Remove hardened ward

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO

Teargrants wrote: »

Do you guys even PvP? Vigor + Rally is an extremely strong heal, NB stam build synergizes with it better than any other class because of the extra stam regen. Stacking regen is extremely powerful without soft caps. NBs can easily stack over 3k stam regen and literally dodge roll forever. Dodge roll will mitigate all almost all types of incoming dmg for the couple seconds, shields will only mitigate a set amount.

Next you will say "can't dps while dodging", which isn't true if you weave atks between dodges.

For the love of Sithis where to start regen with not let you get pass shields and but the time you do they have more then enough magic to put it back up Vigor is *** AWESOMENESS but keep in mind it's rank 24 to get it and a whole lot of people in PvP and even fewer alts are there so the point is moot, roll dodging and firing off stamina Attacks kills your stamina and means you are using the far weaker Instant cast bow powers that's not killing ANYONE without burst damage behind it make a Nightblade and pick up a bow before you make a great build on paper or in your head cause that 3k regen build wouldn't kill much but could roll forever = completely unless

Tankqull

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »

Teargrants wrote: »

Do you guys even PvP? Vigor + Rally is an extremely strong heal, NB stam build synergizes with it better than any other class because of the extra stam regen. Stacking regen is extremely powerful without soft caps. NBs can easily stack over 3k stam regen and literally dodge roll forever. Dodge roll will mitigate all almost all types of incoming dmg for the couple seconds, shields will only mitigate a set amount.

Next you will say "can't dps while dodging", which isn't true if you weave atks between dodges.

For the love of Sithis where to start regen with not let you get pass shields and but the time you do they have more then enough magic to put it back up Vigor is *** AWESOMENESS but keep in mind it's rank 24 to get it and a whole lot of people in PvP and even fewer alts are there so the point is moot, roll dodging and firing off stamina Attacks kills your stamina and means you are using the far weaker Instant cast bow powers that's not killing ANYONE without burst damage behind it make a Nightblade and pick up a bow before you make a great build on paper or in your head cause that 3k regen build wouldn't kill much but could roll forever = completely unless

bow HA > shields
they dont consume but give stamina cant be rupted and can be weaved with all other bow attacks. L2P befor complaining.

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO

Rylana wrote: »

Sorry OP, youre just gonna have to keep flinging lethal arrows at me from the keep walls and ill just mock you by pressing 2 over and over and over and over and over and over and over

And I might even crystal frag your ass for the trouble while im at it.

Stop trying to plink me from range and I wouldnt troll you with shields. Fair enough? Fair enough.

So in your mind I should wait till you break down the wall and face me face to face instead of just Sniping you down (with all the other Archers) while you're in ranger forcing a friend to pick you up slowing down your seige giving back up more time to get there... sure if you are one of the many who say Bow tart cause you hate range stop playing a game with range or.... just I don't know get 3k magic regen and keep shields up forever apparently it would work with stamina and rolling

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO

Using a Bow in heavy takes away cost reduction, regen, crit, and weapon power also loss the cost reduction on rolling to yea you take more hits but you don't have Regen, power or roll dodging.

So you're skills would cost more, do less and take longer to full your resource pool

Edit: quote come out wrong after I tried to just quote the last line

Rylana

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »

Rylana wrote: »

Sorry OP, youre just gonna have to keep flinging lethal arrows at me from the keep walls and ill just mock you by pressing 2 over and over and over and over and over and over and over

And I might even crystal frag your ass for the trouble while im at it.

Stop trying to plink me from range and I wouldnt troll you with shields. Fair enough? Fair enough.

So in your mind I should wait till you break down the wall and face me face to face instead of just Sniping you down (with all the other Archers) while you're in ranger forcing a friend to pick you up slowing down your seige giving back up more time to get there... sure if you are one of the many who say Bow tart cause you hate range stop playing a game with range or.... just I don't know get 3k magic regen and keep shields up forever apparently it would work with stamina and rolling

My sorc is also a ranged caster. I dont need to be "in your face" but I do need to be 1/2 the distance of your ranged abilities closer to you than you need to be to me to even hit you.

Therefore I will spam hardened ward all day with a smile on my face as you try to hide after that postern goes down.
'
So while youre jumping off the outpost/keep/resource tower wall spamming your stealths going "oh crap oh crap oh crap" running, remember just 10 seconds before that I was spamming my shields going "oh crap oh crap oh crap" because I had NO WAY TO HIT YOU.

This is why I loathe people trying to justify crap like this thread. They can never see past their own narrow perspective and realize that without counters in the game like hardened ward, they would have literal easy mode I-win. If my sorc didnt have shields id be dead from bow users 100 percent of the time. Im not your cannon fodder.

Skafsgaard

Dont remove it.

But sorc must also be realist that if you are not a wreckingblow/snipe spamming stam user, that shield is waay off the charts. Let's make it scale off of max health, and everything would be as it should be.

Magick sorc complaing about bow user with 10k+ shield? You guys have streak... you can just gtfo if you want to, other magicka buils have no escape from the snipers/crit rushers and lesser shields... so yea, something is not right as it is, but removing it is just a bad way of doing stuff (it is a ZoS type approach, as what they did/or didnt do with a lot of templar skills, like adding CC to our (pre 1.6) primary magicka dmg skill - no good templar will never use it now, but I guess it's the ZoS way).

And if sorc dont want their shield to scale of max health, provide shield options for all to scale off of primary damage resource.

RinaldoGandolphi

This sorc qq needs to stop, its outright assume. If you can't kill a sorc because of damage shields its a 100% l2p issue.

The wards sorcs get in this game stink anyhow considering in "in lore" TES mages got real wards such as Aegis and Dragonhide from the alteration school of magic that would flat out reduce all damage taken by 50% for 30seconds, imagine the qq on here if mages were actually TES accurate lorrwise, and actually had real alteration school magic wards.

Just stop with this nonsense. QQ, QQ, QQ is all I have seen here lately. All the other classes are tough too if played correctly, this constant calling for sorc nerfs are absurb, we are the most needed class in the game, Negate was gutted and was the biggest nerf in the history of this game, expert mage us trash now, crushing shock has a nerf as well, we were nerfed more then anyone in 1.6, where does it end with you people, when the class is no longer viable to play?

Merlin13KAGL

@kendellking_chaosb14_ESO

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »

First off to all the Sorcs incase you don't know ALL sorcerers spam stack shields...

Right, 'cause all archers don't spam Lethal Arrow/Snipe. And it's the shields that make you do this, not the 42m+ range you have on your weapon. (That's 10% of that super magicka pool via BE to even get within range of you if you're not on the move, btw.)

... thank your friends with 24-28k Magic...

How much health are you sitting on? How much stamina?

Thought so...we have the same point spread as you do and we don't complain because you can get higher weapon damage, do we?

Cool for your to stack your resource, but not the other way around. Got it.

...and unlimited Magica with heavy resto for that

This may be my favorite part.

Unlimited magic w/restro staff...

1. You, too, can wield this non-sorc exclusive weapon.
2. Many Sorcs don't wield this non-sorc exclusive weapon.
3. Restro Heavy's are slow, cumbersumb, leave you open for attack, and don't restore anything if they get terminated early. It's a channeled attack...
4. Restro Heavy attack is not exactly hitting you for 10k and is hardly a magicka battery. If you're continuously letting someone refill their magicka pool via Restro, you are missing opportunities.
5. If you're dying from Restro HA's, that's a whole other issue.

Having a 9k damage shield basically forces Stamina builds to make 3-4k weapon damage slamming you with 12-17k crit Snipes I would know I'm one of them (3k WD 12k Focused Aim) this will continue a perpetual cycle of more power > more shields > more power > more shields...

Right again, 'cause there aren't people running around out there with 35k health and shields.

So shields you can burst with three weapon attacks - not even heavy's, by your numbers, or one skill attack is your issue?

3*3k = 9k , 3*4k >> 9k, 1 * 12k >>9k...

You can drop a shield with three attacks that cost you no stamina from a ridiculous range or you can drop a shield with a single button press, yet you complain that shields are a single button press...

Shields aren't the reason for your build. The numbers, your numbers would be just as high if there was not shield number one in the game.

You enjoy the highest range of any weapon class, even more with certain sets, you get almost the same benefit of Heavy Armor with all the stamina benefits of the Medium line.

You have higher stamina pool which you can use to deplete our higher Magicka pool.

It's a war of resources against any class. With high damage from safe distance, I don't know know how, but sorry to hear you're losing it.

Incidentally, distance should be inversely proportional to damage output, as it's directly proportional to your safety factor. This means two hander should knock you on your butt, staves somewhere in between, and bow on the low end. As the distance gets reduced, the damage should increase (before you whine about 'don't nerf bow.'

Presently you get high damage and almost zero risk factor, simply by using the environment to your advantage, without casting a single thing.

Incidentally, 3-4k weapon damage w/12k-17k non-ultimate-skills are the reason we stack shields... Now you know, you have a way to fix your own problem.

Get over the fact that you don't get to one-shot/two-shot us anymore, that you actually have to earn it.

...just accept it and move on

Rylana

To summarize this thread:

Those for it: "I stack so much weapon damage I can hit someone for 20-30k depending if im coming out of stealth, its wrong that anyone can survive my damage, ive specced fully into it, it is not fair"

Those against it: "I stack specifically to thwart your cheese, deal with it."

Ezareth

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DVMNQozxqos&t=227

According to ZoS this is working as intended. Now quite crying and L2P. I don't know whether it is Tamriel Unlimited Newbs or just the usual crying NB segment but it is getting old.

Derra

Remove teleport, blazing shield, breath of life, green dragonblood, reflective scales, cloak, fear, healing ward, harness magica, snipe, dodgeroll and all 1 button gap closers along with it. Give light armor a movement speed bonus - Heavy armor a movement speed penalty.

While we´re at it just remove every skill and call it Tamriel Unlimited: Bare knuckle bear fighting.

Kypho

just mitigate 50% physical attacks. at least its magical ward or something.

Kypho

Rylana wrote: »

Deviante wrote: »

always amusing how fast all the sorcs jump up and down claiming there *** isnt ridiculous

Always amuses me how when you take away literally the only real defense a sorc has, they become nothing but a one shot kill because most are LA with sub20k health.

Oh, thats what you want isnt it. Single button easy mode. Sorry about that, wont let it happen.

Ye all defend the OP ness, like DK did. Or Templars when they had OP ability. Or when NB had the overpowered cloak... oh wait

RinaldoGandolphi

Kypho wrote: »

Rylana wrote: »

Deviante wrote: »

always amusing how fast all the sorcs jump up and down claiming there *** isnt ridiculous

Always amuses me how when you take away literally the only real defense a sorc has, they become nothing but a one shot kill because most are LA with sub20k health.

Oh, thats what you want isnt it. Single button easy mode. Sorry about that, wont let it happen.

Ye all defend the OP ness, like DK did. Or Templars when they had OP ability. Or when NB had the overpowered cloak... oh wait

Hardened Ward isn't OP. Its good for one, maybe 2 hits. The sorc is doing no damage when recasting and its not free.

The bottom line is glass cannon builds, mostly nightblades, whine a build focused on sustainability and suvival trumps their all out offense build.

If sorcs were so op, why did I fill a 20 sorc contract in 20 mins, and I run much less spell power then most sorcs, learn to play. You will never kill me with bows as I have a 62% damage mitigation to stealth attacks I have soeced for because I got tired of being one shot from ridiculous range. I didn't QQ, I adapted and overcame, you can do the same just like I did with DK in 1.5 and prior.

Snit

Kypho wrote: »

Ye all defend the OP ness, like DK did. Or Templars when they had OP ability. Or when NB had the overpowered cloak... oh wait

If you don't have the gear to take down hardened ward in two hits, and you don't have the skill to drain the sorc's stamina pool, then you may be out of luck against good players with better gear.

Merlin13KAGL

Ezareth wrote: »

According to ZoS this is working as intended. Now quite crying and L2P. I don't know whether it is Tamriel Unlimited Newbs or just the usual crying NB segment but it is getting old.

@Ezareth , I think I know the answer to that one...

Kypho wrote: »

Ye all defend the OP ness, like DK did. Or Templars when they had OP ability. Or when NB had the overpowered cloak... oh wait

Bouvin

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

Shields are strong for any class, period. The point of me showing all of this is that. If you don't like damage shields, you're playing the wrong game.

Ultimately, I don't know what the massive crying about is from people about Hardened Ward. Magicka builds are going to have higher damage shields because most run light armor for full potential of their builds. Defensive mechanisms are available to all classes. If you haven't figured them out, or how to get around them, then I'm not sure anyone can help you.

Except for Nightblade Shields. Nightblade shields are pretty weak.

SafiyerAmitora

My mains may be a NB and DK, but I still agree that Sorcs should have their hardened ward. It's bad enough that they're getting nerfed quite a lot (Streak, Negate, etc.), but taking away one of their only good defensive abilities? No. Just no. It's much more fun to fight those Sorcs who can actually have the chance to hit back because they had their ward to help protect themselves, rather than rip them apart in a couple blows when they stood little to no chance because their best line of defense was taken from them. Yes, it's not as powerful as you're making it out to be, but it's still pretty dang good. As if my opinion matters, but the nerfs Sorcs are getting needs to stop. They deserve an op ability or two, just like any other class. Let them have their ward. They're being nerfed enough as it is.

Tankqull

Bouvin wrote: »

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

Shields are strong for any class, period. The point of me showing all of this is that. If you don't like damage shields, you're playing the wrong game.

Ultimately, I don't know what the massive crying about is from people about Hardened Ward. Magicka builds are going to have higher damage shields because most run light armor for full potential of their builds. Defensive mechanisms are available to all classes. If you haven't figured them out, or how to get around them, then I'm not sure anyone can help you.

Except for Nightblade Shields. Nightblade shields are pretty weak.

healing ward and dampen magic are actually the strongest shields you can have... last time ive checked Nbs had them in their repertoire...

Ezareth

Tankqull wrote: »

Bouvin wrote: »

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

Shields are strong for any class, period. The point of me showing all of this is that. If you don't like damage shields, you're playing the wrong game.

Ultimately, I don't know what the massive crying about is from people about Hardened Ward. Magicka builds are going to have higher damage shields because most run light armor for full potential of their builds. Defensive mechanisms are available to all classes. If you haven't figured them out, or how to get around them, then I'm not sure anyone can help you.

Except for Nightblade Shields. Nightblade shields are pretty weak.

healing ward and dampen magic are actually the strongest shields you can have... last time ive checked Nbs had them in their repertoire...

Correct. Both healing ward and Dampen magic can *far* exceed the value given by Hardened Ward.

In Cyrodiil my Dampen Magick is upwards of 12K. My max healing ward is 16K. My Hardened ward is 10K.

Enough of this NB whining.

Francescolg

Skafsgaard wrote: »

But sorc must also be realist that if you are not a wreckingblow/snipe spamming stam user, that shield is waay off the charts. Let's make it scale off of max health, and everything would be as it should be.
(...)
And if sorc dont want their shield to scale of max health, provide shield options for all to scale off of primary damage resource.

That is the most well thought answer in this thread! Second, every class has to choose whether to go for survivability or/vs more damage. Actually every class except the sorcerer has to do so.
What is not fair in the status quo is simply that: as a sorcerer you can go for both: max spell dmg / magicka + max/best absorb shield. I hope this gap will be closed as it was in PvP for DKs & Templars with the nurf of HP-coefficients.

Every class should pay a price if they decide not to put one single point into Health. Sorcerers at the moment don't have to do so, they get the - by far - best absorb shield for all types of incoming damage.

With my Templar I can't get down any sorc shield (if they know how to play). They simply CC-break any CC-attempt and hold their shield up at >50% hp (they even don't need their second shield "healing ward" at all).
My best DD does about 600 dmg and has a 1 sec cast time combined with a heal debuff.
With lots of efforts (and a really bad Blazing Shield because of the decision to spec in DD instead of survivability - see above) I can make it crit for 900+.
Whereas the sorcerer shield absorbs 10k every single time they hit one button, I have to hit 2-4 buttons to obtain the same damage, try CC, etc. etc. (talking about Templar-builds based on magicka)

---

Good idea! Make their shield HP-based = problem solved!

Jitterbug

Tankqull wrote: »

spelling and grammar errors are free to be abused

That would be "grammatical" :-P

edit: all things aside this actually turned out to be a good thread i think

Tankqull

Francescolg wrote: »

Skafsgaard wrote: »

But sorc must also be realist that if you are not a wreckingblow/snipe spamming stam user, that shield is waay off the charts. Let's make it scale off of max health, and everything would be as it should be.
(...)
And if sorc dont want their shield to scale of max health, provide shield options for all to scale off of primary damage resource.

That is the most well thought answer in this thread! Second, every class has to choose whether to go for survivability or/vs more damage. Actually every class except the sorcerer has to do so.
What is not fair in the status quo is simply that: as a sorcerer you can go for both: max spell dmg / magicka + max/best absorb shield. I hope this gap will be closed as it was in PvP for DKs & Templars with the nurf of HP-coefficients.

Every class should pay a price if they decide not to put one single point into Health. Sorcerers at the moment don't have to do so, they get the - by far - best absorb shield for all types of incoming damage.

With my Templar I can't get down any sorc shield (if they know how to play). They simply CC-break any CC-attempt and hold their shield up at >50% hp (they even don't need their second shield "healing ward" at all).
My best DD does about 600 dmg and has a 1 sec cast time combined with a heal debuff.
With lots of efforts (and a really bad Blazing Shield because of the decision to spec in DD instead of survivability - see above) I can make it crit for 900+.
Whereas the sorcerer shield absorbs 10k every single time they hit one button, I have to hit 2-4 buttons to obtain the same damage, try CC, etc. etc. (talking about Templar-builds based on magicka)

---

Good idea! Make their shield HP-based = problem solved!

that does not solve anything. with light armor shield and restostaff shield as they are you are not going to harm any sorc with the dmg values you claim to have...

Jitterbug wrote: »

Tankqull wrote: »

spelling and grammar errors are free to be abused

That would be "grammatical" :-P

weisenheimer

Atreyu

Francescolg wrote: »

My best DD does about 600 dmg and has a 1 sec cast time combined with a heal debuff

are u pvping naked , using your bare hands or?

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO

I just love how sorcerer always say the bow can hit at twice the range it's a *** bow it's a range weapon It wouldn't make sense of it don't have the longest range.

Yes we spam Snipe (hardest hitting bow power we have but let me give you a lesson on the bow

1)because of the distance it drops your weapon power even in 1.5 you lose power when you use it

2) it was nerfed in 1.6 by 10% base so the weapon that drops your power fell even more

3)keep in mind the other powers have normal range 10-28m (more in Cyrodiil in Q so can't see the Curodiil bonus) Snipe is the only one with 35m range and that one power with superior range
Is was the WHOLE of the bow line was nerfed another 10% that's 20% when add to debuff it already had

4)Casters stack shields how do you break a shield you output more damage so you can't *** about having to stack shields cause of Snipe and Uppercut no one in their right mind would use a weaker power to get through a 9k damage shield

5) I have a 5 heavy caster I can tell you right now two heavy attack plus mad regen back to full so not seeing your point there it works yes you take a few hits just like EVERY one else that heavy Attacks or channel, the stamina you get from heavy attack is ok but 30% magic from just one Attack my caster roll unlimited magic

6) Us mere mortals only have ten power slots and two ultimates Sorceres have fifteen power slots and two ultimates simply having Overloads third bar removes an point you can make you could move all your class and Armor, Guild, World or Alliance War powers to letting Sorceres have five Utilities more than every other class

Have you ever used a Bow cause you're not winning a fight with Poison Arrow (takes 10 seconds for full damage) and heavy Attacks snipe is full damage up front

Francescolg

Atreyu wrote: »

are u pvping naked , using your bare hands or?

I'm sorry, I'm still thinking in old pre-1.6 values I meant about 6000 dmg, I can push it for 7k+ but than m absorb shield (Blazing Shield) would only be around 6000.

Ezareth

Atreyu wrote: »

Francescolg wrote: »

My best DD does about 600 dmg and has a 1 sec cast time combined with a heal debuff

are u pvping naked , using your bare hands or?

Atreyu wrote: »

Francescolg wrote: »

My best DD does about 600 dmg and has a 1 sec cast time combined with a heal debuff

are u pvping naked , using your bare hands or?

He's still playing 1.5 and is waiting to try out 1.6.

What they need to do is bring medium armor down to the protection offered by light. Why should NBs and stamina builds get a max DPS armor and ability to dodge roll infinitely while sorcs have to rely on a single spell that we have to keep 100% full at all times lest we get 1-shot by any scrub with a bow?

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO

Infinite dodge roll play a stamina build bro cause I have three casters five stamina builds none can roll for ever we have my stamina and cheaper cost so we can roll more but not forever or for very long

cschwingeb14_ESO

I wish the people theory crafting sorcs that can have max spell damage and max magicka for shields and enough health/armor to not be 3-shot during a stun, enough stam/stam regen for more than 2 break frees, enough magicka regen to keep spamming shields, slots for harness, hardened ward, healing ward, streak, entropy AND actual damage/utility skills would post their gear, stats and builds.

I need a good laugh

Pancake-Tragedy

Is this how you non-sorcs feel about hardened ward?