Shield Breaker - AKA "I win button"

ToRelax

Tankqull wrote: »

Xeniph wrote: »

Xeven wrote: »

Lets talk about what a light armor shield guy can do against this. In a 1v1 he would have to run an instant burst heal and keep pressure on the guy. Sorcs dont have one so they'll now be forcd to use resto. Armor doesnt help. He CANNOT drop his shield because then he will get wrecked with everything else. It's a 1 button hard counter, I win button.

What about all the bow users camping spawn, sniping anyone with a shield? What do we do about that? If this set stays like this, Light Armor will die in PvP, and with it, Magicka Builds will die as well.

Remove shield stacking.

Remove this set, make it have a cooldown, or give it a shield debuff instead.

Or I tell you what... Make Light mitigation equal to Medium, remove all shields, and give us a magicka Vigor morph. I'll roll with that...

but this... this gives us zero options...

While I don't agree with your opinion about the set being OP, I do agree that it's not the solution.

Currently a Sorc can achieve 14-16k Hardened wards without sacrificing any dps. This gives them 30k-32k effective health, renders all crits and most bleed/dot damage moot. Tie that with the massive buff they got in 1.6 being able to apply a new shield over a damaged one, looking at it objectively, stacking is not the only issue.

No medium, let alone light armored person should have 30k+ health (14-16k of it being immune to so much stuff), in a zone where the average health pool sits around 16-22k, without significant investment into armor, health and survivability. Regardless of class, playstyle.

What pvp in this game needs is proper debuff and skill lockout abilities. Offensive purges, targeted silences, skill lockouts all immune to CC break. Allowing for skilled gameplay. Also, shields should not be able to attain such high numbers and be immune to anything or be able to be stacked or rewrote.

I completely agree with one poster I read propose shields being put on the current buff table. Ie.. Major shield, Minor shield and preventing them from being refreshed until they have expired.

thats in pve - in any pvp area those numbers are down to 6-8k im at the lower 7k reach as i allways preferred higher dmg and mana sustain over max magica this includes absolutly nothing in life so the total amount of "healthpool" is at 20-25k. so your numbers are a lindslide away from reality. those numbers where even impossible before 1.7 without cheating in form of multiple mundi and magica inflation by overload.

Nah, I did have a 14k Hardened Ward in 1.6/2.0.
But now it's 10k, and ergo I'd need around 50k magicka for a 15k shield.

Septimus_Magna wrote: »

Alcast wrote: »

Xeven wrote: »

This is not counter play. This is toxic game design. This is an I win button.

There is an easy fix, dont spam shields like there is no tomorrow
Hint: If there is no shield up, shieldbreaker does no damage

And you die from the ability and light attack damage in 5 seconds, how can you consider that to be a counter?

Exactly, why does this not go in some people's head? I would say that's probably the same players who never managed to break a Sorc's shield on their own in the last update, but I know that's not true...

Angarato wrote: »

i've seen a sorc with shields tanking an emperor. its *** silly. nobody likes it when a counter shows up to their overpowered playstyle. theres also a new set that gives people that wear it insane stealth detection. it counters my entire class. how about you equip that? using shield breaker i cant use any other 5 set bonus. its useless against people without shields.

you relied too much on your shields to protect you. you ask for a medium armor breaker but you dont need 1. im squishy as *** and our dodge roll got nerfed HARD and you dont even need to use a 5set to benefit from that nerf like we do.

Someone should never have become emperor then.
But if you still didn't understand the real problem with this set: Again, it circumvents both our defense and our healing.
That is as if I had a Clannfear (thx for the idea, made me laugh, whoever said it), that can see through Cloak, never deaggros, follows you everywhere and if you are healing yourself, it does extra damage for 6 seconds (enough to make the heal worthless).

Angarato wrote: »

or you know. try not to get hit all the time? you want to be a tank in light armor yet have all the benefits of light armor. things have strenghts and weaknesses. sorcerers can wear heavy armor in this game, you choose light so you can do more damage. deal with your choice or adjust that choice.

Most Sorcs I see in this thread have been among the top players in 1.4/1.5 already. I think you are the one who doesn't have a clue and just toss around random phrases you hear from other people or games.

Force-Siphon

Shield breaker? Meh I mean the threat of it has forced sorcs to change builds but tbh right now sorcs take more skill then they did before and shield breaker is not the primary reason...it is the change to shields and bolt escape. It is a fun challenge in this new environment trying to theory craft the class and try new things...I suggest ppl mess around with their builds more before we just instantly jump to conclusions about one niche set.

Tbh I've seen some high burst builds in IC already against me and they are not using shield breaker. I think sorcs got very used to being able to shield up and use bolt as THE way to outlast opponents and it's not always possible anymore. This doesn't mean the class is dead by any means, it just means that there are more moving parts to the class and skill is more important.

And a lesson on sorcerer for those who have posted who clearly don't know how the class really works: sorcs aren't running 14-16k hardened wards right now...even with maxing out bastion. Those numbers are going to include annulment which only deals with magic attacks. I also don't use healing ward in 1.7. This "stacking" for me is the same amount of shields as say...a dk using igneous and healing ward. And yes we spec into one skill for both defense and dps which makes us different than that same dk (who doesn't rely simply on igneous bc of good class mitigation passives) ...but we also are the only class without a spammable dps ability...so we are refreshing shields and defending while having to SET UP burst dps...something that other classes don't have to do. This requires more moving parts. If we all went heavy tank magicka we would have sustain issues and dps issues with no spammable strong dps and without the passives from light armor that help with the burst, again, we have to SET UP.

This is from the perspective of someone who solos a lot in IC...can't speak to Sorc group builds yet as I usually just run with some friends if I am grouped right now.

Rust_in_Peace

Xeven wrote: »

This is not counter play. This is toxic game design. This is an I win button.

So you died to light attacks and that's the games fault?

Sorry bud, learn to play issue.

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO

A question to all Sorcs as I don't play your class and my Magica Nightblades don't use Healing Ward till I'm near death as it's strength is increased. How are stamina builds to kill you CCing, cause with the CC immunity you regen stamina to keep Breaking and when you're up you can spam that shield I have to break Hardening and Healing Ward with base level damage and if you have the power for that you don't have the regen to keep it up.

All defensive powers has a draw back. Shields never had one till now nothing bypassed shields. Going full magic with 14k health in Cyrodiil and get mad when you die, really? Five shadow walker is a must for my main as I try to keep high damage for shield spammer. I need to use magic that I don't have much of and stand still to get the resources back with Shadow Walker, rally and Vigor I hold off death sitting on my Bow tab targeting with much higher damage by only running 2 Shadow Walker was easier but not at all survivable when hit. Compromise was needed on my part learn your role of you drop nuke damage you need to be as far away as possible.

Scyantific

Lmao to everyone saying L2Block and L2Dodge.

What happens when you run out of stamina when all someone has to do is spam a light attack? Can't CC because stam dps have enough stamina to break free and still spam skills.

I'm not saying that shield stacking doesn't need a counter or a fix but a no-cooldown bonus is pretty ridiculous. It's as if ZoS said "we're going to punish you for using a game mechanic."

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO

Scyantific wrote: »

Lmao to everyone saying L2Block and L2Dodge.

What happens when you run out of stamina when all someone has to do is spam a light attack? Can't CC because stam dps have enough stamina to break free and still spam skills.

I'm not saying that shield stacking doesn't need a counter or a fix but a no-cooldown bonus is pretty ridiculous. It's as if ZoS said "we're going to punish you for using a game mechanic."

Umm the hell we don't 22k stamina 2k regen blocking knock backs like fire reach and WB with you are low and stamina and can't afford a stun. Blocking Knock backs and rolling roots while attacking and healing takes it toll, yes CC breaking is cheaper for us but when you add attacking, healing and blocking big attacks and CCs it adds up fast.

Derra

olsborg wrote: »

Give the procc a 4 second cooldown like most of the other sets, zos is dumb.

I think even 1s would do fine. Currently the set encourages lightattack spam with bows. This is the only form where the setdmg is not counterable without making significant sacrifices (about 4 skillslots have to change for most builds).

Edit: A clear visual indicator would help too.

Angarato

Force-Siphon wrote: »

Shield breaker? Meh I mean the threat of it has forced sorcs to change builds but tbh right now sorcs take more skill then they did before and shield breaker is not the primary reason...it is the change to shields and bolt escape. It is a fun challenge in this new environment trying to theory craft the class and try new things...I suggest ppl mess around with their builds more before we just instantly jump to conclusions about one niche set.

Tbh I've seen some high burst builds in IC already against me and they are not using shield breaker. I think sorcs got very used to being able to shield up and use bolt as THE way to outlast opponents and it's not always possible anymore. This doesn't mean the class is dead by any means, it just means that there are more moving parts to the class and skill is more important.

And a lesson on sorcerer for those who have posted who clearly don't know how the class really works: sorcs aren't running 14-16k hardened wards right now...even with maxing out bastion. Those numbers are going to include annulment which only deals with magic attacks. I also don't use healing ward in 1.7. This "stacking" for me is the same amount of shields as say...a dk using igneous and healing ward. And yes we spec into one skill for both defense and dps which makes us different than that same dk (who doesn't rely simply on igneous bc of good class mitigation passives) ...but we also are the only class without a spammable dps ability...so we are refreshing shields and defending while having to SET UP burst dps...something that other classes don't have to do. This requires more moving parts. If we all went heavy tank magicka we would have sustain issues and dps issues with no spammable strong dps and without the passives from light armor that help with the burst, again, we have to SET UP.

This is from the perspective of someone who solos a lot in IC...can't speak to Sorc group builds yet as I usually just run with some friends if I am grouped right now.

wish more people had your attitude. changes will always happen in mmo's i've been playing them for 15 years. been buffed/nerfed/changed completely too many times to keep track. you can either whine about it or figure out what works in the new patch and have fun.

am I the only 1 that has had tons and tons of fun since the last patch? i dont get *** 1 shotted anymore and i also cant dodgeroll 20 times to get away from people. both of these things were stupid. i still can get bursted down pretty hard when i *** up and i can still kill someone quickly and get away. seems fine to me.

Nivzruo_ESO

Sorcs mad they can get killed now, lol. I warned ya'll sorcs way back to stop making 1vX videos or you'll get nerfed into oblivion like the talon, SnB, Banner DKs of days past. Well the day has come enjoy.

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO

A cooldown would kill the set and you know that. The heal when you cast Healing Ward would heal for most if not all the damage putting us back to square one 2k damage on a 6 second cool down is udder trash a 6 second cool down would need a big increase on that damage and then you will say the same thing.

How I play on my Shadow Mage HoT ticking always Swallow Souls, Mutagen and a Quick Siphon (Healing Springs and Ward as needed) yes I use my whole second bar just for heals cause magic has far more options for healing and you have weaker armor so why not have mad heals down.

You want raw power on both bars then you deserve to die. Let me nuke and use just one heal and hope I live

Alcast

I must say I really enjoy all the tears from Sorcs. And on PTS Sorcs said it will affect Sorcs the least LoL

Skill>Shield>Skill>Shield>Skill>Shield aint working anymore

Force-Siphon

To me when fighting someone with shield breaker sometimes the best defense is good offense...as in putting pressure on them and dictating the terms of the fight where you make it as hard as possible for them to just sit there and light attack you. This is easier said then done and we will all get plenty of practice I'm sure...but I don't feel like just trying to heal through the dmg with numerous heals is always going to be the trick...

Also I feel like we don't have a grasp yet of how many people are even going to run this set...I can see stam NBs running it but it seems the stam meta might be going toward heavy armor with black rose for example. ATM I don't think many DKs are running it bc there are heavy armor builds that provide tankiness with good burst (sribes' build for example seems to be part of the early meta). Again who knows how this will shape out.

I've found that while trying to figure out builds, Sorc still offers great potential because of the class utility. Potential to me is the key word and I hope Sorc becomes less of a fotm roll that someone makes for instant god mode and more of a roll that someone makes because they see it as a skilled craft that takes dedication and experience to master. With this update if I wanna just run around 3 shot bursting I'm not going to roll Sorc and I think that speaks to a move toward more balance.

Also: 10/10 on the death recap shield breaker icon, I lol'd when I saw it.

lifefrombelowb14_ESO

Force-Siphon wrote: »

To me when fighting someone with shield breaker sometimes the best defense is good offense...as in putting pressure on them and dictating the terms of the fight where you make it as hard as possible for them to just sit there and light attack you. This is easier said then done and we will all get plenty of practice I'm sure...but I don't feel like just trying to heal through the dmg with numerous heals is always going to be the trick...

Also I feel like we don't have a grasp yet of how many people are even going to run this set...I can see stam NBs running it but it seems the stam meta might be going toward heavy armor with black rose for example. ATM I don't think many DKs are running it bc there are heavy armor builds that provide tankiness with good burst (sribes' build for example seems to be part of the early meta). Again who knows how this will shape out.

I've found that while trying to figure out builds, Sorc still offers great potential because of the class utility. Potential to me is the key word and I hope Sorc becomes less of a fotm roll that someone makes for instant god mode and more of a roll that someone makes because they see it as a skilled craft that takes dedication and experience to master. With this update if I wanna just run around 3 shot bursting I'm not going to roll Sorc and I think that speaks to a move toward more balance.

Also: 10/10 on the death recap shield breaker icon, I lol'd when I saw it.

I fought you a couple of times up in the memorial district. You seemed to be giving it as much as getting it. It felt way more like a fight then a I'm gonna have to chase you across Tamriel or get insta-nuked by Cfrags weaving fight. I wish people were more like you and actually learned the class.

Ishammael

Psilent wrote: »

Xeven wrote: »

Lets talk about what a light armor shield guy can do against this. In a 1v1 he would have to run an instant burst heal and keep pressure on the guy. Sorcs dont have one so they'll now be forcd to use resto. Armor doesnt help. He CANNOT drop his shield because then he will get wrecked with everything else. It's a 1 button hard counter, I win button.

What about all the bow users camping spawn, sniping anyone with a shield? What do we do about that? If this set stays like this, Light Armor will die in PvP, and with it, Magicka Builds will die as well.

Remove shield stacking.

Remove this set, make it have a cooldown, or give it a shield debuff instead.

Or I tell you what... Make Light mitigation equal to Medium, remove all shields, and give us a magicka Vigor morph. I'll roll with that...

but this... this gives us zero options...

I've been forced into resto staff on my DK due to how pathetic dragon's blood is now. Rapid Regen and Blessing of Restoration are much better heals.

Yeah this is a huge problem. Have found that the heals from burning embers, flame lash, and draw essence are better than GDB. Basically, with magicka DK right now you have to be in full offens mode all the time. Use volatile plus igneous for increased healing received. (42%)

CP5

Ishammael wrote: »

Psilent wrote: »

Xeven wrote: »

Lets talk about what a light armor shield guy can do against this. In a 1v1 he would have to run an instant burst heal and keep pressure on the guy. Sorcs dont have one so they'll now be forcd to use resto. Armor doesnt help. He CANNOT drop his shield because then he will get wrecked with everything else. It's a 1 button hard counter, I win button.

What about all the bow users camping spawn, sniping anyone with a shield? What do we do about that? If this set stays like this, Light Armor will die in PvP, and with it, Magicka Builds will die as well.

Remove shield stacking.

Remove this set, make it have a cooldown, or give it a shield debuff instead.

Or I tell you what... Make Light mitigation equal to Medium, remove all shields, and give us a magicka Vigor morph. I'll roll with that...

but this... this gives us zero options...

I've been forced into resto staff on my DK due to how pathetic dragon's blood is now. Rapid Regen and Blessing of Restoration are much better heals.

Yeah this is a huge problem. Have found that the heals from burning embers, flame lash, and draw essence are better than GDB. Basically, with magicka DK right now you have to be in full offens mode all the time. Use volatile plus igneous for increased healing received. (42%)

Here's a problem most people will gladly overlook in order to enjoy their hate for sorcs. If you use igneous then you'll take damage that you can't mitigate, and any of your allies nearby will take some as well if an enemy is using the shield breaker set. And if you also add in healing ward then people will be more prone to getting killed when they get a shield, regardless of if they had any say in getting it. But I agree, zos should look at how each class is intended to survive in combat and make sure that they can. And give each class choices in the matter.

ToRelax

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »

A cooldown would kill the set and you know that. The heal when you cast Healing Ward would heal for most if not all the damage putting us back to square one 2k damage on a 6 second cool down is udder trash a 6 second cool down would need a big increase on that damage and then you will say the same thing.

How I play on my Shadow Mage HoT ticking always Swallow Souls, Mutagen and a Quick Siphon (Healing Springs and Ward as needed) yes I use my whole second bar just for heals cause magic has far more options for healing and you have weaker armor so why not have mad heals down.

You want raw power on both bars then you deserve to die. Let me nuke and use just one heal and hope I live

Wich is precisely the reason why you can hardly balance the set without letting it hit the mechanic it is meant to counter.

Igglez

I struggle to understand why sorcs feel they need to use shields. I play with sorcs who don't use them at all, and I play as a Magika DK in light armour and don't use hardened armour or igneous shields. I just mist form out of trouble or CC, I prefer to use my limited slots on more creative things than defence buffs.

Sorcs shield stacking then bolt escaping away if they can't win is the most annoying type of fight in pvp and I'm glad ZOS have forced them to rethink there approach.

CP5

Igglez wrote: »

I struggle to understand why sorcs feel they need to use shields. I play with sorcs who don't use them at all, and I play as a Magika DK in light armour and don't use hardened armour or igneous shields. I just mist form out of trouble or CC, I prefer to use my limited slots on more creative things than defence buffs.

Sorcs shield stacking then bolt escaping away if they can't win is the most annoying type of fight in pvp and I'm glad ZOS have forced them to rethink there approach.

Forcing people away from a build in such a forced way is short sighted and poor design. And just wondering, what kind of build do you use with your sorc?

ToRelax

Igglez wrote: »

I struggle to understand why sorcs feel they need to use shields. I play with sorcs who don't use them at all, and I play as a Magika DK in light armour and don't use hardened armour or igneous shields. I just mist form out of trouble or CC, I prefer to use my limited slots on more creative things than defence buffs.

Sorcs shield stacking then bolt escaping away if they can't win is the most annoying type of fight in pvp and I'm glad ZOS have forced them to rethink there approach.

I had a small group / duo build in 1.5 with Healing Ward being it's only shield (and functioning as burst heal). But that relied on Resource efficiency by using Critical Surge and Absorption Field.
I would take your word for it and be interested how it works. Problem is, from all I know you'd most likely run in a larger group and/or face smaller odds than my own, while likely be a far less experienced player. Not meant to insult, I'd just also want to know such a build's limits.

Morvul

olsborg wrote: »

Give the procc a 4 second cooldown like most of the other sets, zos is dumb.

as a shield-stacking sorc, I'd argue for a 3 second cooldown (with 4, the set might no longer be worth it at all...)
But SOMETHING needs to be changed about it. it certainly is too strong atm

Digiman

This is really annoying every other class rejoicing over sorcerer tears because of shield stacking an ISSUE THEY DESIGNED WHEN THEY CRIED ABOUT LIGHT ARMOR BEING AS STRONG AS HEAVY. Despite the Sorcerer community saying 1/2 the strength of Heavy armor would be sufficient the rest community wasn't happy till it was 1/4 of heavy armor, essentially wearing nothing with no increase to magical DPS either.

Cause of that every sorcerer had to make a build catered around to the SS Enterprise inorder to live. Since putting anything into health would hurt your DPS which as a sorcerer you lacked for in instant supply. It was always going to be Shields up.

You had to go shield to proc Crystal frags for a burst setup.

Again Shield breaker set just shows the hatred the developers have for the sorcerer class and how they want to pigeon hole everyone into stamina builds to make their lives easier.

And to those rejoicing, do you think all sorcerers enjoy have to dedicate 3 slots just to survive in PvP? Because they don't have self heals and the one that's supposed too is on CD and no longer works with DoTs. It's either healing staff or go home if you want to last in PvP as a magicka range DPS sorcerer or use pets while being forced to dedicate additional slots on your other bar while you bolt like a bunny.

Eitherway I am banking on management reviewing the combat design team pink slips in hand.

Because this set clearly indicates their blatant laziness and bias into a problem they created by listening to the fools who cried and created shield stacking because of wanting Light armor to not protect while not giving you the burst damage to compensate.

Also why can't this set also effect blocking either? I think it's fair play that block holders also suffer along with us for equalities sake. They want to break magicka defense they should also want to break stamina defense also.

Never seen a game treat class balance like this so badly. It would just be easier to roll a DK or Paladin and not have to deal with this every patch.

mr_wazzabi

In 1.6, as the consoles currently are, shield stacking sorcs are the hardest class to kill. Fighting one head on with guns blazing makes you run out of resources and only take out 1/4 of his life, while he kills you with 2 crystal frags. You need 3 guys to kill one, while hoping he doesn't bolt escape everywhere.

ToRelax

mr_wazzabi wrote: »

In 1.6, as the consoles currently are, shield stacking sorcs are the hardest class to kill. Fighting one head on with guns blazing makes you run out of resources and only take out 1/4 of his life, while he kills you with 2 crystal frags. You need 3 guys to kill one, while hoping he doesn't bolt escape everywhere.

I would agree with you had you not admitted to run out of resources trying to kill one player. That just shows there is a l2p issue.

milesrodneymcneely2_ESO

Xeniph wrote: »

While I don't agree with your opinion about the set being OP, I do agree that it's not the solution.

Currently a Sorc can achieve 14-16k Hardened wards without sacrificing any dps. This gives them 30k-32k effective health, renders all crits and most bleed/dot damage moot. Tie that with the massive buff they got in 1.6 being able to apply a new shield over a damaged one, looking at it objectively, stacking is not the only issue.

No medium, let alone light armored person should have 30k+ health (14-16k of it being immune to so much stuff), in a zone where the average health pool sits around 16-22k, without significant investment into armor, health and survivability. Regardless of class, playstyle.

What pvp in this game needs is proper debuff and skill lockout abilities. Offensive purges, targeted silences, skill lockouts all immune to CC break. Allowing for skilled gameplay. Also, shields should not be able to attain such high numbers and be immune to anything or be able to be stacked or rewrote.

I completely agree with one poster I read propose shields being put on the current buff table. Ie.. Major shield, Minor shield and preventing them from being refreshed until they have expired.

Fantastic breakdown, Xeniph. Very well put.

You know, I actually think the latest patch helped somewhat. I had been more or less avoiding PvP because between the lag stuttering and the extremely low time to kill, I really felt like I had no time to learn the flow of combat before I was dead and "horse simulatoring" back to the action.

But now that the time to kill has been lengthened and the numbers are smaller, I'm having a BLAST. In the past few days, I've been able to get in there and mix it up. I've been shocked to find that I must have stumbled upon a decent DPS build, because I feel I've been more or less dominating single opponents. And in instances where I've been overwhelmed, my back bar has given me the ability to escape.

Of course, I'm PAINFULLY aware that the truly skilled players are having it out in the Imperial City and the second anyone that really knows their stuff locks onto me, I'm a dead man. But I guess what I'm trying to say is that the "flow" feels much better now. I feel like I can react to what my opponents are actually doing (and force them to react to me). So far since the patch, I haven't found myself dead out of the blue wondering what happened, only to find my combat log filled with a truckload of attacks that were never visible in the first place.

And THAT, my friends, is definitely a step in the right direction. But what Xen and Renaldo are suggesting is another step that needs to be taken. The Major/Minor buff system has been GREAT for this game. Might as well get all the mileage out of it we can.

mr_wazzabi

Xeven wrote: »

Lets talk about what a light armor shield guy can do against this. In a 1v1 he would have to run an instant burst heal and keep pressure on the guy. Sorcs dont have one so they'll now be forcd to use resto. Armor doesnt help. He CANNOT drop his shield because then he will get wrecked with everything else. It's a 1 button hard counter, I win button.

What about all the bow users camping spawn, sniping anyone with a shield? What do we do about that? If this set stays like this, Light Armor will die in PvP, and with it, Magicka Builds will die as well.

Remove shield stacking.

Remove this set, make it have a cooldown, or give it a shield debuff instead.

Or I tell you what... Make Light mitigation equal to Medium, remove all shields, and give us a magicka Vigor morph. I'll roll with that...

but this... this gives us zero options...

If they make light armor equal to medium and remove shield stacking, that'll be a fair playing field. As it stands now, shield stacking sorcs are flying tanks with high dps. No class should be like that.

mr_wazzabi

ToRelax wrote: »

mr_wazzabi wrote: »

In 1.6, as the consoles currently are, shield stacking sorcs are the hardest class to kill. Fighting one head on with guns blazing makes you run out of resources and only take out 1/4 of his life, while he kills you with 2 crystal frags. You need 3 guys to kill one, while hoping he doesn't bolt escape everywhere.

I would agree with you had you not admitted to run out of resources trying to kill one player. That just shows there is a l2p issue.

I'm exaggeratig with the run out of resources part, but i literally hit them with everything i've got. Ultimate, wrecking blow, all damage buffs. That only scratches off 10-20% of his life. It's broken. Against other medium armour players, they would be at least half if not 3/4 dead.

CP5

mr_wazzabi wrote: »

Xeven wrote: »

Lets talk about what a light armor shield guy can do against this. In a 1v1 he would have to run an instant burst heal and keep pressure on the guy. Sorcs dont have one so they'll now be forcd to use resto. Armor doesnt help. He CANNOT drop his shield because then he will get wrecked with everything else. It's a 1 button hard counter, I win button.

What about all the bow users camping spawn, sniping anyone with a shield? What do we do about that? If this set stays like this, Light Armor will die in PvP, and with it, Magicka Builds will die as well.

Remove shield stacking.

Remove this set, make it have a cooldown, or give it a shield debuff instead.

Or I tell you what... Make Light mitigation equal to Medium, remove all shields, and give us a magicka Vigor morph. I'll roll with that...

but this... this gives us zero options...

If they make light armor equal to medium and remove shield stacking, that'll be a fair playing field. As it stands now, shield stacking sorcs are flying tanks with high dps. No class should be like that.

I personally feel light armor should keep its unique traits. People wearing it have to look elsewhere for survivability since they can't reduce incoming damage passively making heals less beneficial and that does add to diversity. What's missing is a way to damage shields more effectively and this set is broken in its purpose.

Lets say, for example, if we had a damage type that did little to health but always applied a dot to shields that would quickly eat through them. That would be something and someone would give up skills for this ability, but an armor set that anyone can just wear that is powered by basic attacks, is excessive.

And besides shield stacking, what other successful sorcerer builds have you seen? ZOS seems pretty inclined to keep this meta build the most effective for the class while letting the rest of the skills remain, as they are.

Paradox

Digiman wrote: »

This is really annoying every other class rejoicing over sorcerer tears because of shield stacking an ISSUE THEY DESIGNED WHEN THEY CRIED ABOUT LIGHT ARMOR BEING AS STRONG AS HEAVY. Despite the Sorcerer community saying 1/2 the strength of Heavy armor would be sufficient the rest community wasn't happy till it was 1/4 of heavy armor, essentially wearing nothing with no increase to magical DPS either.

Cause of that every sorcerer had to make a build catered around to the SS Enterprise inorder to live. Since putting anything into health would hurt your DPS which as a sorcerer you lacked for in instant supply. It was always going to be Shields up.

You had to go shield to proc Crystal frags for a burst setup.

Again Shield breaker set just shows the hatred the developers have for the sorcerer class and how they want to pigeon hole everyone into stamina builds to make their lives easier.

And to those rejoicing, do you think all sorcerers enjoy have to dedicate 3 slots just to survive in PvP? Because they don't have self heals and the one that's supposed too is on CD and no longer works with DoTs. It's either healing staff or go home if you want to last in PvP as a magicka range DPS sorcerer or use pets while being forced to dedicate additional slots on your other bar while you bolt like a bunny.

Eitherway I am banking on management reviewing the combat design team pink slips in hand.

Because this set clearly indicates their blatant laziness and bias into a problem they created by listening to the fools who cried and created shield stacking because of wanting Light armor to not protect while not giving you the burst damage to compensate.

Also why can't this set also effect blocking either? I think it's fair play that block holders also suffer along with us for equalities sake. They want to break magicka defense they should also want to break stamina defense also.

Never seen a game treat class balance like this so badly. It would just be easier to roll a DK or Paladin and not have to deal with this every patch.

LOL DKs are getting consistently nerfed. We have approximately one playstyle that is 'good' now.

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO

Digiman wrote: »

This is really annoying every other class rejoicing over sorcerer tears because of shield stacking an ISSUE THEY DESIGNED WHEN THEY CRIED ABOUT LIGHT ARMOR BEING AS STRONG AS HEAVY. Despite the Sorcerer community saying 1/2 the strength of Heavy armor would be sufficient the rest community wasn't happy till it was 1/4 of heavy armor, essentially wearing nothing with no increase to magical DPS either.

Cause of that every sorcerer had to make a build catered around to the SS Enterprise inorder to live. Since putting anything into health would hurt your DPS which as a sorcerer you lacked for in instant supply. It was always going to be Shields up.

You had to go shield to proc Crystal frags for a burst setup.

Again Shield breaker set just shows the hatred the developers have for the sorcerer class and how they want to pigeon hole everyone into stamina builds to make their lives easier.

And to those rejoicing, do you think all sorcerers enjoy have to dedicate 3 slots just to survive in PvP? Because they don't have self heals and the one that's supposed too is on CD and no longer works with DoTs. It's either healing staff or go home if you want to last in PvP as a magicka range DPS sorcerer or use pets while being forced to dedicate additional slots on your other bar while you bolt like a bunny.

Eitherway I am banking on management reviewing the combat design team pink slips in hand.

Because this set clearly indicates their blatant laziness and bias into a problem they created by listening to the fools who cried and created shield stacking because of wanting Light armor to not protect while not giving you the burst damage to compensate.

Also why can't this set also effect blocking either? I think it's fair play that block holders also suffer along with us for equalities sake. They want to break magicka defense they should also want to break stamina defense also.

Never seen a game treat class balance like this so badly. It would just be easier to roll a DK or Paladin and not have to deal with this every patch.

Not sure what game you are playing but the nerf to heals the increase of cost for stamina heals 33% increase to sucks worst if your set needs you to roll to get the bonus so roll to prove the set and hope you don't have to roll a root okay. Blocking stopping all stamina regen I sure that hurts stamina builds that use block to mitigate damage with the heavy handed Nightblade Stamina nerf stamina been killed enough as it is.

Light Armor no DPS so that spell penetration is nothing okay. I can see how ignoring resistance hurts your DPS your attacks going thought defenses yea that must suck.

I have a caster I actually use restoration and destruction. Full heals on my restro bar and my Destro is full attack and dark cloak I don't play it much cause stealth cost too much I only YoLo in when farming my next CP so I can log off or I'm just bored. But I don't have these problems in the Imperial City I healed two HoTs (Swallow Souls and Mutation) or three if you count Quick Siphon and Healing and cloak to drop DoTs.

Play anyother TES game Caster use shield but not the whole fight but, heal like crazy just because you can't solo DPS on both bars and perma shield don't mean magic is weak you're willingly ignoring the way magic works so you can burst DPS like a stamina build that's not have magic works.

ToRelax

mr_wazzabi wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

mr_wazzabi wrote: »

In 1.6, as the consoles currently are, shield stacking sorcs are the hardest class to kill. Fighting one head on with guns blazing makes you run out of resources and only take out 1/4 of his life, while he kills you with 2 crystal frags. You need 3 guys to kill one, while hoping he doesn't bolt escape everywhere.

I would agree with you had you not admitted to run out of resources trying to kill one player. That just shows there is a l2p issue.

I'm exaggeratig with the run out of resources part, but i literally hit them with everything i've got. Ultimate, wrecking blow, all damage buffs. That only scratches off 10-20% of his life. It's broken. Against other medium armour players, they would be at least half if not 3/4 dead.

Alright. However, same happened for me against every good player, regardless of class, in 1.6/2.0.
Shieldstacking is too strong, I'll give you that. However, especially Hardened and Healing Ward and also shields in general get a few "nerfs" with 2.1. Doesn't solve the issue exactly, because shields profit from the higher battle spirit mitigation as well. But it reduces it.
Additionally, It seems to be hard to tell for many players when they are actually bringing a shieldstacking Sorc on the defensive and threaten to kill him, because they (1) don't see his health points go down, (2) don't count in that part of their shield is not working against physical damage at all, (3) don't see his stamina pool (and maybe don't observe his stamina actions closely enough), (4) count it as even harder to burst the Sorc down when he casted Healing Ward in case they actually managed to break the shield (bigger shield now) and especially, (5) overestimate how long it takes to burn through his health without shields. Part of that is guesswork, but to me it pretty well explains a lot of the comments about "unkillable" Sorcs who "only spam shields" etc.