WRONG FEEDBACK SOURCE Streamers don't represent most players

willlienellson · March 2017

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

A could of the ideas he posted in that PTS thread are worthy of consideration though not all of them.

Why do you feel entitled to decide what is worthy of consideration? Why do you think your opinion is more valuable than that of everyone else.?

idk · March 2017

willlienellson wrote: »

Giles.floydub17_ESO

Why do you quote me, to give me a notification, and then talk to someone else about me referencing me in the 3rd person? Nobody does this but you. You continue to be one of the most obnoxious trolls I've ever encountered.

You're like a method actor troll. You're the Daniel Day Lewis of trolls. It's so obscure, so obtuse, and so completely free of any meta acknowledgement. At least I hope you're trolling, because the alternative is sad.

I had you ignored for the longest time, but I gave up. Because almost every day, multiple times a day, I get notifications of you trolling my posts and threads. FML

Lol.

I answered someone else's question and replied to your post with real comments. Since you have no logical or rational reply to what I said you call me a troll in an apparent attempt to try to discredit me.

Have a great day.

willlienellson · March 2017

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

replied to your post with real comments.

That would be your talking ABOUT ME in the 3rd person? Addressing me as "OP" and "he"?
That's you replying TO me? FFS, man.

Have a super splendid wonderful amazing outstanding beautiful profoundly joyous day buddy!

Ron_Burgundy_79 · March 2017

Dark_Aether · March 2017

willlienellson wrote: »

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

A could of the ideas he posted in that PTS thread are worthy of consideration though not all of them.

Why do you feel entitled to decide what is worthy of consideration? Why do you think your opinion is more valuable than that of everyone else.?

Wait, I feel like you should ask yourself that question. Isn't the point of your thread to question the worth of streamers' opinion?

Turelus · March 2017

willlienellson you get notifications because this is your thread, not because people are quoting or talking directly to you.

Also it's fine for people to talk about you, they have the right to post constructive criticism like what was posted.

You seem very fast to attack others and then switch the blame to attacks being on you, this has been an interested debate in this thread and I am enjoying talking with people even if I disagree with them.

idk · March 2017

willlienellson wrote: »

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

replied to your post with real comments.

That would be your talking ABOUT ME in the 3rd person? Addressing me as "OP" and "he"?
That's you replying TO me? FFS, man.

Have a super splendid wonderful amazing outstanding beautiful profoundly joyous day buddy!

You call me a troll for making actual comments yet for two replies in a row you say nothing of any value. Who's the troll? Lol.

willlienellson · March 2017

Ron_Burgundy_79 wrote: »

Wait, I feel like you should ask yourself that question. Isn't the point of your thread to question the worth of streamers' opinion?

No. It's to question why their opinion is being valued MORE than ours. That's not to imply it's not worth anything. It's to question someone else's (Zos') judgement that theirs is more valuable.

willlienellson · March 2017

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

willlienellson wrote: »

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

replied to your post with real comments.

That would be your talking ABOUT ME in the 3rd person? Addressing me as "OP" and "he"?
That's you replying TO me? FFS, man.

Have a super splendid wonderful amazing outstanding beautiful profoundly joyous day buddy!

You call me a troll for making actual comments yet for two replies in a row you say nothing of any value. Who's the troll? Lol.

You. You are the troll.

Turelus · March 2017

willlienellson wrote: »

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

willlienellson wrote: »

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

replied to your post with real comments.

That would be your talking ABOUT ME in the 3rd person? Addressing me as "OP" and "he"?
That's you replying TO me? FFS, man.

Have a super splendid wonderful amazing outstanding beautiful profoundly joyous day buddy!

You call me a troll for making actual comments yet for two replies in a row you say nothing of any value. Who's the troll? Lol.

You. You are the troll.

I think the both of you should use a Pledge of Mara then get a room and make little troll babies. You'll both be much more relaxed then.

cbaudersub17_ESO · March 2017

Turelus wrote: »

willlienellson wrote: »

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

willlienellson wrote: »

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

replied to your post with real comments.

That would be your talking ABOUT ME in the 3rd person? Addressing me as "OP" and "he"?
That's you replying TO me? FFS, man.

Have a super splendid wonderful amazing outstanding beautiful profoundly joyous day buddy!

You call me a troll for making actual comments yet for two replies in a row you say nothing of any value. Who's the troll? Lol.

You. You are the troll.

I think the both of you should use a Pledge of Mara then get a room and make little troll babies. You'll both be much more relaxed then.

That can cost half. Better to given them 100 gold each and find that slutty Bosmer on the corner. The Rift alone has plenty orphaned trolls to adopt. Same result, but less risk.

Oompuh · March 2017

Who. TF. Necro'd. This. Thread.

willlienellson · March 2017

Turelus wrote: »

willlienellson you get notifications because this is your thread, not because people are quoting or talking directly to you.

FFS, he did quote me. Post #690 That's what he does. He nitpicks little obscure nothings and then talks about people in the 3rd person. He's a passive-aggressive troll.

Go back and read pages 15-16 of this thread. It's not a new phenomena.

Consider the following post:

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

Oh, I seriously doubt @willlienellson will answer the question I presented this morning to attempt to justify his comments here. I eiok be interesting to see him try.

This is what I mean. He wasn't talking to anyone else. Just a comment out in space. This wasn't part of a conversation with another person. It just seems that way. It's just written as if he's having a conversation with a 3rd person, but there wasn't one.

He kept asking the same absolutely stupid question over and over again even after I answered it directly, and so finally he starts writing AS IF he's part of a group of people asking the question.

He's always either posting several times a day, or quoting me, so my notification box explodes with his name even after I ignored him.

As soon as someone inexplicably revived this thread, it began again.

[Deleted User] · March 2017

The user and all related content has been deleted.

ZOS_JohanaB · March 2017

As the conversation of this thread in not constructive we will be closing it. Baiting and trolling are against the community rules and as this thread has both it's seem to have run its course. In the future please allow your post o be civil and constructive while following the community rules.

ZOS_RichLambert · March 2017

Just real quick before this thread gets closed... (sorry Johana)

Forum feedback is a huge part of our process. While we don't comment on every thread, or act on every suggestion, we do read as many of them as we can and compile the feedback to look for trends / issues. When deciding on fixes / features we have to evaluate each change, assess risk and weigh it against a number of factors such as overall health of the game, balance, other fixes, other features in development...etc. There isn't a magic button to fix issues and most of the time things aren't as simple as they may seem.

Couple other notes from the last few pages of the thread:

willlienellson wrote: »

They could be people that have good scores from inside the game that were asked in-game. They could be people that submitted very helpful feedback inside the game and were invited (wouldn't that be awesome). They could be people from these forums. They could be people from the reddit forums. They could be people selected at random.

I don't know. But I want to know.

Gina touched on this awhile back when we announced the event - we tried to select a very diverse group. We could only bring in 12, so we had to choose carefully. We had a good mix of streamer/non-streamers, some console folks, some PVE-only people and some PVP-only people. We wanted to try and get as many playstyles as possible. The people we chose tended to be the long-time players who had a very strong grasp of combat mechanics and have been able to put that theorycrafting into practice. They were identified either via in-game prowess (top guilds, top PVPers, top build crafters) or via their contributions to the theorycrafting community. (Mechanics posts on the forums, reddit, or other theorycrafting forums.)

We are leaving it up to the individuals to identify themselves. Not everyone is comfortable in the public eye and that is just fine by us. Also, please remember that these folks weren’t the only source of feedback we’ll be considering for Battlegrounds, the Warden class, and upcoming balance changes. They were just the beginning.

Rickter wrote: »

These same individuals are the most vocal on forums, many of them are streamers and many of them occupy the Council of PvPers who have a direct line to ZOS.

Council of PVPers? I know there is a group that wants to start something like that, but it isn't a thing right now and they haven't met with anyone at ZOS to present any feedback.

Rickter wrote: »

But because these celebrity streamers and longtime pvp elite keep brainwashing and flooding the forums with their OPINION of how eso pvp should be and the devs are listening and you see it over and over where changes are made to discourage large groups!!

The changes we've made (increasing damage caps specifically) were made because we didn't like the way groups were fighting. If you have 24 people in a group, all stacking on crown - 18 of those people automatically took 50% less damage from AOE attacks. Groups were using that to their advantage and we wanted superior tactics and group coordination to be more important than a game safety mechanic. We didn't make the change because a "celebrity" asked us to. (And the same can be said for any change we make.) We took feedback, played in Cyrodiil, looked at the numbers, and evaluated what we should and shouldn't do.

Rickter wrote: »

The issue is that the small scale proponents are insisting that theirs is the best way, and unfortunately they do have the ear of the developers. have you heard of hte Council of PVPers? thats actually a thing. its real.

As noted above, it’s not actually a thing. At least not yet. I'd love to have a group like that, but would want to make sure it’s a good cross section of various playstyles. Not just solo- or small-scale, but large-scale groups as well.

Rickter wrote: »

Devs play every day. they are in normal communities (well they go for the ones they heard of) and they are influenced by the players they surround themselves with. @ZOS_RichLambert runs with some really elite PVE guilds, and I fear their influence is negative for him. why? because the 1% does not represent the 99%.

This couldn't be farther from the truth. I actually don't run with really elite PVE guilds - I'm in a couple for feedback purposes (on NA and EU), but it's mostly to read about balance/bug types of things. I don't normally go on runs with them (even though they ask.). I turn down a number of invites to guilds and Discord/TS/Mumble...etc because I want to try and keep a fairly low profile. I love talking with people and hearing their concerns - but no one voice or group of voices is more powerful than another.

When I play PVE content, I actually spend most of my time solo either farming materials/gear, questing or in VMA. When I PVP, I much prefer the larger-group type fights and tend to "zerg surf" when my friends aren't on. When I do group up for both PVE and PVP, it’s either via the LFG tool or I run with a small group of friends who are more generally more casual-type folks.

willlienellson wrote: »

If they had a more responsive relationship with their average players....if they actually listened to the feedback of those average players, then the little Baltimore Sleepover wouldn't be as much of a problem because it would represent a fraction of our constructive communication with Zos instead of the bulk of it. But when they roundly ignore mountains of feedback and broad consensus, then events like that which took place really present a problem.

There's an underlying nugget in here that I do agree with, and that is better communication. We've started taking steps to improve that with our patch notes - specifically the developer notes. It's a small step but we've seen a really big impact on the player community, so we will keep doing it. We will continue trying to improve on this front.

willlienellson wrote: »

Consider this thread: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/313666/11-obvious-flaws-and-11-easy-fixes-housing/p1

52 Insightful, 113 Agree, 45 Awesome.....and almost no arguments within the thread. It represented broad consensus on the PTS and was posted over 30 days before the end of the PTS.

This is actually a really great example of what I stated in my opening comments. We can't comment on every thread and just because a thread is popular, doesn't mean we are going to act on it. This thread has some good ideas, yes, but most of them are very far from "easy" or “quick.”

-rich