ESO Needs Small Scale PvP.

Attorneyatlawl

sarttsarttsarttub17_ESO wrote: »

Then you would destroy Cyrodiil pvp.

This. People go for easy rewards always (queue from anywhere while farming and being guaranteed participation ribbons is the definition of that. Any game that doesn't give welfare rewards and awards based on your team more than your own play has been flooded with derision) and it additionally even ideally would segment the PVP playerbase too much. Cyrodiil already offers heaps of small scale, large scale, solo or duo scale, etc activity just by walking away from the zergs. And unless you try to pack onto the pop locked campaigns like Thornblade, server latency is rarely an issue. I like instanced pvp a little myself, but this isn't the game for it.

I am however all in favor of more leader board stats including time in Cyrodiil per campaign and lifetime, deaths, points earned per hour average and best, as well as past leader board history. This would give much needed qualifiers to judge off of, instead of raw point totals alone, plus extra stats on leader boards help make them more fun .

I still would like to see a general or lieutenant system where the top 20 players of a faction get diminished emperor buffs in Cyrodiil. At the moment there's either #1 and flipping the keeps, or nothing. This also would help spread the impact of having a great emp or a horrid emp out more while encouraging jockeying for high spots even if you won't quite make emp.

Hexi

No. Battleground PvP is the most boring, repetitive form of PvP you can have. It's nothing but a predictable GRIND where the battle is decided 30 seconds into the fight. Go play mobas or some other MMOs.

Valymer

Hexi wrote: »

No. Battleground PvP is the most boring, repetitive form of PvP you can have. It's nothing but a predictable GRIND where the battle is decided 30 seconds into the fight. Go play mobas or some other MMOs.

Lol, and Cyrodiil isn't?

Tankqull

any rated system is garbage - as 98+% of the playerbase are not as good as they think and get stomped by the last <2%.
than they demand nerfes and buffs to pamper their egos as the 2% only won because of abusing overpowered classes/skills and after a few months they realise the problem is not the opponents but them... they list fewer and fewer leading to compleatly dead rated system.
unrated arenas are faceing the same situation.

do it the old school DAoC way the number of players actually doing smallscale pvp is extremly small and easy to coordinate use the given options to create your own small scale PvP and every thing is fine.

Hexi

Valymer wrote: »

Hexi wrote: »

No. Battleground PvP is the most boring, repetitive form of PvP you can have. It's nothing but a predictable GRIND where the battle is decided 30 seconds into the fight. Go play mobas or some other MMOs.

Lol, and Cyrodiil isn't?

Show me a video where a defended keep with roughly equal numbers is taken in 30 seconds.

You can't, and never will. Now go troll some other thread.

wOOOOt_of_SD

Cyrodiil has both zerg, grp vs grp and solo PVP.
All people have to do is learn how Cyrodiill Works.

I don't want to see ZOS spending any dev time on other PVP systems, until they fix the lag issues in Cyrodiil.

Valymer

Hexi wrote: »

Valymer wrote: »

Hexi wrote: »

No. Battleground PvP is the most boring, repetitive form of PvP you can have. It's nothing but a predictable GRIND where the battle is decided 30 seconds into the fight. Go play mobas or some other MMOs.

Lol, and Cyrodiil isn't?

Show me a video where a defended keep with roughly equal numbers is taken in 30 seconds.

You can't, and never will. Now go troll some other thread.

I was responding to:

Hexi wrote: »

No. Battleground PvP is the most boring, repetitive form of PvP you can have. It's nothing but a predictable GRIND

wrlifeboil

Tankqull wrote: »

any rated system is garbage - as 98+% of the playerbase are not as good as they think and get stomped by the last <2%.
than they demand nerfes and buffs to pamper their egos as the 2% only won because of abusing overpowered classes/skills and after a few months they realise the problem is not the opponents but them... they list fewer and fewer leading to compleatly dead rated system.
unrated arenas are faceing the same situation.

do it the old school DAoC way the number of players actually doing smallscale pvp is extremly small and easy to coordinate use the given options to create your own small scale PvP and every thing is fine.

Too bad the beta forums don't exist. The DAoC crowd was enthusiastic about Cyrodiil being the centerpiece of ESO. Only reinforces that old school is called old school for a reason.

There is some truth in what you wrote about people thinking they are better than they might be but there is usually a progression. Example in another game. Usually newbies don't like to do small 10v10 bgs because they get singled out and taken down easily. Smarter ones start with bigger bgs like 40v40 where they can stay with the group. As they get better and more confident, they do the smaller BGs until they finally feel comfortable doing the 10v10s. There is no 'structuring' like that in Cyrodiil where you get that feeling of progression.

That said, I didn't expect bgs or arenas in ESO back then and still don't expect them in ESO in the near future. It would have been a nice option but it's not their forte.

Valymer

wOOOOt_of_SD wrote: »

Cyrodiil has both zerg, grp vs grp and solo PVP.
All people have to do is learn how Cyrodiill Works.

I don't want to see ZOS spending any dev time on other PVP systems, until they fix the lag issues in Cyrodiil.

A year isn't enough time? At what point will you give up hope?

Jitterbug

sarttsarttsarttub17_ESO wrote: »

Then you would destroy Cyrodiil pvp.

You mean beyond the destroyed state it's already in?

wOOOOt_of_SD

Valymer wrote: »

wOOOOt_of_SD wrote: »

Cyrodiil has both zerg, grp vs grp and solo PVP.
All people have to do is learn how Cyrodiill Works.

I don't want to see ZOS spending any dev time on other PVP systems, until they fix the lag issues in Cyrodiil.

A year isn't enough time? At what point will you give up hope?

Solution is not something new.
The solution is that they get a bigger budget to fix cyrodiil.
And maybe more focus on that 1 problem.
Its not like they spent a year on it - they spent a year goofing around on 1000 other Things too.

Jitterbug

Alphashado wrote: »

I would rather see small scale objective based, timed battlegrounds. 10 v 10 v 10.

Yes, exactly this - I'd prolly leave my wife and quit my job for this :P

technohic

Valymer wrote: »

wOOOOt_of_SD wrote: »

Cyrodiil has both zerg, grp vs grp and solo PVP.
All people have to do is learn how Cyrodiill Works.

I don't want to see ZOS spending any dev time on other PVP systems, until they fix the lag issues in Cyrodiil.

A year isn't enough time? At what point will you give up hope?

When they close the game. Cyrodiil is a centerpiece of this game that sets it apart from others. Give up on that, and the game is as good as dead.

Keepercraft

Imperial City?

Valymer

technohic wrote: »

Valymer wrote: »

wOOOOt_of_SD wrote: »

Cyrodiil has both zerg, grp vs grp and solo PVP.
All people have to do is learn how Cyrodiill Works.

I don't want to see ZOS spending any dev time on other PVP systems, until they fix the lag issues in Cyrodiil.

A year isn't enough time? At what point will you give up hope?

When they close the game. Cyrodiil is a centerpiece of this game that sets it apart from others. Give up on that, and the game is as good as dead.

There's a relatively large portion of this game that doesn't PvP at all, though...

Sir_Highfield

I put in a post earlier last year (coliseums), suggesting there should be coliseums in each zone, where players could buy a ticket to watch or pay to enter 1v1 pvp or 4v4 etc.. winner takes the money. could have a ticket vendor in each zone also. the reason for zones is so it could be level specific.

reften

Go to Bruma with 2 or 3 on a blue dominated server.

Tankqull

wrlifeboil wrote: »

Tankqull wrote: »

any rated system is garbage - as 98+% of the playerbase are not as good as they think and get stomped by the last <2%.
than they demand nerfes and buffs to pamper their egos as the 2% only won because of abusing overpowered classes/skills and after a few months they realise the problem is not the opponents but them... they list fewer and fewer leading to compleatly dead rated system.
unrated arenas are faceing the same situation.

do it the old school DAoC way the number of players actually doing smallscale pvp is extremly small and easy to coordinate use the given options to create your own small scale PvP and every thing is fine.

Too bad the beta forums don't exist. The DAoC crowd was enthusiastic about Cyrodiil being the centerpiece of ESO. Only reinforces that old school is called old school for a reason.

There is some truth in what you wrote about people thinking they are better than they might be but there is usually a progression. Example in another game. Usually newbies don't like to do small 10v10 bgs because they get singled out and taken down easily. Smarter ones start with bigger bgs like 40v40 where they can stay with the group. As they get better and more confident, they do the smaller BGs until they finally feel comfortable doing the 10v10s. There is no 'structuring' like that in Cyrodiil where you get that feeling of progression.

That said, I didn't expect bgs or arenas in ESO back then and still don't expect them in ESO in the near future. It would have been a nice option but it's not their forte.

well my expirience is otherwise. you are either one of the top % or you stop doing rateds regardless of the way you get there. thats the way its has been in all games i participated in that offered some kind of rated arena. the only difference is the time frame for rateds to erode the bigger the innitial playerbase is the longer the fun of rateds last. with seeing the same people in Cyrodiil every day regardless of the campaign i´m in i would say the train for worthwhile rateds allready has left the station a few months ago.

technohic

Valymer wrote: »

technohic wrote: »

Valymer wrote: »

wOOOOt_of_SD wrote: »

Cyrodiil has both zerg, grp vs grp and solo PVP.
All people have to do is learn how Cyrodiill Works.

I don't want to see ZOS spending any dev time on other PVP systems, until they fix the lag issues in Cyrodiil.

A year isn't enough time? At what point will you give up hope?

When they close the game. Cyrodiil is a centerpiece of this game that sets it apart from others. Give up on that, and the game is as good as dead.

There's a relatively large portion of this game that doesn't PvP at all, though...

That's the same with every game and that is always the argument. As if games can afford to lose more players. All it does is create a snowball effect.

Tankqull

Valymer wrote: »

wOOOOt_of_SD wrote: »

Cyrodiil has both zerg, grp vs grp and solo PVP.
All people have to do is learn how Cyrodiill Works.

I don't want to see ZOS spending any dev time on other PVP systems, until they fix the lag issues in Cyrodiil.

A year isn't enough time? At what point will you give up hope?

i hardly doubt any of the coders capable of handling the netcode have been doing anything else than working on the console transition over the last year ...

vyndral13preub18_ESO

Heck i would be happy if they just took one of the exsisting keeps put some capture the flag type markers in it and let 2 teams of 8-10 go to town. You could make the game the first to 50. Points for taking, holding, flipping the flags. Done and done! gogogogo!

Valymer

Tankqull wrote: »

Valymer wrote: »

wOOOOt_of_SD wrote: »

Cyrodiil has both zerg, grp vs grp and solo PVP.
All people have to do is learn how Cyrodiill Works.

I don't want to see ZOS spending any dev time on other PVP systems, until they fix the lag issues in Cyrodiil.

A year isn't enough time? At what point will you give up hope?

i hardly doubt any of the coders capable of handling the netcode have been doing anything else than working on the console transition over the last year ...

I'm sure that some have been working on fixing the issues, but yeah I agree a lot of resources were probably diverted to console preparation. Not sure if the guys working on console are the same team as the PC guys though

Valymer

technohic wrote: »

Valymer wrote: »

technohic wrote: »

Valymer wrote: »

wOOOOt_of_SD wrote: »

Cyrodiil has both zerg, grp vs grp and solo PVP.
All people have to do is learn how Cyrodiill Works.

I don't want to see ZOS spending any dev time on other PVP systems, until they fix the lag issues in Cyrodiil.

A year isn't enough time? At what point will you give up hope?

When they close the game. Cyrodiil is a centerpiece of this game that sets it apart from others. Give up on that, and the game is as good as dead.

There's a relatively large portion of this game that doesn't PvP at all, though...

That's the same with every game and that is always the argument. As if games can afford to lose more players. All it does is create a snowball effect.

I was responding mostly to your statement that Cyrodiil is the "centerpiece of this game."

While ZOS marketing led us to believe that to be true, time has shown Cyrodiil to be sorely lacking on the tech side. I'd wager the total number of hardcore PvP players that have already bailed due to lag and other technical issues is staggeringly large in proportion to the current total playerbase.

Adding small-scale PvP venues might very well lure some of these players back.

reften

or, go hang out in a dungeon near a farrugut, warden, bloodmayne, etc with a couple buddies.

There is small scale pvp if you just use your noggin a little.

Valymer

oren74 wrote: »

or, go hang out in a dungeon near a farrugut, warden, bloodmayne, etc with a couple buddies.

There is small scale pvp if you just use your noggin a little.

I do that all the time. But mostly you will encounter PvErs trying to get achievements or skyshards that way.

Ganking them is fun AP, and sometimes we get ganked too, but that's not going to solve Cyrodiil's technical issues.

suroh66

Small scale pvp would be great, it could be some thing as simple as the following

1. opposing alliance has invaded this area, you need to defend it from them ( A battle ground where you need to capture a flag or set amount of resources etc ... )

2. Opposing alliance has taken over a town, you need to kill them all and re-take it ( a tdm where each team must achieve a set amount of kills to win the match)

Vizier

Small group PvP is here and it is IN Cyrodiil. Suggestion: Don't run with the Zerg. Don't engage in Siege warfare. Assume other objectives...shrug.


But...If your aim is max AP for time spent. Less traveling around and less guesswork. Then by all means continue to blob.

This notion that the "Arena" is the only place for small group pvp is pretty funny. It's kind of like sniping someone riding naked and bareback along a prime corridor in Cyroddil and I get a message. "Duel me 1v1 ?" Lawls.

Listen. An arena would be great and if it would thin Cyro of PvP snobbery I'm all for it. Besides. Variety would be a good thing IMO. Some kind of Arena system in Imperial City would be a welcomed addition. No buffs of any kind should be associated with the arena gladiators or it's victors.

The_Drexill

ZoS doesn't want small scale. Superbuffing resource guards proves this.

Valymer

The_Drexill wrote: »

ZoS doesn't want small scale. Superbuffing resource guards proves this.

That just proves that they don't want DKs soloing keeps anymore.

RazzPitazz

Years after WoW integrated small scale PvP, they admitted it was the #1 mistake they ever made. Dealing with balance issues on top of elitists was mind-numbing and nigh impossible.

That being said, I think "mid-scale" pvp might be a better way to go. We already know ZoS is attempting to get people to spread out due to server "stability", rather than to prevent zerging. I would say perhaps allowing mid-sized 12-24 man groups to pvp, either two or three factions at once. Call them bar fights or whatever. Too big for elitist builds to matter too much or balance issues to be reduced to mere fractions of a number, too small for the server to bottom out (hopefully).

Agree? Disagree? Is it just a terrible idea?