Trader swap issue - EU server

OsManiaC

tahol10069 wrote: »

StabbityDoom wrote: »

People like to be done and move on and anyone lingering on something is considered aberrant somehow. I refuse to be that way when something is truly wrong. I’m almost always ready to forgive for good reasons or even just an honest mistake. But I’ll say The reasons you gave for his saying this doesn’t make it okay. They want to sweep it under the rug and minimize it, and these outlets make that difficult. We make that difficult. If anything, they should recognize the asset it is to have players who care enough to want things to be better. There’s always trolls and people who come just to be miserable humans. But that’s not most of the people weighing in on this topic, and I resent the implications. So, move on and be done if you want. I’m disappointed with it and don’t see that changing too soon.

I normally just leave the game when I'm really unhappy with it, or the company running it. I have never made a "I unsub) post, and I think people who make them are little ridiculous. But there hasn't been a word about guilds who lost money. For a guild formed for casual players who could do only one bid (because hey, we don't have money to make several bids, to my knowledge ZOS doesn't take promissory notes) the situation is truly catastrophic. We lost the money, and we didn't get the trader because someone else took it. So no income either. We are talking about those "no obligations"-guilds that are so much talked about when Auction House is mentionded. "There are guilds that have no obligations". Yes, but not many, and those few are now doomed if ZOS doesn't give them the bidmoney back.

I normally don't repeat myself. I don't bang my head to a wall. If I get frustrated, I leave and think that it just isn't worth it. I act like that in IRL too. I avoid mental stress because IMHO, few things in this life are worth stressing about. But I see unjustice SO BIG here that I can't just stop bringing it up until someone comes and tells how they will correct this situation. If todays patch notes informe that the bid money is given back, I will shut up. I still won't resub, and I don't forgive but at least they fixed my biggest grievance.

But right now I feel like no one cares, and I just can't understand it.

Hello Friend,

I am running three guilds, both have no fee and no sale requirements yes I kick offlineers but send mails everytime before I kick.

last week I won two spots in Rimmen and one spot in malabal tor. I worked so hard for this, bid all my money on first choices and less for other 9s as I had no gold left. and lost the spot I legally won . all extra efford me and my guildies made gone for good.

I did the fight before u23 goes live and after. unfortunately I am done and after this gold things fixed I will handover all my three guilds to their new leader. I just want my gold back, I dont care anymore about todays outcome. as no one cared me while I fought against multi bidding for weeks and used my phone at work to check eso forums and spam always

I tried my best and succedeed so far, made a good community good guild events etc.. ,until zos ruined everything as it also created everything

tahol10069

@OsManiaC Thank you for your comment. We are exactly in the same situation (though I'm not GM, I'm just a guild member making ruckus about this because someone has to) I wish more GM's who lost their money would chime in. We small guilders have been entirely too silent about this (well I haven't but much good has it done). Everyone is talking about big returns and exploits, when the much bigger tragedy are the guilds that are 100% done if they don't get their money back. Their members are not the big sellers who can now come up with 100k donations. And because we are small fishes on the sea, we are easy to overlook.

OsManiaC

tahol10069 wrote: »

@OsManiaC Thank you for your comment. We are exactly in the same situation (though I'm not GM, I'm just a guild member making ruckus about this because someone has to) I wish more GM's who lost their money would chime in. We small guilders have been entirely too silent about this (well I haven't but much good has it done). Everyone is talking about big returns and exploits, when the much bigger tragedy are the guilds that are 100% done if they don't get their money back. Their members are not the big sellers who can now come up with 100k donations. And because we are small fishes on the sea, we are easy to overlook.

whole multi bidding idea was a disaster for smaller guilds, chain reaction will end up with a smaller guild got kicked out of its spot.

I will never forget how ZOS introduced this with "as long as you have enough gold"

that was a groin shot.

redgreensunset

@ZOS_GinaBruno not even in a trade guild right now, but will the comment on the gold situation include addressing how the situation with the guilds who lost their gold but got no trader will be handled? Because I agree that this is far more important, and possibly far more destabilizing for the economy, than the introduction of excess gold.
And I'm probably going to get quite a few people in this thread on my back for saying that, but it is. Excess gold if left there as it is will cause some inflation, how much remains to be seen and this week where the whole trader thing is still in flux cannot be used to judge how bad it'll be, but not tending to this issue sounds like it'll make many smaller and medium trading guilds throw in the towel, creating a vacuu,m in trading which is far more destabilizing for the economy and ,uch more likely to cause great inflation among other thing.

Dont_do_drugs

We should wait fir after maintenance. Zos already announced they will make an announcement also addressing it after the maintenence.

OsManiaC

Dont_do_drugs wrote: »

We should wait fir after maintenance. Zos already announced they will make an announcement also addressing it after the maintenence.

yeah dont mind all these week I lurked here. keeping all threads alive

redgreensunset

Dont_do_drugs wrote: »

We should wait fir after maintenance. Zos already announced they will make an announcement also addressing it after the maintenence.

Yes I know. But so much time and focus on this forum have been going towards addressing the excess gold issue, which I admit is important, but there has been said next to nothing about the guilds that have lost their bid gold and not even got a trader this week. I just wanted to keep it alive that this issue is from the financial stability view far more important to address and that I hope that the announcement later will address in specifics what will be done here. I frankly care, again from a financial perspective as well as a human one, far more about these traders and what happens to them than about any fraudulent trader gms that may be out there.

Dont_do_drugs

OsManiaC wrote: »

Dont_do_drugs wrote: »

We should wait fir after maintenance. Zos already announced they will make an announcement also addressing it after the maintenence.

yeah dont mind all these week I lurked here. keeping all threads alive

I really hope u will get ur gold back before Sunday. If not I am also glad to borrow u the missing amount till zos finished it. This game needs some fresh gm and idealists. U are one of the really nice ones and ure not even around long time. it's a shame u want to go. It's more of the old and cynic ones which might need to go at some point. Also it's fun reading ur adds and the names of ur guilds.

anitajoneb17_ESO

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/490765/pc-mac-patch-notes-v5-1-7

Titansteele

tahol10069 wrote: »

@OsManiaC Thank you for your comment. We are exactly in the same situation (though I'm not GM, I'm just a guild member making ruckus about this because someone has to) I wish more GM's who lost their money would chime in. We small guilders have been entirely too silent about this (well I haven't but much good has it done). Everyone is talking about big returns and exploits, when the much bigger tragedy are the guilds that are 100% done if they don't get their money back. Their members are not the big sellers who can now come up with 100k donations. And because we are small fishes on the sea, we are easy to overlook.

There have been many small guild masters chiming in but in all fairness the size of the guild is of no relevance here, ZOS should provide refunds to people who won bids and ended up either with nothing or a 10K hire somewhere else.

agegarton

Communication on the raft of issues this problem has created has been a new low.

I’m so sick and tired of ZoS at this point. The incompetence is truly staggering.

Maybe it’s time for a break.

Urigall

I've read - and re-read - the final sentence in paragraph two of the information that anita posted a couple of replies up.

Maybe I'm seriously thick. I don't understand what it means.

Titansteele

Urigall wrote: »

I've read - and re-read - the final sentence in paragraph two of the information that anita posted a couple of replies up.

Maybe I'm seriously thick. I don't understand what it means.

It could be interpreted a couple of ways, you are not thick. I think it means (and I could be wrong) that if your GB went to 0 then you are not allowed to bid this week and if you do they will just take any gold you place in bids from you

I think this is not a bad solution IF they had said that before hand and the GM`s who did NOTHING wrong and just took the gold out of the GB for safe keeping got the opportunity to replace it before hand.
Before anyone attacks me, my guild is not a large trading guild, I did not remove the extra gold and this does not negatively impact the guild that I am GM of in anyway.

anitajoneb17_ESO

Urigall wrote: »

I've read - and re-read - the final sentence in paragraph two of the information that anita posted a couple of replies up.

Maybe I'm seriously thick. I don't understand what it means.

It means that they didn't allow negative balances for guild banks, but the remaining gold due to for deletion will be recovered later via the bids.

Example :
Guild A has received 10 million extra gold, but for some reason, their current guild bank balance is 4 million. ZOS deletes those 4 millions, bringing the guild bank to zero, but there are still 6 millions that need to be deleted.

Now let's assume guild A has already placed bids for, say, 7 millions : ZOS will cancel their bids and refund them 1 million instead of 7, clearing their due.

If guild A has NOT YET placed bids, but does place bids between now and sunday evening, those will be cancelled and the gold deleted too.

Not sure yet what happens if the guild balance is zero but they place no bids. I assume they'll do the same next week and go on and on until the dues are cleared. It's clever. After all, if a trading guild cannot place bids in the long term, it dies eventually.

However, it's not 100% efficient as a strategy. All those people need to do is to disband the guild and make a new one with the same people. Kinda obvious though, the ban hammer may reach them too if they do that.

Wait and see...

Edit : none of this unfortunately tackles the issues of guilds who got no trader and no refund and end up with nothing to bid this week. I hope ZOS will take care of that too.

tahol10069

Deleted, I'm in a hurry and replied to wrong post.

vesselwiththepestle

Urigall wrote: »

I've read - and re-read - the final sentence in paragraph two of the information that anita posted a couple of replies up.

Maybe I'm seriously thick. I don't understand what it means.

If your guild received let's say 100,000,000 extra gold due to the bug, they took 100,000,000 gold away from the guild bank. If the guild bank only had 50,000,000 gold on it, they took that 50,000,000 and checked if the guild had already bid on trader spots. If so, they canceled those bids and took that money, too.

Urigall

Titansteele wrote: »

I think it means (and I could be wrong) that if your GB went to 0 then you are not allowed to bid this week and if you do they will just take any gold you place in bids from you

I think this is not a bad solution IF they had said that before hand and the GM`s who did NOTHING wrong and just took the gold out of the GB for safe keeping got the opportunity to replace it before hand.
Before anyone attacks me, my guild is not a large trading guild, I did not remove the extra gold and this does not negatively impact the guild that I am GM of in anyway.

That makes sense - thanks.

The action taken - at first blush - seems appropriate in the context of swiping ill-gotten gold.

The_Saint

Titansteele wrote: »

Urigall wrote: »

I've read - and re-read - the final sentence in paragraph two of the information that anita posted a couple of replies up.

Maybe I'm seriously thick. I don't understand what it means.

It could be interpreted a couple of ways, you are not thick. I think it means (and I could be wrong) that if your GB went to 0 then you are not allowed to bid this week and if you do they will just take any gold you place in bids from you

I think this is not a bad solution IF they had said that before hand and the GM`s who did NOTHING wrong and just took the gold out of the GB for safe keeping got the opportunity to replace it before hand.
Before anyone attacks me, my guild is not a large trading guild, I did not remove the extra gold and this does not negatively impact the guild that I am GM of in anyway.

why need to put gold out of the GB for safe? Why just dont give someone access to the guild gold?

marius_buys

So guilds who lost their bid due to server error get no recompensation? Nice.

vesselwiththepestle

marius_buys wrote: »

So guilds who lost their bid due theo server error get no recompensation? Nice.

Maybe try writing another ticket in game. I haven't seen ZOS reacting to this issue anywhere.

anitajoneb17_ESO

Titansteele wrote: »

I think this is not a bad solution IF they had said that before hand and the GM`s who did NOTHING wrong and just took the gold out of the GB for safe keeping got the opportunity to replace it before hand.

They said they'd delete the gold, and they also asked to not touch it. Was kind of obvious that the wise thing to do was to put the gold into the guild bank...

Blobsky

The_Saint wrote: »

Titansteele wrote: »

Urigall wrote: »

I've read - and re-read - the final sentence in paragraph two of the information that anita posted a couple of replies up.

Maybe I'm seriously thick. I don't understand what it means.

It could be interpreted a couple of ways, you are not thick. I think it means (and I could be wrong) that if your GB went to 0 then you are not allowed to bid this week and if you do they will just take any gold you place in bids from you

I think this is not a bad solution IF they had said that before hand and the GM`s who did NOTHING wrong and just took the gold out of the GB for safe keeping got the opportunity to replace it before hand.
Before anyone attacks me, my guild is not a large trading guild, I did not remove the extra gold and this does not negatively impact the guild that I am GM of in anyway.

why need to put gold out of the GB for safe? Why just dont give someone access to the guild gold?

There are many other risks with this: Mistyping a zero in a bid, somebody getting access by mistake (I myself have accidentally demoted myself from GM twice over the years, though luckily the crown went to people who did not wish to keep it in these cases). The simple answer is, the gold is safer on a storage character or separate guildbank, than in the main guild.

That being said, it seems that so far ZoS have rightfully (hopefully) taken this into account for those GMs who have moved gold between guildbanks during this time. We'll see if this remains the case, given these GMs have not abused anything as they have not spent, and clearly have no intentions, of spending that gold

Another important question....

Will the bid system work properly this week?

Titansteele

The_Saint wrote: »

Titansteele wrote: »

Urigall wrote: »

I've read - and re-read - the final sentence in paragraph two of the information that anita posted a couple of replies up.

Maybe I'm seriously thick. I don't understand what it means.

It could be interpreted a couple of ways, you are not thick. I think it means (and I could be wrong) that if your GB went to 0 then you are not allowed to bid this week and if you do they will just take any gold you place in bids from you

I think this is not a bad solution IF they had said that before hand and the GM`s who did NOTHING wrong and just took the gold out of the GB for safe keeping got the opportunity to replace it before hand.
Before anyone attacks me, my guild is not a large trading guild, I did not remove the extra gold and this does not negatively impact the guild that I am GM of in anyway.

why need to put gold out of the GB for safe? Why just dont give someone access to the guild gold?

GM`s with very large GB balances remove gold from the GB`s to prevent human error. If you planned to place a 15mil bid and added one extra zero you suddenly have a 150mil bid. There is no in game mechanism to undo a mistake like that (and yes I have heard of one person making that booboo) so they use a safeguard.

Other guilds need to have multiple people with access to guild funds as officers run a lottery or prize events which come out of guild funds.

These are just examples to answer the posed question, I am sure there are more examples.

LarsS

I like a clarification from zos, did we get compensated for lost bids and won bids that were bugged? We won a bid that was bugged so in reallity we lost the money, if my numbers are right we did not get compensation.

Titansteele

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Titansteele wrote: »

I think this is not a bad solution IF they had said that before hand and the GM`s who did NOTHING wrong and just took the gold out of the GB for safe keeping got the opportunity to replace it before hand.

They said they'd delete the gold, and they also asked to not touch it. Was kind of obvious that the wise thing to do was to put the gold into the guild bank...

A fair point well made but I have been following this closely and managed to miss that instruction ... I feel for the small guilds that do not frequent the forums and thought that they had passed go and collected their £200. I also feel for any large guilds that didn't spend the gold but didn't have it in their GB pre patch.

anitajoneb17_ESO

Titansteele wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Titansteele wrote: »

I think this is not a bad solution IF they had said that before hand and the GM`s who did NOTHING wrong and just took the gold out of the GB for safe keeping got the opportunity to replace it before hand.

They said they'd delete the gold, and they also asked to not touch it. Was kind of obvious that the wise thing to do was to put the gold into the guild bank...

A fair point well made but I have been following this closely and managed to miss that instruction ... I feel for the small guilds that do not frequent the forums and thought that they had passed go and collected their £200. I also feel for any large guilds that didn't spend the gold but didn't have it in their GB pre patch.

Admittedly, the "instructions" weren't delivered in the best possible form, I agree on that.
Also, I don't feel that the bids being removed is meant as a "punishment" but rather simply as a mean of reimbursement.
It's not clear, however, what happens if a guild with 0 guild bank and gold due (say for instance 1 million) places several bids : let's say, 1 bid for 1 million, another one for 2 millions. Will both bids be cancelled ? Or just the 1-million bid for the sake of reimbursement ? We don't know. @ZOS_GinaBruno , would you please give us some insight ? It's important for bidding for next week.

agegarton

Titansteele wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Titansteele wrote: »

I think this is not a bad solution IF they had said that before hand and the GM`s who did NOTHING wrong and just took the gold out of the GB for safe keeping got the opportunity to replace it before hand.

They said they'd delete the gold, and they also asked to not touch it. Was kind of obvious that the wise thing to do was to put the gold into the guild bank...

A fair point well made but I have been following this closely and managed to miss that instruction ... I feel for the small guilds that do not frequent the forums and thought that they had passed go and collected their £200. I also feel for any large guilds that didn't spend the gold but didn't have it in their GB pre patch.

For the record, I left the gold where it was, but.......where exactly did anyone from ZoS say that GMa should not touch the gold?

anitajoneb17_ESO

agegarton wrote: »

Titansteele wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Titansteele wrote: »

I think this is not a bad solution IF they had said that before hand and the GM`s who did NOTHING wrong and just took the gold out of the GB for safe keeping got the opportunity to replace it before hand.

They said they'd delete the gold, and they also asked to not touch it. Was kind of obvious that the wise thing to do was to put the gold into the guild bank...

A fair point well made but I have been following this closely and managed to miss that instruction ... I feel for the small guilds that do not frequent the forums and thought that they had passed go and collected their £200. I also feel for any large guilds that didn't spend the gold but didn't have it in their GB pre patch.

For the record, I left the gold where it was, but.......where exactly did anyone from ZoS say that GMa should not touch the gold?

here :

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/de/discussion/comment/6289795/#Comment_6289795




If you have an excess gold in your guild bank because of the bug, you don't need to do anything at first. Of course it's better if you don't touch the gold, in order to make it easier for us to track, and if needed,to delete the gold.

Urigall

A quick thanks to the others who clarified the puzzling (to me...) sentence from ZoS.

Probably not needed but I like to acknowledge help when it's provided.

Dont_do_drugs

Sry I don't see any point in removing the dupe gold from the bank. It's also making investigating harder for zos. I know there are habits like removing, I agree, I also did that safegauard for wrong bid placement, but for one week it wasn't that much of a problem not doing so, especially knowing that zos *** up something with the gold flowing into a guild bank. This is common sense. There was a simple clear thing: don't touch it, report it.

I'm pretty sure th at those removing it, not even using it, but removing and moving it through accounts were at leat apealed by the idea that zos won't find the gold. This is how u exploit in a smart way. And if zos doesn't take action at this It als says: u can at least try your luck.