Was biting jabs nerfed?

RoCoL

grizzbi wrote: »

I'm a templar. I want this skill to be nerfed. I don't want my class to be balanced around this skill. It's still OP in PVE. This single ability works better than 4 or 5 combined. If you want to be a one trick poney in PvE, you can still spam it..you just need to use another OP skill with it like Volcanic rune. Or even Magnum shot or anything else..Smashing 2 buttons is not difficult.

People should stop to wear only light armor. They should try hybrid builds or even stamina builds. Those ones need attention. For more diversity...

Baloney.

I use Resto Staff and S/S on my Templar. If I ditch the light gear, I no longer efficiently fulfill the healer role.

Biting Jabs and a few skills from the S/S line was my way of grinding through mobs. (I do not mind grinding, I like questing, I enjoy a challenge) The nerf made to biting jabs has neutered my templar. Short of a complete respec, attribute change and gear swap; therein lies the problem with making these changes: I am no longer an effective, efficient healer (my primary archetype).

TBH there are only a few decent Templar class skills and passives that help fulfill the "Cleric" role - and one of those was nerfed as well!

tola.francescob16_ESO

Nerfing templars to prevent the BOT Probelms, is like curtting off you *** to prevent getting HIV.

Is simply stupid.

Kraun

It's nice to have the shittiest and the first ever to be nerfed class to be nerfed even more. With the way things are going, my sub will not continue.

RoCoL

tola.francescob16_ESO wrote: »

Nerfing templars to prevent the BOT Probelms, is like curtting off you *** to prevent getting HIV.

Is simply stupid.

Thing is, Zeni is not admitting to this being the issue. The statement says it was "doing too much single target damage"- something, to my knowledge was not complained about like so many other skills.

Bangstin

Heh. People 'unsubbing' when a single skill got nerfed... Guess you people don't play any mmo for very long

Arsenic_Touch

Kraun wrote: »

It's nice to have the shittiest and the first ever to be nerfed class to be nerfed even more. With the way things are going, my sub will not continue.

[snip] class you say? HA. First ever nerfed class to be nerfed more you say? Double HA!

[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Cursing & Profanity]

Enkshar

It would be nice to hear how did ZOS get the feedback that showed that Bitting Jabs was doing to much single target DPS as it clear that theres no such info on forums, maybe PTS? Im asking this to try to understand how ZOS gets its info and make decision in this game becuase till now they make no sence.

And please, remove the skill lockout templar have after Bitting Jabs asap, cuase its that, a lockout, we cant do *** after using that skill other than see how our char gets rapes for 1.2 seconds.

mousekime111rwb17_ESO

biting jabs was doing far too much single target damage for the utility it provided. Given that it could PERMANANTLY lock down a single target while doing the same amount of damage a dedicated damage only 0 utility 0 aoe ability would do to a single target whilst doing 70% of the damage you'd expect from a dedicated AE ability to enemies behind the one you're completely locking down.

IT DID WAY TO MUCH- long story short zeni fixed it, go use other abilities to aid you in damage, aurora javelin and backlash are FANTASTIC single target abilities - use a mixture of weapon ae abilities- impulse, cleave, bombard, scorched earth, whirlwind etc with sunshield and solar barrage for group mobs. maybe use biting jabs as a broken as balls execute ability.

Moomins

ummm no. Not for me. Biting jabs still sloooooooowwwww

dcincali

mousekime111rwb17_ESO wrote: »

biting jabs was doing far too much single target damage for the utility it provided. Given that it could PERMANANTLY lock down a single target while doing the same amount of damage a dedicated damage only 0 utility 0 aoe ability would do to a single target whilst doing 70% of the damage you'd expect from a dedicated AE ability to enemies behind the one you're completely locking down.

IT DID WAY TO MUCH- long story short zeni fixed it, go use other abilities to aid you in damage, aurora javelin and backlash are FANTASTIC single target abilities - use a mixture of weapon ae abilities- impulse, cleave, bombard, scorched earth, whirlwind etc with sunshield and solar barrage for group mobs. maybe use biting jabs as a broken as balls execute ability.

Where is your proof? Videos? Pics? Testimonials? You have NOTHING.. If it did WAY TOO MUCH, why are the top of the leader boards in PVP all sorcs and dk's. 6 of the top 30 are temps.. and they do WAY TOO MUCH.. Get out of here...

Bangstin

dcincali wrote: »

Where is your proof? Videos? Pics? Testimonials? You have NOTHING.. If it did WAY TOO MUCH, why are the top of the leader boards in PVP all sorcs and dk's. 6 of the top 30 are temps.. and they do WAY TOO MUCH.. Get out of here...

What proof you think he needs? The devs saw a broken/op ability and fixed it

sativa1874

I can't bring myself to quest more than 5 minutes now. Just farmed motifs yesterday instead. Ive soloed to vr8 and since the patch. I've respecced twice at a cost of 36k. Gaming is meant to be relaxing for *** sake this is just ***. I've defended this game my 3 friends I joined with have all quit. There is no way I'm rolling a new toon as the thought of doing all those quests again is too much. Looks like it's over for me. I've never gave up on an mmo this soon but it just makes me angry playing now and that's not good.

dermottib14_ESO

zgrssd wrote: »

dermottib14_ESO wrote: »

I dont know if its jsut me, but it seems to be a huge delay between castings of it. I used to be able to jsut spam it.

Now it feels like there is a .5-1 secon delay between casts?

can somone else tesT?

They did indeed and forgot to Document it:
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/100211/patch-notes-v1-1-2#latest
And they will change it again with the next patch.

One additional addendum for the Templar skill Biting Jabs:

In patch 1.1.2, we increased the internal cooldown of Biting Jabs from 0.5 seconds to 1.2 seconds. Unfortunately, this change was not documented in the patch notes. This was not intended, and we do apologize.

This change was made to balance the ability's high single target damage. However we have been reading your feedback, and agree that the ability feels too unresponsive now. We will be reverting this change for the next patch (as soon as possible), and instead will slightly increase the ability's resource cost.

Yea, they added that after i made this thread.

mousekime111rwb17_ESO

dcincali wrote: »

mousekime111rwb17_ESO wrote: »

biting jabs was doing far too much single target damage for the utility it provided. Given that it could PERMANANTLY lock down a single target while doing the same amount of damage a dedicated damage only 0 utility 0 aoe ability would do to a single target whilst doing 70% of the damage you'd expect from a dedicated AE ability to enemies behind the one you're completely locking down.

IT DID WAY TO MUCH- long story short zeni fixed it, go use other abilities to aid you in damage, aurora javelin and backlash are FANTASTIC single target abilities - use a mixture of weapon ae abilities- impulse, cleave, bombard, scorched earth, whirlwind etc with sunshield and solar barrage for group mobs. maybe use biting jabs as a broken as balls execute ability.

Where is your proof? Videos? Pics? Testimonials? You have NOTHING.. If it did WAY TOO MUCH, why are the top of the leader boards in PVP all sorcs and dk's. 6 of the top 30 are temps.. and they do WAY TOO MUCH.. Get out of here...

Right, I could have worded myself better- it did way to much for one ability. DKs and sorcs are broken in pvp: see bolt escape and infinitank. the fact that in addition to bolt escape and infinitank users templars still managed to get 20% out of the top 30 shows that a skilled player can play a balanced role as intended. probably without spamming biting jabs.

What I meant to say more clearly is that biting jabs ON IT'S OWN did way to much. Spamming biting jabs would never get one to the #1 spot. Smart use of the entirety of one's arsenal, will. Biting jabs was a skill free way to do everything, aoe - single target and lockdown. Now it fits as an executioner ability and a clutch stun.

PayneTK

Jesus Christ i thought the forum was exaggerating but i really can't play the game anymore. I tried questing with my Templar and it feels like a double nerf.

Shield Bash + Biting Jabs ...the only two skills that kept me barely alive.

I was happy finishing mobs with Shield Bash when critically low on stamina just to save me from instant death, and without Biting Jabs i just can't see myself pushing through mobs.

Combat was one thing i enjoyed about this game and now i can't see myself in liking this game anymore. I don't want to start another class and i just don't enjoy questing anymore.

Jeremy_gelber_ESO

mousekime111rwb17_ESO wrote: »

biting jabs was doing far too much single target damage for the utility it provided. Given that it could PERMANANTLY lock down a single target while doing the same amount of damage a dedicated damage only 0 utility 0 aoe ability would do to a single target whilst doing 70% of the damage you'd expect from a dedicated AE ability to enemies behind the one you're completely locking down.

meanwhile crystal shard spam will outdps and out cc jabs. from the safety of 28m away.

mousekime111rwb17_ESO

Jeremy_gelber_ESO wrote: »

mousekime111rwb17_ESO wrote: »

biting jabs was doing far too much single target damage for the utility it provided. Given that it could PERMANANTLY lock down a single target while doing the same amount of damage a dedicated damage only 0 utility 0 aoe ability would do to a single target whilst doing 70% of the damage you'd expect from a dedicated AE ability to enemies behind the one you're completely locking down.

meanwhile crystal shard spam will outdps and out cc jabs. from the safety of 28m away.

with no aoe to back it up, no bonus damage on low hp targets and a higher cost

Bangstin

PayneTK wrote: »

Jesus Christ i thought the forum was exaggerating but i really can't play the game anymore. I tried questing with my Templar and it feels like a double nerf.

Shield Bash + Biting Jabs ...the only two skills that kept me barely alive.

I was happy finishing mobs with Shield Bash when critically low on stamina just to save me from instant death, and without Biting Jabs i just can't see myself pushing through mobs.

Combat was one thing i enjoyed about this game and now i can't see myself in liking this game anymore. I don't want to start another class and i just don't enjoy questing anymore.

Don't worry, you are not the only one that relied on broken skills. There's plenty of other good ones to choose from luckily.

steveb16_ESO46

stefanroeth123neb18_ESO wrote: »

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

Thank you all for your patience as we tracked this one down. We have an answer for you.

In patch 1.1.2, we increased the internal cooldown of Biting Jabs from 0.5 seconds to 1.2 seconds. Unfortunately, this change was not documented in the patch notes. This was not intended, and we do apologize.

This change was made to balance the ability's high single target damage. However we have been reading your feedback, and agree that the ability feels too unresponsive now. We will be reverting this change for the next patch (as soon as possible), and instead will slightly increase the ability's resource cost.

I am really beginning to think that people at ZOS don't play their own game.... Please, use 10 minutes to play a DK and a Sorc DPS and then another 10 minutes to play a Templar DPS. And then tell me that there is even ONE thing that the templar is too good at... Too high single target dmg, are you kidding me? The pure fact that the Templar is out of magicka about 30 seconds into a fight and needs other means to regain that alone negates this "too high single target dmg".

It's really a joke what the game devs are doing at the moment.

It's just flailing around. There's no plan, no purpose and certainly no testing. IMHO they can balance the classes once all class active and passive skills, weapon swap issues and skill not triggering problems have been fixed.

You cannot balance if things aren't working.

Mephos

bump, its said that it gets fixed (reverted back) with the next patch. next patch was yesterday .. character still feels horrible to play atm.

Bangstin

Mephos wrote: »

bump, its said that it gets fixed (reverted back) with the next patch. next patch was yesterday .. character still feels horrible to play atm.

Yesterday was just a hotfix, no servers were taken down.

tinythinker

Jabs is working fine for me today, cannot speak for anyone else. The added delay/clunky feel seems to be gone. I just hope they leave it as it now is with whatever fixes or corrections they made. If it was a slight mana magicka increase the change isn't crippling to my resource management so I don't need to drop the ability from my attack routine. The current speed and damage I am getting makes it a useful part of my rotation and flows well in combat. I hope jabs is working OK for others now as well. This unexpected cool-down change happened right after I rolled a templar (I was around level 17/18) so it's good to have things settled one way or the other so I can continue learning the class. Now if only the framerate issue/choppy movement would go away I would be able to fully appreciate all of the great things that also came out with this update

RoCoL

Bangstin wrote: »

PayneTK wrote: »

Jesus Christ i thought the forum was exaggerating but i really can't play the game anymore. I tried questing with my Templar and it feels like a double nerf.

Shield Bash + Biting Jabs ...the only two skills that kept me barely alive.

I was happy finishing mobs with Shield Bash when critically low on stamina just to save me from instant death, and without Biting Jabs i just can't see myself pushing through mobs.

Combat was one thing i enjoyed about this game and now i can't see myself in liking this game anymore. I don't want to start another class and i just don't enjoy questing anymore.

Don't worry, you are not the only one that relied on broken skills. There's plenty of other good ones to choose from luckily.

This has been discussed to death. There happen to be zero, 0, no, none, not one alternative to biting jabs in the Templars skill tree to fulfill the role this skill did.

I would suggest it was not OP given the fact there were zero, 0, none, not one, thread about its op'ness. If the change was made based solely on the play testers input then QQ needs looked at and the PTS needs to be public to subscribers at this stage of 'tweaking'.

Jando

When do you think this issue will be resolved one way or the other? When will the "patch" happen? Maintenance on Monday/Tuesday?

PikkonMG

It better be fixed when they do this.

"We'll be performing a server reboot maintenance the morning of 5/26. Maintenance duration ETA is one hour. The North American maintenance will be at 3AM EDT. The European maintenance will be at 9AM CEST."

Enkshar

mousekime111rwb17_ESO wrote: »

Jeremy_gelber_ESO wrote: »

mousekime111rwb17_ESO wrote: »

biting jabs was doing far too much single target damage for the utility it provided. Given that it could PERMANANTLY lock down a single target while doing the same amount of damage a dedicated damage only 0 utility 0 aoe ability would do to a single target whilst doing 70% of the damage you'd expect from a dedicated AE ability to enemies behind the one you're completely locking down.

meanwhile crystal shard spam will outdps and out cc jabs. from the safety of 28m away.

with no aoe to back it up, no bonus damage on low hp targets and a higher cost

Actually crystal shard has a morph that does aoe dmg
crystal blast

CRYSTAL BLAST

Deals 32 Magic Damage to target and knocks down for 2 seconds. Deals 11 Magic Damage to nearby enemies.
New Effect:
Adds area damage.

dermottib14_ESO

I doubt it gets patched tommorow. Everything is done at a snails pace in this game.

oxylus

The problem isn't that biting jabs is OP, it's that so many templar skills are just awful. That's why so many people have it as their main skill. Things need to be balanced upwards for the templar.

Mortosk

tinythinker wrote: »

Jabs is working fine for me today, cannot speak for anyone else. The added delay/clunky feel seems to be gone. I just hope they leave it as it now is with whatever fixes or corrections they made. If it was a slight mana magicka increase the change isn't crippling to my resource management so I don't need to drop the ability from my attack routine. The current speed and damage I am getting makes it a useful part of my rotation and flows well in combat. I hope jabs is working OK for others now as well. This unexpected cool-down change happened right after I rolled a templar (I was around level 17/18) so it's good to have things settled one way or the other so I can continue learning the class. Now if only the framerate issue/choppy movement would go away I would be able to fully appreciate all of the great things that also came out with this update

It's not changed, same as it was after the patch.

Still locks your spell bar for over a second after you use it. Even though it's supposed to be an INTERNAL cooldown not a global one. In short, Templars still suck mightily. Can't believe they didn't feel the need to hotfix this. It is so bad right now I can't stand playing my character.

Mortosk

Bangstin wrote: »

Heh. People 'unsubbing' when a single skill got nerfed... Guess you people don't play any mmo for very long

You don't comprehend the magnitude of this nerf. If they would have just reduced the damage I would have been ok with it, I wouldn't have been happy, because I feel the skill is already balanced, and templars aren't exactly champions of DPS, but what they did takes it to a whole new level.

They completely crippled me and fundamentally changed the feel of combat with this patch. We are defenseless for over a second every time we cast this spell. We have to wait for what feels like an eternity to do anything. We can't even use a potion in the time we are locked out of our action bar.

Furthermore, over 3 days now and they haven't even acknowledged they did this. All they said was they added a 0.7 second ICD and forgot to document it. That is NOT what they did!

Would be nice if they would at least acknowledge they royally screwed up and apologize profusely, then hot fix it immediately. But I'd settle for just the hot fix.