Talons - Should Be Nerfed

madangrypally

If it makes you feel any better once Update 6 goes live many many DKs will likely be switching to stamina builds. Some DKs will jump ship to Templar (new class everyone things is OP). And Standards will be much further in between uses.

Talons does not need a nerf. I also do not play a DK and I am saying this. DKs have gone through to many nerfs recently.

Just wait the focus will turn to Templars next and then after they are nerfed over the next few months will switch to a new class. Not because they are really OP but because people perceive a power difference people switch to that class. This in turn makes more of those seemingly OP classes which means it seems they are stronger when in truth they are just greater in number.

A never ending nerf/buff cycle with flavor of the month crowd following what they perceive is the best. Sad thing is no matter what this flavor crowd changes to they remain average at best.

snipeopsub17_ESO

[/quote} It's a not a CC, therefor, no immunity. Please, understand that..... [/quote].

CC stands for Crowd Control. An ability that roots several people in one spot is by definition controlling a crowd.

SanderBuraas

snipeopsub17_ESO wrote: »

It's a not a CC, therefor, no immunity. Please, understand that.....

.

CC stands for Crowd Control. An ability that roots several people in one spot is by definition controlling a crowd.

Indeed. There obviously is difference between various crowd controls, such as a disorient, stun and root, but you should recieve immunity regardless. You use the root well knowing it will not have the same effect as a stun, but the target should recieve immunity when they break out of it.

In a game where there are no cooldowns, this is crucial.

Panda244

As a friend of mine said in a different thread.

Thorjagger wrote: »

DK talon spam. Defining the difference between a good DK and a bad DK.

Now, let's do some CC math, related to ESO.

Hard CC = 6 Seconds of CC Immunity
Soft CC = No CC Immunity, Period.
Talons = Soft CC.

I have a few things to say regarding this topic.
First, L2P, Talons has counters. @Cody don't hate me for saying that, again.
Second, this issue is going to be relatively fixed in 1.6.
Third, if they ever implement Soft CC Immunity, then by all means, Talons will have an immunity timer, but that's not related to the skill, that's related to CC Immunity and the difference between Soft CC and Hard CC.
Fourth, and last, but definitely the best.

Now to be serious, Talons is not overpowered, the only people that die to Talons are people that have no more Stamina to roll out, don't have Purge slotted on their bars, or are on low Health and would've died no matter what. Talons is a Soft CC, and a Root, it does not fall under the same category as say, Wrecking Blow, which is a Hard CC, and a Stun. Soft CC's in Elder Scrolls Online do not have any CC Immunity, regardless of whether it is Root, Snare, or Disorient, however, if they ever decide to add Soft CC Immunity to the game, then by all means I will be inclined to agree with you, that said, Talons would need to be under that category and require CC Immunity. But. Currently, there is no Soft CC Immunity in the game, so Talons is perfectly fine as is, if you want to make a thread about Soft CC's and the need to have them in game, then by all means do so. But that is the problem behind Talons, not the skill itself, the skill is fine as it is. The implementation of CC in Elder Scrolls Online is what breaks the system behind Talons, as well as some other skills, such as Encase, or Eclipse.

Now, getting off topic of Talons and more on-topic of CC Immunity. If they ever decide to implement Soft CC Immunity into Elder Scrolls Online, the only way in which I would support it, is if the two CC Immunity timers are different, for example.

Dragonknight uses Talons and grants Soft CC Immunity to Targets A, B and C.

Dragonknight then Shield Charges Target B, and Target B is stunned, granting them Hard CC Immunity.

Meaning the two CC Immunity categories are on different clocks, if someone stuns you with Shield Charge, you're immune to Shield Charge for 6 seconds, but if they use Talons, it still locks you down for 4 seconds, unless you roll dodge out of it, and if you roll dodge out of it, or purge it, then you're granted Soft CC Immunity for 2 seconds. This is the only implementation of Soft CC Immunity I would support, and even then, I would have a hard time supporting it as it potentially breaks, or severely cripples most Dragonknight Melee specializations, and cripples other classes as well, it would also cause problems with Negate, as Negate is considered a Soft CC due to it's ability to Silence magical based abilities, but it's also classified as a Hard CC because you can CC break, and it stuns mobs.

So, now that I've said my piece, I hope you can understand that simply adding an Immunity Timer to Talons is not the way to go, as it only hurts Dragonknights and helps people that don't know how to play themselves while around a Dragonknight who uses Talons, and once again, I will post this quote because it does have relevance.

Thorjagger wrote: »

DK talon spam. Defining the difference between a good DK and a bad DK.

In practice, and in truth, only new DK players will spam Talons repeatedly, it's probably more prevalent in Thornblade than other campaigns, but I have seen it in both Haderus and Azura's Star, now why do I say this? Because a new Dragonknight, or a typical Thornblade Elite DK, will spam Talons solely for the purpose of generating Ultimate, since they can no longer do this in 1.6, the whole Talon spam, might not end, but it will slowly die down. Finally. Talons does not need a nerf, a re-balance, an Immunity Timer, Talons does not need a damage change, a Root change, or Soft CC Immunity, Talons is perfectly fine at is, and as much as I hate to say this, because it makes me look like a jerk-wad. L2P. Roll Dodge, Efficient Purge, back up, use Rapid Maneuvers. Just because you got killed once, because you didn't have the stamina to roll dodge, or the magicka to purge, or you stood there like an idiot and let the DK reapply Talons, and I assure you I HATE saying this. But L2P, learn to be wary of DKs period. Learn to counter enemy builds. And L2P.

For this post and this post alone @Cody will probably hate me now, but oh well. I stated fact.

Shadesofkin

Nerfing yet another skill of the Dragonknights isn't the way to go. Increasing any number of other skills or reducing costs of things like roll-dodge would benefit everyone, while nerfing Talons merely hurts DK's.

AhPook_Is_Here

david.haypreub18_ESO wrote: »

This has been a problem since day 1. The problem is that most characters will have to pay more resources to get out of Talons than the DK puts to get them into it. That is the definition of overpowered.

This really isn't true. Unstoppable will make you immune to an infinite number of talons and I suppose that makes unstoppable, by your definition, overpowered. I am just mentioning one rather low cost STA ability, I can think of another 4 ways around talons without using break free. You have templars there for a reason, you have break free, you have purge, you have streak, retreating maneuvers, and on and on and on.

This is a L2P issue, put some group utility on your bar when fighting a group.

Alphashado

Sigh. So Talons is the next FOTM witch hunt eh?

Then what after Talons? Because something will be next.

Talons is great in PvE and one of the skills that make the DK feel fun and unique. We have to stop nerfing class skills that effect PvE based on FOTM witch hunts from PvP.

By the way, is there something new in 1.6 that makes Talons more of an issue than it is on 1.5?

Why is this thread on the PTS forum?

Panda244

Alphashado wrote: »

Sigh. So Talons is the next FOTM witch hunt eh?

Then what after Talons? Because something will be next.

Talons is great in PvE and one of the skills that make the DK feel fun and unique. We have to stop nerfing class skills that effect PvE based on FOTM witch hunts from PvP.

By the way, is there something new in 1.6 that makes Talons more of an issue than it is on 1.5?

Why is this thread on the PTS forum?

I have no idea why it's on the PTS forum, but the issue of Talons is actually reduced in 1.6... So it's ironic, and silly, and stupid.

Cody

Panda244 wrote: »

As a friend of mine said in a different thread.

Thorjagger wrote: »

DK talon spam. Defining the difference between a good DK and a bad DK.

Now, let's do some CC math, related to ESO.

Hard CC = 6 Seconds of CC Immunity
Soft CC = No CC Immunity, Period.
Talons = Soft CC.

I have a few things to say regarding this topic.
First, L2P, Talons has counters. @Cody don't hate me for saying that, again.
Second, this issue is going to be relatively fixed in 1.6.
Third, if they ever implement Soft CC Immunity, then by all means, Talons will have an immunity timer, but that's not related to the skill, that's related to CC Immunity and the difference between Soft CC and Hard CC.
Fourth, and last, but definitely the best.

Now to be serious, Talons is not overpowered, the only people that die to Talons are people that have no more Stamina to roll out, don't have Purge slotted on their bars, or are on low Health and would've died no matter what. Talons is a Soft CC, and a Root, it does not fall under the same category as say, Wrecking Blow, which is a Hard CC, and a Stun. Soft CC's in Elder Scrolls Online do not have any CC Immunity, regardless of whether it is Root, Snare, or Disorient, however, if they ever decide to add Soft CC Immunity to the game, then by all means I will be inclined to agree with you, that said, Talons would need to be under that category and require CC Immunity. But. Currently, there is no Soft CC Immunity in the game, so Talons is perfectly fine as is, if you want to make a thread about Soft CC's and the need to have them in game, then by all means do so. But that is the problem behind Talons, not the skill itself, the skill is fine as it is. The implementation of CC in Elder Scrolls Online is what breaks the system behind Talons, as well as some other skills, such as Encase, or Eclipse.

Now, getting off topic of Talons and more on-topic of CC Immunity. If they ever decide to implement Soft CC Immunity into Elder Scrolls Online, the only way in which I would support it, is if the two CC Immunity timers are different, for example.

Dragonknight uses Talons and grants Soft CC Immunity to Targets A, B and C.

Dragonknight then Shield Charges Target B, and Target B is stunned, granting them Hard CC Immunity.

Meaning the two CC Immunity categories are on different clocks, if someone stuns you with Shield Charge, you're immune to Shield Charge for 6 seconds, but if they use Talons, it still locks you down for 4 seconds, unless you roll dodge out of it, and if you roll dodge out of it, or purge it, then you're granted Soft CC Immunity for 2 seconds. This is the only implementation of Soft CC Immunity I would support, and even then, I would have a hard time supporting it as it potentially breaks, or severely cripples most Dragonknight Melee specializations, and cripples other classes as well, it would also cause problems with Negate, as Negate is considered a Soft CC due to it's ability to Silence magical based abilities, but it's also classified as a Hard CC because you can CC break, and it stuns mobs.

So, now that I've said my piece, I hope you can understand that simply adding an Immunity Timer to Talons is not the way to go, as it only hurts Dragonknights and helps people that don't know how to play themselves while around a Dragonknight who uses Talons, and once again, I will post this quote because it does have relevance.

Thorjagger wrote: »

DK talon spam. Defining the difference between a good DK and a bad DK.

In practice, and in truth, only new DK players will spam Talons repeatedly, it's probably more prevalent in Thornblade than other campaigns, but I have seen it in both Haderus and Azura's Star, now why do I say this? Because a new Dragonknight, or a typical Thornblade Elite DK, will spam Talons solely for the purpose of generating Ultimate, since they can no longer do this in 1.6, the whole Talon spam, might not end, but it will slowly die down. Finally. Talons does not need a nerf, a re-balance, an Immunity Timer, Talons does not need a damage change, a Root change, or Soft CC Immunity, Talons is perfectly fine at is, and as much as I hate to say this, because it makes me look like a jerk-wad. L2P. Roll Dodge, Efficient Purge, back up, use Rapid Maneuvers. Just because you got killed once, because you didn't have the stamina to roll dodge, or the magicka to purge, or you stood there like an idiot and let the DK reapply Talons, and I assure you I HATE saying this. But L2P, learn to be wary of DKs period. Learn to counter enemy builds. And L2P.

For this post and this post alone @Cody will probably hate me now, but oh well. I stated fact.

I honestly did not even read your post, I just scrolled down until I saw my name mentioned.. I am calling it "AOE root spam" now, and have said i would shut up and see how it is in 1.6, which I will do.

In the meantime, I will continue to level up this DK I made and hope she is not too bad come Monday or whenever 1.6 realeses.

david.haypreub18_ESO

AhPook_Is_Here wrote: »

david.haypreub18_ESO wrote: »

This has been a problem since day 1. The problem is that most characters will have to pay more resources to get out of Talons than the DK puts to get them into it. That is the definition of overpowered.

This really isn't true. Unstoppable will make you immune to an infinite number of talons and I suppose that makes unstoppable, by your definition, overpowered.

Dude, Unstoppable doesn't do anything against Talons. Talons doesn't count as a 'disabling effect'.

That's kind of like, the entire problem, you know?

TheFormalGamer

Although I assume you are looking at this from a PvP perspective, I'm a PvE player, so I'll answer with what I know. In PvE, my DK is my favorite char I've made, because it allows me to solo most things in the world, but I've never felt like I've soloed a dungeon or a world boss or anything else JUST because DKs are OP. That said, I do use burning talons in big mob pulls and man is it a life saver however I have played a little PvP and I'm pretty sure that a blind man can see when a move is being spammed that much. So yeah, in PvP talons is annoying (but as a non-PvP player I think a lot of abilities are annoying) but I think it's fine for PvE.

Varicite

snipeopsub17_ESO wrote: »

The problem with talon is it can "interupt" a dodge roll if it spammed and perma root someone. It needs to trigger the 6 second cc immunity.

I thought this was fixed in 1.5 by adding temporary immunity to snares / roots during a dodge roll?

AhPook_Is_Here

david.haypreub18_ESO wrote: »

AhPook_Is_Here wrote: »

david.haypreub18_ESO wrote: »

This has been a problem since day 1. The problem is that most characters will have to pay more resources to get out of Talons than the DK puts to get them into it. That is the definition of overpowered.

This really isn't true. Unstoppable will make you immune to an infinite number of talons and I suppose that makes unstoppable, by your definition, overpowered.

Dude, Unstoppable doesn't do anything against Talons. Talons doesn't count as a 'disabling effect'.

That's kind of like, the entire problem, you know?

Ok, so minus unstoppable you only have half a dozen ways to avoid them including retreating maneuvers that gives you immunity. Like I said, if you play in a group use some group utility or have someone else use it. I do in the groups I play in. If you are a solo player and you run into a large group you are going to die with or without talons so I don't see any reason to further nerf it beyond the 4 or 5 nerfs it has had already.

Panda244

AhPook_Is_Here wrote: »

david.haypreub18_ESO wrote: »

AhPook_Is_Here wrote: »

david.haypreub18_ESO wrote: »

This has been a problem since day 1. The problem is that most characters will have to pay more resources to get out of Talons than the DK puts to get them into it. That is the definition of overpowered.

This really isn't true. Unstoppable will make you immune to an infinite number of talons and I suppose that makes unstoppable, by your definition, overpowered.

Dude, Unstoppable doesn't do anything against Talons. Talons doesn't count as a 'disabling effect'.

That's kind of like, the entire problem, you know?

Ok, so minus unstoppable you only have half a dozen ways to avoid them including retreating maneuvers that gives you immunity. Like I said, if you play in a group use some group utility or have someone else use it. I do in the groups I play in. If you are a solo player and you run into a large group you are going to die with or without talons so I don't see any reason to further nerf it beyond the 4 or 5 nerfs it has had already.

Talons and Dragon's Blood are the only thing's left that YOU CAN NERF for Dragonknight's and I won't have it...

[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Trolling]

Cody

Panda244 wrote: »

AhPook_Is_Here wrote: »

david.haypreub18_ESO wrote: »

AhPook_Is_Here wrote: »

david.haypreub18_ESO wrote: »

This has been a problem since day 1. The problem is that most characters will have to pay more resources to get out of Talons than the DK puts to get them into it. That is the definition of overpowered.

This really isn't true. Unstoppable will make you immune to an infinite number of talons and I suppose that makes unstoppable, by your definition, overpowered.

Dude, Unstoppable doesn't do anything against Talons. Talons doesn't count as a 'disabling effect'.

That's kind of like, the entire problem, you know?

Ok, so minus unstoppable you only have half a dozen ways to avoid them including retreating maneuvers that gives you immunity. Like I said, if you play in a group use some group utility or have someone else use it. I do in the groups I play in. If you are a solo player and you run into a large group you are going to die with or without talons so I don't see any reason to further nerf it beyond the 4 or 5 nerfs it has had already.

I see a reason. Complaining! Which isn't a reason, Talons and Dragon's Blood are the only thing's left that YOU CAN NERF for Dragonknight's and I won't have it... So please oh beloved Thread-Gods, close this thread!

who the heck wants dragon blood nerfed?

Panda244

Cody wrote: »

Panda244 wrote: »

AhPook_Is_Here wrote: »

david.haypreub18_ESO wrote: »

AhPook_Is_Here wrote: »

david.haypreub18_ESO wrote: »

This has been a problem since day 1. The problem is that most characters will have to pay more resources to get out of Talons than the DK puts to get them into it. That is the definition of overpowered.

This really isn't true. Unstoppable will make you immune to an infinite number of talons and I suppose that makes unstoppable, by your definition, overpowered.

Dude, Unstoppable doesn't do anything against Talons. Talons doesn't count as a 'disabling effect'.

That's kind of like, the entire problem, you know?

Ok, so minus unstoppable you only have half a dozen ways to avoid them including retreating maneuvers that gives you immunity. Like I said, if you play in a group use some group utility or have someone else use it. I do in the groups I play in. If you are a solo player and you run into a large group you are going to die with or without talons so I don't see any reason to further nerf it beyond the 4 or 5 nerfs it has had already.

I see a reason. Complaining! Which isn't a reason, Talons and Dragon's Blood are the only thing's left that YOU CAN NERF for Dragonknight's and I won't have it... So please oh beloved Thread-Gods, close this thread!

who the heck wants dragon blood nerfed?

Everyone that wants Talons nerfed, IF Talons gets nerfed.

Cody

Panda244 wrote: »

Cody wrote: »

Panda244 wrote: »

AhPook_Is_Here wrote: »

david.haypreub18_ESO wrote: »

AhPook_Is_Here wrote: »

david.haypreub18_ESO wrote: »

This has been a problem since day 1. The problem is that most characters will have to pay more resources to get out of Talons than the DK puts to get them into it. That is the definition of overpowered.

This really isn't true. Unstoppable will make you immune to an infinite number of talons and I suppose that makes unstoppable, by your definition, overpowered.

Dude, Unstoppable doesn't do anything against Talons. Talons doesn't count as a 'disabling effect'.

That's kind of like, the entire problem, you know?

Ok, so minus unstoppable you only have half a dozen ways to avoid them including retreating maneuvers that gives you immunity. Like I said, if you play in a group use some group utility or have someone else use it. I do in the groups I play in. If you are a solo player and you run into a large group you are going to die with or without talons so I don't see any reason to further nerf it beyond the 4 or 5 nerfs it has had already.

I see a reason. Complaining! Which isn't a reason, Talons and Dragon's Blood are the only thing's left that YOU CAN NERF for Dragonknight's and I won't have it... So please oh beloved Thread-Gods, close this thread!

who the heck wants dragon blood nerfed?

Everyone that wants Talons nerfed, IF Talons gets nerfed.

dragons blood does not need to be nerfed... its only worth using at low health:/

Panda244

Cody wrote: »

Panda244 wrote: »

Cody wrote: »

Panda244 wrote: »

AhPook_Is_Here wrote: »

david.haypreub18_ESO wrote: »

AhPook_Is_Here wrote: »

david.haypreub18_ESO wrote: »

This has been a problem since day 1. The problem is that most characters will have to pay more resources to get out of Talons than the DK puts to get them into it. That is the definition of overpowered.

This really isn't true. Unstoppable will make you immune to an infinite number of talons and I suppose that makes unstoppable, by your definition, overpowered.

Dude, Unstoppable doesn't do anything against Talons. Talons doesn't count as a 'disabling effect'.

That's kind of like, the entire problem, you know?

Ok, so minus unstoppable you only have half a dozen ways to avoid them including retreating maneuvers that gives you immunity. Like I said, if you play in a group use some group utility or have someone else use it. I do in the groups I play in. If you are a solo player and you run into a large group you are going to die with or without talons so I don't see any reason to further nerf it beyond the 4 or 5 nerfs it has had already.

I see a reason. Complaining! Which isn't a reason, Talons and Dragon's Blood are the only thing's left that YOU CAN NERF for Dragonknight's and I won't have it... So please oh beloved Thread-Gods, close this thread!

who the heck wants dragon blood nerfed?

Everyone that wants Talons nerfed, IF Talons gets nerfed.

dragons blood does not need to be nerfed... its only worth using at low health:/

I'm aware of this, but the general Nerf DKs! populace will need something to complain about after Talons gets nerfed, it won't be reflect, got nerfed, won't be any of the damage abilities, won't be Dragon Leap, got nerfed, won't be Standard, got nerfed, won't be Chains, got nerfed, won't be Igneous Shield, even though there are already threads on it, oh, and got nerfed. So that leaves Dragon's Blood, and waffles... Or a new class to QQ about.

madangrypally

Dont worry Panda244. DKs wont be the target much longer. Once this update goes live the new targets will be Templars.

A few nerfs to Templars and the FoM crowd will move to a new class and then the cry for nerfs to that class will begin.

Panda244

madangrypally wrote: »

Dont worry Panda244. DKs wont be the target much longer. Once this update goes live the new targets will be Templars.

A few nerfs to Templars and the FoM crowd will move to a new class and then the cry for nerfs to that class will begin.

I'm not really worried, if my DK ever gets curb stomped nerfed, I go back to sap tanking on my NB... They actually buffed my NB substantially in terms of Sap Tanking... So I might play with her more often now, I only rolled a DK because I wanted reflect....

rich.magab14a_ESO

This thread is ridiculous. This is a pts forum. If you actually played the pts you'd know DKs have been nerfed to oblivion. They are no longer OP. With the change to ultimate gain talon's has lost its real utility of being a quick way to gain ultimate. Talons dont kill people standards and bats do.Templar's will be the rage in 1.6. There really hasn't been a viable magika build for DKs and most will go medium armor and stamina in 1.6

david.haypreub18_ESO

AhPook_Is_Here wrote: »

david.haypreub18_ESO wrote: »

AhPook_Is_Here wrote: »

david.haypreub18_ESO wrote: »

This has been a problem since day 1. The problem is that most characters will have to pay more resources to get out of Talons than the DK puts to get them into it. That is the definition of overpowered.

This really isn't true. Unstoppable will make you immune to an infinite number of talons and I suppose that makes unstoppable, by your definition, overpowered.

Dude, Unstoppable doesn't do anything against Talons. Talons doesn't count as a 'disabling effect'.

That's kind of like, the entire problem, you know?

Ok, so minus unstoppable you only have half a dozen ways to avoid them including retreating maneuvers that gives you immunity. Like I said, if you play in a group use some group utility or have someone else use it. I do in the groups I play in. If you are a solo player and you run into a large group you are going to die with or without talons so I don't see any reason to further nerf it beyond the 4 or 5 nerfs it has had already.

What other counters?

The one you suggested, Unstoppable, does nothing. You seemed not to know that, so I am guessing you don't know what happens when you try to use the other counters too:

Retreating Maneuvers costs a ridiculous amount of resources and breaks when you attack. It might help you escape... it does nothing to help you win.

That's the whole problem. Nothing you do costs less resources than it takes the DK to cast Talons. And you're forced to constantly play defence, while the DK has to push a single button. This is the reason people say DKs are easier than the other classes to play.

kelly.medleyb14_ESO

Ahhh I remember when I was new and thought talons was good Many moons ago.

Cinbri

As templar who 98% of time in eso playing pvp i must say talons shouldn't be nerfed coz they are not that strong.

AhPook_Is_Here

david.haypreub18_ESO wrote: »

AhPook_Is_Here wrote: »

david.haypreub18_ESO wrote: »

AhPook_Is_Here wrote: »

david.haypreub18_ESO wrote: »

This has been a problem since day 1. The problem is that most characters will have to pay more resources to get out of Talons than the DK puts to get them into it. That is the definition of overpowered.

This really isn't true. Unstoppable will make you immune to an infinite number of talons and I suppose that makes unstoppable, by your definition, overpowered.

Dude, Unstoppable doesn't do anything against Talons. Talons doesn't count as a 'disabling effect'.

That's kind of like, the entire problem, you know?

Ok, so minus unstoppable you only have half a dozen ways to avoid them including retreating maneuvers that gives you immunity. Like I said, if you play in a group use some group utility or have someone else use it. I do in the groups I play in. If you are a solo player and you run into a large group you are going to die with or without talons so I don't see any reason to further nerf it beyond the 4 or 5 nerfs it has had already.

What other counters?

The one you suggested, Unstoppable, does nothing. You seemed not to know that, so I am guessing you don't know what happens when you try to use the other counters too:

Retreating Maneuvers costs a ridiculous amount of resources and breaks when you attack. It might help you escape... it does nothing to help you win.

That's the whole problem. Nothing you do costs less resources than it takes the DK to cast Talons. And you're forced to constantly play defence, while the DK has to push a single button. This is the reason people say DKs are easier than the other classes to play.

I'm really not sure what is so hard about using break free, purge, cleanse, retreating maneuvers, and then a bunch of class specific ones like shadow image? Is it really so hard to slot and use one of these abilities that it seems easier to lead some campaign of stupidity to nerf a class that has already been nerfed too much? Even if retreating maneuvers costs a lot you don't have to attack till your group is re positioned since your templars can keep you up.

Ffastyl

In 1.6 the now very cheap Forward Momentum from Two-Hand grants Snare/Root Immunity upon activation for 2 seconds, as does Shuffle, a morph of Evasion from the Medium Armor line.

ZOS has added new counters to Talons.
Until 1.6, dodge roll.

Orchish

Threads like this make me miss my lol button.

david.haypreub18_ESO

Ffastyl wrote: »

In 1.6 the now very cheap Forward Momentum from Two-Hand grants Snare/Root Immunity upon activation for 2 seconds, as does Shuffle, a morph of Evasion from the Medium Armor line.

ZOS has added new counters to Talons.
Until 1.6, dodge roll.

For a whole 2 seconds?

lowf

Welcome to "ESO OP - PvP edition - volume 1"

DK OP - 3 DKs spamming talons kills me - pls nerf

Sorc OP - 3 Sorcs streaking and using Mages' Wrath kill me - pls nerf

Templar OP - It's so hard to kill v14s running Blazing Shield - pls nerf

Nightblade OP - Impale too powerful - pls nerf

Vampire OP - Batswarm kills me even when I'm 1000 meters away - pls nerf

Bow OP - 3 simultaneous snipes kill me - pls nerf

Destro Staff OP - If I stand in fire walls I die - pls nerf

Soul Strike OP - It hurts - pls nerf

Horses OP - When I get knocked off my horse I can't do anything for a few seconds - pls nerf

Other players OP - They kill me - pls nerf

I think DKs should have access to Nightblade skill lines, Nightblades should have access to Templar skill lines, Templars should have access to Sorc skill lines, and Sorcs should have access to DK skills.

david.haypreub18_ESO

So nothing is ever overpowered?