Shield Breaker - AKA "I win button"

Levo18

The set is not broken and is long needed. Every class has a counter for their core mechanic except sorcs. Well now they have and are equal to all other classes. And thats why you sorcs are whining... Because you are not invincible anymore

Derra

Levo18 wrote: »

The set is not broken and is long needed. Every class has a counter for their core mechanic except sorcs. Well now they have and are equal to all other classes. And thats why you sorcs are whining... Because you are not invincible anymore

Would you mind sharing what the counter to breath of life of a templar is, because when you come telling me healdebuffs i´ll have to break something.

Alcast

Sorcs finally cant tank 20+ ppl in light armor anymore and all of the sudden they come to the forum and QQ...more tears...it feeds my heart with joy.

80% of Cyrodiil players turned into sorcs...and that def not because they were weak..

Tankqull

The_Outsider wrote: »

Stikato wrote: »

Xeven wrote: »

I have been watching this thread and have remained quiet for the most part. No reasonable Sorc is going to sit here and tell you that damage shields do not need a balance pass. They do. We know that and you know that.

There must not be that many reasonable sorcs then. I don't know how many of you said "L2P" and "attack the stamina pool" and other complete nonsense. None of you took the time to detail the multitude of skills that shields themselves break.

Shields break bleeds
Shields break crits
Shields break dots
Shields break ultimate gain (or did)
Shields broke many 5-piece set bonuses

Now, there is a 5 piece set that hurts shield users. And you are expecting sympathy or change?

I pvp'd in Memorial for a couple hours the other night with v15 gold shieldbreaker

I did 10M total damage
150k was shieldbreaker

(I will do some more runs and post more data if you want)

Say some of that was against mobs. Hell, say half of it. So, in the exaggerated example, that's 5 million vs players, with 150k being shieldbreaker. What's that, 3% bonus damage overall?

I'm sure in a couple situations, it led to a win. But you act there is an overall threat to the game with this set. And I don't see it.
Should this have been handled differently? Of course. But this is the solution. You can argue for perfection if you want but you will never get it. Many sorcs are still out there, kicking ass with magicka.

Are they as powerful as before? No. Because they were OP before, as you yourself point out. This is what a nerf feels like. It never should have come to this, but it is what is.

FWIW: my idea was to make shields function almost exactly like health.

Give them mitigation of the user. Make them able to be crit. Allow bleeds etc. So pluses and minuses. THEN you can adjust them properly to be reasonable. The sheer fact that they were implemented in such a weird, undocumented way, is what has led to all this confusion and BS.

The above is some of what I was looking for. Some actual numbers and maybe some data means so much more than... Well much of this thread imo.

Good stuff @Stikato

And yes, moar data plz.

his stats proof actually one thing - magica builds are nearly none existant and dying - as all of them rely on shields(NB/Sorcs immensly and DK/temp to a lesser extend thx to instant burstheals both have access too)...

Alcast

Tankqull wrote: »

The_Outsider wrote: »

Stikato wrote: »

Xeven wrote: »

I have been watching this thread and have remained quiet for the most part. No reasonable Sorc is going to sit here and tell you that damage shields do not need a balance pass. They do. We know that and you know that.

There must not be that many reasonable sorcs then. I don't know how many of you said "L2P" and "attack the stamina pool" and other complete nonsense. None of you took the time to detail the multitude of skills that shields themselves break.

Shields break bleeds
Shields break crits
Shields break dots
Shields break ultimate gain (or did)
Shields broke many 5-piece set bonuses

Now, there is a 5 piece set that hurts shield users. And you are expecting sympathy or change?

I pvp'd in Memorial for a couple hours the other night with v15 gold shieldbreaker

I did 10M total damage
150k was shieldbreaker

(I will do some more runs and post more data if you want)

Say some of that was against mobs. Hell, say half of it. So, in the exaggerated example, that's 5 million vs players, with 150k being shieldbreaker. What's that, 3% bonus damage overall?

I'm sure in a couple situations, it led to a win. But you act there is an overall threat to the game with this set. And I don't see it.
Should this have been handled differently? Of course. But this is the solution. You can argue for perfection if you want but you will never get it. Many sorcs are still out there, kicking ass with magicka.

Are they as powerful as before? No. Because they were OP before, as you yourself point out. This is what a nerf feels like. It never should have come to this, but it is what is.

FWIW: my idea was to make shields function almost exactly like health.

Give them mitigation of the user. Make them able to be crit. Allow bleeds etc. So pluses and minuses. THEN you can adjust them properly to be reasonable. The sheer fact that they were implemented in such a weird, undocumented way, is what has led to all this confusion and BS.

The above is some of what I was looking for. Some actual numbers and maybe some data means so much more than... Well much of this thread imo.

Good stuff @Stikato

And yes, moar data plz.

his stats proof actually one thing - magica builds are nearly none existant and dying - as all of them rely on shields(NB/Sorcs immensly and DK/temp to a lesser extend thx to instant burstheals both have access too)...

That is why about 80% of PvP players are magicka based >.>

Soulac

Derra wrote: »

Levo18 wrote: »

The set is not broken and is long needed. Every class has a counter for their core mechanic except sorcs. Well now they have and are equal to all other classes. And thats why you sorcs are whining... Because you are not invincible anymore

Would you mind sharing what the counter to breath of life of a templar is, because when you come telling me healdebuffs i´ll have to break something.

To be honest heal debuffs work pretty well against breath of life.
If I run Dw, which has more potential dmg output than S&B, I can barely get these Templars down, but on S&B I don't have any problems.
I'd wish for more counters, especially for more interruptable skills tho.

Yesterday I fought a bunch of battle leveled Templars and all they did was spamming cleanse / BoL. There is nothing you could do in a situation like that. They don't run oom anyway.
Heal debuff is a good counter, but only if you got reasonable dmg output and not an enemy knowing how to get rid of the debuff.

ToRelax

The_Outsider wrote: »

Question: How much of this is hype? --People reacting to a few dramatic screenshots that give no context to the actual situation.
How many people are actually running this set? And how useful is it actually?-- A weighted bow user vs. your typical shield spammer, of course the result is obvious. But does this situation actually exist outside of a few screenshots?

BUT, how long does it take to 100%-0 a Sorc if ALL you are doing is light attacking? Isn't there ample time to counter attack(i.e. frag-to-face)? Especially if the spammer is doing nothing but light attacks?

I'm legitimately curious. Cause even after all the hype about how OP shieldbreaker is, I couldn't bring myself to buy the set last night! I'd be giving up a flat 250- ish weapon damage from my Hunding's Rage 5 piece! I need mah weapon damage!

Anyone else not sure they want to use it?

Look, going offensive against this set will only be successfull (and is) against complete noobs. Your health is damaged, your shields fail to protect you, your healing (since you go on the offense) is not enough to outheal the damage (unless you use Surge and get som lucky crits, wich doesn't work well with sustained damage = Force Shock... different topic )..
Your opponent, however, spend literally no resources so far, he can still use all of his defensive mechanisms, can attack you just as well as you him, and even weave his light attacks in wich case he kills you with or without shields, whatever you do, unless you escape.

So no, the effectiveness of this set is not at all exaggerated. Please, try it out, getting some v15 parts doesn't cost a lot of stones, see for yourself. :P

rfennell_ESO wrote: »

The_Outsider wrote: »

Question: How much of this is hype? --People reacting to a few dramatic screenshots that give no context to the actual situation.
How many people are actually running this set? And how useful is it actually?-- A weighted bow user vs. your typical shield spammer, of course the result is obvious. But does this situation actually exist outside of a few screenshots?

BUT, how long does it take to 100%-0 a Sorc if ALL you are doing is light attacking? Isn't there ample time to counter attack(i.e. frag-to-face)? Especially if the spammer is doing nothing but light attacks?

I'm legitimately curious. Cause even after all the hype about how OP shieldbreaker is, I couldn't bring myself to buy the set last night! I'd be giving up a flat 250- ish weapon damage from my Hunding's Rage 5 piece! I need mah weapon damage!

Anyone else not sure they want to use it?

It's mostly hype and sorcs raging about no longer being totally invulnerable in fights.

If you are using shield breaker to 100% to 0% a shielded sorc, it takes longer than them putting a healing ward and it healing them to full takes. The entire premise that people are using shieldbreaker to mindless kill sorcs is just rubbish and is an intentional obfuscation of reality.

They are pissed because they let themselves get low and got shield breaked to death. That's really what the set is for and how it is realistically used.

The only realistic time you can hammer down a sorc with it is if you got them low health in the first place. The Fotm sorcs that's jumped on the bandwagon last big patch and really don't know how to play the class past shield stacking and casting crystal shards while standing in a field of daedric mines are the ones raging.

Worst part is they are engaging in misinformation to get the set adjusted and telling lie after lie.

Except Healing Ward does not heal the Sorc to full health. In fact, shieldbreaker can outdps that skill easily, wether you spam it or wait for the heal.
Talking about engaging in misinformation...

Levo18 wrote: »

The set is not broken and is long needed. Every class has a counter for their core mechanic except sorcs. Well now they have and are equal to all other classes. And thats why you sorcs are whining... Because you are not invincible anymore

We are not invincible anymore where we should be, correct. I could swear, I already said that on the last page. If you want to balance a skill that is supposed to make you invincible but can be broken by about everything, then you obviously should adjust how easily it is broken...

Soulac wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Levo18 wrote: »

The set is not broken and is long needed. Every class has a counter for their core mechanic except sorcs. Well now they have and are equal to all other classes. And thats why you sorcs are whining... Because you are not invincible anymore

Would you mind sharing what the counter to breath of life of a templar is, because when you come telling me healdebuffs i´ll have to break something.

To be honest heal debuffs work pretty well against breath of life.
If I run Dw, which has more potential dmg output than S&B, I can barely get these Templars down, but on S&B I don't have any problems.
I'd wish for more counters, especially for more interruptable skills tho.

Yesterday I fought a bunch of battle leveled Templars and all they did was spamming cleanse / BoL. There is nothing you could do in a situation like that. They don't run oom anyway.
Heal debuff is a good counter, but only if you got reasonable dmg output and not an enemy knowing how to get rid of the debuff.

Yeah, heal debuffs work against everyone who doesn't know how to cleanse them or for whatever reason didn't slot that.
This set works for players who know how to use it, without much the defender could do then, really.

rfennell_ESO wrote: »

Xeven wrote: »

Youre right about 3 as of the date of this post. Give it a couple more weeks.

EDIT
Post above is butthurt and completely false about healing ward. There exists no skill on resto staff that can out hps this set. The only option is to run as soon as they recieve cc immunity from your initial burst.

yah combat prayer that heals for significantly more than shield breaker and is an instant cast couldn't possibly do it.

I see combat prayer crit for 7k regularly, it's far more hps than shield breaker is dps.

I'd bet mutagen could out hps shield breakers dps too.

I'd also wager that healing springs vastly does more hps than shield breaker dps.

I'd guess that if destruction staff x2 is your choice of builds, shield breaker is crazy OP though.

Combat Prayer? Doubtful, as that is not even the increased healing morph and very much sounds like numbers I would expect outside Cyrodiil. In Cyrodiil, my Blessing of Restoration crits for 4.8k, normal heals on 3k. And no, that is not able to outdps the set against a bow spamming light attacks. It costs resources, other than the light attack spam, and your shields go down without you being able to refresh them or you'll lose even more hp.
The only resto skill able to outheal this set is Grand Healing, wich requires to stay in the area and if the attacker knows what he is doing, he'll use other skills and still kill you with the added pressure from weaving.

Soulac

ToRelax wrote: »

The_Outsider wrote: »

Question: How much of this is hype? --People reacting to a few dramatic screenshots that give no context to the actual situation.
How many people are actually running this set? And how useful is it actually?-- A weighted bow user vs. your typical shield spammer, of course the result is obvious. But does this situation actually exist outside of a few screenshots?

BUT, how long does it take to 100%-0 a Sorc if ALL you are doing is light attacking? Isn't there ample time to counter attack(i.e. frag-to-face)? Especially if the spammer is doing nothing but light attacks?

I'm legitimately curious. Cause even after all the hype about how OP shieldbreaker is, I couldn't bring myself to buy the set last night! I'd be giving up a flat 250- ish weapon damage from my Hunding's Rage 5 piece! I need mah weapon damage!

Anyone else not sure they want to use it?

Look, going offensive against this set will only be successfull (and is) against complete noobs. Your health is damaged, your shields fail to protect you, your healing (since you go on the offense) is not enough to outheal the damage (unless you use Surge and get som lucky crits, wich doesn't work well with sustained damage = Force Shock... different topic )..
Your opponent, however, spend literally no resources so far, he can still use all of his defensive mechanisms, can attack you just as well as you him, and even weave his light attacks in wich case he kills you with or without shields, whatever you do, unless you escape.

So no, the effectiveness of this set is not at all exaggerated. Please, try it out, getting some v15 parts doesn't cost a lot of stones, see for yourself. :P

rfennell_ESO wrote: »

The_Outsider wrote: »

Question: How much of this is hype? --People reacting to a few dramatic screenshots that give no context to the actual situation.
How many people are actually running this set? And how useful is it actually?-- A weighted bow user vs. your typical shield spammer, of course the result is obvious. But does this situation actually exist outside of a few screenshots?

BUT, how long does it take to 100%-0 a Sorc if ALL you are doing is light attacking? Isn't there ample time to counter attack(i.e. frag-to-face)? Especially if the spammer is doing nothing but light attacks?

I'm legitimately curious. Cause even after all the hype about how OP shieldbreaker is, I couldn't bring myself to buy the set last night! I'd be giving up a flat 250- ish weapon damage from my Hunding's Rage 5 piece! I need mah weapon damage!

Anyone else not sure they want to use it?

It's mostly hype and sorcs raging about no longer being totally invulnerable in fights.

If you are using shield breaker to 100% to 0% a shielded sorc, it takes longer than them putting a healing ward and it healing them to full takes. The entire premise that people are using shieldbreaker to mindless kill sorcs is just rubbish and is an intentional obfuscation of reality.

They are pissed because they let themselves get low and got shield breaked to death. That's really what the set is for and how it is realistically used.

The only realistic time you can hammer down a sorc with it is if you got them low health in the first place. The Fotm sorcs that's jumped on the bandwagon last big patch and really don't know how to play the class past shield stacking and casting crystal shards while standing in a field of daedric mines are the ones raging.

Worst part is they are engaging in misinformation to get the set adjusted and telling lie after lie.

Except Healing Ward does not heal the Sorc to full health. In fact, shieldbreaker can outdps that skill easily, wether you spam it or wait for the heal.
Talking about engaging in misinformation...

Levo18 wrote: »

The set is not broken and is long needed. Every class has a counter for their core mechanic except sorcs. Well now they have and are equal to all other classes. And thats why you sorcs are whining... Because you are not invincible anymore

We are not invincible anymore where we should be, correct. I could swear, I already said that on the last page. If you want to balance a skill that is supposed to make you invincible but can be broken by about everything, then you obviously should adjust how easily it is broken...

Soulac wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Levo18 wrote: »

The set is not broken and is long needed. Every class has a counter for their core mechanic except sorcs. Well now they have and are equal to all other classes. And thats why you sorcs are whining... Because you are not invincible anymore

Would you mind sharing what the counter to breath of life of a templar is, because when you come telling me healdebuffs i´ll have to break something.

To be honest heal debuffs work pretty well against breath of life.
If I run Dw, which has more potential dmg output than S&B, I can barely get these Templars down, but on S&B I don't have any problems.
I'd wish for more counters, especially for more interruptable skills tho.

Yesterday I fought a bunch of battle leveled Templars and all they did was spamming cleanse / BoL. There is nothing you could do in a situation like that. They don't run oom anyway.
Heal debuff is a good counter, but only if you got reasonable dmg output and not an enemy knowing how to get rid of the debuff.

Yeah, heal debuffs work against everyone who doesn't know how to cleanse them or for whatever reason didn't slot that.
This set works for players who know how to use it, without much the defender could do then, really.

rfennell_ESO wrote: »

Xeven wrote: »

Youre right about 3 as of the date of this post. Give it a couple more weeks.

EDIT
Post above is butthurt and completely false about healing ward. There exists no skill on resto staff that can out hps this set. The only option is to run as soon as they recieve cc immunity from your initial burst.

yah combat prayer that heals for significantly more than shield breaker and is an instant cast couldn't possibly do it.

I see combat prayer crit for 7k regularly, it's far more hps than shield breaker is dps.

I'd bet mutagen could out hps shield breakers dps too.

I'd also wager that healing springs vastly does more hps than shield breaker dps.

I'd guess that if destruction staff x2 is your choice of builds, shield breaker is crazy OP though.

Combat Prayer? Doubtful, as that is not even the increased healing morph and very much sounds like numbers I would expect outside Cyrodiil. In Cyrodiil, my Blessing of Restoration crits for 4.8k, normal heals on 3k. And no, that is not able to outdps the set against a bow spamming light attacks. It costs resources, other than the light attack spam, and your shields go down without you being able to refresh them or you'll lose even more hp.
The only resto skill able to outheal this set is Grand Healing, wich requires to stay in the area and if the attacker knows what he is doing, he'll use other skills and still kill you with the added pressure from weaving.

Good luck spamming cleanse while my bash costs nothing.

ToRelax

Soulac wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

The_Outsider wrote: »

Question: How much of this is hype? --People reacting to a few dramatic screenshots that give no context to the actual situation.
How many people are actually running this set? And how useful is it actually?-- A weighted bow user vs. your typical shield spammer, of course the result is obvious. But does this situation actually exist outside of a few screenshots?

BUT, how long does it take to 100%-0 a Sorc if ALL you are doing is light attacking? Isn't there ample time to counter attack(i.e. frag-to-face)? Especially if the spammer is doing nothing but light attacks?

I'm legitimately curious. Cause even after all the hype about how OP shieldbreaker is, I couldn't bring myself to buy the set last night! I'd be giving up a flat 250- ish weapon damage from my Hunding's Rage 5 piece! I need mah weapon damage!

Anyone else not sure they want to use it?

Look, going offensive against this set will only be successfull (and is) against complete noobs. Your health is damaged, your shields fail to protect you, your healing (since you go on the offense) is not enough to outheal the damage (unless you use Surge and get som lucky crits, wich doesn't work well with sustained damage = Force Shock... different topic )..
Your opponent, however, spend literally no resources so far, he can still use all of his defensive mechanisms, can attack you just as well as you him, and even weave his light attacks in wich case he kills you with or without shields, whatever you do, unless you escape.

So no, the effectiveness of this set is not at all exaggerated. Please, try it out, getting some v15 parts doesn't cost a lot of stones, see for yourself. :P

rfennell_ESO wrote: »

The_Outsider wrote: »

Question: How much of this is hype? --People reacting to a few dramatic screenshots that give no context to the actual situation.
How many people are actually running this set? And how useful is it actually?-- A weighted bow user vs. your typical shield spammer, of course the result is obvious. But does this situation actually exist outside of a few screenshots?

BUT, how long does it take to 100%-0 a Sorc if ALL you are doing is light attacking? Isn't there ample time to counter attack(i.e. frag-to-face)? Especially if the spammer is doing nothing but light attacks?

I'm legitimately curious. Cause even after all the hype about how OP shieldbreaker is, I couldn't bring myself to buy the set last night! I'd be giving up a flat 250- ish weapon damage from my Hunding's Rage 5 piece! I need mah weapon damage!

Anyone else not sure they want to use it?

It's mostly hype and sorcs raging about no longer being totally invulnerable in fights.

If you are using shield breaker to 100% to 0% a shielded sorc, it takes longer than them putting a healing ward and it healing them to full takes. The entire premise that people are using shieldbreaker to mindless kill sorcs is just rubbish and is an intentional obfuscation of reality.

They are pissed because they let themselves get low and got shield breaked to death. That's really what the set is for and how it is realistically used.

The only realistic time you can hammer down a sorc with it is if you got them low health in the first place. The Fotm sorcs that's jumped on the bandwagon last big patch and really don't know how to play the class past shield stacking and casting crystal shards while standing in a field of daedric mines are the ones raging.

Worst part is they are engaging in misinformation to get the set adjusted and telling lie after lie.

Except Healing Ward does not heal the Sorc to full health. In fact, shieldbreaker can outdps that skill easily, wether you spam it or wait for the heal.
Talking about engaging in misinformation...

Levo18 wrote: »

The set is not broken and is long needed. Every class has a counter for their core mechanic except sorcs. Well now they have and are equal to all other classes. And thats why you sorcs are whining... Because you are not invincible anymore

We are not invincible anymore where we should be, correct. I could swear, I already said that on the last page. If you want to balance a skill that is supposed to make you invincible but can be broken by about everything, then you obviously should adjust how easily it is broken...

Soulac wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Levo18 wrote: »

The set is not broken and is long needed. Every class has a counter for their core mechanic except sorcs. Well now they have and are equal to all other classes. And thats why you sorcs are whining... Because you are not invincible anymore

Would you mind sharing what the counter to breath of life of a templar is, because when you come telling me healdebuffs i´ll have to break something.

To be honest heal debuffs work pretty well against breath of life.
If I run Dw, which has more potential dmg output than S&B, I can barely get these Templars down, but on S&B I don't have any problems.
I'd wish for more counters, especially for more interruptable skills tho.

Yesterday I fought a bunch of battle leveled Templars and all they did was spamming cleanse / BoL. There is nothing you could do in a situation like that. They don't run oom anyway.
Heal debuff is a good counter, but only if you got reasonable dmg output and not an enemy knowing how to get rid of the debuff.

Yeah, heal debuffs work against everyone who doesn't know how to cleanse them or for whatever reason didn't slot that.
This set works for players who know how to use it, without much the defender could do then, really.

rfennell_ESO wrote: »

Xeven wrote: »

Youre right about 3 as of the date of this post. Give it a couple more weeks.

EDIT
Post above is butthurt and completely false about healing ward. There exists no skill on resto staff that can out hps this set. The only option is to run as soon as they recieve cc immunity from your initial burst.

yah combat prayer that heals for significantly more than shield breaker and is an instant cast couldn't possibly do it.

I see combat prayer crit for 7k regularly, it's far more hps than shield breaker is dps.

I'd bet mutagen could out hps shield breakers dps too.

I'd also wager that healing springs vastly does more hps than shield breaker dps.

I'd guess that if destruction staff x2 is your choice of builds, shield breaker is crazy OP though.

Combat Prayer? Doubtful, as that is not even the increased healing morph and very much sounds like numbers I would expect outside Cyrodiil. In Cyrodiil, my Blessing of Restoration crits for 4.8k, normal heals on 3k. And no, that is not able to outdps the set against a bow spamming light attacks. It costs resources, other than the light attack spam, and your shields go down without you being able to refresh them or you'll lose even more hp.
The only resto skill able to outheal this set is Grand Healing, wich requires to stay in the area and if the attacker knows what he is doing, he'll use other skills and still kill you with the added pressure from weaving.

Good luck spamming cleanse while my bash costs nothing.

I meant that as the action to be taken, not the actual skill. Purifying Ritual is an about medium cost skill, and I never heard of people who bash with bows from range.

CP5

Sharee wrote: »

BalticBlues wrote: »

Stikato wrote: »

you are expecting sympathy or change?

You write a lot but you seem to understand little.
What people expect from a game about skills is reliablility.

The SB set essentially bends the rules of this game.

You mean like my roll dodge is reliable against radiant destruction? Like my cloak is reliable against radiant magelight? Like DK wings are reliable against 4+ projectiles? Like templar heals ar reliable against a healing debuff? Like blocking is reliable against fear?

There isn't a defensive ability that would be foolproof and 100% reliable like shields used to be. Shieldbreaker does not bend the rules of the game, shields do. Shieldbreaker simply removes the anomaly.

First off nice comparisons. DK scales were overpowered when all the dk had to do was cast one skill every 4s and render a large range of skills, from light attack to ultimates, not only useless damage wise, but also dealing 100-135% those skills damage as well. Healing has debuffs? Stendarr preserve us that can't be, if only templars could counterplay by purging the debuff? And radiant magelight, a toggle that requires a slot on each bar, and has a rather small aoe, does what its morph is intended to do?

Shields gain no armor resistances, the number you see is the number you need to beat. Shields were preemptive heals, frontloading a short term 'heal' that was less valuable than health (because no amount of armor could support it) that would then later fade. Damage is how you counter shields, if ZOS implemented a debuff that reduced the power of shields (similar to healing debuffs) or made a type of damage deal more damage to shields then we would have balance (play vs counter play) but this set breaks that. All I hope for now is a cloak breaker set, because who needs to slot skills, use potions, or try different strategies when I can win by virtue of dressing for success?

Tankqull

Alcast wrote: »

Tankqull wrote: »

The_Outsider wrote: »

Stikato wrote: »

Xeven wrote: »

I have been watching this thread and have remained quiet for the most part. No reasonable Sorc is going to sit here and tell you that damage shields do not need a balance pass. They do. We know that and you know that.

There must not be that many reasonable sorcs then. I don't know how many of you said "L2P" and "attack the stamina pool" and other complete nonsense. None of you took the time to detail the multitude of skills that shields themselves break.

Shields break bleeds
Shields break crits
Shields break dots
Shields break ultimate gain (or did)
Shields broke many 5-piece set bonuses

Now, there is a 5 piece set that hurts shield users. And you are expecting sympathy or change?

I pvp'd in Memorial for a couple hours the other night with v15 gold shieldbreaker

I did 10M total damage
150k was shieldbreaker

(I will do some more runs and post more data if you want)

Say some of that was against mobs. Hell, say half of it. So, in the exaggerated example, that's 5 million vs players, with 150k being shieldbreaker. What's that, 3% bonus damage overall?

I'm sure in a couple situations, it led to a win. But you act there is an overall threat to the game with this set. And I don't see it.
Should this have been handled differently? Of course. But this is the solution. You can argue for perfection if you want but you will never get it. Many sorcs are still out there, kicking ass with magicka.

Are they as powerful as before? No. Because they were OP before, as you yourself point out. This is what a nerf feels like. It never should have come to this, but it is what is.

FWIW: my idea was to make shields function almost exactly like health.

Give them mitigation of the user. Make them able to be crit. Allow bleeds etc. So pluses and minuses. THEN you can adjust them properly to be reasonable. The sheer fact that they were implemented in such a weird, undocumented way, is what has led to all this confusion and BS.

The above is some of what I was looking for. Some actual numbers and maybe some data means so much more than... Well much of this thread imo.

Good stuff @Stikato

And yes, moar data plz.

his stats proof actually one thing - magica builds are nearly none existant and dying - as all of them rely on shields(NB/Sorcs immensly and DK/temp to a lesser extend thx to instant burstheals both have access too)...

That is why about 80% of PvP players are magicka based >.>

well when i´m fighting 80% magica based classes shield breaker dmg is around 25-40% of my total dmg(depending if primarily sorcs and NBs or dks/temps with instant heals)... and not around 3%...

ToRelax wrote: »

Soulac wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

The_Outsider wrote: »

Question: How much of this is hype? --People reacting to a few dramatic screenshots that give no context to the actual situation.
How many people are actually running this set? And how useful is it actually?-- A weighted bow user vs. your typical shield spammer, of course the result is obvious. But does this situation actually exist outside of a few screenshots?

BUT, how long does it take to 100%-0 a Sorc if ALL you are doing is light attacking? Isn't there ample time to counter attack(i.e. frag-to-face)? Especially if the spammer is doing nothing but light attacks?

I'm legitimately curious. Cause even after all the hype about how OP shieldbreaker is, I couldn't bring myself to buy the set last night! I'd be giving up a flat 250- ish weapon damage from my Hunding's Rage 5 piece! I need mah weapon damage!

Anyone else not sure they want to use it?

Look, going offensive against this set will only be successfull (and is) against complete noobs. Your health is damaged, your shields fail to protect you, your healing (since you go on the offense) is not enough to outheal the damage (unless you use Surge and get som lucky crits, wich doesn't work well with sustained damage = Force Shock... different topic )..
Your opponent, however, spend literally no resources so far, he can still use all of his defensive mechanisms, can attack you just as well as you him, and even weave his light attacks in wich case he kills you with or without shields, whatever you do, unless you escape.

So no, the effectiveness of this set is not at all exaggerated. Please, try it out, getting some v15 parts doesn't cost a lot of stones, see for yourself. :P

rfennell_ESO wrote: »

The_Outsider wrote: »

Question: How much of this is hype? --People reacting to a few dramatic screenshots that give no context to the actual situation.
How many people are actually running this set? And how useful is it actually?-- A weighted bow user vs. your typical shield spammer, of course the result is obvious. But does this situation actually exist outside of a few screenshots?

BUT, how long does it take to 100%-0 a Sorc if ALL you are doing is light attacking? Isn't there ample time to counter attack(i.e. frag-to-face)? Especially if the spammer is doing nothing but light attacks?

I'm legitimately curious. Cause even after all the hype about how OP shieldbreaker is, I couldn't bring myself to buy the set last night! I'd be giving up a flat 250- ish weapon damage from my Hunding's Rage 5 piece! I need mah weapon damage!

Anyone else not sure they want to use it?

It's mostly hype and sorcs raging about no longer being totally invulnerable in fights.

If you are using shield breaker to 100% to 0% a shielded sorc, it takes longer than them putting a healing ward and it healing them to full takes. The entire premise that people are using shieldbreaker to mindless kill sorcs is just rubbish and is an intentional obfuscation of reality.

They are pissed because they let themselves get low and got shield breaked to death. That's really what the set is for and how it is realistically used.

The only realistic time you can hammer down a sorc with it is if you got them low health in the first place. The Fotm sorcs that's jumped on the bandwagon last big patch and really don't know how to play the class past shield stacking and casting crystal shards while standing in a field of daedric mines are the ones raging.

Worst part is they are engaging in misinformation to get the set adjusted and telling lie after lie.

Except Healing Ward does not heal the Sorc to full health. In fact, shieldbreaker can outdps that skill easily, wether you spam it or wait for the heal.
Talking about engaging in misinformation...

Levo18 wrote: »

The set is not broken and is long needed. Every class has a counter for their core mechanic except sorcs. Well now they have and are equal to all other classes. And thats why you sorcs are whining... Because you are not invincible anymore

We are not invincible anymore where we should be, correct. I could swear, I already said that on the last page. If you want to balance a skill that is supposed to make you invincible but can be broken by about everything, then you obviously should adjust how easily it is broken...

Soulac wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Levo18 wrote: »

The set is not broken and is long needed. Every class has a counter for their core mechanic except sorcs. Well now they have and are equal to all other classes. And thats why you sorcs are whining... Because you are not invincible anymore

Would you mind sharing what the counter to breath of life of a templar is, because when you come telling me healdebuffs i´ll have to break something.

To be honest heal debuffs work pretty well against breath of life.
If I run Dw, which has more potential dmg output than S&B, I can barely get these Templars down, but on S&B I don't have any problems.
I'd wish for more counters, especially for more interruptable skills tho.

Yesterday I fought a bunch of battle leveled Templars and all they did was spamming cleanse / BoL. There is nothing you could do in a situation like that. They don't run oom anyway.
Heal debuff is a good counter, but only if you got reasonable dmg output and not an enemy knowing how to get rid of the debuff.

Yeah, heal debuffs work against everyone who doesn't know how to cleanse them or for whatever reason didn't slot that.
This set works for players who know how to use it, without much the defender could do then, really.

rfennell_ESO wrote: »

Xeven wrote: »

Youre right about 3 as of the date of this post. Give it a couple more weeks.

EDIT
Post above is butthurt and completely false about healing ward. There exists no skill on resto staff that can out hps this set. The only option is to run as soon as they recieve cc immunity from your initial burst.

yah combat prayer that heals for significantly more than shield breaker and is an instant cast couldn't possibly do it.

I see combat prayer crit for 7k regularly, it's far more hps than shield breaker is dps.

I'd bet mutagen could out hps shield breakers dps too.

I'd also wager that healing springs vastly does more hps than shield breaker dps.

I'd guess that if destruction staff x2 is your choice of builds, shield breaker is crazy OP though.

Combat Prayer? Doubtful, as that is not even the increased healing morph and very much sounds like numbers I would expect outside Cyrodiil. In Cyrodiil, my Blessing of Restoration crits for 4.8k, normal heals on 3k. And no, that is not able to outdps the set against a bow spamming light attacks. It costs resources, other than the light attack spam, and your shields go down without you being able to refresh them or you'll lose even more hp.
The only resto skill able to outheal this set is Grand Healing, wich requires to stay in the area and if the attacker knows what he is doing, he'll use other skills and still kill you with the added pressure from weaving.

Good luck spamming cleanse while my bash costs nothing.

I meant that as the action to be taken, not the actual skill. Purifying Ritual is an about medium cost skill, and I never heard of people who bash with bows from range.

as he referred to s&b he is in melee range

Sharee

CP5 wrote: »

Shields gain no armor resistances, the number you see is the number you need to beat.

Shields are immune to crit. That's damage mitigation right there.

CP5

Sharee wrote: »

CP5 wrote: »

Shields gain no armor resistances, the number you see is the number you need to beat.

Shields are immune to crit. That's damage mitigation right there.

Heals can crit, shields can never, so a shield will always have the same strength if cast multiple times.

Sharee

CP5 wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

CP5 wrote: »

Shields gain no armor resistances, the number you see is the number you need to beat.

Shields are immune to crit. That's damage mitigation right there.

Heals can crit, shields can never, so a shield will always have the same strength if cast multiple times.

Shields have an innate mitigation against incoming damage, regardless of whether heals can crit or not.

CP5

Sharee wrote: »

CP5 wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

CP5 wrote: »

Shields gain no armor resistances, the number you see is the number you need to beat.

Shields are immune to crit. That's damage mitigation right there.

Heals can crit, shields can never, so a shield will always have the same strength if cast multiple times.

Shields have an innate mitigation against incoming damage, regardless of whether heals can crit or not.

You mean the dots? Honestly since I rarely use shields I haven't seen which dots can and can't damage shields. I know bleeds don't since you need to hit the targets health to proc those but others are now as far as I know. And aside from that shields not being crit-able seems to be the largest strength. If that were changed would some people praising this set get off their pedestals and try to talk about this sets design flaws?

Joy_Division

Sharee wrote: »

BalticBlues wrote: »

Stikato wrote: »

you are expecting sympathy or change?

You write a lot but you seem to understand little.
What people expect from a game about skills is reliablility.

The SB set essentially bends the rules of this game.

You mean like my roll dodge is reliable against radiant destruction? Like my cloak is reliable against radiant magelight? Like DK wings are reliable against 4+ projectiles? Like templar heals ar reliable against a healing debuff? Like blocking is reliable against fear?

There isn't a defensive ability that would be foolproof and 100% reliable like shields used to be. Shieldbreaker does not bend the rules of the game, shields do. Shieldbreaker simply removes the anomaly.

Wow are you desperate to justify this trash set.

Cleanse/Cloak Jesus Beam, don't dodge from it.
Move away from magelight user (such as from via teleport or fear them first) then cloak.
Sorry Wings reflected four projectiles, what a waste. Just cast it again.
Templars just insta-cleanse your healing debuff (which also adds 30% to their heals in process).
Fear is stupid good but it still does zero damage.

The situations you presented have easy alternative counters that do not require an entirely different build to execute. Also the attacker in the above scenario actually require some skill, i.e. do more that stand 38 feet away and spamming light attacks. If a enemy templar manages to get off a channeled dark flare, then they deserve to inflect a healing debuff against an opponent (a minor inconvenience considering the opponent simply has to press one button to remove it as opposed to taking repeated 2k irresistible damage). To the brave projectile user that willingly fired 4 of them against a flapping wings DK, sir, I applaud your "tactics" to overcoming the DKs defenses, but I suspect you'll be on the losing end more often than not.

Kh0ll

The_Outsider wrote: »

BUT, how long does it take to 100%-0 a Sorc if ALL you are doing is light attacking? Isn't there ample time to counter attack(i.e. frag-to-face)? Especially if the spammer is doing nothing but light attacks?

I met several times the same player, archer NB, which has a macro scale X light attack spam in record time, so that in less than 0.5 seconds I went from 100% to 0% PV. It's like a FPS game...

I met him 1v1, nothing to do.
I met him at a 2 v 2 improvised in a district. He instant kill me.

Make a 4/8 secondes on this set a little less broken even if the same concept is a scandal.

I met several other players with this set without macro on light attack, escape is the only option.
not try to fight, just run away.

Kh0ll

_adhyffbjjjf12 wrote: »

If he did 10 million damage and only 150k through shield breaker then clearly the shield drama is a nonsense since he only encountered shields for 75 seconds in the time it took to generate 10 million lol.

No, it's just that he has not thought about spam from his light attack he met a guy with a shield.

Septimus_Magna wrote: »

The fact that there hasnt been a single reaction from ZOS in any shieldbreaker thread proves that they dont care about class balance or are too blind to see the problems.

ZOS doen't play Teso, ZOS play WoW....

WalksAmongShadows

Shield breaker is absolutely necessary in the game with shields still being ridiculously powerful against anyone not using said set. I do believe they should perhaps add a slight cooldown to the proc, for example so that every other bow light attack would proc it. The cooldown shouldn't have any effect on 1h and 2h weapon light attacks. I'm not sure if anybody actually uses staves with a medium armor set, so I guess we could ignore those for now.

Also, they should tone down shield mitigation, I suggest remove the complete crit-immunity for one, it's way over the top. When you go for highest possible shields, you aren't sacrificing any damage whatsoever to get it, rather you're just buffing your damage. Shouldn't be able to get best of the both worlds, great offense and great defense in one package, you should have to sacrifice other to gain other. Imagine if DK's got their damage from health and armor for example, it would be absolutely bonkers.

I wouldn't mind a potion that let people completely ignore shields for 10 seconds though, now that would be a true shield breaker. Potion of true strike anyone?

Fact remains, shield stacking sorcs are still overpowered against anyone not using a shield breaker set.

Emma_Overload

Levo18 wrote: »

The set is not broken and is long needed. Every class has a counter for their core mechanic except sorcs. Well now they have and are equal to all other classes. And thats why you sorcs are whining... Because you are not invincible anymore

No, this set is unneeded now, thanks to the 50% shield nerf. Playing a Sorc in the IC is like playing with half as much Health as everyone else. Don't you understand? When they nerfed Surge heals with 1.6, the Ward is ALL we had to survive. The 50% nerf is worse than the Shield Breaker set in my opinion.

Darnathian

Tankqull wrote: »

The_Outsider wrote: »

Stikato wrote: »

Xeven wrote: »

I have been watching this thread and have remained quiet for the most part. No reasonable Sorc is going to sit here and tell you that damage shields do not need a balance pass. They do. We know that and you know that.

There must not be that many reasonable sorcs then. I don't know how many of you said "L2P" and "attack the stamina pool" and other complete nonsense. None of you took the time to detail the multitude of skills that shields themselves break.

Shields break bleeds
Shields break crits
Shields break dots
Shields break ultimate gain (or did)
Shields broke many 5-piece set bonuses

Now, there is a 5 piece set that hurts shield users. And you are expecting sympathy or change?

I pvp'd in Memorial for a couple hours the other night with v15 gold shieldbreaker

I did 10M total damage
150k was shieldbreaker

(I will do some more runs and post more data if you want)

Say some of that was against mobs. Hell, say half of it. So, in the exaggerated example, that's 5 million vs players, with 150k being shieldbreaker. What's that, 3% bonus damage overall?

I'm sure in a couple situations, it led to a win. But you act there is an overall threat to the game with this set. And I don't see it.
Should this have been handled differently? Of course. But this is the solution. You can argue for perfection if you want but you will never get it. Many sorcs are still out there, kicking ass with magicka.

Are they as powerful as before? No. Because they were OP before, as you yourself point out. This is what a nerf feels like. It never should have come to this, but it is what is.

FWIW: my idea was to make shields function almost exactly like health.

Give them mitigation of the user. Make them able to be crit. Allow bleeds etc. So pluses and minuses. THEN you can adjust them properly to be reasonable. The sheer fact that they were implemented in such a weird, undocumented way, is what has led to all this confusion and BS.

The above is some of what I was looking for. Some actual numbers and maybe some data means so much more than... Well much of this thread imo.

Good stuff @Stikato

And yes, moar data plz.

his stats proof actually one thing - magica builds are nearly none existant and dying - as all of them rely on shields(NB/Sorcs immensly and DK/temp to a lesser extend thx to instant burstheals both have access too)...

Umm. What burst heal for dk's? Green dragon blood is useless now.

CP5

Darnathian wrote: »

Tankqull wrote: »

The_Outsider wrote: »

Stikato wrote: »

Xeven wrote: »

I have been watching this thread and have remained quiet for the most part. No reasonable Sorc is going to sit here and tell you that damage shields do not need a balance pass. They do. We know that and you know that.

There must not be that many reasonable sorcs then. I don't know how many of you said "L2P" and "attack the stamina pool" and other complete nonsense. None of you took the time to detail the multitude of skills that shields themselves break.

Shields break bleeds
Shields break crits
Shields break dots
Shields break ultimate gain (or did)
Shields broke many 5-piece set bonuses

Now, there is a 5 piece set that hurts shield users. And you are expecting sympathy or change?

I pvp'd in Memorial for a couple hours the other night with v15 gold shieldbreaker

I did 10M total damage
150k was shieldbreaker

(I will do some more runs and post more data if you want)

Say some of that was against mobs. Hell, say half of it. So, in the exaggerated example, that's 5 million vs players, with 150k being shieldbreaker. What's that, 3% bonus damage overall?

I'm sure in a couple situations, it led to a win. But you act there is an overall threat to the game with this set. And I don't see it.
Should this have been handled differently? Of course. But this is the solution. You can argue for perfection if you want but you will never get it. Many sorcs are still out there, kicking ass with magicka.

Are they as powerful as before? No. Because they were OP before, as you yourself point out. This is what a nerf feels like. It never should have come to this, but it is what is.

FWIW: my idea was to make shields function almost exactly like health.

Give them mitigation of the user. Make them able to be crit. Allow bleeds etc. So pluses and minuses. THEN you can adjust them properly to be reasonable. The sheer fact that they were implemented in such a weird, undocumented way, is what has led to all this confusion and BS.

The above is some of what I was looking for. Some actual numbers and maybe some data means so much more than... Well much of this thread imo.

Good stuff @Stikato

And yes, moar data plz.

his stats proof actually one thing - magica builds are nearly none existant and dying - as all of them rely on shields(NB/Sorcs immensly and DK/temp to a lesser extend thx to instant burstheals both have access too)...

Umm. What burst heal for dk's? Green dragon blood is useless now.

Some dk's got gdb to heal a massive amount of missing health. And with the damage reduction you can stay at a lower health percentage for longer, giving more time to get a stronger heal out of it. Still got hit very hard recently.

Darnathian

WalksAmongShadows wrote: »

Shield breaker is absolutely necessary in the game with shields still being ridiculously powerful against anyone not using said set. I do believe they should perhaps add a slight cooldown to the proc, for example so that every other bow light attack would proc it. The cooldown shouldn't have any effect on 1h and 2h weapon light attacks. I'm not sure if anybody actually uses staves with a medium armor set, so I guess we could ignore those for now.

Also, they should tone down shield mitigation, I suggest remove the complete crit-immunity for one, it's way over the top. When you go for highest possible shields, you aren't sacrificing any damage whatsoever to get it, rather you're just buffing your damage. Shouldn't be able to get best of the both worlds, great offense and great defense in one package, you should have to sacrifice other to gain other. Imagine if DK's got their damage from health and armor for example, it would be absolutely bonkers.

I wouldn't mind a potion that let people completely ignore shields for 10 seconds though, now that would be a true shield breaker. Potion of true strike anyone?

Fact remains, shield stacking sorcs are still overpowered against anyone not using a shield breaker set.

No cool down. Remove the set entirely a and remove shield stacking.

Kh0ll

I think zos should work on light armor and skill or healing ward.
The sorcerer class shield is like that absorbs 8 / 9k damage.

Joy_Division

The_Outsider wrote: »

Question: How much of this is hype? --People reacting to a few dramatic screenshots that give no context to the actual situation.
How many people are actually running this set? And how useful is it actually?-- A weighted bow user vs. your typical shield spammer, of course the result is obvious. But does this situation actually exist outside of a few screenshots?

BUT, how long does it take to 100%-0 a Sorc if ALL you are doing is light attacking? Isn't there ample time to counter attack(i.e. frag-to-face)? Especially if the spammer is doing nothing but light attacks?

I'm legitimately curious. Cause even after all the hype about how OP shieldbreaker is, I couldn't bring myself to buy the set last night! I'd be giving up a flat 250- ish weapon damage from my Hunding's Rage 5 piece! I need mah weapon damage!

Anyone else not sure they want to use it?

This is coming from a sorc who has argued that since 1.6 they have been stupid good.

There are not a lot of people out there running this set (at least as of yet). This might be more an issue of feasibility rather than choice as a VR16 set requires a decent amount of farming and while people who main a ranged stam (the best build for this set) would have those resources by now, those who play multiple characters probably do not. The first 3 set bonus are pretty good so a 5 piece user isn't exactly making a sacrifice to wear this, especially considering the prevalence of shields aside from sorcerers in Cyrodiil.

During the PTS phase, I basically had the same attitude as you did: wearing it is an investment, shields need some sort of counter, let's wait and see, etc. I usually run in groups so I don't have extensive experience against this set, though there have been three occasions in which I was in a 1v1 Vs. an opponent with this set.

As for how long it takes to burst from 100%-0, it does take time, enough time for a sorcerer to react. The problem is most sorcerers are not going to have them means to counter and react accordingly. If healing ward was simply a heal as opposed to a shield, I would have definitely been able to counter the opponent by eschewing hardened ward and healing when necessary, which I think is probably the intended mechanic of this set. I tired to go on the offensive to put pressure on the shieldbreaker user and rely on blood magic and surge procs to heal while doing damage, but this route is impractical against even someone with limited experience as they are still putting notable damage against me that I cant mitigate and possess limited means to heal through, whereas their skills still work fine against me. So in short, yes, there is ample time to counter-attack, though you have to fight without using your two best defensive skills.

What a sorcerer has to do currently is avoid fighting people who use this set (what I now do ... boring and stupid, yet effective) or slot blessing of restoration / mutagen instead of healing ward (which does nothing to address other problems: why should a single set in the game not just render a critical skill [the only burst heal available to non-templars] moot, but actually make it harmful to use ... especially since someone else could put the ward on you). This is what Dragonknights have to do now, which is equally stupid btw. A sorcerer who opts to go the "little" resto heal route does so without the innate defensive skills and passives that a Dragonknight has. So while that may make is possible to fight a shieldbreaker set user, you now have to slot three skills from the restoration staff bar, even though you are not a healer and in essence reorient your build and your class to deal with one armor set, which I do not think is intelligent, let alone, compelling game design. I also do not think hitting spamming the light attack button and doing 2K irresistible damage is intelligent or compelling game design, but apparently that opinion is not shared by many people who have been frustrated by sorcerers for the past six months.

This set is typical of ZoS's penchant for implementing dubious band-aid measures to deal balance complaints rather than identifying and correcting the root game mechanics that are the cause of Cyrodiil's problems. Shields are still stupid strong against everyone else but stupidly self defeating against someone with this set.

Francescolg

Derra wrote: »

Would you mind sharing what the counter to breath of life of a templar is, because when you come telling me healdebuffs i´ll have to break something.

Soulac wrote: »

all they did was spamming cleanse / BoL. There is nothing you could do in a situation like that. They don't run oom anyway.

Funny how people reduce anti-heal mechanics to heal-debuffs alone, I am sorry but that demonstrates your tunnel-vision way to think. Also, what other players wrote, that "Sorcerers have only their Hardened Ward and Bolt Escape for defense", is untrue and it has been one of the main-arguments, which lead to the current situation: ZOS not touching Hardened Ward + capless stats! The second main argument was: "healing ward is the real problem", which was also false. ALL dirty tricks in order not to loose that Hardened Ward! (but it's another story..) The best and last argument is: "this game is not balanced for 1:1!"..lol

1. Breath of Life is INTERRUPTABLE.
-> most sorcs went over to pure dw-instant builds or similar. Many stopped using Crushing Shock, which basically is the MAIN counter to Breath of Life spammers but in this thread, you spread false information: as if heal-debuff alone was the MAIN counter to heals.. such BS! This comes mostly from people, who refuse to take dd-interrupt skills on their bars, because they want just the "max spell/weapon" dmg obtainable...

2. Heal Debuffs are only (!) one of several ways to counter heals. So you got: heal debuffs, interrupt and CC / Silence, as counters. If you'd use (and I'm sure many do it) several heal-debuffs, combined with interrupt-mechanics, than cleanse+BoL spammers ARE no problem.

4. And to end this "templars spam such big heals"-argument: there are so many heal-debuff sets (also disease dmg), ultmates, skills, passives, even CP skills, etc., that I can not sum up all anti-heal possibilities. The trick lies in using them together with a good way to interrupt the healer, which is when skill comes into play. Every bow user can seriously harm a Templar with ease, any NB can. (and do not forget all Blazing Shield nurfs for pvp, which are a result of the "sorcerer + stamina dd's problem", as Blazing Shield has never been to strong in this game, except for Emperors and "tanky" hp-builds)

4. Assuming that the Shieldbreaker Set is an ANTI-absorb shield, I'll say that any SET which adds disease damage or healing-reduction is an ANTI-heal shield. From that follows that we've got way more anti-heal sets than anti-absorb shield sets.. So stop 'this' discussion about one singular anti-absorb shield set!

5. Sorcerers defensive abilities ARE MORE than just teleporting and shields. (self heal mechanics, HoTs, dodge, daedric mines, pets, etc. etc.)

6. What we're experiencing 'here', in this thread, is all a result of ZOS's unwillingness to bring Sorcerers skills/mechanics in line sooner. Sorcerers have been on the bright side of the game way longer than necessary, and nurfs where not done sufficiently. Absorb Shield spamming was there all the time before 1.6, also "unkillable sorcerers" were no 1.6 patch phenomena.

rokas.juodeikisb16_ESO

Shield breaker is good, against shield stackers.

You lose 5 piece bonus against anything else, so stop crying.

Kobaal

Waiting for all the console players to pick this thread up and start the entire 17 page conversation all over again

_adhyffbjjjf12

rokas.juodeikisb16_ESO wrote: »

Shield breaker is good, against shield stackers.

You lose 5 piece bonus against anything else, so stop crying.

I played with no shields last night, on average when in combat I was taking 8+k dps without shield breaker, that's 3 seconds and I'm dead. That's with minor and major armor skills up. 1 cc and I'm dead, more than 1 person hitting me, I'm dead.

Options? Run away all the time and try to sneak attacks. The only Heal I have is surge, so unless every sorcerer is force to go healer staff to - yes you guessed it shield then yes th class is heavily reliant on shields.

Now consider the layout of IC and sewers, spot the issue yet?

Try a bit of critical thinking before you post helps.

FriedEggSandwich

WalksAmongShadows wrote: »

Shield breaker is absolutely necessary in the game with shields still being ridiculously powerful against anyone not using said set. I do believe they should perhaps add a slight cooldown to the proc, for example so that every other bow light attack would proc it. The cooldown shouldn't have any effect on 1h and 2h weapon light attacks. I'm not sure if anybody actually uses staves with a medium armor set, so I guess we could ignore those for now.

Also, they should tone down shield mitigation, I suggest remove the complete crit-immunity for one, it's way over the top. When you go for highest possible shields, you aren't sacrificing any damage whatsoever to get it, rather you're just buffing your damage. Shouldn't be able to get best of the both worlds, great offense and great defense in one package, you should have to sacrifice other to gain other. Imagine if DK's got their damage from health and armor for example, it would be absolutely bonkers.

I wouldn't mind a potion that let people completely ignore shields for 10 seconds though, now that would be a true shield breaker. Potion of true strike anyone?

Fact remains, shield stacking sorcs are still overpowered against anyone not using a shield breaker set.

Fact remains; shield stacking sorcs have only ever been a problem for magicka builds, cos sorcs only stack 2 shields and one only absorbs magic, so stamina users have always been able to ignore it. Another fact remains; this set doesn't help those magicka builds who still have to deal with harness on top of hardened. Hardened Wards mitigation doesn't need toning down, and if they allowed it to be crit it would need a buff - fact. Currently my 9k Hardened Ward buys me 1-1.5 hits worth of breathing space. Another fact remains; shield breaker set does 2.1k damage when it procs, which is almost half the damage my Crystal Frags does when it procs.