The needed changes for stam Nightblades to make them viable again.

Joy_Division

BohnT wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

I give up on this thread.
I made countless arguments why stamnb is inferior in relation to other classes and all counter arguments are stupid statements with out any evidence to why they are right.
Or I hear the stupid L2P which is bullsh** I play this class since beta and definitely know how to play there are just so many encouters and situations where any other class is superior.
I won't list the arguments for that again as I think most people didn't read the full thread

If people don;t accept your arguments that doesn't mean they are dumb or aren't listening.

Like many people in this thread, I didn;t find your arguments very persuasive either.

Stamina nightblades have no reliable self heals all class heals are based on killing your target ---> completely trash in PvP unless you gank.

.

Disingenuous because stam NBs have easy access to two of the best heals in the game: Rally and vigor. Stam NBs that use those skills can pull just as muck healing output in a fight as a Templar. Now you want to give them an additional free HoT in minor lifesteal?

Stamnb has no good skill to get access to major brutality unless you use momentum or the crappy power extraction.

It's not "missing" on the NB. It's there. On a skill you don't want to use. If you don;t want to use it, you an get it from Rally which also gives you a good heal. It's templars that are "missing" that skill. You're solution is to make Surprise attack, an already good spammable, to give Shadow Ward and Major Brutality?

And you want stam NBs to have major mending? You don;t want stam NBs to be competitive. You want them to have every and easy access to the most powerfull buffs in the game so they dominate the other classes.

NBs are no exception in they have poor skills and are locked into one playstyle. Each class only has 15 skills and only half on them are decent for PvP. Sorcs are shield stackers. Templars are heavy armor block BoL. DKs are one-hand shield fossilize+whips.

NBs aren't as good as the other classes DPS wise because they designed to be the "gank" class in ESO. I understand the frustration some NBs have in that they are not invited to PvE DPS because of that. But if the best "gank" class stood no disadvantage in a face-to-face "fair" fight, then that would be totally busted. It's hard for me to take at face value the complaints stam NBs make on these forums that their class in not competitive when every night I see players like Miat and Dururthy excel. Neither one of them are "gankers" per se and take on and defeat multiple opponents at a time.

The same healing output as a templar. Are you kidding me? I can hit 15k heals on my BoL in cyro every second gl getting the same results with momentum and vigor. I started this thread with the statement that I want the ganking part of nbs to be nerfed and make them better in direct fights but I guess you didn't read that no problem.
I could use power extraction to gain major brutality but why would I waste a skill slot for an AoE that is outclassed by any other aoe.

Saying that I have easy access to 2 good heals is partially true but any other stam class has the same two heals and more.
I don't want stamnb to be dominating and the changes I proposed won't make them Fotm as the other classes are so strong that it will only bring them on par with them.

Yes, all classes can attain roughly the same amount of healing/damage mitigation whether through shielding, healing, avoidance. Every second a NB gets thousands of health from their HoTs and this doesn't even count the hits they completely avoid (unlike templars who pretty much have to eat everything thrown at them). A Templar doesn't have those strong HoTs ticking because the class is designed for occasional use of those burst heals. If a templar is BoL every second, they are losing the fight. I can cherry pick the situationally best scenario for NB damage like you do. A NB can do 35K damage to a heavy armor target in a second, does that mean NB DPS is OP and we should raise other class's DPS to compete?

You might want the ganking part of NBs nerfed, but I highly doubt ZoS will ever do anything to not make them the "gank" class anymore. It's their function. It's why many players picked them. It would be like taking healing away from templars. It isn't happening.

If you grant NBs easy access to major mending, major brutality, lifesteal, an absorption effect that restores health, +8% weapon damage, free +8% stamina, wtc., they would not merely be on par with the other classes, they would blow them away.

You might not want them to dominate, but your proposed changes would make them so.

Alphaa

If you want all these extra passives can we take a couple of debuffs from your incap strike? Or is that too much nerf?

BohnT

Alphaa wrote: »

If you want all these extra passives can we take a couple of debuffs from your incap strike? Or is that too much nerf?

Sure but then nerf the other classes as well. Remove dark deal, remove implosion, get rid of all buffs of hurricane, make shieldstacking impossible, make curse blockable, decrease duration of mages fury to 1.5 sec, implement talons cost penalty, increase duration of destro ult to 15 seconds but keep the overall damage the same, BoL should have a cost penalty as well just like shields, decrease range of beam to 7 meters

I don't even use incap anymore simply because I never face one enemy at the time. dawnbreaker is more bursty and lets me kill 3 ppl at the same time

FloppyTouch

BohnT wrote: »

Alphaa wrote: »

If you want all these extra passives can we take a couple of debuffs from your incap strike? Or is that too much nerf?

Sure but then nerf the other classes as well. Remove dark deal, remove implosion, get rid of all buffs of hurricane, make shieldstacking impossible, make curse blockable, decrease duration of mages fury to 1.5 sec, implement talons cost penalty, increase duration of destro ult to 15 seconds but keep the overall damage the same, BoL should have a cost penalty as well just like shields, decrease range of beam to 7 meters

I don't even use incap anymore simply because I never face one enemy at the time. dawnbreaker is more bursty and lets me kill 3 ppl at the same time

Kills three ppl at same time calls for buff
#forumppl

Cathexis

FloppyTouch wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

Alphaa wrote: »

If you want all these extra passives can we take a couple of debuffs from your incap strike? Or is that too much nerf?

Sure but then nerf the other classes as well. Remove dark deal, remove implosion, get rid of all buffs of hurricane, make shieldstacking impossible, make curse blockable, decrease duration of mages fury to 1.5 sec, implement talons cost penalty, increase duration of destro ult to 15 seconds but keep the overall damage the same, BoL should have a cost penalty as well just like shields, decrease range of beam to 7 meters

I don't even use incap anymore simply because I never face one enemy at the time. dawnbreaker is more bursty and lets me kill 3 ppl at the same time

Kills three ppl at same time calls for buff
#forumppl

I know right. Like I know how to build bomb builds, and its not easy on not a nightblade. The more I look at this thread the more it seems like nightblades really don't know how easy they have it. I mean, teleportstrike alone is probably the most overpowered thing in the whole game, asside from maybe a well built use of guard.

Cathexis

BohnT wrote: »

Alphaa wrote: »

If you want all these extra passives can we take a couple of debuffs from your incap strike? Or is that too much nerf?

Sure but then nerf the other classes as well. Remove dark deal, remove implosion, get rid of all buffs of hurricane, make shieldstacking impossible, make curse blockable, decrease duration of mages fury to 1.5 sec, implement talons cost penalty, increase duration of destro ult to 15 seconds but keep the overall damage the same, BoL should have a cost penalty as well just like shields, decrease range of beam to 7 meters

I don't even use incap anymore simply because I never face one enemy at the time. dawnbreaker is more bursty and lets me kill 3 ppl at the same time

Hang on hang on this is the line of logic

"I want a buff that does X"
"Ok well that would mean that we would need to balance Y"
"Ok well then lets nerf other classes too"


So really, you just want to nerf other classes so other people are easier to kill.
This is a troll thread.

CatchMeTrolling

BohnT wrote: »

Alphaa wrote: »

If you want all these extra passives can we take a couple of debuffs from your incap strike? Or is that too much nerf?

Sure but then nerf the other classes as well. Remove dark deal, remove implosion, get rid of all buffs of hurricane, make shieldstacking impossible, make curse blockable, decrease duration of mages fury to 1.5 sec, implement talons cost penalty, increase duration of destro ult to 15 seconds but keep the overall damage the same, BoL should have a cost penalty as well just like shields, decrease range of beam to 7 meters

I don't even use incap anymore simply because I never face one enemy at the time. dawnbreaker is more bursty and lets me kill 3 ppl at the same time

BohnT

People really don't understand sarcasm these days. When I kill 3 ppl with dawnbreaker it's not like I encounter them and eye roll them with dawnbreaker. There are long fights before against 3 ppl where I get all the buffs I need.
1 make sure no one in cc immune
2 drain stam with trap ( or be a scrub and use poisons)
3 proc 2 sets which help you to burst them
4 don't get stunned, rooted etc or your buffs run out and you need to survive longer
5 find a choke point where you can hit all of them
6 fear them, and use dawnbreaker
7 kill them one by one and hope their healer has no stamina or all of them will survive

When I kill 3 ppl at the same time they are bad, not organised and I have luck with all buffs.
That won't happen against any decent players

Killset

FloppyTouch wrote: »

Anyone else rolling there eyes hard at the people saying Stamblade has the highest skill cap or is that just me?
I made a Stamblade and never killed other players so easily without even thinking.

That's crazy. I thought the same exact thing when I made my mDK. That class is ridiculously over the top. Right next to Sorcs.

Ocelot9x

Nb s are fine. They dont need buffs or nerfs. They synergies really well with sets like trollking and they have hands down the best spammable and cc in the game.

zuto40

OK so since a lot of people don't know how to play stamblade I'm gonna make a tutorial, y'all gonna see all we need is a fixed cloak, it's time to L2P

Strider_Roshin

Ocelot9x wrote: »

Nb s are fine. They dont need buffs or nerfs. They synergies really well with sets like trollking and they have hands down the best spammable and cc in the game.

Lol yeah Nightblades are not fine. Just look at the numbers

Asmael wrote: »

Taking a look at esoleaderboards.com's HTML source code and doing ctrl+f, we can find for each page (trial) how many times each word appears:

Aetherian Archives

• DK - 324
• NB - 104
• Templar - 335
• Sorcerer - 357

Hel Ra Citadel

• DK - 353
• NB - 117
• Templar - 343
• Sorcerer - 430

Sanctum Ophidial

• DK - 459
• NB - 157
• Templar - 405
• Sorcerer - 434

Maw of Lorkhaj

• DK - 317
• NB - 74
• Templar - 265
• Sorcerer - 291

Dragonstar Arena

• DK - 181
• NB - 56
• Templar - 181
• Sorcerer - 169

We're excluding vMA since they have their own leaderboards per class.

Now this is done regardless of spec (stam / magicka) or role (tank / DD / healer), but the total count is:

TOTAL

• DK - 1,634
• NB - 508
• Templar - 1,529
• Sorcerer - 1,681

TL;DR: DK and sorcerers are about as popular, templar just a tiny bit behind, and NB is... Welp.

Strider_Roshin

So not only do Nightblades need a buff, but they need a massive buff at that.

Your opinions are worthless against the data.

CatchMeTrolling

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

So not only do Nightblades need a buff, but they need a massive buff at that.

Your opinions are worthless against the data.

Pve. Very conclusive data this one thinks.

Sarru

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

Asmael wrote: »

we can find for each page (trial) ...

Forums - PvP Combat & Skills

/facepalm.jpg

Strider_Roshin

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

So not only do Nightblades need a buff, but they need a massive buff at that.

Your opinions are worthless against the data.

Pve. Very conclusive data this one thinks.

Then how would you determine the state of Nightblades in PvP empirically? Dueling tournaments? Nope, they're not competitive there. Contribution to group PvP? Nope, not desirable there. 1vXing videos? You can find plenty for every class.

Or should we judge it based on leaderboards in Cyrodiil? Nightblades are just as poor in standing there as they are in trials.

CatchMeTrolling

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

So not only do Nightblades need a buff, but they need a massive buff at that.

Your opinions are worthless against the data.

Pve. Very conclusive data this one thinks.

Then how would you determine the state of Nightblades in PvP empirically? Dueling tournaments? Nope, they're not competitive there. Contribution to group PvP? Nope, not desirable there. 1vXing videos? You can find plenty for every class.

Or should we judge it based on leaderboards in Cyrodiil? Nightblades are just as poor in standing there as they are in trials.

Nothing is wrong with stamblades in open world pvp but if we're to use your logic then people could've been using VMA to justify why magblades are in a good spot.

And what NB's are you referring to for leaderboards because magnb bombers are always on them & always getting emp.

Strider_Roshin

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

So not only do Nightblades need a buff, but they need a massive buff at that.

Your opinions are worthless against the data.

Pve. Very conclusive data this one thinks.

Then how would you determine the state of Nightblades in PvP empirically? Dueling tournaments? Nope, they're not competitive there. Contribution to group PvP? Nope, not desirable there. 1vXing videos? You can find plenty for every class.

Or should we judge it based on leaderboards in Cyrodiil? Nightblades are just as poor in standing there as they are in trials.

Nothing is wrong with stamblades in open world pvp but if we're to use your logic then people could've been using VMA to justify why magblades are in a good spot.

Understood. It was a retort to those that believe that Nightblades are in no need of a buff at all. And as you know ZOS doesn't just buff a class in PvE; it typically applies to all departments.

Killset

Lokey0024 wrote: »

Killset wrote: »

Aedaryl wrote: »

Killset wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

SneaK wrote: »

I'll admit it, I am triggered by all the people that don't know how to StamNB. I don't disagree with your suggestions on some of those skills as they aren't really used much, if at all. However I do disagree that Stamblades are bad outside of ganking.

Do you play with multiple characters? I do, and I can make any class look OP. I can wipe a small Zerg with my magsorc, and dueling with my magDK is stupid easy. You know what my issue is? I can be successful in every aspect with my stamblade, but it requires a ton more skill, and attention to do so; and the worst part is that it is less rewarding. It pisses me off that I can kill so many more people by myself with my magsorc than I can with my stamblade, and it requires less skill to do it.

If a certain class or play style has a higher skill cap, it better pay off when it comes to performance. But in this game it doesn't.

That needs to change. And I would rather see stamblades get stronger than get simpler because the reason why the stamblade is my favorite is because it requires me to pay attention more which makes me more engaged with the game.

This. This right here. My mDK hit a 19.1k take flight in a duel yesterday. It's a great day when I see 12k on an incap. Nearly everyone of my friends (and my friends are very good players and nasty duellers) have abandoned nightblade because the class has been decimated through direct and indirect nerfs.

When people say nightblades have the highest burst potential I laugh. It immediately tells me they are not 1v1ing high end players with high end builds. Period. A sorc can level you with 30k worth of damage in a second. And when you look at your health bar only count 80% of that because if you drop below 20% your dead.

Now let's talk about power of the light. I was getting hit with 8.6k PoL's in full Heavy. It's crashing into you every 6 seconds along with their damage monster set of choice and undodgeable jabs.

I don't even have the energy too talk about mDKs and pet sorcs. How they are even allowed to exist in this game in their current state blows my F' ing mind.

You are wrong about the NB, just put heavy armor and see how powerfull it is.

I agree Heavy is way better. That's my point. Damage is so high NB's are forced to run Heavy. And Heavy doesn't do anything more for NB's than it does for any other class.

Troll king heavy armor and 15% NB health regen.

I ran a heavy ogrims/spriggans and rolled with a group. Was basically unkillable. Didnt hit stupid hard so had to figure out how to dish out more dmg in the build.

Then tried fasalas and was even better.

You been spoonfed a little. Wipe your chin and go figure out how to make stuff work

That's funny. Spoonfed. Fasalas is a great set right up until you run into a sorc who doesn't give 2 s@!!s about healing reduction. And that should only take about 90 seconds in PvP. Stop pretending that you can't see just about every other class in the game has damage on par with NB's and better mitigation to go along with it. When you said "rolled with a group" i pretty much lost interest in anything you had to say. Stick to your group, that way you won't ever really have to worry about class, build, or skill deficiencies.

Killset

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

So not only do Nightblades need a buff, but they need a massive buff at that.

Your opinions are worthless against the data.

Pve. Very conclusive data this one thinks.

Then how would you determine the state of Nightblades in PvP empirically? Dueling tournaments? Nope, they're not competitive there. Contribution to group PvP? Nope, not desirable there. 1vXing videos? You can find plenty for every class.

Or should we judge it based on leaderboards in Cyrodiil? Nightblades are just as poor in standing there as they are in trials.

I am telling you right now that 80% of battlegrounds leaderboard groups won't even have a Nightblade in them. I seriously doubt I will use mine. It will be hard for other classes to ignore that. The simple fact that Nightblades do not win dueling tournaments should be a good indication of that. And the crap that people throw out about 1v1 not meaning anything is getting old. When you put 4 people together, all running one of the top 1v1 classes, the group will not mysteriously get weaker now that they are together. Inversely, if you asseble 4 of the weakest class/classes together, I assure you some miraculous synergy will not take place making your team unbeatable.

The thing that aggravates me is that so many classes bring everything the Nightblade has to the table and then some. Damage? Check. Damage mitigation? Check. Group utility? Check. Ask yourself this, in Battlegrounds with min/maxed builds and equally skilled players, who would you put your money on, 4 MagSorcs or 4 Nightblades? 4 Stamplars or 4 Stamblades? I know who I would bet on.

When I duel certain classes on my Stamblade I know right off the bat that I won't be able to make any mistakes, where as other classes can make numerous mistakes and still recover. I feel like a lot of people posting in here either have never played the class, gank, have been ganked, or Zerg around PvP clueless. That or they just post with the agenda of keeping anything that is not their favorite class nerfed straight into the ground.

thankyourat

Killset wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

So not only do Nightblades need a buff, but they need a massive buff at that.

Your opinions are worthless against the data.

Pve. Very conclusive data this one thinks.

Then how would you determine the state of Nightblades in PvP empirically? Dueling tournaments? Nope, they're not competitive there. Contribution to group PvP? Nope, not desirable there. 1vXing videos? You can find plenty for every class.

Or should we judge it based on leaderboards in Cyrodiil? Nightblades are just as poor in standing there as they are in trials.

I am telling you right now that 80% of battlegrounds leaderboard groups won't even have a Nightblade in them. I seriously doubt I will use mine. It will be hard for other classes to ignore that. The simple fact that Nightblades do not win dueling tournaments should be a good indication of that. And the crap that people throw out about 1v1 not meaning anything is getting old. When you put 4 people together, all running one of the top 1v1 classes, the group will not mysteriously get weaker now that they are together. Inversely, if you asseble 4 of the weakest class/classes together, I assure you some miraculous synergy will not take place making your team unbeatable.

The thing that aggravates me is that so many classes bring everything the Nightblade has to the table and then some. Damage? Check. Damage mitigation? Check. Group utility? Check. Ask yourself this, in Battlegrounds with min/maxed builds and equally skilled players, who would you put your money on, 4 MagSorcs or 4 Nightblades? 4 Stamplars or 4 Stamblades? I know who I would bet on.

When I duel certain classes on my Stamblade I know right off the bat that I won't be able to make any mistakes, where as other classes can make numerous mistakes and still recover. I feel like a lot of people posting in here either have never played the class, gank, have been ganked, or Zerg around PvP clueless. That or they just post with the agenda of keeping anything that is not their favorite class nerfed straight into the ground.

I agree with alot of this but I think 4 stamblades would be better together than 4 Stam dk's and 4 stamplars. They would have so much control. A class can be weak in 1v1 but strong in 4v4. magplar is a good example of this. 1v1 stamblade is better because it's harder to counter you can literally root a magplar then walk behind them and they are useless and turn into heal bots rather quickly. But in a 4v4 magplar is really strong it's also really strong in choke points. I think the reason stamblades won't be use is the same reason why no stamina builds would probably be used, they offer no group utility. Stam builds have better burst, mitigation, healing, and mobility. Mag builds have better crowd control and AOE which is why most zergs are made up of magicka characters it doesn't matter how high your single target burst is if you can't focus a player because he is in a group. Stamina build are still better for solo play, and dueling is pretty balance between mag and Stam

deepseamk20b14_ESO

Nightblade is the most OP class in the game. They can go invisible.

Lokey0024

Killset wrote: »

Lokey0024 wrote: »

Killset wrote: »

Aedaryl wrote: »

Killset wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

SneaK wrote: »

I'll admit it, I am triggered by all the people that don't know how to StamNB. I don't disagree with your suggestions on some of those skills as they aren't really used much, if at all. However I do disagree that Stamblades are bad outside of ganking.

Do you play with multiple characters? I do, and I can make any class look OP. I can wipe a small Zerg with my magsorc, and dueling with my magDK is stupid easy. You know what my issue is? I can be successful in every aspect with my stamblade, but it requires a ton more skill, and attention to do so; and the worst part is that it is less rewarding. It pisses me off that I can kill so many more people by myself with my magsorc than I can with my stamblade, and it requires less skill to do it.

If a certain class or play style has a higher skill cap, it better pay off when it comes to performance. But in this game it doesn't.

That needs to change. And I would rather see stamblades get stronger than get simpler because the reason why the stamblade is my favorite is because it requires me to pay attention more which makes me more engaged with the game.

This. This right here. My mDK hit a 19.1k take flight in a duel yesterday. It's a great day when I see 12k on an incap. Nearly everyone of my friends (and my friends are very good players and nasty duellers) have abandoned nightblade because the class has been decimated through direct and indirect nerfs.

When people say nightblades have the highest burst potential I laugh. It immediately tells me they are not 1v1ing high end players with high end builds. Period. A sorc can level you with 30k worth of damage in a second. And when you look at your health bar only count 80% of that because if you drop below 20% your dead.

Now let's talk about power of the light. I was getting hit with 8.6k PoL's in full Heavy. It's crashing into you every 6 seconds along with their damage monster set of choice and undodgeable jabs.

I don't even have the energy too talk about mDKs and pet sorcs. How they are even allowed to exist in this game in their current state blows my F' ing mind.

You are wrong about the NB, just put heavy armor and see how powerfull it is.

I agree Heavy is way better. That's my point. Damage is so high NB's are forced to run Heavy. And Heavy doesn't do anything more for NB's than it does for any other class.

Troll king heavy armor and 15% NB health regen.

I ran a heavy ogrims/spriggans and rolled with a group. Was basically unkillable. Didnt hit stupid hard so had to figure out how to dish out more dmg in the build.

Then tried fasalas and was even better.

You been spoonfed a little. Wipe your chin and go figure out how to make stuff work

That's funny. Spoonfed. Fasalas is a great set right up until you run into a sorc who doesn't give 2 s@!!s about healing reduction. And that should only take about 90 seconds in PvP. Stop pretending that you can't see just about every other class in the game has damage on par with NB's and better mitigation to go along with it. When you said "rolled with a group" i pretty much lost interest in anything you had to say. Stick to your group, that way you won't ever really have to worry about class, build, or skill deficiencies.

So 1 class out of 8, which is the most OP class RN, isnt affected by the secondary armor set i mentioned, making you quit listening about group play. You, sir, are wearing blinders to try and get OP NB back.

I think someones jealous they dont have a strong aoe dot/execute ezmode like stam sorc.

Im just curious wtf you think can buffed on a Nb that wont make then stupidly OP? Longer relentless timer?

Strider_Roshin

deepseamk20b14_ESO wrote: »

Nightblade is the most OP class in the game. They can go invisible.

Lol

Lokey0024

deepseamk20b14_ESO wrote: »

Nightblade is the most OP class in the game. They can go invisible.

CWURVED SWOARDS!!

deepseamk20b14_ESO

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

deepseamk20b14_ESO wrote: »

Nightblade is the most OP class in the game. They can go invisible.

Lol

; )

KingJ

deepseamk20b14_ESO wrote: »

Nightblade is the most OP class in the game. They can go invisible.

If cloak actually worked you might have a point but cloak been broken for almost a year now.

deepseamk20b14_ESO

KingJ wrote: »

deepseamk20b14_ESO wrote: »

Nightblade is the most OP class in the game. They can go invisible.

If cloak actually worked you might have a point but cloak been broken for almost a year now.

It's been broken since the beginning, honestly. I was being facetious anyways hahaha.

Chair

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

So not only do Nightblades need a buff, but they need a massive buff at that.

Your opinions are worthless against the data.

In pve yes but that is it stamblade is perfectly fine ATM in PVP anyone who says it is under powerd please L2P the class before you cry on the forums about our class being bad k ty

Xvorg

Chair wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

So not only do Nightblades need a buff, but they need a massive buff at that.

Your opinions are worthless against the data.

In pve yes but that is it stamblade is perfectly fine ATM in PVP anyone who says it is under powerd please L2P the class before you cry on the forums about our class being bad k ty

And that assupmtion is based on your own experience right?