The needed changes for stam Nightblades to make them viable again.

BohnT

SneaK wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

SneaK wrote: »

There's no constructive discussion happening in here.

@BohnT

I didn't disagree with your suggestions on some skill changes in the OP, don't agree with them all either though.. I do have a question however.

What exactly are you trying to do with your NB?

I try to be the best small-scale player I can.
I mainly play with 1 or 2 friends capturing some resources and defend them until we are outnumbered by ~ 4:1.

But this thread is not intended to buff my playstyle solely and make stamnb the next fotm class. I looked how many stamnbs I see in cyro, how good they are and what they are doing and came to the conclusion that almost any nb ganks or starts it's fight our of stealth to have a 1 time advantage during this fight. This doesn't help in Zerging, which is a big part of cyro even though most good players hate it. It doesn't help in longer fights with small groups and it doesn't helps for longer fights against multiple targets ( unless you have an extremely good gank build but then we are on the topic ganking again)

Then I looked what kills me in cyro and why I didn't survive it. I came to the conclusion that many times I don't have a chance to survive as I don't have access to good heals, shields or another reliable defence that gives me a stable amount of defense for a certain period of time until I can pressure the enemy again.
Of course I got killed in zergs or I did stupid things were I deserved to die but what drives me crazy is when I have no chance of staying alive because I don't have the tools to do so.
Fighting against a stam sorc/ mag dk / mag plar is one of those occasions I can't protect myself against them with none of my abilities that I have in an open fight. This is based on good players not on some randoms which can be killed easily.
I hope I could make my point and opinion clear

I want a balanced game I try to support any class that needs some adjustments. I'm not someone who wants to be best in anything but I'd like to have a game where actual skill is rewarded.

Fair enough. To be honest though capping/defending a resource in Cyro nowadays just attracts zergs. You are going to get zerged over time and time again anywhere near an objective. It's just the awful state to which Cyrodiil is currently. You can find fun fights for awhile, but the inevitable rogue zerg will eventually come to collect that sweet 1.5K flip tick......

Anyway - Seems like you are mainly talking about survivability in duo/trio situations... IMO this is all about pecking order and your group comp, your skill bars too. Are you guys prioritizing your targets correctly, or are your opponents picking you guys off in the correct order? As the stamblade, you need to be the one to burst the first priority, before they call you out. You also mentioned that cloak doesn't really help in longer fights, to that I disagree. In the longer fights cloak helps you reset, letting you heal, reapply buffs, and DoTs. It's actually one of my most crucial abilities on the bar for long fights.

Fighting against a stam sorc/ mag dk / mag plar is one of those occasions I can't protect myself against them with none of my abilities that I have in an open fight.

ZOS overbuffed StamSorc, and yep, I'm saying it, MagDK too. These two classes really shouldn't even be compared to others in fights. They are faceroll overperforming at the current moment. Stamsorc more so than MagDK. StamSorcs can pretty much do everything better than any stamina class there is, except StamDK tanking. When ZOS does this it makes other classes feel pigeon holed into what they are best at, which for NB's is ganking. I don't really have trouble with Magplars, they are either unkillable trolls, or have some DPS/heals but still open to being bursted.

I'm not trying to tell you stuff you already know, I am genuinely curious to the real goal cause I'm addicted to theorycrafting and you may be trying to fill in a niche playstyle.

Yes I think I said it the wrong way. Cloak is awesome but it doesn't help me when I'm getting pressured and this happens more often during longer fights.

We focus them in a prioritised way depending on each situation. Group comp is not optimal as we mainly have 1 very good stamdk and 1-2 stamnbs this means we have problems against destro ult but we get around it as I use soul siphon ( the best burst heal you can get)

technohic

Not relevant to the conversation and I really don't know @SneaK at all; but something about reading a post by a guy named "Sneak" about Night Blades makes me mentally believe he has the right answers.

SneaK

BohnT wrote: »

SneaK wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

SneaK wrote: »

There's no constructive discussion happening in here.

@BohnT

I didn't disagree with your suggestions on some skill changes in the OP, don't agree with them all either though.. I do have a question however.

What exactly are you trying to do with your NB?

I try to be the best small-scale player I can.
I mainly play with 1 or 2 friends capturing some resources and defend them until we are outnumbered by ~ 4:1.

But this thread is not intended to buff my playstyle solely and make stamnb the next fotm class. I looked how many stamnbs I see in cyro, how good they are and what they are doing and came to the conclusion that almost any nb ganks or starts it's fight our of stealth to have a 1 time advantage during this fight. This doesn't help in Zerging, which is a big part of cyro even though most good players hate it. It doesn't help in longer fights with small groups and it doesn't helps for longer fights against multiple targets ( unless you have an extremely good gank build but then we are on the topic ganking again)

Then I looked what kills me in cyro and why I didn't survive it. I came to the conclusion that many times I don't have a chance to survive as I don't have access to good heals, shields or another reliable defence that gives me a stable amount of defense for a certain period of time until I can pressure the enemy again.
Of course I got killed in zergs or I did stupid things were I deserved to die but what drives me crazy is when I have no chance of staying alive because I don't have the tools to do so.
Fighting against a stam sorc/ mag dk / mag plar is one of those occasions I can't protect myself against them with none of my abilities that I have in an open fight. This is based on good players not on some randoms which can be killed easily.
I hope I could make my point and opinion clear

I want a balanced game I try to support any class that needs some adjustments. I'm not someone who wants to be best in anything but I'd like to have a game where actual skill is rewarded.

Fair enough. To be honest though capping/defending a resource in Cyro nowadays just attracts zergs. You are going to get zerged over time and time again anywhere near an objective. It's just the awful state to which Cyrodiil is currently. You can find fun fights for awhile, but the inevitable rogue zerg will eventually come to collect that sweet 1.5K flip tick......

Anyway - Seems like you are mainly talking about survivability in duo/trio situations... IMO this is all about pecking order and your group comp, your skill bars too. Are you guys prioritizing your targets correctly, or are your opponents picking you guys off in the correct order? As the stamblade, you need to be the one to burst the first priority, before they call you out. You also mentioned that cloak doesn't really help in longer fights, to that I disagree. In the longer fights cloak helps you reset, letting you heal, reapply buffs, and DoTs. It's actually one of my most crucial abilities on the bar for long fights.

Fighting against a stam sorc/ mag dk / mag plar is one of those occasions I can't protect myself against them with none of my abilities that I have in an open fight.

ZOS overbuffed StamSorc, and yep, I'm saying it, MagDK too. These two classes really shouldn't even be compared to others in fights. They are faceroll overperforming at the current moment. Stamsorc more so than MagDK. StamSorcs can pretty much do everything better than any stamina class there is, except StamDK tanking. When ZOS does this it makes other classes feel pigeon holed into what they are best at, which for NB's is ganking. I don't really have trouble with Magplars, they are either unkillable trolls, or have some DPS/heals but still open to being bursted.

I'm not trying to tell you stuff you already know, I am genuinely curious to the real goal cause I'm addicted to theorycrafting and you may be trying to fill in a niche playstyle.

Yes I think I said it the wrong way. Cloak is awesome but it doesn't help me when I'm getting pressured and this happens more often during longer fights.

We focus them in a prioritised way depending on each situation. Group comp is not optimal as we mainly have 1 very good stamdk and 1-2 stamnbs this means we have problems against destro ult but we get around it as I use soul siphon ( the best burst heal you can get)

Yea that is a tricky group, and you're going to get focused before that DK every time. Really with a group like that it's going to be difficult to stand your ground and bang it out with other larger groups, especially destros. You know this but you and the other NB need to make sure you aren't getting picked off first and that you two are tag-teaming targets (Healers -> NBs -> the rest) when you're outnumbered. You can try to force the opponents to ball up on the DK for ulti dumps, he may not appreciate that though.. One minor suggestion for an all stam group would be for someone to run Troll King. That can help your survivability a little bit. Also, pretty sure a DK's rocks will give the group major mending as well.

All in all, you could do a few things but I think the best option would be to try to fight in areas that best suit your group. Resource towers and choke points for 3 single target type builds is the last place you'll want to be outnumbered. In my experience for that type of group your best bet is to try to string people out in fights and call out to each other when you're turning on the ones who overextend.

I know none of that advice has anything to do with NB skills, cause honestly I don't think it's a matter of minor buffs here and there, but more so what you guys can do for yourselves to best suit your small group.

technohic wrote: »

Not relevant to the conversation and I really don't know @SneaK at all; but something about reading a post by a guy named "Sneak" about Night Blades makes me mentally believe he has the right answers.

LOL

Strider_Roshin

SneaK wrote: »

There's no constructive discussion happening in here.

@BohnT

I didn't disagree with your suggestions on some skill changes in the OP, don't agree with them all either though.. I do have a question however.

What exactly are you trying to do with your NB?

I know this question wasn't directed towards​ me, but I personally would like to see Nightblades a welcomed contribution to group PvP (class specific contributions). I'm actually not against the enormous counters we have against cloak, but I would love to see the minor protection buff of dark cloak get a huge duration increase that way once the cloak does get broken; we still have some residual defense buff. And finally I would like to see Nightblades to be the king of single target DPS. Why the best? Because we're the weakest class defensively; therefore it would be rational to expect us to have the most damage output in order to compensate.

technohic

I would like some small changes. ^ I do like the idea of longer duration on the minor protection buff of dark cloak. Also; if shades did not require a target, that would be a nice QOL change Ok; so its a little more than QOL when you can put it behind LOS.

Killset

Nellzer wrote: »

Killset wrote: »

Nellzer wrote: »

KingJ wrote: »

Obviously you don't play right if you did you know what's wrong with NB.If all you do is gank and run proc sets like a scrub I guess in your eyes it's ok.To people who actually know how to play the class and don't need their armor to kill people the class needs help.

I'm so very sick of people that claim NBs aren't viable and they refuse to run proc-sets because they think it's cheese.

First of all, stamblades are fine (magblades need help).

Second, proc-sets were practically designed for stamblades. They aren't NEARLY as effective on any other stamina build. DKs and stamplars have much better options and if you're running a proc-set you're gimping yourself.

No other class plays the hit and run, elusive playstyle like a stamblade where you single out opponents and rely on unrecoverable burst to win. And no, I'm not talking about ganking, I'm talking about utilizing LoS, massive amounts of roll-dodging and use of shade to constantly fight on your terms and score kills in 1vX situations.

TLDR; stamblades are fine, if you aren't using proc-sets you're doing it wrong. Now that proc-sets are nerfed it's a small part of your burst, but needed for the stamblade playstyle.

Quit crying and practice.

I am now convinced you have no idea what you are talking about. Proc sets aren't "NEARLY" as effective on other classes lol? Have you ever dueled a Tremorscale sword and board stam DK or stam sorc? What about a Selene Stamplar with Power of the Light firing off every 6 seconds? I have. You say DK's and Stamplars have much better options. Why is that? Is it because they have competitive damage with built in major mending?

Most Stamblades I know (myself included) have had to switch to Trollking just to survive the burst classes are able to produce. Meanwhile Stam Sorcs, Stam DK's, and Stamplars are able to keep running the damage monster sets because their healing is just fine. Sorcs are hitting so hard right now it's on a whole new level.

And if you think LOS and a "massive amount of roll dodging" is the answer you are sadly mistaken. The only way you are doing a massive amount of roll dodging is in medium armor, which is virtually a death sentence against good players running crazy strong builds. Frag, curse, execute will kill a medium armor stamblade outright. The Dawnbreaker is just for show. Try dueling a built out Sorc who is running Soul Assault on a Nightblade in medium. Can't cloak it, can't bash them out of it, can't CC them out of it. It's hilarious.

I think it is pretty obvious you haven't played a Nightblade for any length of time (if at all) so maybe you should save the lecturing for someone who plays a class you know something about. And just in case you were going to throw the whole 1v1 isn't a good test for a class line in there, I will tell you right now to save it. Duels are a HUGE part of this game and Battlegrounds are coming.

Of course, anyone that excels on something couldn't possible play it better than you, they must be an inexperienced pleb right?? How many of the top stamblades need to post on this forum advocating they're fine before you rumbling idiots stop crying?

Yes, there ARE better sets than damage sets for other stam classes. For example, any stamDK running any monster set other than bloodspawn is an absolute fool. None of the damage sets compete with having Dawnbreaker available every 15 seconds.

And since when are duels a HUUUGE part of this game?? No player worth their salt gives a damn about dueling. The game will NEVER be balanced around it, nor should it, it's a joke. And yes, medium armor running 23-25k health and 2300+ recovery is still the best open world setup that performs at an extremely high level, it just has an extremely high skill cap so most plebs think it's massively nerfed.

This whole conversation is case in point.

What top stamblades do you refer to? Every post you make is a broad sweeping generalization or out right lie to support your argument. No player who is worth their salt gives a damn about dueling? How do you know this? Or did you just fabricate another statistic? I suspect the later. Many people care about dueling and how the upcoming small scale battlegrounds will play out.

You give an example of a stamblade running 2300 recovery and state as a matter of fact that it is the best open world set up. Yet you don't play a stamblade and obviously know few who run competitive builds. This build is fun and hipster, right up until the second it gets soft and hard CC'd to hell and back, two shotted, and sent back to respawn. You say it has an extremely high skill cap? Your right, the weaker the class and build becomes, the higher the skill cap gets that is needed to play the class effectively. On that we agree.

Aedaryl

Killset wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

SneaK wrote: »

I'll admit it, I am triggered by all the people that don't know how to StamNB. I don't disagree with your suggestions on some of those skills as they aren't really used much, if at all. However I do disagree that Stamblades are bad outside of ganking.

Do you play with multiple characters? I do, and I can make any class look OP. I can wipe a small Zerg with my magsorc, and dueling with my magDK is stupid easy. You know what my issue is? I can be successful in every aspect with my stamblade, but it requires a ton more skill, and attention to do so; and the worst part is that it is less rewarding. It pisses me off that I can kill so many more people by myself with my magsorc than I can with my stamblade, and it requires less skill to do it.

If a certain class or play style has a higher skill cap, it better pay off when it comes to performance. But in this game it doesn't.

That needs to change. And I would rather see stamblades get stronger than get simpler because the reason why the stamblade is my favorite is because it requires me to pay attention more which makes me more engaged with the game.

This. This right here. My mDK hit a 19.1k take flight in a duel yesterday. It's a great day when I see 12k on an incap. Nearly everyone of my friends (and my friends are very good players and nasty duellers) have abandoned nightblade because the class has been decimated through direct and indirect nerfs.

When people say nightblades have the highest burst potential I laugh. It immediately tells me they are not 1v1ing high end players with high end builds. Period. A sorc can level you with 30k worth of damage in a second. And when you look at your health bar only count 80% of that because if you drop below 20% your dead.

Now let's talk about power of the light. I was getting hit with 8.6k PoL's in full Heavy. It's crashing into you every 6 seconds along with their damage monster set of choice and undodgeable jabs.

I don't even have the energy too talk about mDKs and pet sorcs. How they are even allowed to exist in this game in their current state blows my F' ing mind.

You are wrong about the NB, just put heavy armor and see how powerfull it is.

KingJ

Aedaryl wrote: »

Killset wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

SneaK wrote: »

I'll admit it, I am triggered by all the people that don't know how to StamNB. I don't disagree with your suggestions on some of those skills as they aren't really used much, if at all. However I do disagree that Stamblades are bad outside of ganking.

Do you play with multiple characters? I do, and I can make any class look OP. I can wipe a small Zerg with my magsorc, and dueling with my magDK is stupid easy. You know what my issue is? I can be successful in every aspect with my stamblade, but it requires a ton more skill, and attention to do so; and the worst part is that it is less rewarding. It pisses me off that I can kill so many more people by myself with my magsorc than I can with my stamblade, and it requires less skill to do it.

If a certain class or play style has a higher skill cap, it better pay off when it comes to performance. But in this game it doesn't.

That needs to change. And I would rather see stamblades get stronger than get simpler because the reason why the stamblade is my favorite is because it requires me to pay attention more which makes me more engaged with the game.

This. This right here. My mDK hit a 19.1k take flight in a duel yesterday. It's a great day when I see 12k on an incap. Nearly everyone of my friends (and my friends are very good players and nasty duellers) have abandoned nightblade because the class has been decimated through direct and indirect nerfs.

When people say nightblades have the highest burst potential I laugh. It immediately tells me they are not 1v1ing high end players with high end builds. Period. A sorc can level you with 30k worth of damage in a second. And when you look at your health bar only count 80% of that because if you drop below 20% your dead.

Now let's talk about power of the light. I was getting hit with 8.6k PoL's in full Heavy. It's crashing into you every 6 seconds along with their damage monster set of choice and undodgeable jabs.

I don't even have the energy too talk about mDKs and pet sorcs. How they are even allowed to exist in this game in their current state blows my F' ing mind.

You are wrong about the NB, just put heavy armor and see how powerful it is.

Yea but a stamplar,stam sorc,stamdk will still preform better than a stamnb in the majority of situations other than ganking.Even in Heavy they lack the defenses of other class fix cloak and maybe add back the purge and NB will be equal with the other classes.Majority of posters in this thread just want NB class in general magic and stamina NB to be point on par with the other classes.Magic NB needs a lot of help stamnb not so much but they still need some changes.

Nellzer

Killset wrote: »

Nellzer wrote: »

Killset wrote: »

Nellzer wrote: »

KingJ wrote: »

Obviously you don't play right if you did you know what's wrong with NB.If all you do is gank and run proc sets like a scrub I guess in your eyes it's ok.To people who actually know how to play the class and don't need their armor to kill people the class needs help.

I'm so very sick of people that claim NBs aren't viable and they refuse to run proc-sets because they think it's cheese.

First of all, stamblades are fine (magblades need help).

Second, proc-sets were practically designed for stamblades. They aren't NEARLY as effective on any other stamina build. DKs and stamplars have much better options and if you're running a proc-set you're gimping yourself.

No other class plays the hit and run, elusive playstyle like a stamblade where you single out opponents and rely on unrecoverable burst to win. And no, I'm not talking about ganking, I'm talking about utilizing LoS, massive amounts of roll-dodging and use of shade to constantly fight on your terms and score kills in 1vX situations.

TLDR; stamblades are fine, if you aren't using proc-sets you're doing it wrong. Now that proc-sets are nerfed it's a small part of your burst, but needed for the stamblade playstyle.

Quit crying and practice.

I am now convinced you have no idea what you are talking about. Proc sets aren't "NEARLY" as effective on other classes lol? Have you ever dueled a Tremorscale sword and board stam DK or stam sorc? What about a Selene Stamplar with Power of the Light firing off every 6 seconds? I have. You say DK's and Stamplars have much better options. Why is that? Is it because they have competitive damage with built in major mending?

Most Stamblades I know (myself included) have had to switch to Trollking just to survive the burst classes are able to produce. Meanwhile Stam Sorcs, Stam DK's, and Stamplars are able to keep running the damage monster sets because their healing is just fine. Sorcs are hitting so hard right now it's on a whole new level.

And if you think LOS and a "massive amount of roll dodging" is the answer you are sadly mistaken. The only way you are doing a massive amount of roll dodging is in medium armor, which is virtually a death sentence against good players running crazy strong builds. Frag, curse, execute will kill a medium armor stamblade outright. The Dawnbreaker is just for show. Try dueling a built out Sorc who is running Soul Assault on a Nightblade in medium. Can't cloak it, can't bash them out of it, can't CC them out of it. It's hilarious.

I think it is pretty obvious you haven't played a Nightblade for any length of time (if at all) so maybe you should save the lecturing for someone who plays a class you know something about. And just in case you were going to throw the whole 1v1 isn't a good test for a class line in there, I will tell you right now to save it. Duels are a HUGE part of this game and Battlegrounds are coming.

Of course, anyone that excels on something couldn't possible play it better than you, they must be an inexperienced pleb right?? How many of the top stamblades need to post on this forum advocating they're fine before you rumbling idiots stop crying?

Yes, there ARE better sets than damage sets for other stam classes. For example, any stamDK running any monster set other than bloodspawn is an absolute fool. None of the damage sets compete with having Dawnbreaker available every 15 seconds.

And since when are duels a HUUUGE part of this game?? No player worth their salt gives a damn about dueling. The game will NEVER be balanced around it, nor should it, it's a joke. And yes, medium armor running 23-25k health and 2300+ recovery is still the best open world setup that performs at an extremely high level, it just has an extremely high skill cap so most plebs think it's massively nerfed.

This whole conversation is case in point.

What top stamblades do you refer to? Every post you make is a broad sweeping generalization or out right lie to support your argument. No player who is worth their salt gives a damn about dueling? How do you know this? Or did you just fabricate another statistic? I suspect the later. Many people care about dueling and how the upcoming small scale battlegrounds will play out.

You give an example of a stamblade running 2300 recovery and state as a matter of fact that it is the best open world set up. Yet you don't play a stamblade and obviously know few who run competitive builds. This build is fun and hipster, right up until the second it gets soft and hard CC'd to hell and back, two shotted, and sent back to respawn. You say it has an extremely high skill cap? Your right, the weaker the class and build becomes, the higher the skill cap gets that is needed to play the class effectively. On that we agree.

Lol, are you still talking?

Go take a look at Hexys, Crescent, Kharapuce, Miruku, I mean the list can go on and on. All of whom run medium stamblade builds similar to what I mentioned. Stamblade has always been one of the higher skill-cap classes in the game, has nothing to do with current meta.

And what world are you living in where a stamblade gets CC'd? 2300 recovery means I can roll dodge infinitely, shuffle means I cannot be snared and if you hard cc me once I can break +roll/vigor and any damage you did to me in the .5 seconds during the cc is completely healed.

You claim I don't play stamblade but it's so obvious you either don't, or you're just very bad. Stamblades just aren't the demi-gods they have been for so long, you're probably just one of the many fotm'ers that picked it up while it was WAY op and now that it's brought inline you have no clue what to do. Sorry pal, maybe you should try stam sorc so you can faceroll your keyboard.

Killset

Aedaryl wrote: »

Killset wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

SneaK wrote: »

I'll admit it, I am triggered by all the people that don't know how to StamNB. I don't disagree with your suggestions on some of those skills as they aren't really used much, if at all. However I do disagree that Stamblades are bad outside of ganking.

Do you play with multiple characters? I do, and I can make any class look OP. I can wipe a small Zerg with my magsorc, and dueling with my magDK is stupid easy. You know what my issue is? I can be successful in every aspect with my stamblade, but it requires a ton more skill, and attention to do so; and the worst part is that it is less rewarding. It pisses me off that I can kill so many more people by myself with my magsorc than I can with my stamblade, and it requires less skill to do it.

If a certain class or play style has a higher skill cap, it better pay off when it comes to performance. But in this game it doesn't.

That needs to change. And I would rather see stamblades get stronger than get simpler because the reason why the stamblade is my favorite is because it requires me to pay attention more which makes me more engaged with the game.

This. This right here. My mDK hit a 19.1k take flight in a duel yesterday. It's a great day when I see 12k on an incap. Nearly everyone of my friends (and my friends are very good players and nasty duellers) have abandoned nightblade because the class has been decimated through direct and indirect nerfs.

When people say nightblades have the highest burst potential I laugh. It immediately tells me they are not 1v1ing high end players with high end builds. Period. A sorc can level you with 30k worth of damage in a second. And when you look at your health bar only count 80% of that because if you drop below 20% your dead.

Now let's talk about power of the light. I was getting hit with 8.6k PoL's in full Heavy. It's crashing into you every 6 seconds along with their damage monster set of choice and undodgeable jabs.

I don't even have the energy too talk about mDKs and pet sorcs. How they are even allowed to exist in this game in their current state blows my F' ing mind.

You are wrong about the NB, just put heavy armor and see how powerfull it is.

I agree Heavy is way better. That's my point. Damage is so high NB's are forced to run Heavy. And Heavy doesn't do anything more for NB's than it does for any other class.

Kidz_BeAstx

@BohnT I play heavy armor stamina nightblade and I'm beginning to hate it because I feel like a wannabe stamdk, big and bulky, way too much tankiness. I use sword and board/2h for dps, Wrobels revenge basically. I'm about to just get vampirism again and just play in stealth with that new build that Speez just uploaded which is 5 Viper, 2 Selene's, and 5 Spriggon's. All I need is the viper 1h axe and I'll be good to go.

Other than what you're complaining about, just wear heavy armor and use proc sets. Yes I am encouraging you to use cancer because that's just the way things are now, you have no choice in what you want to use.

Edit: The only reason that I want to go back to medium is because there are 30 man groups everywhere in Cyrodiil and I'd rather prefer to be in and out, rather than be forced to get zerged down. In a 1v1 though, I cannot lose. Mainly because I'm using every cancerous thing possible such as poisons, proc sets, heavy armor, rearming traps, and immovable pots. I have my own proc based build but I really want Spriggons because of how difficult it is trying to gank heavy armor users.

Hexys

Stamblade is totally fine the way it is, the only thing they could do is fix cloak.

Kidz_BeAstx

@BohnT Stop wearing medium armor. Enough said.

joe.smith21b14_ESO

But medium is so good though

Takuto

The problem with rouge classes is always the same. If you give a class invisibility -- the ability to reset a fight against opponents to their own advantage on-demand, then what is implied is that the class shouldn't be able to kill anyone when they aren't at that advantage. Further, the class, despite being overall weaker and under-performing compared to other classes will be regarded by those who aren't playing that class as having an unfair advantage.

In other words, the ability to cloak is what holds this class back balance-wise, just like it holds back rouge classes in other games.

Want to balance it out? Give another morph of cloak which instead of granting invisibility grants a stupidly strong buff -- it honestly doesn't matter what -- something like snare immunity + major mending + minor life steal for 20 seconds. This removes the idea that a night-blade must run and hide and wait for the right time -- and if ever caught off guard should die pitifully.

Lokey0024

Killset wrote: »

Aedaryl wrote: »

Killset wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

SneaK wrote: »

I'll admit it, I am triggered by all the people that don't know how to StamNB. I don't disagree with your suggestions on some of those skills as they aren't really used much, if at all. However I do disagree that Stamblades are bad outside of ganking.

Do you play with multiple characters? I do, and I can make any class look OP. I can wipe a small Zerg with my magsorc, and dueling with my magDK is stupid easy. You know what my issue is? I can be successful in every aspect with my stamblade, but it requires a ton more skill, and attention to do so; and the worst part is that it is less rewarding. It pisses me off that I can kill so many more people by myself with my magsorc than I can with my stamblade, and it requires less skill to do it.

If a certain class or play style has a higher skill cap, it better pay off when it comes to performance. But in this game it doesn't.

That needs to change. And I would rather see stamblades get stronger than get simpler because the reason why the stamblade is my favorite is because it requires me to pay attention more which makes me more engaged with the game.

This. This right here. My mDK hit a 19.1k take flight in a duel yesterday. It's a great day when I see 12k on an incap. Nearly everyone of my friends (and my friends are very good players and nasty duellers) have abandoned nightblade because the class has been decimated through direct and indirect nerfs.

When people say nightblades have the highest burst potential I laugh. It immediately tells me they are not 1v1ing high end players with high end builds. Period. A sorc can level you with 30k worth of damage in a second. And when you look at your health bar only count 80% of that because if you drop below 20% your dead.

Now let's talk about power of the light. I was getting hit with 8.6k PoL's in full Heavy. It's crashing into you every 6 seconds along with their damage monster set of choice and undodgeable jabs.

I don't even have the energy too talk about mDKs and pet sorcs. How they are even allowed to exist in this game in their current state blows my F' ing mind.

You are wrong about the NB, just put heavy armor and see how powerfull it is.

I agree Heavy is way better. That's my point. Damage is so high NB's are forced to run Heavy. And Heavy doesn't do anything more for NB's than it does for any other class.

Troll king heavy armor and 15% NB health regen.

I ran a heavy ogrims/spriggans and rolled with a group. Was basically unkillable. Didnt hit stupid hard so had to figure out how to dish out more dmg in the build.

Then tried fasalas and was even better.

You been spoonfed a little. Wipe your chin and go figure out how to make stuff work

Cathexis

For a long while I was feeling this way, but I unlocked the current stam situation. That said, if my understanding of the current pvp situation is correct, it makes sense you would be balanced for 1vX/Ganks.

Also, while my experience playing nightblades is limited at best, in terms of the math, you guys have the widest array of options of styles of any class as I can see it. Nightblades are far from useless.

Narvuntien

I want the always crit of cloak to last a longer time after cloak so I can use it just like a buff. With high latency I basically can't crit in time and the threat range in PVP is so high and mobility high. I can't cloak at a resonable distance and expect to be able to be in range to use an ability.

*click* I wish to crit now.

The nerf to the proc set crit hurt stamblades the most, since they will always crit. I hated getting 1 shot by them so the nerf was needed but it also hurt my class.

Stamblades best survivibilty tools (other than shuffle and vigor that everyone has access to) are all magicka based this is an issue, with wanting to cloak all the time as part of your damage also Magicka.

Mass hysteria, the shade swaping ability, Blur and other CC or evasive abilities all Magicka. Stamblades need to be able to access these without having huge magicka issues. Going hybrid is not an option for a damage class. The magikca costs for these abilities should be reduced. Or make stam morphs?

Also the class needs a Shuffle style CC break as part of thier class abilities, this is consistant with a slippery hit and run rogue class play style on top of that I'd also like passive bonuses for roll dodging again rogue class evasive skills should be part of thier Identitiy.

The best targets for adding something like "when you roll dodge your next attack will crit" are Double take and Relentless focus. Just make double take = shuffle and it is already 100 times better even if it is a copy.. add you have CC immunity for 4 seconds as well as the movement speed bonus now you have a slottable ability.

If everyone has gone heavy armor you have balance issues bigger than a single class.

FloppyTouch

Anyone else rolling there eyes hard at the people saying Stamblade has the highest skill cap or is that just me?
I made a Stamblade and never killed other players so easily without even thinking.

thankyourat

FloppyTouch wrote: »

Anyone else rolling there eyes hard at the people saying Stamblade has the highest skill cap or is that just me?
I made a Stamblade and never killed other players so easily without even thinking.

I think what makes stamblade hard is not being killed. It's like the complete opposite of a dk where you may find it harder to kill players, but they are having a hard time killing you as well. I think what makes stamblade "bad" is that it's easier for other classes to build for burst than it is for stamblades to build for survivability. So when a stamblade fights another good player they can easily match you're burst or atleast get really close to it. While at the same time you have to pretty much not make any mistakes or you are dead. So while I don't really think stamblade is bad it does require alot more skill than alot of the other classes

Knootewoot

Hexys wrote: »

Stamblade is totally fine the way it is, the only thing they could do is fix cloak.

I switched 2 weeks ago from light armored melee magblade to medium armor melee stamblade (no proc sets)

The tools are the same, the difference in burst and survivability skyrocketed for me as stamblade. I will switch back to magblade next week, just wanted a taste of one-two shots. It was fun but now back to magblade.

I think stamblade is fine. I do wish cloak was a bit better since my magblade relies on it heavily. I know, I could adapt wear HA and use mistform like everybody else. But I like diversity in builds.

I might even try a hybrid build first.

Brrrofski

Honestly, if you think stamblades are bad open world or group play, sorry, but that's on you.

Stamblade is one of the top dogs in PvP for any situation.

You want to give it major mending and brutality built into the class? Are you trolling?

The main problem with this game is that people seem to play one class and stay loyal to it, constantly asking for buffs and not seeing just how strong their class is.

Go play a magica NB and come tell me stamblade isn't viable...

I hate this heavy armour meta. It's boring. But I do like how it exposed bad stamblades who don't know what to do when they can't one shot people anymore. When they actually have to fight someone who fights back. Learn how to survive themselves for once.

BohnT

I give up on this thread.
I made countless arguments why stamnb is inferior in relation to other classes and all counter arguments are stupid statements with out any evidence to why they are right.
Or I hear the stupid L2P which is bullsh** I play this class since beta and definitely know how to play there are just so many encouters and situations where any other class is superior.
I won't list the arguments for that again as I think most people didn't read the full thread

Joy_Division

BohnT wrote: »

I give up on this thread.
I made countless arguments why stamnb is inferior in relation to other classes and all counter arguments are stupid statements with out any evidence to why they are right.
Or I hear the stupid L2P which is bullsh** I play this class since beta and definitely know how to play there are just so many encouters and situations where any other class is superior.
I won't list the arguments for that again as I think most people didn't read the full thread

If people don;t accept your arguments that doesn't mean they are dumb or aren't listening.

Like many people in this thread, I didn;t find your arguments very persuasive either.

Stamina nightblades have no reliable self heals all class heals are based on killing your target ---> completely trash in PvP unless you gank.

.

Disingenuous because stam NBs have easy access to two of the best heals in the game: Rally and vigor. Stam NBs that use those skills can pull just as muck healing output in a fight as a Templar. Now you want to give them an additional free HoT in minor lifesteal?

Stamnb has no good skill to get access to major brutality unless you use momentum or the crappy power extraction.

It's not "missing" on the NB. It's there. On a skill you don't want to use. If you don;t want to use it, you an get it from Rally which also gives you a good heal. It's templars that are "missing" that skill. You're solution is to make Surprise attack, an already good spammable, to give Shadow Ward and Major Brutality?

And you want stam NBs to have major mending? You don;t want stam NBs to be competitive. You want them to have every and easy access to the most powerfull buffs in the game so they dominate the other classes.

NBs are no exception in they have poor skills and are locked into one playstyle. Each class only has 15 skills and only half on them are decent for PvP. Sorcs are shield stackers. Templars are heavy armor block BoL. DKs are one-hand shield fossilize+whips.

NBs aren't as good as the other classes DPS wise because they designed to be the "gank" class in ESO. I understand the frustration some NBs have in that they are not invited to PvE DPS because of that. But if the best "gank" class stood no disadvantage in a face-to-face "fair" fight, then that would be totally busted. It's hard for me to take at face value the complaints stam NBs make on these forums that their class in not competitive when every night I see players like Miat and Dururthy excel. Neither one of them are "gankers" per se and take on and defeat multiple opponents at a time.

FlyLionel

People complaining about cloak? There are pots/aoe/radiant light and a whole other bunch of things to counter cloak lol... anyways they nerf incap and thats our patch. Make cloak purge like before(buffing mag dk? We need something here) and actually fix cloak so that works. If a mag sorc can hit one button and get a 20k+ shield that you cannot crit, I better be able to hit one button and go invisible..unless they are good players and know how to counter cloak. That is all, or maybe take incap cc out and put it back to its super low cost...=))) (Yes we are the weakest class right now combining pve/pvp together; we are decent at best).

TheBonesXXX

I wouldn't mind the coefficients on the swallow soul heal, the % on siphon weapons increased to like %6 and cloak fixed.

I wasn't a fan of the conceal weapon damage nerf, it actually used to hit hard. Now its just a stun people break or dodge, its trivial compared to what it used to be.

FlyLionel

TheBonesXXX wrote: »

I wouldn't mind the coefficients on the swallow soul heal, the % on siphon weapons increased to like %6 and cloak fixed.

I wasn't a fan of the conceal weapon damage nerf, it actually used to hit hard. Now its just a stun people break or dodge, its trivial compared to what it used to be.

They nerfed conceal specifically? Or surprise attack (the entire ability?)

Sarru

Dmg in PvP should be reworked in this game, cause its extremely high + proc sets + animation cancelling+poisons+potions. And gankers (most are NBs) use these and they are the reason ppl go heavy armor in other case you just won't survive. I tried to switch from heavy to medium on my StamDK and I died often....very often just in 2 sec, most time I even couldn't react and was just reading recap.
StamNBs are fine but with proc sets and other stuff they are OP (especially at noCP).
I've played WoW a lot and I don't remember any class there that killed you in 2 sec (even rogues couldn't do that, they could kill fast but you always had a chance to survive and fight).

BohnT

Joy_Division wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

I give up on this thread.
I made countless arguments why stamnb is inferior in relation to other classes and all counter arguments are stupid statements with out any evidence to why they are right.
Or I hear the stupid L2P which is bullsh** I play this class since beta and definitely know how to play there are just so many encouters and situations where any other class is superior.
I won't list the arguments for that again as I think most people didn't read the full thread

If people don;t accept your arguments that doesn't mean they are dumb or aren't listening.

Like many people in this thread, I didn;t find your arguments very persuasive either.

Stamina nightblades have no reliable self heals all class heals are based on killing your target ---> completely trash in PvP unless you gank.

.

Disingenuous because stam NBs have easy access to two of the best heals in the game: Rally and vigor. Stam NBs that use those skills can pull just as muck healing output in a fight as a Templar. Now you want to give them an additional free HoT in minor lifesteal?

Stamnb has no good skill to get access to major brutality unless you use momentum or the crappy power extraction.

It's not "missing" on the NB. It's there. On a skill you don't want to use. If you don;t want to use it, you an get it from Rally which also gives you a good heal. It's templars that are "missing" that skill. You're solution is to make Surprise attack, an already good spammable, to give Shadow Ward and Major Brutality?

And you want stam NBs to have major mending? You don;t want stam NBs to be competitive. You want them to have every and easy access to the most powerfull buffs in the game so they dominate the other classes.

NBs are no exception in they have poor skills and are locked into one playstyle. Each class only has 15 skills and only half on them are decent for PvP. Sorcs are shield stackers. Templars are heavy armor block BoL. DKs are one-hand shield fossilize+whips.

NBs aren't as good as the other classes DPS wise because they designed to be the "gank" class in ESO. I understand the frustration some NBs have in that they are not invited to PvE DPS because of that. But if the best "gank" class stood no disadvantage in a face-to-face "fair" fight, then that would be totally busted. It's hard for me to take at face value the complaints stam NBs make on these forums that their class in not competitive when every night I see players like Miat and Dururthy excel. Neither one of them are "gankers" per se and take on and defeat multiple opponents at a time.

The same healing output as a templar. Are you kidding me? I can hit 15k heals on my BoL in cyro every second gl getting the same results with momentum and vigor. I started this thread with the statement that I want the ganking part of nbs to be nerfed and make them better in direct fights but I guess you didn't read that no problem.
I could use power extraction to gain major brutality but why would I waste a skill slot for an AoE that is outclassed by any other aoe.

Saying that I have easy access to 2 good heals is partially true but any other stam class has the same two heals and more.
I don't want stamnb to be dominating and the changes I proposed won't make them Fotm as the other classes are so strong that it will only bring them on par with them.

Nellzer

BohnT wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

I give up on this thread.
I made countless arguments why stamnb is inferior in relation to other classes and all counter arguments are stupid statements with out any evidence to why they are right.
Or I hear the stupid L2P which is bullsh** I play this class since beta and definitely know how to play there are just so many encouters and situations where any other class is superior.
I won't list the arguments for that again as I think most people didn't read the full thread

If people don;t accept your arguments that doesn't mean they are dumb or aren't listening.

Like many people in this thread, I didn;t find your arguments very persuasive either.

Stamina nightblades have no reliable self heals all class heals are based on killing your target ---> completely trash in PvP unless you gank.

.

Disingenuous because stam NBs have easy access to two of the best heals in the game: Rally and vigor. Stam NBs that use those skills can pull just as muck healing output in a fight as a Templar. Now you want to give them an additional free HoT in minor lifesteal?

Stamnb has no good skill to get access to major brutality unless you use momentum or the crappy power extraction.

It's not "missing" on the NB. It's there. On a skill you don't want to use. If you don;t want to use it, you an get it from Rally which also gives you a good heal. It's templars that are "missing" that skill. You're solution is to make Surprise attack, an already good spammable, to give Shadow Ward and Major Brutality?

And you want stam NBs to have major mending? You don;t want stam NBs to be competitive. You want them to have every and easy access to the most powerfull buffs in the game so they dominate the other classes.

NBs are no exception in they have poor skills and are locked into one playstyle. Each class only has 15 skills and only half on them are decent for PvP. Sorcs are shield stackers. Templars are heavy armor block BoL. DKs are one-hand shield fossilize+whips.

NBs aren't as good as the other classes DPS wise because they designed to be the "gank" class in ESO. I understand the frustration some NBs have in that they are not invited to PvE DPS because of that. But if the best "gank" class stood no disadvantage in a face-to-face "fair" fight, then that would be totally busted. It's hard for me to take at face value the complaints stam NBs make on these forums that their class in not competitive when every night I see players like Miat and Dururthy excel. Neither one of them are "gankers" per se and take on and defeat multiple opponents at a time.

The same healing output as a templar. Are you kidding me? I can hit 15k heals on my BoL in cyro every second gl getting the same results with momentum and vigor. I started this thread with the statement that I want the ganking part of nbs to be nerfed and make them better in direct fights but I guess you didn't read that no problem.
I could use power extraction to gain major brutality but why would I waste a skill slot for an AoE that is outclassed by any other aoe.

Saying that I have easy access to 2 good heals is partially true but any other stam class has the same two heals and more.
I don't want stamnb to be dominating and the changes I proposed won't make them Fotm as the other classes are so strong that it will only bring them on par with them.

Why in the world do you think stamblades deserve an additional heal? Stamplar is the only other stam class that utilizes heals outside of vigor+rally. Nightblades have infinitely more damage avoidance than any other stam class, we don't need another heal. In fact, even if we had one, it would be a waste of a skill slot. What do you drop? Shuffle, shadow, cloak, poison injection? None of those would be worth dropping for another heal. And both vigor and rally are very reliable self heals, so your argument is crap from the start.

Missing buffs? If you aren't using Rally, you're doing it wrong. If you want to be competitive at the highest level in PvP, you have to use cookie cutter builds that are min-maxed for it. This has been true since the beginning of gaming in every single game ever made. Use Rally or stop complaining.

I'm sorry if hearing it's a L2P issue is frustrating for you. You have countless examples in this thread from top-tier stamblades telling you they're fine. If you think otherwise, there is no other explanation other than you need to change your build, playstyle, etc. or simply improve your gameplay.

And if you aren't running proc sets on a stamblade because you think it's cheese, then you're doing it wrong. Proc sets were practically invented for stamblades they align with the class so much. Did you play WoW? Do you remember mace stun in S2/3? Do you think warriors/rogues going to MLG opted out of using maces because they thought a random stun every x seconds was cheese (it was)?? No, every single warrior rogue playing the game competitively used maces and abused mace stun.

If you don't want to use proc sets, that's fine, just don't come crying when you're not able to compete in PvP. You had better believe every top player is going to abuse every OP aspect of the game for every advantage, because that's what top players do. Jump on the train or figure out a different way to have fun.