Talons - Should Be Nerfed

technohic

Panda244 wrote: »

technohic wrote: »

Panda244 wrote: »

Tankqull wrote: »

Seraphyel wrote: »

Panda244 wrote: »

Princess_Asgari wrote: »

Panda244 wrote: »

Talons isn't a CC ability, and therefor doesn't grant you CC immunity, there is nothing to balance here. If you want it to be balanced, then suggest lowering the damage? But having an ability that isn't a CC grant CC immunity is like... Breaking my brain, so please stop.

Encase is the exact same ability, and Sorcerers' have access to it, so if you get so upset about Talon spam, then you're lucky you've never met a Sword/Board Sorcerer that bolts in and encases everyone.

If all you people seriously won't stop complaining about Talons being overpowered, then there is a simple fix. Reduce the stamina cost of roll dodging out of roots by X. Then it doesn't matter how many times a Dragonknight spams Talons because you'll always have stamina to roll out of it, if this fix doesn't suit you. Then you're just asking another Dragonknight ability to be nerfed and not actually providing any structural criticism.

Also, stop asking for CC immunity from an ability that isn't a CC.... Roots do not grant CC immunity people, Talons is a Root, Encase is a Root, Crippling Grasp is a root, give Talons a CC immunity timer and then both these abilities require it as well, as well with the Fighter's Guild Trap ability that no one uses.

Using encase fails in 1.6 from either a bug or changed mechanic. It also doesn't prof crystal frags which it used to do. Unless the person is standing still you can almost never encase them. With talons they can be moving all around and get taloned.

It doesn't matter, they're essentially the same ability... So would you prefer Talons to be nerfed to the level of Encase, or Encase to be buffed to the level of Talons? They're both AoE roots, and Encase worked fine on my sorc... Given she's level 10.

How much damage Talons do? I think more than Encase. There's your difference. And Encase is in front of you, Talons are around you.

the main issue of encase is its aplicarion behaviour, its rolled out like a carpet wich adds a significant delay making everybody runing away from the caster impossible to be affected and player moving around quite likely to be missed. add that behaviour to talons and the dk uproar would be tremendous :P

DK uproar is going to be tremendous if they change Talons anyway.... To be quite honest, Talons is really no different than fear in some aspects, short range, 4 seconds, the only difference is fear is a Hard CC and Talons is not. Which means one grants immunity, and one doesn't. The simple fact of Talons is that it, again, is not, a hard, CC. And therefor does not grant immunity, so all these threads, would have so much more support from me, if Talons was a hard CC, it has counters, it's damage isn't inevitably going to murder you, so you can counter it, or stand in it for four seconds and wait it out.

I think most of the rage comes from people encountering bad DK players on Thornblade that just spam whatever people complain about on the forums, whether it be Talons or Impulse. They spam it, run with zergs, and think they're doing anything more than AP farming.

You probably are hitting the nail on the head here. When you get insta killed by a huge zerg, probably the first thing you will notice before dieing is being rooted by talons as you try to get away. Never mind that you were probably done for to begin with.

But it's really no different from fear, I mean if all the DKs in a zerg were replaced with Impulse and fear spamming NBs, you'd be just as screwed, if not more screwed, because fear snares and lowers your damage after you break out of it. All of the "These abilities are OP, please nerf!" threads are annoying and they've been here since launch. I made a post a couple days ago about Talons and why they should/shouldn't be nerfed, and there are a lot more reasons to NOT nerf them than to....

Yeah, I've only been heavy in AvA the past week so maybe that keeps me from worrying about it. I just assume that I am bad and leave it at that. I know its frustrating dealing with DKs because at range you get reflected and in melee its talons and bat swarm but I have been figuring it out little by little.

I guess the one thing that has really bothered me is when stunned or KDed and then taloned as it seems to make my weapon swap not work and there seems to be a hesitation in both the break free and the roll. Really has little to do with talons, though; and more to do with them allowing 2 forms of control to be applied at the same time.

Bouvin

Nerf Scrubs.

Oh wait, Talons is the scrubs nerf hahaha...

Panda244

technohic wrote: »

Panda244 wrote: »

technohic wrote: »

Panda244 wrote: »

Tankqull wrote: »

Seraphyel wrote: »

Panda244 wrote: »

Princess_Asgari wrote: »

Panda244 wrote: »

Talons isn't a CC ability, and therefor doesn't grant you CC immunity, there is nothing to balance here. If you want it to be balanced, then suggest lowering the damage? But having an ability that isn't a CC grant CC immunity is like... Breaking my brain, so please stop.

Encase is the exact same ability, and Sorcerers' have access to it, so if you get so upset about Talon spam, then you're lucky you've never met a Sword/Board Sorcerer that bolts in and encases everyone.

If all you people seriously won't stop complaining about Talons being overpowered, then there is a simple fix. Reduce the stamina cost of roll dodging out of roots by X. Then it doesn't matter how many times a Dragonknight spams Talons because you'll always have stamina to roll out of it, if this fix doesn't suit you. Then you're just asking another Dragonknight ability to be nerfed and not actually providing any structural criticism.

Also, stop asking for CC immunity from an ability that isn't a CC.... Roots do not grant CC immunity people, Talons is a Root, Encase is a Root, Crippling Grasp is a root, give Talons a CC immunity timer and then both these abilities require it as well, as well with the Fighter's Guild Trap ability that no one uses.

Using encase fails in 1.6 from either a bug or changed mechanic. It also doesn't prof crystal frags which it used to do. Unless the person is standing still you can almost never encase them. With talons they can be moving all around and get taloned.

It doesn't matter, they're essentially the same ability... So would you prefer Talons to be nerfed to the level of Encase, or Encase to be buffed to the level of Talons? They're both AoE roots, and Encase worked fine on my sorc... Given she's level 10.

How much damage Talons do? I think more than Encase. There's your difference. And Encase is in front of you, Talons are around you.

the main issue of encase is its aplicarion behaviour, its rolled out like a carpet wich adds a significant delay making everybody runing away from the caster impossible to be affected and player moving around quite likely to be missed. add that behaviour to talons and the dk uproar would be tremendous :P

DK uproar is going to be tremendous if they change Talons anyway.... To be quite honest, Talons is really no different than fear in some aspects, short range, 4 seconds, the only difference is fear is a Hard CC and Talons is not. Which means one grants immunity, and one doesn't. The simple fact of Talons is that it, again, is not, a hard, CC. And therefor does not grant immunity, so all these threads, would have so much more support from me, if Talons was a hard CC, it has counters, it's damage isn't inevitably going to murder you, so you can counter it, or stand in it for four seconds and wait it out.

I think most of the rage comes from people encountering bad DK players on Thornblade that just spam whatever people complain about on the forums, whether it be Talons or Impulse. They spam it, run with zergs, and think they're doing anything more than AP farming.

You probably are hitting the nail on the head here. When you get insta killed by a huge zerg, probably the first thing you will notice before dieing is being rooted by talons as you try to get away. Never mind that you were probably done for to begin with.

But it's really no different from fear, I mean if all the DKs in a zerg were replaced with Impulse and fear spamming NBs, you'd be just as screwed, if not more screwed, because fear snares and lowers your damage after you break out of it. All of the "These abilities are OP, please nerf!" threads are annoying and they've been here since launch. I made a post a couple days ago about Talons and why they should/shouldn't be nerfed, and there are a lot more reasons to NOT nerf them than to....

Yeah, I've only been heavy in AvA the past week so maybe that keeps me from worrying about it. I just assume that I am bad and leave it at that. I know its frustrating dealing with DKs because at range you get reflected and in melee its talons and bat swarm but I have been figuring it out little by little.

I guess the one thing that has really bothered me is when stunned or KDed and then taloned as it seems to make my weapon swap not work and there seems to be a hesitation in both the break free and the roll. Really has little to do with talons, though; and more to do with them allowing 2 forms of control to be applied at the same time.

Ah lol... I refuse to go vampire so bats isn't part of my rotation, I last longer than most DKs and only deal direct damage to low health targets when I know I can kill them.. I don't run into 20 people and spam AoEs and batswarm to get my AP, that's just the lowest form of low, and only bad players do it and call themselves elite.

Yuke

People dont understand that talons has to be spammed every ~4 seconds to be able to exploit flamelash.

Asgari

WebBull wrote: »

Princess_Asgari wrote: »

Talons does insane AoE dmg

Insane AoE damage? Compared to what? Caltrops? Where do you come up with this nonsense. Some of your posts are absolutely ridiculous.

Watch the videos in the YouTube link in my signature. Up until recently I started using my second bar. Before I'd just cast cinder storm and talons over and over in massive groups and was more than enough dps to kill players over n over. On top of multiple players being able to synergize for an additional 500. You say low damage but my talons between my damage and some one synergizing it can do 1k instant damage and then I can keep casting talons over and over.

glak

Princess_Asgari wrote: »

On my DK my main source of AoE dps in talons and cinder storm. Talons does insane AoE dmg and can reapplied over and over.

Will have to see how that works in 1.6 with the massive nerf to light armor's physical resistance.

glak

Princess_Asgari wrote: »

On my DK my main source of AoE dps in talons and cinder storm. Talons does insane AoE dmg and can reapplied over and over.

Will have to see how that works in 1.6 with the massive nerf to light armor's physical resistance.

Aaramis

A couple of quick comments:

1) enough with the DK nerf cries. The class has already been nerfed to the ground, and in 1.6 most classes are on even footing. There's no need to further nerf DKs. No, seriously. Wait until the rise of Templar and NBs in PvP/RvR show just how powerful those classes are - then people will be calling for nerfs to those classes, and, well, sooner or later nobody will play this game anymore because every class got nerfed and all the fun taken away.

2) the majority of whines on these forums are purely PvP / RvR based. Keep in mind that skills are also used in PvE - and nerfing things that are too powerful in PvP means that they become practically worthless in PvE. Talons is one of the DK tank's most amazing PvE abilities for CC / holding aggro. Please do not nerf this.

3) each class has unique abilities that make them a challenge. Whether this is Talons, Blazing Shield, Fear, etc., this is what makes each class UNIQUE. Removing these abilities and/or nerfing them to the ground suddenly removes the challenge of tackling different classes, and dumbs this game down even moreso than it already has been. So, again, please do not cave to the whining PvPers and destroy one of the few remaining unique DK abilities.

JLB

Princess_Asgari wrote: »

WebBull wrote: »

Princess_Asgari wrote: »

Talons does insane AoE dmg

Insane AoE damage? Compared to what? Caltrops? Where do you come up with this nonsense. Some of your posts are absolutely ridiculous.

Watch the videos in the YouTube link in my signature. Up until recently I started using my second bar. Before I'd just cast cinder storm and talons over and over in massive groups and was more than enough dps to kill players over n over. On top of multiple players being able to synergize for an additional 500. You say low damage but my talons between my damage and some one synergizing it can do 1k instant damage and then I can keep casting talons over and over.

Thanks @Princess_Asgari for being so honest. I wish there was more honest DK players like you not scared enough to say how stupidly over-tuned are some skills of the class, Talons included.

Asgari

JLB wrote: »

Princess_Asgari wrote: »

WebBull wrote: »

Princess_Asgari wrote: »

Talons does insane AoE dmg

Insane AoE damage? Compared to what? Caltrops? Where do you come up with this nonsense. Some of your posts are absolutely ridiculous.

Watch the videos in the YouTube link in my signature. Up until recently I started using my second bar. Before I'd just cast cinder storm and talons over and over in massive groups and was more than enough dps to kill players over n over. On top of multiple players being able to synergize for an additional 500. You say low damage but my talons between my damage and some one synergizing it can do 1k instant damage and then I can keep casting talons over and over.

Thanks @Princess_Asgari for being so honest. I wish there was more honest DK players like you not scared enough to say how stupidly over-tuned are some skills of the class, Talons included.

Looking at DKs from playing it the way I do and from my 2 alts perspective I would say talons is the only skill that needs to be adjusted. The rest seems balanced and other classes should just be brought up to par with DKs.

Panda244

JLB wrote: »

Thanks @Princess_Asgari for being so honest. I wish there was more honest DK players like you not scared enough to say how stupidly over-tuned are some skills of the class, Talons included.

Dragonknight:
Magma Shell, Dragon's Blood, Reflect, Dragon Leap (Due to exploiting issues), Obsidian Shield.

Nightblades:
Fear, Shades, Sap Essence, Veil of Blades.

Templars:
Puncturing Strikes, Blazing Shield, Blazing Spears, Breath of Life, Purifying Ritual.

Sorcerers:
Streak, Dark Exchange, Negate, Mage's Wrath, Conjured Ward.

I listed some skills that are unbalanced, HOWEVER the skills I listed are only unbalanced when used in certain situations. Streak for example, lets a Sorcerer run away from a fight easier than any other class. Reflect? Lets a Dragonknight ignore half the skills in this game. Mage's Wrath? Only really unbalanced if you're low on health because you can't block the execute phase of the ability and it deals extremely high damage. Fear? It's an stun that you can't block, or dodge, or reflect, and after it ends you're snared and your damage is reduced. Puncturing Strikes? High damage, permanent stun. (Fixed in 1.6) Breath of Life, while not always unbalanced, it can prevent you from killing a Templar in 1v1 because it's the single best heal in the game.

Talons? Is only ever unbalanced when you can get out of them, and Talons along with a mixture of other skills gets you killed. The ability itself isn't overpowered, the combination of it, and the general PvP meta is. Don't fix Talons because it's not broken, fix the game, because it's unbalanced. Like any MMO. Give it time and it'll be alright, but 1.6 already heavily nerfs DKs to be on par with other classes, to be honest, I think Nightblades and Templars will be the reign of terror in 1.6, just because the whole Sap Essence tank thing didn't get changed, so Nightblades will still be able to run into zergs and live while popping their ultimates every 30 or 40 seconds.

So hows that for honesty?

Asgari

Panda244 wrote: »

JLB wrote: »

Thanks @Princess_Asgari for being so honest. I wish there was more honest DK players like you not scared enough to say how stupidly over-tuned are some skills of the class, Talons included.

Dragonknight:
Magma Shell, Dragon's Blood, Reflect, Dragon Leap (Due to exploiting issues), Obsidian Shield.

Nightblades:
Fear, Shades, Sap Essence, Veil of Blades.

Templars:
Puncturing Strikes, Blazing Shield, Blazing Spears, Breath of Life, Purifying Ritual.

Sorcerers:
Streak, Dark Exchange, Negate, Mage's Wrath, Conjured Ward.

I listed some skills that are unbalanced, HOWEVER the skills I listed are only unbalanced when used in certain situations. Streak for example, lets a Sorcerer run away from a fight easier than any other class. Reflect? Lets a Dragonknight ignore half the skills in this game. Mage's Wrath? Only really unbalanced if you're low on health because you can't block the execute phase of the ability and it deals extremely high damage. Fear? It's an stun that you can't block, or dodge, or reflect, and after it ends you're snared and your damage is reduced. Puncturing Strikes? High damage, permanent stun. (Fixed in 1.6) Breath of Life, while not always unbalanced, it can prevent you from killing a Templar in 1v1 because it's the single best heal in the game.

Talons? Is only ever unbalanced when you can get out of them, and Talons along with a mixture of other skills gets you killed. The ability itself isn't overpowered, the combination of it, and the general PvP meta is. Don't fix Talons because it's not broken, fix the game, because it's unbalanced. Like any MMO. Give it time and it'll be alright, but 1.6 already heavily nerfs DKs to be on par with other classes, to be honest, I think Nightblades and Templars will be the reign of terror in 1.6, just because the whole Sap Essence tank thing didn't get changed, so Nightblades will still be able to run into zergs and live while popping their ultimates every 30 or 40 seconds.

So hows that for honesty?

Who uses magma shell in group pvp? Or shades in group pvp? Or dark exchange in group pvp? You are listing skills that are utterly useless in group play. Magma shell may be useful in 1.6 but those others are terrible for group play especially dark exchange. Yes, let me drain stamina for health and magicka so I can be cc in talons or feared or biting jabbed to death and can't cc break from having no stamina.

Please don't make up random arguments. I play the most aggressive DK build and in a mere 26 days of play time have completed the 100,000,000 damage dealer achievement in Cyrodiil. Do you think a Templar or sorc or NB could do that?

Bouvin

Panda244 wrote: »

JLB wrote: »

Thanks @Princess_Asgari for being so honest. I wish there was more honest DK players like you not scared enough to say how stupidly over-tuned are some skills of the class, Talons included.

Dragonknight:
Magma Shell, Dragon's Blood, Reflect, Dragon Leap (Due to exploiting issues), Obsidian Shield.

Nightblades:
Fear, Shades, Sap Essence, Veil of Blades.

Templars:
Puncturing Strikes, Blazing Shield, Blazing Spears, Breath of Life, Purifying Ritual.

Sorcerers:
Streak, Dark Exchange, Negate, Mage's Wrath, Conjured Ward.

I listed some skills that are unbalanced, HOWEVER the skills I listed are only unbalanced when used in certain situations. Streak for example, lets a Sorcerer run away from a fight easier than any other class. Reflect? Lets a Dragonknight ignore half the skills in this game. Mage's Wrath? Only really unbalanced if you're low on health because you can't block the execute phase of the ability and it deals extremely high damage. Fear? It's an stun that you can't block, or dodge, or reflect, and after it ends you're snared and your damage is reduced. Puncturing Strikes? High damage, permanent stun. (Fixed in 1.6) Breath of Life, while not always unbalanced, it can prevent you from killing a Templar in 1v1 because it's the single best heal in the game.

Talons? Is only ever unbalanced when you can get out of them, and Talons along with a mixture of other skills gets you killed. The ability itself isn't overpowered, the combination of it, and the general PvP meta is. Don't fix Talons because it's not broken, fix the game, because it's unbalanced. Like any MMO. Give it time and it'll be alright, but 1.6 already heavily nerfs DKs to be on par with other classes, to be honest, I think Nightblades and Templars will be the reign of terror in 1.6, just because the whole Sap Essence tank thing didn't get changed, so Nightblades will still be able to run into zergs and live while popping their ultimates every 30 or 40 seconds.

So hows that for honesty?

I notice NB has the least items on the list

Panda244

Princess_Asgari wrote: »

Panda244 wrote: »

JLB wrote: »

Thanks @Princess_Asgari for being so honest. I wish there was more honest DK players like you not scared enough to say how stupidly over-tuned are some skills of the class, Talons included.

Dragonknight:
Magma Shell, Dragon's Blood, Reflect, Dragon Leap (Due to exploiting issues), Obsidian Shield.

Nightblades:
Fear, Shades, Sap Essence, Veil of Blades.

Templars:
Puncturing Strikes, Blazing Shield, Blazing Spears, Breath of Life, Purifying Ritual.

Sorcerers:
Streak, Dark Exchange, Negate, Mage's Wrath, Conjured Ward.

I listed some skills that are unbalanced, HOWEVER the skills I listed are only unbalanced when used in certain situations. Streak for example, lets a Sorcerer run away from a fight easier than any other class. Reflect? Lets a Dragonknight ignore half the skills in this game. Mage's Wrath? Only really unbalanced if you're low on health because you can't block the execute phase of the ability and it deals extremely high damage. Fear? It's an stun that you can't block, or dodge, or reflect, and after it ends you're snared and your damage is reduced. Puncturing Strikes? High damage, permanent stun. (Fixed in 1.6) Breath of Life, while not always unbalanced, it can prevent you from killing a Templar in 1v1 because it's the single best heal in the game.

Talons? Is only ever unbalanced when you can get out of them, and Talons along with a mixture of other skills gets you killed. The ability itself isn't overpowered, the combination of it, and the general PvP meta is. Don't fix Talons because it's not broken, fix the game, because it's unbalanced. Like any MMO. Give it time and it'll be alright, but 1.6 already heavily nerfs DKs to be on par with other classes, to be honest, I think Nightblades and Templars will be the reign of terror in 1.6, just because the whole Sap Essence tank thing didn't get changed, so Nightblades will still be able to run into zergs and live while popping their ultimates every 30 or 40 seconds.

So hows that for honesty?

Who uses magma shell in group pvp? Or shades in group pvp? Or dark exchange in group pvp? You are listing skills that are utterly useless in group play. Magma shell may be useful in 1.6 but those others are terrible for group play especially dark exchange. Yes, let me drain stamina for health and magicka so I can be cc in talons or feared or biting jabbed to death and can't cc break from having no stamina.

Please don't make up random arguments. I play the most aggressive DK build and in a mere 26 days of play time have completed the 100,000,000 damage dealer achievement in Cyrodiil. Do you think a Templar or sorc or NB could do that?

I said I listed skills that are potentially unbalanced in certain situations, Talons is one of those skills, it's not blatantly OP all the time. Any skill can be OP if you're stuck in a certain situation, that's what I'm trying to say... Talons is only OP during certain scenarios in PvP. I'm not going to argue at this point, I will say this though.. Magma Shell can be incredibly useful in group PvP, and you'll probably see more people running it in 1.6. Unless you mean zerg PvP, then no, it's completely useless.

A Templar probably can't but I bet you ten bucks a nightblade could do it.. Sap Essence deals 250-350 damage, spam that and veil of blades over and over and over in zerg combat and you have better survability than a DK, and due to that, more damage output, just no -40% heal debuff so you're never going to kill anything.

[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Rude and Insulting comments]

Panda244

Bouvin wrote: »

Panda244 wrote: »

JLB wrote: »

Thanks @Princess_Asgari for being so honest. I wish there was more honest DK players like you not scared enough to say how stupidly over-tuned are some skills of the class, Talons included.

Dragonknight:
Magma Shell, Dragon's Blood, Reflect, Dragon Leap (Due to exploiting issues), Obsidian Shield.

Nightblades:
Fear, Shades, Sap Essence, Veil of Blades.

Templars:
Puncturing Strikes, Blazing Shield, Blazing Spears, Breath of Life, Purifying Ritual.

Sorcerers:
Streak, Dark Exchange, Negate, Mage's Wrath, Conjured Ward.

I listed some skills that are unbalanced, HOWEVER the skills I listed are only unbalanced when used in certain situations. Streak for example, lets a Sorcerer run away from a fight easier than any other class. Reflect? Lets a Dragonknight ignore half the skills in this game. Mage's Wrath? Only really unbalanced if you're low on health because you can't block the execute phase of the ability and it deals extremely high damage. Fear? It's an stun that you can't block, or dodge, or reflect, and after it ends you're snared and your damage is reduced. Puncturing Strikes? High damage, permanent stun. (Fixed in 1.6) Breath of Life, while not always unbalanced, it can prevent you from killing a Templar in 1v1 because it's the single best heal in the game.

Talons? Is only ever unbalanced when you can get out of them, and Talons along with a mixture of other skills gets you killed. The ability itself isn't overpowered, the combination of it, and the general PvP meta is. Don't fix Talons because it's not broken, fix the game, because it's unbalanced. Like any MMO. Give it time and it'll be alright, but 1.6 already heavily nerfs DKs to be on par with other classes, to be honest, I think Nightblades and Templars will be the reign of terror in 1.6, just because the whole Sap Essence tank thing didn't get changed, so Nightblades will still be able to run into zergs and live while popping their ultimates every 30 or 40 seconds.

So hows that for honesty?

I notice NB has the least items on the list

My main is a NB, Fear is downright OP, Shades is downright OP in small scenarios.
Sap Essence + Veil of Blades lets you tank zergs for 60 seconds or more, and I love doing that.

Scotia

If Talons is on the ground, another one should not be allowed to cast till the the first one's duration is completed. No problem with Talons, but problem with multiple Talons that you dodge roll one, you cant move out of another. And I am dodge rolling because I can hear the bats. Of course the negate is coming too... so its part of a bigger problem.


I would wait on any nerfs till 1.6 is live and feedback from many sample pops can be looked at. Once you take it way it wont come back so wait till 1.6 live.

Rydik

5 pages of whining on PTS forum about problems, that not exist in 1.6 anymore, and most fun of this, that most part of whiners not even testing anything on PTS and continue to cry about "ghosts of the past", just stupid...
Ahh, forgot, L2P, really, some of arguments incredibly noobish...

Tankqull

Rydik wrote: »

5 pages of whining on PTS forum about problems, that not exist in 1.6 anymore, and most fun of this, that most part of whiners not even testing anything on PTS and continue to cry about "ghosts of the past", just stupid...
Ahh, forgot, L2P, really, some of arguments incredibly noobish...

well thats not true - its just pushed back to hihger CP values within 6 months its startiing to be an issue again after 1.6 as you´ll need a certain threshhold of CPs to play that way again.

JLB

Panda244 wrote: »

Dragonknight:
Magma Shell, Dragon's Blood, Reflect, Dragon Leap (Due to exploiting issues), Obsidian Shield.

Nightblades:
Fear, Shades, Sap Essence, Veil of Blades.

Templars:
Puncturing Strikes, Blazing Shield, Blazing Spears, Breath of Life, Purifying Ritual.

Sorcerers:
Streak, Dark Exchange, Negate, Mage's Wrath, Conjured Ward.

So hows that for honesty?

Pretty bad, actually. Thanks for proving my point though.

Lhorion

Sure... Nerf Talons. It makes no sense because this thread should be called "Nerf root", but let us forget the other root options, let us come together and cry: Nerf DK please!

Aldarenn

DKs can't ulti-spam, bat swarm about useless in PvP, and Standard costs increased along with useless stamina morphs that require us to change our builds a bit.

At least let DKs keep their uniqueness to have talons like how Sorcs have streak and Templars with blazing shield. The damage is blockable from Talons. No need to screw around with the ability anymore.

Panda244

JLB wrote: »

Panda244 wrote: »

Dragonknight:
Magma Shell, Dragon's Blood, Reflect, Dragon Leap (Due to exploiting issues), Obsidian Shield.

Nightblades:
Fear, Shades, Sap Essence, Veil of Blades.

Templars:
Puncturing Strikes, Blazing Shield, Blazing Spears, Breath of Life, Purifying Ritual.

Sorcerers:
Streak, Dark Exchange, Negate, Mage's Wrath, Conjured Ward.

So hows that for honesty?

Pretty bad, actually. Thanks for proving my point though.

Mmm... I play a DK and a NB so I listed abilities I know can be somewhat OP, the other two classes I just made educated guesses on. If that isn't honest, then I don't know what is... Maybe Zenimax can teach you?

Nijjion

If you're QQing about Talons you also need to add restraining prism, that has a root.

Though if you cannot roll dodge there's not much Zeni can do.... they have already nerfed Talons 3 times. It doesn't need any more.

Everyone has OP/borderline OP stuff. Talons is borderline but no way needs to be changed at the moment.

Iyas

This is a thread for 1.5. Definitely not for 1.6.

No sense in playing a magicka Dk anymore - > no talons spam!

Tankqull

Iyas wrote: »

This is a thread for 1.5. Definitely not for 1.6.

No sense in playing a magicka Dk anymore - > no talons spam!

you can still efficently spam talons with 5 meds thx to guardian and warlock sets ...

Panda244

Tankqull wrote: »

Iyas wrote: »

This is a thread for 1.5. Definitely not for 1.6.

No sense in playing a magicka Dk anymore - > no talons spam!

you can still efficently spam talons with 5 meds thx to guardian and warlock sets ...

So you're just going to assume every DK runs these sets and spams Talons?
Tips Fedora

And I'm out.

snipeopsub17_ESO

The problem with talon is it can "interupt" a dodge roll if it spammed and perma root someone. It needs to trigger the 6 second cc immunity.

Panda244

snipeopsub17_ESO wrote: »

The problem with talon is it can "interupt" a dodge roll if it spammed and perma root someone. It needs to trigger the 6 second cc immunity.

It's a not a CC, therefor, no immunity. Please, understand that.....

david.haypreub18_ESO

Panda244 wrote: »

And I'm out.

If only...

glak

snipeopsub17_ESO wrote: »

The problem with talon is it can "interupt" a dodge roll if it spammed and perma root someone. It needs to trigger the 6 second cc immunity.

The perma root is a bug. ZOS has some choices on how to workaround the bug if they can't fix it.