Talons - Should Be Nerfed

SanderBuraas

As we all probably can agree on, the Dragonknight skill Talons is one of the more overpowered skills in the game. The fact that it is not affected by cc-immunity and does not grant you cc-immunity when you roll dodge out of it is plain stupidity. This skill is able to lock down down enemies in an aoe range, providing either a dot effect or reduced damage done, and with the combination of a gap closer and Talons, it is almost impossible for the target to break free.

I don't think it's fair that an ability is able to permanently lock down an enemy with such ease. Thoughts?

pppontus

It's like one dodge then you're out of range? I don't ever play my DK in PvP, I've never experienced Talons to be much of a problem. I just roll out. ^^

sarttsarttsarttub17_ESO

Smepic wrote: »

As we all probably can agree on, the Dragonknight skill Talons is one of the more overpowered skills in the game. The fact that it is not affected by cc-immunity and does not grant you cc-immunity when you roll dodge out of it is plain stupidity. This skill is able to lock down down enemies in an aoe range, providing either a dot effect or reduced damage done, and with the combination of a gap closer and Talons, it is almost impossible for the target to break free.

I don't think it's fair that an ability is able to permanently lock down an enemy with such ease. Thoughts?

bro everyone knows this, the devs know this, they do nothing. Talons have been OP since day 1 and if you get 3 dragonknights in a group spamming it they can kill everyone.

Kuro1n

Never had issues with this ***, just rolled out and ran away pretty much. I assume it would be annoying if you have no ranged damage though.

nikolaj.lemcheb16_ESO

Problem is when you have 3 DKs that use it, before you have rolled out of the first the 2nd has landed and locks you in place and it will keep on that way preventing you from ever getting free.

EnOeZ

Smepic wrote: »

As we all probably can agree on, the Dragonknight skill Talons is one of the more overpowered skills in the game. The fact that it is not affected by cc-immunity and does not grant you cc-immunity when you roll dodge out of it is plain stupidity. This skill is able to lock down down enemies in an aoe range, providing either a dot effect or reduced damage done, and with the combination of a gap closer and Talons, it is almost impossible for the target to break free.

I don't think it's fair that an ability is able to permanently lock down an enemy with such ease. Thoughts?

Talon is nice, useful, powerful (especially with its initial range (at launch)), iconic.
It is not "that" powerful IF ZOS decides do bring in Root Immunity the way they do for hard CCs.

Otherwise, I do agree with you, it is a spammable hardcounter to full melee playstyle, especially melee heavy armor wearers who are stamina-starved, since everything they can do is stamina based and require melee range and they have no resource management from their armor to meet the position requirement for their skills nor stamina available to chain roll out roots.

Even if it is not that used Bow "Bombard" is also a killer spammable counter-free chain root ability to full melee weapons heavy armor users.

And I don't think (who does ?) it is a good game mechanic design.

dharbert

L2P. You can still move and cast while in talons. DK's have already been nerfed to hell and back with 1.6

Kahrgan

pppontus wrote: »

It's like one dodge then you're out of range? I don't ever play my DK in PvP, I've never experienced Talons to be much of a problem. I just roll out. ^^

Talonbots? rollout!

SoulScream

I foresee stuck in place console players throwing their controllers lol

EnOeZ

dharbert wrote: »

L2P. You can still move and cast while in talons. DK's have already been nerfed to hell and back with 1.6

_ You cannot cast in Talons if you are melee (expect if target is also in melee range and/or as not moved back)
_ You can move one, twice not more if you are heavy armor cause you will have no stamina left with the no-regen armor in an handful of seconds since you will have all your stamina used to charge in and hopefully perform a non-defensive maneuver or two.

I thought it would have been easy to understand, since I am talking about meleers... sorry about that Einstein.

And I am a DK and I think that is the choice of non-CC immunity to roots that is problematic but with the current game mechanics (1.5.x) IT IS overpowered.

Durham

Honestly the Dragon Knight is actually a Dragon Mage in this game .. Talon AOE high damage root sounds like a mage ability...Very disappointed in the direction of this class over the course of this year...

Vis

As a sorc, I am against any nerfs for any of my brothers in other classes.

[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Inappropriate Content]

Sharkano

This skill has been nerfed into the dust. The damage is minimal now, and cost is high. Stop whining.

Rydik

L2P is answer for this thread...

rophez_ESO

Since they took away the LOL button - can we please get a disagree button? I don't want to have to post a response to every bad idea on the forums. I'd just like to click a button. Maybe I'm lazy?

On topic: Talons are fine. DKs have been nerfed a lot - you'll start to notice when 90% of the population is a shield stacking sorc or templar after 1.6.

Armitas

Please, just stop with the DK nerfs. Seriously getting ridiculous.

FYI this skill is what is keeping mobs off you in PvE and Players off of you and your healers in PvP.

Kuro1n

Well honestly the reason people consider DKs to be so damn strong is because of how they had reflective scales for long range and talons, batswarm and such for close and it would be really hard to fight them then. No idea how this is working out now in a 1v1 situation. I mean 1vX they should be getting wrecked by ranged classes.

SanderBuraas

Kuro1n wrote: »

Well honestly the reason people consider DKs to be so damn strong is because of how they had reflective scales for long range and talons, batswarm and such for close and it would be really hard to fight them then. No idea how this is working out now in a 1v1 situation. I mean 1vX they should be getting wrecked by ranged classes.

I suppose part of the problem with constant Talon lock-down is how they were block-casting. Hopefully this will not be possible in 1.6.

Francescolg

The problem is not Talons itself but players spamming it over and over up to 5+ times in a row. ROLL OUT will not help if Talons is being spammed more than 2/3 times.

I wrote it here and I'll write it everywhere: PvP has become boring cause every larger fight is strategically dominated by the "doorkeepers" of ESO, namely DKs. Now, it is too late to change everything. You still will have to kill the DK first, or at least you'll have everybody stopped by him. Doorkeepers everywhere, I mean strong Firemage-Doorkeepers in heavy armor everywhere.. The changes to batman aren't enough, cause they still will spam Talons + Batman, while the CP-system (+ removal of soft caps) will make them even harder. But who cares? The devs apparently don't..


My personal opinion: The MAIN PROBLEM is that Eric Wrobel and some other guys from "The DEV Club" are not willed to change the basic combat system, that states: ROOT and SLOW effects are a very special type of CC which stand beside other forms of CC. THIS IS THE ERROR...! They want to keep the game more like a "jump'n run" (ROLL and BLOCK - and no other playstyle..), this very special "ESO-way"-philosophy is sturdy like a D..y and no one is willed to change it..

MANY other game's Devs did MUCH better and recognized ROOT as a "more serious CC". In this game, being stuck to the ground, while still being able to cast, is not seriously considered as CC,...
.
PLEASE stop writing about it and learn to live with it because the before mentioned "Dev Club" is not willed to do anything for you. Quit the game, or do sth. else. THIS has been critisized since June last year and NOTHING will change. This is how this game looks and they won't change a... !

The only thing that works is "Rapid Maneuvre" and to play a "zerg train", where people have to act like robots and follow the rabbit. So Burning Talons even facilitates the formation of Zerg-Trains, one of many factors..




[Moderator Note: Removed response to moderated content]

david.haypreub18_ESO

This has been a problem since day 1. The problem is that most characters will have to pay more resources to get out of Talons than the DK puts to get them into it. That is the definition of overpowered.

Unless you're in medium armor, you are going to be paying more resources to get out of Talons (at least more of precious stamina) than it takes the DK to cast the spell. Also, since it doesn't need to be targeted and can be spammed, it is not exactly an 'I Win' button, but it is an 'I pull ahead in the resource race that is combat without even looking' button. Most players-- even some DK players, as we've seen in this thread-- realize this is a problem. It is one of the main reasons why people say DKs are 'easier' to play than other classes. The developers for some reason remain obstinate on this one, and it does hurt PvP.

Combine Talons, the answer to melee threats, with Scales, the answer to ranged threats, and you have a two-button, no-target, spammable answer to most threats in the game. I think most people would recognize that that is OP.

When I play my Templar, I need to devote an entire bar set to fight DKs. When I play my Sorceror, I need to devote an entire bar to fighting DKs. When I play my Nightblade, I need to devote an entire bar to fighting DKs. No other class needs that. The reason is Talons, in combination with Scales.

We'll see what happens with the Scales nerf in 1.6, but I doubt it will make much difference. It certainly won't make a difference in 1v1 duels. But we'll see.

If they just put soft CC on the same timers as hard CC, I would have no problems. Until then, something still does need to be done about Talons.

ToRelax

Why is that coming from a Sorcerer? Are you aware that you can Bolt Escape with the Talons?
You can also use Mines or Encase (heard it's fixed in 1.63 and it's cost is already reduced) to keep them at bay.

[Moderator Note: Removed response to moderated content]

SanderBuraas

ToRelax wrote: »

Why is that coming from a Sorcerer? Are you aware that you can Bolt Escape with the Talons?
You can also use Mines or Encase (heard it's fixed in 1.63 and it's cost is already reduced) to keep them at bay.

Here's a thing: I don't play as a magicka Sorcerer. I have to use my stamina to roll out of the Talons, for then to be rooted again after the Dragonknight simply closes the gap with Invasion. I have Bolt Escape, but if I use it two times I'm out of magicka.

There should be a light cc immunity that lasts for a shorter period of time after breaking free from roots. Anyway, as stated before, the bigger problem is block-casting - which renders the target of the root useless.

[Moderator Note: Edited quote to match moderated version]

Potenza

SoulScream wrote: »

I foresee stuck in place console players throwing their controllers lol

I think console players are not going to even bother trying to deal with this kind of crap. They will just move on to another game - click NEXT!

Rydik

Ehh, this boring whining, first sorcs, now this... Go to PTS, there you will find out that DK not OP now, so just stop this "i have beaten by imba talons, om my god, its OP!!!!" crap.

Potenza

Rydik wrote: »

Ehh, this boring talking... Go to PTS, there you will find out that DK not op now, so just stop this "i have beaten by imba talons, om my god, its op!!!!" crap.

What exactly did they nerf on the DK's that makes them not OP now?

Armitas

When is it okay for talons to root someone?

ToRelax

Smepic wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

Bring LOL back!

On a less important note, why is that coming from a Sorcerer? Are you aware that you can Bolt Escape with the Talons?
You can also use Mines or Encase (heard it's fixed in 1.63 and it's cost is already reduced) to keep them at bay.

Here's a thing: I don't play as a magicka Sorcerer. I have to use my stamina to roll out of the Talons, for then to be rooted again after the Dragonknight simply closes the gap with Invasion. I have Bolt Escape, but if I use it two times I'm out of magicka.

There should be a light cc immunity that lasts for a shorter period of time after breaking free from roots. Anyway, as stated before, the bigger problem is block-casting - which renders the target of the root useless.

If you want to suggest a soft cc immunity create a thread about soft cc immunity, not op talons.

Stamina Sorc is not very strong, neither on Live nor on PTS. However, it's stronger on PTS if you use 2 hand. Dual Wield will be weaker though. In any way, you should rather complain that Stamina SOrc is to weak (valid point) than that Talons are op (nonsense).

MissBizz

I do not PvP but I can definitely see it as being an issue there... For PvE it is heaven sent. Maybe they should allow cc immunity afterwards, but I really think they should do the same as they did with shields... Make that ONLY in Cyrodiil.

Muizer

I think the main problem with the DK is that its abilities make sense for melee fighters, but become over-powered if you throw in things like batswarm or other powerful aoe. Basically what I see them do in PvP is block/reflect/absorb until they're ready for the next ultimate. I would have thought that the way ult generates in 1.6 would completely break that playstyle. Am I wrong?

ToRelax

Muizer wrote: »

I think the main problem with the DK is that its abilities make sense for melee fighters, but become over-powered if you throw in things like batswarm or other powerful aoe. Basically what I see them do in PvP is block/reflect/absorb until they're ready for the next ultimate. I would have thought that the way ult generates in 1.6 would completely break that playstyle. Am I wrong?

It pretty much does.

Beerbill

Just give Diminishing returns to stop the talons lock and grant roll immunity.