The needed changes for stam Nightblades to make them viable again.

BohnT

Up front: This postfocuses on changes that reduce the ganking potential of nightblades and making them viable in small-scale, 1vX and larger groups as they are pretty bad outside of ganking.

The current problems:
- bad survivability
- missing buffs
- useless skills
- locked to specific builds

1. Bad survivability:
Stamina nightblades have no reliable self heals all class heals are based on killing your target ---> completely trash in PvP unless you gank.
The main defensive ability cloak is broken and often doesn't reliably protects you or is hard countered by other classes e.g. hurricane, talons, curse, vampires bane etc.

Potential solve: give mark target major lifesteal as a debuff resulting in a reliable heal for nightblades anytime they deal damage.
Fix cloak to be more reliable, maybe add a small shield that prevents weak aoes to reveal you with the first impact

2. Missing Buffs
Stamnb has no good skill to get access to major brutality unless you use momentum or the crappy power extraction.
This could be added to surprise attack and in return get rid of that stupid ganking stun for 9.2 seconds with the passives
Stamnb doesn't have access to major mending aswell this could be added to agony, make one morph deal disease damage and the other remains to deal magic damage.

3. Useless skills
Mirage, agony, debilitate andfor a lesser extent mark target
I already provided proposes for agony and mark target.
change debilitate to a stam dot that deals disease damage and restores stamina once the enemy dies
mirage could be revamped to a reverse sun shield , you cast the ball around you and it absorbs 10% of the incoming damage and heals you for that amount. Or give mirage major brutality and major sorcery with 1 stamina and 1 magicka morph
Some passives need to be addressed master assasin is just a stupid gank buff, change it to 8% magic/wep dmg all the time
Give executioner the same buff for stamina as it now has for magicka
Same thing goes for magicka flood

4 locked to one playstyle
Ja you combine every problem I mentioned above you come to the result that stamnb is pushed towards ganking and needs 2h for the extra healing so most nightblades have exactly the same build 2h+ monster set+ medium armor and then gank them all.
This could be changed imo with the adjustments I mentioned above + reduce the stealth multiplier to 100% extra damage that is still a lot but it would make ganking ineffective unless you find 3 others to help you

Please tell me your thoughts and be constructive

Killset

I just want some sort of major mending. I would trade cloak for it in a minute. The nerf to vitality pots devastated non gank nightblades in open world. Other classes are not affected by it that much. I feel like that nerf alone was aimed directly at the class.

Dorrino

"Mirage, agony, debilitate and for a lesser extent mark target"

All these skills, being niche are nevertheless used both in pvp (agony, mark target) and pve (mirage, debilitate).

Main problem with stam nb, as you noticed, is survivability.

Giving them major mending will turn them into dks without tankiness of the later.


All 'fixes' to stam nightblades in pvp can be summarized in one sentence 'fix cloak':)

So, the simplest solution would be to let cloak purge dots again (including curses and backlashes) and add increased mag cost with each application (like streaks and dodges).

This will do multiple things:

1. Buff both stam and mag nb in pvp against any other class.

2. Will finally get rid of perma cloaking with magicka nbs.

3. Will allow cloak to be a powerful defensive tool even if it will break instantly.


Additionally i'd add a 0.2-0.3 sec damage immunity on cloak activation to finally get rid of cloak insta breaking if any other ability landed on the nb at the very same time as he casted cloak.

In my mind these changes alone will be enough to make nbs on par with other classes in pvp.

Stamicka

BohnT wrote: »

Up front: This postfocuses on changes that reduce the ganking potential of nightblades and making them viable in small-scale, 1vX and larger groups as they are pretty bad outside of ganking.

The current problems:
- bad survivability
- missing buffs
- useless skills
- locked to specific builds

1. Bad survivability:
Stamina nightblades have no reliable self heals all class heals are based on killing your target ---> completely trash in PvP unless you gank.
The main defensive ability cloak is broken and often doesn't reliably protects you or is hard countered by other classes e.g. hurricane, talons, curse, vampires bane etc.

Potential solve: give mark target major lifesteal as a debuff resulting in a reliable heal for nightblades anytime they deal damage.
Fix cloak to be more reliable, maybe add a small shield that prevents weak aoes to reveal you with the first impact

2. Missing Buffs
Stamnb has no good skill to get access to major brutality unless you use momentum or the crappy power extraction.
This could be added to surprise attack and in return get rid of that stupid ganking stun for 9.2 seconds with the passives
Stamnb doesn't have access to major mending aswell this could be added to agony, make one morph deal disease damage and the other remains to deal magic damage.

3. Useless skills
Mirage, agony, debilitate andfor a lesser extent mark target
I already provided proposes for agony and mark target.
change debilitate to a stam dot that deals disease damage and restores stamina once the enemy dies
mirage could be revamped to a reverse sun shield , you cast the ball around you and it absorbs 10% of the incoming damage and heals you for that amount. Or give mirage major brutality and major sorcery with 1 stamina and 1 magicka morph
Some passives need to be addressed master assasin is just a stupid gank buff, change it to 8% magic/wep dmg all the time
Give executioner the same buff for stamina as it now has for magicka
Same thing goes for magicka flood

4 locked to one playstyle
Ja you combine every problem I mentioned above you come to the result that stamnb is pushed towards ganking and needs 2h for the extra healing so most nightblades have exactly the same build 2h+ monster set+ medium armor and then gank them all.
This could be changed imo with the adjustments I mentioned above + reduce the stealth multiplier to 100% extra damage that is still a lot but it would make ganking ineffective unless you find 3 others to help you

Please tell me your thoughts and be constructive

1. Self class heals for stamina classes are limited All across the board. Stamplars have repentance, but target must die first, DKs have dragon blood which is already known to be a bad heal, Stam sorcs are the exception, it has pretty strong class heals, but the point is Stam heals are almost all from weapon skill lines and vigor, I don't think that Stamblade needs its own personal class heal.

2. Stamplar doesn't have access to major brutality either, but it doesn't really matter because rally is such a good heal that most people have it slotted, and it's an easy source of major brutality for any Stam class, I'm not really sure how this would benefit stamblades much, since you kind of need rally for better survivability anyway. If you look at DKs not many use igneous weapons, and Pvp Stam sorcs won't use crit surge unless they don't have a 2h equipped. Rally is just THAT good.

Major mending is a bit of a stretch for stamblades. You shouldn't have healing on par with Stamplars and DKs but at the same time have a higher offensive capability.


3. All classes have useless skills. Look at stam sorcs, they have some useless skills yet they are still very powerful. Stamplar basically has an entire tree (Dawns Wrath) that's useless. Point is that not all skills in a skill line need to be useful for a Stam class since you have all but 2 weapon skill lines available to you.


Overall I agree with some of your points but I think that some of the ideas are overkill. Stamblades are still viable for 1vx but I agree that they do need some changes to participate in large scale group pvp.

SodanTok

I would agree with some, disagree with most but one thing stands up as very interesting to me.
Giving Reaper's Mark (Minor or Major) Lifesteal. This debuff, currently sitting (I think) only on Blood Altar (lol) should get into the game more (meaning on utility skills that arent as bad as altar is)

Also obv, fixing cloak, that's always good suggestion

Gilvoth

after re-reading, i don't agree with you

Gilvoth

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/317806/please-make-a-proper-assassin-class/p1
make an assassin class that nightblade was intended for.

rimmidimdim

Give cloak purge again and the class is good again. But I like the added cost to it within four seconds idea. Like roll dodge and streak. The is would be a buff and also a reasonable compromise. I like the is idea whoever's it was. Cheers.

arkansas_ESO

All that NB really needs is that Cloak is made to be less 'high risk, high reward.' Cloak shouldn't get me a guaranteed crit and make me untargetable if it works, but it also shouldn't just be a waste of magic if I touch a sorc's Hurricane, or a Templar's jabs, or a DK's inhale, or mage light, or if somebody near me uses a detect pot, etc etc .

apostate9

The thread right below this one is complaining about Mag Nightblades. My takeaway, nightblades are mad they can't faceroll everything.

/dropsmic

Feedinginsanity

@BohnT I completely agree with you, however this is just the attitude of a person who does not want to conform to the meta. Guess what? For over 5 months I hated my main character, and I felt powerless. I did not want to fall to corruption originally, but I did. I tried for so long and suffered with so much pain and anguish so guess what I did? I read the patch notes for the Homestead update and then I lost all of my respect for this game. After that, I made my own proc set build that is original and not a copy and pasted SypherPk build. I have really high stats, and I mean really high stats.. I put 75 points into blessed and I'm also using a powered 2h sword. I heal like The Mazziah and I hit like a truck with my own abilities along with my instant 9k damage with viper/velidreth. My build takes no skill to play at all. My 8-year-old sister mastered it in an hour. I am a Redguard, I don;t like staying in stealth so I am not a vampire, and I always keep siphoning attacks up at all times. My resources are always looking good and my opponents run dry really easily because of cost increase poisons.

These are my stats when I buff up:

Strider_Roshin

To be competitive in PvE, and group play pvp would be a wonderful thing. I agree very much with your post. It would be nice if they completely changed the assassination passive, and made it less ganky, and more supportive for the class outside of stealth.

Lokey0024

The reason arent top dog is they are a regen based class, and armor choices to supplement this medium and light, which are a joke because of the amount of damage every player can do. This should have been made real apparent this last week. Fights where balanced and no one class stood out as being the end all badass must play class. Long story, long. (srry) CP system needs revamped to give a more balanced picture to pvp. NBs are great still, just not the best.

CatchMeTrolling

Stam NBs aren't viable ? lol

PrinceRyzen

rimmidimdim wrote: »

Give cloak purge again and the class is good again. But I like the added cost to it within four seconds idea. Like roll dodge and streak. The is would be a buff and also a reasonable compromise. I like the is idea whoever's it was. Cheers.

Cloak having purge would go a long way for NBs who want to stay and fight.

But cost increase on cloak is a bad idea. Streak is akin to roll dodge. But cloak is akin to shields. Shields have no cost increase. (And unlike cloak they always work)

Honestly tho, just think of it in practice. The ability that gets broken, interrupted, ignored (detect pot) and ends up being a waste of resource more than any other ability, having a cost increase. Yuck.

No thanx. No ability that often fails to work the first time should ever have a cost increase.

olsborg

Stamblade is terrible for open world fighting, other then gank, yes.

Hell even minor mending would help tons. Change power extraction into a selfbuff for major brutality and give it minor lifesteal and/or minor mending.

Would love to get more defencive abilities other then cloak(wich is a joke/broken)

Chair

Stamblade is already super stronk no need to change it all.

"Potential solve: give mark target major lifesteal as a debuff resulting in a reliable heal for nightblades anytime they deal damage."
No just NO mark does not need that at all like AT ALL mark is already a massive xv1 stamblade skill I hate it.

SneaK

I'll admit it, I am triggered by all the people that don't know how to StamNB. I don't disagree with your suggestions on some of those skills as they aren't really used much, if at all. However I do disagree that Stamblades are bad outside of ganking.

Strider_Roshin

SneaK wrote: »

I'll admit it, I am triggered by all the people that don't know how to StamNB. I don't disagree with your suggestions on some of those skills as they aren't really used much, if at all. However I do disagree that Stamblades are bad outside of ganking.

Do you play with multiple characters? I do, and I can make any class look OP. I can wipe a small Zerg with my magsorc, and dueling with my magDK is stupid easy. You know what my issue is? I can be successful in every aspect with my stamblade, but it requires a ton more skill, and attention to do so; and the worst part is that it is less rewarding. It pisses me off that I can kill so many more people by myself with my magsorc than I can with my stamblade, and it requires less skill to do it.

If a certain class or play style has a higher skill cap, it better pay off when it comes to performance. But in this game it doesn't.

That needs to change. And I would rather see stamblades get stronger than get simpler because the reason why the stamblade is my favorite is because it requires me to pay attention more which makes me more engaged with the game.

SneaK

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

SneaK wrote: »

I'll admit it, I am triggered by all the people that don't know how to StamNB. I don't disagree with your suggestions on some of those skills as they aren't really used much, if at all. However I do disagree that Stamblades are bad outside of ganking.

Do you play with multiple characters? I do, and I can make any class look OP. I can wipe a small Zerg with my magsorc, and dueling with my magDK is stupid easy. You know what my issue is? I can be successful in every aspect with my stamblade, but it requires a ton more skill, and attention to do so; and the worst part is that it is less rewarding. It pisses me off that I can kill so many more people by myself with my magsorc than I can with my stamblade, and it requires less skill to do it.

If a certain class or play style has a higher skill cap, it better pay off when it comes to performance. But in this game it doesn't.

That needs to change. And I would rather see stamblades get stronger than get simpler because the reason why the stamblade is my favorite is because it requires me to pay attention more which makes me more engaged with the game.

Outside of Stamsorc, yes I play every class.

I don't really understand your post to be honest. My statement was just that Stamblades aren't reduced to ganking...

Strider_Roshin

SneaK wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

SneaK wrote: »

I'll admit it, I am triggered by all the people that don't know how to StamNB. I don't disagree with your suggestions on some of those skills as they aren't really used much, if at all. However I do disagree that Stamblades are bad outside of ganking.

Do you play with multiple characters? I do, and I can make any class look OP. I can wipe a small Zerg with my magsorc, and dueling with my magDK is stupid easy. You know what my issue is? I can be successful in every aspect with my stamblade, but it requires a ton more skill, and attention to do so; and the worst part is that it is less rewarding. It pisses me off that I can kill so many more people by myself with my magsorc than I can with my stamblade, and it requires less skill to do it.

If a certain class or play style has a higher skill cap, it better pay off when it comes to performance. But in this game it doesn't.

That needs to change. And I would rather see stamblades get stronger than get simpler because the reason why the stamblade is my favorite is because it requires me to pay attention more which makes me more engaged with the game.

Outside of Stamsorc, yes I play every class.

I don't really understand your post to be honest. My statement was just that Stamblades aren't reduced to ganking...

As I'm sure you know, in this game you can "play how you want". Meaning I can be a stamblade healer for dungeons, I can be a stamblade tank, I can PvP in open world without cloak. But guess what? I'm going to be terrible in every one of those aspects when compared to any other class. Now could I outperform some casual stam DK player at tanking? Or some magplar at healing? Or a magsorc at PvP? Or a magDK at dueling? Most definitely. But put any of those classes in my hands with the mentioned context, and I'll outperform my stamblade in their respective area with ease.

When I say that stamblades are limited to ganking, it's not because some magical genie smacks my hand every time my character comes out of stealth, it's because stamblades have a huge natural disadvantage doing anything outside of ganking. That doesn't mean you can't be successful at it. It means it's a huge uphill battle, and no matter how good you'll get at this game; someone with much less talent can do the same, and be just as successful if not more.

Docmandu

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

I'm going to be terrible in every one of those aspects

So you admit it's a L2P issue

Strider_Roshin

Docmandu wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

I'm going to be terrible in every one of those aspects

So you admit it's an issue

Misrepresent my statement, and I'll misrepresent yours

SneaK

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

SneaK wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

SneaK wrote: »

I'll admit it, I am triggered by all the people that don't know how to StamNB. I don't disagree with your suggestions on some of those skills as they aren't really used much, if at all. However I do disagree that Stamblades are bad outside of ganking.

Do you play with multiple characters? I do, and I can make any class look OP. I can wipe a small Zerg with my magsorc, and dueling with my magDK is stupid easy. You know what my issue is? I can be successful in every aspect with my stamblade, but it requires a ton more skill, and attention to do so; and the worst part is that it is less rewarding. It pisses me off that I can kill so many more people by myself with my magsorc than I can with my stamblade, and it requires less skill to do it.

If a certain class or play style has a higher skill cap, it better pay off when it comes to performance. But in this game it doesn't.

That needs to change. And I would rather see stamblades get stronger than get simpler because the reason why the stamblade is my favorite is because it requires me to pay attention more which makes me more engaged with the game.

Outside of Stamsorc, yes I play every class.

I don't really understand your post to be honest. My statement was just that Stamblades aren't reduced to ganking...

As I'm sure you know, in this game you can "play how you want". Meaning I can be a stamblade healer for dungeons, I can be a stamblade tank, I can PvP in open world without cloak. But guess what? I'm going to be terrible in every one of those aspects when compared to any other class. Now could I outperform some casual stam DK player at tanking? Or some magplar at healing? Or a magsorc at PvP? Or a magDK at dueling? Most definitely. But put any of those classes in my hands with the mentioned context, and I'll outperform my stamblade in their respective area with ease.

When I say that stamblades are limited to ganking, it's not because some magical genie smacks my hand every time my character comes out of stealth, it's because stamblades have a huge natural disadvantage doing anything outside of ganking. That doesn't mean you can't be successful at it. It means it's a huge uphill battle, and no matter how good you'll get at this game; someone with much less talent can do the same, and be just as successful if not more.

Okay. I get what you meant. Different perspective though. In terms of stam characters, you're really only a tank, killer, or utility build. We don't have stam healers (yet). So, for the case of a stam NB where would it fall in those categories...

Not a good stam tank, probably the best stam killer (maybe stamsorc), and good utility builds.

I don't see where it's reduced to ganking. Running cloak doesn't mean you're a ganker.

Strider_Roshin

SneaK wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

SneaK wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

SneaK wrote: »

I'll admit it, I am triggered by all the people that don't know how to StamNB. I don't disagree with your suggestions on some of those skills as they aren't really used much, if at all. However I do disagree that Stamblades are bad outside of ganking.

Do you play with multiple characters? I do, and I can make any class look OP. I can wipe a small Zerg with my magsorc, and dueling with my magDK is stupid easy. You know what my issue is? I can be successful in every aspect with my stamblade, but it requires a ton more skill, and attention to do so; and the worst part is that it is less rewarding. It pisses me off that I can kill so many more people by myself with my magsorc than I can with my stamblade, and it requires less skill to do it.

If a certain class or play style has a higher skill cap, it better pay off when it comes to performance. But in this game it doesn't.

That needs to change. And I would rather see stamblades get stronger than get simpler because the reason why the stamblade is my favorite is because it requires me to pay attention more which makes me more engaged with the game.

Outside of Stamsorc, yes I play every class.

I don't really understand your post to be honest. My statement was just that Stamblades aren't reduced to ganking...

As I'm sure you know, in this game you can "play how you want". Meaning I can be a stamblade healer for dungeons, I can be a stamblade tank, I can PvP in open world without cloak. But guess what? I'm going to be terrible in every one of those aspects when compared to any other class. Now could I outperform some casual stam DK player at tanking? Or some magplar at healing? Or a magsorc at PvP? Or a magDK at dueling? Most definitely. But put any of those classes in my hands with the mentioned context, and I'll outperform my stamblade in their respective area with ease.

When I say that stamblades are limited to ganking, it's not because some magical genie smacks my hand every time my character comes out of stealth, it's because stamblades have a huge natural disadvantage doing anything outside of ganking. That doesn't mean you can't be successful at it. It means it's a huge uphill battle, and no matter how good you'll get at this game; someone with much less talent can do the same, and be just as successful if not more.

Not a good stam tank, probably the best stam killer (maybe stamsorc), and good utility builds.

I don't see where it's reduced to ganking. Running cloak doesn't mean you're a ganker.

Stamblades actually are tied with the worse stam DPS next to Stamplars. The difference between those two is that Stamplars actually provide group utility with minor breach/fracture.

No, cloak doesn't make you a ganker, but whereas other classes get a damage shield or major mending, we get cloak; a move that gets rendered useless if your fighting a Templar (jabs), sorc (hurricane), DK (volatile armor), or Nightblade (piercing mark). Now I don't mind counter play, but the majority of this counter play requires zero effort (Nightblades are the only ones that need to give up a slot) they need to either gives us another means of defense or buff our strengths.

SneaK

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

SneaK wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

SneaK wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

SneaK wrote: »

I'll admit it, I am triggered by all the people that don't know how to StamNB. I don't disagree with your suggestions on some of those skills as they aren't really used much, if at all. However I do disagree that Stamblades are bad outside of ganking.

Do you play with multiple characters? I do, and I can make any class look OP. I can wipe a small Zerg with my magsorc, and dueling with my magDK is stupid easy. You know what my issue is? I can be successful in every aspect with my stamblade, but it requires a ton more skill, and attention to do so; and the worst part is that it is less rewarding. It pisses me off that I can kill so many more people by myself with my magsorc than I can with my stamblade, and it requires less skill to do it.

If a certain class or play style has a higher skill cap, it better pay off when it comes to performance. But in this game it doesn't.

That needs to change. And I would rather see stamblades get stronger than get simpler because the reason why the stamblade is my favorite is because it requires me to pay attention more which makes me more engaged with the game.

Outside of Stamsorc, yes I play every class.

I don't really understand your post to be honest. My statement was just that Stamblades aren't reduced to ganking...

As I'm sure you know, in this game you can "play how you want". Meaning I can be a stamblade healer for dungeons, I can be a stamblade tank, I can PvP in open world without cloak. But guess what? I'm going to be terrible in every one of those aspects when compared to any other class. Now could I outperform some casual stam DK player at tanking? Or some magplar at healing? Or a magsorc at PvP? Or a magDK at dueling? Most definitely. But put any of those classes in my hands with the mentioned context, and I'll outperform my stamblade in their respective area with ease.

When I say that stamblades are limited to ganking, it's not because some magical genie smacks my hand every time my character comes out of stealth, it's because stamblades have a huge natural disadvantage doing anything outside of ganking. That doesn't mean you can't be successful at it. It means it's a huge uphill battle, and no matter how good you'll get at this game; someone with much less talent can do the same, and be just as successful if not more.

Not a good stam tank, probably the best stam killer (maybe stamsorc), and good utility builds.

I don't see where it's reduced to ganking. Running cloak doesn't mean you're a ganker.

Stamblades actually are tied with the worse stam DPS next to Stamplars. The difference between those two is that Stamplars actually provide group utility with minor breach/fracture.

No, cloak doesn't make you a ganker, but whereas other classes get a damage shield or major mending, we get cloak; a move that gets rendered useless if your fighting a Templar (jabs), sorc (hurricane), DK (volatile armor), or Nightblade (piercing mark). Now I don't mind counter play, but the majority of this counter play requires zero effort (Nightblades are the only ones that need to give up a slot) they need to either gives us another means of defense or buff our strengths.

DPS is different, I didn't use the term on purpose. Stamblade has excellent burst and killing potential, probably the best in game. Also, doesn't SA give Major Fracture?

The argument about cloak I'd make is that DK's/Sorcs/Templars all have to run certain abilities too. Staples of the class. All StamDK's run Igneous Shield, all Stamsorcs run Hurricane, most/all Stamplars run cleanse. Not running cloak, IMO, is equivalent to one of these classes not running their staple abilities.

I hope I'm not coming off as disrespectful, I think it's been good banter.

Strider_Roshin

SneaK wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

SneaK wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

SneaK wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

SneaK wrote: »

I'll admit it, I am triggered by all the people that don't know how to StamNB. I don't disagree with your suggestions on some of those skills as they aren't really used much, if at all. However I do disagree that Stamblades are bad outside of ganking.

Do you play with multiple characters? I do, and I can make any class look OP. I can wipe a small Zerg with my magsorc, and dueling with my magDK is stupid easy. You know what my issue is? I can be successful in every aspect with my stamblade, but it requires a ton more skill, and attention to do so; and the worst part is that it is less rewarding. It pisses me off that I can kill so many more people by myself with my magsorc than I can with my stamblade, and it requires less skill to do it.

If a certain class or play style has a higher skill cap, it better pay off when it comes to performance. But in this game it doesn't.

That needs to change. And I would rather see stamblades get stronger than get simpler because the reason why the stamblade is my favorite is because it requires me to pay attention more which makes me more engaged with the game.

Outside of Stamsorc, yes I play every class.

I don't really understand your post to be honest. My statement was just that Stamblades aren't reduced to ganking...

As I'm sure you know, in this game you can "play how you want". Meaning I can be a stamblade healer for dungeons, I can be a stamblade tank, I can PvP in open world without cloak. But guess what? I'm going to be terrible in every one of those aspects when compared to any other class. Now could I outperform some casual stam DK player at tanking? Or some magplar at healing? Or a magsorc at PvP? Or a magDK at dueling? Most definitely. But put any of those classes in my hands with the mentioned context, and I'll outperform my stamblade in their respective area with ease.

When I say that stamblades are limited to ganking, it's not because some magical genie smacks my hand every time my character comes out of stealth, it's because stamblades have a huge natural disadvantage doing anything outside of ganking. That doesn't mean you can't be successful at it. It means it's a huge uphill battle, and no matter how good you'll get at this game; someone with much less talent can do the same, and be just as successful if not more.

Not a good stam tank, probably the best stam killer (maybe stamsorc), and good utility builds.

I don't see where it's reduced to ganking. Running cloak doesn't mean you're a ganker.

Stamblades actually are tied with the worse stam DPS next to Stamplars. The difference between those two is that Stamplars actually provide group utility with minor breach/fracture.

No, cloak doesn't make you a ganker, but whereas other classes get a damage shield or major mending, we get cloak; a move that gets rendered useless if your fighting a Templar (jabs), sorc (hurricane), DK (volatile armor), or Nightblade (piercing mark). Now I don't mind counter play, but the majority of this counter play requires zero effort (Nightblades are the only ones that need to give up a slot) they need to either gives us another means of defense or buff our strengths.

DPS is different, I didn't use the term on purpose. Stamblade has excellent burst and killing potential, probably the best in game. Also, doesn't SA give Major Fracture?

The argument about cloak I'd make is that DK's/Sorcs/Templars all have to run certain abilities too. Staples of the class. All StamDK's run Igneous Shield, all Stamsorcs run Hurricane, most/all Stamplars run cleanse. Not running cloak, IMO, is equivalent to one of these classes not running their staple abilities.

I hope I'm not coming off as disrespectful, I think it's been good banter.

Don't worry, you're not. The major contrast that the Nightblades have with their iconic skill is that their means of defense gets striped away; making them defenseless.

Now with that said, I think adding minor protection to dark cloak was a phenomenal idea since you're still left with something even when you can't effectively cloak. However, they really botched such great potential by giving it such a short duration. If they were to drastically increase the duration of minor protection I would feel a lot better about it.

SneaK

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

SneaK wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

SneaK wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

SneaK wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

SneaK wrote: »

I'll admit it, I am triggered by all the people that don't know how to StamNB. I don't disagree with your suggestions on some of those skills as they aren't really used much, if at all. However I do disagree that Stamblades are bad outside of ganking.

Do you play with multiple characters? I do, and I can make any class look OP. I can wipe a small Zerg with my magsorc, and dueling with my magDK is stupid easy. You know what my issue is? I can be successful in every aspect with my stamblade, but it requires a ton more skill, and attention to do so; and the worst part is that it is less rewarding. It pisses me off that I can kill so many more people by myself with my magsorc than I can with my stamblade, and it requires less skill to do it.

If a certain class or play style has a higher skill cap, it better pay off when it comes to performance. But in this game it doesn't.

That needs to change. And I would rather see stamblades get stronger than get simpler because the reason why the stamblade is my favorite is because it requires me to pay attention more which makes me more engaged with the game.

Outside of Stamsorc, yes I play every class.

I don't really understand your post to be honest. My statement was just that Stamblades aren't reduced to ganking...

As I'm sure you know, in this game you can "play how you want". Meaning I can be a stamblade healer for dungeons, I can be a stamblade tank, I can PvP in open world without cloak. But guess what? I'm going to be terrible in every one of those aspects when compared to any other class. Now could I outperform some casual stam DK player at tanking? Or some magplar at healing? Or a magsorc at PvP? Or a magDK at dueling? Most definitely. But put any of those classes in my hands with the mentioned context, and I'll outperform my stamblade in their respective area with ease.

When I say that stamblades are limited to ganking, it's not because some magical genie smacks my hand every time my character comes out of stealth, it's because stamblades have a huge natural disadvantage doing anything outside of ganking. That doesn't mean you can't be successful at it. It means it's a huge uphill battle, and no matter how good you'll get at this game; someone with much less talent can do the same, and be just as successful if not more.

Not a good stam tank, probably the best stam killer (maybe stamsorc), and good utility builds.

I don't see where it's reduced to ganking. Running cloak doesn't mean you're a ganker.

Stamblades actually are tied with the worse stam DPS next to Stamplars. The difference between those two is that Stamplars actually provide group utility with minor breach/fracture.

No, cloak doesn't make you a ganker, but whereas other classes get a damage shield or major mending, we get cloak; a move that gets rendered useless if your fighting a Templar (jabs), sorc (hurricane), DK (volatile armor), or Nightblade (piercing mark). Now I don't mind counter play, but the majority of this counter play requires zero effort (Nightblades are the only ones that need to give up a slot) they need to either gives us another means of defense or buff our strengths.

DPS is different, I didn't use the term on purpose. Stamblade has excellent burst and killing potential, probably the best in game. Also, doesn't SA give Major Fracture?

The argument about cloak I'd make is that DK's/Sorcs/Templars all have to run certain abilities too. Staples of the class. All StamDK's run Igneous Shield, all Stamsorcs run Hurricane, most/all Stamplars run cleanse. Not running cloak, IMO, is equivalent to one of these classes not running their staple abilities.

I hope I'm not coming off as disrespectful, I think it's been good banter.

Don't worry, you're not. The major contrast that the Nightblades have with their iconic skill is that their means of defense gets striped away; making them defenseless.

Now with that said, I think adding minor protection to dark cloak was a phenomenal idea since you're still left with something even when you can't effectively cloak. However, they really botched such great potential by giving it such a short duration. If they were to drastically increase the duration of minor protection I would feel a lot better about it.

They did murder Dark Cloak. It could definitely use some love. There a lot of things they could/should do to certain abilities that could impact NBs for better or worse. I have heard on several different occasions the idea to make Shuffle only viable for 5 Medium users. That would make Blur that much more unique. Although, would kill HA Tava builds. I guess my whole basis now in our convo is that every class seems to be great at something, to me Stamblade is great at killing. I don't necessarily think that means ganking, although they are hands down great at that too.

I think there is some counter play to fight against most of those class abilities I/you mentioned earlier, like defile and poisons. I do however agree that there is too much counter play to cloak. I think a lot of people's feelings towards stamNB boils down to ZOS overbuffing classes, like Stamsorc. When one class can do everything better or equal (except ganking) than the others, it raises balance issues. In this case, it has made most NBs feel pigeon holed into ganking, where they shine above everything else.

Xvorg

Debilitate a bad skill?

A pretty cheap skill, that magicka returns and that can be spammed. Put it into 6 or 7 objectives in a zerg, and when they start diying you will see why it is a great skill.

Strider_Roshin

Xvorg wrote: »

Debilitate a bad skill?

A pretty cheap skill, that magicka returns and that can be spammed. Put it into 6 or 7 objectives in a zerg, and when they start diying you will see why it is a great skill.

Now imagine how much more effective you'd be if you used Crippling Grasp instead

Xvorg

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

Xvorg wrote: »

Debilitate a bad skill?

A pretty cheap skill, that magicka returns and that can be spammed. Put it into 6 or 7 objectives in a zerg, and when they start diying you will see why it is a great skill.

Now imagine how much more effective you'd be if you used Crippling Grasp instead

Can be put in one enemy at time. so the Dot is lost