WRONG FEEDBACK SOURCE Streamers don't represent most players

Gilvoth

Kalante wrote: »

these streamers care more about the game than all of you ...

... you people just talking smack and flat out nonsense....

wow, that's ...
ok, just to be clear, id like to repeat my stance on this,

"what those youtubers and streamers are saying does not represent me nor my friends nor my guildmates nor people in zone chats opinions.
those are bias opinions of those utubers and streamers alone and that is just Wrong to do, and to think they are representing us players is beyond inappropriate."

willlienellson

On the previous page there is a single guy posting snarky comments 3 or 4 times, a bunch of "WHY YOU SO JELLY" memes and crap. This is what I'm talking about.

Very few people are really addressing the issues I wrote about. Very few. Those that disagree just seem to be throwing out insults and smokescreens. It's kind of a joke.

What normal person wants to take a vacation to a corporate headquarters in F'ing BALTIMORE? lmfao
Next year someone will accuse me of being jealous I didn't get a tour of an empty warehouse in Detroit.

SirAndy

SirAndy wrote: »

This is hardly anything new and has been happening on a regular basis since beta.
The only difference is that this time ZOS opted to make this public.

Just making sure this doesn't get lost in all the drivel ...

VelociousLegend

willlienellson wrote: »

On the previous page there is a single guy posting snarky comments 3 or 4 times, a bunch of "WHY YOU SO JELLY" memes and crap. This is what I'm talking about.

Very few people are really addressing the issues I wrote about. Very few. Those that disagree just seem to be throwing out insults and smokescreens. It's kind of a joke.

What normal person wants to take a vacation to a corporate headquarters in F'ing BALTIMORE? lmfao
Next year someone will accuse me of being jealous I didn't get a tour of an empty warehouse in Detroit.

The people complaining are just upset that they are not there to influence or add their two cents into the patch changes - not to tour the facilities.

ZOS is getting early feedback into the development process from a small test group. By the time PTS is released it is too late to make any drastic changes. And having the entire community weigh decisions this early prior to the release will be hard to manage. So they are doing a closed alpha/beta test of the patch before the public is made aware. And as already mentioned, this has been going on - just not publicly announced.

FENGRUSH

willlienellson wrote: »

ZOS Focuses way too much on the feedback of elite "celebrity" gamers while they roundly ignore player consensus and feedback on the forums as a matter of course. It's a problem.
Original Post Below:
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Apparently, right now, a select elite of ESO youtubers like Sypher and Deltia, etc are meeting in person with Zenimax after being invited to the headquarters.

While these youtubers provide a service with their content, they hardly represent the ESO player base neither formally nor informally. They most often represent each other. They represent a micro-industry that operates along side ESO. If anything in-game, they represent a small minority of elite guilds that don't experience ESO like the rest of us and are not good representatives.

Please allow me to explain and provide examples.

PvP: I'm not suggesting any of the specific youtubers or "celebrity players" cheat (although some do and have been banned for it), but they also don't experience playing against cheating, or even against OP players, in the same way. Members of this class of ESO players avoid combat with each other. Many of the known cheaters in this game belong to the same guilds as these elite celebrity ESO players. That doesn't mean the celebrity youtubers are cheating, but it usually means the cheaters don't fight against them. This results in this group having an unrealistically casual viewpoint on cheating as something more benign than it is.

Exploits/Secrets: And exploiting game glitches is the cousin of cheating. Things that aren't working as intended, but are unlikely to get you banned, are passed around as open-secrets within the group and become staples of builds, but are not shared publicly because they don't want them fixed.

Here are two examples of fixed exploits that people weren't getting banned for, that I think I can provide since they no longer work.

1) You could double enchant Flanking Set jewelry with a total of 6 jewelry glyphs instead of 3.
2) You could glitch out Hist Bark set to give a dodge bonus even after you took the set off.

So while you were making the hard choices about how to enchant your jewelry, some players were not. When you were spending 3000 stamina to cast Shuffle, or wearing 5 pieces of Hist Bark, others were dodging with neither.

I'm not accusing anyone of doing these things, but I know the people who did do these things are embedded within that small community. So, at it's most benign, this colors the feedback and impressions of the players in that community which are passed on to Zos as apparently about the only feedback they are actually interested in.

Powercreep: Even if none of the youtube celebrity player cheat, or exploit, or take advantage of tricks....the higher ceiling of performance that is enjoyed on average in these communities is exacerbating the power creep problem in this game. Members of this sector of the community are always the first to say, "This game offers me no challenge. VMA is too easy. This is too easy. That is too easy".

Balancing: Their opinion of balance rarely reflects the community because they rarely face players utilizing abilities to their maximum effectiveness due to the fact that players within this class avoid fighting each other. This is the only game I've ever played where friends cannot play against each other. I've had several of the people I consider members of this niche group actually tell me point blank, "Friends don't kill each other in PvP. I'll give you a pass and you give me a pass. Stop fighting against me or I'm taking you off friends list".

Instead of two great players with great builds fighting each other and learning that certain abilities are indeed out of balance, they pass by each other, high-fiving one another as they farm the pugs from each others alliances and convince themselves that the game is perfectly balanced but THEY are individually "Gods of PvP".
These players don't have experiences in the game that would allow them to adequately represent the larger player base.

The resources were used to have this elite youtube gathering session at Zenimax would have been better spent reading the forums, selecting a few issues with broad community consensus, and then having an internal meeting on how to best address those concerns. But that's too much to hope for.

Yes, I'm painting with a broad brush. There are exceptions to every rule and I'm not trying to disparage anyone specifically. I don't blame anyone for accepting the invitation. This is a rebuke of how Zos operates.

I subscribe to Deltia's channel, I like his content, and his personality. But I don't like him as a representative of ESO players.

If you like their videos, that's fine. If you run their builds, that's great. If you think I'm full of crap, that's okay. And Zos can invite whoever they want on a sleepover.
But, if you've ever wondered why this game is balanced around the top 1% of players and the roleplayers being bought off with mount reskins with everyone in the middle ignored, THIS IS WHY.

[Edit to remove mention of moderator actions and political references]

Who did you want them to pick and how did you want them chosen?

The game is not balanced around the 1% of players. Most inaccurate line of a lot of inaccuracies in your post. You don't watch the content or don't understand what they've said.

Your reasons provided are terrible.. Saying they cheat, or don't fight good players. Get real.

bowmanz607

FENGRUSH wrote: »

willlienellson wrote: »

ZOS Focuses way too much on the feedback of elite "celebrity" gamers while they roundly ignore player consensus and feedback on the forums as a matter of course. It's a problem.
Original Post Below:
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Apparently, right now, a select elite of ESO youtubers like Sypher and Deltia, etc are meeting in person with Zenimax after being invited to the headquarters.

While these youtubers provide a service with their content, they hardly represent the ESO player base neither formally nor informally. They most often represent each other. They represent a micro-industry that operates along side ESO. If anything in-game, they represent a small minority of elite guilds that don't experience ESO like the rest of us and are not good representatives.

Please allow me to explain and provide examples.

PvP: I'm not suggesting any of the specific youtubers or "celebrity players" cheat (although some do and have been banned for it), but they also don't experience playing against cheating, or even against OP players, in the same way. Members of this class of ESO players avoid combat with each other. Many of the known cheaters in this game belong to the same guilds as these elite celebrity ESO players. That doesn't mean the celebrity youtubers are cheating, but it usually means the cheaters don't fight against them. This results in this group having an unrealistically casual viewpoint on cheating as something more benign than it is.

Exploits/Secrets: And exploiting game glitches is the cousin of cheating. Things that aren't working as intended, but are unlikely to get you banned, are passed around as open-secrets within the group and become staples of builds, but are not shared publicly because they don't want them fixed.

Here are two examples of fixed exploits that people weren't getting banned for, that I think I can provide since they no longer work.

1) You could double enchant Flanking Set jewelry with a total of 6 jewelry glyphs instead of 3.
2) You could glitch out Hist Bark set to give a dodge bonus even after you took the set off.

So while you were making the hard choices about how to enchant your jewelry, some players were not. When you were spending 3000 stamina to cast Shuffle, or wearing 5 pieces of Hist Bark, others were dodging with neither.

I'm not accusing anyone of doing these things, but I know the people who did do these things are embedded within that small community. So, at it's most benign, this colors the feedback and impressions of the players in that community which are passed on to Zos as apparently about the only feedback they are actually interested in.

Powercreep: Even if none of the youtube celebrity player cheat, or exploit, or take advantage of tricks....the higher ceiling of performance that is enjoyed on average in these communities is exacerbating the power creep problem in this game. Members of this sector of the community are always the first to say, "This game offers me no challenge. VMA is too easy. This is too easy. That is too easy".

Balancing: Their opinion of balance rarely reflects the community because they rarely face players utilizing abilities to their maximum effectiveness due to the fact that players within this class avoid fighting each other. This is the only game I've ever played where friends cannot play against each other. I've had several of the people I consider members of this niche group actually tell me point blank, "Friends don't kill each other in PvP. I'll give you a pass and you give me a pass. Stop fighting against me or I'm taking you off friends list".

Instead of two great players with great builds fighting each other and learning that certain abilities are indeed out of balance, they pass by each other, high-fiving one another as they farm the pugs from each others alliances and convince themselves that the game is perfectly balanced but THEY are individually "Gods of PvP".
These players don't have experiences in the game that would allow them to adequately represent the larger player base.

The resources were used to have this elite youtube gathering session at Zenimax would have been better spent reading the forums, selecting a few issues with broad community consensus, and then having an internal meeting on how to best address those concerns. But that's too much to hope for.

Yes, I'm painting with a broad brush. There are exceptions to every rule and I'm not trying to disparage anyone specifically. I don't blame anyone for accepting the invitation. This is a rebuke of how Zos operates.

I subscribe to Deltia's channel, I like his content, and his personality. But I don't like him as a representative of ESO players.

If you like their videos, that's fine. If you run their builds, that's great. If you think I'm full of crap, that's okay. And Zos can invite whoever they want on a sleepover.
But, if you've ever wondered why this game is balanced around the top 1% of players and the roleplayers being bought off with mount reskins with everyone in the middle ignored, THIS IS WHY.

[Edit to remove mention of moderator actions and political references]

Who did you want them to pick and how did you want them chosen?

The game is not balanced around the 1% of players. Most inaccurate line of a lot of inaccuracies in your post. You don't watch the content or don't understand what they've said.

Your reasons provided are terrible.. Saying they cheat, or don't fight good players. Get real.

Watch it feng, your about to get hit with the typical forum response...."your one of them, so your biased and what you say doesn't matter" haha

Anyone who disagrees are just Lars that don't know anything and are part of the minority of players. I mean op got so many agrees so that is representative of the majority of players I suppose.

hamgatan

FENGRUSH wrote: »

Your reasons provided are terrible.. Saying they cheat, or don't fight good players. Get real.

just because YOU don't cheat doesn't mean others aren't. i know you don't because i recall a time on Haderus where myself and two other EP guys wiped you and your entire group of about a dozen on top of the Alessia Bridge. i'm not an elite player either.. if i get more than ten hours into a week that's a good week.

i'm not going to name any names because i did that earlier in the thread and it got snipped aggressively. all i'm going to say though is that bans don't get handed out by mistake. however backtracking on those bans because that player has a rather large influence because of their follower-base is hypocrisy at its worst. some players still remain banned for far less.. but i'd better stop talking about disciplinary action before that gets snipped by the censor-monster too.

Mojomonkeyman

Didnt read through the entire thread, who was picked from EU to support with insights?

speeez

"The problem with making assumptions is that we believe that they are the truth. We make an assumption, we misunderstand, we take it personally, then we react by sending emotional poison with our word. This creates a whole big drama for nothing."

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MissBizz

Mojomonkeyman wrote: »

Didnt read through the entire thread, who was picked from EU to support with insights?

@Mojomonkeyman I know Alcast went and one other.. but I don't know of the other has spoken about going so I won't name them

It's up to the people going if they want to make it public knowledge, so we don't necessarily know who is all there and from where.

willlienellson

FENGRUSH wrote: »

You don't watch the content.

That's correct. I play the content.

willlienellson

bowmanz607 wrote: »

I mean op got so many agrees so that is representative of the majority of players I suppose.

Oh please. I only bring up the number of people agreeing with me in response to being treated like some lone random jealous guy who just wanted to visit wonderful sunny baltimore.

I would believe what I wrote if I didn't get a single agree. But I did get a lot. So, for people to simply wave off all the criticism is pretty foolish. That's the point.

willlienellson

VelociousLegend wrote: »

And as already mentioned, this has been going on - just not publicly announced.

Considering the state of the game, "business as usual" is hardly justification for repeating the process.

BuggeX

JinMori wrote: »

BuggeX wrote: »

Ron_Burgundy_79 wrote: »

BuggeX wrote: »

Ron_Burgundy_79 wrote: »

BuggeX wrote: »

Ron_Burgundy_79 wrote: »

Is there any chance you'll point out how bad magplar solo pvp will be now that we lost the blazing spear cc? It would also be awesome if you could point out how worthless a disorient is (luminous shards) on a class that uses multiple dots to buff up (reflective light & entropy).

Thanks,

A biased/non-jealous solo magplar

no offence, mplare doesnt Need a stun, such us mdk doesnt Need a execute or a sorc a heal.
no class should have anything nor should be the same.

you know how mdk sux in solo pvp without a execute?

and btw, you could still use vulcanic rune, its most likly the exact same skill, it just doesnt has the stam syn, but as you Play solo you dont Need it

1. Every class needs a cc. It's the the only way to burst a opponent or stop an opponents pressure, assuming that opponent is a good player.
2. Volcanic rune is a pathetic replacement for a core skill needed to defend Wrobel's vision of the templar house. It is telegraphed like blazing spear, but the rune takes a moment to appear on the ground. Blazing spear gave templars access to a passive in the Aedric Spear skill line that allows templars to block 10% more physical damage. Blazing spear also procs burning light. Most importantly, blazing spear is a much more effective cc than volcanic rune when fighting/kiting multiple opponents.
3. No offense, but ignorance is no excuse to spout off about a topic that you know little about.

huehueheu

any class Needs axecute. to execute said ppls that are low health and Needs to be finished before they can purg all dmg or shild them up to 30k shilds.



oh wait



blazing spear where broken. any tick could stun you, also while roll doging or weapon swaping.

1. False. Ive solo'ed without radiant as often as I have. CC then burst. It's that simple.
2. False. Blazing spear cc's one player on impact given that player is in the cc radius, is not CC immune, and not blocking. It will go through dodge roll which is what makes it superior to aroura javelin.

Class dismissed.

as i said, it was broken. the Impact doesnt stun if you block at this time. the next possible tick once you releas block (on weapon swap or rolldoge) you will be stunned no matter what.

and i also said you still have cc. you Need a cc? you have plenty cc.
i still dont have Access to any execute beside ultis or a weed proced noodle

You should probably take a look at sypher latest video on magicka dk, and magicka dk doesn't need an execute that would make them op as ***.

i prolly Play longer mDK and have tested more Things on mDK than your prissed Sypher.

and you will never kill any decent sorc or temp, never ever. impossible to get enought burst

BuggeX

Ron_Burgundy_79 wrote: »

BuggeX wrote: »

Ron_Burgundy_79 wrote: »

BuggeX wrote: »

Ron_Burgundy_79 wrote: »

BuggeX wrote: »

Ron_Burgundy_79 wrote: »

Is there any chance you'll point out how bad magplar solo pvp will be now that we lost the blazing spear cc? It would also be awesome if you could point out how worthless a disorient is (luminous shards) on a class that uses multiple dots to buff up (reflective light & entropy).

Thanks,

A biased/non-jealous solo magplar

no offence, mplare doesnt Need a stun, such us mdk doesnt Need a execute or a sorc a heal.
no class should have anything nor should be the same.

you know how mdk sux in solo pvp without a execute?

and btw, you could still use vulcanic rune, its most likly the exact same skill, it just doesnt has the stam syn, but as you Play solo you dont Need it

1. Every class needs a cc. It's the the only way to burst a opponent or stop an opponents pressure, assuming that opponent is a good player.
2. Volcanic rune is a pathetic replacement for a core skill needed to defend Wrobel's vision of the templar house. It is telegraphed like blazing spear, but the rune takes a moment to appear on the ground. Blazing spear gave templars access to a passive in the Aedric Spear skill line that allows templars to block 10% more physical damage. Blazing spear also procs burning light. Most importantly, blazing spear is a much more effective cc than volcanic rune when fighting/kiting multiple opponents.
3. No offense, but ignorance is no excuse to spout off about a topic that you know little about.

huehueheu

any class Needs axecute. to execute said ppls that are low health and Needs to be finished before they can purg all dmg or shild them up to 30k shilds.



oh wait



blazing spear where broken. any tick could stun you, also while roll doging or weapon swaping.

1. False. Ive solo'ed without radiant as often as I have. CC then burst. It's that simple.
2. False. Blazing spear cc's one player on impact given that player is in the cc radius, is not CC immune, and not blocking. It will go through dodge roll which is what makes it superior to aroura javelin.

Class dismissed.

as i said, it was broken. the Impact doesnt stun if you block at this time. the next possible tick once you releas block (on weapon swap or rolldoge) you will be stunned no matter what.

It was not broken. You obviously don't know how to block or move out of a red circle. I don't remember the last time someone actually cc'ed me with blazing spear. If you can't manage to do either of those 2 things, then it's a you problem, not a blazing spear problem.

you can still test it with the new spear, let a temp cast it on you while you block, then randmom weapon swap or rolldog and you will be stunned

StackonClown

SirAndy wrote: »

SirAndy wrote: »

This is hardly anything new and has been happening on a regular basis since beta.
The only difference is that this time ZOS opted to make this public.

Just making sure this doesn't get lost in all the drivel ...

So why make it public? I don't see how it helps - apart from the pyramid marketing style effect it will have later.
A few people on here have said ZOS never said these players represent the community etc - then don't mention it at all?

But to announce this to the community is attempting to imply that either the community is indeed represented or will benefit somehow.

In the mean time, ZOS does indeed solicit feedback on the forums ALL the time - Just check all the 'Official feedback thread for <insert here>' threads. But how often do we see them either ignore dozens of pages of feedback or do the exact opposite. Then why bother - just do whatever...

The thing that I'm a bit surprised by is Zeni not really focusing on fixing serious issues like botting, exploits etc.

ZOS gave away $1 million about a year ago to whoever - couldn't they have hired like 10 people with that to 'playtest' 24/7 to help resolve some of these issues. So obviously no issue with cash or funds ??

Also, once these guys/gals leave Zeni, will they all be comfortable to criticize Zeni anymore for the dumb things that they do?

A LOT of people complained about Crown crates, including some of the so called 'famous streamers' - will the people visiting Zeni speak up about the 'money grab' or keep their peace for fear of 'not being invited next time'...

How about all the complaining about RNG ??
Will the crew visiting Zeni be able to get Zeni to drop training/prosperous monster drops?
But if Zeni says 'err, our business model is to make you grind forever, otherwise you will quit the game' - then good luck with the feed back.

To me this whole thing seems to be a mix of 2nd tier marketing by buddying up with known players (very good players at that) that have a profile and also buying their silence at least for a while.

Dont bite the hand that feeds you - come to mind ?

TLDR - Hi Zeni instead of focusing on some 'theory crafters' - just fix the bugs, exploits, lag and other major issues...

[Deleted User]

The user and all related content has been deleted.

willlienellson

Spectral_Lord wrote: »

And all those agrees on your OP are barely 1% too. So to say it holds more merit than what streamers have said throughout the years since ESO's release is laughable at best.

I never said that. The way you argue is ridiculous. You're intellectually dishonest as a matter of course.

willlienellson

StackonClown wrote: »

ZOS gave away $1 million about a year ago to whoever - couldn't they have hired like 10 people with that to 'playtest' 24/7 to help resolve some of these issues..

The whole post is brilliant, but this line is especially on point.

Zos is so desperate for "free marketing" that they give undue influence to these streamers while constantly ignoring a mountain of feedback, but it's unnecessary because they have a massive marketing budget.

They have the money to buy Super Bowl Ads. They have the money to give away $1 million bucks.

It's as if all they care about is new players and don't care at all about player retention.

I feel like 99% of all meetings in wonderful sunny Baltimore are marketing meetings.

So, I'll say again what I said before: If this is marketing, it's failed marketing.

Failed because it's not very good. Failed because the cost of biased creative input is too high. And Failed because they don't need it with the tons of other marketing they do.

ZOS: Mountains of marketing. Mountains of feedback ignored.

StackonClown

FENGRUSH wrote: »

Who did you want them to pick and how did you want them chosen?

Pick for what purpose?

> Feedback - plenty already everywhere, including these forums
> Testing - Just pay for full time testers ? but doesnt zeni already have those?
> Honest but constructive criticism - anyone who doesn't have a vested interest....
> Theory crafting - this is easy.. the DEV who coded the gear is already the best theorycrafter there is.. so nothing is needed here.
> Demo-ing known exploits and other unexpected behaviour - someone like Zazeer - which led to some action in fixing the exploits

But if the purpose is to visit to meet the devs and reward some people for dedication or just being 'gud', then yeah, pick whoever -AND - don't announce it.. [edited to add last part of sentence]

Actually I wanted them to pick Andy.S

StackonClown

Deltia wrote: »

With all that's going on in the world and you're worried about this? Jealous man, smh.

I play ESO, a *video* game about 4-5 hours a week.
This is an indulgence of the highest kind.

But I dont:

- make my own builds for ESO
- make my own videos for ESO
- have my own website for ESO
- spend maybe close to a working week *playing' this video game
- probably run vMA and other vet content hundreds and hundreds of times

To quote you back to yourself, 'With all that's going on in the world' - how much time and effort are you dedicating to what is a digital toy - or is all this something more than just a game for you ?

MakoFore

well as i said- I'm happy fengrush and deltia, and alcast are there to rep me. they've blasted the game, supported the game- been fair throughout. most of all they've done good things for the community. i know they loe the game and just want whats best for all gamers- and for the longevity and welfare of the gaming community. so whats wrong with that?

JinMori

BuggeX wrote: »

JinMori wrote: »

BuggeX wrote: »

Ron_Burgundy_79 wrote: »

BuggeX wrote: »

Ron_Burgundy_79 wrote: »

BuggeX wrote: »

Ron_Burgundy_79 wrote: »

Is there any chance you'll point out how bad magplar solo pvp will be now that we lost the blazing spear cc? It would also be awesome if you could point out how worthless a disorient is (luminous shards) on a class that uses multiple dots to buff up (reflective light & entropy).

Thanks,

A biased/non-jealous solo magplar

no offence, mplare doesnt Need a stun, such us mdk doesnt Need a execute or a sorc a heal.
no class should have anything nor should be the same.

you know how mdk sux in solo pvp without a execute?

and btw, you could still use vulcanic rune, its most likly the exact same skill, it just doesnt has the stam syn, but as you Play solo you dont Need it

1. Every class needs a cc. It's the the only way to burst a opponent or stop an opponents pressure, assuming that opponent is a good player.
2. Volcanic rune is a pathetic replacement for a core skill needed to defend Wrobel's vision of the templar house. It is telegraphed like blazing spear, but the rune takes a moment to appear on the ground. Blazing spear gave templars access to a passive in the Aedric Spear skill line that allows templars to block 10% more physical damage. Blazing spear also procs burning light. Most importantly, blazing spear is a much more effective cc than volcanic rune when fighting/kiting multiple opponents.
3. No offense, but ignorance is no excuse to spout off about a topic that you know little about.

huehueheu

any class Needs axecute. to execute said ppls that are low health and Needs to be finished before they can purg all dmg or shild them up to 30k shilds.



oh wait



blazing spear where broken. any tick could stun you, also while roll doging or weapon swaping.

1. False. Ive solo'ed without radiant as often as I have. CC then burst. It's that simple.
2. False. Blazing spear cc's one player on impact given that player is in the cc radius, is not CC immune, and not blocking. It will go through dodge roll which is what makes it superior to aroura javelin.

Class dismissed.

as i said, it was broken. the Impact doesnt stun if you block at this time. the next possible tick once you releas block (on weapon swap or rolldoge) you will be stunned no matter what.

and i also said you still have cc. you Need a cc? you have plenty cc.
i still dont have Access to any execute beside ultis or a weed proced noodle

You should probably take a look at sypher latest video on magicka dk, and magicka dk doesn't need an execute that would make them op as ***.

i prolly Play longer mDK and have tested more Things on mDK than your prissed Sypher.

and you will never kill any decent sorc or temp, never ever. impossible to get enought burst

Well if you really did, then you would have the same results, which means that you either did not, or you are not as good as a player.

StackonClown

MakoFore wrote: »

well as i said- I'm happy fengrush and deltia, and alcast are there to rep me. they've blasted the game, supported the game- been fair throughout. most of all they've done good things for the community. i know they loe the game and just want whats best for all gamers- and for the longevity and welfare of the gaming community. so whats wrong with that?

How is anyone representing you?
Have you given them direct feedback to relay on to ZOS?
What are your main concerns and how can these players help to get them addressed?

How do you mean support the game? buying crowns, subbing? or just 'liking the game' by playing for hours and hours.

FENGRUSH

willlienellson wrote: »

FENGRUSH wrote: »

You don't watch the content.

That's correct. I play the content.

That's all you had for those questions.. a witty reply on one of them. Looks like you're here just to complain.

Maybe zos can do a lottery for who comes next time so you'll have a shot along with everyone else. That will certainly fill the agenda well.

willlienellson

FENGRUSH wrote: »

That's all you had for those questions..

You only wrote one question. Singular.

"Who did you want them to pick and how did you want them chosen?"

And that was answered BOTH in the original post and maybe a dozen times since then. Nobody. The answer is nobody.

In general though, I gave as much of a thoughtful reply as you gave my OP.

But it's actually a very telling exchange...
"You don't watch the content or don't understand what they've said."
To which I replied, "Correct. I play the content".

What a great example of why you guys should not be "representing" the community when you expect us to base our opinions off of your analysis. That's the opposite of representation.

Riga_Mortis

Didnt one of these streamers friends get banned for the flying crit rush glitch, but the streamer didnt and he even said on steeam that he was unbannale

FENGRUSH wrote: »

willlienellson wrote: »

ZOS Focuses way too much on the feedback of elite "celebrity" gamers while they roundly ignore player consensus and feedback on the forums as a matter of course. It's a problem.
Original Post Below:
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Apparently, right now, a select elite of ESO youtubers like Sypher and Deltia, etc are meeting in person with Zenimax after being invited to the headquarters.

While these youtubers provide a service with their content, they hardly represent the ESO player base neither formally nor informally. They most often represent each other. They represent a micro-industry that operates along side ESO. If anything in-game, they represent a small minority of elite guilds that don't experience ESO like the rest of us and are not good representatives.

Please allow me to explain and provide examples.

PvP: I'm not suggesting any of the specific youtubers or "celebrity players" cheat (although some do and have been banned for it), but they also don't experience playing against cheating, or even against OP players, in the same way. Members of this class of ESO players avoid combat with each other. Many of the known cheaters in this game belong to the same guilds as these elite celebrity ESO players. That doesn't mean the celebrity youtubers are cheating, but it usually means the cheaters don't fight against them. This results in this group having an unrealistically casual viewpoint on cheating as something more benign than it is.

Exploits/Secrets: And exploiting game glitches is the cousin of cheating. Things that aren't working as intended, but are unlikely to get you banned, are passed around as open-secrets within the group and become staples of builds, but are not shared publicly because they don't want them fixed.

Here are two examples of fixed exploits that people weren't getting banned for, that I think I can provide since they no longer work.

1) You could double enchant Flanking Set jewelry with a total of 6 jewelry glyphs instead of 3.
2) You could glitch out Hist Bark set to give a dodge bonus even after you took the set off.

So while you were making the hard choices about how to enchant your jewelry, some players were not. When you were spending 3000 stamina to cast Shuffle, or wearing 5 pieces of Hist Bark, others were dodging with neither.

I'm not accusing anyone of doing these things, but I know the people who did do these things are embedded within that small community. So, at it's most benign, this colors the feedback and impressions of the players in that community which are passed on to Zos as apparently about the only feedback they are actually interested in.

Powercreep: Even if none of the youtube celebrity player cheat, or exploit, or take advantage of tricks....the higher ceiling of performance that is enjoyed on average in these communities is exacerbating the power creep problem in this game. Members of this sector of the community are always the first to say, "This game offers me no challenge. VMA is too easy. This is too easy. That is too easy".

Balancing: Their opinion of balance rarely reflects the community because they rarely face players utilizing abilities to their maximum effectiveness due to the fact that players within this class avoid fighting each other. This is the only game I've ever played where friends cannot play against each other. I've had several of the people I consider members of this niche group actually tell me point blank, "Friends don't kill each other in PvP. I'll give you a pass and you give me a pass. Stop fighting against me or I'm taking you off friends list".

Instead of two great players with great builds fighting each other and learning that certain abilities are indeed out of balance, they pass by each other, high-fiving one another as they farm the pugs from each others alliances and convince themselves that the game is perfectly balanced but THEY are individually "Gods of PvP".
These players don't have experiences in the game that would allow them to adequately represent the larger player base.

The resources were used to have this elite youtube gathering session at Zenimax would have been better spent reading the forums, selecting a few issues with broad community consensus, and then having an internal meeting on how to best address those concerns. But that's too much to hope for.

Yes, I'm painting with a broad brush. There are exceptions to every rule and I'm not trying to disparage anyone specifically. I don't blame anyone for accepting the invitation. This is a rebuke of how Zos operates.

I subscribe to Deltia's channel, I like his content, and his personality. But I don't like him as a representative of ESO players.

If you like their videos, that's fine. If you run their builds, that's great. If you think I'm full of crap, that's okay. And Zos can invite whoever they want on a sleepover.
But, if you've ever wondered why this game is balanced around the top 1% of players and the roleplayers being bought off with mount reskins with everyone in the middle ignored, THIS IS WHY.

[Edit to remove mention of moderator actions and political references]

Who did you want them to pick and how did you want them chosen?

The game is not balanced around the 1% of players. Most inaccurate line of a lot of inaccuracies in your post. You don't watch the content or don't understand what they've said.

Your reasons provided are terrible.. Saying they cheat, or don't fight good players. Get real.

Just want to address the cheating part of your comment, account sharing and the crit rush exploit to enter keeps come to mind, done live on air by streamers aswell. Didnt you yourself say after your friend was banned for the crit rush exploit, that you are unbannable because you are a streamer. The account sharing streamer should of been perma banned for that one.

raasdal

Yes. Let's get noobs and RP'ers to ZOS HQ so they can really test the *** out of bow light attack, and all the new OP emotes they are playtesting. We would not want it to be some of the players that play the game the most, and at the highest level. No no. Let's get mr. average Joe to give some feedback. Or maybe better - let's not do it at all. No - it is much better to be able to complain day and night about how ZOS ignores their playerbase completely. For if they cannot invite EVERYONE to their HQ, NO ONE should go. That's what we learned in kindergarden right?

Let's face it; No matter what ZOS do, some Douchenozzle will find it offensive, "too much" or something else...

bitels

I wonder if you are also angry when any gaming company do closed beta test?
They want feedback from closed group of players and they want them to test thing in controlled offline environment- thats it.