Server Talking Add-ons

Adamus

Our group tests took place during the existing tests in Cyrodiil PC NA CP Faction Lock with Add-On ON Feb. 24th-28th and Add-Ons OFF Tests Mar. 1st+ between 9-12PM EST. with additional Pre-Raids.

While removing Add-Ons for a test won't remove all lag experienced, it could help reveal exactly how much traffic to the server is coming from Add-Ons and if that impacts player experience in any measurable way. Take what is learned and decide if PvP arenas require adjustments in regulations &/or additional Tools for Add-On Developers.

Bald_templar

Adamus wrote: »

Our group tests took place during the existing tests in Cyrodiil PC NA CP Faction Lock with Add-On ON Feb. 24th-28th and Add-Ons OFF Tests Mar. 1st+ between 9-12PM EST. with additional Pre-Raids.

While removing Add-Ons for a test won't remove all lag experienced, it could help reveal exactly how much traffic to the server is coming from Add-Ons and if that impacts player experience in any measurable way. Take what is learned and decide if PvP arenas require adjustments in regulations &/or additional Tools for Add-On Developers.

How exactly are you gonna measure the "lag"? Based on your experience? Your groups experience? Do you even have any idea what is a testing? How many variables are you considering?

Sanct16

Confirmation Bias.
Placebo.

ks888

@Adamus Literally all RDK does and was designed to do is combine several Add Ons everyone was already using into one Add On. Before, people had multiple Add Ons running like UI, CyrHud, Miats, Provision Team Formation, Lights of Meridia, etc.

RDK is one add-on with the capabilities of all the individual Add ons people commonly use in Cyro. It's that simple.

Lag and performance issues that can cause an inability to see enemy effects are the issue, not the Add On. Even with no add ons turned on and native ESO features like being able to highlight enemy and friendly effects - the lag is the same. It's not the players or Add Ons, it's ZOS.

neferpitou73

Adamus wrote: »

Painful as it will be to run with no add-ons in Cyrodiil, I would humbly request Tests for No-Add-Ons & Client Side Only Add-Ons Campaigns, if that is indeed possible. It isn't about any particular Add-On, it's about testing an environment in which any number of Listed & Unlisted Add-Ons can be taken out of the equation. In short, be it RDK or my beloved mini map, please allow us to test environments where Add-Ons are not part of the equation.

With all due respect, please no. I don't want ZOS running any more tests in Cyrodiil. Just let me play the game I paid for in peace the way I've been playing it for the last 2 years.

I've been sympathetic to the requests to find the source of the lag. But the last few months the following pattern has kept occurring that has made Cyrodiil a bit of a nightmare to deal with:

forums "[insert random thing here] is causing the lag!"
ZOS: *does test showing it has no effect*
forums "[Insert new random thing here] is causing the lag!"
ZOS: *does test showing it has no effect*

and on and on

First it was AOE skills and ball groups, then it was proc sets, and now it's back to ball groups and AOE heals. Simple pattern recognition has me reluctant to try any more of these changes. It seems to be more of a ZOS issue than a player issue.

blktauna

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »

You aren't alone in that thought but unfortunately many players are now conditioned to blame something other than themselves for their deaths in PvP and add-ons are the latest in the line of excuses regardless of veracity.

No one is complaining about death here. We are complaining about the consistent observation that in the presence of certain individuals, certain large groups or certain ball groups, all your skills go grey, you suddenly become unable to hit the opponent while literally standing next to them (please do not with the git gud crap), your ping spike to wild levels, bar swapping will not happen, ultimates don't go off, and pots fail to take. Lag isn't that selective. Now I'm not saying it is this addon, but there is def some common thread here that needs to be addressed.

Futard

blktauna wrote: »

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »

You aren't alone in that thought but unfortunately many players are now conditioned to blame something other than themselves for their deaths in PvP and add-ons are the latest in the line of excuses regardless of veracity.

No one is complaining about death here. We are complaining about the consistent observation that in the presence of certain individuals, certain large groups or certain ball groups, all your skills go grey, you suddenly become unable to hit the opponent while literally standing next to them (please do not with the git gud crap), your ping spike to wild levels, bar swapping will not happen, ultimates don't go off, and pots fail to take. Lag isn't that selective. Now I'm not saying it is this addon, but there is def some common thread here that needs to be addressed.

Git gud.

That's what it basically is in your case. You have lag on all platforms.
You have desyncs on all platform.
Ping will go up when huge battles are happening on the map (somewhere, you don't have to be there or see it directly).
You blame an addon and / or play style while not realizing that everyone is suffering from the same regardless of their play style or addons they use.
Blame ZOS as it is mainly their mess and don't make others responsible for the mess cyrodiil is.

Akinos

blktauna wrote: »

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »

You aren't alone in that thought but unfortunately many players are now conditioned to blame something other than themselves for their deaths in PvP and add-ons are the latest in the line of excuses regardless of veracity.

No one is complaining about death here. We are complaining about the consistent observation that in the presence of certain individuals, certain large groups or certain ball groups, all your skills go grey, you suddenly become unable to hit the opponent while literally standing next to them (please do not with the git gud crap), your ping spike to wild levels, bar swapping will not happen, ultimates don't go off, and pots fail to take. Lag isn't that selective. Now I'm not saying it is this addon, but there is def some common thread here that needs to be addressed.

This literally happens to everybody. Bad server performance is blind , it doesn't care how good or bad you are at the game, how many people you run with or are fighting, lag affects everybody that's ever set foot into Cyrodiil during high population prime times. I've been accused of causing lag and locking bars by players before, but I've also been lagged out and died because skills and potions don't work while fighting those same players. I would say it's a git gud and learn to play issue, but it's pretty hard to do that when the game doesn't work. The servers/game engine are just garbage.

eternalshockcable

Its 7 year old servers and has nothing to do with your addons.

guarstompemoji

Adamus wrote: »

Add-On:
Asked players to download RDK specifically and was able to get 2 groups running that Add-On with a 3rd with players either not running the Add-On or groups 1&2 were full. Players not running the Add-On voiced "Event" issues even during non-PvP encounters. PvP encounters required enemy forces to regroup and start accompanying additional forces when engaging us. Groups we had previous encountered before tests displaying "Event" issues appeared to be on an "Even" playing field and required them to regroup as well.

No-Add-Ons:
Throughout our tests we had a group of picking up players who were using add-ons as turning off All Add-ons was a bridge too far. Voices of liberation quickly changed to voiced discomfort with players turning off all their Add-Ons but was able to run a 1-2 full groups with no Add-Ons, asked players at min. avoid any Map Ping Add-Ons. Guild members familiar with programing reviewed the code and provided lists of Add-Ons to what I specifically meant by map-ping Add-Ons. Players noticed & voiced considerable decrease in quality of gameplay when engaging in PvP, particularly with groups known for "Event" conflicts.

Thank you for taking the time to do this testing.

Reports like this do not mean that an add-on is bad. It means events surrounding it is causing some issue--as happened with Master Merchant.

It is an invitation for problem-solving, not an attack.

That said, to the author, please don't be discouraged by some of the responses. What you are encountering is pretty par for the course in any organization pushing for a test or evaluation.

InvitationNotFound

beagles wrote: »

Adamus wrote: »

Add-On:
Asked players to download RDK specifically and was able to get 2 groups running that Add-On with a 3rd with players either not running the Add-On or groups 1&2 were full. Players not running the Add-On voiced "Event" issues even during non-PvP encounters. PvP encounters required enemy forces to regroup and start accompanying additional forces when engaging us. Groups we had previous encountered before tests displaying "Event" issues appeared to be on an "Even" playing field and required them to regroup as well.

No-Add-Ons:
Throughout our tests we had a group of picking up players who were using add-ons as turning off All Add-ons was a bridge too far. Voices of liberation quickly changed to voiced discomfort with players turning off all their Add-Ons but was able to run a 1-2 full groups with no Add-Ons, asked players at min. avoid any Map Ping Add-Ons. Guild members familiar with programing reviewed the code and provided lists of Add-Ons to what I specifically meant by map-ping Add-Ons. Players noticed & voiced considerable decrease in quality of gameplay when engaging in PvP, particularly with groups known for "Event" conflicts.

Thank you for taking the time to do this testing.

Reports like this do not mean that an add-on is bad. It means events surrounding it is causing some issue--as happened with Master Merchant.

It is an invitation for problem-solving, not an attack.

That said, to the author, please don't be discouraged by some of the responses. What you are encountering is pretty par for the course in any organization pushing for a test or evaluation.

I'm not discouraged or something like that
I just do not consider any of this a real test as nothing can really be measured. A few days ago we were at a keep without a single other player. It was laggy af as somewhere on the map the faction stacks were fighting.
It is not possible to measure any impact an addon might have or not under the current situation. The players making those claims do not even try to measure anything. They just come to this conclusion because they have lag in fights where lot of things are happening (or they are happening somewhere else and they aren't aware of it, how should they?).
You will find the exactly same lag and issues on console, yet, they do not have addons. This whole thread and discussion is jut plain nonsense in my opinion. And lag does not even benefit any organized group, quite the opposite is the case.

And I do not think the comparison to master merchant is valid, as all of the data (except map pings, which are imho no issue as just moving your character will create more traffic) should already be on the client and is required there to show what's already happening. But feel free to point me to any API call (that the addon is using) that might cause any additional traffic and i might take a look at it.

Nobody likes lag or the bad server performance. But again, imho this has nothing to do with any addons. This is simply ZOS' code and their servers.

YandereGirlfriend

As a player that doesn't use Add-Ons outside of Skyshards and Lorebooks, I wouldn't mind seeing a short test of this idea.

However, I wouldn't get my hopes up for better performance, either. I had big expectations for both the AoE and Proc Set tests but neither of them really accomplished anything. There is likely no silver bullet for what ails Cyrodiil performance save for a wholesale refactoring of ZOS' serverside code.

ks888 wrote: »

@Adamus Literally all RDK does and was designed to do is combine several Add Ons everyone was already using into one Add On. Before, people had multiple Add Ons running like UI, CyrHud, Miats, Provision Team Formation, Lights of Meridia, etc.

RDK is one add-on with the capabilities of all the individual Add ons people commonly use in Cyro. It's that simple.

Lag and performance issues that can cause an inability to see enemy effects are the issue, not the Add On. Even with no add ons turned on and native ESO features like being able to highlight enemy and friendly effects - the lag is the same. It's not the players or Add Ons, it's ZOS.

Minor question but isn't Miat's a bannable Add-On?

It was super popular, I am told, before I started playing but it always sounded like the ESO equivalent of Wall Hacks.

But then again I also roll my eyes hard at mods like Raid Notifier that allow you to turn your brain off while playing and Miat's sounded like basically the PvP version of that.

InvitationNotFound

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

As a player that doesn't use Add-Ons outside of Skyshards and Lorebooks, I wouldn't mind seeing a short test of this idea.

However, I wouldn't get my hopes up for better performance, either. I had big expectations for both the AoE and Proc Set tests but neither of them really accomplished anything. There is likely no silver bullet for what ails Cyrodiil performance save for a wholesale refactoring of ZOS' serverside code.

ks888 wrote: »

@Adamus Literally all RDK does and was designed to do is combine several Add Ons everyone was already using into one Add On. Before, people had multiple Add Ons running like UI, CyrHud, Miats, Provision Team Formation, Lights of Meridia, etc.

RDK is one add-on with the capabilities of all the individual Add ons people commonly use in Cyro. It's that simple.

Lag and performance issues that can cause an inability to see enemy effects are the issue, not the Add On. Even with no add ons turned on and native ESO features like being able to highlight enemy and friendly effects - the lag is the same. It's not the players or Add Ons, it's ZOS.

Minor question but isn't Miat's a bannable Add-On?

It was super popular, I am told, before I started playing but it always sounded like the ESO equivalent of Wall Hacks.

But then again I also roll my eyes hard at mods like Raid Notifier that allow you to turn your brain off while playing and Miat's sounded like basically the PvP version of that.

Using Miat is and was not bannable.
ZOS decided that the API they provided did allow too much and changed that API. Done. Miats is not capable of what it was before.

Adamus

Wasn’t discouraged by this at all, I was only concerned about the behaviors of an add-on and wanted to voice them before recommending it to my guild. Seems like they did make changes down the road after this post, even if it had an effect or not. Would have preferred a more productive discussion but creators hold their work close and some PvPers have to post their Copium

ZOS_FalcoYamaoka

Greetings,
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