Do you think ZOS should eliminate animation cancelling?

byrom101b16_ESO

Yes get rid of it

Just for the sake of context - I can animation cancel all day long with my Sorc. It isn't that hard once you've had a little practice, and it's pretty easy after a while, so I am not complaining from a point of view of competitive disadvantage.

I voted yes as different classes get more benefit out of this than others, and part of the fun of truly interesting PvP in any game is seeing what your opponent is doing have having that split second to react - not see them twitch and not know what is coming next. That just encourages class v class/build v build formula-based PvP.

It is also counterintuitive. You cannot swing a mighty blow in real life by vibrating your shoulder and your sword staying where it is. It looks bad.

Those saying it's skill, and removing it will remove skill... well, they like it because they can (a) animation cancel against those who haven't mastered it yet and thus enjoy easy kills in PvP and easy higher dps in PvE, and (b) they like being elitists and this is a key differentiator between 'noobs' and 'pros'. Both arguments are self-serving and to one extent or another, childish.

They sell this self-interest wrapped up in plausible-sounding arguments about 'skill' and how the game would be 'ruined' if it was removed. This is just rather obvious double-talk.

Age of Conan for it's time had great skill-based PvP (if one takes account of the class imbalances), and so does Guild Wars 2. I've played both a lot, and there wasn't this issue with animation cancelling attacks.

Of course animation cancelling needs to be in the game due to the need for reactive defences... but with one simple change, this critical capability could be retained and animation cancelling attack routines dealt with.

Simply put a global cooldown on abilities equal to the 'cast time' of an ability that starts at the beginning of the button-press, and have the effect and damage proc at the END of this period.... This would not effect light and heavy attacks, dodges or blocks of course - they aren't abilities, so weaving and reactive defences would not be affected. So you might cancel a wrecking blow half way through to block, but your blow would not proc - hell, why should it? Your weapon hasn't even extended yet.

Of course some adjustment in dps-race difficulties in PvE would have to be looked at, but this would improve the game immensely.

If you disagree, then at least use a reasoned argument in response to this post - nto the using semi-trolling playground stuff we all too often see.

I've put my case - you put yours without being a prat about it...

MacCait

Yes get rid of it

If we all want a game with balance... then YES.

Everyone can learn to animation cancel... but it always feels like an unintended glitch. Not everyone will know how to do it at first and it isn't self explanatory. It came about through accidental discovery and then players teaching other players. Also if it is not balanced acroos all classes, that is also a factor.

I think it is great that this game strives for balance where many games do not. So, if we are striving for balance, then they should at some point implement a way to stop animation canceling

Amorpho

No let it stay

Absolutely not! It brings depth and complexity to combat, making skill quite an important factor in a fight

Destruent

No let it stay

Funny how some suggest to implement global cooldowns on abilities in the game

Fischblut

No let it stay

It's one of few things I absolutely love in ESO, at least in PvE.

Annra

Yes get rid of it

Do what you want in PvE. In PvP it is simply unfair.

EsoRecon

No let it stay

Annra wrote: »

Do what you want in PvE. In PvP it is simply unfair.

You know what. Life isn't fair. Animation canceling separates good players from the bad. It adds a layer of skill in an already easy game.

Strider_Roshin

No let it stay

Animation canceling is what makes the combat of this game enjoyable. Without it, the combat would feel too slow paced.

SantaOrc

No let it stay

It is to much efford to fix it. They would have to rework to much, which would bring bugs or other problems.

"Please don't fix it" means the same like "please don't break combat" in this case.

EsoRecon

No let it stay

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

Animation canceling is what makes the combat of this game enjoyable. Without it, the combat would feel too slow paced.

We seem to agree on everything...

idk

No let it stay

Destruent wrote: »

Funny how some suggest to implement global cooldowns on abilities in the game

Hate GCDs. Stale mechanic for older MMO designs. I get it some people are challenged with these things but it's the same people who are challenged with using a decent build on other game.

Destruent

No let it stay

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

Destruent wrote: »

Funny how some suggest to implement global cooldowns on abilities in the game

Hate GCDs. Stale mechanic for older MMO designs. I get it some people are challenged with these things but it's the same people who are challenged with using a decent build on other game.

The thing is, there are already general cooldowns ingame. One for abilities, one for weapon attacks, one for bash, one for ultimates...

KanedaSyndrome

Yes get rid of it

Eliminate it, but let us chain attacks/actions, and let our character execute those attacks/actions in a fluid motion, a motion that would be faster than if we performed these things in a discrete manner.

There should still be the prioritisation that we currently have, such as a block would break the current ability/action chain, but not instantly, but in a fluid manner. So you may be in the middle of a swing with your sword, no, you can't block in the split of a second in this situation, you'll have to wait until you can pull your sword back and then use block.

All I'm saying is that I think we can get rid of animation cancelling with out sacrificing the fluid combat we currently enjoy.

But this is all an academic discussion as it'll probably never be removed now that ZoS is set on it, and is balancing the game around it.

Annra

Yes get rid of it

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

Animation canceling is what makes the combat of this game enjoyable. Without it, the combat would feel too slow paced.

There is no combat with animation canceling. It means instant death for me.

EsoRecon

No let it stay

Annra wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

Animation canceling is what makes the combat of this game enjoyable. Without it, the combat would feel too slow paced.

There is no combat with animation canceling. It means instant death for me.

Then that means you need to learn how to play. The game isn't going to go easy mode for people like you.

BucFanJKE

Yes get rid of it

They should get rid of it because not every player knows how to do it and it creates an unfair balance to the game.

While many could see this as a LTP issue, not everyone even knows this exists (not everyone is on the forums). It seems like it was unintended, but ZOS said screw it, too much hassle to fix.

Rohamad_Ali

Yes get rid of it

I understand the complaints against it and I also understand if it was removed , it would feel clunky for a lot of people use to it now . Personally ai like the feel of weaving abilities .

Destruent

No let it stay

BucFanJKE wrote: »

They should get rid of it because not every player knows how to do it and it creates an unfair balance to the game.

While many could see this as a LTP issue, not everyone even knows this exists (not everyone is on the forums). It seems like it was unintended, but ZOS said screw it, too much hassle to fix.

A better way to fix this would be to implement the basics of animation cancelling into the tutorial.

BucFanJKE

Yes get rid of it

Destruent wrote: »

BucFanJKE wrote: »

They should get rid of it because not every player knows how to do it and it creates an unfair balance to the game.

While many could see this as a LTP issue, not everyone even knows this exists (not everyone is on the forums). It seems like it was unintended, but ZOS said screw it, too much hassle to fix.

A better way to fix this would be to implement the basics of animation cancelling into the tutorial.

I would be okay with that. Make them practice a light, medium and heavy weave before they can get out of the prison. ZOS would never do it though.

Annra

Yes get rid of it

EsoRecon wrote: »

Annra wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

Animation canceling is what makes the combat of this game enjoyable. Without it, the combat would feel too slow paced.

There is no combat with animation canceling. It means instant death for me.

Then that means you need to learn how to play. The game isn't going to go easy mode for people like you.

Learn to play? There is no time to react if someone attacks me with animation canceling. "Combat" lasts under one second.

Destruent

No let it stay

Annra wrote: »

EsoRecon wrote: »

Annra wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

Animation canceling is what makes the combat of this game enjoyable. Without it, the combat would feel too slow paced.

There is no combat with animation canceling. It means instant death for me.

Then that means you need to learn how to play. The game isn't going to go easy mode for people like you.

Learn to play? There is no time to react if someone attacks me with animation canceling. "Combat" lasts under one second.

get gear with impen, keep buffs up, maybe get some more HP, set CPs accordingly, mabe walk with a group. All these things can help you to survive.

Annra

Yes get rid of it

Destruent wrote: »

Annra wrote: »

EsoRecon wrote: »

Annra wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

Animation canceling is what makes the combat of this game enjoyable. Without it, the combat would feel too slow paced.

There is no combat with animation canceling. It means instant death for me.

Then that means you need to learn how to play. The game isn't going to go easy mode for people like you.

Learn to play? There is no time to react if someone attacks me with animation canceling. "Combat" lasts under one second.

get gear with impen, keep buffs up, maybe get some more HP, set CPs accordingly, mabe walk with a group. All these things can help you to survive.

Ah. Good to know! How could I forget these basics?

Guess what? It does not help as much as needed.

alex394053

Yes get rid of it

Annra wrote: »

I see 2 options:

a) Get rid of it.
b) Include it in the beginners tutorial, so everyone knows how it works.

I play since beta and have no clue how to use animation canceling.

Nothing too complicated. Look at this
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/237015/what-animation-cancelling-is-detailed-explanation/p1

B.t.w mastering this esoteric martial "art" took me yesterday's evening no more no less. But it won't make you happier. All you will see is your character standing in a blocking stance or bashing and crazy DPS output. There is no role playing in this at all.

The thing is we are forced to use it in order to be competitive. One must howl with the wolves.

Destruent

No let it stay

Annra wrote: »

Destruent wrote: »

Annra wrote: »

EsoRecon wrote: »

Annra wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

Animation canceling is what makes the combat of this game enjoyable. Without it, the combat would feel too slow paced.

There is no combat with animation canceling. It means instant death for me.

Then that means you need to learn how to play. The game isn't going to go easy mode for people like you.

Learn to play? There is no time to react if someone attacks me with animation canceling. "Combat" lasts under one second.

get gear with impen, keep buffs up, maybe get some more HP, set CPs accordingly, mabe walk with a group. All these things can help you to survive.

Ah. Good to know! How could I forget these basics?

Guess what? It does not help as much as needed.

This won't give you a godmode, but a chance to survive. You will die nonetheless, and maybe get oneshotted, but i usually have enough time to react when i get atacked. Even if i get roflstomped by a zerg, but then it doesn't help at all

forzajuve212

No let it stay

bikerangelo wrote: »

As a templar; hell no.

If I get stuck in one of my endless channels and can't cancel it with a block, I'd die a bunch more than I do already. This doesn't just serve to do more dps in the game, it helps with survivability as well. Plus, my only burst combo comes from animation cancelling, and it'd be stupid easy to avoid if all of my animations followed through.
Anyone who spends five minutes in pvp will hear from someone else what animation cancelling is. It's not a knowledge requirement prior to leaving the wailing prison in order to have fun in the game, it's an added layer of difficulty to master in end game pve and pvp.
You should also earn the right to do more damage aside from gear and stats. That's how lower level players can remain competitive against higher level players, otherwise this game will turn into an even bigger damage contest where the person with the most gold wins because he can afford the better gear for the better stats.

If you don't know how to animation cancel, learn. If you don't want to, you don't have to. Don't strip the few remaining challenging mechanics left in the game.

This.

Nyx2

Yes get rid of it

It's interesting and all and I wouldn't mind it at all if you couldn't do such ridiculous combos with it. But as it is now, I have to vote against it.

Etchos

No let it stay

well this was enlightening. I've been running around Cyrodil for 6 months and didn't even know this was a thing till I stumbled on this post.

Which I guess is the problem right?

EsoRecon

No let it stay

Annra wrote: »

EsoRecon wrote: »

Annra wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

Animation canceling is what makes the combat of this game enjoyable. Without it, the combat would feel too slow paced.

There is no combat with animation canceling. It means instant death for me.

Then that means you need to learn how to play. The game isn't going to go easy mode for people like you.

Learn to play? There is no time to react if someone attacks me with animation canceling. "Combat" lasts under one second.

Then you must have like 10k hp if you die in one second. And in that case I say again LEARN TO PLAY. Animation canceling doesn't just kill you in 1 second

forzajuve212

No let it stay

Annra wrote: »

Destruent wrote: »

Annra wrote: »

EsoRecon wrote: »

Annra wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

Animation canceling is what makes the combat of this game enjoyable. Without it, the combat would feel too slow paced.

There is no combat with animation canceling. It means instant death for me.

Then that means you need to learn how to play. The game isn't going to go easy mode for people like you.

Learn to play? There is no time to react if someone attacks me with animation canceling. "Combat" lasts under one second.

get gear with impen, keep buffs up, maybe get some more HP, set CPs accordingly, mabe walk with a group. All these things can help you to survive.

Ah. Good to know! How could I forget these basics?

Guess what? It does not help as much as needed.

He's not saying you will win everything, the point is you need to actually look and see why you are dying. Run orzoga food with regen depending on your spec (stam regen for stam, magicka regen for magic) so you get around 22k+ max health. Run full impen (or as many pieces as possible) with 48 points into the resistant tree in CP. If you are a stam build, keep dodge chance up use vigor and rally to self heal, invest into immovable pots so you cant get cced, etc. There are plenty of ways for you to improve, just crying about animation canceling isnt gonna get you anywhere.

The point is, you need to run the right spec and practice to defeat those players. Yes, some players are extremely good and can near one shot but if you practice and learn why and how they are beating you, then you can improve and maybe stand a chance at killing them.

alex394053

Yes get rid of it

Amorpho wrote: »

Absolutely not! It brings depth and complexity to combat, making skill quite an important factor in a fight

What do you mean by depth and complexity? Please clarify. Every anim cancel proponent talks about these mystic "depths" all the time. But in reality it has the only effect of earning some extra AP on newbies' ignorance. This feature as is mentioned earlier is totally undocumented.