Rise of The Perma-Dodger

Xsorus

Since he wanted to post his video in this thread, I'll post mine

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ZYLz0dY60g

Basically, if you wanna achieve perma roll dodging, You need to stack the hella out of stamina recovery, If you watch in his video He's taking a half a second to a second after each dodge roll to do it again..Anyone who's played a Medium Armor user in PvP knows you can't do this or you'll die.

A DK could probably hit 3k Stamina Recovery once he got all CP and ran all stamina recovery gear (meaning no weapon damage and such) it'll be a bit easier if its a Bosmer DK.

But to really Perma Dodge Roll, you're going to need around 4k Stamina Recovery, This will cover any CC you might get by..The heals you're going to need ect ect..and actually perma dodge rolling, as in not waiting that small amount of time afterward he is.

Bosmer Nightblade will be the only ones to do this..and they'll be a pain in the ass to kill i think..unless they get feared or Cced..then of course they'll die.

Poxheart

The first post of this thread is missing a LoL button.

raistin87

Apparently ZOS combat team stopped playing Dark Souls 1 (permablock) and started playing Dark Souls 2 (permaroll)

Xsorus

Galalin wrote: »

I feel partially responsible for this thread.... you all know this is a direct attempt to deflect the QQ of damage shields and BoL right?

Let me get my popcorn...

ADDED: Ezareth i love you bud.... one of the best sorcs i know and very knowledgeable but have fun with this one

DK SCRUB OUT

lol yeap

and whats sad is, there is one reason Roll Dodge will never be the next bolt escape ..

Radiant Destruction.

AltusVenifus

The OP is completely biased with blinders on for Sorcs... we all get that and so everything he says is suspect to be BS... however, infinity dodge roll should be fixed... same with anything that has zero net cost on regeneration... post would have more value if it discussed how under the same conditions a magic skill can be cast indefinitely...

Really wish some of us would start looking to create fair play instead of promote stupid agendas...

Xsorus

AltusVenifus wrote: »

The OP is completely biased with blinders on for Sorcs... we all get that and so everything he says is suspect to be BS... however, infinity dodge roll should be fixed... same with anything that has zero net cost on regeneration... post would have more value if it discussed how under the same conditions a magic skill can be cast indefinitely...

Really wish some of us would start looking to create fair play instead of promote stupid agendas...

The op is right in that perma dodge roll is possible, it however requires so much it's simply not worth it as a stamina build, you are better off going full dps at this point, as a perma dodge roller so much can still kill you there is no point in it

Galalin

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Galalin wrote: »

I feel partially responsible for this thread.... you all know this is a direct attempt to deflect the QQ of damage shields and BoL right?

Let me get my popcorn...

ADDED: Ezareth i love you bud.... one of the best sorcs i know and very knowledgeable but have fun with this one

DK SCRUB OUT

lol yeap

and whats sad is, there is one reason Roll Dodge will never be the next bolt escape ..

Radiant Destruction.

dodge roll is 5 feet not 20 meters... there are several skills that apply damage through dodgeroll... dodgeroll does not roll over ppl and stun them... there is no comparison to BoL "So for that reason... im out" Little Dragon Knight pun there for you all... i may have to change my sign off... that was rather clever lol.

on second thought... not all that clever.

DK SCRUB OUT

Ezareth

Galalin wrote: »

I feel partially responsible for this thread.... you all know this is a direct attempt to deflect the QQ of damage shields and BoL right?

Let me get my popcorn...

ADDED: Ezareth i love you bud.... one of the best sorcs i know and very knowledgeable but have fun with this one

DK SCRUB OUT

No I actually started writing this up a long while ago but I never got around to getting the time to make the video evidence to prove it.

And you can't troll a troll @galalin

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Since he wanted to post his video in this thread, I'll post mine


Basically, if you wanna achieve perma roll dodging, You need to stack the hella out of stamina recovery, If you watch in his video He's taking a half a second to a second after each dodge roll to do it again..Anyone who's played a Medium Armor user in PvP knows you can't do this or you'll die.

A DK could probably hit 3k Stamina Recovery once he got all CP and ran all stamina recovery gear (meaning no weapon damage and such) it'll be a bit easier if its a Bosmer DK.

But to really Perma Dodge Roll, you're going to need around 4k Stamina Recovery, This will cover any CC you might get by..The heals you're going to need ect ect..and actually perma dodge rolling, as in not waiting that small amount of time afterward he is.

Bosmer Nightblade will be the only ones to do this..and they'll be a pain in the ass to kill i think..unless they get feared or Cced..then of course they'll die.

And since you posted this here as well I'll copy paste my retort:

The first bit is worthless with stamina regen on your rings, cost reduction is far more useful.

The second bit with cost reduction you don't hit your potion at the right time. You should have hit it at exactly -5400 stamina (Tri-stats are actually more) so that you get the extra 20% Stamina regen given by the potions in and get the potion cooldowns ticking down as soon as possible.

On the dodge rolling, I'm aware you can dodge roll "Faster" than I was dodge rolling, but the immunity lasts longer than the actual GCD of the dodge roll itself which is why you don't see *any* good players dodge rolling like that. The ones I see that are impossible for me to hit with targetted spells while dodge rolling cast it very similarly to the way I did in my video.

I can run my magicka out similarly by animation cancelling my shields constantly to get the minimum GCD cooldown but it isn't practical or useful just as youre dodge roll spam isn't giving you any more benefit than mine did.

Everyone should also keep in mind that you were able chain spam dodge roll in your imperfect scenario 50+ times which is more than enough to escape any encounter that doesn't involve a full on zerg chasing you.

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

lol yeap

and whats sad is, there is one reason Roll Dodge will never be the next bolt escape ..

Radiant Destruction.

Bolt Escape will never be Dodge roll. One mitigates damage, the other puts distance between you and those attacking you.

...And if you're dying to Radiant Destruction while dodge rolling maybe you should try any number of defensive abilities that stop that or completely counter it. Dodge roll isn't an "I-win" button.

AltusVenifus wrote: »

The OP is completely biased with blinders on for Sorcs... we all get that and so everything he says is suspect to be BS... however, infinity dodge roll should be fixed... same with anything that has zero net cost on regeneration... post would have more value if it discussed how under the same conditions a magic skill can be cast indefinitely...

Really wish some of us would start looking to create fair play instead of promote stupid agendas...

I really wish people would read the thread before they commented on it. I don't have "blinders" on. I've been admitting all over my posts everywhere that resource generation and cost reduction is out of control. It is the dissenters here that instead of promoting true balance instead are aiming for class directed nerfs that make players other than themselves weaker.

That's fine by me. When I add a good 10 dodge rolls in the middle of my 20 bolt escapes I don't want to here anyone here commenting on how OP it is. Just keep after your class nerfs.

Ezareth

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

AltusVenifus wrote: »

The OP is completely biased with blinders on for Sorcs... we all get that and so everything he says is suspect to be BS... however, infinity dodge roll should be fixed... same with anything that has zero net cost on regeneration... post would have more value if it discussed how under the same conditions a magic skill can be cast indefinitely...

Really wish some of us would start looking to create fair play instead of promote stupid agendas...

The op is right in that perma dodge roll is possible, it however requires so much it's simply not worth it as a stamina build, you are better off going full dps at this point, as a perma dodge roller so much can still kill you there is no point in it

Perma dodge roll isn't even the point. How about dodge rolling for a minute straight until you're someplace safe? How many medium armor users will be capable of this? 50%? 70%?

That's fine by me. Math and sound logic win every time.

I have no interest in swaying the opinions of any of you as it isn't important. My intent was to put this evidence with the math to back it up in front of the devs and to make exactly how this is done known. Both of those objectives were achieved.

If this game turns into Whack-a-mole version 2.0 thats OK because I'll be one of the moles too.

Galalin

Ezareth wrote: »

Galalin wrote: »

I feel partially responsible for this thread.... you all know this is a direct attempt to deflect the QQ of damage shields and BoL right?

Let me get my popcorn...

ADDED: Ezareth i love you bud.... one of the best sorcs i know and very knowledgeable but have fun with this one

DK SCRUB OUT

No I actually started writing this up a long while ago but I never got around to getting the time to make the video evidence to prove it.

And you can't troll a troll @galalin

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Since he wanted to post his video in this thread, I'll post mine


Basically, if you wanna achieve perma roll dodging, You need to stack the hella out of stamina recovery, If you watch in his video He's taking a half a second to a second after each dodge roll to do it again..Anyone who's played a Medium Armor user in PvP knows you can't do this or you'll die.

A DK could probably hit 3k Stamina Recovery once he got all CP and ran all stamina recovery gear (meaning no weapon damage and such) it'll be a bit easier if its a Bosmer DK.

But to really Perma Dodge Roll, you're going to need around 4k Stamina Recovery, This will cover any CC you might get by..The heals you're going to need ect ect..and actually perma dodge rolling, as in not waiting that small amount of time afterward he is.

Bosmer Nightblade will be the only ones to do this..and they'll be a pain in the ass to kill i think..unless they get feared or Cced..then of course they'll die.

And since you posted this here as well I'll copy paste my retort:

The first bit is worthless with stamina regen on your rings, cost reduction is far more useful.

The second bit with cost reduction you don't hit your potion at the right time. You should have hit it at exactly -5400 stamina (Tri-stats are actually more) so that you get the extra 20% Stamina regen given by the potions in and get the potion cooldowns ticking down as soon as possible.

On the dodge rolling, I'm aware you can dodge roll "Faster" than I was dodge rolling, but the immunity lasts longer than the actual GCD of the dodge roll itself which is why you don't see *any* good players dodge rolling like that. The ones I see that are impossible for me to hit with targetted spells while dodge rolling cast it very similarly to the way I did in my video.

I can run my magicka out similarly by animation cancelling my shields constantly to get the minimum GCD cooldown but it isn't practical or useful just as youre dodge roll spam isn't giving you any more benefit than mine did.

Everyone should also keep in mind that you were able chain spam dodge roll in your imperfect scenario 50+ times which is more than enough to escape any encounter that doesn't involve a full on zerg chasing you.

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

lol yeap

and whats sad is, there is one reason Roll Dodge will never be the next bolt escape ..

Radiant Destruction.

Bolt Escape will never be Dodge roll. One mitigates damage, the other puts distance between you and those attacking you.

...And if you're dying to Radiant Destruction while dodge rolling maybe you should try any number of defensive abilities that stop that or completely counter it. Dodge roll isn't an "I-win" button.

AltusVenifus wrote: »

The OP is completely biased with blinders on for Sorcs... we all get that and so everything he says is suspect to be BS... however, infinity dodge roll should be fixed... same with anything that has zero net cost on regeneration... post would have more value if it discussed how under the same conditions a magic skill can be cast indefinitely...

Really wish some of us would start looking to create fair play instead of promote stupid agendas...

I really wish people would read the thread before they commented on it. I don't have "blinders" on. I've been admitting all over my posts everywhere that resource generation and cost reduction is out of control. It is the dissenters here that instead of promoting true balance instead are aiming for class directed nerfs that make players other than themselves weaker.

That's fine by me. When I add a good 10 dodge rolls in the middle of my 20 bolt escapes I don't want to here anyone here commenting on how OP it is. Just keep after your class nerfs.

But sometimes its fun to try... no hard feelings im just having way to much fun on the nerf front.... damage shields still OP though

DK SCRUB OUT

TheBull

How come we don't see people dodge rolling from keep to keep? Red herring?

Ezareth

Galalin wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

Galalin wrote: »

I feel partially responsible for this thread.... you all know this is a direct attempt to deflect the QQ of damage shields and BoL right?

Let me get my popcorn...

ADDED: Ezareth i love you bud.... one of the best sorcs i know and very knowledgeable but have fun with this one

DK SCRUB OUT

No I actually started writing this up a long while ago but I never got around to getting the time to make the video evidence to prove it.

And you can't troll a troll @galalin

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Since he wanted to post his video in this thread, I'll post mine


Basically, if you wanna achieve perma roll dodging, You need to stack the hella out of stamina recovery, If you watch in his video He's taking a half a second to a second after each dodge roll to do it again..Anyone who's played a Medium Armor user in PvP knows you can't do this or you'll die.

A DK could probably hit 3k Stamina Recovery once he got all CP and ran all stamina recovery gear (meaning no weapon damage and such) it'll be a bit easier if its a Bosmer DK.

But to really Perma Dodge Roll, you're going to need around 4k Stamina Recovery, This will cover any CC you might get by..The heals you're going to need ect ect..and actually perma dodge rolling, as in not waiting that small amount of time afterward he is.

Bosmer Nightblade will be the only ones to do this..and they'll be a pain in the ass to kill i think..unless they get feared or Cced..then of course they'll die.

And since you posted this here as well I'll copy paste my retort:

The first bit is worthless with stamina regen on your rings, cost reduction is far more useful.

The second bit with cost reduction you don't hit your potion at the right time. You should have hit it at exactly -5400 stamina (Tri-stats are actually more) so that you get the extra 20% Stamina regen given by the potions in and get the potion cooldowns ticking down as soon as possible.

On the dodge rolling, I'm aware you can dodge roll "Faster" than I was dodge rolling, but the immunity lasts longer than the actual GCD of the dodge roll itself which is why you don't see *any* good players dodge rolling like that. The ones I see that are impossible for me to hit with targetted spells while dodge rolling cast it very similarly to the way I did in my video.

I can run my magicka out similarly by animation cancelling my shields constantly to get the minimum GCD cooldown but it isn't practical or useful just as youre dodge roll spam isn't giving you any more benefit than mine did.

Everyone should also keep in mind that you were able chain spam dodge roll in your imperfect scenario 50+ times which is more than enough to escape any encounter that doesn't involve a full on zerg chasing you.

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

lol yeap

and whats sad is, there is one reason Roll Dodge will never be the next bolt escape ..

Radiant Destruction.

Bolt Escape will never be Dodge roll. One mitigates damage, the other puts distance between you and those attacking you.

...And if you're dying to Radiant Destruction while dodge rolling maybe you should try any number of defensive abilities that stop that or completely counter it. Dodge roll isn't an "I-win" button.

AltusVenifus wrote: »

The OP is completely biased with blinders on for Sorcs... we all get that and so everything he says is suspect to be BS... however, infinity dodge roll should be fixed... same with anything that has zero net cost on regeneration... post would have more value if it discussed how under the same conditions a magic skill can be cast indefinitely...

Really wish some of us would start looking to create fair play instead of promote stupid agendas...

I really wish people would read the thread before they commented on it. I don't have "blinders" on. I've been admitting all over my posts everywhere that resource generation and cost reduction is out of control. It is the dissenters here that instead of promoting true balance instead are aiming for class directed nerfs that make players other than themselves weaker.

That's fine by me. When I add a good 10 dodge rolls in the middle of my 20 bolt escapes I don't want to here anyone here commenting on how OP it is. Just keep after your class nerfs.

But sometimes its fun to try... no hard feelings im just having way to much fun on the nerf front.... damage shields still OP though

DK SCRUB OUT

Just wait until I out two-hander your 2 hander.

I hear the Stamina Sorc buff is OTW

Galalin

Ezareth wrote: »

Galalin wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

Galalin wrote: »

I feel partially responsible for this thread.... you all know this is a direct attempt to deflect the QQ of damage shields and BoL right?

Let me get my popcorn...

ADDED: Ezareth i love you bud.... one of the best sorcs i know and very knowledgeable but have fun with this one

DK SCRUB OUT

No I actually started writing this up a long while ago but I never got around to getting the time to make the video evidence to prove it.

And you can't troll a troll @galalin

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Since he wanted to post his video in this thread, I'll post mine


Basically, if you wanna achieve perma roll dodging, You need to stack the hella out of stamina recovery, If you watch in his video He's taking a half a second to a second after each dodge roll to do it again..Anyone who's played a Medium Armor user in PvP knows you can't do this or you'll die.

A DK could probably hit 3k Stamina Recovery once he got all CP and ran all stamina recovery gear (meaning no weapon damage and such) it'll be a bit easier if its a Bosmer DK.

But to really Perma Dodge Roll, you're going to need around 4k Stamina Recovery, This will cover any CC you might get by..The heals you're going to need ect ect..and actually perma dodge rolling, as in not waiting that small amount of time afterward he is.

Bosmer Nightblade will be the only ones to do this..and they'll be a pain in the ass to kill i think..unless they get feared or Cced..then of course they'll die.

And since you posted this here as well I'll copy paste my retort:

The first bit is worthless with stamina regen on your rings, cost reduction is far more useful.

The second bit with cost reduction you don't hit your potion at the right time. You should have hit it at exactly -5400 stamina (Tri-stats are actually more) so that you get the extra 20% Stamina regen given by the potions in and get the potion cooldowns ticking down as soon as possible.

On the dodge rolling, I'm aware you can dodge roll "Faster" than I was dodge rolling, but the immunity lasts longer than the actual GCD of the dodge roll itself which is why you don't see *any* good players dodge rolling like that. The ones I see that are impossible for me to hit with targetted spells while dodge rolling cast it very similarly to the way I did in my video.

I can run my magicka out similarly by animation cancelling my shields constantly to get the minimum GCD cooldown but it isn't practical or useful just as youre dodge roll spam isn't giving you any more benefit than mine did.

Everyone should also keep in mind that you were able chain spam dodge roll in your imperfect scenario 50+ times which is more than enough to escape any encounter that doesn't involve a full on zerg chasing you.

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

lol yeap

and whats sad is, there is one reason Roll Dodge will never be the next bolt escape ..

Radiant Destruction.

Bolt Escape will never be Dodge roll. One mitigates damage, the other puts distance between you and those attacking you.

...And if you're dying to Radiant Destruction while dodge rolling maybe you should try any number of defensive abilities that stop that or completely counter it. Dodge roll isn't an "I-win" button.

AltusVenifus wrote: »

The OP is completely biased with blinders on for Sorcs... we all get that and so everything he says is suspect to be BS... however, infinity dodge roll should be fixed... same with anything that has zero net cost on regeneration... post would have more value if it discussed how under the same conditions a magic skill can be cast indefinitely...

Really wish some of us would start looking to create fair play instead of promote stupid agendas...

I really wish people would read the thread before they commented on it. I don't have "blinders" on. I've been admitting all over my posts everywhere that resource generation and cost reduction is out of control. It is the dissenters here that instead of promoting true balance instead are aiming for class directed nerfs that make players other than themselves weaker.

That's fine by me. When I add a good 10 dodge rolls in the middle of my 20 bolt escapes I don't want to here anyone here commenting on how OP it is. Just keep after your class nerfs.

But sometimes its fun to try... no hard feelings im just having way to much fun on the nerf front.... damage shields still OP though

DK SCRUB OUT

Just wait until I out two-hander your 2 hander.

I hear the Stamina Sorc buff is OTW

Hahaha i don't doubt it... by then hopefully i will be switched builds and i will see you 2h and raise you a sword and shield.... nom nom nom.

DK SCRUB OUT

Xsorus

Ezareth wrote: »

Galalin wrote: »

I feel partially responsible for this thread.... you all know this is a direct attempt to deflect the QQ of damage shields and BoL right?

Let me get my popcorn...

ADDED: Ezareth i love you bud.... one of the best sorcs i know and very knowledgeable but have fun with this one

DK SCRUB OUT

No I actually started writing this up a long while ago but I never got around to getting the time to make the video evidence to prove it.

And you can't troll a troll @galalin

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Since he wanted to post his video in this thread, I'll post mine


Basically, if you wanna achieve perma roll dodging, You need to stack the hella out of stamina recovery, If you watch in his video He's taking a half a second to a second after each dodge roll to do it again..Anyone who's played a Medium Armor user in PvP knows you can't do this or you'll die.

A DK could probably hit 3k Stamina Recovery once he got all CP and ran all stamina recovery gear (meaning no weapon damage and such) it'll be a bit easier if its a Bosmer DK.

But to really Perma Dodge Roll, you're going to need around 4k Stamina Recovery, This will cover any CC you might get by..The heals you're going to need ect ect..and actually perma dodge rolling, as in not waiting that small amount of time afterward he is.

Bosmer Nightblade will be the only ones to do this..and they'll be a pain in the ass to kill i think..unless they get feared or Cced..then of course they'll die.

And since you posted this here as well I'll copy paste my retort:

The first bit is worthless with stamina regen on your rings, cost reduction is far more useful.

The second bit with cost reduction you don't hit your potion at the right time. You should have hit it at exactly -5400 stamina (Tri-stats are actually more) so that you get the extra 20% Stamina regen given by the potions in and get the potion cooldowns ticking down as soon as possible.

On the dodge rolling, I'm aware you can dodge roll "Faster" than I was dodge rolling, but the immunity lasts longer than the actual GCD of the dodge roll itself which is why you don't see *any* good players dodge rolling like that. The ones I see that are impossible for me to hit with targetted spells while dodge rolling cast it very similarly to the way I did in my video.

I can run my magicka out similarly by animation cancelling my shields constantly to get the minimum GCD cooldown but it isn't practical or useful just as youre dodge roll spam isn't giving you any more benefit than mine did.

Everyone should also keep in mind that you were able chain spam dodge roll in your imperfect scenario 50+ times which is more than enough to escape any encounter that doesn't involve a full on zerg chasing you.

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

lol yeap

and whats sad is, there is one reason Roll Dodge will never be the next bolt escape ..

Radiant Destruction.

Bolt Escape will never be Dodge roll. One mitigates damage, the other puts distance between you and those attacking you.

...And if you're dying to Radiant Destruction while dodge rolling maybe you should try any number of defensive abilities that stop that or completely counter it. Dodge roll isn't an "I-win" button.

AltusVenifus wrote: »

The OP is completely biased with blinders on for Sorcs... we all get that and so everything he says is suspect to be BS... however, infinity dodge roll should be fixed... same with anything that has zero net cost on regeneration... post would have more value if it discussed how under the same conditions a magic skill can be cast indefinitely...

Really wish some of us would start looking to create fair play instead of promote stupid agendas...

I really wish people would read the thread before they commented on it. I don't have "blinders" on. I've been admitting all over my posts everywhere that resource generation and cost reduction is out of control. It is the dissenters here that instead of promoting true balance instead are aiming for class directed nerfs that make players other than themselves weaker.

That's fine by me. When I add a good 10 dodge rolls in the middle of my 20 bolt escapes I don't want to here anyone here commenting on how OP it is. Just keep after your class nerfs.

A. and I told you in the previous thread you're wrong on not only the tri pot thing (i can make another video to prove it to ya) but the actual immunity of dodge roll itself..I can show a video of that as well..If you're stopping a half a second or a second after each dodge roll, You're doing it wrong and will only die for it.
Oh and lets not forget...I had more dodge cost reduction then you as well in my video.

B. Any number of defensive abilities that counter it? Which defensive abilities would that be? Short of Shielding yourself with something like Harness Magicka (Which will not help) there is no defensive ability that is going to save you from that..and yes I can provide you a video of that as well.

Ezareth wrote: »

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

AltusVenifus wrote: »

The OP is completely biased with blinders on for Sorcs... we all get that and so everything he says is suspect to be BS... however, infinity dodge roll should be fixed... same with anything that has zero net cost on regeneration... post would have more value if it discussed how under the same conditions a magic skill can be cast indefinitely...

Really wish some of us would start looking to create fair play instead of promote stupid agendas...

The op is right in that perma dodge roll is possible, it however requires so much it's simply not worth it as a stamina build, you are better off going full dps at this point, as a perma dodge roller so much can still kill you there is no point in it

Perma dodge roll isn't even the point. How about dodge rolling for a minute straight until you're someplace safe? How many medium armor users will be capable of this? 50%? 70%?

That's fine by me. Math and sound logic win every time.

I have no interest in swaying the opinions of any of you as it isn't important. My intent was to put this evidence with the math to back it up in front of the devs and to make exactly how this is done known. Both of those objectives were achieved.

If this game turns into Whack-a-mole version 2.0 thats OK because I'll be one of the moles too.

You're not going to dodge a minute straight against any competent player..The fact that it happened to you is hilarious.
And your intent was known..you wanna try and force people off your Sorc because they patched in skill.

Ezareth

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

Galalin wrote: »

I feel partially responsible for this thread.... you all know this is a direct attempt to deflect the QQ of damage shields and BoL right?

Let me get my popcorn...

ADDED: Ezareth i love you bud.... one of the best sorcs i know and very knowledgeable but have fun with this one

DK SCRUB OUT

No I actually started writing this up a long while ago but I never got around to getting the time to make the video evidence to prove it.

And you can't troll a troll @galalin

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Since he wanted to post his video in this thread, I'll post mine


Basically, if you wanna achieve perma roll dodging, You need to stack the hella out of stamina recovery, If you watch in his video He's taking a half a second to a second after each dodge roll to do it again..Anyone who's played a Medium Armor user in PvP knows you can't do this or you'll die.

A DK could probably hit 3k Stamina Recovery once he got all CP and ran all stamina recovery gear (meaning no weapon damage and such) it'll be a bit easier if its a Bosmer DK.

But to really Perma Dodge Roll, you're going to need around 4k Stamina Recovery, This will cover any CC you might get by..The heals you're going to need ect ect..and actually perma dodge rolling, as in not waiting that small amount of time afterward he is.

Bosmer Nightblade will be the only ones to do this..and they'll be a pain in the ass to kill i think..unless they get feared or Cced..then of course they'll die.

And since you posted this here as well I'll copy paste my retort:

The first bit is worthless with stamina regen on your rings, cost reduction is far more useful.

The second bit with cost reduction you don't hit your potion at the right time. You should have hit it at exactly -5400 stamina (Tri-stats are actually more) so that you get the extra 20% Stamina regen given by the potions in and get the potion cooldowns ticking down as soon as possible.

On the dodge rolling, I'm aware you can dodge roll "Faster" than I was dodge rolling, but the immunity lasts longer than the actual GCD of the dodge roll itself which is why you don't see *any* good players dodge rolling like that. The ones I see that are impossible for me to hit with targetted spells while dodge rolling cast it very similarly to the way I did in my video.

I can run my magicka out similarly by animation cancelling my shields constantly to get the minimum GCD cooldown but it isn't practical or useful just as youre dodge roll spam isn't giving you any more benefit than mine did.

Everyone should also keep in mind that you were able chain spam dodge roll in your imperfect scenario 50+ times which is more than enough to escape any encounter that doesn't involve a full on zerg chasing you.

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

lol yeap

and whats sad is, there is one reason Roll Dodge will never be the next bolt escape ..

Radiant Destruction.

Bolt Escape will never be Dodge roll. One mitigates damage, the other puts distance between you and those attacking you.

...And if you're dying to Radiant Destruction while dodge rolling maybe you should try any number of defensive abilities that stop that or completely counter it. Dodge roll isn't an "I-win" button.

AltusVenifus wrote: »

The OP is completely biased with blinders on for Sorcs... we all get that and so everything he says is suspect to be BS... however, infinity dodge roll should be fixed... same with anything that has zero net cost on regeneration... post would have more value if it discussed how under the same conditions a magic skill can be cast indefinitely...

Really wish some of us would start looking to create fair play instead of promote stupid agendas...

I really wish people would read the thread before they commented on it. I don't have "blinders" on. I've been admitting all over my posts everywhere that resource generation and cost reduction is out of control. It is the dissenters here that instead of promoting true balance instead are aiming for class directed nerfs that make players other than themselves weaker.

That's fine by me. When I add a good 10 dodge rolls in the middle of my 20 bolt escapes I don't want to here anyone here commenting on how OP it is. Just keep after your class nerfs.

A. and I told you in the previous thread you're wrong on not only the tri pot thing (i can make another video to prove it to ya) but the actual immunity of dodge roll itself..I can show a video of that as well..If you're stopping a half a second or a second after each dodge roll, You're doing it wrong and will only die for it.
Oh and lets not forget...I had more dodge cost reduction then you as well in my video.

B. Any number of defensive abilities that counter it? Which defensive abilities would that be? Short of Shielding yourself with something like Harness Magicka (Which will not help) there is no defensive ability that is going to save you from that..and yes I can provide you a video of that as well.

Ezareth wrote: »

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

AltusVenifus wrote: »

The OP is completely biased with blinders on for Sorcs... we all get that and so everything he says is suspect to be BS... however, infinity dodge roll should be fixed... same with anything that has zero net cost on regeneration... post would have more value if it discussed how under the same conditions a magic skill can be cast indefinitely...

Really wish some of us would start looking to create fair play instead of promote stupid agendas...

The op is right in that perma dodge roll is possible, it however requires so much it's simply not worth it as a stamina build, you are better off going full dps at this point, as a perma dodge roller so much can still kill you there is no point in it

Perma dodge roll isn't even the point. How about dodge rolling for a minute straight until you're someplace safe? How many medium armor users will be capable of this? 50%? 70%?

That's fine by me. Math and sound logic win every time.

I have no interest in swaying the opinions of any of you as it isn't important. My intent was to put this evidence with the math to back it up in front of the devs and to make exactly how this is done known. Both of those objectives were achieved.

If this game turns into Whack-a-mole version 2.0 thats OK because I'll be one of the moles too.

You're not going to dodge a minute straight against any competent player..The fact that it happened to you is hilarious.
And your intent was known..you wanna try and force people off your Sorc because they patched in skill.

Look man convincing you doesn't matter. I've wasted far too much time on that front and continuing further is pointless. You'll believe what you want to believe. The math is sound and nothing like what you're saying. You don't need to dodge roll at GCD speed to be immune and no one is ever being attacked by a pack of 10 fast attacking mobs either. Most deaths happen when being targetted by 1-3 people. Having 4 people (or more) on your death recap is extremely rare.

I'll just continued taking advantage of the broken mechanics until they fix them. I just added 2 more dodge rolls to my stamina bar and a huge reduction to break free on top of my 1000+ stamina regen and it's going to get easier from here. Unlimited magicka and soon more stamina than I can use.

AllPlayAndNoWork

I watched a Stam NB dodge 10+ attackers until they got bored chasing him across the map........... I mean really 10+ V14 players couldn't hit this guy, not even once. (He was marked & slowed (which dosn't do anything when rolling)).

Nice mechanics.

Lava_Croft

Magicka stacker complaining about Stamina stacker.

L O L.

bolt bolt bolt bolt bolt bolt bolt bolt bolt bolt bolt bolt bolt bolt bolt bolt

LegacyDM

Lol does no one use magicka detonation? I blow up roll Dodgers all the friggen time. Like the OP stated, there are counters. Roll dodging is a form of escape available to all classes and especially important to NB since cloak is lackluster compared to other classes o**** button. By nerfing dodge roll it will have a huge impact on magicka based users that can only dodge roll 2-3 times as is. Id support this if cloak worked as well as other skills, but as is, dodge rolling my only saving grace.

Ezareth

joshdm2001_ESO wrote: »

Lol does no one use magicka detonation? I blow up roll Dodgers all the friggen time. Like the OP stated, there are counters. Roll dodging is a form of escape available to all classes and especially important to NB since cloak is lackluster compared to other classes o**** button. By nerfing dodge roll it will have a huge impact on magicka based users that can only dodge roll 2-3 times as is. Id support this if cloak worked as well as other skills, but as is, dodge rolling my only saving grace.

As I said in another thread me and 2 other sorcs were chain spamming Mana detonation and Velocious curse against a dodge rolling DK for 45 second to a minute as he "rolled" to a keep. I'm well aware of how to damage a dodge roller but you're never going to kill an actually good player with self heals and/or shields with a curse/mana detonation rotation.

Secondly, I never suggested any nerf dodge roll. I only suggested that we decouple Dodge roll reduction from stamina cost reduction enchants. This wont affect magicka users at all unless they're using those enchants (which now I am).

Galalin

Ezareth wrote: »

joshdm2001_ESO wrote: »

Lol does no one use magicka detonation? I blow up roll Dodgers all the friggen time. Like the OP stated, there are counters. Roll dodging is a form of escape available to all classes and especially important to NB since cloak is lackluster compared to other classes o**** button. By nerfing dodge roll it will have a huge impact on magicka based users that can only dodge roll 2-3 times as is. Id support this if cloak worked as well as other skills, but as is, dodge rolling my only saving grace.

As I said in another thread me and 2 other sorcs were chain spamming Mana detonation and Velocious curse against a dodge rolling DK for 45 second to a minute as he "rolled" to a keep. I'm well aware of how to damage a dodge roller but you're never going to kill an actually good player with self heals and/or shields with a curse/mana detonation rotation.

Secondly, I never suggested any nerf dodge roll. I only suggested that we decouple Dodge roll reduction from stamina cost reduction enchants. This wont affect magicka users at all unless they're using those enchants (which now I am).

In all fairness we should then decouple bolt escape from reduce magicka enchants aswell no? Just the pure fact this nerf would not affect sorcs in any way shows bias im betting you maybe 1 of 5 sorcs in the game using stam reduction enchants but i could be wrong ... thats just my opinion as a stam DK (for the moment)

P.S. i have never seen you dodge roll.. if i were to speculate you use your stam for CC break... so as you clearly pointed out that your using these enchants decoupling dodge roll from stam reduce enchants would have 0 affect on you too

DK SCRUB OUT

Sharee

Ezareth wrote: »

The issue is the fact that currently there exists a way to reduce the cost of this action to less than half of its current cost without *any* sacrifice to damage or gearing.

...

Ezareth wrote: »

Next we're going to look at Stamina Cost reduction enchants on rings and next. Having all three VR14 Legendary Stamina cost reduction enchants reduces the cost of Stamina abilities, Dodge roll, and break free by 637.

Good thing there are no weapon damage enchants for jewelry, eh? Because if there were, not using them would be a significant sacrifice to damage.

Panda244

Sharee wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

The issue is the fact that currently there exists a way to reduce the cost of this action to less than half of its current cost without *any* sacrifice to damage or gearing.

...

Ezareth wrote: »

Next we're going to look at Stamina Cost reduction enchants on rings and next. Having all three VR14 Legendary Stamina cost reduction enchants reduces the cost of Stamina abilities, Dodge roll, and break free by 637.

Good thing there are no weapon damage enchants for jewelry, eh? Because if there were, not using them would be a significant sacrifice to damage.

@Sharee this is a joke right... Like seriously? 69 weapon damage? That's like... a whole... 100 more damage... Absolutely worthless, 3 of them might be worth it... if you REALLY want to go class cannon, but reduction enchants are the best atm.

Ezareth

Sharee wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

The issue is the fact that currently there exists a way to reduce the cost of this action to less than half of its current cost without *any* sacrifice to damage or gearing.

...

Ezareth wrote: »

Next we're going to look at Stamina Cost reduction enchants on rings and next. Having all three VR14 Legendary Stamina cost reduction enchants reduces the cost of Stamina abilities, Dodge roll, and break free by 637.

Good thing there are no weapon damage enchants for jewelry, eh? Because if there were, not using them would be a significant sacrifice to damage.

In 1.6 it is far more efficient to get your weapon damage from sources other than ring enchants. The damage enchants scaled worst than anything else in 1.6 and the cost reduction enchants are far more powerful. Few people that know what they're doing are using weapon (or spell) damage enchants, they are using cost reduction enchants because they significantly lower their ability cost.

The reality is that people would be using stamina cost reduction enchants regardless of them being decoupled from dodge roll and break free because the weapon damage is so weak right now. There is no sacrifice there.

I'll give you the point though *any* is incorrect and I thought I corrected that when I proof read my post, or maybe it was in one of my later statements.

Xsorus

I don't think anyone is not running the Cost Reduction Glyphs..they just nerfed every other jewelry enchant so badly they're useless

Vis

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Galalin wrote: »

I feel partially responsible for this thread.... you all know this is a direct attempt to deflect the QQ of damage shields and BoL right?

Let me get my popcorn...

ADDED: Ezareth i love you bud.... one of the best sorcs i know and very knowledgeable but have fun with this one

DK SCRUB OUT

lol yeap

and whats sad is, there is one reason Roll Dodge will never be the next bolt escape ..

Radiant Destruction.

News Flash: it goes through bolt and continues even if you've left max range.

Please roll a sorc so we don't have keep correcting you.

TheBull

Ezareth wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

The issue is the fact that currently there exists a way to reduce the cost of this action to less than half of its current cost without *any* sacrifice to damage or gearing.

...

Ezareth wrote: »

Next we're going to look at Stamina Cost reduction enchants on rings and next. Having all three VR14 Legendary Stamina cost reduction enchants reduces the cost of Stamina abilities, Dodge roll, and break free by 637.

Good thing there are no weapon damage enchants for jewelry, eh? Because if there were, not using them would be a significant sacrifice to damage.

In 1.6 it is far more efficient to get your weapon damage from sources other than ring enchants. The damage enchants scaled worst than anything else in 1.6 and the cost reduction enchants are far more powerful. Few people that know what they're doing are using weapon (or spell) damage enchants, they are using cost reduction enchants because they significantly lower their ability cost.

The reality is that people would be using stamina cost reduction enchants regardless of them being decoupled from dodge roll and break free because the weapon damage is so weak right now. There is no sacrifice there.

I'll give you the point though *any* is incorrect and I thought I corrected that when I proof read my post, or maybe it was in one of my later statements.

This is garbage. This is advice from a magicka sorc being given to stamina builds. Don't get me wrong 600 reduced cost feels very good, but the sacrifice to damage is very real.

It's a situation of "hey look! I just saved 2400 stamina on those 4 feats! Awesome!" The thing is I could have killed them in 3 or even 2 gcds and got out sooner with more weapon damage.

Reduction is viable for "you see me I see you and no one is coming" situations. That's not how a lot of stamina builds play though. Most prefer to see and kill you before you see them. In those situations, the situation that good players create most often damage is king.

RinaldoGandolphi

Yes roll dodging is one of the many issues going forward. As it renders single target skills useless outside of curse and magic detention afaik, if their is another skill from another class missing I apologize.

Just wait till they unlock tactician, then again the CS is clearly stacked in favor of stamina and physical damage anyways as most of the magic based ones stink in comparison.

Cody

tbh, i feel like the damage shield issue is a bigger issue, and bolt escape is far superior to dodge roll spam.

however, if a player is truly capable of rolling infinitely(which i doubt, as the max I can roll with most of these reductions is 10-12 times, while in all medium armor with everything into stamina) then it should be looked at.

Cody

Panda244 wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

Panda244 wrote: »

@Ezareth I dunno, I get hit while I'm dodge rolling, not much, but I get hit. Just rolled a Stamina build so I can't do it forever, but I'm working on it...

They shouldn't be able to dodge roll forever, no, that's like Sorcerers being able to Bolt-Escape forever. But they should be able to do it A LOT because it uses their offensive pool, and the reduction needs to be insanely high for it to work. I hardly ever use dodge roll inside combat, I just let Evasion work it's wonders... I use dodge roll to get away or charge my Ultimate.

Yes I get hit through dodge roll just like I get hit from 60 yards away by critical rush. Sometimes laggy cyrodiil is just laggy and what you see on your screen is not what other people see and the whole system just breaks down. We can't really balance the game around that.

Decoupling Dodge Roll reduction from Stamina Cost reduction enchants still allows you to reduce the cost of dodge roll to 2222. Most stamina build players are running around with 25K + stamina so this with regen will still allow a player to dodge roll for several minutes with regen and tri-pots. I'm asking for a relatively minor adjustment, not an extreme nerf. It's probably not enough to completely mitigate the problem altogether but I've always favored minor changes and testing in real scenarios to drastic changes and knee-jerk reactions.

Ashanne wrote: »

Well op is right...but coming from a sorc with ~3k magika regeneration (don't make me take screen shots from your videos ) and 2k spell damage its just hilarious (yea yea...we know you made sacrifices to get there...don't care)
and even more funny is that all sorcs are coming here to defend the QQ just as NBs are going over to the " rise of sorc" post.
LOL...
weren't sorcs recommending that a nb to avoid deaths from a sorc needs to roll dodge? I guess NBs finally L2P

At least this game has evolved from 1 fotY(dk bathrobe spammers/snipe spammers ) to 2 fotms (sorcs and 2h ers perma dodgers).
Funny how the OP builds right now complain on the forums (yea I know you guys are not op..its just a L2p issue spare me the comments, don't care again)

I have less than 2400 magicka regen and less than 1800 spell power with my current build. The video you're speaking of saw me full Light Armor (Which I no longer can justify wearing), Entropy up (+20% Spell power) and a tri-pot active which boosted my regen by another 20%

All that said, don't forget I'm advocating changing Magicka regen in the same way I'm advocating changing stamina regen.

These changes weren't suggested to remove the abilities of players to dodge-roll, personally I rely on it myself. In fact as soon as get enough AP I'm buying 2 more Cyrodiil light rings to run 3 Stamina-cost reduction enchants as a Magicka user because it is that good right now.

I'll freely admit I'm a min/maxer and I take advantage of every shred of utility and power I can squeeze out of anything. Unlike many of these players however I'm revealing my research and knowledge for the good of the community in an attempt to achieve balance.

Balance will never be achieved. Zenimax goes from one extreme to the other, Siege is a perfect example of it. The game will always have issues, the least we can do is hope these issues get toned down in time. But yea, regen and cost reduction need to be reworked, because currently, with Crassus's magic build I can legitimately SPAM wings and not have my magic decrease. I'm not talking every 4s, I'm talking every button press.

I noticed when I fought you:D

Erock25

Cody wrote: »

tbh, i feel like the damage shield issue is a bigger issue, and bolt escape is far superior to dodge roll spam.

however, if a player is truly capable of rolling infinitely(which i doubt, as the max I can roll with most of these reductions is 10-12 times, while in all medium armor with everything into stamina) then it should be looked at.

What is your stamina regen at?