Do you think ZOS should eliminate animation cancelling?

RAGUNAnoOne

Seeing way to many threads about this so I want to see the thoughts of the community on this debate in poll form. Note: the notes said they were going to improve animations so you can see effects when canceled but as of now they will not eliminate it.

Forestd16b14_ESO

Yes get rid of it

Yes they should but to many players use it and have it some how drilled into there heads that if ZOS gets rid of it their DPS will be utter [to hawt].

SmalltalkJava

It's a visual pet peeve. Rather annoying and ugly

jeevin

Yes get rid of it

Cancel an attack animation and the damage dealt should be forfeit. Or there needs to be clear instructions from the beginning of the game so new players understand why waving your arms like a *** is how to achieve a higher damage output.
I put forward the idea early in this games life, that the the first quest should instruct the soulless one how to cast a spell then cancel with an attack and magically the damage for both attacks count before your weapon connects! Ridiculous....

CP5

Other (Please explain)

I agree with the post against it above, it looks bad when characters are just flinching as their attacks ht and since ZOS is keeping it around they should accept it and make it an official part of the game. But honestly I think it would make for a much easier to balance, much more strategic game if you had to commit to your actions and see the animation to the end. You would be rewarded for making good calls for the situation, perhaps blocking can cancel everything when you start it but if you stop an attack it should stop. But of course its been around so long that peoples mad flinching skills are almost what the game is based around.

eliisra

Other (Please explain)

I think animation cancelling light- and heavy attacks are pretty ok, also knows a weaving. This because it's a PvE thing and every single build and class can do it, therefore balanced.

But I have problems with animation cancelling high dmg/cc skills and combos with bash&block. I get that it adds extra layers of skill to gameplay(unless macro'ing). But class- and skill lines still aren't balanced based on how well you can clip the animation. The amount of dmg or healing a skill is doing isn't set by devs based on how well you can clip it. On a templar you cant really clip a single dps skill for example, since all is channelled or with to long cast time.

If ZoS wants to keep clipping for faster casting and combos, they need to make it possible for every single skill in the game, or buff skills that cant be clipped. It's that simple. But we all know they wont, because they have no clue how animation cancelling works lol.

There's also a visual problem with animation cancelling. I kinda wanna see what the opponent is doing in PvP, but when he clips the animation of for example Wrecking Blow I cant predict when the dmg and cc is going land.

Kammakazi

Yes get rid of it

Yes.

Proof:

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/2615283/#Comment_2615283

Idinuse

Yes get rid of it

Yes

Elsonso

Other (Please explain)

They should replace animation canceling with action canceling. You decide to do something else, whatever you are doing at the time does not happen. Starting to do something and then immediately canceling it should not result in the action continuing to do damage.

bikerangelo

No let it stay

As a templar; hell no.

If I get stuck in one of my endless channels and can't cancel it with a block, I'd die a bunch more than I do already. This doesn't just serve to do more dps in the game, it helps with survivability as well. Plus, my only burst combo comes from animation cancelling, and it'd be stupid easy to avoid if all of my animations followed through.
Anyone who spends five minutes in pvp will hear from someone else what animation cancelling is. It's not a knowledge requirement prior to leaving the wailing prison in order to have fun in the game, it's an added layer of difficulty to master in end game pve and pvp.
You should also earn the right to do more damage aside from gear and stats. That's how lower level players can remain competitive against higher level players, otherwise this game will turn into an even bigger damage contest where the person with the most gold wins because he can afford the better gear for the better stats.

If you don't know how to animation cancel, learn. If you don't want to, you don't have to. Don't strip the few remaining challenging mechanics left in the game.

dday3six

No let it stay

ZOS cannot get rid of animation canceling 100% or else players with not be able to reactively dodge or block, unless they are setting in wait for the moment to do so.

If ZOS does takes away AC I'll be moving on to another game most likely. ESO's combat will be sluggish, non-reactive, and boring. At that point it might as well convert to auto-attacks, percentage based auto-blocks, and a much longer global cooldown.

ESO is bug central. ZOS tries to fix something, and breaks something else. Then regardless of coming at a later date. More combat info and social features should've been in from the start. Through all that at least the combat was engaging. Requiring a lot of button/click interaction and timing to be perfected. Take away AC completely and in my opinion it's the death of the last redeeming quality ESO has: At least combat was fun.

Fellhand_ESO

Other (Please explain)

I like the fast paced action, I just do not like that we have to cancel our animations to do it. Epic duels between characters have devolved into who can seizure the fastest. I understand canceling an attack/ability to block incoming damage, but it should be a trade off.

Idinuse

Yes get rid of it

bikerangelo wrote: »

As a templar; hell no.

If I get stuck in one of my endless channels and can't cancel it with a block, I'd die a bunch more than I do already. This doesn't just serve to do more dps in the game, it helps with survivability as well. Plus, my only burst combo comes from animation cancelling, and it'd be stupid easy to avoid if all of my animations followed through.
Anyone who spends five minutes in pvp will hear from someone else what animation cancelling is. It's not a knowledge requirement prior to leaving the wailing prison in order to have fun in the game, it's an added layer of difficulty to master in end game pve and pvp.
You should also earn the right to do more damage aside from gear and stats. That's how lower level players can remain competitive against higher level players, otherwise this game will turn into an even bigger damage contest where the person with the most gold wins because he can afford the better gear for the better stats.

If you don't know how to animation cancel, learn. If you don't want to, you don't have to. Don't strip the few remaining challenging mechanics left in the game.

A block cancels the effect of the current channeled skill, it's the weapon swapping without cancelling the skill at hand that is the problem and opens up for all macro cheating.

Channeled skills are in fact the only ones not affected by Animation Canceling advantages and therefore are useless in macros.

Jaronking

No let it stay

Well the only way to remove it would force the devs to close the game down in my opinion they should just keep it.Keep the game going plus its not hard to learn just practice and you will get it done pack.

dday3six

No let it stay

Idinuse wrote: »

bikerangelo wrote: »

As a templar; hell no.

If I get stuck in one of my endless channels and can't cancel it with a block, I'd die a bunch more than I do already. This doesn't just serve to do more dps in the game, it helps with survivability as well. Plus, my only burst combo comes from animation cancelling, and it'd be stupid easy to avoid if all of my animations followed through.
Anyone who spends five minutes in pvp will hear from someone else what animation cancelling is. It's not a knowledge requirement prior to leaving the wailing prison in order to have fun in the game, it's an added layer of difficulty to master in end game pve and pvp.
You should also earn the right to do more damage aside from gear and stats. That's how lower level players can remain competitive against higher level players, otherwise this game will turn into an even bigger damage contest where the person with the most gold wins because he can afford the better gear for the better stats.

If you don't know how to animation cancel, learn. If you don't want to, you don't have to. Don't strip the few remaining challenging mechanics left in the game.

A block cancels the effect of the current channeled skill, it's the weapon swapping without cancelling the skill at hand that is the problem and opens up for all macro cheating.

Channeled skills are in fact the only ones not affected by Animation Canceling advantages and therefore are useless in macros.

Why do people keep bringing up macros? It's not widely used because it cannot be adjusted to changing conditions. On top of that it's slower than a player actually inputing the actions manually believe it or not. Nearly all instances of players in PVP claiming that macros allowed a player to get off X skills/actions in 1s are misinterpreting the situation. All skills have a 0.9s global cool down that a user cannot bypas with marcos. What happens in these X skills in 1 sec scenarios is lag.

bikerangelo

No let it stay

Idinuse wrote: »

A block cancels the effect of the current channeled skill, it's the weapon swapping without cancelling the skill at hand that is the problem and opens up for all macro cheating.

Channeled skills are in fact the only ones not affected by Animation Canceling advantages and therefore are useless in macros.

If someone's using macros, the proper response is to report them, not to remove animation cancelling.

jeevin

Yes get rid of it

Jaronking wrote: »

Well the only way to remove it would force the devs to close the game down in my opinion they should just keep it.Keep the game going plus its not hard to learn just practice and you will get it done pack.

Why would the devs be forced to close the game? Devs generally implement changes to the game via a patch. My hopes are for a system where total damage of an attack/spell is calculated over the time of the animation. Therefore if an animation plays out in full the full damage is calculated, if the animation is cancelled half way through then half the damage is calculated and so on. You can still cancel the animation and have fluid combat but a damage penalty applies.

Edit for speeling

Idinuse

Yes get rid of it

I suggest that Razer mouse are sold in the Crown Store at a hefty discount.

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/2619803/#Comment_2619803

And most are used when the victim is CCd or from behind (out of LoS) as well as from behind or the side, and often when facing multiple players, one fighting me the other having all the time in the world to fire off a macro. The 1-2 seconds a macro takes to deal 30? 40K? of damage while someone is CCd or from behind is very much safe from a "I can't do anything while the macro is running" perspective. In fact switching my weapon twice manually takes longer than a macro, that's how "vulnerable" one is during a macro. Besides. You choose what and how many skills and swaps that you want in a macro and you set the pause between each action in the software according to cooldown, if needed.

Anyone can try to cast a skill with an animation which would keep you from hitting another skill and immediately swap weapons. Instead of the animation, the skill is active or fired off already and you can hit the next skill, press it and swap weapon and it's instant, press another skill on next bar and swap weapon..and so on, and this stacks. Be it heals, shields or DMG skills, doesn't matter.

Line that up in a macro and you know that you can stack a good amount of skills and removing the animation makes all these skills instant at the same time as opposed to anyone not having access to hardware and software that makes this possible.

9/10 instances of a macro start with a gap closer with a CC or another attack with CC such as WB (that currently may be unbreakable), thus minimizing the risk of being "stuck" in the macro, giving an easy follow through.

The amount of $ some are prepared to dish out on toys that make them the hands down least skillful players in the game is mind blowing.

Edit: As suggested above and below, if the Animation is Canceled, so should the Damage/Heal/Shield or whatever effect be canceled.

MrDerrikk

No let it stay

So it seems peoples issues with weaving comes from Macros. Why people think thins is a huge problem I don't know, as the different Cookson times for each skill and the fact that it locks you onto an attack makes it absurdly complicated to do. Plus, it's been proven to be slower and less reactive (because of the lock-in), and to top it all off you can report them and get them banned.

RAGUNAnoOne

bikerangelo wrote: »

Idinuse wrote: »

A block cancels the effect of the current channeled skill, it's the weapon swapping without cancelling the skill at hand that is the problem and opens up for all macro cheating.

Channeled skills are in fact the only ones not affected by Animation Canceling advantages and therefore are useless in macros.

If someone's using macros, the proper response is to report them, not to remove animation cancelling.

I read that ZOS says macros are a legit strategy and is not a reportable offense

CuzImHarley

Yes get rid of it

In my opinion, it gives an unfair advantage, because not even one knows how to do, including me. It gives other a faster attack time than I can match

CuzImHarley

Yes get rid of it

Also, I don't want to learn, cuz that's not the way the game was suppose to be played. However I do like jeevin's suggestion in that if they do it a damage penalty would apply. Plus, when you're in fast paced PvP, you don't have time to snap videos of everyone to try and figure out who is doing what.

Bluepitbull13

No let it stay

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ThZtwhYkKSs&ab_channel=BlastedAssassin

PrinceBoru

No let it stay

Not now I'm just getting good at it!

MrDerrikk

No let it stay

RAGUNAnoOne wrote: »

bikerangelo wrote: »

Idinuse wrote: »

A block cancels the effect of the current channeled skill, it's the weapon swapping without cancelling the skill at hand that is the problem and opens up for all macro cheating.

Channeled skills are in fact the only ones not affected by Animation Canceling advantages and therefore are useless in macros.

If someone's using macros, the proper response is to report them, not to remove animation cancelling.

I read that ZOS says macros are a legit strategy and is not a reportable offense

Some macros would be allowed (grudgingly), but I can see heavier users being penalised for getting closer to botting or the similar TOS rules you'd be breaking.

JackDaniell

No let it stay

Taking away animation cancelling would ruin the responsiveness and flow of combat, the problem isn't that cancelling is hard to learn or cheating, it's that most people just haven't been taught how to do it. If you don't want to learn to cancel spam this like jabs and wrecking blow.

GreenSoup2HoT

Yes get rid of it

I say yes for a couple of reason's.

1: Your taking away information from the enemy.
2: You don't see animation's which is immersion breaking for some. To be honest, some combo's just look flat out ridiculous.
3: The game become's "button mash online"
4: On console, hinder's regen since you must block to cancel (Could also be considered a problem for stamina build's because we must loose regen to achieve higher damage while magicka build's usually don't use any stamina other then for cc breaking. Could be seen as an unfair advantage).
5: Promote's Macro's
6: Canceling an ability's animation should forfeit any damage it will do.


However i would rather it stay for a couple reason's.

1: Give's you the option to stop what your doing to block in certain scenario's.
2: Give's player's a way to maximize damage instead of just spamming your ability.
3: Create's a gap between hardcore and casual's.
4: Combat become's even more predictable and boring without "AC"



The main concern i have with Animation canceling is not actually canceling the ability to stop the animation. It's using a channeled ability and still being able to get a heavy attack off at the same time. I personally think if you start do use wrecking blow, no other action should be able to be used. If you start to heavy attack, it will interrupt the wrecking blow.

My other concern, Animation canceling has been confirmed by Eso live it is fine to do.. however there is no actually "How to" for player's who are unaware it is possible.

For console user's as well, it would be nice if you could rebind block. It's a little difficult for me at least to always be spamming L2. I don't play with 4 finger's on the trigger's. If i could have an option to rebind my block button, i would have a much easier time Animation Canceling.


I personally think weaving is what should create skill. Not animation canceling. Animation canceling should cancel the ability's output because you canceled it.

jeevin

Yes get rid of it

JackDaniell wrote: »

Taking away animation cancelling would ruin the responsiveness and flow of combat, the problem isn't that cancelling is hard to learn or cheating, it's that most people just haven't been taught how to do it. If you don't want to learn to cancel spam this like jabs and wrecking blow.

Taking away the damage done by a cancelled animation or applying a damage penalty for cancelling an animation would not ruin responsiveness of combat. The responsiveness remains the same, the time to kill would be longer and the game would require more actual "skill" with reactions to combat as it appears on the screen.

NBrookus

Other (Please explain)

I'm optimistic about the upcoming change. My only beef with AC was being unable to see all the moves, and they are addressing that.

Zorrashi

Other (Please explain)

I actually don't want animation cancelling to be removed, but I do want it o be changed--or rather, improved. I want to actually see what they're doing, or at least have a better idea of what they're using.

riverdragon72

I think they eliminated animations on Azuras entirely.