Shield Breaker - AKA "I win button"

Omgwtfbbq321

Yesterday I got crystal shareded to the ground, broke to get up, straight into fear. I was then told by someone in area chat that fear, knockdowns and holds have a separate cool downs (CC or what ever its called). Is this true?

I also have very unstable internet, so I'd say you are right about the not breaking free fast enough, to make things worse I am on Xbox.

Soulac

Omgwtfbbq321 wrote: »

Yesterday I got crystal shareded to the ground, broke to get up, straight into fear. I was then told by someone in area chat that fear, knockdowns and holds have a separate cool downs (CC or what ever its called). Is this true?

I also have very unstable internet, so I'd say you are right about the not breaking free fast enough, to make things worse I am on Xbox.

No.

Tankqull

Soulac wrote: »

Omgwtfbbq321 wrote: »

Yesterday I got crystal shareded to the ground, broke to get up, straight into fear. I was then told by someone in area chat that fear, knockdowns and holds have a separate cool downs (CC or what ever its called). Is this true?

I also have very unstable internet, so I'd say you are right about the not breaking free fast enough, to make things worse I am on Xbox.

No.

well not entirly no...

there are several CC types that work entirly differently in regards of immunity timer creation and being effected by timers.

roots: do not create a immunity timer under any circumstance - but are supposed to respect immunity timers wich they most of the time do not do... (chain rooting possible)

disables(petrify, rune prison, agony, luminous shards, fear) does not create an immunity timer if not activly broken - respect cc immunity relativly well (chain ccing poissible if not activly broken by the cc´ed player/npc)

other cc types: apply cc immunity upon breaking and end of their duration - and do respect cc immus quite well

so in regard of what he was observing (under the expectation that it happend that way) its possible thx to lag - wich allows pretty much everything in this game to happen, sadly...

Omgwtfbbq321

Thanks for that, I say my biggest problem is not breaking out of the effect fast enough. (lag or slow reaction) I do notice that sometimes upon being knocked down, I am unable to break, even with full stamina. It seems like a forced timer. (Others I play with that have much more stamina have experienced this as well) This leads to being knocked down again rather quickly. I mainly notice it from NPC guards at keeps and such.

rfennell_ESO

Omgwtfbbq321 wrote: »

A few things I don't understand in this post:

• Out heal shield beaker? I can’t find any healing that comes close to 2,400 a second. (Damage I seem to take from SB)
• Shield stacking being that hard to counter? If the player has huge shields, they have no health or stamina, knock them down, they die easy.
• Sorcs need to stop spamming shield? If their shield is big, then their health/stamina are small. Once knocked down or feared, we cant recast ward and cant break out more than maybe twice, easy death.

People seem to forget:

• - having lots of health and good armor means high damage wont intsta kill you, and you get the benefit of resistance from armor. This also means you can focus on attack and not warding.
• If you have all/mostly light armor and low health, you do get insta killed from high damage, unless you cast shield, which has no mitigation and drops almost instantly anyway forcing a recast. Meaning you aren't *** damage to the enemy and will eventually die from resource depletion.

Any suggestions only dealing with shield breaker? Keeping in mind I have 14k health in cyrodill, I get dropped from SB within a few seconds. Adding health means lowering ward effectiveness, and magika pool. This will just result in my dying from everything else almost instantly, instead of just SB.

Cheers.

Just a couple points.

You don't have to "outheal" shieldbreaker. One heal on top of healing ward will make it far more difficult to spam you down.

On "dealing with shieldbreaker" with only 14k health. Get more health. Many to most are running 20k or more now.

I can guarantee that with 20k health and a heal on top of healing ward you won't be dying from shield breaker much. Just getting 20k+ health makes it a bit harder to get shield broken, regardless of heals.

If you are dead set on the healing ward as the only heal way of sorcing. You can't do a one bolt escape and stand in view method of buying time anymore. You need to use terrain to buy you that time, you need to be moving, ducking behind things like everyone else does. The most annoying thing I can see a shield stacker do is bolt, dodge roll and then totally change their positioning to behind terrain with their 2nd bolt.

Bolting in a straight line away from a shield breaker user (particularly a nightblade who can pursue you) will yield you getting shield broken.

I can tell you (and everyone else whining in the thread) that I abuse the living hell out of shield breaker every chance I get. I pew pew you with light attacks from a bow and I dark cloak while I'm doing it. The sorcs that aren't a kill waiting to happen are either extremely offensive (light attack spam shield breaker still takes time to kill) or use terrain to make it hard to keep them in the light attack fire. The sorcs that are a kill waiting to happen try to only use repositioning with bolt/streak to buy time or try to evade by bolting away in a strait line.

The other point is using healing ward when you are really low on health is also a free kill. To anyone acclimated to using the shield breaker set there isn't a bigger glowing "target me" sign than someone with low health and a red bubble.

There isn't a location within the Imperial City or it's sewers that lacks plenty of locations to line of sight.

Erudition

Shield broken needs to go. It is really stupid to make shields a damage magnet for a class which is tied to light armor when they are magicka based.

Hydrocodone

Shield Breaker is OP. Nerf Cloak.

Derra

I want a magica shieldbreaker

kadar

Xeven wrote: »

I was invited to a dueling guild called Legend. This is the most butthurt group of Non-Sorcs you will ever meet. Anyway I asked for a dual and immediately got one from a Shield Breaker DK, lol... Let's call him "Nate". So my first dual in the guild, I show up to the designated location and he immediately starts light attacking me with shield breaker. I didnt know he was a DK at the time so I immediately dropped a Meteor on his ass, followed by a Crystal Frag & a Mages Fury. He spectacularly exploded.

So he begs and pleads to fight again. He promises not to wear Shield Breaker. He promises to "Block & Jump" to signal when he is ready to fight.

I show up to the designated location... he attacks from stealth with, you guessed it, Shield Breaker. Being a slow poke ass DK I run away to our closest keep. He gives chase, Shield Breaker bow attacks all the way there.

I stop at the front gate where he is met with 4 NPC Gate Guards where he can no longer focus so intently on his left click spam. I promptly switch my bar out with healing ward and mutagen while he is busy with the NPCs. He falls over shortly after with a crystal frag straight to his dome.

True story bro.

This a good story. My favorite part is when you didn't immediately surrender and /bow when he started out using OP Master Race Shield Breaker set.

NordJitsu

My solution:

Shield Breaker would just break shields. Any damage from someone wearing the set would instantly dispell the shield.

It would still be a very powerful set, but you wouldn't be actively PUNISHED for using a mitigation skill. Instead, it would just be countered. Also, you could never actually harm someone by trying to help them (Healing Ward.)

Omgwtfbbq321

rfennell_ESO wrote: »

Just a couple points.

You don't have to "outheal" shieldbreaker. One heal on top of healing ward will make it far more difficult to spam you down.

On "dealing with shieldbreaker" with only 14k health. Get more health. Many to most are running 20k or more now.

I have, I ran around with 22k. It was stupid. wearing all light armor with 22k health meant I was getting 3 shot by most people. My ward was only 5k and my damage was terrible. With most people having battle leveling to 30k health meant I couldn't dps them down faster than they did it to me.

I can guarantee that with 20k health and a heal on top of healing ward you won't be dying from shield breaker much. Just getting 20k+ health makes it a bit harder to get shield broken, regardless of heals.

If you are dead set on the healing ward as the only heal way of sorcing. You can't do a one bolt escape and stand in view method of buying time anymore. You need to use terrain to buy you that time, you need to be moving, ducking behind things like everyone else does. The most annoying thing I can see a shield stacker do is bolt, dodge roll and then totally change their positioning to behind terrain with their 2nd bolt.


That part was pointless. I never once said that healing ward was my only way of healing. (In fact I only recently started to use it on my bar) I don't understand why anyone would just bolt escape and stand in front of an enemy (I don't have bolt escape on my bar either).

Bolting in a straight line away from a shield breaker user (particularly a night blade who can pursue you) will yield you getting shield broken.

I use detection potions and attack them front on, running doesn't work all the time as there isnt always terrain to hide behind.

I can tell you (and everyone else whining in the thread) that I abuse the living hell out of shield breaker every chance I get. I pew pew you with light attacks from a bow and I dark cloak while I'm doing it. The sorcs that aren't a kill waiting to happen are either extremely offensive (light attack spam shield breaker still takes time to kill) or use terrain to make it hard to keep them in the light attack fire. The sorcs that are a kill waiting to happen try to only use repositioning with bolt/streak to buy time or try to evade by bolting away in a strait line.

Not whining, was asking for helpful advice. Which other people have given.

The other point is using healing ward when you are really low on health is also a free kill. To anyone acclimated to using the shield breaker set there isn't a bigger glowing "target me" sign than someone with low health and a red bubble.
Oh, but having my other required ward isn't? Anyone with that set that sees any kind of shield over a health bar/person is going to spam. (and that's fine, as its the point of the damn set)

I don't have any problem with shield breaker being in the game, I was simply looking for ways to counter it that were more intelligent that "get more health".

I have since swapped my bar around a bit, and am having better success. I put defensive rune on too. (damn it was great to see a night blade just kneeling there after hitting me from stealth)

FriedEggSandwich

I would thank this set if I could, although perhaps I'd be better off thanking certain posters in this thread, and the other 2 similar threads, for challenging my preconceptions. I would never have considered wearing heavy armour had it not been for the challenge this set poses. I'm now wearing 5 light/2 heavy and I could not be happier. With nirnhoned staff and boundless storm my spell res is 22k and my physical res is 18k, but I still have 34k magicka, 3k spell damage (buffed) and 1.6k magicka regen, and I'm still wearing 4x v14 martial knowledge. I have sacrificed about 200 regen and some spell pen by losing 2 light, but I'm pretty sure I can make that back with full v16 gear and/or cp.

The difference it has made is incredible; I feel so tanky! I now have the confidence to go into most fights without a ward, and only use it when I need to stop my hp depleting, usually only below 50%. It has slowed most fights down so I have more time to think and respond, and it's actually caused a couple of players to run away, I assumed they were spooked by how little damage they did to me (I still wear a light armour costume). It's also really amusing to hear rapid-fire light attacks hitting me from players thinking my boundless storm is a ward, but not seeing my hp bar move at all.

On top of the reduced damage I also now get 100 magicka and stamina back when hit (4 sec cooldown), more hp and 2% more healing received thanks to passives. I am so impressed with heavy armour right now.

It's still possible for a player who knows what they're doing to easily kill me with shield breaker though. There are certain players who need to cheese this set with max damage 2h and bow. I struggle to deal with these players cos they will smack me about chaining WB causing me to ward, and then switch to bow and pew pew. Escape or los is the only counter to this, and if I'm out in the open that's not possible. I don't have access to any heal that will heal through that amount of damage, even with my new resistances. Isn't the definition of OP "no counter"? I guess the counter is to not find yourself alone in the open. Shame.

I still maintain that 2.1k damage from the shieldbreaker set is ott. I've said this before but my velocious curse (2nd hardest hitting spell I have) hits for 4k non-crit. Frags (hardest hitting spell) hits for 5k non-crit. And there are people saying 2.1k spam is nothing, just heal through it. Sure, heal through more dps than I can do with curse and frags combined (timings accounted for). I love that there is now a hard-counter to wards, just does it have to be quite so hard?

ToRelax

NordJitsu wrote: »

My solution:

Shield Breaker would just break shields. Any damage from someone wearing the set would instantly dispell the shield.

It would still be a very powerful set, but you wouldn't be actively PUNISHED for using a mitigation skill. Instead, it would just be countered. Also, you could never actually harm someone by trying to help them (Healing Ward.)

Hacing a percentage of the skill taken away would make more sense. Also forces people trying to kill a shield user to actually invest into damage as much as needed to kill anyone else, since you'd still need to actually break the shield with your damage. Obviously, the set should proc before your actual attack's damage is applied.
Simply negating the shield with any attack doesn't allow for counterplay, wich should be there, and would make the set even worse for 1vX scenarios since your shields are just instantly dispelled. Still, the general Idea of attacking the shield and not ignoring other defenses is certainly better than the current implementation.

Hydrocodone

Why not just remove all the other classes from the game then the NBs could troll each other. Rename the game Elder Stealth Online.

Hiero_Glyph

NordJitsu wrote: »

My solution:

Shield Breaker would just break shields. Any damage from someone wearing the set would instantly dispell the shield.

It would still be a very powerful set, but you wouldn't be actively PUNISHED for using a mitigation skill. Instead, it would just be countered. Also, you could never actually harm someone by trying to help them (Healing Ward.)

I think this is the correct type of counter although an instant dispel would be a bit too strong. Personally, I think having it increase the damage done to shields, and only shields, would be the correct application of a shield breaker bonus. The problem is still the overflow damage bug where any damage above the shield's strength is unmitigates by armor or resistance.

Anyway, shield stacking is still the problem and this set does nothing to fix that other than breaking another mechanic. I think preventing players from refreshing shields until they expire or are depleted would go a long way in countering shield stacking.

FriedEggSandwich

Hiero_Glyph wrote: »

NordJitsu wrote: »

My solution:

Shield Breaker would just break shields. Any damage from someone wearing the set would instantly dispell the shield.

It would still be a very powerful set, but you wouldn't be actively PUNISHED for using a mitigation skill. Instead, it would just be countered. Also, you could never actually harm someone by trying to help them (Healing Ward.)

I think this is the correct type of counter although an instant dispel would be a bit too strong. Personally, I think having it increase the damage done to shields, and only shields, would be the correct application of a shield breaker bonus. The problem is still the overflow damage bug where any damage above the shield's strength is unmitigates by armor or resistance.

Anyway, shield stacking is still the problem and this set does nothing to fix that other than breaking another mechanic. I think preventing players from refreshing shields until they expire or are depleted would go a long way in countering shield stacking.

I was informed recently by someone on this forum that damage overflow is now mitigated since 2.1. I would be OK with an instant dispel, I think this would be necessary due to the spammable nature of shields. There are already skills that will remove my ward in 2 hits.

Alexandrious

[/quote]


This whole patch is a knee jerk reaction.

[/quote]

This is my most favorite quote. I want it as my sig.

tennotsukai87

Wow, people are starting to have shield breaker sets on the ps4 now. This is way too op lol. Just can't believe people on here think this is a good idea. Really...you're making every sorc to have an additional healing spell on one of their bars. Magicka NBs can get away with SC, templar can just heal, and I don't care about DK (they tanks). If this was to justify shield stacking, then you guys went a direction that's very harsh for certain players that main sorc. Not to mention, Healing Ward may not even apply to yourself. Our only resort is to cast a healing spell that cures for only 2k or an HoT for 2.7k. Ugh...

Lucky28

NordJitsu wrote: »

My solution:

Shield Breaker would just break shields. Any damage from someone wearing the set would instantly dispell the shield.

It would still be a very powerful set, but you wouldn't be actively PUNISHED for using a mitigation skill. Instead, it would just be countered. Also, you could never actually harm someone by trying to help them (Healing Ward.)

a better solution would be to make it only apply to melee weapons (dual wield and great sword) and not bows.

tennotsukai87

Lucky28 wrote: »

NordJitsu wrote: »

My solution:

Shield Breaker would just break shields. Any damage from someone wearing the set would instantly dispell the shield.

It would still be a very powerful set, but you wouldn't be actively PUNISHED for using a mitigation skill. Instead, it would just be countered. Also, you could never actually harm someone by trying to help them (Healing Ward.)

a better solution would be to make it only apply to melee weapons (dual wield and great sword) and not bows.

Not a bad idea!

Wolfahm

If you as a stacking sorc die to only shield breaker in a 1v1 you need to l2p... A single HOT can almost negate it. I have tried shield breaker set myself and any sorc with a brain stem can counter it... The only time it can kill someone with nothing but breaker spam is vs a sorc whose only reaction to being damaged is to put on another shield.. I have witnessed a sorc try and reapply a shield 8 yes 8! times well standing still and not fighting back these are the only kinds of people shield breaker works on and imo the only people on here crying for a shield breaker nerf.

FriedEggSandwich

Wolfahm wrote: »

If you as a stacking sorc die to only shield breaker in a 1v1 you need to l2p... A single HOT can almost negate it. I have tried shield breaker set myself and any sorc with a brain stem can counter it... The only time it can kill someone with nothing but breaker spam is vs a sorc whose only reaction to being damaged is to put on another shield.. I have witnessed a sorc try and reapply a shield 8 yes 8! times well standing still and not fighting back these are the only kinds of people shield breaker works on and imo the only people on here crying for a shield breaker nerf.

What about a non-stacking sorc? You appear to be another person happy to believe this set only counters shield-stacking. I only carry a 9k hardened ward now, preferring to tank up a bit with heavy armour. I still need to use my shield from time to time though, and this set still punishes me for that. I'm happy for this set to exist but I still maintain that 2.1k damage per light attack is too much damage. It's disproportionate considering the recent damage nerf in pvp. It's disproportionate considering my velocious curse only hits for 4k (or less) every 4.5 seconds, whereas this set can do 2.1k damage more than once per second. See my point?

Zlater

Ok here's another Idea that maybe you might like.

Make defensive posture also reflect arrows. Tanks would love this and now you have a solution to shield breaker bow abuse.

What do you think?

Wolfahm

FriedEggSandwich:
"I still maintain that 2.1k damage per light attack is too much damage. It's disproportionate considering the recent damage nerf in pvp. It's disproportionate considering my velocious curse only hits for 4k (or less) every 4.5 seconds, whereas this set can do 2.1k damage more than once per second. See my point? "




O i see your point....

Lucky28

Wolfahm wrote: »

If you as a stacking sorc die to only shield breaker in a 1v1 you need to l2p... A single HOT can almost negate it. I have tried shield breaker set myself and any sorc with a brain stem can counter it... The only time it can kill someone with nothing but breaker spam is vs a sorc whose only reaction to being damaged is to put on another shield.. I have witnessed a sorc try and reapply a shield 8 yes 8! times well standing still and not fighting back these are the only kinds of people shield breaker works on and imo the only people on here crying for a shield breaker nerf.

Well, you'd be wrong. Never been killed by Shield breaker. doesn't change the fact that it shouldn't exist, it's something one would expect a hacker to use not something you'd expect a developer to legitimately put in their own game. they just literally sit their with a bow and click click click click. what kind of mindless gameplay is that?.

As for me. whenever i get hit with shieldbreaker and don't see who did it, i just quickly kill everyone with a bow

Wolfahm

About as mindless as shield stacking... your point is moronic

FriedEggSandwich

Wolfahm wrote: »

FriedEggSandwich:
"I still maintain that 2.1k damage per light attack is too much damage. It's disproportionate considering the recent damage nerf in pvp. It's disproportionate considering my velocious curse only hits for 4k (or less) every 4.5 seconds, whereas this set can do 2.1k damage more than once per second. See my point? "




O i see your point....

I'm sorry but that screen shot is irrelevant to my point given that those are ultimate light attacks; the guy was spending his ultimate to do that damage to you. I also believe overload to be op and never use it against players, ever. Come back at me with something more convincing.

Lucky28

Wolfahm wrote: »

About as mindless as shield stacking... your point is moronic

No because you have to balance your Shields, Damage output and resources simultaneously.

and it used to be you had to actually put thought into how to deal with someone who was shield stacking. the set takes alot out of PvP the users are stupidly predictable, and about as fun to fight as a benekin. and that is my problem with the set.

Wolfahm

Lucky28 wrote: »

Wolfahm wrote: »

About as mindless as shield stacking... your point is moronic

No because you have to balance your Shields, Damage output and resources simultaneously.

countering someone spamming bow light attacks is not hard. as i said in my 1st post dying to this is a L2P problem and a wake up call for the legion of sorcs out there that were under the impression that they were skilled. I fight many sorcs every night 1v1 that will blow me into Oblivion if i do something that stupid and easy to counter...

Lucky28

Wolfahm wrote: »

Lucky28 wrote: »

Wolfahm wrote: »

About as mindless as shield stacking... your point is moronic

No because you have to balance your Shields, Damage output and resources simultaneously.

countering someone spamming bow light attacks is not hard. as i said in my 1st post dying to this is a L2P problem and a wake up call for the legion of sorcs out there that were under the impression that they were skilled. I fight many sorcs every night 1v1 that will blow me into Oblivion if i do something that stupid and easy to counter...

1v1 and yes. the main annoyance is when they hide behind a zerg and in order to get to them and counter them you have to get past the zerg who will kill you if you drop your shields (tho don't take that comment as me saying i 1vzerg because i don't) and that is weak.

which is why i said the set should only apply to melee weapons and not bows. that would make the set more interactive on all fronts.