ESO Needs Small Scale PvP.

Romo

Let's see.

1. Pre-made team.
2. All at V14.
3. All at current max reachable CPs.
4. All FOTM.
5. All min Maxed.
6. Everyone on Vent.
7. Everyone using the team required mods.

Check good to go.

Real "competitive" ... now lets find a pug group of lowbies to stomp so we get on the all important lol leaderboard.

Ah... no to the OPs question... just NO.

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Also, has anyone seen an MMO with balanced, good team matching skills? Or isn't the majority of the time pre-made teams rolotflaffin' at pugs who got teamed against them?

Glurin

My experience, pretty much this:

newtinmpls

Glurin wrote: »

My experience, pretty much this:

Sigh....

In Cyrodiil last night (or sometime within the last 72h - it's a blur).

Group of non-vet DC wandering after skyshards. At one point we run across an AD player, who sees us from a distance, hightails it and rides away. We tried using 'wave' and 'bow' emotes (seen occasionally as 'i'm not hostile to you' messages) but no reply. Then in one of the delves, it becomes obvious we have an AD NB following along (because really who else would be drifting in and out of invisibility). A couple of our party do the 'bow' and 'salute' thing; no reply from him but we kept seeing him occasionally so apparently he was cool with us not feeing a need to be hostile.

Up out of the delve and some v14Templar (judging from the spell effects - I really didn't have time to notice much) starts blasting the crap out of us. We dindn't have much reaction time - 3 of the four of us dead in ... well pretty much seconds. I happened to be the last person standing (literally just standing; didn't get my act together for an emote, which probably wouldn't have worked - in terms of she probably would have continued to act like a jerk). So about three more shots and we are all dead.

The funny-in-a-way deal with this was that while we were in the delve, DC lost a lot of ground and we'd probably not have made it "back" without dying on the way - so she just sorta speeded up our "exit".

But part of the reason I'm all for instanced PvP is that the jerks who just can't live without attacking someone can find themselves a target-and-victim rich environment.

Attorneyatlawl

newtinmpls wrote: »

Glurin wrote: »

My experience, pretty much this:

Sigh....

In Cyrodiil last night (or sometime within the last 72h - it's a blur).

Group of non-vet DC wandering after skyshards. At one point we run across an AD player, who sees us from a distance, hightails it and rides away. We tried using 'wave' and 'bow' emotes (seen occasionally as 'i'm not hostile to you' messages) but no reply. Then in one of the delves, it becomes obvious we have an AD NB following along (because really who else would be drifting in and out of invisibility). A couple of our party do the 'bow' and 'salute' thing; no reply from him but we kept seeing him occasionally so apparently he was cool with us not feeing a need to be hostile.

Up out of the delve and some v14Templar (judging from the spell effects - I really didn't have time to notice much) starts blasting the crap out of us. We dindn't have much reaction time - 3 of the four of us dead in ... well pretty much seconds. I happened to be the last person standing (literally just standing; didn't get my act together for an emote, which probably wouldn't have worked - in terms of she probably would have continued to act like a jerk). So about three more shots and we are all dead.

The funny-in-a-way deal with this was that while we were in the delve, DC lost a lot of ground and we'd probably not have made it "back" without dying on the way - so she just sorta speeded up our "exit".

But part of the reason I'm all for instanced PvP is that the jerks who just can't live without attacking someone can find themselves a target-and-victim rich environment.

Let me get this straight... you and some friends went into a zone to do some collectible achievements at a level you knew you were too low but wanted to risk dying with no loss resulting, anyway... and are complaining because someone fought you in the pvp zone? You clearly knew you were too low to be on even footing if you got attacked since you mention veteran rank 14 and both it being above you and knowing that is the level cap. It's a PVP zone and enemy players are worth alliance points to kill.

While it's true battle leveling doesn't give you great stats, if four of you were just decimated even with that taken into account, that's not typical either. Four of you were not fish in a barrel in addition to all of the above, and there are a couple of dozen zones all the way up from level one that you can safely pve in with no chance of running into an enemy player you would need to fight to beyond the level cap of veteran 14.

So rolling in there ill equipped and well aware of it, you ran around and are upset that someone PVP'd in the PVP zone and not only passed up pvp, but wasn't willing to lose out on his alliance points for a fight he would win? And that Templar is the "selfish jerk" for doing so?

Honestly fascinating to me.

Mayrael

TBH small scale pvp since switch to B2P is gone, all campains are overpopulated, its almost imposible to fight someone 1v1. But I dont mind that change, because now sieges are more epic than theyve used to be and thats awesome. Finally we have real large scale pvp battles, where you have to be aware of everything. The only thing that i miss are duels

Ojustaboo

Problem with 8x8 or 4x4 is that often my smallish guild has 9, 10 or 11 members happily PvPing.

I'm usually the last to log on of an evening, with 8x8 arenas, there's a huge chance that I'm stuffed for the night as they are already battling away.

Been on EU Blacvkwater past few weeks, last night there was easily 30 to 50+ (probably double that) on screen at the same time with zero lag so it can be done.

What needs to be done is for those in Cyrodiil to all be boosted to the same level whether 49 for non vets or v14 for vets.

Too much difference between v1 and v14, even v10 and v14 imo and a level 10 non vet coming into PvP for the first time to get ganked by ex emp level 49s isn't going to keep them interested in coming back imo.

Since I ditched the vet campaign and took an alt into Blackwater, I and the rest of my guild have been having huge fun every night with huge battles and no lag. Judging by the way it was completely full on all 3 sides last night, we aren't the only ones.,

TheGOHgamer

The least they could do is implement a 20v20 or 30v30 BG and reduce LAGodil, CyroLAG? CYRODiiLAG?

TheGOHgamer

There are so many problems with large scale PVP, but the main problem that I have with the PVP system as it stands now is that you are inconsequential. You are NOT important and you don't feel as if you are actually contributing to the team in any way.

After grinding for gear and SP and creating a char with the best stats, did you help kill those enemies and take the keep? Was it your skill that finally took down the enemy? Or was it the hundred other people attacking the same guy? (¬_¬) You may have helped take the keep but does it feel like it? There are so many people around you could probably not be there and the outcome would be the same.

With large scale warfare, you are an ant and your actions are meaningless and provide no sense of accomplishment or gratification because with so many people around you can't pinpoint what it is you are doing right or wrong or if YOU are effective.

BuggeX

inMorsAeterna wrote: »

BuggeX wrote: »

They dont ingore everyone, there a much ppl outsite wich dont want to see any smal scale pvp, like Arena or bg.

Just because some people don't want Arena, doesn't mean it should ruin it for everyone else who does. Thats ignorant, and selfish thinking.

There are 2 Kinde of PVP ppl.
some like AvA, some like smal PVP.

We have allready enought game with bg/Arenas, wy has it be also teso?
Its like getting a fist in ya face, happen in Aion to. Abyss great AvA PVP. Dread BG was added and Abyss died.

Could say the same about your ignorant and selfish thinking.I want, i want, i want,

"TheGOHgamer wrote:

After grinding for gear and SP and creating a char with the best stats, did you help kill those enemies and take the keep? Was it your skill that finally took down the enemy? Or was it the hundred other people attacking the same guy? (¬_¬) You may have helped take the keep but does it feel like it? There are so many people around you could probably not be there and the outcome would be the same.

Wath does it matter? Your Ally won the fight. War isnt a 1v1, 2v2.
This is war, not a playground in the kindergarden.

alainjbrennanb16_ESO

inMorsAeterna wrote: »

I for one am patiently waiting to see a small scale pvp arena brought into this game. I would love to see a ranked arena format along the lines of 1v1, 3v3, 5v5, 8v8, etc. Bring in seasons. Bring in special titles. Give the hardcore competitive pvp players a place to go nuts. Something like this would offer unlimited replay value to the pvp community.

I'm interested in what the rest of the community and developers think about this idea. What are your concerns? What do you want to see happen? @ZOS_JessicaFolsom @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_BrianWheeler @ZOS_PaulSage

Here are a few reasons why I think we need a Ranked Arena:

1.To bring in more players. This would bolster the ranks of Cyro, PvE, and small scale Pvp alike.
2. During peak hours PvP is unplayable because of server lag. It would give us a lag free place to PvP while Cyro is laggy and broken.
3. It would help break up the monotony of PvDoor.
4. Good small scale PvP is hard to come by in Cyro because of the tendency to Zerg. That being said, Zerging is fun; but so is a 5v5.
5. There is no reason to limit your game so much. Different people like different game modes; by limiting your game modes, you're limiting your customer base.
6. Arena is a great way to test your personal skill.
7. For competitive players, being ranked on your performance through Ladders / Seasons is very rewarding.
8. Because a lot of us find it fun, and we love ESO. We don't want to have to go to another game to get what we want.

Rebuttal to people saying Battle Grounds is a bad idea.
Post also quoted below:

inMorsAeterna wrote: »

Many great points have been brought up and I would like to address them.

1. Battle grounds is boring.
a. The beauty of BG is that not everyone has to play, and the people who want to play will love it.
b. This is also good because it will leave lots of pop in Cyro for RvRvR.

2. Battle grounds will kill Cyro.
a. Having BG will bring population to the game, therefor bolstering Cyro and PvE at the same time.
b. As you can see many people do not like BG, that shows you Cyro will have a loyal player base.

3. Battle grounds caused class imbalance in Wow.
a. Wow has 275% more classes then ESO and no limits on the skills that can be used, obviously exacerbating the balancing issue. Balancing 4 classes is not nearly as difficult, and will allow for a more transparent balancing of classes.
b. This game already has made great progress on balancing classes, and seems that it is well on its way to becoming balanced.

4. We want the Devs to fix Cyro, not make a new form of PvP.
a. They made a BG for E3 in no time. All the mechanics are already in place. I doubt it would be an enormous job to implement a BG.
b. By having alternative forms of PvP they could potentially reduce server load on Cyro.

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All in all, there is absolutely no absolute reason why a BG shouldn't eventually be put into ESO.

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And the best reply in this thread goes to @Aerieth

Aerieth wrote: »

ESO doesn't have any form of competitive PvP at the moment. That is a fact.

With small scale PvP we usually mean competitive PvP. Not random "smaller skirmishes" in Cyrodiil with no objective or goal.

Competitive PvP is where your skill matters (sportsmanlike), not how many players you brought to the fight. Cyrodiil is not in any shape or form sportsmanlike PvP. I'm very PvP oriented in all games I play, even though I do enjoy end-game PvE as well.

I played WoW for almost 8 years and spent about half of it in arenas and battlegrounds and the other half in the games hardest raid dungeons. As much fun as the PvE is at the moment, Cyrodiil cannot and will not keep players like myself in the game. We need some form of competitive PvP. Arenas and Battlegrounds simply are the easiest ways to implement this kind of competitive PvP. My time in Cyrodiil has been limited in the last year because it's more of "just for fun" kind of PvP. I don't get enjoyment out of it the same way I get from Arenas and Battlegrounds, half the time there's no PvP involved. Capturing keeps and resources is more like tower defense, it's a sad excuse for PvP.

You won't see players like myself in Cyrodiil anyway, giving us actual competitive and sportsmanlike form of PvP is not skin off your backs. It's something that will give us content we actually enjoy, that'll keep us in the game and thus giving the game a broader customer base. You can keep your "massive scale PvP". I don't want to have anything to do with it.

You want us to go play another game? That's what we will do if we don't have content we enjoy, but don't come crying when the dev teams budget numbers plummet and the player base keeps getting thinner and thinner.

Give this man a cookie!!

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[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Petitions and Protests]

I agree somehow will work in small way, i don't mean to be dismissive but the main problem in cyrodiil is the trains, or camping in towers, i do not see them giving them up, because i have noticed people who are part of a train get pulled out break there necks to get back to it and will not even have a one on one battle

pppontus

BuggeX wrote: »

inMorsAeterna wrote: »

BuggeX wrote: »

They dont ingore everyone, there a much ppl outsite wich dont want to see any smal scale pvp, like Arena or bg.

Just because some people don't want Arena, doesn't mean it should ruin it for everyone else who does. Thats ignorant, and selfish thinking.

There are 2 Kinde of PVP ppl.
some like AvA, some like smal PVP.

We have allready enought game with bg/Arenas, wy has it be also teso?
Its like getting a fist in ya face, happen in Aion to. Abyss great AvA PVP. Dread BG was added and Abyss died.

Could say the same about your ignorant and selfish thinking.I want, i want, i want,

"TheGOHgamer wrote:

After grinding for gear and SP and creating a char with the best stats, did you help kill those enemies and take the keep? Was it your skill that finally took down the enemy? Or was it the hundred other people attacking the same guy? (¬_¬) You may have helped take the keep but does it feel like it? There are so many people around you could probably not be there and the outcome would be the same.

Wath does it matter? Your Ally won the fight. War isnt a 1v1, 2v2.
This is war, not a playground in the kindergarden.

Maybe PvP will die for those who can't kill 4 players with any less than 50 of their own.

Most of us just want to be able to have some nice, fair fights, personally I don't care if I win or lose - I just want a good battle. And I don't want to stand around 45 minutes to finally get even a 1v5 as opposed to a 1v100 which is Cyrodiil today. Keep fights are a plague most of the time, you either PvD the keep or 200 EP come to defend against 10.

I feel like there's just not that much PvP actually happening anymore unless you want to join the 3 faction extremely laggy 100v100v100 chokepoint. Some of us PvP to play smart and to test ourselves against other players, not to jump into a train and spam impulse.

Battlegrounds are needed or Cyrodiil will die anyway due to a disappearing playerbase. This weekend I saw plenty of guilds get pugs in to fill spots because their own members don't even want to play anymore. Others don't play at all. Sure, servers are still filled with new people who haven't yet had enough of it, but the day will come where they watch the 200 pugs put 3 holes in the same keep at 999+ ping, only to enter to hear the sound of ice comet and then CTD.. for the 8th time in a day

Robo_Hobo

That'd actually be pretty cool if it were in the Imperial City Arena. I don't PvP, but this sounds like a nice idea for those who do.

Septimus_Magna

I find the argument "small scale pvp will ruin Cyrodiil" a narrow minded statement.
The think that often is forgotten in this discussion is the likely increase of ESO players and more specifically pvpers.
More a variety in pvp modes will attract more players to ESO because its something that has been asked for since beta and there is a good reason why people are requesting this.

If ZOS is scared that small scale pvp will make Cyrodiil empty and not worth the effort then they need to improve Cyrodiil. Or limit the amount of small scale pvp that can take place. There could be tournament 3x a day with a limited number of teams, this wont take away much from Cyrodiil and still give players something new and fun to do.

If you use the argument small scale pvp will ruin Cyrodiil, then you can also make the same argument for veteran dungeons and trails. So why is nobody asking for the removal of veteran dungeons so there are more people looking to do trails or vice versa?

It sound similar to a car company saying, we wont make a sport car because we're scared that people wont buy the family car anymore. The sport car is expensive so enough people will buy the family car. The same should be applied in this case.

Athas24

Cheers for small scale pvp to be implemented! woo! I would LOVE it and I know a few of my pals feel the same. Some people just prefer that style and I don't see anything inherently "wrong" with offering choices in pvp. It also makes a ton of sense because of the war going on that smaller skirmishes would exist outside of sieges.

BuggeX

Septimus_Magna wrote: »

If you use the argument small scale pvp will ruin Cyrodiil, then you can also make the same argument for veteran dungeons and trails. So why is nobody asking for the removal of veteran dungeons so there are more people looking to do trails or vice versa?

It sound similar to a car company saying, we wont make a sport car because we're scared that people wont buy the family car anymore. The sport car is expensive so enough people will buy the family car. The same should be applied in this case.

Would you run Sanctum HM with a 12 Man Random Group were 50% dont understand English and are afraid of using TS? (im playing on EU)

But i run V12 Vet Dungeons (even COA) with Randoms, becaus its easier and faster.

kevlarto_ESO

Romo wrote: »

Let's see.

1. Pre-made team.
2. All at V14.
3. All at current max reachable CPs.
4. All FOTM.
5. All min Maxed.
6. Everyone on Vent.
7. Everyone using the team required mods.

Check good to go.

Real "competitive" ... now lets find a pug group of lowbies to stomp so we get on the all important lol leaderboard.

Ah... no to the OPs question... just NO.

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Also, has anyone seen an MMO with balanced, good team matching skills? Or isn't the majority of the time pre-made teams rolotflaffin' at pugs who got teamed against them?

Agree small scale pvp in ESO would be a waste of the dev's time, and think in ESO live they have even said it is not a direction they plan on taking the game any way. Go over with your pug and queue up in SWTOR and see how much fun you have after be rolled over and over by pre-mades. I gota think if your really wanting small scale pvp you must have your pre-made waiting in the wings.

inMorsAeterna

Romo wrote: »

Let's see.

1. Pre-made team.
2. All at V14.
3. All at current max reachable CPs.
4. All FOTM.
5. All min Maxed.
6. Everyone on Vent.
7. Everyone using the team required mods.

Check good to go.

Real "competitive" ... now lets find a pug group of lowbies to stomp so we get on the all important lol leaderboard.

Ah... no to the OPs question... just NO.

That would be the point of COMPETITIVE ladders.

Look at how starcraft 2 has expertly dealt with that issue. If your team is that good, you will eventually make it up to the Diamond ladder where you only play other teams at that level. Your team would be somewhere in a more casual division allowing both of us to have fair fights, and get the gaming experience we want.

com·pet·i·tive
kəmˈpedədiv/
adjective
1.
of, relating to, or characterized by competition.
"a competitive sport"
synonyms: ruthless, aggressive, fierce; More
having or displaying a strong desire to be more successful than others.
"she had a competitive streak"
synonyms: ambitious, zealous, keen, pushy, combative, aggressive
"a competitive player"
2.
as good as or better than others of a comparable nature.
"a car industry competitive with any in the world"

inMorsAeterna

pppontus wrote: »

I've spent the entire evening in Cyrodiil today with a group of 2-4 players just trying to find some small fights. I don't want to gank horse riders, because it's boring. So naturally then we go along resupply lines. Every now and then we get some 4-6 man groups on us and we have an epic fight for about 30 seconds before THE zerg appears at the top of the hill and we all get crit charged simultaneously by 20 people each. This happened over, over and over and over again for several hours no matter where we went.

At least on the EU server the zerg just gets bigger and bigger every day. Even the people who used to be advocates for small scale are now zergers.

Same 4 man group sieged bleakers on a map that was mostly red with 4 red keeps flagged, and they sent a 60+ man group to deal with it.

I spend my entire evenings searching campaign after campaign after campaign in every location imaginable, and I get 4-5 good fights on an average evening. Meaning fights that doesn't end in a sneaksniper interrupting my 1v5 lolling his lethal arrow+camp hunter (which shouldn't proc on humans) for 25K or a train of 60 just rolling straight over me. Or even worse, a train of my own faction rolling over one of few good fights.

All in all, Cyrodiil sucks right now. I do not know a single pvper who say they still enjoy this game, pvp guilds are literally dying out or zerging up even more. I can't blame them, everything is so out of whack that lagblob is all you can really do or you'll get rolled by another lagblob alternatively get one shot from stealth by the non-existent TTK.

The only good pvp I really get consistently now is during the early morning weekend hours when the Zerg hasn't woke up yet. Other than that, it's a blue blob, a red blob and a yellow blob and they all ruin the fun equally.

Competitive PvE in the game is dead due to zero rewards and lack of content. Competitive PvP is dead due to all fights being vigor+barrier blobbing.

If they could implement small scale objectives in cyrodiil, I'd be all for it, but as it is now every one of their efforts to break up the blobs have simply resulted in larger blobs.

THIS. @pppontus has nailed it. Zerg is the meta; there are very few good small scale fights; all the good small pvp guilds are dying right now; There is no Competitive PvP, there is only how long can I stay up for and stay in a zerg until i get emp; and last but not least Zerg is the meta.

Someone mentioned that they feel like an Ant in an army, like they make no difference to the end result as long as they stay on crown. Thats how all of us feel, even the best of us feel like we arent doing anything exceptionally beneficial. Thats why we want a small scale competitive bg/arena so we have somewhere to actually be challenged and have to think on our feet and be creative to achieve our victories.

newtinmpls

Told my story once, and if you really want to read it (which I doubt) it's up there.

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

Let me get this straight... you and some friends went into a zone to do some collectible achievements

Nope.

Me and a few friends went into a vet zone because the only character mix that was at all workable was the highest lowbies (41 & 41) and their lowest vets (v1 & v2). We wanted to play 'together' (the whole MMORPG existing for the 'play with friends' thing). And one thing we (the four characters) could have in common as a workable goal was to look for a few skyshards.

I really don't care about "acheivements" I'm gaming to play around and have fun.

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

While it's true battle leveling doesn't give you great stats, if four of you were just decimated even with that taken into account, that's not typical either.

For a certain type of v14 player it is. I've had situations happen where we'll meet a group of v14s in similar situations, and the bow and/or salute and/or kneel emotes will be exhanged between a few PCs and one will attack anyway, then we get the apology game-mails about so and so not listening to "they are NOT here to fight" from their teammates.

I have no idea just how much XP anyone would be giving up by not attacking us.

I also would really like a "white flag" option where one side can surrender and the other side can get XP equivalent to killing for "capture" or some such option.

If someone "has to" attack me because they "are in a PvP zone" I can only suspect they are just as much of a sparkling personality IRL.

Valymer

Hilarious that the majority of people against small-scale PvP do not even understand how competitive PvP systems work.

If you are going to campaign against something, it might be worthwhile to do some research so you can actually comprehend what it is you are arguing against.

jeremybrittain22b14_ESO

I, for one, would LOVE small scale PvP (5v5. 10v10, 20v20). Zergfest can be fun sometimes, but I would prefer some small scale the majority of the time. I dont see why we couldnt have both.

Attorneyatlawl

inMorsAeterna wrote: »

Someone mentioned that they feel like an Ant in an army, like they make no difference to the end result as long as they stay on crown. Thats how all of us feel, even the best of us feel like we arent doing anything exceptionally beneficial. Thats why we want a small scale competitive bg/arena so we have somewhere to actually be challenged and have to think on our feet and be creative to achieve our victories.

No, not everyone feels that way at all. If you don't do anything special, perhaps that's why you feel that you are just one amongst the masses still? Zerging up and following the crown is the "Easy" way of playing but not the most rewarding from both in-game rewards (alliance points) or a fun perspective, unless you need the somewhat higher safety from being in such high numbers, in which case... back to the start of this post .

Septimus_Magna

BuggeX wrote: »

Septimus_Magna wrote: »

If you use the argument small scale pvp will ruin Cyrodiil, then you can also make the same argument for veteran dungeons and trails. So why is nobody asking for the removal of veteran dungeons so there are more people looking to do trails or vice versa?

It sound similar to a car company saying, we wont make a sport car because we're scared that people wont buy the family car anymore. The sport car is expensive so enough people will buy the family car. The same should be applied in this case.

Would you run Sanctum HM with a 12 Man Random Group were 50% dont understand English and are afraid of using TS? (im playing on EU)

But i run V12 Vet Dungeons (even COA) with Randoms, becaus its easier and faster.

I dont even run AA/Hel Ra normal mode with randoms, its just too frustrating (playing on EU as well). Veteran dungeons can be completed with most random groups because they're incredibly easy, if they were hard you wouldnt do them with ramdom groups.

The groups who dominate pvp are usually well coordinated, this will most likely be the same for small scale pvp. This will disencourage random groups (to some extend) from doing small scale pvp, same as most random groups are disencouraged to do trails because they're too difficult for an uncoordinated group.

I still havent read a valid argument to not add small scale pvp, hopefully the release of Imperial City will bring more small scale pvp to ESO.

Ehcko

I give many props to the OP for laying out a well made, clean, and valid argument for those who are on the pro small scale PvP side. I agree we need some more PvP options in general for this game, let alone small scale PvP. A little thing on a personal level I think ZoS would like to know, especially if they plan on making this game more financially successful in the future. But I have been trying desperately to get my close friend to get back into the game after he left awhile back, and even after the game went B2P he still prefers to play GW2 instead just because of its PvP systems... He has told me, that ESO isn't a bad game and he did enjoy it for the most part while he was here, but he has also told me that if ESO adds a small scale PvP system, then he will return to the game. And I'm sure there are many others like him who feel the same way.

Loves_guars

kevlarto_ESO wrote: »

Go over with your pug and queue up in SWTOR and see how much fun you have after be rolled over and over by pre-mades. I gota think if your really wanting small scale pvp you must have your pre-made waiting in the wings.

I get where you're coming from, there should be separate modes for groups and solo players. I queue solo in swtor most of the time and I admit this is the main problem there. Still more fun than riding simulator though. :-P

Attorneyatlawl

cecibergesnrb18_ESO wrote: »

kevlarto_ESO wrote: »

Go over with your pug and queue up in SWTOR and see how much fun you have after be rolled over and over by pre-mades. I gota think if your really wanting small scale pvp you must have your pre-made waiting in the wings.

I get where you're coming from, there should be separate modes for groups and solo players. I queue solo in swtor most of the time and I admit this is the main problem there. Still more fun than riding simulator though. :-P

Riding Simulator? Is that a new version of Train Simulator? I spend probably 5% of my time in Cyrodiil on horse and that's not really a whole lot of travel .

TheGOHgamer

So many names for this game.

HORSE RIDING SIMULATOR
KEEP CAMPING SIMULATOR
LFG SIMULATOR
GLITCH SIMULATOR

Just to name a few..

c0rp

Probably time for small scale PVP...ZoS has had over a year to make cyrodiil work performance wise, and is unable to do so. You are kidding yourself if you think you are gonna wake up tomorrow and cyrodiil server performance is fixed.