The needed changes for stam Nightblades to make them viable again.

Runschei

Dorrino wrote: »

"Mirage, agony, debilitate and for a lesser extent mark target"

All these skills, being niche are nevertheless used both in pvp (agony, mark target) and pve (mirage, debilitate).

Main problem with stam nb, as you noticed, is survivability.

Giving them major mending will turn them into dks without tankiness of the later.


All 'fixes' to stam nightblades in pvp can be summarized in one sentence 'fix cloak':)

So, the simplest solution would be to let cloak purge dots again (including curses and backlashes) and add increased mag cost with each application (like streaks and dodges).

This will do multiple things:

1. Buff both stam and mag nb in pvp against any other class.

2. Will finally get rid of perma cloaking with magicka nbs.

3. Will allow cloak to be a powerful defensive tool even if it will break instantly.


Additionally i'd add a 0.2-0.3 sec damage immunity on cloak activation to finally get rid of cloak insta breaking if any other ability landed on the nb at the very same time as he casted cloak.

In my mind these changes alone will be enough to make nbs on par with other classes in pvp.

Since cloak lasts for 2.8 seconds, how long will you have to wait to avoid the 50% extra cost? Equal to streak?

Edit:
Ball of lightning lasts for 0.3 seconds with 4 seconds 'waiting' and absorbs spell projectiles for 5 seconds, would any of this be included in cloak?

SneaK

Runschei wrote: »

Dorrino wrote: »

"Mirage, agony, debilitate and for a lesser extent mark target"

All these skills, being niche are nevertheless used both in pvp (agony, mark target) and pve (mirage, debilitate).

Main problem with stam nb, as you noticed, is survivability.

Giving them major mending will turn them into dks without tankiness of the later.


All 'fixes' to stam nightblades in pvp can be summarized in one sentence 'fix cloak':)

So, the simplest solution would be to let cloak purge dots again (including curses and backlashes) and add increased mag cost with each application (like streaks and dodges).

This will do multiple things:

1. Buff both stam and mag nb in pvp against any other class.

2. Will finally get rid of perma cloaking with magicka nbs.

3. Will allow cloak to be a powerful defensive tool even if it will break instantly.


Additionally i'd add a 0.2-0.3 sec damage immunity on cloak activation to finally get rid of cloak insta breaking if any other ability landed on the nb at the very same time as he casted cloak.

In my mind these changes alone will be enough to make nbs on par with other classes in pvp.

Since cloak lasts for 2.8 seconds, how long will you have to wait to avoid the 50% extra cost? Equal to streak?

STAHP

BoxFoxx

BohnT wrote: »

Up front: This postfocuses on changes that reduce the ganking potential of nightblades and making them viable in small-scale, 1vX and larger groups as they are pretty bad outside of ganking.

The current problems:
- bad survivability
- missing buffs
- useless skills
- locked to specific builds

1. Bad survivability:
Stamina nightblades have no reliable self heals all class heals are based on killing your target ---> completely trash in PvP unless you gank.
The main defensive ability cloak is broken and often doesn't reliably protects you or is hard countered by other classes e.g. hurricane, talons, curse, vampires bane etc.

Potential solve: give mark target major lifesteal as a debuff resulting in a reliable heal for nightblades anytime they deal damage.
Fix cloak to be more reliable, maybe add a small shield that prevents weak aoes to reveal you with the first impact

2. Missing Buffs
Stamnb has no good skill to get access to major brutality unless you use momentum or the crappy power extraction.
This could be added to surprise attack and in return get rid of that stupid ganking stun for 9.2 seconds with the passives
Stamnb doesn't have access to major mending aswell this could be added to agony, make one morph deal disease damage and the other remains to deal magic damage.

3. Useless skills
Mirage, agony, debilitate andfor a lesser extent mark target
I already provided proposes for agony and mark target.
change debilitate to a stam dot that deals disease damage and restores stamina once the enemy dies
mirage could be revamped to a reverse sun shield , you cast the ball around you and it absorbs 10% of the incoming damage and heals you for that amount. Or give mirage major brutality and major sorcery with 1 stamina and 1 magicka morph
Some passives need to be addressed master assasin is just a stupid gank buff, change it to 8% magic/wep dmg all the time
Give executioner the same buff for stamina as it now has for magicka
Same thing goes for magicka flood

4 locked to one playstyle
Ja you combine every problem I mentioned above you come to the result that stamnb is pushed towards ganking and needs 2h for the extra healing so most nightblades have exactly the same build 2h+ monster set+ medium armor and then gank them all.
This could be changed imo with the adjustments I mentioned above + reduce the stealth multiplier to 100% extra damage that is still a lot but it would make ganking ineffective unless you find 3 others to help you

Please tell me your thoughts and be constructive

Also making Path of Darkness a cast on self ability instead of ground, kinda similar to the sorc's Lighting Form. To compensate for the upgrade it can be made to grant minor expedition instead of major expedition. Perhaps instead of surrounding the player like Lighting Form it could leave a trail behind the player. Would be a cool tactic when running circles around an enemy. Would also help with healing with the morph by not being committed to the path area for the heals.

Chair

Xvorg wrote: »

Chair wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

So not only do Nightblades need a buff, but they need a massive buff at that.

Your opinions are worthless against the data.

In pve yes but that is it stamblade is perfectly fine ATM in PVP anyone who says it is under powerd please L2P the class before you cry on the forums about our class being bad k ty

And that assupmtion is based on your own experience right?

Well the OP is a guy form EU PC Who gets 1vxd daily but hey. And what assumption? :P

BohnT

Chair wrote: »

Xvorg wrote: »

Chair wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

So not only do Nightblades need a buff, but they need a massive buff at that.

Your opinions are worthless against the data.

In pve yes but that is it stamblade is perfectly fine ATM in PVP anyone who says it is under powerd please L2P the class before you cry on the forums about our class being bad k ty

And that assupmtion is based on your own experience right?

Well the OP is a guy form EU PC Who gets 1vxd daily but hey. And what assumption? :P

Uhh someone is butthurt. Either the "best" Stamnb in the game which dies in duels to eternal hunt against a "no-name nightblade" and plays every other class to prove that stamnb is fine. Or some other stamnb which focus you 2v1 saying you are a Zergling when other players from my alliance show up and I just want to get them killed because
"oh I fight against them but now some other people arrived I should stop immediately because that would make me a bad nb even though they gank me with 1-3 ppl to prove that I'm bad"

Really love how this thread got me on some kill lists

Chair

BohnT wrote: »

Chair wrote: »

Xvorg wrote: »

Chair wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

So not only do Nightblades need a buff, but they need a massive buff at that.

Your opinions are worthless against the data.

In pve yes but that is it stamblade is perfectly fine ATM in PVP anyone who says it is under powerd please L2P the class before you cry on the forums about our class being bad k ty

And that assupmtion is based on your own experience right?

Well the OP is a guy form EU PC Who gets 1vxd daily but hey. And what assumption? :P

Uhh someone is butthurt. Either the "best" Stamnb in the game which dies in duels to eternal hunt against a "no-name nightblade" and plays every other class to prove that stamnb is fine. Or some other stamnb which focus you 2v1 saying you are a Zergling when other players from my alliance show up and I just want to get them killed because
"oh I fight against them but now some other people arrived I should stop immediately because that would make me a bad nb even though they gank me with 1-3 ppl to prove that I'm bad"

Really love how this thread got me on some kill lists

Lolololol I played my stamblade for a year and ive been AVA 50 on her for around 5 weeks now and because i have intention to get zerged and give achieves to try hard zerglings but its ok Bohn

FearlessOne_2014

Torbschka wrote: »

That thread, stam NB are fine - just adapt your build to minimize the disadvantages. I 1vx like crazy with my stamblade, as I do with almost any other class.

That saying, stam NB has all the tools needed for great solo 1vX gameplay ( I dont talk about ganking) - in the hands of a skilled player.

Dont buff stam NB, will make them fotm again, they are fine.

I highly agree. We all remember when Stamblade was nearly easy I win mode. Nah don't want that again. They fine just learn to adapt like all of the other players playing other class did.

FearlessOne_2014

Killset wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

SneaK wrote: »

I'll admit it, I am triggered by all the people that don't know how to StamNB. I don't disagree with your suggestions on some of those skills as they aren't really used much, if at all. However I do disagree that Stamblades are bad outside of ganking.

Do you play with multiple characters? I do, and I can make any class look OP. I can wipe a small Zerg with my magsorc, and dueling with my magDK is stupid easy. You know what my issue is? I can be successful in every aspect with my stamblade, but it requires a ton more skill, and attention to do so; and the worst part is that it is less rewarding. It pisses me off that I can kill so many more people by myself with my magsorc than I can with my stamblade, and it requires less skill to do it.

If a certain class or play style has a higher skill cap, it better pay off when it comes to performance. But in this game it doesn't.

That needs to change. And I would rather see stamblades get stronger than get simpler because the reason why the stamblade is my favorite is because it requires me to pay attention more which makes me more engaged with the game.

This. This right here. My mDK hit a 19.1k take flight in a duel yesterday. It's a great day when I see 12k on an incap. Nearly everyone of my friends (and my friends are very good players and nasty duellers) have abandoned nightblade because the class has been decimated through direct and indirect nerfs.

When people say nightblades have the highest burst potential I laugh. It immediately tells me they are not 1v1ing high end players with high end builds. Period. A sorc can level you with 30k worth of damage in a second. And when you look at your health bar only count 80% of that because if you drop below 20% your dead.

Now let's talk about power of the light. I was getting hit with 8.6k PoL's in full Heavy. It's crashing into you every 6 seconds along with their damage monster set of choice and undodgeable jabs.

I don't even have the energy too talk about mDKs and pet sorcs. How they are even allowed to exist in this game in their current state blows my F' ing mind.

What's wrong with pet sorcs?

technohic

Last night was my first "1vx" attempt on my stamblade. I use quotes because it wasn't like I was trying to be one of the streamers and was circling a tree while fighting multiple guys; I'm not that good. It was more of "Theres a zerg and there is one of me, let me pick off one, then escape, then pick off another, then escape again."

I got to 15 before I got killed but that wasn't the zerg, it was some other small groupers I ran into on my way out fighting some of my factions small groupers. They threw caltrops on me and knew what they were doing not letting me get away rather than spam RD still even after the damage nerf and after cloak now seems to get you out of it. Does that count as 1vx? Doesn't matter I suppose. It let me play when the odds were not in my favor and thats why I have the NB to begin with.

BoxFoxx

Make incapacitating strikes bypass resistances like onslaught.

Ragnaroek93

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

So not only do Nightblades need a buff, but they need a massive buff at that.

Your opinions are worthless against the data.

Pve. Very conclusive data this one thinks.

Then how would you determine the state of Nightblades in PvP empirically? Dueling tournaments? Nope, they're not competitive there. Contribution to group PvP? Nope, not desirable there. 1vXing videos? You can find plenty for every class.

Or should we judge it based on leaderboards in Cyrodiil? Nightblades are just as poor in standing there as they are in trials.

Pretty sure that I'm able to win a dueling tournament on a stamina nightblade with a bit luck of course (actually stamblades did win tourneys on PC - EU at least). I don't see any way how I could die to anything other than other nbs or petsorcs because nothing else has the damage to do so in this glorious meta there everyone can tank 3+ people (everyone on EU - Pc can feel free to duel me with any class he/she wants to proof me how weak stamblade is ).

If cloak would actually work correctly the skill would be ridiculous OP and would need a nerf. I love to see all the complaining from nightblade players who ignore the fact that a working cloak would be insanely broken. A nightblade who specced a bit into magregen is almost unkillable without mark target or if you bug the cloak several times in a row.

I'm 99% sure that the people in here who demand buffs for nightblade don't want stamina nightblade to be overpowered or being fotm but I'm pretty sure that exactly this would happen if you buff stamina nb. My mainchar is a stamblade and I love playing her since release and I have no interest at all that the class would become overpowered and fotm and I'm pretty sure that other nightblade players don't want that too.

BoxFoxx wrote: »

Make incapacitating strikes bypass resistances like onslaught.

Please not. And don't make it ignoring dodge too. Otherwise in nightblade vs nightblade the one who stacks more dmg and has the first incap crit would win.

Jynxe

Just my 2 cents, I would start playing my NB again if they would fix cloak so it won't break so easy.

KingJ

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

So not only do Nightblades need a buff, but they need a massive buff at that.

Your opinions are worthless against the data.

Pve. Very conclusive data this one thinks.

Then how would you determine the state of Nightblades in PvP empirically? Dueling tournaments? Nope, they're not competitive there. Contribution to group PvP? Nope, not desirable there. 1vXing videos? You can find plenty for every class.

Or should we judge it based on leaderboards in Cyrodiil? Nightblades are just as poor in standing there as they are in trials.

Pretty sure that I'm able to win a dueling tournament on a stamina nightblade with a bit luck of course (actually stamblades did win tourneys on PC - EU at least). I don't see any way how I could die to anything other than other nbs or petsorcs because nothing else has the damage to do so in this glorious meta there everyone can tank 3+ people (everyone on EU - Pc can feel free to duel me with any class he/she wants to proof me how weak stamblade is ).

If cloak would actually work correctly the skill would be ridiculous OP and would need a nerf. I love to see all the complaining from nightblade players who ignore the fact that a working cloak would be insanely broken. A nightblade who specced a bit into magregen is almost unkillable without mark target or if you bug the cloak several times in a row.

I'm 99% sure that the people in here who demand buffs for nightblade don't want stamina nightblade to be overpowered or being fotm but I'm pretty sure that exactly this would happen if you buff stamina nb. My mainchar is a stamblade and I love playing her since release and I have no interest at all that the class would become overpowered and fotm and I'm pretty sure that other nightblade players don't want that too.

BoxFoxx wrote: »

Make incapacitating strikes bypass resistances like onslaught.

Please not. And don't make it ignoring dodge too. Otherwise in nightblade vs nightblade the one who stacks more dmg and has the first incap crit would win.

@Ragnaroek93 do you know when was the last time a StamNB won a dueling tournament on EU?You said they did but I haven't heard someone winning since 1.6.On Xbox a NB haven't won a tournament since release an imperial city. Most of the top stamblades just run another class for tournament mainly sorcs.

I disagree with you that a working cloak is op especially with how many counters that are currently available. The skill would only be over powered against players who don't know the counters of refuse to run a counter.

Fr fr all I want is a slight buff to our healing especially with them removing crit heals from cp NB going to have even worst healing compared to other classes. I do not want a burst heal al least minor mending or something if they are not planning to make cloak more reliable.

Glamdring

NBs winning duel tournaments?!?! Give me what u smoking pls.

BohnT

Glamdring wrote: »

NBs winning duel tournaments?!?! Give me what u smoking pls.

He has the skills to win a tournament but it really depends on the ppl who take part.
They good magdks and sorcs aswell as the stamsorcs will decide if he can win or not.
But I can't think of any class that player needs to be significantly better to win a 1v1 in the current meta.

Vizier

Dorrino wrote: »

Solariken wrote: »

I like the suggestions from @Dorrino about sorting out Cloak once and for all. Let it purge everything and be completely unbreakable (except for reveal mechanics like Magelight), but give it a scaling cost penalty of +50% for 4 seconds to mirror Streak. As a trade-off for being unbreakable, the NB should take X% additional damage from AoE attacks and or receive X% less healing while Cloaked. .

Actually i'd disagree with cloak being fully unbreakable. This would make nbs too strong even taking into account the drawbacks you described.

It feels like we need it not to break on application, thus my proposed 0.2-0.3 sec full immunity.

If the cloak will have purge utility embedded into it that would be fine if it breaks in 0.5 sec.

Even more, this mechanics will move nightblades from invisible glass cannon gameplay paradigm to a bit squishy class with purge and hide on demand.

Cost increase might be +25% on application. This would allow stamblades to do 2-3 cloaks in a row and magblades ~5-6.

The only things that should be breaking cloak are those skills designed to reveal cloaked/stealthed characters. eg. Magelight, Flare, etc. to include negate. Players in cloak should still take damage from AoE effects, but remain invisible, while targeting for other attacks should be perma-dodge/miss. AND they shouldn't be revealed for casting other spells or dodge rolling.

If someone heals does it stop healing because they are taking damage? Do buffs suddenly stop working because damage is taken, another spell is cast or you dodge rolled? How many spells stop working for a mage when they streak? ....just saying.
What skills in any other class just stop working when damage is taken? The Magicka to cloak has already been spent. It's a massive cost AND it only last for 2.9 seconds.

olsborg

Sarru wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

glavius wrote: »

Stam nbs are fine in pvp

Please share why they are fine. A simple statement doesn't contribute anything to the discussion.

Maybe couse they have high burst dmg, which with poisons and proc sets makes them a nobrain killing ganking machine? Couse they have cloak and can escape any time. Couse they have same saves as other stam builds (vigor, shuffle, dodge-roll).
I have a NBganker, i'm using him to gank ppl in imperial city for telvars and its so *** boring and easy...

Proccsets/poisons arent nb exclusive. Vigor, shuffle and dodgeroll arent either. Not sure what youre getting at here...
What makes a class is how the class skills work and how passives etc synergises with something like vigor or other abilities. Stamblade makes excellent gankers, yes, but open fighting, a stamblade is at a disadvantage imo. 2 things they need is a working cloak and something to boost healing. (like minor mending)

Strider_Roshin

As far as better healing is concerned, making it so that the Soul Siphoner grants minor mending for 15 seconds after activating a Siphoning ability would be a good change.

Izaki

FearlessOne_2014 wrote: »

Killset wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

SneaK wrote: »

I'll admit it, I am triggered by all the people that don't know how to StamNB. I don't disagree with your suggestions on some of those skills as they aren't really used much, if at all. However I do disagree that Stamblades are bad outside of ganking.

Do you play with multiple characters? I do, and I can make any class look OP. I can wipe a small Zerg with my magsorc, and dueling with my magDK is stupid easy. You know what my issue is? I can be successful in every aspect with my stamblade, but it requires a ton more skill, and attention to do so; and the worst part is that it is less rewarding. It pisses me off that I can kill so many more people by myself with my magsorc than I can with my stamblade, and it requires less skill to do it.

If a certain class or play style has a higher skill cap, it better pay off when it comes to performance. But in this game it doesn't.

That needs to change. And I would rather see stamblades get stronger than get simpler because the reason why the stamblade is my favorite is because it requires me to pay attention more which makes me more engaged with the game.

This. This right here. My mDK hit a 19.1k take flight in a duel yesterday. It's a great day when I see 12k on an incap. Nearly everyone of my friends (and my friends are very good players and nasty duellers) have abandoned nightblade because the class has been decimated through direct and indirect nerfs.

When people say nightblades have the highest burst potential I laugh. It immediately tells me they are not 1v1ing high end players with high end builds. Period. A sorc can level you with 30k worth of damage in a second. And when you look at your health bar only count 80% of that because if you drop below 20% your dead.

Now let's talk about power of the light. I was getting hit with 8.6k PoL's in full Heavy. It's crashing into you every 6 seconds along with their damage monster set of choice and undodgeable jabs.

I don't even have the energy too talk about mDKs and pet sorcs. How they are even allowed to exist in this game in their current state blows my F' ing mind.

What's wrong with pet sorcs?

As a Sorc main, I'd say everything is wrong with pet sorcs. And yeah, I do play one.

kaotikross

Just a few thoughts:
Nightblades are supposed to be spies, therefore, supposed to be ***. I earn my PVP points being a sneaky, dirty rat, staying out of the center of combat and just arrowing any enemy i can from the outside perimeter while heavily armored guys rush in for the glory. I also like to run defense, and keep a lot of ballistas and trebuchets as well as repair kits. If you're a big fan of rushing into the center, NB isn't gonna be for you on PVP.
there are a few things you CAN do to increase your survival rate, little stuff, like Heavy Stamina Armor. Still, be prepared to run and hide- a lot. Be prepared to hide behind boulders so your little overhead Icon isn't visible when eluding pursuers.
It's all about choosing your battles. You're weasely. You're sneaky. NB isn't a class for quick movement. Use the terrain. Find a large group and do support work. Cause distractions. Your Alliance sieging the castle? Hey, maybe ride to sacrifice yourself long enough at an enemy scroll temple to draw off the defenders. Just set up a ballista and get it mapmarked.

joe.smith21b14_ESO

kaotikross wrote: »

Just a few thoughts:
Nightblades are supposed to be spies, therefore, supposed to be ***. I earn my PVP points being a sneaky, dirty rat, staying out of the center of combat and just arrowing any enemy i can from the outside perimeter while heavily armored guys rush in for the glory. I also like to run defense, and keep a lot of ballistas and trebuchets as well as repair kits. If you're a big fan of rushing into the center, NB isn't gonna be for you on PVP.
there are a few things you CAN do to increase your survival rate, little stuff, like Heavy Stamina Armor. Still, be prepared to run and hide- a lot. Be prepared to hide behind boulders so your little overhead Icon isn't visible when eluding pursuers.
It's all about choosing your battles. You're weasely. You're sneaky. NB isn't a class for quick movement. Use the terrain. Find a large group and do support work. Cause distractions. Your Alliance sieging the castle? Hey, maybe ride to sacrifice yourself long enough at an enemy scroll temple to draw off the defenders. Just set up a ballista and get it mapmarked.

Nb's are the fastest class in the game. What you talkin bout

technohic

joe.smith21b14_ESO wrote: »

kaotikross wrote: »

Just a few thoughts:
Nightblades are supposed to be spies, therefore, supposed to be ***. I earn my PVP points being a sneaky, dirty rat, staying out of the center of combat and just arrowing any enemy i can from the outside perimeter while heavily armored guys rush in for the glory. I also like to run defense, and keep a lot of ballistas and trebuchets as well as repair kits. If you're a big fan of rushing into the center, NB isn't gonna be for you on PVP.
there are a few things you CAN do to increase your survival rate, little stuff, like Heavy Stamina Armor. Still, be prepared to run and hide- a lot. Be prepared to hide behind boulders so your little overhead Icon isn't visible when eluding pursuers.
It's all about choosing your battles. You're weasely. You're sneaky. NB isn't a class for quick movement. Use the terrain. Find a large group and do support work. Cause distractions. Your Alliance sieging the castle? Hey, maybe ride to sacrifice yourself long enough at an enemy scroll temple to draw off the defenders. Just set up a ballista and get it mapmarked.

Nb's are the fastest class in the game. What you talkin bout

What makes them faster than a Sorc?

joe.smith21b14_ESO

Ninja speed bruh

KingJ

technohic wrote: »

joe.smith21b14_ESO wrote: »

kaotikross wrote: »

Just a few thoughts:
Nightblades are supposed to be spies, therefore, supposed to be ***. I earn my PVP points being a sneaky, dirty rat, staying out of the center of combat and just arrowing any enemy i can from the outside perimeter while heavily armored guys rush in for the glory. I also like to run defense, and keep a lot of ballistas and trebuchets as well as repair kits. If you're a big fan of rushing into the center, NB isn't gonna be for you on PVP.
there are a few things you CAN do to increase your survival rate, little stuff, like Heavy Stamina Armor. Still, be prepared to run and hide- a lot. Be prepared to hide behind boulders so your little overhead Icon isn't visible when eluding pursuers.
It's all about choosing your battles. You're weasely. You're sneaky. NB isn't a class for quick movement. Use the terrain. Find a large group and do support work. Cause distractions. Your Alliance sieging the castle? Hey, maybe ride to sacrifice yourself long enough at an enemy scroll temple to draw off the defenders. Just set up a ballista and get it mapmarked.

Nb's are the fastest class in the game. What you talkin bout

What makes them faster than a Sorc?

Sorcs have the highest speed in the game. Hurricane minor expedition buff combined with major expedition give them a general higher movement speed than any other class.

joe.smith21b14_ESO

KingJ wrote: »

technohic wrote: »

joe.smith21b14_ESO wrote: »

kaotikross wrote: »

Just a few thoughts:
Nightblades are supposed to be spies, therefore, supposed to be ***. I earn my PVP points being a sneaky, dirty rat, staying out of the center of combat and just arrowing any enemy i can from the outside perimeter while heavily armored guys rush in for the glory. I also like to run defense, and keep a lot of ballistas and trebuchets as well as repair kits. If you're a big fan of rushing into the center, NB isn't gonna be for you on PVP.
there are a few things you CAN do to increase your survival rate, little stuff, like Heavy Stamina Armor. Still, be prepared to run and hide- a lot. Be prepared to hide behind boulders so your little overhead Icon isn't visible when eluding pursuers.
It's all about choosing your battles. You're weasely. You're sneaky. NB isn't a class for quick movement. Use the terrain. Find a large group and do support work. Cause distractions. Your Alliance sieging the castle? Hey, maybe ride to sacrifice yourself long enough at an enemy scroll temple to draw off the defenders. Just set up a ballista and get it mapmarked.

Nb's are the fastest class in the game. What you talkin bout

What makes them faster than a Sorc?

Sorcs have the highest speed in the game. Hurricane minor expedition buff combined with major expedition give them a general higher movement speed than any other class.

Incorrect sir a nb can in fact sneak faster than a orc stam sorc. I'm willing to put 50k if any one wants to test me.

technohic

joe.smith21b14_ESO wrote: »

KingJ wrote: »

technohic wrote: »

joe.smith21b14_ESO wrote: »

kaotikross wrote: »

Just a few thoughts:
Nightblades are supposed to be spies, therefore, supposed to be ***. I earn my PVP points being a sneaky, dirty rat, staying out of the center of combat and just arrowing any enemy i can from the outside perimeter while heavily armored guys rush in for the glory. I also like to run defense, and keep a lot of ballistas and trebuchets as well as repair kits. If you're a big fan of rushing into the center, NB isn't gonna be for you on PVP.
there are a few things you CAN do to increase your survival rate, little stuff, like Heavy Stamina Armor. Still, be prepared to run and hide- a lot. Be prepared to hide behind boulders so your little overhead Icon isn't visible when eluding pursuers.
It's all about choosing your battles. You're weasely. You're sneaky. NB isn't a class for quick movement. Use the terrain. Find a large group and do support work. Cause distractions. Your Alliance sieging the castle? Hey, maybe ride to sacrifice yourself long enough at an enemy scroll temple to draw off the defenders. Just set up a ballista and get it mapmarked.

Nb's are the fastest class in the game. What you talkin bout

What makes them faster than a Sorc?

Sorcs have the highest speed in the game. Hurricane minor expedition buff combined with major expedition give them a general higher movement speed than any other class.

Incorrect sir a nb can in fact sneak faster than a orc stam sorc. I'm willing to put 50k if any one wants to test me.

So you are using the magicka morph that gives a flat speed increase outside of minor/magor expedition. I played with it and was curious if it was faster than sorc which has minor and major, as well as streak and sprinting. Nevermind Orc as we can assume any class can make use of that.

joe.smith21b14_ESO

technohic wrote: »

joe.smith21b14_ESO wrote: »

KingJ wrote: »

technohic wrote: »

joe.smith21b14_ESO wrote: »

kaotikross wrote: »

Just a few thoughts:
Nightblades are supposed to be spies, therefore, supposed to be ***. I earn my PVP points being a sneaky, dirty rat, staying out of the center of combat and just arrowing any enemy i can from the outside perimeter while heavily armored guys rush in for the glory. I also like to run defense, and keep a lot of ballistas and trebuchets as well as repair kits. If you're a big fan of rushing into the center, NB isn't gonna be for you on PVP.
there are a few things you CAN do to increase your survival rate, little stuff, like Heavy Stamina Armor. Still, be prepared to run and hide- a lot. Be prepared to hide behind boulders so your little overhead Icon isn't visible when eluding pursuers.
It's all about choosing your battles. You're weasely. You're sneaky. NB isn't a class for quick movement. Use the terrain. Find a large group and do support work. Cause distractions. Your Alliance sieging the castle? Hey, maybe ride to sacrifice yourself long enough at an enemy scroll temple to draw off the defenders. Just set up a ballista and get it mapmarked.

Nb's are the fastest class in the game. What you talkin bout

What makes them faster than a Sorc?

Sorcs have the highest speed in the game. Hurricane minor expedition buff combined with major expedition give them a general higher movement speed than any other class.

Incorrect sir a nb can in fact sneak faster than a orc stam sorc. I'm willing to put 50k if any one wants to test me.

So you are using the magicka morph that gives a flat speed increase outside of minor/magor expedition. I played with it and was curious if it was faster than sorc which has minor and major, as well as streak and sprinting. Nevermind Orc as we can assume any class can make use of that.

You are correct sir

FlyLionel

Killset wrote: »

FlyLionel wrote: »

Killset wrote: »

I just want some sort of major mending. I would trade cloak for it in a minute. The nerf to vitality pots devastated non gank nightblades in open world. Other classes are not affected by it that much. I feel like that nerf alone was aimed directly at the class.

Since release I've played stam nb, bro leave cloak...it's a nightblade thing seriously. Yes we're the most squishy class but also the hardest hitting class, saying things like completely trash in pvp unless you gank? I understand that you may be talking about the sheep who play NB and have trouble with surviving and can only 'win' by ganking; but still. Also remember we have the best resource management in the game hands down simply on automatic (passive/siphoning attacks/grim). And no dark deal doesn't count as automatic.

I agree that NB's ability missing major brutality sucks and all that but it's just the design, and it actually fits. They gave us brutality with power extraction which is decent in pve. If you want brutality with DW use shrouded daggers. It's all in the design yo. DK/Templar are suppose to be the beefier classes while sorc/nb have more unique things (shields/speed/cloaks). I just wish Zeni would make a thread explaining to everyone their goals with each class(maybe they did). Obviously DK are the OP tank guys, templars are all around jugs, sorcs...well someone has to play the typical magic build, stam wise it's more refreshing with stam sorc. And nightblades...use your intuition for them! Also I'd like to add that cloak is buggy at times taking you out of stealth sucks(broken record), please fix.

So have I, I'm just saying cloak is so unreliable I would trade it for something useful at this point. And you are 100% incorrect in thinking nightblades are the hardest hitting class.

Cloak is unreliable when you want to use it when an enemy decides to attack etc, when on a NB I do not go spamming it when I am in trouble; that leads it to its faults. You have to adjust, meaning to use it for extended CC immunity or planned burst. If cloak still suffers from gap closers, that is literally the worst thing about it(also outnumbered 8/10 it will not work). And I am 100% incorrect in my own thoughts? That is arrogance on your end. I was under the impression that surprise attack is the only spammable class ability that debuffs the enemies' armour; all whilst having a high base damage. You are thinking of all classes geared out and hitting multiple attacks, maybe you will have a point in that situation. Strip everything and let all classes use their main spammable; if they even have one and you'll see for yourself. Major debuff/fastest spammable melee and a free CC from invisiblity, stam NB's design was meant to hit the hardest in a cone singular way. It is only due to all these nasty setups that other classes get an edge with all their hurricane/potl/dkdot ticks in congruent. We're talking about one attack that is spammable, consistent throughout the fight = main dps.

KingJ

joe.smith21b14_ESO wrote: »

KingJ wrote: »

technohic wrote: »

joe.smith21b14_ESO wrote: »

kaotikross wrote: »

Just a few thoughts:
Nightblades are supposed to be spies, therefore, supposed to be ***. I earn my PVP points being a sneaky, dirty rat, staying out of the center of combat and just arrowing any enemy i can from the outside perimeter while heavily armored guys rush in for the glory. I also like to run defense, and keep a lot of ballistas and trebuchets as well as repair kits. If you're a big fan of rushing into the center, NB isn't gonna be for you on PVP.
there are a few things you CAN do to increase your survival rate, little stuff, like Heavy Stamina Armor. Still, be prepared to run and hide- a lot. Be prepared to hide behind boulders so your little overhead Icon isn't visible when eluding pursuers.
It's all about choosing your battles. You're weasely. You're sneaky. NB isn't a class for quick movement. Use the terrain. Find a large group and do support work. Cause distractions. Your Alliance sieging the castle? Hey, maybe ride to sacrifice yourself long enough at an enemy scroll temple to draw off the defenders. Just set up a ballista and get it mapmarked.

Nb's are the fastest class in the game. What you talkin bout

What makes them faster than a Sorc?

Sorcs have the highest speed in the game. Hurricane minor expedition buff combined with major expedition give them a general higher movement speed than any other class.

Incorrect sir a nb can in fact sneak faster than a orc stam sorc. I'm willing to put 50k if any one wants to test me.

That's not what you said dude you stated a NB is the fastest class in the game no where did you mentioned in stealth. A stam sorc is the fastest class in the game.

KingJ

FlyLionel wrote: »

Killset wrote: »

FlyLionel wrote: »

Killset wrote: »

I just want some sort of major mending. I would trade cloak for it in a minute. The nerf to vitality pots devastated non gank nightblades in open world. Other classes are not affected by it that much. I feel like that nerf alone was aimed directly at the class.

Since release I've played stam nb, bro leave cloak...it's a nightblade thing seriously. Yes we're the most squishy class but also the hardest hitting class, saying things like completely trash in pvp unless you gank? I understand that you may be talking about the sheep who play NB and have trouble with surviving and can only 'win' by ganking; but still. Also remember we have the best resource management in the game hands down simply on automatic (passive/siphoning attacks/grim). And no dark deal doesn't count as automatic.

I agree that NB's ability missing major brutality sucks and all that but it's just the design, and it actually fits. They gave us brutality with power extraction which is decent in pve. If you want brutality with DW use shrouded daggers. It's all in the design yo. DK/Templar are suppose to be the beefier classes while sorc/nb have more unique things (shields/speed/cloaks). I just wish Zeni would make a thread explaining to everyone their goals with each class(maybe they did). Obviously DK are the OP tank guys, templars are all around jugs, sorcs...well someone has to play the typical magic build, stam wise it's more refreshing with stam sorc. And nightblades...use your intuition for them! Also I'd like to add that cloak is buggy at times taking you out of stealth sucks(broken record), please fix.

So have I, I'm just saying cloak is so unreliable I would trade it for something useful at this point. And you are 100% incorrect in thinking nightblades are the hardest hitting class.

Cloak is unreliable when you want to use it when an enemy decides to attack etc, when on a NB I do not go spamming it when I am in trouble; that leads it to its faults. You have to adjust, meaning to use it for extended CC immunity or planned burst. If cloak still suffers from gap closers, that is literally the worst thing about it(also outnumbered 8/10 it will not work). And I am 100% incorrect in my own thoughts? That is arrogance on your end. I was under the impression that surprise attack is the only spammable class ability that debuffs the enemies' armour; all whilst having a high base damage. You are thinking of all classes geared out and hitting multiple attacks, maybe you will have a point in that situation. Strip everything and let all classes use their main spammable; if they even have one and you'll see for yourself. Major debuff/fastest spammable melee and a free CC from invisiblity, stam NB's design was meant to hit the hardest in a cone singular way. It is only due to all these nasty setups that other classes get an edge with all their hurricane/potl/dkdot ticks in congruent. We're talking about one attack that is spammable, consistent throughout the fight = main dps.

I have a question for stamdk and stam sorc since those classes do not have a class spammable can they use rapid strikes?If we allow them to use Rapid strikes even with the Debuffs rapid strikes will out DPs surprise attack.This is about PVP and burst is King you need to setup your combo.So leaving all of the other class toolkits out of the equation doesn't hold weight.Setting up a burst combo is important and each class have a burst combo that hit just as hard if not harder than a StamNB. You have to look at everything fp determine how a class is not just 1 part.