Trader swap issue - EU server

VaranisArano

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

OsManiaC wrote: »

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

Dont_do_drugs wrote: »

Atm a lot of people are complaining about missing gold from the unseccessfull won bid and people saying they didn't get the full amount removed. So are u going on working on the gold part or has it been it now, Jessica?

Any gold that is "missing" or guild trader bids canceled due to removing the gold associated with them was done as part of this effort. Any gold that's been removed was removed because it was duped during the issue last Sunday.

I am trying very hard to understand.

very basic question I will ask.

I bid 5 million gold. system says I hired xyz with 5 million. in virtual reality some other guild is there.

where is my 5 million gold

Just chatted with a few folks here and it sounds like there is a separate issue happening. Apologies for misunderstanding those of you I did. If you lost gold on Sunday, August 18 as a result of the server issues, that is not expected behavior and we will help you. One such example is if you placed a bid last week and won a guild trader on Sunday, but now find yourself in a position where your gold for the bid was taken out of your guild bank but you do not have the guild trader that the system said you won. We're currently exploring options to help those of you who are in that position. We'll provide an update within the next few hours with more details.

Thanks again for your patience, and apologies again for the initial misunderstanding.

Thank you for the clarification!

Gandrhulf_Harbard

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

Runs wrote: »

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

Second, we are investigating a small number of guilds and individuals who severely abused the issue and spent, moved, or otherwise laundered a large sum of duped gold and will be taking appropriate action on those accounts.

Will you guys just take action on the alt accounts people used to take the gold out or will you be going after the main accounts involved. I mean surely no one was dumb enough to take it out with their main account. Seems pointless if it got laundered back to a main account and they just lose access to a mule.

We have all the necessary logs and can see exactly who spent, moved, laundered etc. the duped gold and where it went.

So how come this:

Mathius_Mordred wrote: »

Well, they didn't take it all. We got an extra 10 million gold back and now we have just over 3 million left, looks like we made a profit of about 2 million gold, if this is pro-rata some of the bigger guilds may have made a few tens of millions still.

Is apparently happening?

All The Best

Thorvarg

Thorvarg wrote: »

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

Runs wrote: »

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

Second, we are investigating a small number of guilds and individuals who severely abused the issue and spent, moved, or otherwise laundered a large sum of duped gold and will be taking appropriate action on those accounts.

Will you guys just take action on the alt accounts people used to take the gold out or will you be going after the main accounts involved. I mean surely no one was dumb enough to take it out with their main account. Seems pointless if it got laundered back to a main account and they just lose access to a mule.

We have all the necessary logs and can see exactly who spent, moved, laundered etc. the duped gold and where it went.

Most guild still have around 50% of the false repayments.

This

SammiSakura

Thorvarg wrote: »

Thorvarg wrote: »

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

Runs wrote: »

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

Second, we are investigating a small number of guilds and individuals who severely abused the issue and spent, moved, or otherwise laundered a large sum of duped gold and will be taking appropriate action on those accounts.

Will you guys just take action on the alt accounts people used to take the gold out or will you be going after the main accounts involved. I mean surely no one was dumb enough to take it out with their main account. Seems pointless if it got laundered back to a main account and they just lose access to a mule.

We have all the necessary logs and can see exactly who spent, moved, laundered etc. the duped gold and where it went.

Most guild still have around 50% of the false repayments.

This

from what i've seen it's not "most" it is "some". I think anyone with extra still should just send a ticket in rather than post here, it'll get seen to that way

cynaes

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

Dont_do_drugs wrote: »

Atm a lot of people are complaining about missing gold from the unseccessfull won bid and people saying they didn't get the full amount removed. So are u going on working on the gold part or has it been it now, Jessica?

Any gold that is "missing" or guild trader bids canceled due to removing the gold associated with them was done as part of this effort. Any gold that's been removed was removed because it was duped during the issue last Sunday.

@ZOS_JessicaFolsom, your reply doesn't quite cover all issues.

There are several people (over on the German language part of the forums) who are absolutely sure that not enough gold was removed from their own guilds. According to them, they still have 50% more gold in the guild bank than they should have (based on excel sheets that track guild bank gold, not on "guessing").

Idinuse

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

Last weekend, an issue occurred with guild trader multi-bidding on the PC-EU server that negatively affected game performance and resulted in some guilds receiving excess gold back from lost bids. We’re sensitive to the negative impact this could have on the PC-EU server economy. During today’s maintenance we did a few things to address the extra gold that some guilds on the PC-EU server received last Sunday as a result of a guild trader/multi-bidding issue.

First, we have removed all the extra gold from the guild banks of those who were affected by this issue. In cases where we needed to remove more gold than the guild had in their bank, we reduced the guild bank down to zero gold. Any guilds whose bank balance is zero as a result of this also had their guild trader bids canceled this week, and the gold from those bids removed. The result is we’ve been able to remove the majority of the excess gold from the PC-EU server.

Second, we are investigating a small number of guilds and individuals who severely abused the issue and spent, moved, or otherwise laundered a large sum of duped gold and will be taking appropriate action on those accounts.

During today’s maintenance, we also put in place some additional safeguards to help prevent the multi-bidding issue from occurring in the future and have turned the guild history API back on. We will monitor how these safeguards perform and take additional measures as needed. Thank you all for your patience.

Cously

reprosal wrote: »

Cously wrote: »

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

Runs wrote: »

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

Second, we are investigating a small number of guilds and individuals who severely abused the issue and spent, moved, or otherwise laundered a large sum of duped gold and will be taking appropriate action on those accounts.

Will you guys just take action on the alt accounts people used to take the gold out or will you be going after the main accounts involved. I mean surely no one was dumb enough to take it out with their main account. Seems pointless if it got laundered back to a main account and they just lose access to a mule.

We have all the necessary logs and can see exactly who spent, moved, laundered etc. the duped gold and where it went.

I don't suppose you could disclose what the punishment will be? I understanding naming and shaming, but at least knowing what will happen with those people would reassure the community. It does matter if will be a 3 day ban or a perma ban or loss of assets.

You scared?

No. I don't run a trade guild. I am a fan or Mrs. Justice.

EDIT: In fact I play on NA and I feel bad for YOU guys over there.

Moonsorrow

Thanks for the update @ZOS_JessicaFolsom and nice to see you will be helping those who did lost gold and did not get a trader on top of that. Those trade guilds hopefully will be compensated.

And yes, what comes to the exploiters who spent/moved/laundered gold.. Uncle Sheo does not keep Volendrung available at Cyrodiil around the clock, so i am sure you can lend it and use it on the naughty people who made everyone else have a really bad week on their playtime.

Trading, finding materials and consumables even with sites and addons been really not fun this week for the players. So while there is no need for more outrage with torches and pitchforks, there for sure is a strong wish for justice to happen.

Economy is a big part of both the pve and pvp worlds, that is how we all fund our activities, upgrade our gear, make gold to be able to drink expensive potions. To play the game and have fun. Trade Kiosks and the economy is a delicate system that exploiters should not be able to break and abuse.

Thus, i wish you and the rest of ZOS crew strenght to deal with this extra work on top of your regular schedule!

Since it is friday, i wish a good weekend to the ZOS people and to all the honest traders and players - hope you all have fun!

ShowMeYourMoney

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

LMar wrote: »

@ZOS_JessicaFolsom how do we get in touch for this

Sit tight for now. You may not need to contact CS for resolution. That's what we're currently looking into.

How do you explain excessive amount of gold was removed from guild bank? Even the fact is no one touched it.

And how do you explains guilds still having that duped gold from last Sunday after this patch?

Mitrenga

Call IRS Criminal Investigation Division, Jess!

DragonRacer

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

OsManiaC wrote: »

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

Dont_do_drugs wrote: »

Atm a lot of people are complaining about missing gold from the unseccessfull won bid and people saying they didn't get the full amount removed. So are u going on working on the gold part or has it been it now, Jessica?

Any gold that is "missing" or guild trader bids canceled due to removing the gold associated with them was done as part of this effort. Any gold that's been removed was removed because it was duped during the issue last Sunday.

I am trying very hard to understand.

very basic question I will ask.

I bid 5 million gold. system says I hired xyz with 5 million. in virtual reality some other guild is there.

where is my 5 million gold

Just chatted with a few folks here and it sounds like there is a separate issue happening. Apologies for misunderstanding those of you I did. If you lost gold on Sunday, August 18 as a result of the server issues, that is not expected behavior and we will help you. One such example is if you placed a bid last week and won a guild trader on Sunday, but now find yourself in a position where your gold for the bid was taken out of your guild bank but you do not have the guild trader that the system said you won. We're currently exploring options to help those of you who are in that position. We'll provide an update within the next few hours with more details.

Thanks again for your patience, and apologies again for the initial misunderstanding.

THANK YOU.

This was my primary concern I wanted to see addressed.

I am not affected... yet... being that I am console. But I could absolutely relate to the guilds devastated by "winning" but not really winning, and being out both their money and a trader. Because something like that happening to my guild would hurt a lot, too.

Here's to hoping console doesn't experience what PC EU did.

SteveCampsOut

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

OsManiaC wrote: »

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

Dont_do_drugs wrote: »

Atm a lot of people are complaining about missing gold from the unseccessfull won bid and people saying they didn't get the full amount removed. So are u going on working on the gold part or has it been it now, Jessica?

Any gold that is "missing" or guild trader bids canceled due to removing the gold associated with them was done as part of this effort. Any gold that's been removed was removed because it was duped during the issue last Sunday.

I am trying very hard to understand.

very basic question I will ask.

I bid 5 million gold. system says I hired xyz with 5 million. in virtual reality some other guild is there.

where is my 5 million gold

Just chatted with a few folks here and it sounds like there is a separate issue happening. Apologies for misunderstanding those of you I did. If you lost gold on Sunday, August 18 as a result of the server issues, that is not expected behavior and we will help you. One such example is if you placed a bid last week and won a guild trader on Sunday, but now find yourself in a position where your gold for the bid was taken out of your guild bank but you do not have the guild trader that the system said you won. We're currently exploring options to help those of you who are in that position. We'll provide an update within the next few hours with more details.

Thanks again for your patience, and apologies again for the initial misunderstanding.

@ZOS_JessicaFolsom Pacrooti's Hirelings on EU was one of those affected by the Trader being won, email confirmation of the win, and inability to hire an open trader as the game believed we already had Nirywy in Cormount until we didn't because someone came along and hired her.

anitajoneb17_ESO

tahol10069 wrote: »

Though I have no idea how this slipped past you when this was brought up several days ago.

Yes, this is puzzling...

Minghash

Well, they fouled up again.

Nobody touched the gold added last week and yet my guild is now robbed of all existing reserves, got all bids placed for this week revoked without refund and lost all tax income from the current week.

We did nothing immoral and still are left with nothing.

Dont_do_drugs

Minghash wrote: »

Well, they fouled up again.

Nobody touched the gold added last week and yet my guild is now robbed of all existing reserves, got all bids placed for this week revoked without refund and lost all tax income from the current week.

We did nothing immoral and still are left with nothing.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/490854/gold-calculations-done-wrong-it-is-over-total-mess#latest

i wonder if its better to collect it in that thread?

agegarton

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

LMar wrote: »

@ZOS_JessicaFolsom how do we get in touch for this

Sit tight for now. You may not need to contact CS for resolution. That's what we're currently looking into.

Sit tight until.......when? Next Sunday.....?

ZOS_JessicaFolsom

Thanks for the follow-up questions and reports of some duped gold remaining in-game on the PC-EU server. On Monday, August 26, we will be performing additional passes to remove the remaining excess gold from guild banks. If your guild is still in possession of duped gold, we ask that you please work with us by not touching it. If your guild has moved/traded the duped gold, this is your second chance to put it back so we can remove it in the next sweep.

We also have an update for small number of guilds who lost gold on Sunday night due to placing a winning bid but not getting the guild trader they should have won. Our Support team will be refunding the guild leader of any affected guilds 150% of the bid amount. Guild leaders will receive an in-game mail once this is done, letting them know on which of their characters we gold we deposited the gold. Our aim is to have all these complete within 48 hours, before the next guild trader bid cycle is over.

Thank you again for your patience. We appreciate your cooperation and understanding. Please let us know if you have any questions.

LMar

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

Thanks for the follow-up questions and reports of some duped gold remaining in-game on the PC-EU server. On Monday, August 26, we will be performing additional passes to remove the remaining excess gold from guild banks. If your guild is still in possession of duped gold, we ask that you please work with us by not touching it. If your guild has moved/traded the duped gold, this is your second chance to put it back so we can remove it in the next sweep.

We also have an update for small number of guilds who lost gold on Sunday night due to placing a winning bid but not getting the guild trader they should have won. Our Support team will be refunding the guild leader of any affected guilds 150% of the bid amount. Guild leaders will receive an in-game mail once this is done, letting them know on which of their characters we gold we deposited the gold. Our aim is to have all these complete within 48 hours, before the next guild trader bid cycle is over.

Thank you again for your patience. We appreciate your cooperation and understanding. Please let us know if you have any questions.

@ZOS_JessicaFolsom a question. For guilds that still have some duped gold (as far as we know, we are not sure) how are we going to bid for this weekend's trader bids without touching the gold? Or is it ok to bid to within the limit of where we think the gold should be from before the incident?

Elsonso

Personally... given the rage at the excess gold caused by the bug, I probably would have just gone with a 100% refund instead of a 150% refund.

therift

A 150% refund on bids that were debited but kiosks were not secured seems like reasonable compensation for the guild.

It would be an extremely difficult, if not impossible, task to forecast lost sales for guild members.

reoskit

lordrichter wrote: »

Personally... given the rage at the excess gold caused by the bug, I probably would have just gone with a 100% refund instead of a 150% refund.

Presumably, they intended it to be compensation for the lost sales tax this week, given that these were the guilds that were supposed to have won their kiosks? For some guilds that may be more, for some less. Who knows. Doesn't restore the lost sales for guildies, but I suppose a trader is never guaranteed.

It's a little dizzying to follow all the bouncing balls on this, especially with guilds reporting in from all sides; gold taken when it shouldn't have been, not enough gold taken, no gold restored. Ooooph.

Dont_do_drugs

lordrichter wrote: »

Personally... given the rage at the excess gold caused by the bug, I probably would have just gone with a 100% refund instead of a 150% refund.

guilds which didnt get the trader also lost out on taxes of a week, i find it quite fair.

ZOS_JessicaFolsom

LMar wrote: »

ZOS_JessicaFolsom a question. For guilds that still have some duped gold (as far as we know, we are not sure) how are we going to bid for this weekend's trader bids without touching the gold? Or is it ok to bid to within the limit of where we think the gold should be from before the incident?

Fair question. If you're not sure, go ahead and bid as you normally would. If you end up spending some of the duped gold, our Support team will reach out and coordinate with the guild leader to repay the duped gold sum (CS will remove it.)

ZOS_JessicaFolsom

lordrichter wrote: »

Personally... given the rage at the excess gold caused by the bug, I probably would have just gone with a 100% refund instead of a 150% refund.

We did discuss that. Given that the trade guilds who were affected by this (it was just a handful) missed out on a week's worth of profits since they were unable to get a guild trader, we felt a little extra gold was appropriate and wouldn't harm the overall server economy.

reoskit

Side note: props for the increased communication, Jess.

LMar

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

LMar wrote: »

ZOS_JessicaFolsom a question. For guilds that still have some duped gold (as far as we know, we are not sure) how are we going to bid for this weekend's trader bids without touching the gold? Or is it ok to bid to within the limit of where we think the gold should be from before the incident?

Fair question. If you're not sure, go ahead and bid as you normally would. If you end up spending some of the duped gold, our Support team will reach out and coordinate with the guild leader to repay the duped gold sum (CS will remove it.)

Thanks for the clarification and the steps taken to rectify the whole situation. Obviously most players want the economy to go back to normal and not take advantage of the situation. I hope I'm not just being wishful here

Dont_do_drugs

just a handful....im cracking up.

SammiSakura

reoskit wrote: »

Side note: props for the increased communication, Jess.

i second this. Its good to have some answers. even if I find the whole second pass thing weird.

Dont_do_drugs

SammiSakura wrote: »

reoskit wrote: »

Side note: props for the increased communication, Jess.

i second this. Its good to have some answers. even if I find the whole second pass thing weird.

i agree. like wtf. shouldnt the investigation be done already? how many chances do exploiters get? just waow.

VaranisArano

lordrichter wrote: »

Personally... given the rage at the excess gold caused by the bug, I probably would have just gone with a 100% refund instead of a 150% refund.

According to ZOS, its a small number of guilds, and they presumably

Dont_do_drugs wrote: »

SammiSakura wrote: »

reoskit wrote: »

Side note: props for the increased communication, Jess.

i second this. Its good to have some answers. even if I find the whole second pass thing weird.

i agree. like wtf. shouldnt the investigation be done already? how many chances do exploiters get? just waow.

The second pass has been reported by the guilds who didn't exploit. They saw that not all of the excessive gold had been removed and brought the problem to ZOS' attention just as they ought.