as fast as possible with no regard for the story, and it's completely understandable if they've already done it, but I don't want to have to watch a YT video just so I can comprehend the content I just ripped through.

Four_Fingers

Wait if it is fair to add a slider to make overland harder, would it not be equally fair that the slider also makes harder content easier?
Slippery slope...

Muizer

jbarnhill1b14_ESO wrote: »

Let me be clear in saying that I have no real requirements for the hypothetical solution. I'm not making any demands regarding the specifics of how a change is implemented. I just want to have an option to increase challenge for all of overland, in whatever form that may take. A configurable challenge, while it would be nice to have, isn't necessary if there's something else that can work for everyone, and I'm more than amenable to anything that increases the stakes for overland at this point. Because currently, there are none.

I also feel there should be more to overland. I just don't think a slider is the way to go.

jbarnhill1b14_ESO wrote: »

I have to wonder if you feel the way you feel about non-boss monsters because we've all come to see those fights as something to be ignored or defeated in moments, precisely because of the fact that they've been rendered totally useless against even a brand-new player. If regular monsters are a challenge I enjoy fighting them in any game. You can say people will get bored, or won't use the feature, and that's fine, it's not for them. It IS for me, and that's why I'm here asking for it. I know it's something I would use because when I play games and I have the option to make them harder, I do. When I have the option to mod a game to make AI tougher and more interesting to fight, I do. I am the person this thread is for, and there are absolutely others like me, or the thread would never have been created in the first place.
I just want to feel like what I'm doing is an actual achievement.

It's important to face up to what a slider cannot give us too: A change to the way an encounter is set up: How many mobs will attack you, what their abilities are and how they behave. A slider that simply ups enemy damage and health (or debuffs the player) may make fights last a little longer but won't make them more interesting.

IMHO more challenging content would have to be added as extra encounters. Encounters with enemies that spawn near the player and attack immediately and that get harder the more of them you survive. And they would be 'opt in' or quest based in their own right. They could be assassins, daedra or who knows what. Surely there must be enough evil-doers in Tamriel to want to put out a contract on the 'Saviour of Nirn'.

Kendaric

I think we have ignored the most important question so far... what are people willing to give up for a harder overland version?

Implementing it in whatever form requires resources, which in turn are a finite and therefore not available for other content. Though I do support an optional harder version, that support has limits. I'd be unwilling to give up a chapter, new skill line or class or a DLC story zone for it.
What I'd be willing to give up is dungeon DLC, as we have enough dungeons in game.

Elsonso

Muizer wrote: »

It's important to face up to what a slider cannot give us too: A change to the way an encounter is set up: How many mobs will attack you, what their abilities are and how they behave. A slider that simply ups enemy damage and health (or debuffs the player) may make fights last a little longer but won't make them more interesting.

IMHO more challenging content would have to be added as extra encounters. Encounters with enemies that spawn near the player and attack immediately and that get harder the more of them you survive. And they would be 'opt in' or quest based in their own right. They could be assassins, daedra or who knows what. Surely there must be enough evil-doers in Tamriel to want to put out a contract on the 'Saviour of Nirn'.

Hmmm. When I think of harder content, I do not think of improved bullet sponges like I see in other games. To me the wrong approach to "harder" is not bigger damage and bigger health on the mobs. It also does not mean nerfing the player until the next breeze that comes along sends them to a healer. I am also not looking for more encounters, as that is tiring, not challenging. What I find more challenging is more mobs per encounter, especially if they don't all stand in my AoE.

Sakiri

Alinhbo_Tyaka wrote: »

Sakiri wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Sakiri wrote: »

Blackbird_V wrote: »

Sakiri wrote: »

I don't want it changed. World doesn't revolve around you, or me. If they want player retention they won't change it.


Wany a challenge, go do some vet hms.

The same dungeons and trials we've been doing for years on repeat over and over? Meh.

We're asking for optional difficulty, so it won't affect you if you don't want it to.

You won't get optional. That's the problem. It'll be all or nothing without fully instancing quest bosses.

They can use a debuff slider on the player. It will allow scaling without having to do too much to the individual mobs itself. This would mean they could play on a higher difficulty in the same zone as someone at the default. We already have this as a hidden feature but with buffs for low level characters, as stated earlier in the thread.

A lot of people don't even notice they are playing next to someone on easy mode.

Most people aren't going to be able to FIND a slider. You overestimate the capacity of a lot of players.

And with these games it's all or nothing, or they incrementally expand the "feature". Blizzard does it, Daybreak does it. Square Enix does it....

Square Enix added difficulty options to the story boss instances in newer content and have sync level for content lower than the player level. You also have the relic weapon combat areas of Eureka and Bozjan Front which are harder content that I equate to IA and Bastion Nymic. So I disagree that SE has taken an all or nothing approach as they have always tried to accommodate player requests for harder content or in the case of quest bosses easier fights.

And I suggested a number of pages back to instance quest bosses and add a difficulty popup like FFXIV has, but it was shot down.

Every single one of your points is either incorrect (bozja is easy, and Eureka is only difficult in that you're competing for kills with bots), or refers to instanced content.

Scaling content like the FATE system won't work either because there's global scaling.

One Tamriel is what ruined the difficulty of the overworld. There's very little power progression in the overworld. It's easy from day one.

And I don't care/mind at all, and honestly hope it stays this way.