Game is unplayable as sorc now

bardx86

Orlacc wrote: »

While you all have been whining, my Sorc has adapted and is doing fine.Adapt or die.

your doing fine and my doing fine are probably on different levels.

Minalan

Lokey0024 wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

Snape, with the six second shields, you just get stunned 4-5 seconds into a shield, and then destroyed before you can break the CC and re-shield.

The reason is the higher armor penetration in this patch with poisons. Your typical enemy is running 5K sharpened weapon, then another 5k on major breach, then 5K on concentration or spell erosion, crushing enchant, minor breach...

Pretty much. You're naked, it adds up to more than light armor can mitigate. Two shots and your dead while stunned and shield less. Two animation cancelled attacks (heavy plus wrecking, etc). Add a nasty Magicka poison for overkill. It's over.

I'm glad you're doing well in PVP, but that's not the rest of our experience. If you're part of a Zerg, you don't get targeted, and You do great. The rest of us get splattered by bow users, and you can't beat a competent Templar or dragon knight 1v1.

@Minalan

So how do the templar, dk and NB not get melted by these attacks in light armor?

The rest of us as you put it, applying to the actual rest of us, not just sorcs, get melted the same way by high pen builds. So how can you counter this? Blocking? Moving out of los? You know, skill. Not just facetanking stupid amounts of damage and expected to live.

@Lokey0024

Templars heal and purge everything.
Nightblades cloak, now they get shields too.
Stam DK's wear heavy armor, reflect, and block everything.

Did I miss anything, or are we all going back to grade school? You have the survival tools.

bardx86

Minalan wrote: »

Lokey0024 wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

Snape, with the six second shields, you just get stunned 4-5 seconds into a shield, and then destroyed before you can break the CC and re-shield.

The reason is the higher armor penetration in this patch with poisons. Your typical enemy is running 5K sharpened weapon, then another 5k on major breach, then 5K on concentration or spell erosion, crushing enchant, minor breach...

Pretty much. You're naked, it adds up to more than light armor can mitigate. Two shots and your dead while stunned and shield less. Two animation cancelled attacks (heavy plus wrecking, etc). Add a nasty Magicka poison for overkill. It's over.

I'm glad you're doing well in PVP, but that's not the rest of our experience. If you're part of a Zerg, you don't get targeted, and You do great. The rest of us get splattered by bow users, and you can't beat a competent Templar or dragon knight 1v1.

@Minalan

So how do the templar, dk and NB not get melted by these attacks in light armor?

The rest of us as you put it, applying to the actual rest of us, not just sorcs, get melted the same way by high pen builds. So how can you counter this? Blocking? Moving out of los? You know, skill. Not just facetanking stupid amounts of damage and expected to live.

@Lokey0024

Templars heal and purge everything.
Nightblades cloak, now they get shields too.
Stam DK's wear heavy armor, reflect, and block everything.

Did I miss anything, or are we all going back to grade school? You have the survival tools.

didn't even mention vigor, lol

Minalan

bardx86 wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

Lokey0024 wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

Snape, with the six second shields, you just get stunned 4-5 seconds into a shield, and then destroyed before you can break the CC and re-shield.

The reason is the higher armor penetration in this patch with poisons. Your typical enemy is running 5K sharpened weapon, then another 5k on major breach, then 5K on concentration or spell erosion, crushing enchant, minor breach...

Pretty much. You're naked, it adds up to more than light armor can mitigate. Two shots and your dead while stunned and shield less. Two animation cancelled attacks (heavy plus wrecking, etc). Add a nasty Magicka poison for overkill. It's over.

I'm glad you're doing well in PVP, but that's not the rest of our experience. If you're part of a Zerg, you don't get targeted, and You do great. The rest of us get splattered by bow users, and you can't beat a competent Templar or dragon knight 1v1.

@Minalan

So how do the templar, dk and NB not get melted by these attacks in light armor?

The rest of us as you put it, applying to the actual rest of us, not just sorcs, get melted the same way by high pen builds. So how can you counter this? Blocking? Moving out of los? You know, skill. Not just facetanking stupid amounts of damage and expected to live.

@Lokey0024

Templars heal and purge everything.
Nightblades cloak, now they get shields too.
Stam DK's wear heavy armor, reflect, and block everything.

Did I miss anything, or are we all going back to grade school? You have the survival tools.

didn't even mention vigor, lol

I didn't really want to go into Stam abilities really. Vigor, purge, shuffle, roll dodge, the whole fighters guild tree, etc.

I don't want to sit here and complain about other classes. They're fine. I am glad you Stam people got the great buffs! Now they're better off than sorcs. Just fix our busted class.

Minalan

LegendaryMage wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

OrphanHelgen wrote: »

Sorcs are still OP but with different build/ gear / setup.
I wont reveal the secret but wait a month and I bet the meta is out there;)

Let me guess: Heavy armor, black rose set, with sword and board to make a block battle-Mage? I've heard people making that work in this meta, especially in an open battle.

Problem is that I can't see 30K Magicka with 2300 spell damage, and no magicka cost reduction winning a resource fight against a Templar or Stam DK. You're missing too much lower Magicka cost and damage, like close to 15-20% less cost reduction. This release also added a 10% cost increase to every spell across the board.

You won't be winning a fight with those stats against a competent opponent, let alone multiple (decently) competent opponents at the same time. You can still have a great time in pvp of course, being a bit more tanky than other sorcerers and all that.

To win fights against top players as a sorcerer, nothing below 40k magicka and 2.5k spell damage should be even considered.

The reason why I used to run 46.5k and 2.5k spell damage is not because I wanted to make an OP character that does tons of damage, but because I needed to find a balance between sustain, damage and survivability to stand toe to toe with some of the best stamina builds out there, which in my opinion are a bit overbuffed with all the recent changes to the game.

@LegendaryMage

I would love to see a video of you playing in open PVP. Sure you're a great duelist, how do you deal with the mess out there?

Lokey0024

Minalan wrote: »

Lokey0024 wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

Snape, with the six second shields, you just get stunned 4-5 seconds into a shield, and then destroyed before you can break the CC and re-shield.

The reason is the higher armor penetration in this patch with poisons. Your typical enemy is running 5K sharpened weapon, then another 5k on major breach, then 5K on concentration or spell erosion, crushing enchant, minor breach...

Pretty much. You're naked, it adds up to more than light armor can mitigate. Two shots and your dead while stunned and shield less. Two animation cancelled attacks (heavy plus wrecking, etc). Add a nasty Magicka poison for overkill. It's over.

I'm glad you're doing well in PVP, but that's not the rest of our experience. If you're part of a Zerg, you don't get targeted, and You do great. The rest of us get splattered by bow users, and you can't beat a competent Templar or dragon knight 1v1.

@Minalan

So how do the templar, dk and NB not get melted by these attacks in light armor?

The rest of us as you put it, applying to the actual rest of us, not just sorcs, get melted the same way by high pen builds. So how can you counter this? Blocking? Moving out of los? You know, skill. Not just facetanking stupid amounts of damage and expected to live.

@Lokey0024

Templars heal and purge everything.
Nightblades cloak, now they get shields too.
Stam DK's wear heavy armor, reflect, and block everything.

Did I miss anything, or are we all going back to grade school? You have the survival tools.

Put on heavy armor and block then. You come off as to butthurt to put together rational arguments so ill leave you with this.

Adapt or move on

LegendaryMage

Minalan wrote: »

LegendaryMage wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

OrphanHelgen wrote: »

Sorcs are still OP but with different build/ gear / setup.
I wont reveal the secret but wait a month and I bet the meta is out there;)

Let me guess: Heavy armor, black rose set, with sword and board to make a block battle-Mage? I've heard people making that work in this meta, especially in an open battle.

Problem is that I can't see 30K Magicka with 2300 spell damage, and no magicka cost reduction winning a resource fight against a Templar or Stam DK. You're missing too much lower Magicka cost and damage, like close to 15-20% less cost reduction. This release also added a 10% cost increase to every spell across the board.

You won't be winning a fight with those stats against a competent opponent, let alone multiple (decently) competent opponents at the same time. You can still have a great time in pvp of course, being a bit more tanky than other sorcerers and all that.

To win fights against top players as a sorcerer, nothing below 40k magicka and 2.5k spell damage should be even considered.

The reason why I used to run 46.5k and 2.5k spell damage is not because I wanted to make an OP character that does tons of damage, but because I needed to find a balance between sustain, damage and survivability to stand toe to toe with some of the best stamina builds out there, which in my opinion are a bit overbuffed with all the recent changes to the game.

@LegendaryMage

I would love to see a video of you playing in open PVP. Sure you're a great duelist, how do you deal with the mess out there?

I'll post some 1vX vids soon, I just need to get into pvp at the right time - either it's too laggy or too empty when I'm playing these days. But basically I just keep myself at range and do damage, then maybe when I see a good opportunity I'll dive in and upset people a bit, but otherwise I just keep to myself, I'm a much less aggressive player nowadays than before. This is nothing to do with the patch, it's just me taking things slow and target practicing at range.

Makkir

ill have two different 1vX builds posted soon. One is built around spell/phys resistances and the other is a bit in line with Legendary's build. I play the latter now and it's the one I am sticking with until next patch. If you can LoS and react to your opponent, then you can play well on a light armor setup. Learn to play to a sorcs strengths, and practice bar swapping and ani-cancelling with a bar swap. This patch is extremely unforgiving to slow reactions on a sorc. My hand stiffens up and it makes long extended fights harder for me, so it's been a challenge for me but I have managed.

Minalan

Makkir wrote: »

ill have two different 1vX builds posted soon. One is built around spell/phys resistances and the other is a bit in line with Legendary's build. I play the latter now and it's the one I am sticking with until next patch. If you can LoS and react to your opponent, then you can play well on a light armor setup. Learn to play to a sorcs strengths, and practice bar swapping and ani-cancelling with a bar swap. This patch is extremely unforgiving to slow reactions on a sorc. My hand stiffens up and it makes long extended fights harder for me, so it's been a challenge for me but I have managed.

@Makkir

Message me your latter build, I'd very much like to see how it works. Because I haven found something that works well enough.

bardx86

Makkir wrote: »

ill have two different 1vX builds posted soon. One is built around spell/phys resistances and the other is a bit in line with Legendary's build. I play the latter now and it's the one I am sticking with until next patch. If you can LoS and react to your opponent, then you can play well on a light armor setup. Learn to play to a sorcs strengths, and practice bar swapping and ani-cancelling with a bar swap. This patch is extremely unforgiving to slow reactions on a sorc. My hand stiffens up and it makes long extended fights harder for me, so it's been a challenge for me but I have managed.

would love to see them as well.

Lucky28

Orlacc wrote: »

While you all have been whining, my Sorc has adapted and is doing fine.Adapt or die.

i would just play magblade. who could potentially be more tanky then sorc (TG) and still not have to sacrifice any DPS.

i mean why play a class that has such limited options in terms of build diversity?.

Makkir

bardx86 wrote: »

Makkir wrote: »

ill have two different 1vX builds posted soon. One is built around spell/phys resistances and the other is a bit in line with Legendary's build. I play the latter now and it's the one I am sticking with until next patch. If you can LoS and react to your opponent, then you can play well on a light armor setup. Learn to play to a sorcs strengths, and practice bar swapping and ani-cancelling with a bar swap. This patch is extremely unforgiving to slow reactions on a sorc. My hand stiffens up and it makes long extended fights harder for me, so it's been a challenge for me but I have managed.

would love to see them as well.

Xvorg

I've been theorycrafting a sorc with pelinal's and dreugh kingslayer, either a bow or DW, using fighter guild skills in the overload bar.

The problem is to find pelinal's in the market, and what to max out (stam or magicka)

cschwingeb14_ESO

NativeJoe wrote: »

Every other class got buffed while ours grew weaker

This is the key takeaway, not just the shield duration nerf. Two large nerfs to sorcs all in one patch, and several mechanics changes that impact sorcs negatively (and also other classes). Varied significant buffs to the 3 other stam classes. And a brand new self shield for the other magicka classes.

Makkir

cschwingeb14_ESO wrote: »

NativeJoe wrote: »

Every other class got buffed while ours grew weaker

This is the key takeaway, not just the shield duration nerf. Two large nerfs to sorcs all in one patch, and several mechanics changes that impact sorcs negatively (and also other classes). Varied significant buffs to the 3 other stam classes. And a brand new self shield for the other magicka classes.

That's one paradigm. I will tag some people to chime in, as I am sure I am not alone in this belief. I bolded some key points. @Cinnamon_Spider @LegendaryMage @Thelon @Hexys @Sypher @Rylana

On the other hand, I also gained two damage shields that absorb BOTH physical and magicka and I have something like 20k shield in Cyrodiil now (without healing ward). This mythical "You will get stunned 5 seconds into your shield and then die" has YET to happen to me. Maybe in 1v1 duel settings that is more practical, but in 1vX it has never happened. By the way, I DO NOT run impen on my armor currently.

IF you are quick to react, bar swap, and aware of your surroundings...we actually got a buff. If you run a penetration build like me, in a lot of 1vX situations my offense is so strong that the other player typically turns on the defensive(or runs) in which case I don't need to be on my resto bar applying shields. If someone gets the jump on you, then you need to make use of LOS and position yourself to apply some pressure to reverse that situation. Learning to swap cancel has been paramount this DLC.


While I agree that we received some nerfs, especially to the PvE side of things, I don't think the class is unplayable. I think it is discouraging to play, un-engaging, and simply boring. I have played a sorc since launch, with zero alts (all my alts were mules and writ grinders). I just started playing a stam DK and a Magplar since my alts are now cp160. They're 100x more engaging than my sorc....that's the problem with the class.

Please be patient with me as I am still putting together footage for the two builds I promised earlier. On the resistance build, I ran combat Prayer on the resto bar. One of my complaints with the class is a lack of a viable class heal post-surge changes. Even with points stacked into Quick Recovery, the "on demand" heal was no where in comparison to BoL. I am not looking to take away from another class's defining skills (also the reason I want Bolt Escape to feel "special"}, but I WAS looking for a viable replacement to sorc shields (I did accomplish this by the way). I mean, I would think after playing some 25+ MMO titles the common logic law here is that the squishiest class should have a strong heal or at least a powerful nuke, likewise the classes with the best mitigation shouldn't be at the top of the DPS ladder.

My point here is the class is currently pigeon holed into running mandatory skills such as a shield. Outside of playing support/heals in group PvP (which a templar is the wiser choice in this instance) you have no reason to slot resto heals as a magicka sorc (except healing ward). I thought precasting rapid regen before heading into a 1vX fight would help but the ticks are so laughable in PvP it's not worth giving up a slot.

Minalan

@Makkir

If you're game for it, message me and share some of what you have, and I'll do the same. I've learned a few tricks to stay alive with the legions of bow-tards out there killing people in 2-3 shots.

I think a problem like this needs a collaborative effort.

Makkir wrote: »

cschwingeb14_ESO wrote: »

NativeJoe wrote: »

Every other class got buffed while ours grew weaker

This is the key takeaway, not just the shield duration nerf. Two large nerfs to sorcs all in one patch, and several mechanics changes that impact sorcs negatively (and also other classes). Varied significant buffs to the 3 other stam classes. And a brand new self shield for the other magicka classes.

That's one paradigm. I will tag some people to chime in, as I am sure I am not alone in this belief. I bolded some key points. @Cinnamon_Spider @LegendaryMage @Thelon @Hexys @Sypher @Rylana

On the other hand, I also gained two damage shields that absorb BOTH physical and magicka and I have something like 20k shield in Cyrodiil now (without healing ward). This mythical "You will get stunned 5 seconds into your shield and then die" has YET to happen to me. Maybe in 1v1 duel settings that is more practical, but in 1vX it has never happened. By the way, I DO NOT run impen on my armor currently.

IF you are quick to react, bar swap, and aware of your surroundings...we actually got a buff. If you run a penetration build like me, in a lot of 1vX situations my offense is so strong that the other player typically turns on the defensive(or runs) in which case I don't need to be on my resto bar applying shields. If someone gets the jump on you, then you need to make use of LOS and position yourself to apply some pressure to reverse that situation. Learning to swap cancel has been paramount this DLC.


While I agree that we received some nerfs, especially to the PvE side of things, I don't think the class is unplayable. I think it is discouraging to play, un-engaging, and simply boring. I have played a sorc since launch, with zero alts (all my alts were mules and writ grinders). I just started playing a stam DK and a Magplar since my alts are now cp160. They're 100x more engaging than my sorc....that's the problem with the class.

Please be patient with me as I am still putting together footage for the two builds I promised earlier. On the resistance build, I ran combat Prayer on the resto bar. One of my complaints with the class is a lack of a viable class heal post-surge changes. Even with points stacked into Quick Recovery, the "on demand" heal was no where in comparison to BoL. I am not looking to take away from another class's defining skills (also the reason I want Bolt Escape to feel "special"}, but I WAS looking for a viable replacement to sorc shields (I did accomplish this by the way). I mean, I would think after playing some 25+ MMO titles the common logic law here is that the squishiest class should have a strong heal or at least a powerful nuke, likewise the classes with the best mitigation shouldn't be at the top of the DPS ladder.

My point here is the class is currently pigeon holed into running mandatory skills such as a shield. Outside of playing support/heals in group PvP (which a templar is the wiser choice in this instance) you have no reason to slot resto heals as a magicka sorc (except healing ward). I thought precasting rapid regen before heading into a 1vX fight would help but the ticks are so laughable in PvP it's not worth giving up a slot.

Cinnamon_Spider

Sorc has become both frustrating and boring to play this patch. I'm feeling like I'm forced to use a certain gear and skill set, while still being less effective than other classes.

I can kill more easily using my Templar than on my sorc. Partly that is because of so many people running Shuffle right now, which causes all of our main attacks to miss. I watched 4 Overloads in a row miss someone the other day without them even bothering to dodge.

My choices right now are to figure out other gearing options and play around with them until I find something I like, or just play another class. So, I've been playing my Templar more and started leveling a DK to play on BWB. But I do want to figure something out for my sorc.

The changes to how animation work aren't helping either. Once I get more used to them, I'm sure I'll adapt, but they're so clunky.

Lokey0024

Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »

Sorc has become both frustrating and boring to play this patch. I'm feeling like I'm forced to use a certain gear and skill set, while still being less effective than other classes

This is how magdks and stam sorcs are. Neglected to make them "unique" or in other words only used in zergs.

And before anyone says anything, a high elf templar can spam wrecking blow with great results. The class abilities are what are suppose to set each other apart. What is a sorc main staple dps. In pvp not pve.

Chilla_Deluxe

95% of the sorcs who couldn't play decently switched yes, My friends still wrecking in pvp after the update with sorcs, learn to sustain as well as re-cast quickly.

Lucky28

Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »

Sorc has become both frustrating and boring to play this patch. I'm feeling like I'm forced to use a certain gear and skill set, while still being less effective than other classes.

I can kill more easily using my Templar than on my sorc. Partly that is because of so many people running Shuffle right now, which causes all of our main attacks to miss. I watched 4 Overloads in a row miss someone the other day without them even bothering to dodge.

My choices right now are to figure out other gearing options and play around with them until I find something I like, or just play another class. So, I've been playing my Templar more and started leveling a DK to play on BWB. But I do want to figure something out for my sorc.

The changes to how animation work aren't helping either. Once I get more used to them, I'm sure I'll adapt, but they're so clunky.

you're doing it all wrong Cinnamon. all you got to do is stand in the back of a zerg and spam mages wrath and toss a negate out there every now and again. that's pretty much what every sorc is now doing.....

Sad days @Cinnamon_Spider sad days.

contact.opiumb16_ESO

Dyride wrote: »

Justice31st wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

They made our shield into a six second damage sponge, to bring it more in line with stam dodge roll and block.

Fair enough. My question now is, where's my breath of life, cloak, or scales?

Stam builds don't just depend on dodge roll to survive. Templars heal to full. Nightblades cloak. And DK's can reflect any projectile. What can sorcs do?

Nothing.

You have shield stacking, streak, and daedric mines. QQ some more.

Streak is pretty garbage since they forced it to travel in direction your character faces and added a 1/2 sec root to the end of the ability. Not to mention it fails to fire or delay fires about 25% of the time.

You used to be able to Streak in the direction your were looking and also retain your momentum after streaking, @wrobel ruined stam sorcs with this change.

Despite any other buff, without reverting this mobility nerf, stam sorcs and sorcs in general will always be a shadow of their former playability.

Just.... lol !

I do play a sorcerer and other classes, sorcerers just used to be imba in pvp. they are now more in line with others

Lucky28

contact.opiumb16_ESO wrote: »

Dyride wrote: »

Justice31st wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

They made our shield into a six second damage sponge, to bring it more in line with stam dodge roll and block.

Fair enough. My question now is, where's my breath of life, cloak, or scales?

Stam builds don't just depend on dodge roll to survive. Templars heal to full. Nightblades cloak. And DK's can reflect any projectile. What can sorcs do?

Nothing.

You have shield stacking, streak, and daedric mines. QQ some more.

Streak is pretty garbage since they forced it to travel in direction your character faces and added a 1/2 sec root to the end of the ability. Not to mention it fails to fire or delay fires about 25% of the time.

You used to be able to Streak in the direction your were looking and also retain your momentum after streaking, @wrobel ruined stam sorcs with this change.

Despite any other buff, without reverting this mobility nerf, stam sorcs and sorcs in general will always be a shadow of their former playability.

Just.... lol !

I do play a sorcerer and other classes, sorcerers just used to be imba in pvp. they are now more in line with others

no they're not. they are way behind other classes now.

holosoul

Lucky28 wrote: »

no they're not. they are way behind other classes now.

he can finally kill his betters (most players on average) so that means they're just right.

bardx86

Chilla_Deluxe wrote: »

95% of the sorcs who couldn't play decently switched yes, My friends still wrecking in pvp after the update with sorcs, learn to sustain as well as re-cast quickly.

dont be stupid, do you have some list of who is decent? who made the cut?

Minalan

Chilla_Deluxe wrote: »

95% of the sorcs who couldn't play decently switched yes, My friends still wrecking in pvp after the update with sorcs, learn to sustain as well as re-cast quickly.

Cool, can we get 95% of the nightblades to switch classes next?

ToRelax

Minalan wrote: »

Chilla_Deluxe wrote: »

95% of the sorcs who couldn't play decently switched yes, My friends still wrecking in pvp after the update with sorcs, learn to sustain as well as re-cast quickly.

Cool, can we get 95% of the nightblades to switch classes next?

As long as they don't roll DK or Templar. Makes noobs harder to kill.

RebornV3x

The shield duration nerf is fine I guess but not having a class spammable for sorcerer is really pissing me off. I don't want to use destro staves I'm probably shelving my sorc solely on that I really liked dual wielding and using trapping webs. I had to totally revamp my build and lost about 500 spell damage because of it and its pretty clear that sorcs are the most underpowered class in PVP atm. DKs just tank damage all day Templars out heal everything and Nightblades have cloak but yet apparently Sorc were overpowered ok sure... thats a joke.
I would be fine if sorcs were like glass cannons as that seems the way the class is headed the fact is we don't hit hard enough to be considered a cannon.

Lokey0024

Exploding pets. I swear this world be awesome and agood replacement for inevitable det being nerfed

Hibbou

people still complaining really need to reroll or adapt... I encountered a lot of sorcs that kicked my ass even if I had the advantage of the first burst

Minalan

Lokey0024 wrote: »

Exploding pets. I swear this world be awesome and agood replacement for inevitable det being nerfed

I think we should do this with 'volatile familiar'. Send the pet in and it explodes for AOE if killed. I would use this pet, and I hate pets.

Hibbou wrote: »

people still complaining really need to reroll or adapt... I encountered a lot of sorcs that kicked my ass even if I had the advantage of the first burst

I never have problems killing sorcs, but then I am one. I know how to time my frags to stun 4-5 seconds into a shield. I know how to time the curse so that it hits when he's stunned with shields down and eating a meteor or a light overload for the instant kill.

I know how to keep up pressure on a sorc, forcing him to block and shield to spend that precious green stamina, then line up for the CC he can't break for the win.

It's not hard. Sometimes I lose, when the RNG gods give him MANY more frag procs, and deny them to me. But for the most part, it's squish.