Game is unplayable as sorc now

holosoul

CamBam370 wrote: »

Stop crying , 6 seconds is a long time in combat.

No it isn't.
Make block/dodge roll magicka based if magicka is your largest stat and remove shields from the game

Thanks

Snape2255

I honestly don't agree with this at all.

The "nerf" to sorc shields ONLY affects PVE. If you're playing PVP it's not much of a bother at all. If you're not reapplying your shield every 5-6 seconds in the first place, the person attacking you IS NOT going to kill you. Simple.

If you feel that this is a nerf in PVP, you're playing your Sorc wrong.

If you feel that this is a nerf in PVE, I can see your point, but you should still be able to adapt.

Yawn.

I main a Magicka Sorc in PVP. If I can adapt, I don't see why you cannot?

In my honest opinion I feel more like we got buffed, with the buff to Harness Magicka. I don't feel like we've been nerfed at all, other than me not being able to shield stack whilst mounting anymore.

Perhaps you should review your build before complaining? If you cannot maintain your shields at the current rate, you've built your Sorc wrong.

holosoul

Snape2255 wrote: »

If you feel that this is a nerf in PVE, I can see your point, but you should still be able to adapt.

I don't feel nerfed in PVE at all, I probably even gained damage.
PVE is too easy and boring, the shield nerf didn't affect it at all unless you have down syndrome and die to red.

Snape2255 wrote: »

I don't feel like we've been nerfed at all, other than me not being able to shield stack whilst mounting anymore.

Need I say more? This statement alone proves you never played a sorc

Snape2255

holosoul wrote: »

Snape2255 wrote: »

I don't feel like we've been nerfed at all, other than me not being able to shield stack whilst mounting anymore.

Need I say more? This statement alone proves you never played a sorc

It's truly adorable how you've been lead to this conclusion. Not only a holosoul, but a holobrain too.

How in any way, shape or form does that statement "prove" I have never played a Sorc? I would be willing to wager that not only do I have more PVP experience on a Sorc, but I also play it to a higher quality than yourself.

If you've actually played a Magicka Sorcerer in a decent level of PVP to a sufficient level you'll find that you're consistently re-applying your shields <6 seconds at a time. The "nerf" hasn't changed this element of PVP conduct whatsoever. In fact they have been buffed due to the addition of another Physical Damage shield (in the form of Harness Magicka).

I apologise that my statement confused you and that you therefore felt the need to retort with some mundane, ill-formed attempt at a comeback but that is no need to try and make a fool of someone else. If you truly wish to try and make a fool out of someone else for something they've said, try to refrain from doing so unto yourself first.

holosoul

Ya whatever, you lost all credibility when you said you shield while travelling mounted.
No one does that, no one ever did that.
That's the most stupid thing I've ever heard and only a salty pure-stamina-player would say that.

Just stop

holosoul

Oh I see, you're a templar

Yes, we know the change to harness was a buff to you with no negative side effect

Snape2255

holosoul wrote: »

Ya whatever, you lost all credibility when you said you shield while travelling mounted.
No one does that, no one ever did that.
That's the most stupid thing I've ever heard and only a salty pure-stamina-player would say that.

Just stop

So you're implying that not only yourself, but EVERY OTHER PLAYER in the EXISTENCE of Elder Scrolls Online: Tamriel Unlimited. Runs around on a MOUNT in PLAYER VS PLAYER areas WITHOUT ANY buffs applied WHATSOEVER. In particular damage shields which are EXTREMELY good at negating damage dealt to quite possibly the SQUISHIEST class in the game?

What you're seriously saying is that out of ALL the players to grace this game, I, Snape2255, am the ONLY player to EVER buff up whilst mounting?

You're cute.

holosoul

You didn't say buffs,
you said, "Shield stack while mounting"

Just stop, templar. Just stop.

Snape2255

holosoul wrote: »

You didn't say buffs,
you said, "Shield stack while mounting"

Just stop, templar. Just stop.

So NOW you're saying that damage shields, which negate and absorb incoming damage, are NOT classed as a buff? A buff which increases your character's output? You mean the way that damage shields increase your character's survivability in the form of giving, per se, "extra health", which could be classed as a "buff". You're saying that damage shields, which do this exact thing, are NOT classed as a buff?

You're also implying that if you had 60% speed on a mount, and it took you roughly 40 seconds to get from one keep to another. You would NOT stop half way to buff up, and then get back on your mount just in case one of the MANY Nightblades lurking around decided to try and gank you. What you're implying is that as a MAGICKA SORC, quite possibly THE SQUISHIEST CLASS without their shields, would not apply their shields despite KNOWING that a Nightblade might knock them off their mount, giving that Nightblade 4 seconds of pure damage before you can get back up, just because "NO ONE APPLIES SHIELDS WHILST MOUNTING, NO ONE HAS EVER DONE THAT". Therefore giving a Nightblade an easy kill because you refuse to buff up whilst mounting?

Next thing you're going to say is you're a Stamina Nightblade who uses Healing Ward.

Please. Entertain me more.

Please, tell me how you've 1vs69'd on your level 10 Stam Sorc.

holosoul

Well considering my mount has max stamina and would still have most of its stamina pool sprinting a 40 second run, and I run radiant magelight, I wouldn't die to an NB opener while mounted and they wouldn't even dismount me before I outranged them

So, L2P

holosoul

next you're gonna tell me you run 7 infused/divines and wonder why you take 20k crits
QQ

Snape2255

holosoul wrote: »

next you're gonna tell me you run 7 infused/divines and wonder why you take 20k crits
QQ

You seem to be under the impression that you can be crit through damage shields.

You also seem to be under the impression that everyone buys 60% in Speed & Stamina on every character. My particular method is: 60 Speed --> 20 Stamina --> 60 Carry Capacity --> 60 Stamina. It is more beneficial to me this way. Or do you not appreciate the extra bag space. Let me guess, you pay £££ to buy more?

Are you going to reply with anything remotely constructive or are you going to continue with your redundant drivel for the rest of the night?

NativeJoe

Snape2255 wrote: »

holosoul wrote: »

next you're gonna tell me you run 7 infused/divines and wonder why you take 20k crits
QQ

You seem to be under the impression that you can be crit through damage shields.

You also seem to be under the impression that everyone buys 60% in Speed & Stamina on every character. My particular method is: 60 Speed --> 20 Stamina --> 60 Carry Capacity --> 60 Stamina. It is more beneficial to me this way. Or do you not appreciate the extra bag space. Let me guess, you pay £££ to buy more?

Are you going to reply with anything remotely constructive or are you going to continue with your redundant drivel for the rest of the night?

I can't believe you guys are honestly trying to argue some logical sense into a harry potter fan.

At anyrate...

Shield nerfs weren't the only thing to hit sorcs.

Sorcs lost 9% spell power verses undead, and daedra.
Magicka sorcs lost access to dawn breaker of smiting.
Every other class got buffed while ours grew weaker.
They removed the only other spammable magick skill from the game. (webs)
They Nerfed the damage on curse by making it no longer considered a dot.
The got rid of the proxy det + curse + frag+dawnbreaker burst combo by weakening proxy, and taking dawnbreaker.
They got rid of burst heals, and gave us a crappy dot heal that is better replaced by mutagens, or really anything else.
Many niche builds became alot harder to play and others phased out of viability.
Shield nerfs made a artificial hole in our defenses so that a CC burst combo can be executed 5 seconds after a cast.
Everything costing more and with the addition of poisons... many of our playstyles where nuked, because going anywhere near a zerg now can get you dotted up with various poisons. it's their own personal proxy det for solo elites.
And I'm sure there are more that im just to tired to remember off the top of my head right now.

But short story is... it's not 1 thing that happened to sorcs, it's the collective and overall persistence of the nerfing adding up thats the problem.

We're already a class strangled by toggles, weapon and ability selection, and a entire tree of passives and skills that only come into affect if we manage to keep a pet alive x.x and slot them on every bar. it is truly death by a thousand cuts.

Our shields heals, and dps are being nerfed and our streak has been all routinely nerfed...

but the recent activity out there has proven something to me. We arn't the kings of mitigation. never where.

I mean just look at this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ex85e6Ur84U taken from pvp on 5/29/2016

yes the guy doing it isn't exactly the reputable type (the exploiter not vanzan)... but my god... at the point he's taking 35 meteors to the face before going down... and You guys are telling me SORCS are the ones that need this nerf?

/facepalm Idk what else to say.

Snape2255

NativeJoe wrote: »

I can't believe you guys are honestly trying to argue some logical sense into a harry potter fan.

Just to clarify; my last name is "Snape", hence my username. It's not due to being a fan of Harry Potter or any of the characters in it. I understand your misconception, but it's just that...a misconception.

Your basis on the "nerf" seems to be Sorc-specific. You're neglecting to note that the removal of Dawnbreaker and the "Slayer" passive also "nerfs" all Magicka classes (and even Stamina to an extent).

Velocious Curse gained extra damage through Thaumaturge to a bug which enabled the passive to still retain the "+Magic Damage" bonus, despite being supposedly changed. The skill, alongside Proxy Det, is not a DoT, it's a burst. If ZOS ever did class it as a Damage Over Time effect they've made a serious blunder as it provides a single burst of damage per cast, not damage over an extended period of time (channel time or no channel time, it's a burst...not a DoT).

I'm unaware of the webs changed, perhaps because I'm not a PVE player, and I've never seen it used in PVP.

Poisons are perhaps an issue as well, but this is an issue for every class not just Sorc-specific.

If you manage your resources well, and are used to the playstyle, you can maintain your shields up constantly. The only sorts of combos that will burst you down are extremely well-timed (on their part) and poorly countered (on your part) Sorc/NB combos.

Of course I cannot speak from a PVE perspective here, and I do appreciate that PVE players will suffer from the shield timer reduction, however from a PVP perspective it really is a minimal change.

I personally run a Sorc with around 45k Max Magicka and 23k Max Health, within two shields I can completely cover my entire health bar blue (this is WITHIN Cyrodiil, which halves my shield strength). I've said this many times in the past and I'll say it again; if a player cannot force me to re-apply my shields every <6 seconds in the first place, they are NOT going to kill me.

The players which I struggle most against are; Stamina Nightblades and EXTREMELY high burst Magicka Sorcs. No other classes give me much of an issue, unless they're ganging up on me. This is true in the past and it is true now. This reduction in timer has changed nothing. This patch has, in fact, given me more mitigation against Stamina classes.

If you're running decent recovery and some good cost reduction you can still manage your resources perfectly fine.

I'm not sure about yourself, but I'm used to re-buffing every <6 seconds already, this patch has only made this mandatory, rather than optional, for survival.

But each to their own, I suppose.

NativeJoe

@Snape2255

If you only play a meta sorc then I can see your point of view. but you must understand that their where and are niche builds that where VERY HEAVILY affected by the changes.

Many of which did not need to constantly expend resources maintaining a shield up constantly. Some like my build actually kept consistent enough pressure up to keep my opponent on the run and playing defensively, verses the alternative.

CC sustain builds like winterborn, and true pet builds, and few others where hit quite hard by this patch.
Webs was used on builds that relied on pure burst and used duel wield for extra spell power verses the overly used crushing shock + frags combo. Advantages being a snare effect, and some players unfamiliar with the skill would allow themselves to be hit 2~4 times before realizing they where under attack.

As for why im referring to Non-sorc specific changes is because it is a over all picture you have to grasp. just like how you and others keep referring to sorcs being buffed by the changes to harness magicka (which isn't a sorc skill btw) are still relevant. like I said, it's not 1 thing that is nuking us and making it far harder to be a sorc, it's multiple things happening all at once.

Your perspective may vary from mine, but I duel, and do small scale pvp. I fight some of the hardest people in the game and I understand from that perspective, greater then most, that sorc shields where never OP, they just required executing some timed maneuvers, burst combos, and sometimes attacking the stamina before you go for the HP. If your hiding in a Zerg, always have supporting heals, or are rocking a meta build...the story may be completely different for you. But that doesn't make everyone elses style of game play and the class as a whole completely fine.

And to be completely fair, I'm willing to duel you on NA server PC if your on this as well. I'll show you that I won't be downing your shield inside 6 seconds or EVER. I'll kill you outright purely by utilizing the artificial hole in your defenses that Zos has put there. Add me /msg ingame, I'm logging in now if you wanna take me up on the challenge

Snape2255

@NativeJoe

I see your point. Admittedly I did not take into consideration obscure builds that relied less heavily on shield stacking/spamming.

I do admit that I consistently stack my shields and spend a hell of a lot of time on my back bar, and I do run what could most likely be considered a meta build. This is mostly due to me enjoying the playstyle. I've always been drawn to that playstyle of Sorcs, but rather than going for raw damage output and harassment I have always been a cautious player (hence why I spend a large amount of time on my back bar), and therefore have gotten used to the constant re-application of shields.

I appreciate where you're coming from, builds that rely less on consistent shield stacking would have been hit significantly hard, particularly ones that benefit from the longer duration of shields in order to dish out more DPS in that gap.

I also saw why you were including changes such a Slayer and Dawnbreaker, despite being a generalisation, I was merely stating that these could still be considered a nerf for all classes (bar stamina with regards to Dawnbreaker).

What I find very interesting about Harness Magicka is that it makes it extremely viable for other Magicka classes now, to the extent where I've been considering popping it on my Templar or Nightblade's bar.

I still do feel that this patch has been a buff to sorcs, but I appreciate that this would be a buff to more generic builds, and that the more obscure setups may have suffered deeply from it. However is there nothing you can do to adjust accordingly to the changes to make the transition smoother?

Some suggestions, which may be welcomed, may not be;

• If running Julianos, you could consider running Kagrenacs instead. You would suffer in Crits but you'd gain some Recovery in its stead to help smooth over the pressure on re-applying shields.
• If you are worried about a drop in Crit, perhaps you could change your Mundus to one which provides more support for crit rate and/or damage? Or you could substitute a skill for Inner Light (providing +10% crit rate).
• If suffering from recovery you could always swap out your mundus for The Atronach. From my experience its generally given me +400-500 recovery.
• Or you could go for an expensive route and try incorporating the Lich Set into your build?

There's a nifty little build planner site you can try different setups on if you'd like to test the waters before transitioning over to other sets/builds if you'd care for a link.

My suggestions may even be useless to you depending on your setup, just thought I'd chip in a few ideas just in case.

Edit: Unfortunately I'm not on your server, if I was I'd be more than happy to have a go

Minalan

Snape, with the six second shields, you just get stunned 4-5 seconds into a shield, and then destroyed before you can break the CC and re-shield.

The reason is the higher armor penetration in this patch with poisons. Your typical enemy is running 5K sharpened weapon, then another 5k on major breach, then 5K on concentration or spell erosion, crushing enchant, minor breach...

Pretty much. You're naked, it adds up to more than light armor can mitigate. Two shots and your dead while stunned and shield less. Two animation cancelled attacks (heavy plus wrecking, etc). Add a nasty Magicka poison for overkill. It's over.

I'm glad you're doing well in PVP, but that's not the rest of our experience. If you're part of a Zerg, you don't get targeted, and You do great. The rest of us get splattered by bow users, and you can't beat a competent Templar or dragon knight 1v1.

Brrrofski

Not had the patch yet for xbox.

I've always put ward on my front bar, always use destro, never used harness (defensive rune instead), never used det, already have 4 bits impen.

So only dawnbreaker change will affect me. Weaving gets you a lot of ult anyway, so will still use ice comet and swap dawnbreaker for negate probably.

Snape2255

Minalan wrote: »

Snape, with the six second shields, you just get stunned 4-5 seconds into a shield, and then destroyed before you can break the CC and re-shield.

The reason is the higher armor penetration in this patch with poisons. Your typical enemy is running 5K sharpened weapon, then another 5k on major breach, then 5K on concentration or spell erosion, crushing enchant, minor breach...

Pretty much. You're naked, it adds up to more than light armor can mitigate. Two shots and your dead while stunned and shield less. Two animation cancelled attacks (heavy plus wrecking, etc). Add a nasty Magicka poison for overkill. It's over.

I'm glad you're doing well in PVP, but that's not the rest of our experience. If you're part of a Zerg, you don't get targeted, and You do great. The rest of us get splattered by bow users, and you can't beat a competent Templar or dragon knight 1v1.

I tend to avoid running in zergs. Generally I don't have that luxury due to being on campaigns that are largely dominated by Red zergs, and I'm an AD player myself.

I see what you mean with the penetration, maybe they'll have to do something about the resistances accrued in light armour. As for the stun towards the end of the shield, I try to maintain a minimum level of stamina. I often weave in heavy attacks with my staves in order to regen stamina for breaking free and dodge rolling and often sit in/around my mines.

If I am going for offense I'll pop an Ice Comet down, if I need it for defense I'll pop my GSA down and sit on/around it.

Stamina has always been an issue, and shields have always been squishy. I appreciate that with the extra penetration it makes your character itself squishier, but keep in mind that shields never had any resistances which means penetration is redundant against them (you'll still be hitting the same). If you can retain enough stamina for consistent CC breaks and you're not getting absolutely spammed to *** with Wrecking Blow it's not as difficult. Against WB spammers I tend to stay within my minefield and if they come close I kite them around it.

I also run a Lightning Staff which helps me get past DKs spamming wings whilst regaining stam on the regular due to heavy attack channel (then when they let their guard down, chuck a proc'd frag in their face with a well-timed velocious curse with it).

It might be worthwhile changing up what food you're running, perhaps going for tri-stat instead of max health/magicka? You'll be dropping 1k or so magicka but gaining 3.5-4k stamina pool for more CC breaks. Consistent heavy attack weaving helps to keep this up.

It might not help you much, but at least it's something that could be considered?

pinchedrug00

Sorcs have mobility, mines, damage shield, and high burst what else can you ask for as a meta sorc? Seems like zos does not like ppl running around with builds that are not cookie cutter

Kas

pinchedrug00 wrote: »

Sorcs have mobility, mines, damage shield, and high burst what else can you ask for as a meta sorc? Seems like zos does not like ppl running around with builds that are not cookie cutter

the burst is fairly low. not terrible, not at all, but nowhere near la-dobs-bash-la-executioner-bash or any combo with assassins will.

sorc's main weakness is health sustain per time casting. n hardened war is still a great shield but does not provide nearly as much hp as one cast of vigor or templar's ritual do. even burning embers and funnel/swallow sould are quite nice in that regard: tons of damage and heal in one cast.

that said, shields are still an incredibly strong i-need-that-protection/life-quickly skill. this is why sorcs NEED to use mines when fighting good enemies. If a sorc gets pressure, (s)he deals very little damage because so much cast time has to be contributed to defensive skills. hell, due to the short shield times you even need to recast them when an enemy also recasts buffs or a NBs re-engages from cloak.

All-in-all i don't agree with "unplayable" at all. I can still 1vX (maybe with smaller X than before the patch), duel and once groups get large the new negate is just game-chaning. However, saying "not nerfed at all" is just as wrong. The chnages to damage types for many stamina abilities alone is a HUGE to all stamina builds and thus an indirect nerf to magicka.

OrphanHelgen

Sorcs are still OP but with different build/ gear / setup.
I wont reveal the secret but wait a month and I bet the meta is out there;)

Reevster

OrphanHelgen wrote: »

Sorcs are still OP but with different build/ gear / setup.
I wont reveal the secret but wait a month and I bet the meta is out there;)

I agree... there is life beyond full light and 20 sec shield spams, just need to to have some imagination.

Minalan

OrphanHelgen wrote: »

Sorcs are still OP but with different build/ gear / setup.
I wont reveal the secret but wait a month and I bet the meta is out there;)

Let me guess: Heavy armor, black rose set, with sword and board to make a block battle-Mage? I've heard people making that work in this meta, especially in an open battle.

Problem is that I can't see 30K Magicka with 2300 spell damage, and no magicka cost reduction winning a resource fight against a Templar or Stam DK. You're missing too much lower Magicka cost and damage, like close to 15-20% less cost reduction. This release also added a 10% cost increase to every spell across the board.

LegendaryMage

Minalan wrote: »

OrphanHelgen wrote: »

Sorcs are still OP but with different build/ gear / setup.
I wont reveal the secret but wait a month and I bet the meta is out there;)

Let me guess: Heavy armor, black rose set, with sword and board to make a block battle-Mage? I've heard people making that work in this meta, especially in an open battle.

Problem is that I can't see 30K Magicka with 2300 spell damage, and no magicka cost reduction winning a resource fight against a Templar or Stam DK. You're missing too much lower Magicka cost and damage, like close to 15-20% less cost reduction. This release also added a 10% cost increase to every spell across the board.

You won't be winning a fight with those stats against a competent opponent, let alone multiple (decently) competent opponents at the same time. You can still have a great time in pvp of course, being a bit more tanky than other sorcerers and all that.

To win fights against top players as a sorcerer, nothing below 40k magicka and 2.5k spell damage should be even considered.

The reason why I used to run 46.5k and 2.5k spell damage is not because I wanted to make an OP character that does tons of damage, but because I needed to find a balance between sustain, damage and survivability to stand toe to toe with some of the best stamina builds out there, which in my opinion are a bit overbuffed with all the recent changes to the game.

OrphanHelgen

Minalan wrote: »

OrphanHelgen wrote: »

Sorcs are still OP but with different build/ gear / setup.
I wont reveal the secret but wait a month and I bet the meta is out there;)

Let me guess: Heavy armor, black rose set, with sword and board to make a block battle-Mage? I've heard people making that work in this meta, especially in an open battle.

Problem is that I can't see 30K Magicka with 2300 spell damage, and no magicka cost reduction winning a resource fight against a Templar or Stam DK. You're missing too much lower Magicka cost and damage, like close to 15-20% less cost reduction. This release also added a 10% cost increase to every spell across the board.

Nope not that, but I actually dont have a clue about pvp. Im talking about pve:)

holosoul

@Snape2255 Here's a tip for _you_

Heavy attacks with a staff restore magicka, not stamina.
I don't know why you're trying to give magicka players advice considering you don't even have the most basic knowledge ...

Lokey0024

Minalan wrote: »

Snape, with the six second shields, you just get stunned 4-5 seconds into a shield, and then destroyed before you can break the CC and re-shield.

The reason is the higher armor penetration in this patch with poisons. Your typical enemy is running 5K sharpened weapon, then another 5k on major breach, then 5K on concentration or spell erosion, crushing enchant, minor breach...

Pretty much. You're naked, it adds up to more than light armor can mitigate. Two shots and your dead while stunned and shield less. Two animation cancelled attacks (heavy plus wrecking, etc). Add a nasty Magicka poison for overkill. It's over.

I'm glad you're doing well in PVP, but that's not the rest of our experience. If you're part of a Zerg, you don't get targeted, and You do great. The rest of us get splattered by bow users, and you can't beat a competent Templar or dragon knight 1v1.

@Minalan

So how do the templar, dk and NB not get melted by these attacks in light armor?

The rest of us as you put it, applying to the actual rest of us, not just sorcs, get melted the same way by high pen builds. So how can you counter this? Blocking? Moving out of los? You know, skill. Not just facetanking stupid amounts of damage and expected to live.

Snape2255

holosoul wrote: »

@Snape2255 Here's a tip for _you_

Heavy attacks with a staff restore magicka, not stamina.
I don't know why you're trying to give magicka players advice considering you don't even have the most basic knowledge ...

I refer to your previous statement that "No one buffs whilst mounting, no one has even done that". Enough said.

At least everyone else here can reply with something constructive, you just write out this drivel.

Orlacc

While you all have been whining, my Sorc has adapted and is doing fine.Adapt or die.