Small scale pvp is everywhere in Cyrodiil, just don't follow the zerg or go to a keep siege. Now you can end these threads.

I remember when we played DAoC we have small battlegrounds for lower-level RvR. Those zone had lesser 'stuff' in them (keep, towers, etc) but had more room for straight out fighing and less spaces so fight were occuring more often.

Had tons of fun in them. Would roll alts all the time to play in those zones.(even though I have maxed-out characters for real RvR)

Something similar with Warhammer Online (outside BG).

Pirhana7_ESO wrote: »

Small scale pvp is everywhere in Cyrodiil, just don't follow the zerg or go to a keep siege. Now you can end these threads.

Your logic is flawed.

People don't always want to run around for 30 minutes looking for a fair fight, only to get sieged, then zerged by a 24 man raid. You obviously love Cyrodiil, so you could stay there, while other play both Battlegrounds and Cyro. Seems like a good trade off doesn't it? People doing what they like to do.

originalbars wrote: »

Arena or BG sounds great..

Smaller scale pvp is what alot of competitive teams are looking for, and will keep have them coming back to play ESO..

This perfectly sums it up.

ESO doesn't have any form of competitive PvP at the moment. That is a fact.

With small scale PvP we usually mean competitive PvP. Not random "smaller skirmishes" in Cyrodiil with no objective or goal.

Competitive PvP is where your skill matters (sportsmanlike), not how many players you brought to the fight. Cyrodiil is not in any shape or form sportsmanlike PvP. I'm very PvP oriented in all games I play, even though I do enjoy end-game PvE as well.

I played WoW for almost 8 years and spent about half of it in arenas and battlegrounds and the other half in the games hardest raid dungeons. As much fun as the PvE is at the moment, Cyrodiil cannot and will not keep players like myself in the game. We need some form of competitive PvP. Arenas and Battlegrounds simply are the easiest ways to implement this kind of competitive PvP. My time in Cyrodiil has been limited in the last year because it's more of "just for fun" kind of PvP. I don't get enjoyment out of it the same way I get from Arenas and Battlegrounds, half the time there's no PvP involved. Capturing keeps and resources is more like tower defense, it's a sad excuse for PvP.

You won't see players like myself in Cyrodiil anyway, giving us actual competitive and sportsmanlike form of PvP is not skin off your backs. It's something that will give us content we actually enjoy, that'll keep us in the game and thus giving the game a broader customer base. You can keep your "massive scale PvP". I don't want to have anything to do with it.

You want us to go play another game? That's what we will do if we don't have content we enjoy, but don't come crying when the dev teams budget numbers plummet and the player base keeps getting thinner and thinner.

I am still waiting for the 3v3v3 arena they showed us and PLAYED in about 8 Months ago.

Dukegaming wrote: »

You can't copy/paste ideas from other MMO's and expect them to work. If ESO adds some sort of small scale PvP feature, it will be nothing like you expected. Look at the way crafting turned out, or how Cyrodiil works and how there are siege weapons and keeps to capture. Arenas may not be so much of an Arena scenario (if thats what they even end up calling them), defiantly not the likes of another MMO. Since there are three separate alliances to consider, I only see this being messy. Dueling does sound pretty basic, however I see it being within an alliance (makes more sense that way due to the fact the three alliances are in a war, not 1v1 dueling one another to victory).

We are not asking for a copy/paste of another Arena system. We are asking for a Competitive & Ranked, Small Scale PvP that includes some of the more successful features of other similar systems.

And how would it be messy with other factions? It would be pretty simple considering what they have already done with Cyrodiil. Its 1:100th the scale.

p_tsakirisb16_ESO wrote: »

We do not want arena style PVP. There are other games they provide this, go play them.

Cyrodiil provides enough small and large scale battles for everyone. And Imperial City is due some time in the future for closer combat area similar to Darkness Falls in DAOC

I am curious, who is this 'we' you speak of?

And the whole point of this is we love this game, and we don't want to have to go to another game to get a feature that should be in the game anyways. I will never understand why people like 'you' want to prevent something good from happening for other people even though it will not affect you at all. And the truth is it will probably affect you in a positive way by bringing more people into the game and giving the game economy moar vitality.

inMorsAeterna wrote: »

I for one am patiently waiting to see a small scale pvp arena brought into this game. I would love to see a ranked arena format along the lines of 1v1, 3v3, 5v5, 8v8, etc. Bring in seasons. Bring in special titles. Give the hardcore competitive pvp players a place to go nuts. Something like this would offer unlimited replay value to the pvp community.

I'm interested in what the rest of the community and developers think about this idea. What are your concerns? What do you want to see happen? @ZOS_JessicaFolsom @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_BrianWheeler @ZOS_PaulSage

Here are a few reasons why I think we need a Ranked Arena:

1.To bring in more players. This would bolster the ranks of Cyro, PvE, and small scale Pvp alike.
2. During peak hours PvP is unplayable because of server lag. It would give us a lag free place to PvP while Cyro is laggy and broken.
3. It would help break up the monotony of PvDoor.
4. Good small scale PvP is hard to come by in Cyro because of the tendency to Zerg. That being said, Zerging is fun; but so is a 5v5.
5. There is no reason to limit your game so much. Different people like different game modes; by limiting your game modes, you're limiting your customer base.
6. Arena is a great way to test your personal skill.
7. For competitive players, being ranked on your performance through Ladders / Seasons is very rewarding.
8. Because a lot of us find it fun, and we love ESO. We don't want to have to go to another game to get what we want.

Rebuttal to people saying Battle Grounds is a bad idea.
Post also quoted below:

inMorsAeterna wrote: »

Many great points have been brought up and I would like to address them.

1. Battle grounds is boring.
a. The beauty of BG is that not everyone has to play, and the people who want to play will love it.
b. This is also good because it will leave lots of pop in Cyro for RvRvR.

2. Battle grounds will kill Cyro.
a. Having BG will bring population to the game, therefor bolstering Cyro and PvE at the same time.
b. As you can see many people do not like BG, that shows you Cyro will have a loyal player base.

3. Battle grounds caused class imbalance in Wow.
a. Wow has 275% more classes then ESO and no limits on the skills that can be used, obviously exacerbating the balancing issue. Balancing 4 classes is not nearly as difficult, and will allow for a more transparent balancing of classes.
b. This game already has made great progress on balancing classes, and seems that it is well on its way to becoming balanced.

4. We want the Devs to fix Cyro, not make a new form of PvP.
a. They made a BG for E3 in no time. All the mechanics are already in place. I doubt it would be an enormous job to implement a BG.
b. By having alternative forms of PvP they could potentially reduce server load on Cyro.

---

All in all, there is absolutely no absolute reason why a BG shouldn't eventually be put into ESO.

---

And the best reply in this thread goes to @Aerieth

Aerieth wrote: »

ESO doesn't have any form of competitive PvP at the moment. That is a fact.

With small scale PvP we usually mean competitive PvP. Not random "smaller skirmishes" in Cyrodiil with no objective or goal.

Competitive PvP is where your skill matters (sportsmanlike), not how many players you brought to the fight. Cyrodiil is not in any shape or form sportsmanlike PvP. I'm very PvP oriented in all games I play, even though I do enjoy end-game PvE as well.

I played WoW for almost 8 years and spent about half of it in arenas and battlegrounds and the other half in the games hardest raid dungeons. As much fun as the PvE is at the moment, Cyrodiil cannot and will not keep players like myself in the game. We need some form of competitive PvP. Arenas and Battlegrounds simply are the easiest ways to implement this kind of competitive PvP. My time in Cyrodiil has been limited in the last year because it's more of "just for fun" kind of PvP. I don't get enjoyment out of it the same way I get from Arenas and Battlegrounds, half the time there's no PvP involved. Capturing keeps and resources is more like tower defense, it's a sad excuse for PvP.

You won't see players like myself in Cyrodiil anyway, giving us actual competitive and sportsmanlike form of PvP is not skin off your backs. It's something that will give us content we actually enjoy, that'll keep us in the game and thus giving the game a broader customer base. You can keep your "massive scale PvP". I don't want to have anything to do with it.

You want us to go play another game? That's what we will do if we don't have content we enjoy, but don't come crying when the dev teams budget numbers plummet and the player base keeps getting thinner and thinner.

Give this man a cookie!!

---

The more options the better, but make rewards just as good in any PvP choice, be it Arena or Battlegrounds.

[Moderator Note: Edited quote to match moderated version]

Aerieth wrote: »

Dukegaming wrote: »

You can't copy/paste ideas from other MMO's and expect them to work. If ESO adds some sort of small scale PvP feature, it will be nothing like you expected. Look at the way crafting turned out, or how Cyrodiil works and how there are siege weapons and keeps to capture. Arenas may not be so much of an Arena scenario (if thats what they even end up calling them), defiantly not the likes of another MMO. Since there are three separate alliances to consider, I only see this being messy. Dueling does sound pretty basic, however I see it being within an alliance (makes more sense that way due to the fact the three alliances are in a war, not 1v1 dueling one another to victory).

The gaming industry says hello...
Game devs have been copying ideas from other games since there have been games to copy from and with great success. If something works, use it. There's no need to re-invent the wheel. Just give us the wheel and we'll be happy.

Though, in the end, I don't care what the competitive and sportsmanlike "small scale" PvP is as long as it is just that. They can put a TES spin to it if that works better for them.

Yep...considering the Champion System was very heavily inspired by EQ's Alternate Advancement system as per ZOS's own comments

As long as it doesn't grant AP, or not very much anyway, it'd be great to see this. That way the best teams couldn't farm noobs and playing in Cyrodiil would be necessary if you want to gain ranks or ap to spend. It would actually be a decent place to try out all the niche builds I have in my head. Hey Atla =P

I tried to wade through the quotes of quotes of quotes - so my apologies if this is misattributed

SHADOW2KK wrote: »

Its funny how people can complain about something that doesn't even impact how THEY would play the game.
lol

I advocate for instanced smaller PvP because it would effect how I play the game.

I'm new to MMORPG in general, I don't enjoy mass strategy games, I am somewhat curious about PvP but I'm not a min/maxer and I don't have great reflexes and moves as a player.

So now, when I come into Cyrodiil, if I meet truce/friendly players from other alliances, I live. If I meet unfriendly ones, I'm pretty much toast. No middle ground, no opportunity for a learning curve.

I'd like to see instanced raids for farms or other resources (an "arena" has NO appeal at all to me, and doesn't make sense in the context of this game anyway). I would try a few of those. Maybe I would get excited about larger scale PvP. Maybe not.

Just a way to tempt players like me

Pirhana7_ESO wrote: »

Small scale pvp is everywhere in Cyrodiil, just don't follow the zerg or go to a keep siege. Now you can end these threads.

If by "everywhere", you mean you can wander around Cyrodiil for 30 minutes without seeing a single enemy, or even an angry torchbug, then yeah... small scale PvP is everywhere.

.

+1

inMorsAeterna wrote: »

I think what Shadow was implying is that Small Scale Competitive PvP should not affect the players who do not want to participate in it (in a negative way.) So why are they trying to sabotage the chance of it for the people who would LOVE to have this in-game?

I am also curious why you think an Arena or Battlegrounds would not make sense for this game.

I'm not clear on how smaller instances of PvP would negatively impact large scale PvP. I got the impression that it would be good for the game for folks to spread out among different options - the more options - the more spread - the less lag. Everyone wins.

Well, that's the hope, anyway.

As for the Arena idea (I'm not sure what battlegrounds are), the idea of a recreation style "two people/groups enter, only one leave" - that doesn't make sense. In a world with actual war, stylized war (i.e. sports - of sorts) has less place.

I pictured it (small instanced PvP) happening in ways that would be part of the larger "war" story - instances that were resources to be taken. Ah, one example:

3 4-person groups - one from each alliance - to "rescue" a farm/town that has been taken over by daedric cultists who are attempting massive sacrifice. They have mystically blocked off access to the town/farm and only a stealth crew can get in. There may be mini objectives within this scenario. Say points awarded for each NPC freed, and some of the NPCs are actually guards (say v5 or v14 or something). As well, there are some sort of rune/stones, and for each one captured/freed by the team, they get to control access to the "site" long enough to allow another 4-man team in (or something).