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https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/684716
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https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/684716
Do you think ZOS should eliminate animation cancelling?
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Lord_Wrath✭✭✭✭✭Yes get rid of itI just think its cheap. I admit to using it as it becomes necessary when everyone else does it otherwise you are underperforming. But when i die in pvp instantly out of the blue with only seeing one move made i dont consider that person a 'good player'.1300+ CP | Lørd Wrath | - Sorcerer - Palatine - Grand Master Crafter - 30000 Achievement Points
Launch Player - PC - NA - EP0 -
clocksstoppe✭✭✭✭✭
✭No let it stayWhat's the point of wanting to remove animation canceling? If some spells are broken because of "animation canceling" it means they don't have a long enough cast/channel time. Animations have nothing to do with this.0 -
dday3six✭✭✭✭✭
✭No let it stayalex394053 wrote: »Absolutely not! It brings depth and complexity to combat, making skill quite an important factor in a fight
What do you mean by depth and complexity? Please clarify. Every anim cancel proponent talks about these mystic "depths" all the time. But in reality it has the only effect of earning some extra AP on newbies' ignorance. This feature as is mentioned earlier is totally undocumented.
First and foremost, noobies by their very nature are easy to put down. They're most likely new to the game, and lack the experience to actually put up a fight. Stating obvious facts that are not directly related doesn't prove much of a point.
One of the first layers of depth and complexity to animation canceling is that most people don't understand without it they'd have to wait full stop to input another action. Your character could not run and jump. They'd have to run, stop, then jump. What most people actually want is to keep animation canceling, but not allow the effect of some animation to be applied in particular cases. The animation would stop but no damage or buff would happen. AC has been build up as a boogeyman by many players, they don't understand it, and they don't want to. They just want to blame it for their troubles.
I set for a long time learning how to animation cancel and weave. I'd be backed into a corner at the Undaunted Enclave waiting for a dungeon group, while practicing the pacing required to Light Attack into Steel Tornado then block cancel Steel Tornado. As I progressed I moved to honing the intricacies of animation canceling. I added weapon swap, bash, and dodge roll cancels to my repertoire. Utimately I extented how many actions I could do within the 0.9s global cooldown for all skills. I now have more interacting inputs with each action my character takes. The depth is that it adds to output capacity. The complexity is that each action has it's own window for the best time to cancel it.2 -
Nyx2✭✭✭✭Yes get rid of italex394053 wrote: »Absolutely not! It brings depth and complexity to combat, making skill quite an important factor in a fight
What do you mean by depth and complexity? Please clarify. Every anim cancel proponent talks about these mystic "depths" all the time. But in reality it has the only effect of earning some extra AP on newbies' ignorance. This feature as is mentioned earlier is totally undocumented.
First and foremost, noobies by their very nature are easy to put down. They're most likely new to the game, and lack the experience to actually put up a fight. Stating obvious facts that are not directly related doesn't prove much of a point.
Ok. Now please justify using 5 abilities in 1 second. No **** they can't put up a fight. What's a "noobie" going to learn from that? And also, what kinda obnoxious combat is that? Everything has it's intended channel and cast times not so you can cancel them out for even more abilities. At the very least this needs some reasonable tweaks.2 -
imenace✭✭✭Other (Please explain)game will literally be unplayable without it, however they need to reduce it a bit0 -
notimetocare✭✭✭✭✭
✭No let it stayI see 2 options:
a) Get rid of it.
b) Include it in the beginners tutorial, so everyone knows how it works.
I play since beta and have no clue how to use animation canceling.
Tutorials for all games are bad... Check out Lefty_Lucy's video on animation cancelling. Far better than any tutorial ZoS could put out0 -
notimetocare✭✭✭✭✭
✭No let it stayMaybe they should just link to this video in their tutorial...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BLZzGoPp9Ug 0 -
Annra✭✭✭✭✭Yes get rid of itnotimetocare wrote: »I see 2 options:
a) Get rid of it.
b) Include it in the beginners tutorial, so everyone knows how it works.
I play since beta and have no clue how to use animation canceling.
Tutorials for all games are bad... Check out Lefty_Lucy's video on animation cancelling. Far better than any tutorial ZoS could put out
Not worth the time to look at this video.
I refuse to learn this technique because i'm still convinced it's a form of cheating.0 -
dday3six✭✭✭✭✭
✭No let it stayalex394053 wrote: »Absolutely not! It brings depth and complexity to combat, making skill quite an important factor in a fight
What do you mean by depth and complexity? Please clarify. Every anim cancel proponent talks about these mystic "depths" all the time. But in reality it has the only effect of earning some extra AP on newbies' ignorance. This feature as is mentioned earlier is totally undocumented.
First and foremost, noobies by their very nature are easy to put down. They're most likely new to the game, and lack the experience to actually put up a fight. Stating obvious facts that are not directly related doesn't prove much of a point.
Ok. Now please justify using 5 abilities in 1 second. No **** they can't put up a fight. What's a "noobie" going to learn from that? And also, what kinda obnoxious combat is that? Everything has it's intended channel and cast times not so you can cancel them out for even more abilities. At the very least this needs some reasonable tweaks.
Did you read the part when I said there's a 0.9s cooldown on skills? AC and weaving does not allow that to be bypassed. Nothing does. No one can cast 5 abilities in 1s. What it does do is allow others actions such as light/heavy attacks, dodge rolls, weapon swaps, and blocks to be used during that GCD to maximize actions per second.2 -
Teko✭Yes get rid of itI am voting YES.
While animation canceling can be fun,it's also not explained anywhere in game and looks like a side effect.
I dislike fast-clicking combat so i would prefer to get it removed.2 -
Destruent✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭No let it stayI am voting YES.
While animation canceling can be fun,it's also not explained anywhere in game and looks like a side effect.
I dislike fast-clicking combat so i would prefer to get it removed.
lol...supporting your group, healing, tanking, dpsing, even the scaling of your skills isn't explained ingame. Should we just remove it all?Noobplar1 -
Nyx2✭✭✭✭Yes get rid of italex394053 wrote: »Absolutely not! It brings depth and complexity to combat, making skill quite an important factor in a fight
What do you mean by depth and complexity? Please clarify. Every anim cancel proponent talks about these mystic "depths" all the time. But in reality it has the only effect of earning some extra AP on newbies' ignorance. This feature as is mentioned earlier is totally undocumented.
First and foremost, noobies by their very nature are easy to put down. They're most likely new to the game, and lack the experience to actually put up a fight. Stating obvious facts that are not directly related doesn't prove much of a point.
Ok. Now please justify using 5 abilities in 1 second. No **** they can't put up a fight. What's a "noobie" going to learn from that? And also, what kinda obnoxious combat is that? Everything has it's intended channel and cast times not so you can cancel them out for even more abilities. At the very least this needs some reasonable tweaks.
Did you read the part when I said there's a 0.9s cooldown on skills? AC and weaving does not allow that to be bypassed. Nothing does. No one can cast 5 abilities in 1s. What it does do is allow others actions such as light/heavy attacks, dodge rolls, weapon swaps, and blocks to be used during that GCD to maximize actions per second.
I exaggerated to get a point across but you can very well stack attacks on top of each other with the next ability instantly being ready. Again, what's a noobie going to learn from a beatdown like that? Nothing. And lets be honest: this was never intended to be in the game the way it is abused now.2 -
Destruent✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭No let it stayalex394053 wrote: »Absolutely not! It brings depth and complexity to combat, making skill quite an important factor in a fight
What do you mean by depth and complexity? Please clarify. Every anim cancel proponent talks about these mystic "depths" all the time. But in reality it has the only effect of earning some extra AP on newbies' ignorance. This feature as is mentioned earlier is totally undocumented.
First and foremost, noobies by their very nature are easy to put down. They're most likely new to the game, and lack the experience to actually put up a fight. Stating obvious facts that are not directly related doesn't prove much of a point.
Ok. Now please justify using 5 abilities in 1 second. No **** they can't put up a fight. What's a "noobie" going to learn from that? And also, what kinda obnoxious combat is that? Everything has it's intended channel and cast times not so you can cancel them out for even more abilities. At the very least this needs some reasonable tweaks.
Did you read the part when I said there's a 0.9s cooldown on skills? AC and weaving does not allow that to be bypassed. Nothing does. No one can cast 5 abilities in 1s. What it does do is allow others actions such as light/heavy attacks, dodge rolls, weapon swaps, and blocks to be used during that GCD to maximize actions per second.
I exaggerated to get a point across but you can very well stack attacks on top of each other with the next ability instantly being ready. Again, what's a noobie going to learn from a beatdown like that? Nothing. And lets be honest: this was never intended to be in the game the way it is abused now.
There are some skills that deal delayed damage or have a flight time. That's the only option to stack abilities. Everything else has to "wait" for the 0.9 seconds cooldown. Note that the cooldown starts with the beginning of the animation.
btw. ZOS adds more and more possibilities for easy kills, so i think it is intended. I don't like this kind of pvp, but it's not the fault of animation cancelling.Noobplar3 -
dday3six✭✭✭✭✭
✭No let it stayalex394053 wrote: »Absolutely not! It brings depth and complexity to combat, making skill quite an important factor in a fight
What do you mean by depth and complexity? Please clarify. Every anim cancel proponent talks about these mystic "depths" all the time. But in reality it has the only effect of earning some extra AP on newbies' ignorance. This feature as is mentioned earlier is totally undocumented.
First and foremost, noobies by their very nature are easy to put down. They're most likely new to the game, and lack the experience to actually put up a fight. Stating obvious facts that are not directly related doesn't prove much of a point.
Ok. Now please justify using 5 abilities in 1 second. No **** they can't put up a fight. What's a "noobie" going to learn from that? And also, what kinda obnoxious combat is that? Everything has it's intended channel and cast times not so you can cancel them out for even more abilities. At the very least this needs some reasonable tweaks.
Did you read the part when I said there's a 0.9s cooldown on skills? AC and weaving does not allow that to be bypassed. Nothing does. No one can cast 5 abilities in 1s. What it does do is allow others actions such as light/heavy attacks, dodge rolls, weapon swaps, and blocks to be used during that GCD to maximize actions per second.
I exaggerated to get a point across but you can very well stack attacks on top of each other with the next ability instantly being ready. Again, what's a noobie going to learn from a beatdown like that? Nothing. And lets be honest: this was never intended to be in the game the way it is abused now.
My point is that there exists a learning curve for new players with or without AC. Should we give every lvl10 that wanders into Cyrodiil instant access to all skills, passives, and mail them a set of Gold gear too?
Going all "Won't somebody think of the noobies..." Is just a distraction. It's an appeal to emotion when facts are absent. That sort of exaggeration just fuels ignorance. Talking up 5 skills in 1s when it's impossible is fear mongering, and frankly it doesn't help your case.2 -
Etchos✭✭✭No let it stayWell as one of the disenfranchised noobs that only found out this was a thing yesterday I dont actually think its a big deal.
I watched the video. and another video. and another.
Bottom line as i see it is that its being sold as this thing where multiple skills are being fired almost instantly where from what ive seen this isnt the case. you cancel a light attack with a skill. Or a skill with a block or roll or swap. etc etc. Its not like you are cancelling skills with skills and firing this big mass of WTF at someone.
The ONLY issue i now have is that not knowing it was possible and not knowing it was used against me means i now have to go and work through my rotation and skills which given thats now embedded is going to be difficult. It sort of explains why i always felt like my stamblade was underperforming.
Its definitely an edge. Unfair? Only from the point of view that players arnt really made aware of it. Lots of people play the game and dont frequent the forum. If i hadnt come here because i was bored id still be ignorant of it.
End of the day. Anyone can do it. Adopting the attitude that you refuse to do it because you think it is cheating is just silly IMO.1 -
Nyx2✭✭✭✭Yes get rid of italex394053 wrote: »Absolutely not! It brings depth and complexity to combat, making skill quite an important factor in a fight
What do you mean by depth and complexity? Please clarify. Every anim cancel proponent talks about these mystic "depths" all the time. But in reality it has the only effect of earning some extra AP on newbies' ignorance. This feature as is mentioned earlier is totally undocumented.
First and foremost, noobies by their very nature are easy to put down. They're most likely new to the game, and lack the experience to actually put up a fight. Stating obvious facts that are not directly related doesn't prove much of a point.
Ok. Now please justify using 5 abilities in 1 second. No **** they can't put up a fight. What's a "noobie" going to learn from that? And also, what kinda obnoxious combat is that? Everything has it's intended channel and cast times not so you can cancel them out for even more abilities. At the very least this needs some reasonable tweaks.
Did you read the part when I said there's a 0.9s cooldown on skills? AC and weaving does not allow that to be bypassed. Nothing does. No one can cast 5 abilities in 1s. What it does do is allow others actions such as light/heavy attacks, dodge rolls, weapon swaps, and blocks to be used during that GCD to maximize actions per second.
I exaggerated to get a point across but you can very well stack attacks on top of each other with the next ability instantly being ready. Again, what's a noobie going to learn from a beatdown like that? Nothing. And lets be honest: this was never intended to be in the game the way it is abused now.
My point is that there exists a learning curve for new players with or without AC. Should we give every lvl10 that wanders into Cyrodiil instant access to all skills, passives, and mail them a set of Gold gear too?
Going all "Won't somebody think of the noobies..." Is just a distraction. It's an appeal to emotion when facts are absent. That sort of exaggeration just fuels ignorance. Talking up 5 skills in 1s when it's impossible is fear mongering, and frankly it doesn't help your case.
But nitpicking is supposed to help you? It's a pointless and not to mention ugly layer of mechanic. It has nothing to do with skill to learn the required button mashing. Skill involves things such as precise aim, fast reaction time, decision making and tactics. Removing AC or tweaking it better would have no impact on any of these things.1 -
dday3six✭✭✭✭✭
✭No let it stayalex394053 wrote: »Absolutely not! It brings depth and complexity to combat, making skill quite an important factor in a fight
What do you mean by depth and complexity? Please clarify. Every anim cancel proponent talks about these mystic "depths" all the time. But in reality it has the only effect of earning some extra AP on newbies' ignorance. This feature as is mentioned earlier is totally undocumented.
First and foremost, noobies by their very nature are easy to put down. They're most likely new to the game, and lack the experience to actually put up a fight. Stating obvious facts that are not directly related doesn't prove much of a point.
Ok. Now please justify using 5 abilities in 1 second. No **** they can't put up a fight. What's a "noobie" going to learn from that? And also, what kinda obnoxious combat is that? Everything has it's intended channel and cast times not so you can cancel them out for even more abilities. At the very least this needs some reasonable tweaks.
Did you read the part when I said there's a 0.9s cooldown on skills? AC and weaving does not allow that to be bypassed. Nothing does. No one can cast 5 abilities in 1s. What it does do is allow others actions such as light/heavy attacks, dodge rolls, weapon swaps, and blocks to be used during that GCD to maximize actions per second.
I exaggerated to get a point across but you can very well stack attacks on top of each other with the next ability instantly being ready. Again, what's a noobie going to learn from a beatdown like that? Nothing. And lets be honest: this was never intended to be in the game the way it is abused now.
My point is that there exists a learning curve for new players with or without AC. Should we give every lvl10 that wanders into Cyrodiil instant access to all skills, passives, and mail them a set of Gold gear too?
Going all "Won't somebody think of the noobies..." Is just a distraction. It's an appeal to emotion when facts are absent. That sort of exaggeration just fuels ignorance. Talking up 5 skills in 1s when it's impossible is fear mongering, and frankly it doesn't help your case.
But nitpicking is supposed to help you? It's a pointless and not to mention ugly layer of mechanic. It has nothing to do with skill to learn the required button mashing. Skill involves things such as precise aim, fast reaction time, decision making and tactics. Removing AC or tweaking it better would have no impact on any of these things.
If you think that animation canceling doesn't involve reaction time and decision making, you have not taken the time to look beyond the surface. It also cannot be done with button mashing. There is a different timing for each ability.2 -
frethopper✭✭✭Yes get rid of itI use a degree of animation cancelling myself, but I do find it ridiculous to be honest. That said, I also play golf, and many is the time I've wanted to cancel my swing before striking the ball, but still have it sail majestically down the center of the fairway.
Seriously though, I can't see ZOS ever trying to tackle this. It would require a massive design and technical effort, for very little return. What they could do is try to balance it a little. Some classes are much more able to make use of it than others.0 -
MasterSpatula✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Other (Please explain)Nerf nerfs.
Otherwise, don't really care."A probable impossibility is preferable to an improbable possibility." - Aristotle0 -
Nyx2✭✭✭✭Yes get rid of italex394053 wrote: »Absolutely not! It brings depth and complexity to combat, making skill quite an important factor in a fight
What do you mean by depth and complexity? Please clarify. Every anim cancel proponent talks about these mystic "depths" all the time. But in reality it has the only effect of earning some extra AP on newbies' ignorance. This feature as is mentioned earlier is totally undocumented.
First and foremost, noobies by their very nature are easy to put down. They're most likely new to the game, and lack the experience to actually put up a fight. Stating obvious facts that are not directly related doesn't prove much of a point.
Ok. Now please justify using 5 abilities in 1 second. No **** they can't put up a fight. What's a "noobie" going to learn from that? And also, what kinda obnoxious combat is that? Everything has it's intended channel and cast times not so you can cancel them out for even more abilities. At the very least this needs some reasonable tweaks.
Did you read the part when I said there's a 0.9s cooldown on skills? AC and weaving does not allow that to be bypassed. Nothing does. No one can cast 5 abilities in 1s. What it does do is allow others actions such as light/heavy attacks, dodge rolls, weapon swaps, and blocks to be used during that GCD to maximize actions per second.
I exaggerated to get a point across but you can very well stack attacks on top of each other with the next ability instantly being ready. Again, what's a noobie going to learn from a beatdown like that? Nothing. And lets be honest: this was never intended to be in the game the way it is abused now.
My point is that there exists a learning curve for new players with or without AC. Should we give every lvl10 that wanders into Cyrodiil instant access to all skills, passives, and mail them a set of Gold gear too?
Going all "Won't somebody think of the noobies..." Is just a distraction. It's an appeal to emotion when facts are absent. That sort of exaggeration just fuels ignorance. Talking up 5 skills in 1s when it's impossible is fear mongering, and frankly it doesn't help your case.
But nitpicking is supposed to help you? It's a pointless and not to mention ugly layer of mechanic. It has nothing to do with skill to learn the required button mashing. Skill involves things such as precise aim, fast reaction time, decision making and tactics. Removing AC or tweaking it better would have no impact on any of these things.
If you think that animation canceling doesn't involve reaction time and decision making, you have not taken the time to look beyond the surface. It also cannot be done with button mashing. There is a different timing for each ability.
Really? Beacause I totally didn't call it button mashing just to belittle those efforts... It's something that becomes routine and has little to do with what is referred to as skill in a game. There is no further decision making required. Either you can go for dps or you cannot.1 -
dday3six✭✭✭✭✭
✭No let it stayalex394053 wrote: »Absolutely not! It brings depth and complexity to combat, making skill quite an important factor in a fight
What do you mean by depth and complexity? Please clarify. Every anim cancel proponent talks about these mystic "depths" all the time. But in reality it has the only effect of earning some extra AP on newbies' ignorance. This feature as is mentioned earlier is totally undocumented.
First and foremost, noobies by their very nature are easy to put down. They're most likely new to the game, and lack the experience to actually put up a fight. Stating obvious facts that are not directly related doesn't prove much of a point.
Ok. Now please justify using 5 abilities in 1 second. No **** they can't put up a fight. What's a "noobie" going to learn from that? And also, what kinda obnoxious combat is that? Everything has it's intended channel and cast times not so you can cancel them out for even more abilities. At the very least this needs some reasonable tweaks.
Did you read the part when I said there's a 0.9s cooldown on skills? AC and weaving does not allow that to be bypassed. Nothing does. No one can cast 5 abilities in 1s. What it does do is allow others actions such as light/heavy attacks, dodge rolls, weapon swaps, and blocks to be used during that GCD to maximize actions per second.
I exaggerated to get a point across but you can very well stack attacks on top of each other with the next ability instantly being ready. Again, what's a noobie going to learn from a beatdown like that? Nothing. And lets be honest: this was never intended to be in the game the way it is abused now.
My point is that there exists a learning curve for new players with or without AC. Should we give every lvl10 that wanders into Cyrodiil instant access to all skills, passives, and mail them a set of Gold gear too?
Going all "Won't somebody think of the noobies..." Is just a distraction. It's an appeal to emotion when facts are absent. That sort of exaggeration just fuels ignorance. Talking up 5 skills in 1s when it's impossible is fear mongering, and frankly it doesn't help your case.
But nitpicking is supposed to help you? It's a pointless and not to mention ugly layer of mechanic. It has nothing to do with skill to learn the required button mashing. Skill involves things such as precise aim, fast reaction time, decision making and tactics. Removing AC or tweaking it better would have no impact on any of these things.
If you think that animation canceling doesn't involve reaction time and decision making, you have not taken the time to look beyond the surface. It also cannot be done with button mashing. There is a different timing for each ability.
Really? Beacause I totally didn't call it button mashing just to belittle those efforts... It's something that becomes routine and has little to do with what is referred to as skill in a game. There is no further decision making required. Either you can go for dps or you cannot.
If you think it's just routine button mashing with no decision making. It's rather obvious you've no idea how to animation cancel and the extent of it's application. There's not much else to say. You can demonize and hyperbole all you want, neither change facts.1 -
Nyx2✭✭✭✭Yes get rid of italex394053 wrote: »Absolutely not! It brings depth and complexity to combat, making skill quite an important factor in a fight
What do you mean by depth and complexity? Please clarify. Every anim cancel proponent talks about these mystic "depths" all the time. But in reality it has the only effect of earning some extra AP on newbies' ignorance. This feature as is mentioned earlier is totally undocumented.
First and foremost, noobies by their very nature are easy to put down. They're most likely new to the game, and lack the experience to actually put up a fight. Stating obvious facts that are not directly related doesn't prove much of a point.
Ok. Now please justify using 5 abilities in 1 second. No **** they can't put up a fight. What's a "noobie" going to learn from that? And also, what kinda obnoxious combat is that? Everything has it's intended channel and cast times not so you can cancel them out for even more abilities. At the very least this needs some reasonable tweaks.
Did you read the part when I said there's a 0.9s cooldown on skills? AC and weaving does not allow that to be bypassed. Nothing does. No one can cast 5 abilities in 1s. What it does do is allow others actions such as light/heavy attacks, dodge rolls, weapon swaps, and blocks to be used during that GCD to maximize actions per second.
I exaggerated to get a point across but you can very well stack attacks on top of each other with the next ability instantly being ready. Again, what's a noobie going to learn from a beatdown like that? Nothing. And lets be honest: this was never intended to be in the game the way it is abused now.
My point is that there exists a learning curve for new players with or without AC. Should we give every lvl10 that wanders into Cyrodiil instant access to all skills, passives, and mail them a set of Gold gear too?
Going all "Won't somebody think of the noobies..." Is just a distraction. It's an appeal to emotion when facts are absent. That sort of exaggeration just fuels ignorance. Talking up 5 skills in 1s when it's impossible is fear mongering, and frankly it doesn't help your case.
But nitpicking is supposed to help you? It's a pointless and not to mention ugly layer of mechanic. It has nothing to do with skill to learn the required button mashing. Skill involves things such as precise aim, fast reaction time, decision making and tactics. Removing AC or tweaking it better would have no impact on any of these things.
If you think that animation canceling doesn't involve reaction time and decision making, you have not taken the time to look beyond the surface. It also cannot be done with button mashing. There is a different timing for each ability.
Really? Beacause I totally didn't call it button mashing just to belittle those efforts... It's something that becomes routine and has little to do with what is referred to as skill in a game. There is no further decision making required. Either you can go for dps or you cannot.
If you think it's just routine button mashing with no decision making. It's rather obvious you've no idea how to animation cancel and the extent of it's application. There's not much else to say. You can demonize and hyperbole all you want, neither change facts.
Exactly because I know how to AC I know that it's nothing but learnt routine. A pointless and silly one. Every ability has an intended charge / cast time. Having to charge up WB is the compromise for it's high damage and knock back. Not so you can skip that and instantly cast another ability on top of that. If that cast time is too long then that's a matter of balance / fixing it but this way you're just abusing a mechanic to create unfair combat that nobody should have to put up with.
Basically you're saying "Yes, we cheat, so what? You can do it too so stop whining." (how about it, dedicate your entire post to this line and ignore everything else again? It wouldn't surprise me)
So did you have anything meaningful to say or was tackling irrelevant formulations with your literalism all there is to these "arguments"? Saying "you have no idea" is not how arguing works. And by doing so you of course always conveniently forget to respond to any real arguments in hopes it won't come up again.alex394053 wrote: »Absolutely not! It brings depth and complexity to combat, making skill quite an important factor in a fight
What do you mean by depth and complexity? Please clarify. Every anim cancel proponent talks about these mystic "depths" all the time. But in reality it has the only effect of earning some extra AP on newbies' ignorance. This feature as is mentioned earlier is totally undocumented.
First and foremost, noobies by their very nature are easy to put down. They're most likely new to the game, and lack the experience to actually put up a fight. Stating obvious facts that are not directly related doesn't prove much of a point.
Ok. Now please justify using 5 abilities in 1 second. No **** they can't put up a fight. What's a "noobie" going to learn from that? And also, what kinda obnoxious combat is that? Everything has it's intended channel and cast times not so you can cancel them out for even more abilities. At the very least this needs some reasonable tweaks.
Did you read the part when I said there's a 0.9s cooldown on skills? AC and weaving does not allow that to be bypassed. Nothing does. No one can cast 5 abilities in 1s. What it does do is allow others actions such as light/heavy attacks, dodge rolls, weapon swaps, and blocks to be used during that GCD to maximize actions per second.
I exaggerated to get a point across but you can very well stack attacks on top of each other with the next ability instantly being ready. Again, what's a noobie going to learn from a beatdown like that? Nothing. And lets be honest: this was never intended to be in the game the way it is abused now.
My point is that there exists a learning curve for new players with or without AC. Should we give every lvl10 that wanders into Cyrodiil instant access to all skills, passives, and mail them a set of Gold gear too?
Going all "Won't somebody think of the noobies..." Is just a distraction. It's an appeal to emotion when facts are absent. That sort of exaggeration just fuels ignorance. Talking up 5 skills in 1s when it's impossible is fear mongering, and frankly it doesn't help your case.
Skill involves things such as precise aim, fast reaction time, decision making and tactics. Removing AC or tweaking it better would have no impact on any of these things.
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Asmael✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Strider_Roshin wrote: »Animation canceling is what makes the combat of this game enjoyable. Without it, the combat would feel too slow paced.
There is no combat with animation canceling. It means instant death for me.
You should probably ask to nerf light attacks and bash then, because that's all AC offers your attacker in that case.alex394053 wrote: »Absolutely not! It brings depth and complexity to combat, making skill quite an important factor in a fight
What do you mean by depth and complexity? Please clarify. Every anim cancel proponent talks about these mystic "depths" all the time. But in reality it has the only effect of earning some extra AP on newbies' ignorance. This feature as is mentioned earlier is totally undocumented.
First and foremost, noobies by their very nature are easy to put down. They're most likely new to the game, and lack the experience to actually put up a fight. Stating obvious facts that are not directly related doesn't prove much of a point.
Ok. Now please justify using 5 abilities in 1 second. No **** they can't put up a fight. What's a "noobie" going to learn from that? And also, what kinda obnoxious combat is that? Everything has it's intended channel and cast times not so you can cancel them out for even more abilities. At the very least this needs some reasonable tweaks.
Did you read the part when I said there's a 0.9s cooldown on skills? AC and weaving does not allow that to be bypassed. Nothing does. No one can cast 5 abilities in 1s. What it does do is allow others actions such as light/heavy attacks, dodge rolls, weapon swaps, and blocks to be used during that GCD to maximize actions per second.
I exaggerated to get a point across but you can very well stack attacks on top of each other with the next ability instantly being ready. Again, what's a noobie going to learn from a beatdown like that? Nothing. And lets be honest: this was never intended to be in the game the way it is abused now.
My point is that there exists a learning curve for new players with or without AC. Should we give every lvl10 that wanders into Cyrodiil instant access to all skills, passives, and mail them a set of Gold gear too?
Going all "Won't somebody think of the noobies..." Is just a distraction. It's an appeal to emotion when facts are absent. That sort of exaggeration just fuels ignorance. Talking up 5 skills in 1s when it's impossible is fear mongering, and frankly it doesn't help your case.
But nitpicking is supposed to help you? It's a pointless and not to mention ugly layer of mechanic. It has nothing to do with skill to learn the required button mashing. Skill involves things such as precise aim, fast reaction time, decision making and tactics. Removing AC or tweaking it better would have no impact on any of these things.
If you think that animation canceling doesn't involve reaction time and decision making, you have not taken the time to look beyond the surface. It also cannot be done with button mashing. There is a different timing for each ability.
Really? Beacause I totally didn't call it button mashing just to belittle those efforts... It's something that becomes routine and has little to do with what is referred to as skill in a game. There is no further decision making required. Either you can go for dps or you cannot.
If you think it's just routine button mashing with no decision making. It's rather obvious you've no idea how to animation cancel and the extent of it's application. There's not much else to say. You can demonize and hyperbole all you want, neither change facts.
Exactly because I know how to AC I know that it's nothing but learnt routine. A pointless and silly one. Every ability has an intended charge / cast time. Having to charge up WB is the compromise for it's high damage and knock back. Not so you can skip that and instantly cast another ability on top of that. If that cast time is too long then that's a matter of balance / fixing it but this way you're just abusing a mechanic to create unfair combat that nobody should have to put up with.
Basically you're saying "Yes, we cheat, so what? You can do it too so stop whining." (how about it, dedicate your entire post to this line and ignore everything else again? It wouldn't surprise me)
So did you have anything meaningful to say or was tackling irrelevant formulations with your literalism all there is to these "arguments"? Saying "you have no idea" is not how arguing works. And by doing so you of course always conveniently forget to respond to any real arguments in hopes it won't come up again.alex394053 wrote: »Absolutely not! It brings depth and complexity to combat, making skill quite an important factor in a fight
What do you mean by depth and complexity? Please clarify. Every anim cancel proponent talks about these mystic "depths" all the time. But in reality it has the only effect of earning some extra AP on newbies' ignorance. This feature as is mentioned earlier is totally undocumented.
First and foremost, noobies by their very nature are easy to put down. They're most likely new to the game, and lack the experience to actually put up a fight. Stating obvious facts that are not directly related doesn't prove much of a point.
Ok. Now please justify using 5 abilities in 1 second. No **** they can't put up a fight. What's a "noobie" going to learn from that? And also, what kinda obnoxious combat is that? Everything has it's intended channel and cast times not so you can cancel them out for even more abilities. At the very least this needs some reasonable tweaks.
Did you read the part when I said there's a 0.9s cooldown on skills? AC and weaving does not allow that to be bypassed. Nothing does. No one can cast 5 abilities in 1s. What it does do is allow others actions such as light/heavy attacks, dodge rolls, weapon swaps, and blocks to be used during that GCD to maximize actions per second.
I exaggerated to get a point across but you can very well stack attacks on top of each other with the next ability instantly being ready. Again, what's a noobie going to learn from a beatdown like that? Nothing. And lets be honest: this was never intended to be in the game the way it is abused now.
My point is that there exists a learning curve for new players with or without AC. Should we give every lvl10 that wanders into Cyrodiil instant access to all skills, passives, and mail them a set of Gold gear too?
Going all "Won't somebody think of the noobies..." Is just a distraction. It's an appeal to emotion when facts are absent. That sort of exaggeration just fuels ignorance. Talking up 5 skills in 1s when it's impossible is fear mongering, and frankly it doesn't help your case.
Skill involves things such as precise aim, fast reaction time, decision making and tactics. Removing AC or tweaking it better would have no impact on any of these things.
Yeah, so...
You don't know how AC works.PC EU - Zahraji of the Void, aka "Kitty", the fluffiest salmon genocider in town.
Poke @AsmaeI (last letter is uppercase "i") on PC EU or Asmael#9325 on Discord and receive a meow today.1 -
Stillian✭✭✭No let it staySkill involves things such as precise aim, fast reaction time, decision making and tactics. Removing AC or tweaking it better would have no impact on any of these things.
Skill also involves such thing as timing. AC has nothing to do with button smashing. If you can time your weaves (got skill) you get a dps boost.Elitist Scum Guild PC EU0 -
Inarre✭✭✭✭✭
✭If its about getting good, why are there no resources and lists for millisecond timing for each attack/block/bash/light attack etc sequence? No player shares their macros. In that sense it's a lot like telling players to get good, but then hiding all of the deltia and sypher builds so new players have to spend hours testing and gathering data.0 -
Destruent✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭No let it stayIf its about getting good, why are there no resources and lists for millisecond timing for each attack/block/bash/light attack etc sequence? No player shares their macros. In that sense it's a lot like telling players to get good, but then hiding all of the deltia and sypher builds so new players have to spend hours testing and gathering data.
wtf? There are lots of great builds available on the internet. Just search them and you'll find everything you need. You can even ask them ingame or here with a pm.
And pls stop with that macro-****. Maybe noone shares them bc most players don't use/need macros??Noobplar1 -
Nyx2✭✭✭✭Yes get rid of itSkill involves things such as precise aim, fast reaction time, decision making and tactics. Removing AC or tweaking it better would have no impact on any of these things.
Skill also involves such thing as timing. AC has nothing to do with button smashing. If you can time your weaves (got skill) you get a dps boost.
I'm really not sure what to say to this unwillingness to read.Really? Beacause I totally didn't call it button mashing just to belittle those efforts...
If this and "you just don't understand AC!!!!" is all this boils down to, why bother making a post? You ignore any arguments that conflict with your bias anyways. How is that supposed to result to anything? If you skip cast times that has nothing to do with just dps. That's called abusing mechanics. Even if that wouldn't be the case and you just do your "normal" weaves, that's still not how the game is intended to work. It looks ridiculous and so is this play style.
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CJohnson81✭✭✭✭notimetocare wrote: »I see 2 options:
a) Get rid of it.
b) Include it in the beginners tutorial, so everyone knows how it works.
I play since beta and have no clue how to use animation canceling.
Tutorials for all games are bad... Check out Lefty_Lucy's video on animation cancelling. Far better than any tutorial ZoS could put out
Not worth the time to look at this video.
I refuse to learn this technique because i'm still convinced it's a form of cheating.
The thing is, it's so simple, you probably do it all the time. It's what allows you to jump out of the way when an attack is coming. Otherwise you would just stand there while you finish your own attack animation.Huor Melwasul - Archdemon, The Demons of Light - Warlock, Hufflepuff House - ADXB1 - NAI'm only updating this because we're commenting on a thread about signatures. Give me awesomes!0
