Was biting jabs nerfed?

Millitum

@Nox_Aeterna‌ this is the only thing that makes me upset about the changes to Biting Jabs, or Templar skills in general. I dislike seeing people leave the game, however, I can understand your need to do so.

Sorry to see you go brother, but maybe you'll come back once all these kinks are worked out eh!

sotonin

Can we PLEASE get confirmation of when this is going to be changed. I can't even play my Templar anymore my solo ability is so trashed. I dont have any mage / fighter / undaunted skills and don't feel like being forced into doing all of those quests just to be able to play my class. This needs to be fixed

oxygen_boarderb16_ESO

My current bar for solo pve content:

1. Blazing Spear (can be swapped for any initiator/cc)
2. Brawler (insert aoe of choice/cc of choice)
3. Executioner (swap for execute of choice)
4. Repentance (swap for any support skill)
5. Fiery Shield (swap for survivability of choice)
6. Flawless Dawnbreaker (personal choice)

This build pretty much rocks any solo/questing content. Swap in and out for flavour. Sometimes Biting Jabs makes its way in to my rotation/builds, depends whats required and what kind of fight you have.

Gaudrath

sotonin wrote: »

Can we PLEASE get confirmation of when this is going to be changed. I can't even play my Templar anymore my solo ability is so trashed. I dont have any mage / fighter / undaunted skills and don't feel like being forced into doing all of those quests just to be able to play my class. This needs to be fixed

Please explain to me how did you manage to get to VR ranks without leveling up and putting skills in something other than the Aedric Spear line?

You do not need fighter and mage guild skills. As I said, I use a "gimped" one handed sword setup in VR content and do just fine. I used to roll as a dual dagger / bow ranger type and did just fine. I used to roll as a full heavy plate 2H sword dude and did just fine.

You have choices. Mix it up. Yes, I understand that you might like Jabs - I like them too. I love the whole Spear line. It's full of excellent stuff. Binding Javelin? Awesome. Blazing Spear? Awesome. Blazing Shield - that thing makes me come out of fights unscathed. Saved my ass more times than I can count.

@Millitum‌ - Reflective Light is better for me because it hits multiple targets. I use it often, the damage adds up quite a bit. With a sword I use it whenever the burn is out and mix it heavily with sword light/heavy attacks and blazing shield. Between the burn and the direct damage of RL, the shield's protection and damage and the output I get from the sword, taking out 3 mobs is relatively easy. Usually I open with Dark Flare for the extra attack power on the opener.

I also find Immovable quite valuable. I have 8/34/8 stat setup on my Templar, with Magicka enchants on 5/2 light/heavy armor and softcapped magicka regen. When I pop Immovable, I softcap armor and spell resistance as well. And I can keep popping that because that's the only thing using stamina. My damage and healing comes from magicka, so that keeps everything nicely utilized.

And if I feel the need to get more physical, I can just swap weapons and skills, for example:

1. Brawler
2. Executioner
3. Blazing Shield
4. Rune Focus
5. Breath of Life
6. Soul Strike

Is pretty good for meleeing bosses and tougher encounters with the same armor setup. Again using both stat pools.

I also use shock staff with:

1. Biting Jabs
2. Reflective Light
3. Fire Rune/Dark Flare/Binding Javelin
4. Immovable/Expert Hunter/Circle of Protection
5. Breath of Life
6. Soul Strike/Empowering Sweep

for general mayhem.

I think a lot of folks have issues with the class because they either did not bother to properly learn what abilities do (for example they open with Jabs when there are a ton of better options), spam their abilities and waste resources, or are unwilling to occasionally switch their active skills. I have yet to see people use light/heavy attack combos. Everybody is just spamming their skills like their weapon doesn't exist. Then they complain about resource management.

audabon2013

Most importantly jabs is the go-to finisher for resto user templar players. No matter what ranged spells I am opening with, jabs is the only templar melee ability for light armor mag based resto players.

Some of us don't want to be forced to equip other weapons if we prefer a certain playstyle

oxygen_boarderb16_ESO

audabon2013 wrote: »

Most importantly jabs is the go-to finisher for resto user templar players. No matter what ranged spells I am opening with, jabs is the only templar melee ability for light armor mag based resto players.

Some of us don't want to be forced to equip other weapons if we prefer a certain playstyle

It will continue to work as a finisher/execute, pre and post fix. What it wont be as good at is being spammed.

tplink3r1

mousekime111rwb17_ESO wrote: »

biting jabs was doing far too much single target damage for the utility it provided. Given that it could PERMANANTLY lock down a single target while doing the same amount of damage a dedicated damage only 0 utility 0 aoe ability would do to a single target whilst doing 70% of the damage you'd expect from a dedicated AE ability to enemies behind the one you're completely locking down.

IT DID WAY TO MUCH- long story short zeni fixed it, go use other abilities to aid you in damage, aurora javelin and backlash are FANTASTIC single target abilities - use a mixture of weapon ae abilities- impulse, cleave, bombard, scorched earth, whirlwind etc with sunshield and solar barrage for group mobs. maybe use biting jabs as a broken as balls execute ability.

they said they nerfed because of the high single target damage, not "stunlock".
and i can still "perma-stun"( not for so long, templars have 0 magicka management) with it...(PvE)

Noobie

bean19 wrote: »

Enkshar wrote: »

Actually crystal shard has a morph that does aoe dmg
crystal blast

CRYSTAL BLAST

Deals 32 Magic Damage to target and knocks down for 2 seconds. Deals 11 Magic Damage to nearby enemies.
New Effect:
Adds area damage.

Players in the above quote compared Crystal Shard's AoE morph to Biting Jabs. . . both are class signature skills and they are so different that the comparison is Apples to Oranges.

1. Range: One is medium melee range and the other is long range.
2. Casting-Time: One takes about 1.5 seconds to cast and the other is instant.
3. Effect: One has a short knockdown effect (interrupt and short stun) while the other has a small knockback (interrupt and short push back that can give room for a charge ability but doesn't push out of melee range).
4. Damage: One is easy to calculate as it shows one big hit (~500-750 damage at early veteran levels - 750 is a crit), and the other is harder to calculate as it does 4 hits and has an increased chance to crit as the target loses health AND has a chance for a passive ability to proc a large bit of additional damage (~100-150 damage x 4 + (~250 damage * proc%) at veteran levels. The result is that Biting Jabs does more damage sometimes due to the proc and less when it didn't, BUT it is a much better AoE skill as it does that damage to all mobs in it's point-blank cone.
5. AoE - It is much easier to gather mobs for AoE abilities with melee abilities. The point-blank cone of Biting Jabs is much larger than the small circle of Crystal Shards. Also, Crystal Shard's AoE damage is greatly reduced from that of the main hit.

So I'd say that Biting Jabs is the superior skill by a hair if you compare them side by side, but the comparison is silly because these skills don't exist in a vacuum. There are going to be individual class skills that are great and others that aren't nearly as good. It's how they impact the total pool of available skills for a class that effects balance.

I disagree, A sorc can be at 28m away and own you with those shard and when you get close they bolt escape away. a templar has to get up close and use biting jabs while you can move away or block it. i give the upper hand to crystal, and a templar will have to deal with the zerg coming over the hill while that wizard be halfway across the map in a second or 2.

D00fD1ll4

I call my Templar Build the "Vamplar".

Its a full heavy health armor wearing vampire build with a bow.

The Bow does nice damage when it hits from stealth. With the Vampire passive that reduces the stealthed movement malus and the boon the steed, you move stealthed as fast as normal. Also, at nights, the time to go into stealth halves. The stealth detection range also reduces so you will be stealthed most of the time anyway.

I then use either the Bow CC or AoE skills or the very nice skill Barrage, which does AoE Damage as well immobilizes 2 Mobs, for the Stamina Pool.

A Heavy Attack does around 230 Dmg + around 26 Somewhat Dmg depending on the Bow and the Target and a normal attack like 130. No Pool needed at all to do nice Damage! As you can kite many Mobs and you are ranged, the incoming damage is not so much when fighting meles. (they are immobilized the most time anyway).

Onto the magicka pool. Here the templar really plays out.

You got very good Damage to choose from, the best Healing skills available and good Defensive skills all paired with many CC effects as well.

Binding Javelin for example. Throws back the Enemy and immobilizes. Perfect when playing a ranged Build! Works on 90% of all Mobs, even on a lot of Bosses.
When it works on a boss and the boss has not so many adds, you can win any fight with this skill and your heavy/light attack alone your only enemy being your patience.

Reflective Light, hits and snares 3 Targets. I love to open fights with it, because i can hit all 3 them with some bow attacks before they are even near me. And even if they are, not long with Binding Javelin in my Bar.

A good selection of Healing Skills. But being a Vampire you won't even have to use your healing skill line so much because you got "Invigorating Pain". Recovering 150% health and stamina from the damage it does. Can only be used once per Mob but it means you can happily run into a 3-4 mob group, happily AoE them and leech health\stamina whenever needed (this is why i am going full heavy health, so i can tank a group for a while, makes it more relaxed to play) Ah, almost forgot, it fuels up ultima pretty fast.

Onto my last Skill, the beloved Bat Swarm

AoE Damage with health recovery per Mob affected? Shut up and take my Skillpoint!

As you can see, i don't use Biting Jabs at all. I used it as a finisher, but i dropped it the second i got the vampire skills because that changed my playstyle.

So it is not quite right to say "you can't play templar solo anymore because of the biting jab changes".

It may or does hurt a certain playstyle for sure, but you got really enough more skills to choose from to cope with it.

tplink3r1

bean19 wrote: »

Enkshar wrote: »

Actually crystal shard has a morph that does aoe dmg
crystal blast

CRYSTAL BLAST

Deals 32 Magic Damage to target and knocks down for 2 seconds. Deals 11 Magic Damage to nearby enemies.
New Effect:
Adds area damage.

Players in the above quote compared Crystal Shard's AoE morph to Biting Jabs. . . both are class signature skills and they are so different that the comparison is Apples to Oranges.

1. Range: One is medium melee range and the other is long range.
2. Casting-Time: One takes about 1.5 seconds to cast and the other is instant.
3. Effect: One has a short knockdown effect (interrupt and short stun) while the other has a small knockback (interrupt and short push back that can give room for a charge ability but doesn't push out of melee range).
4. Damage: One is easy to calculate as it shows one big hit (~500-750 damage at early veteran levels - 750 is a crit), and the other is harder to calculate as it does 4 hits and has an increased chance to crit as the target loses health AND has a chance for a passive ability to proc a large bit of additional damage (~100-150 damage x 4 + (~250 damage * proc%) at veteran levels. The result is that Biting Jabs does more damage sometimes due to the proc and less when it didn't, BUT it is a much better AoE skill as it does that damage to all mobs in it's point-blank cone.
5. AoE - It is much easier to gather mobs for AoE abilities with melee abilities. The point-blank cone of Biting Jabs is much larger than the small circle of Crystal Shards. Also, Crystal Shard's AoE damage is greatly reduced from that of the main hit.

So I'd say that Biting Jabs is the superior skill by a hair if you compare them side by side, but the comparison is silly because these skills don't exist in a vacuum. There are going to be individual class skills that are great and others that aren't nearly as good. It's how they impact the total pool of available skills for a class that effects balance.

wrong, bitting jabs has a 1.1 cast time, you dont get all the damage and the knockback if you cancel it.

Phantorang

The issue here is that Biting Jabs and Solar Barrage are Templars only AoE abilities, when they both suffer from some kind of global cooldown of 0.5-1.0 sec its very bad. Some talk about just changing to another ability, when there is NO other ability that hits more than 1 mob in melee range. We do have Reflective Lights, but it only works at range, close up in melee range it does only hit 1 mob.

Gaudrath

Phantorang wrote:

The issue here is that Biting Jabs and Solar Barrage are Templars only AoE abilities, when they both suffer from some kind of global cooldown of 0.5-1.0 sec its very bad. Some talk about just changing to another ability, when there is NO other ability that hits more than 1 mob in melee range. We do have Reflective Lights, but it only works at range, close up in melee range it does only hit 1 mob.

Try moving a little and aiming between mobs. I frequently use RL to hit multiple mobs by repositioning, aiming between them and casting. The only time there is an issue is if there is one mob between you and the rest.

Also, Blazing Shield will both protect you and hit everything around you when it expires. Then, there is the Blazing Spear ability which can be cast at melee range and is also an AoE + DoT + stun on a single target. Then we have Empowering Sweep, a very cheap ultimate which is basically available every fight if you pick the passives to increase ultimate buildup, which you should if you plan on using Dawn's Wrath abilities.

So as you can see, we have plenty of AoE abilities. And that's just Templar stuff. We have other options too. Nowhere does it say that class abilities should be the answer to everything.

I won't go too deeply into class balance, because it is obvious that ZOS has some work to do yet. Yeah, a Sorc can do some serious damage with Shards. Of course, if we cast Eclipse on them, they are pretty much done. And that's just one ability.

Anyway, Templars are perfectly viable for gameplay. People unsubbing over this Biting Jabs nerf is just... well, I can only assume they were bored with the game anyway.

Tootall2186

Nickdorlandb16_ESO wrote: »

You dont play templar do you ? This is the only real DPS skill a templar had.. Go away please

lol yes i do actually. I main a templar. Like i said, if this is the only dps skill you think templars have, then you obviously are playing wrong. Plus i love how you people act like this skill was destroyed.. you can still mow things down with this skill alone... So whats the problem, you cant mow down the groups as fast as you could before and you might have to actually use a heal, once...?

Like i said, learn to play the class and then come and talk. If SLIGHTLY changing 1 skill around is enough to make you stop playing... Be my guest and by all means, please do quit and leave the game for the rest of us.

Tootall2186

Tootall2186 wrote: »

Nickdorlandb16_ESO wrote: »

You dont play templar do you ? This is the only real DPS skill a templar had.. Go away please

Phantorang wrote: »

Tootall2186 wrote: »

Sometimes I wonder why I even bother with forums anymore... Biting jabs is still as hard hitting of a spell as ever. You have a .2-1 second delay between casts of it and cannot simply spam one skill anymore, oh no!

Honestly learn to play the class. We have a lot at our disposal that helps keep our dps up. You ppl crying sound like the HS thief spammers on gw2... This is definitely a case that warrants the response, L2P!

Figure out how to play with more than one skill. If you can't, the door is right there... --->

No mmo should have a skill that makes taking on content just a spam feast of said skill. It takes everything out of the game. Where's the strategy, where's the fun, where's the challenge...?

I've played the majority of the game solo or duo with my father. I'm the Templar he's the DK. When I'm solo I have no problems taking on groups of mobs in vet areas or dungeons. But I also never fell on the crutch that was biting jabs like a lot of these complainers did.

The issue is, why roll a Templar, when you can roll a DK or Sorc and perform alot better... This game is 90% solo questing, thats how it is designed, so to make the Templars ability to solo so much less effective than DK and Sorc, takes the point of Templar away from the game.

I rolled a templar because i like their skills over the rest of the classes. Do i care if im out dpsed by any other class. Hell no. Im playing a templar because one, ive always rolled a healer. And two, because i like the dawns wrath and aedric lines.

This game is entirely versatile and "play as you like". But the core of the game still leaves room for the best of the best type class for each role.

Nightblades will always be your best melee dps.
Sorc will always be your best ranged dps.
DK will always be the best tanks.
Templars will always be the best healers.

Can you use any of the 4 classes in any role you choose? Yes!

But it will be more difficult for some classes to try and outshine that "main" class at said role. Is that a problem? Not at all. I feel that if every class was or could be the best at any roll, it would be too similar. Each class would then be almost identical, just named something else with different skills that do the same thing. You need that ability to go with a full on tank class for a tank. But the option of having a really nice hybrid tank/dps, healer/dps or dps/healer is great and opens a lot of options across the board

Phantorang

Gaudrath wrote: »

Phantorang wrote:

The issue here is that Biting Jabs and Solar Barrage are Templars only AoE abilities, when they both suffer from some kind of global cooldown of 0.5-1.0 sec its very bad. Some talk about just changing to another ability, when there is NO other ability that hits more than 1 mob in melee range. We do have Reflective Lights, but it only works at range, close up in melee range it does only hit 1 mob.

Try moving a little and aiming between mobs. I frequently use RL to hit multiple mobs by repositioning, aiming between them and casting. The only time there is an issue is if there is one mob between you and the rest.

Im sorry to say, but thats a load of crap.... You cant aim between mobs with Reflective Lights, Reflective Lights needs a TARGET! Lol You havent even tried it, because to aim between mobs with Reflective Lights means you wont be able to cast it. Thats another weakness compared to Biting Jabs and Solar Barrage, neither needs a target.

And using the words "The only time there is an issue is if there is one mob between you and the rest" as if its something that rarely happens, but infact is the issue 90% of the time. It will only split into multiple targets if the targets are close to each other, it doesnt work when 1 mob is much closer, which is the issue after maybe 1-2 surprise attacks.

Reflective Lights IS Spammable though, which our other abilities should be too.

Gaudrath wrote: »

Also, Blazing Shield will both protect you and hit everything around you when it expires. Then, there is the Blazing Spear ability which can be cast at melee range and is also an AoE + DoT + stun on a single target. Then we have Empowering Sweep, a very cheap ultimate which is basically available every fight if you pick the passives to increase ultimate buildup, which you should if you plan on using Dawn's Wrath abilities.

So as you can see, we have plenty of AoE abilities. And that's just Templar stuff. We have other options too. Nowhere does it say that class abilities should be the answer to everything.

None of those are even close to what Biting Jabs does, or even Solar Barrage. I would very much like to see how they are useful vs 2+ mobs repetedly. They are nice single casts, but not even close to the DPS we need to take down 2+ mobs.

Gaudrath wrote: »

I won't go too deeply into class balance, because it is obvious that ZOS has some work to do yet. Yeah, a Sorc can do some serious damage with Shards. Of course, if we cast Eclipse on them, they are pretty much done. And that's just one ability.

ZOS got some work to do yes, make us a reason to have templar, while Templar got Healing, the Sorc got tons of stuff too, so thats no excuse for low DPS.

Gaudrath wrote: »

Anyway, Templars are perfectly viable for gameplay. People unsubbing over this Biting Jabs nerf is just... well, I can only assume they were bored with the game anyway.

I never said Templar isnt playable, because we can play and even level in VR content, its just ALOT easier with the Sorc and DK, which means it was a stupid idea to nerf our best dps when we already was in a bad place compared to the other classes.

And no one is quitting ESO because of Biting Jabs, its because it feels like *** to have made the mistake not having made a DK or Sorc from the beginning.

Khivas_Carrick

Hey.....I remember when this was changed, the CD part, but I must ask, was this hotfixed? I seem to be spamming the ability in between stuff and it seems to be working rather well, and it doesn't seem like it's that long of CD anymore, just a small one, to me at least. And after an argument with a guildie who I don't think I'l be talking to anymore, I feel as if I should ask about this as a way to make it up to him, because I can still do stuff after using Biting Jabs, such as heal and what not.

williamburr2001b14_ESO

This is how it's going to be. Every person who says "You just have to play better!" has been running Volcanic Runes and will wonder, when you point that out, what's wrong with that? It's because Volcanic Runes does exactly what people were using jabs for--it's damage + denial, and it's so ubiquitous it's begging for a nerf.

At this point my advice for any Templar is to focus on getting and using that Volcanic Rune. Staff/Staff helps a TON too, as do other non-Templar skills. Blazing shield is funny but SETS MAGICKA REGEN TO ZERO while up, so is not really viable since the good dps skills now are magic.

This is good opportunity to play around with class skills for fun, but if you want to advance the heart and soul of any viable Templar build for now is going to be Volcanic Rune and probably Dest staff.

Suel

Dimar wrote: »

Well it appears to be a concerted effort to eliminate Templars from the game or turn them into dedicated healers who can no longer solo. Hell if I only have a 50/50 chance of surviving a one on one encounter, and basically a sure fire trip to the wayshrine for multiple mobs, then I'm pretty much useless as a solo and as my damage is 30% less than what it was, I basically useless in a group. dedicated healing just isn't an option either as the magicka costs are far to high with on way to regen enough to make that work either. Makes beating Templar in PV easy though, guess that was the intent, give everyone a sure fire easy kill in PVP.

You sir are dead on everything you said is accurate. Can't play my Templar solo only can heal with him use a bow extra that's it no solo.

Gaudrath

Phantorang wrote: »

Gaudrath wrote: »

Phantorang wrote:

The issue here is that Biting Jabs and Solar Barrage are Templars only AoE abilities, when they both suffer from some kind of global cooldown of 0.5-1.0 sec its very bad. Some talk about just changing to another ability, when there is NO other ability that hits more than 1 mob in melee range. We do have Reflective Lights, but it only works at range, close up in melee range it does only hit 1 mob.

Try moving a little and aiming between mobs. I frequently use RL to hit multiple mobs by repositioning, aiming between them and casting. The only time there is an issue is if there is one mob between you and the rest.

Im sorry to say, but thats a load of crap.... You cant aim between mobs with Reflective Lights, Reflective Lights needs a TARGET! Lol You havent even tried it, because to aim between mobs with Reflective Lights means you wont be able to cast it. Thats another weakness compared to Biting Jabs and Solar Barrage, neither needs a target.

Ok, maybe I wasn't clear. This game uses a sticky targetting system. Meaning, once you start casting an ability, you can't switch targets. So backpedal a little and to the side, aim at one mob while moving into position and then fire off your reflective light. You will hit multiple targets. Always move into an optimal position. Play PvE as you would PvP.

And using the words "The only time there is an issue is if there is one mob between you and the rest" as if its something that rarely happens, but infact is the issue 90% of the time. It will only split into multiple targets if the targets are close to each other, it doesnt work when 1 mob is much closer, which is the issue after maybe 1-2 surprise attacks.

Oooh, how about you try... moving? You know, you open up with an attack on an archer and a melee, then run towards the archer, turn and hit them both again? Or you could stand there and eat arrows.

Reflective Lights IS Spammable though, which our other abilities should be too.

Do not spam. You are wasting resources. Especially on skills with a DoT or CC component.
And you wonder why you get destroyed.

None of those are even close to what Biting Jabs does, or even Solar Barrage. I would very much like to see how they are useful vs 2+ mobs repetedly. They are nice single casts, but not even close to the DPS we need to take down 2+ mobs.

Ok, so let's say you have a destro staff. Open with light attack (heavy if fire or ice), reflective light, light attack combo (heavy if lightning/resto). Reposition into melee range. Blazing shield. By this time one of the mobs usually starts their heavy/special attack, so watch out for that and block/interrupt it. Blazing shield will explode. Empowering Sweep. Reapply Reflective Light. Reposition. Reapply Blazing Shield.Use heavy/light attacks some more. Biting Jabs. Reposition. Blazing spear. Light attack. Reposition. Reflective light. Heal as necessary.

If anything is still alive, herd them in front of you and kill them all with a single Jabs. There, you're done. No spamming and you still have plenty of magicka and stamina left, plus your next ultimate is almost ready to use.

And with Resto staff it gets downright funny. You literally can't be killed by trash mobs with some combinations, in some cases you could take on 6 mobs at once and not get hit. But you have to move all the time, switch targets and all that jazz.

Or you could stand there and spam Jabs. In which case you *should* get roflstomped, by rabbits.

PvE is NOT a DPS race. Outlast them and destroy them. Only spammers need raw DPS to survive.

ZOS got some work to do yes, make us a reason to have templar, while Templar got Healing, the Sorc got tons of stuff too, so thats no excuse for low DPS.

Everybody has a ton of stuff. So what? I play Templar because I like playing templar, not because I can strut around with my iWin button. Does that mean Templars are unplayable and I should cancel my sub? No.

I never said Templar isnt playable, because we can play and even level in VR content, its just ALOT easier with the Sorc and DK, which means it was a stupid idea to nerf our best dps when we already was in a bad place compared to the other classes.

Templars are for real men. Besides, you can't nerf entire classes into the ground in one go... here we have templars crying like little babies because they slightly nerfed ONE SKILL.

Now imagine the kind of tears and rage there would be if they adjusted Sorc and DK all in one go. That would mean multiple nerfs across the board, not just one or two skills. The forums would explode. There would be rampaging in the streets. Governments would change.

And no one is quitting ESO because of Biting Jabs, its because it feels like *** to have made the mistake not having made a DK or Sorc from the beginning.

Only MMO noobs think like that. MMOs always have a FOTM. Especially new ones. Then those classes get nerfed, others get buffed. Then *those* get nerfed and others get buffed. Ad nauseam.

Quit the game if it is not fun for you, not because class X can do some stuff "better" than yours. Because that will ALWAYS be the case, regardless of the class you're playing.

terence.caroneb17_ESO

D00fD1ll4 wrote: »

I call my Templar Build the "Vamplar".

Its a full heavy health armor wearing vampire build with a bow.

The Bow does nice damage when it hits from stealth. With the Vampire passive that reduces the stealthed movement malus and the boon the steed, you move stealthed as fast as normal. Also, at nights, the time to go into stealth halves. The stealth detection range also reduces so you will be stealthed most of the time anyway.

I then use either the Bow CC or AoE skills or the very nice skill Barrage, which does AoE Damage as well immobilizes 2 Mobs, for the Stamina Pool.

A Heavy Attack does around 230 Dmg + around 26 Somewhat Dmg depending on the Bow and the Target and a normal attack like 130. No Pool needed at all to do nice Damage! As you can kite many Mobs and you are ranged, the incoming damage is not so much when fighting meles. (they are immobilized the most time anyway).

Onto the magicka pool. Here the templar really plays out.

You got very good Damage to choose from, the best Healing skills available and good Defensive skills all paired with many CC effects as well.

Binding Javelin for example. Throws back the Enemy and immobilizes. Perfect when playing a ranged Build! Works on 90% of all Mobs, even on a lot of Bosses.
When it works on a boss and the boss has not so many adds, you can win any fight with this skill and your heavy/light attack alone your only enemy being your patience.

Reflective Light, hits and snares 3 Targets. I love to open fights with it, because i can hit all 3 them with some bow attacks before they are even near me. And even if they are, not long with Binding Javelin in my Bar.

A good selection of Healing Skills. But being a Vampire you won't even have to use your healing skill line so much because you got "Invigorating Pain". Recovering 150% health and stamina from the damage it does. Can only be used once per Mob but it means you can happily run into a 3-4 mob group, happily AoE them and leech health\stamina whenever needed (this is why i am going full heavy health, so i can tank a group for a while, makes it more relaxed to play) Ah, almost forgot, it fuels up ultima pretty fast.

Onto my last Skill, the beloved Bat Swarm

AoE Damage with health recovery per Mob affected? Shut up and take my Skillpoint!

As you can see, i don't use Biting Jabs at all. I used it as a finisher, but i dropped it the second i got the vampire skills because that changed my playstyle.

So it is not quite right to say "you can't play templar solo anymore because of the biting jab changes".

It may or does hurt a certain playstyle for sure, but you got really enough more skills to choose from to cope with it.

It's not that you can't play templar solo, it's that you can't play melee combat with a templar anymore. You take too much damage and Biting Jabs was the way for a templar to get good dps and have radial sweep often enough to get an armor and tank (and not as efficiently as a DK sure, but it did the job)

I really wonder how people showing builds without biting jabs are thinking. You're saying having a skill broken (cause it makes you vulnerable for 1,1 sec without being able to do ANYTHING every time you use it) is not a problem ?

How about I delete every skill you don't use in the game, are you ok with it ? Or just double the cost of every skill you don't use ? Or put a global (cause its not internal its global, affects all your skills) cooldown on every skill you don't use ?

That's what happened, that's how bad it is. Nobody asked for a nerf of biting jabs, not Dks, not Nightblades, not Sorcs, nowhere in reddit or official forums. It wasn't OP, even on solo opponents. The only reason I see was Bots using it cause of critical chances when you put 4-5 bots on the same boss.

Now if you wanna think only about yourself and your way of playing a templar, go for it, but don't make it as if you played it "the way it's supposed to be played" when the game is advertized as "you can do any style of combat with every class".

Mephos

bump, when will this get fixed?

brisingr90

I wonder, what are they waiting for? Why they didn't revert the skill the way it used to in the last patch? Do they still think that this skill is OP?

Damn, if can get my money back...

sotonin

Does anybody have a working / efficient templar solo build for bow or resto staff. One that does NOT use fighters / mage / undaunted skills. Just plain vanilla templar skills. If I can manage to find one that is as good as my old biting jabs build I may start playing templar again. Unfortunately my old setup is trashed now so i've been playing my DK and Sorc

Mephos

I don´t know any other melee magicka (light aoe) skills for temps. -.-

there is just no other skill then biting jabs .. so please for *** sake, fix that ***

Celurian

Won't understand why there is a need to discuss about.
Are there no ways to prior other bug fixxes like Veteran Content Mops, Disconnects, Partyleader Bug and stuff instead of rushing out a nerf which even someone who actually don't play online Games AT ALL will notice a 1,2s stunn/silence (Global Cooldown) is not satisfying ??

People claiming "use another skills you l2p noob" are totally missing the point. As Main Healing Resto Templar i got basically no alternatives. It has been a pretty awesome skill which has been used in combination with "Dark Flare" and "Reflective Light" and now you want us to spamm "Reflective Light" instead of "Biting Jabs" ?
Hell.. get some Brain in gameplay designs. They even admit the mistake with the 1.2s internal cooldown. Stop discuss about this. I just cant wait for the magicka increase change since this won't be as stupid as staying arround for 1,2 seconds after finished channeling this spell.

Get a Brain. PLEASE. Think of it. Listen to the community and stop rushing minor issues while there are issues more importand. Specially on a class who is not similar strong compared to others anyway.

Serieosly. The last Days (except the trials!) has totally ruined the fun i had in this game.

oxygen_boarderb16_ESO

Celurian wrote: »

Won't understand why there is a need to discuss about.
Are there no ways to prior other bug fixxes like Veteran Content Mops, Disconnects, Partyleader Bug and stuff instead of rushing out a nerf which even someone who actually don't play online Games AT ALL will notice a 1,2s stunn/silence (Global Cooldown) is not satisfying ??

People claiming "use another skills you l2p noob" are totally missing the point. As Main Healing Resto Templar i got basically no alternatives. It has been a pretty awesome skill which has been used in combination with "Dark Flare" and "Reflective Light" and now you want us to spamm "Reflective Light" instead of "Biting Jabs" ?
Hell.. get some Brain in gameplay designs. They even admit the mistake with the 1.2s internal cooldown. Stop discuss about this. I just cant wait for the magicka increase change since this won't be as stupid as staying arround for 1,2 seconds after finished channeling this spell.

Get a Brain. PLEASE. Think of it. Listen to the community and stop rushing minor issues while there are issues more importand. Specially on a class who is not similar strong compared to others anyway.

Serieosly. The last Days (except the trials!) has totally ruined the fun i had in this game.

No we get it, Biting Jab spam was awesome, a little too awesome on the dps side. You still have options to dps, just not spamming it over and over again to reach a really high dps. The CD is being removed and a resource cost is being increased.

The whole intent behind BitJab was for it to be an execute ability, which it does really well at. Now people need to make a decision, do I want to spam BitJab or execute effectively.

It'll be more so priorities and rotations instead of just spammin BitJab w/ backlash to achieve max dps.

Mortosk

Millitum wrote: »

@williamburr2001b14_ESO well then, I guess I'm completely incorrect in the build I am using, and the success I am having with my build, is a complete illusion.

I don't mean to come off being snarky, but my build works. It works with Biting Jabs as my main means to DPS.

And nowhere do I insinuate with the aforementioned "l2p n00b", so frankly, you can shove that line.

You can surmise whatever you want out of my comments, that's you're prerogative and if it works for you, awesome. However, do not assume to know how I play, and what works for me, you have neither the right to assume that nor affirm it.

Call it hogwash, but I very rarely die, and if I do it's because I didn't set up my attack run correctly, wasn't paying attention or decided to try something without first weighing the outcomes.

I'm glad you are smarter than the rest of us and come prepared for battles. But, you hold a minority view about the changes to biting jabs. I suppose someone was bound to feel these changes were ok. Afterall, Osama bin Laden and Congress have 7-10% approval ratings in most polls.

Mortosk

Gaudrath wrote: »

What Millitum said. And for the thousand-th time, Jabs are a finisher. You use them to kill stuff. Not CC. Not avoidance. Kill. Open with something else. CC with something else. Finish them off with Jabs. I have Jabs permanently on my destro staff setup and while the delay is annoying it isn't gamebreaking. VR content and all.

Plus, they did acknowledge the problem and said they will be removing the delay and increasing the magicka cost.

You people who say biting jabs is a finisher are clueless. If it was a finisher it wouldn't be the first skill templars get and it wouldn't need a knock back component. Unless you are concerned about the zombie apocalypse and are worried the foes you just "finshed" with jabs are going to rise again, why would you need to knock back a corpse?

D00fD1ll4

i didn't even spam it when it was possible because it would have been SO FREAKING BORING TO PLAY

terence.caroneb17_ESO

so, no news from Zenimax today I guess ? You're gonna let tank/dps templars just quit your game ?