Once more, demanding answers from Devs

Ralamil

Ok, let's try this one more time:

Hi all,

Given that we won't be running any additional tests until early next year and the types of tests may be different from what we've already experimented with, we're going to close this thread as it's no longer relevant. That's not to say we no longer care about Cyrodiil performance or want your feedback; we just need to take some time to consider future tests we’d like to run. As mentioned a couple weeks ago here, none of these will occur until sometime after the new year. Once we have a plan in place, we'll spin up a new thread.

Thanks!

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_BrianWheeler @ZOS_RichLambert

Why should anyone continue to pay you for the lack of service you provide with fully half of the game functionality you offer?

You subject us to terrible, poorly-thought out tests for two months. You treat us like free QA engineers. At this point I should send you folks a bill as an independent contractor. Especially since the quote above is imply that there will be YET MORE tests.

You clearly found no performance gains that were worth making any changes over. So what, exactly, did you find out with your two months of hellish tests? The players who did the QA work for you deserve to know.

Why do you obviously consider it ok that factions stack 90 people in one keep for a battle?

What precisely was the nature of the alleged "behavioral changes" you saw dropping groups from 24 to 12, if indeed it did NOTHING to drive faction stacks apart (and I have a thousand screenshots to prove to you it did not, if you somehow doubt that to be the case)?

What impact, if any, have you found the "stuck in combat" bug to have on performance?

Why can you not fix the issues regarding break free, dodge roll, sprinting bugs that prevent the casting of skills because skill slots are greyed out?

Why do you consider it acceptable practice to make a sweeping change such as cutting group size in half while knowingly releasing an update with numerous broken synergies into Cyrodiil, the nature of which will DRASTICALLY cause more damage to go out than can be mitigated because there is no longer any cross-healing?

What are your plans going forward to get someone actually in charge of PVP? If there is no intention to give anyone the responsibility of improving PVP, I once again refer you to my initial question: What are you offering that you feel is worthy of a subscription fee?

Crash427

Well, you can hope for an answer all you want but as grandma used to say, "hope in one hand, crap in the other and see which one fills up first."

Ralamil

Crash427 wrote: »

Well, you can hope for an answer all you want but as grandma used to say, "hope in one hand, crap in the other and see which one fills up first."

I expect very little of them at this point.

Agalloch

One of the worst decisions they made since Lighting patch.

InvitationNotFound

To be fair here. The only way to figure out solutions is on the live server. So that was not a bad thing in itself.

Yet, the tests they did were garbage and did take too long (just stop after AOE cooldowns and don't repeat it with different meaningless variations - there would have been reasonable tests like removing all item procs for one week...). While i actually do like the changes to the group size, healing, buffs and so on, it is quite frustrating to see, that there are more bugs now then there were before (orb synergy, crashes and so on).

The other thing that gets completely ignored is, that these performance issues started with their performance updates (performance was never really great, but it got much worse with that update). They certainly messed up something there and it should be the place where they should spend their ressources.

Claiming that players just have figured out how to spam AOEs in the first place is just wrong. The real bad performance started exactly with the performance update. It is ridiculous to claim that overnight players figured out how to spam AOEs just exactly on that day the patch hit live servers. Claiming that the CP increase is responsible for that (easier to spam AOEs now) is also completely wrong. On PC EU No-CP this has been possible since i can remember. That's not a new thing. Yet, the performance issues just started exactly on the day they released their performance update. But yes, it must be some weird player behavior that has changed....

alterfenixeb17_ESO

InvitationNotFound wrote: »

To be fair here. The only way to figure out solutions is on the live server. So that was not a bad thing in itself.

Yet, the tests they did were garbage and did take too long (just stop after AOE cooldowns and don't repeat it with different meaningless variations - there would have been reasonable tests like removing all item procs for one week...). While i actually do like the changes to the group size, healing, buffs and so on, it is quite frustrating to see, that there are more bugs now then there were before (orb synergy, crashes and so on).

The other thing that gets completely ignored is, that these performance issues started with their performance updates (performance was never really great, but it got much worse with that update). They certainly messed up something there and it should be the place where they should spend their ressources.

Claiming that players just have figured out how to spam AOEs in the first place is just wrong. The real bad performance started exactly with the performance update. It is ridiculous to claim that overnight players figured out how to spam AOEs just exactly on that day the patch hit live servers. Claiming that the CP increase is responsible for that (easier to spam AOEs now) is also completely wrong. On PC EU No-CP this has been possible since i can remember. That's not a new thing. Yet, the performance issues just started exactly on the day they released their performance update. But yes, it must be some weird player behavior that has changed....

As much as I do not agree with those recent changes (both of them should not be really combined) I agree with that statement about AOE

- Templar Puncturing Strikes - very first skill every templar learns. Also main skill of most rotations really since the very beginning. Amount of time it took to learn it? 0 hours.
- Bow skills - again 0 hours. Originally all those skill lines were unlocked and everyone could learn about those moment they logged in the first time.
- Detonation - same deal. It's effectiveness had to be tested ofc but figuring out that skill exists and what it can provide could take no more than 0 hours.

Also it never took much time to figure out how the game works and what is expected to work best like PuncturingSweep was just the obvious choice for every magicka templar since the very beta events.

Also one more thing that came to my mind. Vicious Death. One of those first sets (if not the first one) that was considered as troublesome. How much time did it take for organized groups to figure this out? They knew that drill since it became available on PTS. And also it was nicely announced in patch notes to make sure players do not miss that one.

Sorry but pointing fingers toward players that it is them that they figure this out (how did they dare?) is just weird.

Ralamil

InvitationNotFound wrote: »

To be fair here. The only way to figure out solutions is on the live server. So that was not a bad thing in itself.

And you know what? In general, I don't disagree with you there. But these were both excessive and poorly-planned, in my opinion. Further, I have no problem helping to test out changes, but they need to learn to compensate their players properly. Double AP? Woo, not like I don't already have 19 million - at least - stockpiled on my main with nothing to spend it on... Give me crowns, give me a pet, an outfit, a dye, ANYTHING that I might actually use or think "well that was neat of them!"

Yet, the tests they did were garbage and did take too long (just stop after AOE cooldowns and don't repeat it with different meaningless variations - there would have been reasonable tests like removing all item procs for one week...). While i actually do like the changes to the group size, healing, buffs and so on, it is quite frustrating to see, that there are more bugs now then there were before (orb synergy, crashes and so on).

Sure, and I'm not surprised some folks actually like the changes. But they didn't address the stated goal of the tests and basically came out of left field for most of us who suffered through the tests in good faith thinking that it MIGHT possibly lead to something good. But performance is still just as bad. People still stack just as densely. Except now the number of groups has gone up, even if the number of players remained static.

The other thing that gets completely ignored is, that these performance issues started with their performance updates (performance was never really great, but it got much worse with that update). They certainly messed up something there and it should be the place where they should spend their ressources.

Valid point, I should update my list of demands to include getting a response on this, lol.

Claiming that players just have figured out how to spam AOEs in the first place is just wrong. The real bad performance started exactly with the performance update. It is ridiculous to claim that overnight players figured out how to spam AOEs just exactly on that day the patch hit live servers. Claiming that the CP increase is responsible for that (easier to spam AOEs now) is also completely wrong. On PC EU No-CP this has been possible since i can remember. That's not a new thing. Yet, the performance issues just started exactly on the day they released their performance update. But yes, it must be some weird player behavior that has changed....

And here's the other thing: Their ENTIRE combat system relies on the fact that there ARE no cooldowns. If you have the resources, you can use the skill/perform the action. That's one thing which makes it so unique and interesting among available MMOs. The minute you (poorly and rapidly) try to reverse on that to compensate for lacking servers or an inability to code properly is the minute you remove everything interesting about your game.

Soul_Demon

Ralamil wrote: »

InvitationNotFound wrote: »

To be fair here. The only way to figure out solutions is on the live server. So that was not a bad thing in itself.

And you know what? In general, I don't disagree with you there. But these were both excessive and poorly-planned, in my opinion. Further, I have no problem helping to test out changes, but they need to learn to compensate their players properly. Double AP? Woo, not like I don't already have 19 million - at least - stockpiled on my main with nothing to spend it on... Give me crowns, give me a pet, an outfit, a dye, ANYTHING that I might actually use or think "well that was neat of them!"

Yet, the tests they did were garbage and did take too long (just stop after AOE cooldowns and don't repeat it with different meaningless variations - there would have been reasonable tests like removing all item procs for one week...). While i actually do like the changes to the group size, healing, buffs and so on, it is quite frustrating to see, that there are more bugs now then there were before (orb synergy, crashes and so on).

Sure, and I'm not surprised some folks actually like the changes. But they didn't address the stated goal of the tests and basically came out of left field for most of us who suffered through the tests in good faith thinking that it MIGHT possibly lead to something good. But performance is still just as bad. People still stack just as densely. Except now the number of groups has gone up, even if the number of players remained static.

The other thing that gets completely ignored is, that these performance issues started with their performance updates (performance was never really great, but it got much worse with that update). They certainly messed up something there and it should be the place where they should spend their ressources.

Valid point, I should update my list of demands to include getting a response on this, lol.

Claiming that players just have figured out how to spam AOEs in the first place is just wrong. The real bad performance started exactly with the performance update. It is ridiculous to claim that overnight players figured out how to spam AOEs just exactly on that day the patch hit live servers. Claiming that the CP increase is responsible for that (easier to spam AOEs now) is also completely wrong. On PC EU No-CP this has been possible since i can remember. That's not a new thing. Yet, the performance issues just started exactly on the day they released their performance update. But yes, it must be some weird player behavior that has changed....

And here's the other thing: Their ENTIRE combat system relies on the fact that there ARE no cooldowns. If you have the resources, you can use the skill/perform the action. That's one thing which makes it so unique and interesting among available MMOs. The minute you (poorly and rapidly) try to reverse on that to compensate for lacking servers or an inability to code properly is the minute you remove everything interesting about your game.

Bolded the portion I agree with the most here....at this point ESO with all its quirks over the years has maintained a spot in games with some very specific play that other games just don't have. If they are changing ESO to be more reflective of the same mechanics other games have, why would they not think the players would just go play WoW or some other game with the same boring and static mechanics they are moving to at this point? Has this occurred ESO and have they thought out how to compete directly with games that have better track records with those combat styles and better coding teams? Do you think your team has more talent and experience in those combat styles? Seems to me those things should be asked and quickly as you leap off the cliff here.

Joy_Division

InvitationNotFound wrote: »

To be fair here. The only way to figure out solutions is on the live server. So that was not a bad thing in itself.

I'm sorry, but the "to be fair" excuse went out the window the minute they moved Brian from PvP dev to Combat lead and didn;t replace him.

ZOS is not being fair: they can;t even be bothered to hire a PvP dev to actually investigate or reform the root causes for these issues, so the only thing they can do is throw spaghetti at the wall testing band-aid solutions that just amount to limiting how we can play and what we can do in Cyrodiil.

Ralamil

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_BrianWheeler @ZOS_RichLambert

Still waiting. This game is *** falling to pieces. Now I'm hearing it's not even just PVP that's a dumpster fire. Do you actually have any plans to make this game worth money again, or should we all just move on to greener pastures finally?

Ackwalan

I'm curious how this event will turn out. I know people have been claiming ESO is on it's last day, but if this event is a crash and burn.....

Greasytengu

Somehow performance has gotten even worse. I think this game is circling the drain.

Ralamil

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_BrianWheeler @ZOS_RichLambert

The silence of the devs on their ruining PVP speaks volumes. Do you realize people are actively talking about leaving as soon as a new game becomes available as a direct result of the poorly though-out decision to change long-standing PVP conventions "because you like the (still unnamed) behavioral changes?"

Ralamil

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_BrianWheeler @ZOS_RichLambert

Do I need to start doing daily reminders that players feel ZOS owes us at least a half-assed explanation (we're REALLY not asking too much from you people at this point, since you're not particularly inspiring confidence in anything at the moment) as to what behavioral changes were observed by ruining Cyrodiil?

JayKwellen

Ralamil wrote: »

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_BrianWheeler @ZOS_RichLambert

Do I need to start doing daily reminders that players feel ZOS owes us at least a half-assed explanation (we're REALLY not asking too much from you people at this point, since you're not particularly inspiring confidence in anything at the moment) as to what behavioral changes were observed by ruining Cyrodiil?

I figured it out in another thread while talking about this exact same issue.

Think about Midyear Mayhem. It's kind of the last remaining thing that brings people of any measure into PvP these days.

Now, think about how awful it's going to be for everyone this year who isn't already an established PvPer with either a guild of their own, or the desire and/or skill to play solo/small scale.

For all the great masses that show up this year, they're going to be in for a rude awakening. They'll probably be left to fend for themselves, and without a group (as every established crown and guild group will be full) they'll be without any allies to help them.

They're going to get destroyed. Seriously, it's gonna be gross.

Most people, particularly the 'seasonal-PvPers', have no interest in wandering Cyrodiil alone and getting dunked on every time they poke their head outside their gate. Likely most of them will simply throw their hands up and say "**** this ****" and leave.

And there it is. There's the mysterious "behavioral change" they like so much -- people choosing to do anything other than PvP. They don't want to fix cyrodiil, so instead they can slowly choke it to death by simply making it so miserable for new people that the population finally withers away until it dies completely.

Of course I might be wrong. I'd be more than happy for them to come here and actually prove me wrong. Judging by the continued radio silence on this issue though, I'd place some real good money on that not happening.

HanStolo

that's is their problem. They are just bad at customer relations. There wouldn't be all of these posts if they would just address the issues to their customers and have a plan of action. The fact that they literally never answer any of these questions just makes the situation that much worse and *** off more people. It's just terrible customer service and arrogant to be quite honest.

Ralamil

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_BrianWheeler @ZOS_RichLambert

Do any of you realize that this on-going radio silence has damaged your game far more than LITERALLY any other course of action you could have taken. You owe us all a lot of explanations as to why you consider it acceptable for a company to drop a bomb on part of their product and then not say a *** thing while the community fractures and leaves.

It's almost like you don't know how to run a company, and certainly obvious that you no longer know how to manage relations with your playerbase.

hexentb16_ESO

They could just buy better servers with some of the massive gamble box money they make. But I doubt they'll do that. Why spend money on fixing server performance once and for all when you can just pocket it instead.

Agalloch

2 months and still no answer. And we still have a PVP CYRO CUT in a HALF with no performance gains.

ZOS , PLEASE revert the changes ..WE WANT OUR CYRODIIL BACK!