Pictoral evidence of XP problem with 1.5

hammer_fella

3rdwardhobocub18_ESO wrote: »

Not speaking for him, but I skipped Cadwell's gold completely on an alt and grinded bosses in Craglorn from V5 to 11

Yes, of course, and I meant that as part of the 'killing things' option. But he is also apparently opposed to the notion of grinding too, so that was already understood as an insufficient solution to the problem that I still fail to understand.

diabeticDemon18

3rdwardhobocub18_ESO wrote: »

hammer_fella wrote: »

onlinegamer1 wrote: »

I am really getting sick of saying this. You are arguing against a point I am NOT making in this thread.

His post validates the problem, which is that players have NO OPTIONS on how to level up in VR content anymore. You MUST do 100% of every single thing on a map + grind mobs to level now. That's IT. There is NO other path.

His post PROVES that point.

Of course this isn't true, you can do any number of combinations of the things you mentioned (yes, some of which will include killing things GASP!) but there is no reason you couldn't rank up in a variety of ways. But please, clarify for us: what is the other path you keep talking about?

When has there ever been an other path and what was it? In what alternate universe were you ever able to gain a VR without doing the majority of the content in a zone and/or killing mobs? I am utterly confused at this point as to what you expect to see versus what is currently in operation.

Not speaking for him, but I skipped Cadwell's gold completely on an alt and grinded bosses in Craglorn from V5 to 11

And there's yet still nothing stopping you from doing that?

onlinegamer1

DenverRalphy wrote: »

You have a very skewed view of what Grinding Mobs actually means. Doing the quests, and killing monsters that cross your path along the way, is not the same thing as doing 100% of the content and grinding mobs.

Grinding insinuates you have to go out and kill every last monster you can possibly find, wait for them to respawn, kill them again, rinse, repeat.

Right, and as of right now, you have to to gain a VR rank. That's the problem.

FYI, just got some more data:
- Completing a Delve (not including the boss kill XP, just the 1-time reward (which turns the delve white on your map): 1011 xp (VR1 zone)
- World boss completion (again, the 1-time reward, not the kill xp): 910 xp

There are:
- 6 Group bosses per map
- 3 Dolmens per map
- 6 Delves per map
- 1 Public dungeon, 1 Group Dungeon

6 Bosses x 910 = 5460 xp
6 Delves x 1011 = 6066 xp
If dolmens are worth 1k each, thats 3000 more
If Public dungeon and Group are 225% bonus completions, thats 9k each, or 18k.

Total: 32,500, or 3.2% of your level.

From previous, we know that for Zone quests, we have 71 total.
66 minor quests = 49.5% of your level.
5 major quests = 8% of your level.
Total: 57.5% of your level from all zone quests.

57.5 + 3.2 = 60.7%.
Adding exploration does nothing to this number (its non-existent exp).
Adding chests is likewise irrelevant.
Lets round to 61% for chests and exploration because I'm nice.

That leaves 39% of your exp required to come from kills. You will NOT get 39% of your total exp from "incidental kills" (kills you get from completing all of the above things).

You will have to purposefully seek out and grind mobs to level.

Again, NO OPTIONS ANYMORE IS A BAD CHANGE TO THE GAME.

Rune_Relic

diabeticDemon18 wrote: »

onlinegamer1 wrote: »

murtrem_ESO wrote: »

I'm not a mathlete. I haven't checked how much xp what gives or how many of this I need to complete to get this % of my level. Instead, I decided to do the unthinkable and leave the forums to go level up a v2 alt. In every mmo including this one, I take the approach of killing everything in my path while I quest because why sneak past easy xp. I finished an entire zone, 100%, and then killed 3 mobs. Ding, v3. I didn't record it, I didn't keep track of every little thing. I just (gasp) left the damn forums and played the game. I'm happy with the rate of vet xp gained and I no longer care to read these whiny mathlete posts. Good day.

Thanks for providing more evidence to support the issue.

ZoS, can we get a response if having to do every single thing + grind mobs is now the ONLY way to level in VR content? What happened to "play how you want"?

... I think you missed the point of his response... he was saying that the speed is fine and he didn't have to especially grind any harder than normal to level up?

+2
All 3 zones I have done so far was 1 zone = 1 vet level (including all dolmens wbs all quests all shards delves). Nothing to see here...moving on.

spryler

"That leaves 39% of your exp required to come from kills. You will NOT get 39% of your total exp from "incidental kills" (kills you get from completing all of the above things)."

Yes you will. You list lots of numbers, but nothing that proves the above statement. Are you a NB that invis'd past all mobs to level up and now you're mad that you will have to do more work?

"You will have to purposefully seek out and grind mobs to level."

So your point is that we shouldn't have to kill anything to level up. This isn't Smurfs Online you know, killing things is pretty central to the entire game.

The patch notes make it clear that they were dropping the xp from bosses and increasing the xp from regular mob kills. This means you will have to kill more regular mobs than before the patch. You are taking that small change and magnifying it into - YOU HAVE TO GRIND. It's ridiculous, I'm starting to doubt you believe what you are saying. Are you just trolling?

Amsel_McKay

onlinegamer1 wrote: »

DenverRalphy wrote: »

You have a very skewed view of what Grinding Mobs actually means. Doing the quests, and killing monsters that cross your path along the way, is not the same thing as doing 100% of the content and grinding mobs.

Grinding insinuates you have to go out and kill every last monster you can possibly find, wait for them to respawn, kill them again, rinse, repeat.

Right, and as of right now, you have to to gain a VR rank. That's the problem.

FYI, just got some more data:
- Completing a Delve (not including the boss kill XP, just the 1-time reward (which turns the delve white on your map): 1011 xp (VR1 zone)
- World boss completion (again, the 1-time reward, not the kill xp): 910 xp

There are:
- 6 Group bosses per map
- 3 Dolmens per map
- 6 Delves per map
- 1 Public dungeon, 1 Group Dungeon

6 Bosses x 910 = 5460 xp
6 Delves x 1011 = 6066 xp
If dolmens are worth 1k each, thats 3000 more
If Public dungeon and Group are 225% bonus completions, thats 9k each, or 18k.

Total: 32,500, or 3.2% of your level.

From previous, we know that for Zone quests, we have 71 total.
66 minor quests = 49.5% of your level.
5 major quests = 8% of your level.
Total: 57.5% of your level from all zone quests.

57.5 + 3.2 = 60.7%.
Adding exploration does nothing to this number (its non-existent exp).
Adding chests is likewise irrelevant.
Lets round to 61% for chests and exploration because I'm nice.

That leaves 39% of your exp required to come from kills. You will NOT get 39% of your total exp from "incidental kills" (kills you get from completing all of the above things).

You will have to purposefully seek out and grind mobs to level.

Again, NO OPTIONS ANYMORE IS A BAD CHANGE TO THE GAME.

"You will NOT get 39% of your total exp from "incidental kills" (kills you get from completing all of the above things)." While I have found that this is a very true statement I also think that you will get a percentage of this final 39%... It seems that right now (I leveled VR2-3) last night that I was 15% or so short after finishing all of the solo content in the VR2 zone...

Its close that content matches the levels at the moment, if I was a PVP or group player I'm quite sure I could easily level 1 VR per zone.

(So I grinded the last 15% by going through the Delves and picking resources off the ground) - its not "BAD" its getting REAL close to feeling right... but VR10-14 is going to be a problem for players like me

Xjcon

All this time trying to show that you may or may not level slightly slower.... DEAL with it as everyone is in the same boat. The hours you spent writing, venting, and not playing are your own xp nerf.......

chipputer

During the brief period where the rank ups required ~1.4m and everyone was saying it wasn't worth it to play a vet rank character, I was running on my veteran templar anyway.

Here are my results:

I began Cadwell's Gold at vr6 and, after doing absolutely everything (including killing every mob I came across), I was just barely under vr11, when the change to how much was needed was implemented a few days ago. However, I was slightly under leveled everywhere I went and ended up hitting the vr9 wall, after doing all but the bugged main quest in AD, when it would randomly require 4m to get to vr10 for some reason.

I did nothing different and I ended up with a somewhat similar result to what I was ending up with earlier.

What you should take from this post: Yes, you are required to literally do everything, including grinding (albeit as you go and not the traditional way of staying in one area), to actually rank up once per vet zone. The XP isn't as great as it once was, for quests, but it's trading off to be just slightly slower than it was before.

khele23eb17_ESO

diabeticDemon18 wrote: »

onlinegamer1 wrote: »

murtrem_ESO wrote: »

I'm not a mathlete. I haven't checked how much xp what gives or how many of this I need to complete to get this % of my level. Instead, I decided to do the unthinkable and leave the forums to go level up a v2 alt. In every mmo including this one, I take the approach of killing everything in my path while I quest because why sneak past easy xp. I finished an entire zone, 100%, and then killed 3 mobs. Ding, v3. I didn't record it, I didn't keep track of every little thing. I just (gasp) left the damn forums and played the game. I'm happy with the rate of vet xp gained and I no longer care to read these whiny mathlete posts. Good day.

Thanks for providing more evidence to support the issue.

ZoS, can we get a response if having to do every single thing + grind mobs is now the ONLY way to level in VR content? What happened to "play how you want"?

... I think you missed the point of his response... he was saying that the speed is fine and he didn't have to especially grind any harder than normal to level up?

The point is, the speed is now slower than before while they advertised making things go faster with the VP to XP change.

Ohioastro

onlinegamer1 wrote: »

DenverRalphy wrote: »

You have a very skewed view of what Grinding Mobs actually means. Doing the quests, and killing monsters that cross your path along the way, is not the same thing as doing 100% of the content and grinding mobs.

Grinding insinuates you have to go out and kill every last monster you can possibly find, wait for them to respawn, kill them again, rinse, repeat.

Right, and as of right now, you have to to gain a VR rank. That's the problem.

FYI, just got some more data:
- Completing a Delve (not including the boss kill XP, just the 1-time reward (which turns the delve white on your map): 1011 xp (VR1 zone)
- World boss completion (again, the 1-time reward, not the kill xp): 910 xp

There are:
- 6 Group bosses per map
- 3 Dolmens per map
- 6 Delves per map
- 1 Public dungeon, 1 Group Dungeon

6 Bosses x 910 = 5460 xp
6 Delves x 1011 = 6066 xp
If dolmens are worth 1k each, thats 3000 more
If Public dungeon and Group are 225% bonus completions, thats 9k each, or 18k.

Total: 32,500, or 3.2% of your level.

From previous, we know that for Zone quests, we have 71 total.
66 minor quests = 49.5% of your level.
5 major quests = 8% of your level.
Total: 57.5% of your level from all zone quests.

57.5 + 3.2 = 60.7%.
Adding exploration does nothing to this number (its non-existent exp).
Adding chests is likewise irrelevant.
Lets round to 61% for chests and exploration because I'm nice.

That leaves 39% of your exp required to come from kills. You will NOT get 39% of your total exp from "incidental kills" (kills you get from completing all of the above things).

You will have to purposefully seek out and grind mobs to level.

Again, NO OPTIONS ANYMORE IS A BAD CHANGE TO THE GAME.

You should try actually playing the game instead of putting numbers in spreadsheets. As a VR8 in Rivenspire, for example, I got 12-14K from each delve that I completed. This is not "grinding", but it is "clearing" all of the way through once. This is one of many examples where you're dramatically undercounting what people actually get from doing things in game. In the game right now you get a majority of your experience from passive mob kills - which is actually *good*, since you can choose how many of those you want to do, and there is a limited supply of tougher bosses and one-shot experience sources. But if you just clear from A to B instead of walking around all of the mobs it appears that you'll do just fine, pretty much like before. It just isn't that different once they cut the leveling amount by a third.

diabeticDemon18

khele23eb17_ESO wrote: »

diabeticDemon18 wrote: »

onlinegamer1 wrote: »

murtrem_ESO wrote: »

I'm not a mathlete. I haven't checked how much xp what gives or how many of this I need to complete to get this % of my level. Instead, I decided to do the unthinkable and leave the forums to go level up a v2 alt. In every mmo including this one, I take the approach of killing everything in my path while I quest because why sneak past easy xp. I finished an entire zone, 100%, and then killed 3 mobs. Ding, v3. I didn't record it, I didn't keep track of every little thing. I just (gasp) left the damn forums and played the game. I'm happy with the rate of vet xp gained and I no longer care to read these whiny mathlete posts. Good day.

Thanks for providing more evidence to support the issue.

ZoS, can we get a response if having to do every single thing + grind mobs is now the ONLY way to level in VR content? What happened to "play how you want"?

... I think you missed the point of his response... he was saying that the speed is fine and he didn't have to especially grind any harder than normal to level up?

The point is, the speed is now slower than before while they advertised making things go faster with the VP to XP change.

I do see that they didn't speed it up and they said they were going to. I'm not arguing that, I think they probably should have held true to that, but the tone I'm getting from reading these posts is more of a "They broke leveling on my Veteran character", "leveling is slower on my character", or "There's only one way to level now"; all three of these statements are 100% false, you can still level, it's not slower, and there are still multiple ways on how you decide to level

Nihil

Your exploration exp appears to be low ( I think you have hit one of those rare non standard exploration point) I got 300 exploration exp from a vr 4 zone, and I get 500 exploration xp while in cyrodil. I can make no comments on how many "major" quests there are but I remember getting some major rewards off of quests that were not associated with cadwell gold / silver, but as I am vr 14 I can't verify that anymore. Also with the bug capping quests at lvl 50 levels we are not sure where the quests exp is going to go once they fix that (so quest exp is not 100% accurate yet for their intended leveling process).

You also get between 300 exp - 1200 exp per player kill in cyrodil ( mentioning as to show exp out of pve as that is an option too) you get 11k exp for completing a bounty quest in cyrodil (looks to be ranked at very hard).

onlinegamer1

diabeticDemon18 wrote: »

I do see that they didn't speed it up and they said they were going to. I'm not arguing that, I think they probably should have held true to that, but the tone I'm getting from reading these posts is more of a "They broke leveling on my Veteran character", "leveling is slower on my character", or "There's only one way to level now"; all three of these statements are 100% false, you can still level, it's not slower, and there are still multiple ways on how you decide to level

The last two of those are 100% false.

- Leveling is absolutely slower than before.
- There is only 1 way to level now: do every single thing in a zone + grind mobs. There is no other way to level.

Period.

diabeticDemon18

onlinegamer1 wrote: »

diabeticDemon18 wrote: »

I do see that they didn't speed it up and they said they were going to. I'm not arguing that, I think they probably should have held true to that, but the tone I'm getting from reading these posts is more of a "They broke leveling on my Veteran character", "leveling is slower on my character", or "There's only one way to level now"; all three of these statements are 100% false, you can still level, it's not slower, and there are still multiple ways on how you decide to level

The last two of those are 100% false.

- Leveling is absolutely slower than before.
- There is only 1 way to level now: do every single thing in a zone + grind mobs. There is no other way to level.

Period.

People have very much explained how it being slower is false. If it is slower, it's by a very minute amount and you're complaining is wasting more of your time than if you just took the extra 15 minutes to finish. And, you are forgetting there is a PvP aspect of this game that gives you experience.

Cazic

onlinegamer1 wrote: »

diabeticDemon18 wrote: »

I do see that they didn't speed it up and they said they were going to. I'm not arguing that, I think they probably should have held true to that, but the tone I'm getting from reading these posts is more of a "They broke leveling on my Veteran character", "leveling is slower on my character", or "There's only one way to level now"; all three of these statements are 100% false, you can still level, it's not slower, and there are still multiple ways on how you decide to level

The last two of those are 100% false.

- Leveling is absolutely slower than before.
- There is only 1 way to level now: do every single thing in a zone + grind mobs. There is no other way to level.

Period.

While your data and math is interesting, you can't use that to fully to predict each player's behavior. There is a significant amount of XP gained from things that come along with just playing the game (mainly mob kills - along the way - not grinding). You have several people here telling you that the current rate of progression is fine. Just relax, set the math aside for a couple days, and actually play the game.

onlinegamer1

diabeticDemon18 wrote: »

onlinegamer1 wrote: »

diabeticDemon18 wrote: »

I do see that they didn't speed it up and they said they were going to. I'm not arguing that, I think they probably should have held true to that, but the tone I'm getting from reading these posts is more of a "They broke leveling on my Veteran character", "leveling is slower on my character", or "There's only one way to level now"; all three of these statements are 100% false, you can still level, it's not slower, and there are still multiple ways on how you decide to level

The last two of those are 100% false.

- Leveling is absolutely slower than before.
- There is only 1 way to level now: do every single thing in a zone + grind mobs. There is no other way to level.

Period.

People have very much explained how it being slower is false. If it is slower, it's by a very minute amount and you're complaining is wasting more of your time than if you just took the extra 15 minutes to finish. And, you are forgetting there is a PvP aspect of this game that gives you experience.

And I have proven those people wrong, with evidence.

It seems like you only listen to anecdotes, and not evidence. So, here's one for you:
- prior to 1.5 I could level from VR1 to VR5 in one play session.
- after 1.5, with the exact same play session time spent, I get half of 1 VR level.

That means EXP is 10 times slower than before.

Lets do another anecdote.
- Prior to 1.5, I could do all quests, 1-2 dolmens, all 6 delves and all the while skipping as many monsters as I could (stealth, ride past, etc.) and would make a VR level.
- After 1.5, I cannot make a VR level doing THE EXACT SAME THINGS I DID PRIOR TO 1.5 (quests, delves, 1-2 dolmens, skipping as many monsters as I could skip).

You lose on facts.
You lose on anecdotes.

spryler

Boom there it is, you are a mob skipper. You could have said that up front and saved us all some time. So they modified xp and balanced it out, but because you skip a lot of mobs you lose out on some xp.

[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Flaming]

Nihil

onlinegamer1 wrote: »

diabeticDemon18 wrote: »

onlinegamer1 wrote: »

diabeticDemon18 wrote: »

I do see that they didn't speed it up and they said they were going to. I'm not arguing that, I think they probably should have held true to that, but the tone I'm getting from reading these posts is more of a "They broke leveling on my Veteran character", "leveling is slower on my character", or "There's only one way to level now"; all three of these statements are 100% false, you can still level, it's not slower, and there are still multiple ways on how you decide to level

The last two of those are 100% false.

- Leveling is absolutely slower than before.
- There is only 1 way to level now: do every single thing in a zone + grind mobs. There is no other way to level.

Period.

People have very much explained how it being slower is false. If it is slower, it's by a very minute amount and you're complaining is wasting more of your time than if you just took the extra 15 minutes to finish. And, you are forgetting there is a PvP aspect of this game that gives you experience.

And I have proven those people wrong, with evidence.

It seems like you only listen to anecdotes, and not evidence. So, here's one for you:
- prior to 1.5 I could level from VR1 to VR5 in one play session.
- after 1.5, with the exact same play session time spent, I get half of 1 VR level.

That means EXP is 10 times slower than before.

Lets do another anecdote.
- Prior to 1.5, I could do all quests, 1-2 dolmens, all 6 delves and all the while skipping as many monsters as I could (stealth, ride past, etc.) and would make a VR level.
- After 1.5, I cannot make a VR level doing THE EXACT SAME THINGS I DID PRIOR TO 1.5 (quests, delves, 1-2 dolmens, skipping as many monsters as I could skip).

You lose on facts.
You lose on anecdotes.

ok before I was just trying to give some numbers but this post you just over exaggerated to an extreme with using your numbers XD. Your numbers show at best that it is 2 times slower ( quests giving 57 % of a lvl by your calculations per zone with 0 mobs being calculated in) are you now comparing craglorn grind to quest leveling? if so that needs to be taken in with a different regards to the way you are presenting your thread. Also they have admitted that their is a bug with questing exp, which if it affects very hard quests (2.25 multipliers) could also extend into other quests outside of cadwell gold and silver ( bounty quests in cyrodil). I respect you are trying to show the information with math, but over exaggerating wont help.

hammer_fella

onlinegamer1 wrote: »

- Prior to 1.5, I could do all quests, 1-2 dolmens, all 6 delves and all the while skipping as many monsters as I could (stealth, ride past, etc.) and would make a VR level.

Thank god, we finally got to the heart of the matter.

You don't want to fight things? Fine. RP or enjoy the game however else you please. But don't complain you're having difficulty reaching max level in a game that is 95% about killing things.

[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Flaming]

Pmarsico9

I did every quest in every Gold/Silver zone and Cyrodiil's PVE quests, cleared every dungeon once (outside of CoH, CoA wasn't out yet) and every quest in every leveling zone. I did every delve and world boss.

And hit Craglorn at VR 10.

I had to grind from 10 to 14. I had no other choice. This fix didn't speed up anything, it slowed it down and damn-near killed alts because the grind groups were populated with alts and were running essentially permanently.

I understand ZoS' stance: You don't want grinds being hugely viable if people are going to be getting alternative advancement past 50 via the Champion system.

I think the problem isn't easily fixed. What they should have done was capped levels at 50 and not gated gear behind stupid VR levels that offered less than the 1-50 levels aside from the ability to get into higher stat-budget gear.

Even then, I was questing in Craglorn at VR1 briefly just to see how it would go with a group of 4 and we really didn't have any issues in all blue crafted sets.

The original Vet system was a flagrant miss and poorly implemented at that. They should narrow the ranges of each gear mat (i.e. Ebony, Ironweave, Jute,) dump the extra 14 levels, and simply cap levels at 50.

Then instead of offering more attribute points, cycle everything towards the champion system and offering more skill points for quests. Because the 10 ability limit is going to restrict you more than your "build" will.

The game is now more accessible to alts and the poorly populated end game now has more eligible participants.

Even the planned implementation is stupid because the extra 14 levels aren't warranted. The game simply needs to not be driven around gear gating based upon levels. It's pointless. Instead focus on making more of the PVE game less about DPS races and more about the action elements that aren't exploited that well because there's too much that is easily overcome by flat metrics.

Then everybody can truly play however the hell they want and it nearly removes all busy work altogether. And if it pisses off a few people, then that's their problem.

DenverRalphy

onlinegamer1 wrote: »

diabeticDemon18 wrote: »

onlinegamer1 wrote: »

diabeticDemon18 wrote: »

I do see that they didn't speed it up and they said they were going to. I'm not arguing that, I think they probably should have held true to that, but the tone I'm getting from reading these posts is more of a "They broke leveling on my Veteran character", "leveling is slower on my character", or "There's only one way to level now"; all three of these statements are 100% false, you can still level, it's not slower, and there are still multiple ways on how you decide to level

The last two of those are 100% false.

- Leveling is absolutely slower than before.
- There is only 1 way to level now: do every single thing in a zone + grind mobs. There is no other way to level.

Period.

People have very much explained how it being slower is false. If it is slower, it's by a very minute amount and you're complaining is wasting more of your time than if you just took the extra 15 minutes to finish. And, you are forgetting there is a PvP aspect of this game that gives you experience.

And I have proven those people wrong, with evidence.

Not really. You've presented your flawed evidence, and refuse to recognize the evidence contradictory to your claim. Despite players providing in game experience to back it up.

I myself pointed out that my VR2 toon is earning XP at a rate that will level to VR3 before completing the zone. But you just ignore it.

onlinegamer1

DenverRalphy wrote: »

I myself made an unfounded claim that my VR2 toon is earning XP at a rate that will level to VR3 before completing the zone. But we all just ignore it due to lack of evidence.

Fixed.

hammer_fella

DenverRalphy wrote: »

Not really. You've presented your flawed evidence, and refuse to recognize the evidence contradictory to your claim. Despite players providing in game experience to back it up.

I myself pointed out that my VR2 toon is earning XP at a rate that will level to VR3 before completing the zone. But you just ignore it.

But you're just grinding dude. Doesn't count. There is ONLY ONE OPTION NOW.

DenverRalphy

onlinegamer1 wrote: »

DenverRalphy wrote: »

I myself made an unfounded claim that my VR2 toon is earning XP at a rate that will level to VR3 before completing the zone. But we all just ignore it due to lack of evidence.

Fixed.

Swing and a miss. My VR2 toon is already past the 500k mark, and has well over 50% of the zone to complete. But hey, don't let what's actually happening in game get in the way of your opinion.

onlinegamer1

DenverRalphy wrote: »

onlinegamer1 wrote: »

DenverRalphy wrote: »

I myself made an unfounded claim that my VR2 toon is earning XP at a rate that will level to VR3 before completing the zone. But we all just ignore it due to lack of evidence.

Fixed.

Swing and a miss. I am claiming that my VR2 toon is already past the 500k mark, and has well over 50% of the zone to complete. But hey, don't let what I'm fabricating with no proof or screenshots or any other evidence whatsoever, like you put in the OP, get in the way of facts.

Fixed.

diabeticDemon18

Pmarsico9 wrote: »

I did every quest in every Gold/Silver zone and Cyrodiil's PVE quests, cleared every dungeon once (outside of CoH, CoA wasn't out yet) and every quest in every leveling zone. I did every delve and world boss.

And hit Craglorn at VR 10.

I had to grind from 10 to 14. I had no other choice. This fix didn't speed up anything, it slowed it down and damn-near killed alts because the grind groups were populated with alts and were running essentially permanently.

I understand ZoS' stance: You don't want grinds being hugely viable if people are going to be getting alternative advancement past 50 via the Champion system.

I think the problem isn't easily fixed. What they should have done was capped levels at 50 and not gated gear behind stupid VR levels that offered less than the 1-50 levels aside from the ability to get into higher stat-budget gear.

Even then, I was questing in Craglorn at VR1 briefly just to see how it would go with a group of 4 and we really didn't have any issues in all blue crafted sets.

The original Vet system was a flagrant miss and poorly implemented at that. They should narrow the ranges of each gear mat (i.e. Ebony, Ironweave, Jute,) dump the extra 14 levels, and simply cap levels at 50.

Then instead of offering more attribute points, cycle everything towards the champion system and offering more skill points for quests. Because the 10 ability limit is going to restrict you more than your "build" will.

The game is now more accessible to alts and the poorly populated end game now has more eligible participants.

Even the planned implementation is stupid because the extra 14 levels aren't warranted. The game simply needs to not be driven around gear gating based upon levels. It's pointless. Instead focus on making more of the PVE game less about DPS races and more about the action elements that aren't exploited that well because there's too much that is easily overcome by flat metrics.

Then everybody can truly play however the hell they want and it nearly removes all busy work altogether. And if it pisses off a few people, then that's their problem.

You've always had to grind from V10 to 14, from what I've heard? V10 is where I thought most people ended up after everything, now they're saying you end up at like V4 or V6? I don't remember that well.

None the less, I do agree that the Veteran Ranking system is almost useless as it stands

DenverRalphy

hammer_fella wrote: »

DenverRalphy wrote: »

Not really. You've presented your flawed evidence, and refuse to recognize the evidence contradictory to your claim. Despite players providing in game experience to back it up.

I myself pointed out that my VR2 toon is earning XP at a rate that will level to VR3 before completing the zone. But you just ignore it.

But you're just grinding dude. Doesn't count. There is ONLY ONE OPTION NOW.

Don't mind the LOL I just gave you. It was an honest laugh and not a dig to down vote your post. (I feel obligated to point those out these days)

=D

Cazic

onlinegamer1 wrote: »

DenverRalphy wrote: »

I myself made an unfounded claim that my VR2 toon is earning XP at a rate that will level to VR3 before completing the zone. But we all just ignore it due to lack of evidence.

Fixed.

Putting words in other people's mouths to support yourself.. many you're just losing credibility every time you post.

His claims weren't unfounded. They were founded based on what he's experienced while actually playing the game. Myself and others can back that up.

Very few of us care about the math involved behind how many of X = Y amount of experience. As long as the rate of progression feels good while playing the game, then it doesn't matter. If you choose to skip as many monsters as you can while playing, yeah you're probably going to progress slower than the rest of us.

diabeticDemon18

onlinegamer1 wrote: »

DenverRalphy wrote: »

onlinegamer1 wrote: »

DenverRalphy wrote: »

I myself made an unfounded claim that my VR2 toon is earning XP at a rate that will level to VR3 before completing the zone. But we all just ignore it due to lack of evidence.

Fixed.

Swing and a miss. I am claiming that my VR2 toon is already past the 500k mark, and has well over 50% of the zone to complete. But hey, don't let what I'm fabricating with no proof or screenshots or any other evidence whatsoever, like you put in the OP, get in the way of facts.

Fixed.

-.- really dude? You "fixed" @DenverRalphy‌ 's post because you didn't agree with it. You showed some PURPLE TEXT ON A BLACK BACKGROUND SAYING THIS IS WHAT XP I GOT FROM THIS... how is your information more credible than his? I could make the exact same thing in paint in 3 minutes, want me to demonstrate??

Edit: I said purple... I'm colorblind so, maybe it's blue. I don't really care, my point stands

jambam817_ESO

I was hoping for some beefy Pectoral Evidence. I was disappoint