Everything you feared about stones is true... from their live broadcast...

RustedValor · July 2015

No matter how much people complain they are not going to completely revamp the entire design of a dlc that they have been working on for over a year. You are getting looted by people that kill you NO MATTER WHAT. Wheather its 100%, 90%, or whatever, its not going to be lowered so far that it wont suck to die, and people that hate this sytem are never going to like it. Some players will LOVE this and some will Hate it. Ite just a game, you'll live. Buy the items with gold like you already do with AP gear, or farm TV on a server your faction can keep locked down.

alainjbrennanb16_ESO · July 2015

yet again everyone is missing the mark zos touted the ic as a pve/pvp zone

MissBizz · July 2015

KerinKor wrote: »

show previous quotes

Sharee wrote: »

KerinKor wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

KerinKor wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

First, we want to thank everyone for posting their feedback so far. As we mentioned on ESO Live last week, the new Tel Var Stone system is intended to be high risk, high reward, and will bring a lot of excitement to PvP. We encourage everyone to try it out on the PTS once it's available and let us know what you think! We'll be keeping a close eye on feedback, and will make adjustments if necessary without compromising the intent of the system.

So why gate PVE progression by items only obtainable by forced-PVPing?

What PVE progression is gated by IC?

You will be perfectly able to complete all PvE content without even touching IC PvP areas, just like you can today.

ZOS announcement page!

Rewards that are unmatched in power await those who are brave enough to enter the Imperial City and claim them. Fight Molag Bal's personal guard, the elite Xivkyn, and other invaders from Coldharbour to win Tel Var Stones, the currency used to trade for mighty Veteran Rank 16 armor sets.

WIthout gear you can't play content, thus the content is GATED by the gear GATED by Stones which are forced-PVP only, unless you want to be held to ransom by price-gouging PVP gankers.

Q.E.D.

Hardly QED.

I asked you what content will be gated by the new gear. The answer is none. Because there is no PvE content that would require higher gear than VR14 before you can complete it.

LOL, so VR16 gear isn't needed till you finish VR16 content?

Really?

If that were true then clearly there's no point in VR16 at all!

@KerinKor Not sure if you are aware, but there will be new item sets in the new dungeons - which once you find them you can just port directly to them. And although not confirmed that I have seen, one would assume that the VR16 mob loot that is dropped in those dungeons should be able to be deconstructed for new VR16 crafting mats.

@ZOS_GinaBruno think you can find out if this is the case? With dungeons/pledges scaling to VR16, will mob dropped loot be able to be deconstructed for a chance at some of the new materials - in old dungeons scaled to VR16 and/or the new ones?

Sharee · July 2015

KerinKor wrote: »

show previous quotes

Sharee wrote: »

KerinKor wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

KerinKor wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

First, we want to thank everyone for posting their feedback so far. As we mentioned on ESO Live last week, the new Tel Var Stone system is intended to be high risk, high reward, and will bring a lot of excitement to PvP. We encourage everyone to try it out on the PTS once it's available and let us know what you think! We'll be keeping a close eye on feedback, and will make adjustments if necessary without compromising the intent of the system.

So why gate PVE progression by items only obtainable by forced-PVPing?

What PVE progression is gated by IC?

You will be perfectly able to complete all PvE content without even touching IC PvP areas, just like you can today.

ZOS announcement page!

Rewards that are unmatched in power await those who are brave enough to enter the Imperial City and claim them. Fight Molag Bal's personal guard, the elite Xivkyn, and other invaders from Coldharbour to win Tel Var Stones, the currency used to trade for mighty Veteran Rank 16 armor sets.

WIthout gear you can't play content, thus the content is GATED by the gear GATED by Stones which are forced-PVP only, unless you want to be held to ransom by price-gouging PVP gankers.

Q.E.D.

Hardly QED.

I asked you what content will be gated by the new gear. The answer is none. Because there is no PvE content that would require higher gear than VR14 before you can complete it.

LOL, so VR16 gear isn't needed till you finish VR16 content?

Really?

If that were true then clearly there's no point in VR16 at all!

There is no PvE VR16 content that would require VR16 gear to complete. No trials, no DSA.

If you can complete a hard vr14 trial in v14 gear, you should be able to complete a simple 4 man dungeon without any issues just the same, even if it has v16 mobs inside - and that is the only v16 PvE content there is.

ZOS_GinaBruno · July 2015

MissBizz wrote: »

@ZOS_GinaBruno think you can find out if this is the case? With dungeons/pledges scaling to VR16, will mob dropped loot be able to be deconstructed for a chance at some of the new materials - in old dungeons scaled to VR16 and/or the new ones?

Yes. Dungeons will be scaled up to VR16, and the loot you receive from these dungeons will also drop up to VR16. Loot you receive from both old and new dungeons (the new ones being the White-Gold Tower and Imperial Prison) can be deconstructed for a chance at some of the new materials.

MissBizz · July 2015

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

show previous quotes

MissBizz wrote: »

@ZOS_GinaBruno think you can find out if this is the case? With dungeons/pledges scaling to VR16, will mob dropped loot be able to be deconstructed for a chance at some of the new materials - in old dungeons scaled to VR16 and/or the new ones?

Yes. Dungeons will be scaled up to VR16, and the loot you receive from these dungeons will also drop up to VR16. Loot you receive from both old and new dungeons (the new ones being the White-Gold Tower and Imperial Prison) can be deconstructed for a chance at some of the new materials.

Thanks so much! That's what logic told me, but just wanted to be sure. @HeroOfNone

Ysne58 · July 2015

My two main objections at this point.

1- losing any stones (that is one of the positions being taken by other players) no testing needed for that one.

2. If I want this, I would want on both NA and EU servers and would therefore have to pay twice for it.

@ZOS_GinaBruno any word yet on how those racial passive changes to Argonians, Orcs and Khajiit are going to be handled?

Rinmaethodain · July 2015

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

show previous quotes

MissBizz wrote: »

@ZOS_GinaBruno think you can find out if this is the case? With dungeons/pledges scaling to VR16, will mob dropped loot be able to be deconstructed for a chance at some of the new materials - in old dungeons scaled to VR16 and/or the new ones?

Yes. Dungeons will be scaled up to VR16, and the loot you receive from these dungeons will also drop up to VR16. Loot you receive from both old and new dungeons (the new ones being the White-Gold Tower and Imperial Prison) can be deconstructed for a chance at some of the new materials.

@ZOS_GinaBruno Will the chance to obtain crafting materials from VR15 and VR16 items going to be on par with current chance to obtain materials from LVL1-VR14 items?

Or there is a plan to make VR15 VR16 decon droprate significantly lower than rest of items for any reason?

Attorneyatlawl · July 2015

DDuke wrote: »

show previous quotes

KerinKor wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

KerinKor wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

First, we want to thank everyone for posting their feedback so far. As we mentioned on ESO Live last week, the new Tel Var Stone system is intended to be high risk, high reward, and will bring a lot of excitement to PvP. We encourage everyone to try it out on the PTS once it's available and let us know what you think! We'll be keeping a close eye on feedback, and will make adjustments if necessary without compromising the intent of the system.

So why gate PVE progression by items only obtainable by forced-PVPing?

What PVE progression is gated by IC?

You will be perfectly able to complete all PvE content without even touching IC PvP areas, just like you can today.

ZOS announcement page!

Rewards that are unmatched in power await those who are brave enough to enter the Imperial City and claim them. Fight Molag Bal's personal guard, the elite Xivkyn, and other invaders from Coldharbour to win Tel Var Stones, the currency used to trade for mighty Veteran Rank 16 armor sets.

WIthout gear you can't play content, thus the content is GATED by the gear GATED by Stones which are forced-PVP only, unless you want to be held to ransom by price-gouging PVP gankers.

Q.E.D.

Where does it state gear is BoP, or that equally strong gear doesn't drop from the new group dungeons? Or that the SO sets etc won't be good after they've gone through revamp (also happening next patch)?

All we've learned is that these armour sets are "mighty", so hopefully they'll be worth using (so this DLC isn't a waste of time) lol

Besides, the best gear on live version of ESO already comes from PvP (Morag Tong, Shadow Walker, Ravager* etc).

*Note: I do not like this. In my opinion, hard to acquire gear such as Vicious Ophidian, Infallible Aether etc should be BiS due to the difficulty in acquiring them.

If anything, there should be parity brought to pve and pvp gear sources by allowing stones to purchase, bind on pickup as from pve, the numerous powerful gear sets only obtainable by repeatedly pve'ing currently such as the undaunted helms and shoulders, vicious ophidian/infallible aether/eternal yokeda (hopefully it isn't salvage fodder in the new patch like it is now ), and the veteran dungeon random drops such as Healing Staff of Thorns and its rings (VR16 please!).

Since gear has no special modifier based on where you're using it or got it from, a feature that sold me on ESO in the first place, I think it would be fair to allow for anything currently bind on pickup to have bind on pickup versions available in pvp as well. Currently zero PVP sets exist that match this as it's all bind on equip, but a huge number of PVE ones do.

markt84 · July 2015

I was worried about this, until I watched eso live. Now I think it's a great idea and am very excited to try it out

Tiniel_Celuris · July 2015

OK. After reading @Faulgor post, I started to change my mind... a little

I'm a full PvE player. I always hated PvP in games but to be honest, I tried a bit of PvP in Cyrodiil a few days ago and actually found it cool. It doesn't mean I will become a PvP player and that I like that part of the game, I just found it fun and maybe I'll return there from time to time.

I agree with what someone said earlier, that PvP is something I want to choose, not something I'm forced to endure.
So when the Imperial City DLC was announced, I was one of those players getting mad. I have nothing against PvP and I'm pleased for PvP players they have finally some contents. But the idea of mixing the two worlds and learning that you would loose all of your stones if an ennemy player kills you, that really disguted me.

So yeah, @Faulgor post reinsures me because if there are really ways of acquiring "safe" stones, I will just focus on the PvE part of IC and on those safe stones and will let PvP content for PvP players. It's pointless to prevent ZOE from trying new ideas after all. Don't be afraid PvE players, even if it's a PvP map, you have things to do and you will be to get some stones. And if I want to have some sessions of pure PvP in IC, I will just bank my stones if not used already. I will decide myself when I want to do some PvP.

Attorneyatlawl · July 2015

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

show previous quotes

MissBizz wrote: »

@ZOS_GinaBruno think you can find out if this is the case? With dungeons/pledges scaling to VR16, will mob dropped loot be able to be deconstructed for a chance at some of the new materials - in old dungeons scaled to VR16 and/or the new ones?

Yes. Dungeons will be scaled up to VR16, and the loot you receive from these dungeons will also drop up to VR16. Loot you receive from both old and new dungeons (the new ones being the White-Gold Tower and Imperial Prison) can be deconstructed for a chance at some of the new materials.

@ZOS_GinaBruno , just to confirm, this means that the random drop sets such as Relics of the Physician will be obtainable as vr16 as well then, right?

For example the sets with names like X "of the manbull" or "of thorns".

MissBizz · July 2015

@MaximusDargus

MaximusDargus wrote: »

show previous quotes

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

MissBizz wrote: »

@ZOS_GinaBruno think you can find out if this is the case? With dungeons/pledges scaling to VR16, will mob dropped loot be able to be deconstructed for a chance at some of the new materials - in old dungeons scaled to VR16 and/or the new ones?

Yes. Dungeons will be scaled up to VR16, and the loot you receive from these dungeons will also drop up to VR16. Loot you receive from both old and new dungeons (the new ones being the White-Gold Tower and Imperial Prison) can be deconstructed for a chance at some of the new materials.

Will the chance to obtain crafting materials from VR15 and VR16 items going to be on par with current chance to obtain materials from LVL1-VR14 items?

Or there is a plan to make VR15 VR16 decon droprate significantly lower than rest of items for any reason?

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

show previous quotes

MCMancub wrote: »

Will the drops for these materials be comparable to the Nirnhoned materials or will they be much easier to obtain?

The new materials are nowhere near as rare or difficult to obtain as Nirnhoned Trait materials. Though you don't obtain the new materials via crafting nodes, getting them through deconstruction is more comparable to other types of ingots. As you run around the Imperial City killing monsters, you'll get item drops like you would in a normal overland zone or dungeon. You can then deconstruct those for a chance to get the new materials.

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/2025150/#Comment_2025150

HeroOfNone · July 2015

MissBizz wrote: »

show previous quotes

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

MissBizz wrote: »

@ZOS_GinaBruno think you can find out if this is the case? With dungeons/pledges scaling to VR16, will mob dropped loot be able to be deconstructed for a chance at some of the new materials - in old dungeons scaled to VR16 and/or the new ones?

Yes. Dungeons will be scaled up to VR16, and the loot you receive from these dungeons will also drop up to VR16. Loot you receive from both old and new dungeons (the new ones being the White-Gold Tower and Imperial Prison) can be deconstructed for a chance at some of the new materials.

Thanks so much! That's what logic told me, but just wanted to be sure. @HeroOfNone

Good to hear, reminds me to link up our Friday discussion

helediron · July 2015

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

show previous quotes

KerinKor wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

First, we want to thank everyone for posting their feedback so far. As we mentioned on ESO Live last week, the new Tel Var Stone system is intended to be high risk, high reward, and will bring a lot of excitement to PvP. We encourage everyone to try it out on the PTS once it's available and let us know what you think! We'll be keeping a close eye on feedback, and will make adjustments if necessary without compromising the intent of the system.

So why gate PVE progression by items only obtainable by forced-PVPing?

That is 100% opposite of the reality in-game: PVP progression is gated by PVE requirements.

PVP players...
-Have to bust through the main story questline to get to the veteran zones.
-Have to bust through cadwell's silver to get to areas to level to vr14 as PVP XP is outright too low to do so with in any reasonable timeframe.
-Have to PVE repeatedly and daily, on multiple characters generally, with the Undaunted pledges to get the gold keys for bind on pickup sets that only come there but are widely applicable to builds game-wide in pve and PVP.
-Have to PVE trials and weeklies to get gear that only comes from them. This includes Veteran Dragonstar if using a Master weapon in your build, as they only come from there reliably, although a once-a-month or once-every-two-weeks campaign bag if you maintain a spot in the top 2% of the campaign can give you a low chance at one weapon of any type and any trait (unfeasible to get it from).
-Have to PVE repeatedly to get undaunted XP for the skill line or be left short 4-6% max hp/stam/magicka from the passive.

PVE players...
-Never have to step foot in Cyrodiil or the Imperial City and can just buy everything off a guild kiosk.

Somewhat exaggerated, narrow-minded list. Some items in that list are not much liked in PvE either and apply to both sides. PvP have skills useful in PvE.

But i think PvE has too much BoP items. The pledge rewards, master weapons and Elite Vendor gear could be added to TV shop for purchase.

Tavore1138 · July 2015

DDuke wrote: »

show previous quotes

SuraklinPrime wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

SuraklinPrime wrote: »

WolffenBloodseeker wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Faulgor wrote: »

Which is what makes me really sad, to be honest. Every time a developer tries to add something more hardcore or just different, people kick and scream until everything is brought back into line of the tried and tested play pen of mediocrity.
And then people wonder why the genre is stagnating.

Amen... Couldn't agree more.

Amen²...

When the devs do the same safe thing everyone complains that there are no reasons to play their game because it doesn't bring anything new and is equal to all other games, WHEN the devs try to break from it and do something different or hardcore or simple with the intention to create a risk vs reward environment in something you are doing then people scream that it is unfair, it is bad, it will fail, that the devs are forcing something different in them that they don't want to do, they complain saying why the devs are wasting time and money creating this thing when they can add more of the same content that i like and already takes 90% of the ENTIRE GAME.

If i don't like something i will simple NOT BUY IT, i'll not complain, i'll not even care! i'll focus on the things i like and be done with it...

Curious the that many of the voices liking this are: 'we liked this in other games but ESO is different please make it like those other games that we no longer play'.

Seems like you don't want something different you would like those of us who play this because it is different to conform to the same system as those games you are nostalgic for.

Its your right to feel that way just don't try and dress it up as some brave pioneering effort that we are trying to prevent.

WoW had Arenas, I didn't like them*. -> this should never be implemented in ESO, not even for players who do like Arenas.

*Note: I absolutely adored Arenas in WoW. Just stating this for sake of discussion.

That is your logic at the moment, and it's just not convincing, sorry.

I'm sure they'll have PvP content specifically tailored for your taste in the future, just not this time.

Vahrokh wrote: »

Another factor is, in those PvP games, everyone who subbed knew it was a true, all encompassing PvP game. Those who didn't like that, those who are "pure PvE players", simply did not sub to those PvP games ever so they wouldn't feel "robbed" or "cheated". Something that is happening with IC in ESO.

There is no MMO in history more successful than World of Warcraft, and that game is most renowned for its end game PvE. Yet, developers added in Battlegrounds, they added Arenas, they had open world PvP (Contested zones).
Did people complain about them, and demand these PvPers should get nothing?

The entire reason they developed BGs, was to have different style of PvP experience for people who didn't enjoy open world. The reason for creating Arenas was to provide different style of PvP experience for people who didn't enjoy BGs and/or open world.

The reason ESO gets Imperial City is to provide different type of PvP experience for people who don't enjoy the current "zerg zerg die (whatever) respawn zerg zerg". It's that simple, really.

No, my logic is not the reverse of the logic I just called out - I have never played another MMO so I can only base my opinions on what I have read, seen or been told.

I play this MMO for several reasons... TES connection is first, close following was that after playing the beta I found the PvP and other interactive parts to be designed in a goid way that seemed to avoid most of the things that put me off playing other MMOs. I enjoy PvP, as you know, and I am passably competent at it but would never claim to be great... on balance as I get IC for free I will probably go in but I will only be taking stones if it happens because people with stones engage me, I will not be hunting for targets to rob because I have no desire to ruin someone's day in that particular way... whereas I have no issue with killing in Cyro either in group or running solo because the only thing that gets hurt is someones ego...

That's perfectly ok, but the point is that it's not just about you or me and what we think. There's a bigger picture, where different people prefer different type of PvP.
The PvP you enjoy, it'll still be there, except now people have another option as well if they don't enjoy the type of PvP ESO currently offers.

Just like what WoW & other MMOs did by implementing different game modes, just what MOBAs* do by providing different map mechanics and so on.

This is good for the overall health of the game, and also provides you with another option, if you ever find yourself getting bored of the current ESO PvP.

*I'm surprised nobody has brought up MOBAs so far. In many, many MOBAs one of the most common map mechanics is killing the other players & taking the coins/whatever they've collected by killing NPCs.

I know, that, I can only express what I think and what I think I would enjoy - really wasn't expecting to start a 24 page thread.

ZOS have to distil it all and come up with whatever works best for their game as they will live/die by the results and have a far more real risk/reward model here than any of us playing .

But I wanted to enjoy this because it's the first new content for ages and the original announce promised a bunch that seemed aimed at everyone:

All content is available to players that are level 10 and up
A brand new PvP/PvE space, including the six Imperial City Districts
New quests and key characters within the Imperial City
One new Imperial City PvP Public Dungeon: The Imperial Sewers
Two new PvE Imperial City group dungeons with Normal and Veteran versions: White-Gold Tower and Imperial City Prison
The Tel Var Stone system
23 completely new Veteran Rank 16 item sets, only available in Imperial City
Treasure Vaults that contain new Veteran Rank 16 set jewelry and a chance for even rarer finds
Xivkyn racial motif style
New collectibles only available in Imperial City (pets, polymorphs, and a costume)

Now seriously look at that and tell me it isn't written to appeal to people other than the full on hardcore PvP player?

And yet because of that one system, if we're understanding it, a lot of the other stuff becomes moot unless you either play the TV system or simply wait for stuff to go into the guild stores. Which would be a shame.

Anyway - still hopeful they will get feedback that will lead to something where you guys get your adrenaline rush and I can still get my fun.

Takllin · July 2015

It's rather simple to fix this system and make it work for both PvE and PvPers...just make it so you either lose a certain ratio of your stones, or the person who kills you is given a certain amount of stones based upon the TV the player you killed has.

I'm a hardcore PvPer, and I know many more like me who do not like this system at all.

Cuyler · July 2015

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

show previous quotes

MissBizz wrote: »

@ZOS_GinaBruno think you can find out if this is the case? With dungeons/pledges scaling to VR16, will mob dropped loot be able to be deconstructed for a chance at some of the new materials - in old dungeons scaled to VR16 and/or the new ones?

Yes. Dungeons will be scaled up to VR16, and the loot you receive from these dungeons will also drop up to VR16. Loot you receive from both old and new dungeons (the new ones being the White-Gold Tower and Imperial Prison) can be deconstructed for a chance at some of the new materials.

@ZOS_GinaBruno are any trials planned to increase to v16 as well? or will these remain at the current level?

notimetocare · July 2015

sparafucilsarwb17_ESO wrote: »

This is a horrible idea and just a grieving system. TV stones should not be lost when you get killed. This system is going to cause a lot of rage.

Players will rage at anything added. So who cares?

Vahrokh · July 2015

DDuke wrote: »

show previous quotes

SuraklinPrime wrote: »

WolffenBloodseeker wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Faulgor wrote: »

Which is what makes me really sad, to be honest. Every time a developer tries to add something more hardcore or just different, people kick and scream until everything is brought back into line of the tried and tested play pen of mediocrity.
And then people wonder why the genre is stagnating.

Amen... Couldn't agree more.

Amen²...

When the devs do the same safe thing everyone complains that there are no reasons to play their game because it doesn't bring anything new and is equal to all other games, WHEN the devs try to break from it and do something different or hardcore or simple with the intention to create a risk vs reward environment in something you are doing then people scream that it is unfair, it is bad, it will fail, that the devs are forcing something different in them that they don't want to do, they complain saying why the devs are wasting time and money creating this thing when they can add more of the same content that i like and already takes 90% of the ENTIRE GAME.

If i don't like something i will simple NOT BUY IT, i'll not complain, i'll not even care! i'll focus on the things i like and be done with it...

Curious the that many of the voices liking this are: 'we liked this in other games but ESO is different please make it like those other games that we no longer play'.

Seems like you don't want something different you would like those of us who play this because it is different to conform to the same system as those games you are nostalgic for.

Its your right to feel that way just don't try and dress it up as some brave pioneering effort that we are trying to prevent.

WoW had Arenas, I didn't like them*. -> this should never be implemented in ESO, not even for players who do like Arenas.

*Note: I absolutely adored Arenas in WoW. Just stating this for sake of discussion.

That is your logic at the moment, and it's just not convincing, sorry.

I'm sure they'll have PvP content specifically tailored for your taste in the future, just not this time.
show previous quotes

Vahrokh wrote: »

Another factor is, in those PvP games, everyone who subbed knew it was a true, all encompassing PvP game. Those who didn't like that, those who are "pure PvE players", simply did not sub to those PvP games ever so they wouldn't feel "robbed" or "cheated". Something that is happening with IC in ESO.

There is no MMO in history more successful than World of Warcraft, and that game is most renowned for its end game PvE. Yet, developers added in Battlegrounds, they added Arenas, they had open world PvP (Contested zones).
Did people complain about them, and demand these PvPers should get nothing?

The entire reason they developed BGs, was to have different style of PvP experience for people who didn't enjoy open world. The reason for creating Arenas was to provide different style of PvP experience for people who didn't enjoy BGs and/or open world.

The reason ESO gets Imperial City is to provide different type of PvP experience for people who don't enjoy the current "zerg zerg die (whatever) respawn zerg zerg". It's that simple, really.

Back at my time in WoW, I re-used some PvE items (rings etc.), however PvP gear was achievable in PvP and respeccing took about 10 seconds. In ESO it's a pain.

Takllin · July 2015

notimetocare wrote: »

show previous quotes

sparafucilsarwb17_ESO wrote: »

This is a horrible idea and just a grieving system. TV stones should not be lost when you get killed. This system is going to cause a lot of rage.

Players will rage at anything added. So who cares?

Some players will rage at anything added. This system has a large majority of players unhappy with it, enough so that people will stop playing. We care because we really enjoy this game and we don't want them to run it into the ground.

DDuke · July 2015

Vahrokh wrote: »

show previous quotes

DDuke wrote: »

SuraklinPrime wrote: »

WolffenBloodseeker wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Faulgor wrote: »

Which is what makes me really sad, to be honest. Every time a developer tries to add something more hardcore or just different, people kick and scream until everything is brought back into line of the tried and tested play pen of mediocrity.
And then people wonder why the genre is stagnating.

Amen... Couldn't agree more.

Amen²...

When the devs do the same safe thing everyone complains that there are no reasons to play their game because it doesn't bring anything new and is equal to all other games, WHEN the devs try to break from it and do something different or hardcore or simple with the intention to create a risk vs reward environment in something you are doing then people scream that it is unfair, it is bad, it will fail, that the devs are forcing something different in them that they don't want to do, they complain saying why the devs are wasting time and money creating this thing when they can add more of the same content that i like and already takes 90% of the ENTIRE GAME.

If i don't like something i will simple NOT BUY IT, i'll not complain, i'll not even care! i'll focus on the things i like and be done with it...

Curious the that many of the voices liking this are: 'we liked this in other games but ESO is different please make it like those other games that we no longer play'.

Seems like you don't want something different you would like those of us who play this because it is different to conform to the same system as those games you are nostalgic for.

Its your right to feel that way just don't try and dress it up as some brave pioneering effort that we are trying to prevent.

WoW had Arenas, I didn't like them*. -> this should never be implemented in ESO, not even for players who do like Arenas.

*Note: I absolutely adored Arenas in WoW. Just stating this for sake of discussion.

That is your logic at the moment, and it's just not convincing, sorry.

I'm sure they'll have PvP content specifically tailored for your taste in the future, just not this time.

Vahrokh wrote: »

Another factor is, in those PvP games, everyone who subbed knew it was a true, all encompassing PvP game. Those who didn't like that, those who are "pure PvE players", simply did not sub to those PvP games ever so they wouldn't feel "robbed" or "cheated". Something that is happening with IC in ESO.

There is no MMO in history more successful than World of Warcraft, and that game is most renowned for its end game PvE. Yet, developers added in Battlegrounds, they added Arenas, they had open world PvP (Contested zones).
Did people complain about them, and demand these PvPers should get nothing?

The entire reason they developed BGs, was to have different style of PvP experience for people who didn't enjoy open world. The reason for creating Arenas was to provide different style of PvP experience for people who didn't enjoy BGs and/or open world.

The reason ESO gets Imperial City is to provide different type of PvP experience for people who don't enjoy the current "zerg zerg die (whatever) respawn zerg zerg". It's that simple, really.

Back at my time in WoW, I re-used some PvE items (rings etc.), however PvP gear was achievable in PvP and respeccing took about 10 seconds. In ESO it's a pain.

What are you talking about?

In ESO, you can get the top tier PvP gear the moment you hit VR14, just purchase it off a store - done.

If anything, it should be harder to get.

In WoW, you actually had to be a decent player to get that gear & work for it (High Warlord was no joke back in the days, nor was ranking high in Arena).

RustedValor · July 2015

Takllin wrote: »

show previous quotes

notimetocare wrote: »

sparafucilsarwb17_ESO wrote: »

This is a horrible idea and just a grieving system. TV stones should not be lost when you get killed. This system is going to cause a lot of rage.

Players will rage at anything added. So who cares?

Some players will rage at anything added. This system has a large majority of players unhappy with it, enough so that people will stop playing. We care because we really enjoy this game and we don't want them to run it into the ground.

There is absolutely no proof that the large majority of players are strongly opposed to this system. Its about a 50/50 split among people who post on the forums. The free market will be the true decider in the end.

DDuke · July 2015

Takllin wrote: »

show previous quotes

notimetocare wrote: »

sparafucilsarwb17_ESO wrote: »

This is a horrible idea and just a grieving system. TV stones should not be lost when you get killed. This system is going to cause a lot of rage.

Players will rage at anything added. So who cares?

Some players will rage at anything added. This system has a large majority of players unhappy with it, enough so that people will stop playing. We care because we really enjoy this game and we don't want them to run it into the ground.

Oh look, another person using the word "majority" without truly understanding what it means.

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/196972/do-you-plan-on-getting-the-imperial-city-dlc/p1

With 317 votes, we can establish with 99% confidence that between 42.5-57.5% (50% with 7.5% margin of error) of people will purchase this DLC.

This evidence points to quite the opposite.

Kobaal · July 2015

PvE players:

PvP Gankers:

Vahrokh · July 2015

DDuke wrote: »

show previous quotes

Vahrokh wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

SuraklinPrime wrote: »

WolffenBloodseeker wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Faulgor wrote: »

Which is what makes me really sad, to be honest. Every time a developer tries to add something more hardcore or just different, people kick and scream until everything is brought back into line of the tried and tested play pen of mediocrity.
And then people wonder why the genre is stagnating.

Amen... Couldn't agree more.

Amen²...

When the devs do the same safe thing everyone complains that there are no reasons to play their game because it doesn't bring anything new and is equal to all other games, WHEN the devs try to break from it and do something different or hardcore or simple with the intention to create a risk vs reward environment in something you are doing then people scream that it is unfair, it is bad, it will fail, that the devs are forcing something different in them that they don't want to do, they complain saying why the devs are wasting time and money creating this thing when they can add more of the same content that i like and already takes 90% of the ENTIRE GAME.

If i don't like something i will simple NOT BUY IT, i'll not complain, i'll not even care! i'll focus on the things i like and be done with it...

Curious the that many of the voices liking this are: 'we liked this in other games but ESO is different please make it like those other games that we no longer play'.

Seems like you don't want something different you would like those of us who play this because it is different to conform to the same system as those games you are nostalgic for.

Its your right to feel that way just don't try and dress it up as some brave pioneering effort that we are trying to prevent.

WoW had Arenas, I didn't like them*. -> this should never be implemented in ESO, not even for players who do like Arenas.

*Note: I absolutely adored Arenas in WoW. Just stating this for sake of discussion.

That is your logic at the moment, and it's just not convincing, sorry.

I'm sure they'll have PvP content specifically tailored for your taste in the future, just not this time.

Vahrokh wrote: »

Another factor is, in those PvP games, everyone who subbed knew it was a true, all encompassing PvP game. Those who didn't like that, those who are "pure PvE players", simply did not sub to those PvP games ever so they wouldn't feel "robbed" or "cheated". Something that is happening with IC in ESO.

There is no MMO in history more successful than World of Warcraft, and that game is most renowned for its end game PvE. Yet, developers added in Battlegrounds, they added Arenas, they had open world PvP (Contested zones).
Did people complain about them, and demand these PvPers should get nothing?

The entire reason they developed BGs, was to have different style of PvP experience for people who didn't enjoy open world. The reason for creating Arenas was to provide different style of PvP experience for people who didn't enjoy BGs and/or open world.

The reason ESO gets Imperial City is to provide different type of PvP experience for people who don't enjoy the current "zerg zerg die (whatever) respawn zerg zerg". It's that simple, really.

Back at my time in WoW, I re-used some PvE items (rings etc.), however PvP gear was achievable in PvP and respeccing took about 10 seconds. In ESO it's a pain.

What are you talking about?

In ESO, you can get the top tier PvP gear the moment you hit VR14, just purchase it off a store - done.

If anything, it should be harder to get.

In WoW, you actually had to be a decent player to get that gear & work for it (High Warlord was no joke back in the days, nor was ranking high in Arena).

I am talking about in WAR all I had to do in order to PvP, was to just enter the RvR lake and that's it. No respecs, no re-gear nothing.
Same for EvE, but had to switch some modules. Or, smarter, just have PvP fitted ships in hangar to instant-use and then hop into FW / corp home system in 0.0.

In WoW I would switch gear with one addon (Wardrobe?), I would switch to PvP spec with 1 click (I don't recall the addon name) and voilà.

In ESO I need to teleport to another region and client memory leaks make the game crash after 3-4 zone changes (and slow down the client before that). Then I need to go find the NPC, then clear spec (I also respec health and magicka), then click skills, stats, morphs. So unnecessarily tiresome!

Also, in WoW but also in SWTOR I could play in a premade or even mini-premade (that is 3-4 players out of 6) or I could go in and solo at leisure (Arathi basin) or I could hook up a friend and do 2v2 arena.
In WAR we didn't have arena but had 4v4 to 12v12 (if I recall correctly) instanced PvP.

In ESO it's loading screen => click click click^2 => loading screen => loading screen => run run run => wallop wallop wallop => damn got sniped / damn gate bugged / damn zerg lagged directly in my face => back to loads kms away.

DDuke · July 2015

Vahrokh wrote: »

show previous quotes

DDuke wrote: »

Vahrokh wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

SuraklinPrime wrote: »

WolffenBloodseeker wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Faulgor wrote: »

Which is what makes me really sad, to be honest. Every time a developer tries to add something more hardcore or just different, people kick and scream until everything is brought back into line of the tried and tested play pen of mediocrity.
And then people wonder why the genre is stagnating.

Amen... Couldn't agree more.

Amen²...

When the devs do the same safe thing everyone complains that there are no reasons to play their game because it doesn't bring anything new and is equal to all other games, WHEN the devs try to break from it and do something different or hardcore or simple with the intention to create a risk vs reward environment in something you are doing then people scream that it is unfair, it is bad, it will fail, that the devs are forcing something different in them that they don't want to do, they complain saying why the devs are wasting time and money creating this thing when they can add more of the same content that i like and already takes 90% of the ENTIRE GAME.

If i don't like something i will simple NOT BUY IT, i'll not complain, i'll not even care! i'll focus on the things i like and be done with it...

Curious the that many of the voices liking this are: 'we liked this in other games but ESO is different please make it like those other games that we no longer play'.

Seems like you don't want something different you would like those of us who play this because it is different to conform to the same system as those games you are nostalgic for.

Its your right to feel that way just don't try and dress it up as some brave pioneering effort that we are trying to prevent.

WoW had Arenas, I didn't like them*. -> this should never be implemented in ESO, not even for players who do like Arenas.

*Note: I absolutely adored Arenas in WoW. Just stating this for sake of discussion.

That is your logic at the moment, and it's just not convincing, sorry.

I'm sure they'll have PvP content specifically tailored for your taste in the future, just not this time.

Vahrokh wrote: »

Another factor is, in those PvP games, everyone who subbed knew it was a true, all encompassing PvP game. Those who didn't like that, those who are "pure PvE players", simply did not sub to those PvP games ever so they wouldn't feel "robbed" or "cheated". Something that is happening with IC in ESO.

There is no MMO in history more successful than World of Warcraft, and that game is most renowned for its end game PvE. Yet, developers added in Battlegrounds, they added Arenas, they had open world PvP (Contested zones).
Did people complain about them, and demand these PvPers should get nothing?

The entire reason they developed BGs, was to have different style of PvP experience for people who didn't enjoy open world. The reason for creating Arenas was to provide different style of PvP experience for people who didn't enjoy BGs and/or open world.

The reason ESO gets Imperial City is to provide different type of PvP experience for people who don't enjoy the current "zerg zerg die (whatever) respawn zerg zerg". It's that simple, really.

Back at my time in WoW, I re-used some PvE items (rings etc.), however PvP gear was achievable in PvP and respeccing took about 10 seconds. In ESO it's a pain.

What are you talking about?

In ESO, you can get the top tier PvP gear the moment you hit VR14, just purchase it off a store - done.

If anything, it should be harder to get.

In WoW, you actually had to be a decent player to get that gear & work for it (High Warlord was no joke back in the days, nor was ranking high in Arena).

I am talking about in WAR all I had to do in order to PvP, was to just enter the RvR lake and that's it. No respecs, no re-gear nothing.
Same for EvE, but had to switch some modules. Or, smarter, just have PvP fitted ships in hangar to instant-use and then hop into FW / corp home system in 0.0.

In WoW I would switch gear with one addon (Wardrobe?), I would switch to PvP spec with 1 click (I don't recall the addon name) and voilà.

In ESO I need to teleport to another region and client memory leaks make the game crash after 3-4 zone changes (and slow down the client before that). Then I need to go find the NPC, then clear spec (I also respec health and magicka), then click skills, stats, morphs. So unnecessarily tiresome!

Also, in WoW but also in SWTOR I could play in a premade or even mini-premade (that is 3-4 players out of 6) or I could go in and solo at leisure (Arathi basin) or I could hook up a friend and do 2v2 arena.
In WAR we didn't have arena but had 4v4 to 12v12 (if I recall correctly) instanced PvP.

In ESO it's loading screen => click click click^2 => loading screen => loading screen => run run run => wallop wallop wallop => damn got sniped / damn gate bugged / damn zerg lagged directly in my face => back to loads kms away.

Yes, and I'm not necessarily even disagreeing with you, but aren't these all concerns unrelated to Imperial City & the implementation of this new game mode (Tel Var stones)?

Takllin · July 2015

DDuke wrote: »

show previous quotes

Takllin wrote: »

notimetocare wrote: »

sparafucilsarwb17_ESO wrote: »

This is a horrible idea and just a grieving system. TV stones should not be lost when you get killed. This system is going to cause a lot of rage.

Players will rage at anything added. So who cares?

Some players will rage at anything added. This system has a large majority of players unhappy with it, enough so that people will stop playing. We care because we really enjoy this game and we don't want them to run it into the ground.

Oh look, another person using the word "majority" without truly understanding what it means.

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/196972/do-you-plan-on-getting-the-imperial-city-dlc/p1

With 317 votes, we can establish with 99% confidence that between 42.5-57.5% (50% with 7.5% margin of error) of people will purchase this DLC.

This evidence points to quite the opposite.

Oh look, another person who is making an *** of themselves...

Just because they purchase the DLC doesn't mean they are happy with the Tel Var Stones system....because last time I checked that poll was only asking if they would purchase the DLC, not if they are happy with the Tel Var Stone system.

I'm keeping my subscription so I don't have to buy it, but I'm not happy with the system.

I'll even revise what I've said just for you:
From what I've read and heard, this system has a large majority of players whom unhappy with it, enough so that some people will stop playing.

Hop off and don't come across as so condescending, it will get you more respect from your fellow players and a lot further in life.

Vahrokh · July 2015

DDuke wrote: »

Yes, and I'm not necessarily even disagreeing with you, but aren't these all concerns unrelated to Imperial City & the implementation of this new game mode (Tel Var stones)?

It is related, because even as player who in principle would not be opposed to IC and stuff, I find too much expensive and annoying stuff to spend my days teleporting around and respeccing. Depending on my guild's runs I'd need to respec 3 times a day, that's beyond a tolerable waste of time and money.

Like me, who knows how many others don't go in PvP because they are committed to their guilds trials etc. and can't respec all the time so they just give up PvPing.

Come IC, "give up PvPing" is still an option... but it's a very annoying option, because after all I am in this game since Jan 2014 and paying sub since day 0 and yet I am meant to pass over the one expansion we got to date?

I could ignore all and go in with PvE spec and gear. However I'd be a drag on my guild mates... and teams will be smaller, therefore I'll really drag them down.

The net result of the logistics and everything forms a feeling of disappointment.
Apparently I am not alone.

DDuke · July 2015

Takllin wrote: »

show previous quotes

DDuke wrote: »

Takllin wrote: »

notimetocare wrote: »

sparafucilsarwb17_ESO wrote: »

This is a horrible idea and just a grieving system. TV stones should not be lost when you get killed. This system is going to cause a lot of rage.

Players will rage at anything added. So who cares?

Some players will rage at anything added. This system has a large majority of players unhappy with it, enough so that people will stop playing. We care because we really enjoy this game and we don't want them to run it into the ground.

Oh look, another person using the word "majority" without truly understanding what it means.

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/196972/do-you-plan-on-getting-the-imperial-city-dlc/p1

With 317 votes, we can establish with 99% confidence that between 42.5-57.5% (50% with 7.5% margin of error) of people will purchase this DLC.

This evidence points to quite the opposite.

Oh look, another person who is making an *** of themselves...

Just because they purchase the DLC doesn't mean they are happy with the Tel Var Stones system....because last time I checked that poll was only asking if they would purchase the DLC, not if they are happy with the Tel Var Stone system.

I'm keeping my subscription so I don't have to buy it, but I'm not happy with the system.

I'll even revise what I've said just for you:
From what I've read and heard, this system has a large majority of players whom unhappy with it, enough so that some people will stop playing.

Hop off and don't come across as so condescending, it will get you more respect from your fellow players and a lot further in life.

I'm not saying majority like it, I don't have data for that. But neither do you.

What I'm saying is that people clearly aren't so upset, if they're still willing to purchase the DLC (and I'd bet many of those who voted "No" will still purchase it, as those votes are used to protest as well).

But if you want factual data, let's see...

Poll option 1: I will buy - I like what I have heard so far 42%

That is anywhere between 34.5% (over 1/3rd of the population) to 49.5% with the 7.5% margin of error that likes the system.

Poll options 2, 3 & 4 combined (all that want unspecified changes) 33%

That is between 25.5%-40.5% that want changes (unspecified, might not be related to TV stones)