Talons - Should Be Nerfed

Rydik

j.murro2ub17_ESO wrote: »

Rydik wrote: »

Ehh, this boring talking... Go to PTS, there you will find out that DK not op now, so just stop this "i have beaten by imba talons, om my god, its op!!!!" crap.

What exactly did they nerf on the DK's that makes them not OP now?

Main thing is Banners, scales and ulti generation(with it battle roar), mountain blessing, Cinder Storm(bye bye 30% miss chance), whole resources scaling system is new, and many others things has changed, and not only for Dk but to everyone.
Whole game has changed, new times new rules.
And if someone still owned by talons, then Lol, L2P

Iyas

no one is playing magicka with 1.6 anymore. so no talons

[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Trolling & Baiting]

Asgari

1 DK spamming talons isn't an issue. The issue arises when multiple DKs are spamming talons. I do feel that rolling out of talons should give a CC immunity for 3 seconds max as it does do a fair amount of damage and stops you from moving around.

This is coming from the deadliest DK NA in PvP.

mrvbalc

in 1.6: Talons is OP needs to be nerfed
in 1.7: Dragonblood is OP (cause they healed for 33%) need to be nerfed
in 1.8: Flamelash is OP need to be nerfed
in 1.9: Firebreath is OP need to be nerfed

I have a better solution for this
Why dont we all ask Devs to remove DK class all-together, so that we can avoid this whiners always ending up whining about DK doing this, doing that need to nerf that, this

Yusuf

I only played my DK in pvp once until now but i'm playing a Sorcerer and a Nightblade.
Talons are not a problem at all, the range is incredibly small and (at least in 1.5) you should have enough stamina to cc-break and make a dodgeroll.
If you're still facing problems i recommend you the "Way of the Arena"-Set which reduced cc-break cost by 40% and maybe allocate an enchantment more into stamina, having just a 100 stamina more makes a big difference in pvp and you will notice it.

WebBull

Smepic wrote: »

As we all probably can agree on, the Dragonknight skill Talons is one of the more overpowered skills in the game. The fact that it is not affected by cc-immunity and does not grant you cc-immunity when you roll dodge out of it is plain stupidity. This skill is able to lock down down enemies in an aoe range, providing either a dot effect or reduced damage done, and with the combination of a gap closer and Talons, it is almost impossible for the target to break free.

I don't think it's fair that an ability is able to permanently lock down an enemy with such ease. Thoughts?

What does this have to do with PTS? Is it stronger than live? If not, stop whining.

NoRefunds

talons is not the only aoe immobilize in the game,there are others that are even better(encase,bombard), the main issue with talons imo is that it also deals high damage and the cost is a bit too low....BUT every class has some extremely overpowered skills, talons is not a lot stronger than sorc streak-nb fear or templar blazing shield, and in 1.6 it will be possible to roll dodge forever,so immobilize won't be a big deal like it is now

Armitas

mrvbalc wrote: »

in 1.6: Talons is OP needs to be nerfed
in 1.7: Dragonblood is OP (cause they healed for 33%) need to be nerfed
in 1.8: Flamelash is OP need to be nerfed
in 1.9: Firebreath is OP need to be nerfed

I have a better solution for this
Why dont we all ask Devs to remove DK class all-together, so that we can avoid this whiners always ending up whining about DK doing this, doing that need to nerf that, this

Sadly I have already heard "Flamelash is OP" and "GDB is OP" though I haven't heard "fire breath is OP" I have heard searing strike is. I have also heard cinderstorm is OP even though you can stand at the edge of it and hit anyone standing inside of it with melee and have 0 miss chance. The only way to make it stop is to delete the class, at this point, I am for that.

Joy_Division

Talons should not be considered a hard CC because the only thing you can't do is move. It's not that big of an inconvenience, certainly much less than being stunned, feared, or knocked down which makes you 100% vulnerable to what your opponent does next. A long time ago I watched a video from King Richard, a very good sorcerer player, who gave very good advice: you don't have to waste your stamina resource by breaking them, especially since you can do everything else just fine, i.e. attack and block. I only break talons if the DK drops a standard or there is another pressing reason to move. And, as much as I hate echoing the people who claim they can dodge most of the snipes fired at them, the only time I am re-taloned is if the DK expends time, resources and effort chasing after me (i.e. ignoring everyone else and using shield charge...which basically means I can't elude the DK even if you grant the CC immunity).

WebBull

Armitas wrote: »

mrvbalc wrote: »

in 1.6: Talons is OP needs to be nerfed
in 1.7: Dragonblood is OP (cause they healed for 33%) need to be nerfed
in 1.8: Flamelash is OP need to be nerfed
in 1.9: Firebreath is OP need to be nerfed

I have a better solution for this
Why dont we all ask Devs to remove DK class all-together, so that we can avoid this whiners always ending up whining about DK doing this, doing that need to nerf that, this

Sadly I have already heard "Flamelash is OP" and though I haven't heard "fire breath is OP" I have heard searing strike is. I have also heard cinderstorm is OP even though you can stand at the edge of it and hit anyone standing inside of it with melee and have 0 miss chance. The only way to make it stop is to delete the class, at this point, I am for that.

DK's should not be allowed to kill anyone. Even then there would still be whiners.

cschwingeb14_ESO

Talons in 1.6 compared to Enase is cheaper, covers almost 3x more area, does more damage unmorphed than Encases damage morph, and has a synergy. Encase lasts 2 seconds longer, which is very useful in pve

Armitas

NoRefunds wrote: »

the main issue with talons imo is that it also deals high damage and the cost is a bit too low....

How much is it's base cost and how much damage does it do?

Asgari

cschwingeb14_ESO wrote: »

Talons in 1.6 compared to Enase is cheaper, covers almost 3x more area, does more damage unmorphed than Encases damage morph, and has a synergy. Encase lasts 2 seconds longer, which is very useful in pve

Encase doesn't work like talons and can't be spammed. It's no where near as useful as talons in pvp.

david.haypreub18_ESO

Yusuf wrote: »

I only played my DK in pvp once until now but i'm playing a Sorcerer and a Nightblade.
Talons are not a problem at all, the range is incredibly small and (at least in 1.5) you should have enough stamina to cc-break and make a dodgeroll.
If you're still facing problems i recommend you the "Way of the Arena"-Set which reduced cc-break cost by 40% and maybe allocate an enchantment more into stamina, having just a 100 stamina more makes a big difference in pvp and you will notice it.

You can't CC break Talons. That's part of the problem: it doesn't obey CC rules because it is just a root, not a 'hard CC'.

Joy_Division

david.haypreub18_ESO wrote: »

Yusuf wrote: »

I only played my DK in pvp once until now but i'm playing a Sorcerer and a Nightblade.
Talons are not a problem at all, the range is incredibly small and (at least in 1.5) you should have enough stamina to cc-break and make a dodgeroll.
If you're still facing problems i recommend you the "Way of the Arena"-Set which reduced cc-break cost by 40% and maybe allocate an enchantment more into stamina, having just a 100 stamina more makes a big difference in pvp and you will notice it.

You can't CC break Talons. That's part of the problem: it doesn't obey CC rules because it is just a root, not a 'hard CC'.

Because it's not a "hard CC." You can still attack and defend yourself unlike getting feared, stunned, or knocked down.

david.haypreub18_ESO

Princess_Asgari wrote: »

1 DK spamming talons isn't an issue. The issue arises when multiple DKs are spamming talons. I do feel that rolling out of talons should give a CC immunity for 3 seconds max as it does do a fair amount of damage and stops you from moving around.

This is coming from the deadliest DK NA in PvP.

Props to a DK fair enough to admit that.

I will try to be as fair and balanced when people say Templar skills are OP. I will admit for example that Radiant Destruction needed the nerf it just got.

Father

Smepic wrote: »

As we all probably can agree on, the Dragonknight skill Talons is one of the more overpowered skills in the game. The fact that it is not affected by cc-immunity and does not grant you cc-immunity when you roll dodge out of it is plain stupidity. This skill is able to lock down down enemies in an aoe range, providing either a dot effect or reduced damage done, and with the combination of a gap closer and Talons, it is almost impossible for the target to break free.

I don't think it's fair that an ability is able to permanently lock down an enemy with such ease. Thoughts?

The dmg is so low I don't even bother to dodge it sometimes. I use dark cloak on my nb and the fire dot is gone :P

As for nerfing, I don't think DK needs more nerfs, right now on PTS it looks more balanced than ever.

You don't want to be rooted?? roll dodge, you lose lots of stamina ? spec some dodging passives in CS.

prototypefb

DKs god class in ESO, most Dk skills complement each other creating almost endless build options.
tanky with ability to sustain high damage+CC on opponent, no weaknesses. Crazy synergizing passives!
Talons is just tip of the iceberg....
best approach would be x2 cost on recast while effect is active, and not just for talons, for every skill in the game.

jopeymonster

david.haypreub18_ESO wrote: »

Princess_Asgari wrote: »

1 DK spamming talons isn't an issue. The issue arises when multiple DKs are spamming talons. I do feel that rolling out of talons should give a CC immunity for 3 seconds max as it does do a fair amount of damage and stops you from moving around.

This is coming from the deadliest DK NA in PvP.

Props to a DK fair enough to admit that.

I will try to be as fair and balanced when people say Templar skills are OP. I will admit for example that Radiant Destruction needed the nerf it just got.

Asgari is best DK, and is correct that the Talon alone isn't a problem, it's when 2 or more DKs spam it does it become an issue, but that's really any class skill (Templars do it with Shards).

prototypefb wrote: »

DKs god class in ESO, most Dk skills complement each other creating almost endless build options.
tanky with ability to sustain high damage+CC on opponent, no weaknesses. Crazy synergizing passives!
Talons is just tip of the iceberg....
best approach would be x2 cost on recast while effect is active, and not just for talons, for every skill in the game.

This is the root of all DK hate - class synergy. A DK can have just class skills on their bars and be competitive in PvP and PvE. Any other class would be gimped to high hell if they only used class skills. The problem is not DKs, it's every other class.

Solution: Delete all other classes. All current characters become DKs.

I'm going to go eat a sandwich now...

ZOS_UlyssesW

Hi there folks.

We know that people are adjusting to the lol button being removed with the overhaul, but we do ask that players refrain from posting "lol" and nothing more. We encourage you instead to engage in a more constructive way and either mention what humored you or what you disagree with about the person's post. We recommend heading over to our Community Vision and Increased Moderation thread to see more details. Thank you for your understanding.

Seraphyel

ZOS_UlyssesW wrote: »

Hi there folks.

We know that people are adjusting to the lol button being removed with the overhaul, but we do ask that players refrain from posting "lol" and nothing more. We encourage you instead to engage in a more constructive way and either mention what humored you or what you disagree with about the person's post. We recommend heading over to our Community Vision and Increased Moderation thread to see more details. Thank you for your understanding.

What about saying something about the OP instead of hijacking a thread and to be completely silent about OPs topic?

Panda244

Talons isn't a CC ability, and therefor doesn't grant you CC immunity, there is nothing to balance here. If you want it to be balanced, then suggest lowering the damage? But having an ability that isn't a CC grant CC immunity is like... Breaking my brain, so please stop.

Encase is the exact same ability, and Sorcerers' have access to it, so if you get so upset about Talon spam, then you're lucky you've never met a Sword/Board Sorcerer that bolts in and encases everyone.

If all you people seriously won't stop complaining about Talons being overpowered, then there is a simple fix. Reduce the stamina cost of roll dodging out of roots by X. Then it doesn't matter how many times a Dragonknight spams Talons because you'll always have stamina to roll out of it, if this fix doesn't suit you. Then you're just asking another Dragonknight ability to be nerfed and not actually providing any structural criticism.

Also, stop asking for CC immunity from an ability that isn't a CC.... Roots do not grant CC immunity people, Talons is a Root, Encase is a Root, Crippling Grasp is a root, give Talons a CC immunity timer and then both these abilities require it as well, as well with the Fighter's Guild Trap ability that no one uses.

Theegoliath

I play a dk, and agree with original poster. Talons should be added to the cc catagory along with the sorcs encase. Spamable cc should not be allowed.

Rooting is and always has been a for of crowd control. Talons is an aoe root. Talons should fall into the cc catagory along with encase...

Asgari

Panda244 wrote: »

Talons isn't a CC ability, and therefor doesn't grant you CC immunity, there is nothing to balance here. If you want it to be balanced, then suggest lowering the damage? But having an ability that isn't a CC grant CC immunity is like... Breaking my brain, so please stop.

Encase is the exact same ability, and Sorcerers' have access to it, so if you get so upset about Talon spam, then you're lucky you've never met a Sword/Board Sorcerer that bolts in and encases everyone.

If all you people seriously won't stop complaining about Talons being overpowered, then there is a simple fix. Reduce the stamina cost of roll dodging out of roots by X. Then it doesn't matter how many times a Dragonknight spams Talons because you'll always have stamina to roll out of it, if this fix doesn't suit you. Then you're just asking another Dragonknight ability to be nerfed and not actually providing any structural criticism.

Also, stop asking for CC immunity from an ability that isn't a CC.... Roots do not grant CC immunity people, Talons is a Root, Encase is a Root, Crippling Grasp is a root, give Talons a CC immunity timer and then both these abilities require it as well, as well with the Fighter's Guild Trap ability that no one uses.

Using encase fails in 1.6 from either a bug or changed mechanic. It also doesn't prof crystal frags which it used to do. Unless the person is standing still you can almost never encase them. With talons they can be moving all around and get taloned.

Panda244

Princess_Asgari wrote: »

Panda244 wrote: »

Talons isn't a CC ability, and therefor doesn't grant you CC immunity, there is nothing to balance here. If you want it to be balanced, then suggest lowering the damage? But having an ability that isn't a CC grant CC immunity is like... Breaking my brain, so please stop.

Encase is the exact same ability, and Sorcerers' have access to it, so if you get so upset about Talon spam, then you're lucky you've never met a Sword/Board Sorcerer that bolts in and encases everyone.

If all you people seriously won't stop complaining about Talons being overpowered, then there is a simple fix. Reduce the stamina cost of roll dodging out of roots by X. Then it doesn't matter how many times a Dragonknight spams Talons because you'll always have stamina to roll out of it, if this fix doesn't suit you. Then you're just asking another Dragonknight ability to be nerfed and not actually providing any structural criticism.

Also, stop asking for CC immunity from an ability that isn't a CC.... Roots do not grant CC immunity people, Talons is a Root, Encase is a Root, Crippling Grasp is a root, give Talons a CC immunity timer and then both these abilities require it as well, as well with the Fighter's Guild Trap ability that no one uses.

Using encase fails in 1.6 from either a bug or changed mechanic. It also doesn't prof crystal frags which it used to do. Unless the person is standing still you can almost never encase them. With talons they can be moving all around and get taloned.

It doesn't matter, they're essentially the same ability... So would you prefer Talons to be nerfed to the level of Encase, or Encase to be buffed to the level of Talons? They're both AoE roots, and Encase worked fine on my sorc... Given she's level 10.

timidobserver

I don't have an issue with talons. My only suggestion would be to provide similar skills to each of the classes. With the removal of blinding flashes and the bug fix on blazing spear, Templar for example, have no kind of control ability that is AoE.

ZOS_UlyssesW wrote: »

Hi there folks.

We know that people are adjusting to the lol button being removed with the overhaul, but we do ask that players refrain from posting "lol" and nothing more. We encourage you instead to engage in a more constructive way and either mention what humored you or what you disagree with about the person's post. We recommend heading over to our Community Vision and Increased Moderation thread to see more details. Thank you for your understanding.

Eh, some stuff you disagree with but it isn't worth the effort of actually typing a response. I liked using the LOL button for that.

WebBull

ZOS_UlyssesW wrote: »

Hi there folks.

We know that people are adjusting to the lol button being removed with the overhaul, but we do ask that players refrain from posting "lol" and nothing more. We encourage you instead to engage in a more constructive way and either mention what humored you or what you disagree with about the person's post. We recommend heading over to our Community Vision and Increased Moderation thread to see more details. Thank you for your understanding.

Well by removing the LOL button you folks created a situation you didn't want or need. You changed something that wasn't broken, for the worst.

What is truly shocking is the sensitivity towards something as silly as a disagree button or LOL button. Apparently no one at ESO has see any of the in game zone chats. Might want to focus there first before worrying about LOL.

jopeymonster

WebBull wrote: »

You changed something that wasn't broken, for the worst.

ZOS directive number 1

OtarTheMad

Talons is more annoying then OP in my opinion... I just dodge roll out. Never had an issue with them.

indigoblades

The only time talons kills me is if i am overun with enemys.... in which case some other spell would of killed me anyway.